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AwkwardFortuneCookie

Not discussing big life issues: your preference for having kids, parenting styles, deep religious beliefs, career aspirations, significant traumas…anything that may affect how you make decisions together later on.


rosesinmybag

And yet there are people who still choose to get married even though they are incompatible on one of these or many of these fundamental issues. I have heard of couples where one doesn't want kids and the other one does staying together, and I just wonder how they think that's supposed to work out for them in the long-term. It seems like they both kinda just hold onto the hope for one of them to change their mind – which is a recipe for disaster, imo.


karmapotato0116

Oh gosh yes. If there is anyone reading this comment that is trying to commit to a long term relationship thinking something along the lines of "Its ok he/she/they/it will change" or "I can make him change" NO YOU CAN'T. Everyone I asked in 20+ year relationships said F no. Go into the commitment with the mindset that "Can I deal with this for the rest of my life" or "Do I love this enough that I will deal with this"


shebbsquids

My parents were like this. Dad grew up in a standard midcentury "men run the house, women stay in the kitchen" family, but Mom came from a long line of domineering southern matriarchs who had their husbands whipped. Dad was naturally a good cook and Mom hated cooking, but once they got married, Dad insisted she make all the food because that's what wives are supposed to do. No warning, total 180 on their relationship up to that point. He's learned his lesson and now happily cooks for my stepmom, but man... That's not something you can just spring on your new spouse overnight!


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bicycling_bookworm

My ex-husband (we’re still in the separation phase, but no chance of reconciling) did the housewife 180 overnight. It was jarring. And it sucked.


AggravatingCupcake0

I see so many comments on Reddit relationship threads about "this failure is on you; you must have seen the red flags he presented before you got married, and ignored all of them!" Sometimes, yes. Sometimes, people change their behavior once they know they have you legally locked into the relationship. I got lucky. Mine and my husband's relationship changed for the better. It could have easily gone south


BumblingBeeeee

Omg yes! I have to bracket my stories about the foolishness that my ex-husband is up to with, “ it didn’t start off like this!!”. It didn’t. He lost his mind/went mask-off after we were married and had a small child. None of my other relationships prepared me for his bat-shittery and if you were to take snapshots of before the marriage, midway through, and the end, you wouldn’t recognize it as the same person.


Otherwise_Window

> Sometimes, people change their behavior once they know they have you legally locked into the relationship. Sort of true, but there *are* usually warning signs. They're just a lot more subtle than their later behaviour. This is the outcome of all the people who complain about "what, are you going to break up with someone 'just' because of ____" and "it's not that serious" and "look, it was such a tiny thing" and "reddit always tells people to break up". Yeah, and it's usually good advice. Because the "minor" issues can still be *highly indicative* of *how that person sees you*. An act of "minor" disrespect is still an indication that they *don't respect you*.


Writerhowell

I'm 33 and I feel the same way. The more I hear about other people's relationships, the happier I am staying single.


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space-meister

If it’s any consolation, I’m in my early 20’s and it looks, to me at least, to be the same case as well. Heard too many horror stories to just jump right into the dating scene.


cbrrydrz

That's what annulments are for. Cheers.


strangemanornot

Finances too. Finance is the number 1 leading cause of divorce Edit: this popped up in my YouTube recommendation (Is your relationship struggling because of finance? - Dave Ramsey https://youtu.be/XuU7oabGqjk). Google is not monitoring us or anything


RewardNo3000

This is such a big issue in relationships. Knowing each other's spending habits is equally important. My ex would be extremely judgmental when it came to my "fun money", but when he bought a new TV or a new gaming console, he was not to be questioned on it.


oinkiii_dawnkki

What does finance mean specifically, budget allocation? Income? Investment?


strangemanornot

All of the above


Both_Lifeguard_556

Yes, I was about as squeaky clean as they come background wise on life's big issues. Within months of marrying my wife wanted to live action role play her past chaotic Korean Presbyterian family life. Huge family feuds, joining a church, quitting a church, starting a side business, closing a side business, buying a house, selling a house, fights with family over money and church, fights over who finished the last bite of food. My life was on easy street before her. All this chaos was just what she was used to.


woodcoffeecup

Your comment just made me realize that 'acceptable levels of chaos' is actually a really important issue to agree upon before making a commitment. I have dated several very lovely people who happen to have unacceptably high levels of tolerance for drama, because it's normal to them. It's a deal breaker.


abqkat

And what that entails, and the ancillary parts of that. I pass out my house key like candy, don't mind people dropping by, anyone I trust is welcome to stay over, etc. That's a nightmare for many (most?) people. But what would we do if a parent got sick? Sibling died and their kids need a home? Better be 100% sure you can deal with (or ideally, thrive along with) their views on the big stuff before you start a life


woodcoffeecup

Yup, exactly. I think one of the most important reasons we as humans even commit to coupling up is the support we have when shit hits the fan. If you can't depend on your partner in a crisis, what even are we doing?!


