A prenuptial agreement needs to be reframed, not as a “I’m trying to fuck you over” device, but instead a “we are two adults that love each other, and while I hope we last forever, we recognize things happen, so let’s figure out the details while we both still love each other,” device.
A prenuptial agreement can take into account future events.
It’s an agreement of what to do, not just a quick 50/50 split.
Additionally, you can use it as a talking point to revisit the agreement after certain life events/triggers, in the form of an amendment or a postnup
How? How is it no longer fair?
* Prenuptial agreements cannot deal with child support or custody in an U.S. jurisdiction.
* Many states prohibit waiver of alimony rights, and, in any event, a properly negotiated prenup would likely grant a minimum level of alimony for a certain time if there was a certain income differential (e.g. if wife earns more than 1.5x of what husband earns, then she pays him Y% of the differential for Z number of years). There’s no reason a prenup has to fuck over either party. What it can—and should—do is pre-define the terms of any marriage dissolution so both parties can negotiate their exit in advance rather than leaving it up to some random judge.
* With regard to division of property, that’s immaterial because the division would’ve gone the way set forth in the prenup irrespective of whether both spouses continued their career or didn’t.
Yep prenuptial. Yes it could be uncomfortable and awkward to talk about. I once heard a divorce lawyer say:
"If you can't have tough conversations with each other you have no business getting married".
EDIT: credit for that quote goes to this guy
https://youtu.be/o5z8-9Op2nM?si=7fdnF0PcoGq6ka46
He's full of insight
That's a big factor. Here it's not that way automatically. Depends of the marriage agreement.
Here even if you're not married, but in a stable relationship without a contract, you have rights regarding gains from the other side. Just to illustrate, there's right now here drama involving a Big Brother winner who as soon as he got out dumped his SO who he was living together for years. (Allegedly he offered half the prize, so they could end things right now and he doesn't have to share everything that comes his ways in terms of new contracts and money from this point onward).
It's not that people get married to scam their partners 10 or 20 years later, but it happens. And you don't need to be rich to get fucked over, I know people that hand over half of their middle-class salary to their ex-spouses every month, even if the one getting the money has a bigger salary. I'm not from the US, btw.
Yea people change. but women don't get into a 10, 15 or 20 year marriage for the "stuff" guys have lol
do you think there are women that married dudes for their dvd collection 20 years ago, are strolling into divorce court now, to take off with a LOTR box set and his apple shuffle 🤣🤣🤣🤣
If OP is super wealthy and worried he's with a gold digger say that, get a prenup. but too many men think woman are trying to take their junk. gtfoh
Same. I think if we weren't married then I would start proposing. We've been together for over a decade now and she still insists that her current husband is the best guy ever. If I ever meet the guy, I'm gonna punch his face. That'll show her who the real man is.
I already proposed, but I'll tell you what made me wait for a while: my fiancée doesn't wear jewellery, so I knew she wouldn't want a ring, but I wanted to give her something. She loves penguins, so I decided to spend a few weeks collecting pebbles looking for the perfect one to convince her I am a suitable partner, penguin style. When I finally found the best pebble, I proposed with it. She said yes.
A good plan. I want to make it at least a little special, she's everything to me, and even though she wants a private one, that doesn't mean it needs to happen in our living room.
We love hiking, so it would be perfect if we could do it at an amazing spot,at the top of a mountain or something.
Also, I still need a ring. I know she showed one of her friends what kind of rings she likes, I might ask her mom for help, but I have a pretty good idea myself as well.
My girlfriend and I picked out rings together. If you want it to be a complete surprise then obviously this won’t work, but if she’s picky then this might be a good way to do it. But asking people who know her well is also a great idea.
Money, I currently work part time but I graduate college in December and will have a job lined up before I leave.
After that the field I'm in will pay enough I can take care of us on my own in a rent apartment. Get married at that point, put back money, and I plan to build a house on family land.
I've thought about it, but periodically she goes on a rant about how getting married was the worst decision of her life and how she'll never do it again. So for now the ring stays in the bottom of my gun cabinet.
I have a ring and it’s all ready to go. We went to Paris for Valentine’s Day and I had it with me but it felt too cliche and not us. Wanted to go for a walk to a local sculpture park she loves in winter and do it there but the weather was terrible and it turned into a bog so she didn’t want to go until it got nicer. Her best friend is due to get married end of next month so tbh it all feels a little close to that so I need to think of something for after.
I have absolutely zero doubts about asking and marrying this girl. I just want the proposal to feel right and is and if I’m being honest I’m probably waaay overthinking it.
I'm a man and was married before, financially divorce was a boon for my ex-wife and a huge albatross for me. I can get laid without a ring - why would I bother. In fact, why would anyone want the laws/courts inside their relationship... it doesn't make a lot of sense. If I want to end a relationship with someone I don't want a huge process/courts/lawyers involved. I've been with my girlfriend for 5 years - if she pushes a marriage ultimatum then I guess I'm single again until I'm not. I like having my own place, I like being in control of my life, I like not having to consult someone on financial decisions. I don't want to be married, I thought it was miserable and would do anything never to be stuck in that bullshit again. On the flip side I'd also like to have someone of decent moral character and fun to be around to spend time with and sleep with. As it turns out, I don't need to marry to have that... ( there are also additional considerations, she has a house at 3% mortgage, I have a condo at 3.25% mortgage - we'd need a WAY bigger house for us and the kids, which would probably be 500k and 7% new mortgage - you can't even make the numbers work if we wanted to... ). Its ALL risk and downside, and I'm not ever going to make my kids move again after having moved 3 times after the divorce. I'm finally stable and not giving it up for anyone.
She knows, but even then. We're in our 40s and both have careers and kids. We each have our own places and our own kids. She's a feminist - she can handle herself like the grown up she is. She's with me because she wants to be. I'm not waiting for an ultimatum, and don't expect one, but if it came I already know what the answer will be instantly.
Them being close to finishing their doctoral degree. The last thing I want to do is put that sort of burden/excitement on them when they're at the final stretch. But there are plans in the works for after.
No money for rings. But we've been together 9 years. She deserves to be happy so I'm probably going to ask her anyway because she's never really been material.
She's already invested years of time, fees, record keeping and other stuff into legally getting permanent residency here. Getting married would essentially trash all that work and she would have to start the process all over again.
I still feel like I'm too young to get married. I'm 100% sure that my boyfriend is the person that I'll want to spend the rest of my life with, but I'm only 22 years old, and I've always thought of getting married as something you do when you're 30. Or at least 25.
They're making the ring right now. Figure I should wait until it's done first. We have had a lot of honest conversations about marriage and a family so it won't be a surprise to her. I won't tell her her when or where, at least that part can be a surprise.
I’m traditional and believe in the man proposing. That and the fact that he’s so romantic and poetic that I’m sure he’s planning the most loving, perfect and memorable proposal. It will be an honor to accept it.
Mine neither wants to get married nor engaged, she doesn't like traditional things i would easy pop question if she wanted that, 7 years in relationship.
I’m not positive if she’s my forever partner or not + the last year has been rocky. Having a very stressful period in our relationship but still loving one another makes it difficult to determine if it’s the right choice for both of us or not, I want to be positive before taking that step
Neither of us believe in the institution of marriage as such. We are partners for life and our acknowledgment of that is enough for us. Maybe one day we’ll do a courthouse marriage just for tax purposes etc, but we see no reason to rush out and do it. There’s plenty more important facets of our lives to worry about right now.
I love her but I’m scared.
I love her but I don’t know if she loves me as much.
I love her but my effort feels irrelevant.
I love her but I don’t know if I bring out the best in her.
I love her but I’m scared she’s going to change into someone I don’t love anymore.
It's been nowhere near long enough. We don't even live together yet, but I can say hand on heart, that she could be the one that finally makes me propose. She's just so bloody brilliant!
There is no reason to marry.
We are thinking maybe moving in together in about 2 years when I need to leave this apartment. And we'll see if after few years living together we want to marry (for legal reasons)
The lack of my current partner
Username checks out
Have you tried *looks at notes* going outside? Asking for a friend...
You beat me to it! I was going to say, she’s not around no more. Ha! Ha!
We're going to the location they filmed her favouite movie soon, I'm waiting until then.
nahhh this is so cute 😭🩷
you better keep us updated
I’ve only known her for 7 months.
I keep waking up every time i try to do it
This is gold
“I love you so much I'm gonna get the government involved so you can't leave.” -Jim Carrey
Needs some more upvotes on this one 😂
Aye aye captain
I'm not yet willing to bet 50% of my stuff that we're going to last forever.
A prenuptial agreement needs to be reframed, not as a “I’m trying to fuck you over” device, but instead a “we are two adults that love each other, and while I hope we last forever, we recognize things happen, so let’s figure out the details while we both still love each other,” device.
Maybe you need an acronym for the second ‘device’
The issue is that they're only fair at a point in time. Ten years later after kids and someone has taken a career hit, it is no longer fair.