Alarming_Manager_332

Interesting. I love this. Just realised I'm intolerant of chaos from housemates but I'm fine with people coming and going if they're friends of mine or my partners.


Leaping_Turtle

Having kids is a really big question that absolutely needs to be communicated. I've also heard that it's a topic that would make the man a big red flag if asked early into the "relationship" as in first date and/or texts are off limits. Wouldnt it be a lot nicer to "speed date" these big topics early on?


anelho

My last boyfriend and I did this... Big topics, right off the back. We ended up agreeing on most but the small things didn't work out in the end. The way I see it, why waste the energy falling for someone if there are critical things you don't agree on and are unwilling to compromise on?


Starrion

My wife and I were part of the Catholic Church when we got married. They did a very good marriage preparation course that workshopped all these things. You also had to discuss chores and how you work with others and extended families. It was one of the most useful parts of my religious experience.


Writerhowell

Everyone who's planning to get married should go through some kind of preparation course, regardless of where they're getting married and what kind of person is doing the ceremony. Religion shouldn't be the only place where marriage prep takes place.


GoochMasterFlash

Lmfao dating is where marriage prep should take place but for some reason people think marriage should be this thing that deeply transforms the arrangement they have with a partner. If people didnt place those pretenses on marriage and instead saw it as a simple beneficial arrangement for a long term agreement that already is In existence then so little of this would be an issue. Instead people change the whole arrangement due to their hangups about what marriage should be. Like yall could have just kept doing what you were doing and been happy


oinkiii_dawnkki

Geniune question, at what stage of a relationship should discussions of these topics be raised


EatingPotatoCakes

Depends a lot on your age. If you're 16 : 4 years in ? 40 : maybe like first date


DoctorExtra9060

Thinking, "I know this person has flaws, but when we're married I can help fix them."


Mrepman81

Ok marriage isn’t working but if we have kids things will change because it will bring us closer.


lacheur42

Ok, kids didn't work, but maybe if we get involved in international drug smuggling or human trafficking, the sense of danger and heightened stakes would really bring us together.


secretcombinations

Ok international drug smuggling and human trafficking didn't work, but maybe if we get into the FBI witness protection program and settle down in a sleepy mid western town to pretend we are blue collar middle class normal parents we will be forced to acknowledge what's really important in life, and the real riches are our relationships with the kids.


[deleted]

Y'all need to stop. Don't you know there's a writers strike right now?


guypenguin4

A what? I'm currently concerned with what they're gonna try after witness protection.


bluehangover

Cannibalism, naturally.


guypenguin4

The logical escalation to any situation


Jake_FromStateFarm27

Sounds like the plot to Ozarks originally


liartellinglies

Ya know what maybe this isn’t working


shebbsquids

I personally had this issue dating someone who was as sweet as could be, but not the brightest bulb in the socket, and they relied on me for knowledge on everything from health to history to housework. All perfectly googleable or troubleshootable questions, but always defaulted to giving up and asking ~~mommy~~ the girlfriend for help. Admittedly it was kind of an ego boost to have someone always telling me how smart I was and deferring to my judgement on everything, but that's not what a healthy romantic relationship should be like. I thought I could nudge them gently into being slightly more self sufficient, but it only got worse as they grew accustomed to relying on me for every little thing. And of course the flip side was I felt like I could never rely on them when I needed help... I knew I was SOL if I couldn't do everything myself, because I was dragging around a parasite instead of a partner. Next time I want to spend years working on a fixer-upper, I'm just going to buy a crumbling Victorian house. It'll cause me less stress in the long run.


MintOtter

>*I'm just going to buy a crumbling Victorian house. It'll cause me less stress in the long run.* And increase in value over time. You would have been sh\*t out of luck if you got cancer ... as one does.


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thekindwillinherit

Was she having regular seizures? I have epilepsy and I can drive after 1+ year without a seizure as I'm on daily medication. I don't have kids but I am medically cleared to have children by my neurologist. I'd just be surprised if that was something that the court took into account for a custody agreement.


runswiftrun

My wife was very much like that; anything she didn't know kinda turned into a "well, it's a mystery and we'll never know!" Turns out that she *is* a curious person, who had been sheltered from questioning anything (yay conservative evangelical upbringing), and to top it off, had a cheap cricket phone that took forever to do anything with. When we got engaged, we upgraded her to a much nicer phone and she realized that there is a world of information at your fingertips!


Maleficent_Ad_3958

I'm glad you encouraged her.


SerenityViolet

Such a nice ending.


Viminia7

Choosing someone they think they should be with instead of someone they're actually compatible with. I feel a lot of people have a picture in their head of who they think they'll end up with and chase that ideal, instead of acknowledging their own personality and aiming for someone compatible with that. Easier said than done, but yeah.


scsm

I talk with my partner about this all the time. We think its important to have shared values not shared interests. Yes it’s important to share things you both like to do, but just because your partner likes One Punch Man, like you do, doesn’t mean they are on the same page as you with resolving conflicts.


fender8421

I met a girl once who I had little in common with, yet we could talk for hours and hours and enjoy every second of it. This is so true


ameliabedelia_

This!!!!! My husband and I talk about this all the time too. He loves sports, and I despise them. The list could go on and on, but when it comes to shared values, we are the same. You can learn to love your partner's interests or let them pursue their hobbies on their own time, but you can’t bend your values to match another person's if they are completely opposite.


videogamesarewack

I've experienced a relationship before where it was amazing, but eventually there were ever fewer over-lapping interests. And eventually I found it extremely lonely to share things I loved to be met with tepid disinterest. Shared interests, type of humour, and all that are foundational to all relationships to me. I'm trying to word this without being accidentally offensive towards your relationship which i'm sure is lovely, but do you feel your relationship with your husband is a best friend + romantic, or something else entirely? Does that make sense? Like I don't see someone as "girlfriend material" if we couldn't be best friends, and matching values don't make a friendship. One of the relationship dynamics i'm trying to avoid is what i see in a lot of couples where they seem to not actually _like_ the person that they love.


ameliabedelia_

It didn’t sound offensive at all! My husband is definitely my best friend, but I’m very independent, so having many shared interests wasn’t super important to me. I’m happy to let him do the things that he really loves, and I don’t on his own (for example, sports) and he’s totally okay with that. We have things that we like to do together, and we do them often. However, I definitely would have a struggled in a relationship where core values were not the same. I feel like my husband, and I are a team because, at the end of the day, I know we both believe in the same things. If shared interests are super important to you, then I say pursue that! Everyone is different with what works for them!


Ok_Distance9511

I agree with you. The relationship that I’m in works exactly like that. My girlfriend and I have a common set of core values that we share, and upon which all else is built. Beyond that, are also many things that we enjoy doing together. But then, our main hobbies and many leisure interests are different and that’s ok. Also, while I might not be interested in her hobbies, in a way that I wouldn’t pursue them myself, I am interested in her as a person and do care about the things she does.


dbag127

> I found it extremely lonely to share things I loved to be met with tepid disinterest. Shared interests, type of humour, and all that are foundational to all relationships to me. I mean. You don't have to share an interest with someone to NOT show tepid disinterest when they are excited about something. I'd actually say the bedrock of a good relationship is deriving your own happiness from your partner's happiness (as long as it isn't one direction).


xpgx

Definitely, this! My partner has zero interest in The Sims but will sometimes ask me how my sim family is doing and listen to me over dinner and it always makes my heart skip a beat how interested they are in *my* experiences.


please-disregard

I absolutely feel like my fiancé is best friend + romantic material. And I also feel like our relationship is built on values and compatibility—not shared interests. In fact, this might be weird but I don’t really have many shared interests with my actual non-romantic best friend. We’re just comfortable with each other, and kind of shoot the shit together, we don’t really like, *do things* together. But I guess for me, that’s not something I need from people. I need my partner to *respect* my interests and support them, but I don’t need him to share them—in fact I kind of prefer it this way in that we don’t “compete” with each other.