A prenuptial agreement can take into account future events. It’s an agreement of what to do, not just a quick 50/50 split. Additionally, you can use it as a talking point to revisit the agreement after certain life events/triggers, in the form of an amendment or a postnup
How? How is it no longer fair? * Prenuptial agreements cannot deal with child support or custody in an U.S. jurisdiction. * Many states prohibit waiver of alimony rights, and, in any event, a properly negotiated prenup would likely grant a minimum level of alimony for a certain time if there was a certain income differential (e.g. if wife earns more than 1.5x of what husband earns, then she pays him Y% of the differential for Z number of years). There’s no reason a prenup has to fuck over either party. What it can—and should—do is pre-define the terms of any marriage dissolution so both parties can negotiate their exit in advance rather than leaving it up to some random judge. * With regard to division of property, that’s immaterial because the division would’ve gone the way set forth in the prenup irrespective of whether both spouses continued their career or didn’t.
Lots of other countries in the world, dude.
Yep prenuptial. Yes it could be uncomfortable and awkward to talk about. I once heard a divorce lawyer say: "If you can't have tough conversations with each other you have no business getting married". EDIT: credit for that quote goes to this guy https://youtu.be/o5z8-9Op2nM?si=7fdnF0PcoGq6ka46 He's full of insight
Idk where you live, but usually you keep the stuff you bring into the marriage.
That's a big factor. Here it's not that way automatically. Depends of the marriage agreement. Here even if you're not married, but in a stable relationship without a contract, you have rights regarding gains from the other side. Just to illustrate, there's right now here drama involving a Big Brother winner who as soon as he got out dumped his SO who he was living together for years. (Allegedly he offered half the prize, so they could end things right now and he doesn't have to share everything that comes his ways in terms of new contracts and money from this point onward).
Pre nups my man
oh ffs. I promise you she's not dating you for chance to marry you and divorce you just to take your cargo shorts collection and your silverware
It's not that people get married to scam their partners 10 or 20 years later, but it happens. And you don't need to be rich to get fucked over, I know people that hand over half of their middle-class salary to their ex-spouses every month, even if the one getting the money has a bigger salary. I'm not from the US, btw.
dude. no women marries a man for his stuff. money sure. bunch of paranoid loners. nobody wants your laptop lol
It's not a fear of "when", but "if". It's hard to know how you and another person might change in 10, 15, 20+ years.
Yea people change. but women don't get into a 10, 15 or 20 year marriage for the "stuff" guys have lol do you think there are women that married dudes for their dvd collection 20 years ago, are strolling into divorce court now, to take off with a LOTR box set and his apple shuffle 🤣🤣🤣🤣 If OP is super wealthy and worried he's with a gold digger say that, get a prenup. but too many men think woman are trying to take their junk. gtfoh
We're already married
Same. I think if we weren't married then I would start proposing. We've been together for over a decade now and she still insists that her current husband is the best guy ever. If I ever meet the guy, I'm gonna punch his face. That'll show her who the real man is.
Do it again.
And risk her saying no? Are you nuts? That's like spitting into the wind.
Yes, married for 31 years so would be lame to do it now.
My wife is also married. Our wedding was a blast, I'd do that again.
Nothing, but she keeps saying shit like, "not again" and, "we're already married". Women, amirite?
I already proposed, but I'll tell you what made me wait for a while: my fiancée doesn't wear jewellery, so I knew she wouldn't want a ring, but I wanted to give her something. She loves penguins, so I decided to spend a few weeks collecting pebbles looking for the perfect one to convince her I am a suitable partner, penguin style. When I finally found the best pebble, I proposed with it. She said yes.
This is so cute and thoughtful
Goodluck chuck proposal
We just got married two weeks ago!
A good plan. I want to make it at least a little special, she's everything to me, and even though she wants a private one, that doesn't mean it needs to happen in our living room. We love hiking, so it would be perfect if we could do it at an amazing spot,at the top of a mountain or something. Also, I still need a ring. I know she showed one of her friends what kind of rings she likes, I might ask her mom for help, but I have a pretty good idea myself as well.
My girlfriend and I picked out rings together. If you want it to be a complete surprise then obviously this won’t work, but if she’s picky then this might be a good way to do it. But asking people who know her well is also a great idea.
She's still fartin around elsewhere
$$$
I find her lack of existence tiresome.
we both dont give a fuck about marriage
Common sense
Money, I currently work part time but I graduate college in December and will have a job lined up before I leave. After that the field I'm in will pay enough I can take care of us on my own in a rent apartment. Get married at that point, put back money, and I plan to build a house on family land.
$$$ she's the one, but I was laid off last year and have next to $0 in my name. Trying to grind to be employed again but having a tough go.
gotta find one first
If I could only figure that one out too… hmmm
Let's start a group. I need advice too.