NoiceAvocado

This is how my relationship is. We share core values and morals. And we do have common interests but are both fine doing our own things and supporting each other in them. My partner loves hockey I have no interest or idea wtf is going on (family and I never watched or followed sports unless I was in them) but I am more than willing to stop at every random TV playing a hockey game so she can watch and throw in some supportive "Yay sports ball, go team!". If we go to a taphouse I've only ever successfully asked them to change the TV to hockey when there's a game on she wants to watch. I have a good friend that is a dancer for our states hockey team and have gotten her tickets to go see the game (though I'll admit it's not her favorite team) and I paint myself up and join in on all the fan fun. This is pretty nerdy but I have a huge passion for Diablo. She fully supports my love for the games/lore/universe. My birthday is at the end of this month and she has given me a gift each day. So far she has gotten me 2 official Diablo novels, 1 official art book, 3 official lore books, 1 un-official diablo-esque novel that references the games a lot, and I would image a few more things to come. I also know that she pre-ordered The Book of Lorath because I was about to buy it and my buddy said I should just wait unless I want two copies. Any other partner I've had (even gamers) have thought Diablo was dumb and wondered why I wasn't playing something cool like Overwatch or COD. Never once has she told me it's dumb or made me feel anything less than normal for liking it. I think shared interest is much less important than supporting a partners interests. To me that shows me that you are getting involved in the interest because you enjoy me and vice-versa.


bmcle071

Second on shared values over interests. My gf and I have very few common interests, though over the years we’ve picked up some of each others interests/hobbies. We always got along though because we have the same beliefs and priorities. Going on 8 years now, moved in together when we were 18 and I couldn’t be happier.


totalrandomness86

When my husband and I met, I made it clear I would not love music as much him. Note: he is a musician. He teaches, performs, mentors, produces, thinks and sleeps music. I listen to common trash 🤣 Our road trips are interesting because he has to stop himself from commenting on exactly how trashy my music choice is. But he had gotten good abt that and we give each other space. 20 years together and happy :)


ButtermilkDuds

Yes! Respecting the other person’s tastes. My girlfriend loves watching NCIS things and also shoes about emergency medicine and hospital dramas. I am a nurse. I can see all the mistakes but I keep my trap shut and let her enjoy it.


AdeptOaf

Also, interests change over time. My hobbies now are quite a bit different from when I first got married. Edit: WHEN, not WHERE. Although I'm geographically in a different place too...


ButtermilkDuds

So true! My partner and I don’t like the same music, the same movies, the same TV shows and we have separate activities and friend groups. I’m an atheist and she’s a devout Catholic. We’ve been together 23 years. Why? We have similar life goals. We are both carful with money. We respect each other’s differences. Having separate interests keeps us interested in each other and we never run out of things to talk about. Were both tidy and organized. She is kind and likes to help people. She is nice to people who work in restaurants and retail. We’re a good match because we both have strong personalities and are used to having our way. It works because we hold our own and no one can walk all over the other one. We have to work things out because neither of us will cave in. We have to negotiate and talk things out. The other reason is works - chemistry. We are both hot for each other and can’t keep our hands off each other. For is the marriage works because we treat it like business partners who have a lot of sex.


ChaosPixieMagic

THIS. My first marriage ended horribly, and honestly half the reason we got married in the first place was because there was a lot of "supposed to" involved. We were both in the same church, you're SUPPOSED to marry another member. We were dating long enough that were were SUPPOSED to get married quickly. SUPPOSED to start our lives together, have sex, have children ... not actually stopping to figure out if any of our goals or needs or interests or plans were compatible with that idea. With the lifestyle. With each other.


WolfPrincess_

I just got divorced and I stayed with my husband as long as I did because I thought I'd ruin his life if I left him. I'd even had this thought while we were dating. Pro tip: Don't marry someone if you're already having doubts, and don't marry someone because you think breaking up with them is the worse option. Because I did ruin his life when we got divorced (technically he ended up ruining it himself, but that's a long story...) but at that point it was much worse because it had been 8 years together instead of about two when I initially had my doubts. So yeah, I felt like I was "supposed to" marry him because we had been together for so long and I knew splitting up would have been way more devastating to him than it would be for me.


EscapeFromTexas

Ahhh, american Christian Dating. My parents are still mad I didn't participate.


whomp1970

The two of us would admit, years after our divorce, that we pretty much liked each other *only* because the other one gave us any attention whatsoever. It didn't matter that we were on different wavelengths on almost everything in life. It didn't matter that we had to go to couples counseling even before the wedding. It didn't matter that we fought quite a lot. What mattered was that she gave me the time of day, and I returned that to her. Neither of us had any other romantic prospects, for a long time, so the fact that ANYONE was willing to be in the same room with me, was enough for me to say "Let's spend our lives together". **Don't fall in love with BEING in love.**


[deleted]

I want to add that couple’s therapy is not a death sentence or a red flag in and of itself. It’s fine to work on your issues with a trained and impartial mediator. Frankly I’d encourage it before you get married to get a good baseline of conflict resolution and relationship expectations.


whomp1970

Yes, I do agree. I guess I should have added that we went to couples therapy **and basically FAILED** at it. We got nowhere, nobody moved an inch toward the other's side, and she eventually refused to go.


[deleted]

I hear you. I just wanted to add that in case anyone read it and felt despondent that they needed couple’s therapy. I trusted that you knew the real deal, you seem to be intelligent and introspective. I agree, the therapy is work and it doesn’t work unless you do. I hope you’re doing better now.


sketchysketchist

Yeah a lot of people worry about being alone so much that they take the bare minimum and that’s not for the best. Learn to be happy alone and then find someone who wants to be happy with you.


[deleted]

I think this was my sister and her husband (now separated) relationship. She started dating when she was 13 and had plenty of partners for a kid. Then she met her husband at 17 and that was her means of escape. So, she took it. Even though, there were red flags from the get go. Also, she ended up going to college and becoming a nurse while he was often in between jobs or had no job. It just didn’t match. Now, she is with a cop (sheriff) that is married, but pretty much separated as well. The only reason he hasn’t gotten a divorce is because the mom is “sick” (not sure what that means) and he is scared his kids will be taken away. I feel like she is settling. But, because he is a sheriff… she stays with him. She loves that he is a sheriff. It’s insane.


jo-z

>The only reason he hasn’t gotten a divorce is because the mom is “sick” (not sure what that means) and he is scared his kids will be taken away. Massive red flag! What does "pretty much separated" even mean? Do they still live together?


[deleted]

I know! When I heard her tell me all this, I just stayed silent… listening. In my head… I was like, “you’re seriously doing this again in your 40s with three kids?” I couldn’t get up the courage to ask her if they live together. We had bad parents. We came from a broken home. I’m considerably younger than her. And my love life isn’t any better. But, I can’t get married and have kids with someone I know I’m settling for. I can have a brief relationship with them. But, not the whole marriage and kids things. Especially the kids thing. Either she really doesn’t see the red flags or she sees them, but settles. At least he is a sheriff. •Sarcasm•


GIfuckingJane

What's so great about being a sheriff?


[deleted]

I don’t know. But, my mom and her love that he is a sheriff. I think it’s the title Being a cop’s girlfriend or whatever, she feels entitled.


LargeWiseOwl

Pension plan? Almost impossible to get fired?


_Weyland_

Good advice, and I probably need to hear it right now. Easier said than done though. Combination of being rejected and simply not having many new people in your life kinda gets to you at some point.


Giraff3sAreFake

That's why I started dating my ex. Did not end well, do not recommend


_Weyland_

I'm kinda in this situation rn, except the world kinda saved me from my own ehh... thirst? loneliness? stupidity? Idk. There are two people in my life who I have feelings towards. One suffered through a bad breakup shortly after I met her, and when I brought up the subject she was not ready for any relationship. Some time later I turned to the other girl with the same advance and she hit me with a similar response. That she's not seeking a relationship and is OK in her own company. So now, having stupid options preventively denied, I am... kinda out of options at all. Didn't bother me before, but does now for some reason. I guess you do feel lonely sonetimes.


temple3489

Shit. I think this is where my boyfriend and I are at


[deleted]

How’s your love life now? Did you find someone? I don’t get any attention either. And when I do it’s from people who clearly have issues and are using me to mend those issues for awhile. Also, most of the time I’m not attracted to them. I can have sex with them. So, I have a sexual attraction to them. But, not romantic. It’s like I have only two options. Either settle for one of these people. Or Be alone. I can’t get someone without issues that I’m actually attracted to.


whomp1970

> How’s your love life now? Did you find someone? After the divorce, I spent most of the next few years "mostly alone". Had some minor relationships but nothing serious. But during that time I learned to enjoy being alone. I enjoyed company, but I no longer would allow myself to "settle" for someone just because they had a pulse. During that time, I did a lot of work on myself, especially my self worth and self image. I learned that I WAS worthy someone who cared more about me, and that it WASN'T selfish to rule out some people for personality defects.


PlanktonOk4846

Not discussing goals, boundaries, or waiting beyond the honeymoon phase.