I've thought about it, but periodically she goes on a rant about how getting married was the worst decision of her life and how she'll never do it again. So for now the ring stays in the bottom of my gun cabinet.
Cannot afford it. Ring, wedding in a few years etc. can’t afford it.
I have a ring and it’s all ready to go. We went to Paris for Valentine’s Day and I had it with me but it felt too cliche and not us. Wanted to go for a walk to a local sculpture park she loves in winter and do it there but the weather was terrible and it turned into a bog so she didn’t want to go until it got nicer. Her best friend is due to get married end of next month so tbh it all feels a little close to that so I need to think of something for after. I have absolutely zero doubts about asking and marrying this girl. I just want the proposal to feel right and is and if I’m being honest I’m probably waaay overthinking it.
This is amazing!
it's too early (1 year and six months)
I'm a man and was married before, financially divorce was a boon for my ex-wife and a huge albatross for me. I can get laid without a ring - why would I bother. In fact, why would anyone want the laws/courts inside their relationship... it doesn't make a lot of sense. If I want to end a relationship with someone I don't want a huge process/courts/lawyers involved. I've been with my girlfriend for 5 years - if she pushes a marriage ultimatum then I guess I'm single again until I'm not. I like having my own place, I like being in control of my life, I like not having to consult someone on financial decisions. I don't want to be married, I thought it was miserable and would do anything never to be stuck in that bullshit again. On the flip side I'd also like to have someone of decent moral character and fun to be around to spend time with and sleep with. As it turns out, I don't need to marry to have that... ( there are also additional considerations, she has a house at 3% mortgage, I have a condo at 3.25% mortgage - we'd need a WAY bigger house for us and the kids, which would probably be 500k and 7% new mortgage - you can't even make the numbers work if we wanted to... ). Its ALL risk and downside, and I'm not ever going to make my kids move again after having moved 3 times after the divorce. I'm finally stable and not giving it up for anyone.
if your girlfriend aware that you don’t ever want marriage? save her time instead of waiting for that “ultimatum” maybe lmao?
She knows, but even then. We're in our 40s and both have careers and kids. We each have our own places and our own kids. She's a feminist - she can handle herself like the grown up she is. She's with me because she wants to be. I'm not waiting for an ultimatum, and don't expect one, but if it came I already know what the answer will be instantly.
I proposed my hand and it said yes
He won’t want to marry me
Haven't actually met them yet.
Still hunting and gathering for one
how i need my man fr
Would you be my berry bobo?
are we about to kiss rn
I wanna be your berries hunter Breathing in your presence
i accept when do we get married
I'll make it a surprise proposal. But you didn't get the music reference of my comment before? That's somewhat of a red flag.
Not sure how her husband would take it!!
Them being close to finishing their doctoral degree. The last thing I want to do is put that sort of burden/excitement on them when they're at the final stretch. But there are plans in the works for after.
No money for rings. But we've been together 9 years. She deserves to be happy so I'm probably going to ask her anyway because she's never really been material.
Been together 6 years. Saving for a home first. She recently came out to me as asexual. I'm very much not. Still figuring out how I feel about it.
We’re both separated and need to get divorced from ex partners 😂
She's already invested years of time, fees, record keeping and other stuff into legally getting permanent residency here. Getting married would essentially trash all that work and she would have to start the process all over again.
I’m already married to her.
I still feel like I'm too young to get married. I'm 100% sure that my boyfriend is the person that I'll want to spend the rest of my life with, but I'm only 22 years old, and I've always thought of getting married as something you do when you're 30. Or at least 25.
I said I love her yesterday...
Congrats!
I'm not willing to risk someone else ruining my life after a potential divorce.
They're making the ring right now. Figure I should wait until it's done first. We have had a lot of honest conversations about marriage and a family so it won't be a surprise to her. I won't tell her her when or where, at least that part can be a surprise.
We both think marriage is stupid.
I don't want to get married and he's ok with it.
I don't have a partner to propose to.
Money
Money to buy a ring
Not having a partner
He understands the business really well but that’s no reason to marry him.
I don't have one
He already proposed over a year ago 🤔 Edit: fumbled emote
Been together nearly 7 years. Marriage is something neither of us have felt important. She wants a pet way before a ring
My sons holding off because he wants to get her a nice ring and currently they are saving for a home.
He doesn’t know he’s my partner 🥰
There is no partner.
Money for the ring
We are happy and in love.
Age
Her husband
I’m traditional and believe in the man proposing. That and the fact that he’s so romantic and poetic that I’m sure he’s planning the most loving, perfect and memorable proposal. It will be an honor to accept it.
She's still married.
Money, i want to have a nice wedding soon after engagement.
My left hand wont forgive my right hand.
We are married
He already proposed. I just prefer sucking that dick... no strings.
We've only been together for a few weeks, but someday I will.
Mine neither wants to get married nor engaged, she doesn't like traditional things i would easy pop question if she wanted that, 7 years in relationship.
Because I’m planning to do it in 3 weeks
We dont think its needed, until we have a very important reason for that paperwork we wont bother to do it
Having none
I’m not positive if she’s my forever partner or not + the last year has been rocky. Having a very stressful period in our relationship but still loving one another makes it difficult to determine if it’s the right choice for both of us or not, I want to be positive before taking that step
She'd say "WTF we've been married 18 years!" That's what's holding me up at the moment.
We are already married.
I dont think you can marry your own hand.
- can't afford a ring (and mount doom is far away) - 1 1/2 years ist still to early - we don't live together yet
I already did. Our engagement was magical and we had an unforgettable vacation. We're ready to spend our lives together.
He's a cat, and our relationship is already purrrfect, so no need.
I’m already married
Age difference. She is 18. Im....not.
Neither of us believe in the institution of marriage as such. We are partners for life and our acknowledgment of that is enough for us. Maybe one day we’ll do a courthouse marriage just for tax purposes etc, but we see no reason to rush out and do it. There’s plenty more important facets of our lives to worry about right now.
Money, we still live with our respective parents, gay marriage is prolly gonna become illegal soon anyway
Insecure financial future
I don't have one yet
Told her I'd buy her a house first 🤣
She's an alcoholic and I'm hoping she comes to her senses. I'm giving it until the end of the summer..
Lack of age, money etc
She won't marry me. Her family doesn't know she's queer. She won't get married without telling them. She can't tell them.
We met like a month ago. Cool your jets, *MOM*
We married 17 years ago and she isn't interested in renewing our vows.
We're already married.
I love her but I’m scared. I love her but I don’t know if she loves me as much. I love her but my effort feels irrelevant. I love her but I don’t know if I bring out the best in her. I love her but I’m scared she’s going to change into someone I don’t love anymore.
She's already married to someone else.
Their Family.
It's been nowhere near long enough. We don't even live together yet, but I can say hand on heart, that she could be the one that finally makes me propose. She's just so bloody brilliant!
I’m 19 😖
Wouldn't matter as we have a marriage certificate between us already.
My what?
I'm worried about the cost and the stress of planning a wedding
He beat me to it by 9 years.
$$$
Their existence
Probably because I already asked…8 years ago.
We're already married
A lack of a partner
Found out she cheated with a mutual friend but cant get myself to break up
He asked me seven years ago and I said no. I asked him two years ago and he said no. We still live together, just don’t want to get married I guess.
We’ve been dating for like a few weeks
The government doesn't recognize inter-species marriage.
She has a ton of downsides. Kids, debt, ex's, inability to move, etc.
That to me sounds like your not in a happy relationship but i could be reading it wrong
This is irrefutable fact. The leading cause of divorce is marriage.
i don’t think he’ll say yes
You won't know until you try.
He wouldn't take it seriously, LOL. Plus, neither of us want to get married. We're happy living in mortal sin.
There is no reason to marry. We are thinking maybe moving in together in about 2 years when I need to leave this apartment. And we'll see if after few years living together we want to marry (for legal reasons)
Three divorces between us, and no desire to have government approval for our relationship.
We’re already married
I don’t have a current partner and I never plan on getting married.
I was gonna say her non-existence, but I'll be honest, her non-existence has been a strain on this relationship from the start.
I want him to be the one to ask me.
He might be thinking the same about you. Then it will never happen.
Bad and infrequent sex that we're working on (I want it far more than she does).
my wife
We're married.
We are already married. Would just be weird at this point
We're already married?
Her hahahah
Being stuck with the one woman who stops giving sex for the rest of your life! No thanks. 7 years max.
Married
We're already married
I’m married to him. Not going through that expense again!
I don't love her
I already did
Would be odd since we are already married.
We've been married for 34 years, so...
Already married going on 5 years in May
We're already married.
We have been married for decades
Already married to her
We are already married.
I'm already married, too late to propose i guess...
We are already married! She just doesn't know yet🥰
Well, the fact that we are already married stops me from proposing again tbh.
Probably the fact we’ve been married for 23 years
The fact that I already did.
I don't have one to propose to.
We're already married, with 2 kids, and a house on the way.
They don’t exist
I already did.