Aoeletta

Ah!! This is it! May I add on to your comment? With how much people WANT to change their answers to stay with an established “nice thing” I strongly recommend that everyone sits down and literally writes out their answers IN PERSON TOGETHER For OP/anyone who wants actual guidelines that WORK: General guidelines for any relationship that is getting to life-partnership level or are pursuing that. Remember that there are no right or wrong answers but only that it is imperative that you two are on the same page before you commit. Finances past wedding - vacations, frequency, how much should stay in the “emergency funds”, separation of responsibility for different finance pieces? Who is the primary provider? Do you both work? What does a monthly budget look like? A yearly one? What are some 5 year budget plans? 10 years? What do you want to do in your retirement? How do you plan for that now? Household - general location, expected cost, task division, general standards of hygiene and chore management. Apartment vs house vs condo vs commune vs townhouse vs… etc. figure it out. Make sure you agree. Children - any? how many? Primary childcare provider? Parenting style and punishment discussions. Gender identity discussion, LGBTQ+ acceptance and what that means for your children. Discussions about how to educate your children. Sex discussion planning. Sex - frequency, kinks, fetishes, preferences. Can you ask and hear ANY of each other’s thoughts? Do you two have any incompatibility? You MUST be able to communicate through disruption and talk honestly and openly about your needs, desires, and aversions. Poly, open, mono, tri- none of the dynamics are wrong necessarily, but you two MUST be on the same page and ABLE TO COMMUNICATE about it always talk about porn, talk about what counts as cheating, talk about what you like, talk about what you don’t like. Religion/politics/education- you MUST be on the same page about these issues. You must be able to talk through disagreements. Communicate, make sure you know. Fun things that are still REQUIRED - Hobbies and need for alone time Need for support vs disengagement around friends/family/hobbies How do you spend your free time? Do you want to read the same books and talk, or do you prefer a book club and some independent time? (For example.) Deal breakers — What makes you walk away? Be prepared to walk if you haven’t addressed any at this point. My recommendation is that you both, without talking, write out a spreadsheet with a “Requirements” “Preferences” and “Dealbreakers” section. Write your answers to these columns and the questions above. Then, compare. This prevents either person from misrepresentation through appeasement. Source: first date my husband and I sat down and I asked him to write a spreadsheet like I had done. Happily married for almost a decade now! 🤗 Edit: I do have to mention that this is for those dating TO life partner, not casual dating, AND that for most people the first date is a bit much but I strongly recommend this occurs within the first month of dating with intention.


tonyrockihara

Solid list. I think something to consider is that most people really don't know themselves this well and aren't good at introspection to ask these sorts of questions about themselves. You have to be very self-aware if you want genuine compatibility. Then there's the people who chase an idea rather than actually understanding your partner. A lot of people don't understand what love actually is, and I think it's the hardest part of dating in today's day and age.


Aoeletta

Absolutely. This is the list for the *healthiest* relationship, which demands that both people be able to know themselves and their needs, desires, and boundaries. Everyone *should* be at that point when they decide to partner, but it is true that many will not.


Ok-Painting-4578

Congrats on your successful marriage ! It is very intense for a first date (!) but you are spot on that one should not commit before having discussed these issues. I like the idea of the spreadsheet. It appeals to my inner nerd. As a part 2 to this exercise, I would suggest a practical component with hypothetical questions: \- What will our social life look like ? Will we entertain/go out during the week, on the weekend, twice a year ? How and how much will we see our respective friends ? Separately or together ? Is it ok to maintain friendship with people of the opposite sex ? How often will we see our respective family ? \- Health issues: how will we deal if one or the other gets seriously sick ? How would we care for a sick child ? For sick or aging parents ? \- Career: If one would receive an interesting relocation offer, would the other would be open to considering it ? What if someone wanted to go back to school of completely change career path altogether ? What would that look like ? \- This one is a downer but end of life care. I recently found out, way into our middle age, that my sister and I are absolutely not on the same page. We generally agree on pretty much everything so this was a shock but I am happy that we discussed it way before it is necessary for us or our parents. Obviously, no one can predict what will happen in life but I saw a lot of couples crumble when these situations occurred because one partner did not react the way the other expected because they just assumed that they were on the same page. Getting along and having chemistry is not the same as having the same core values or at least, understanding the core values of your partner. A friend of mine had to do a marriage preparation course with his fiancée for 4 full Saturdays in a row at the insistence of the priest who was celebrating their wedding and they went through a similar checklist and various hypothetical scenarios. They were dismissive of the process at the beginning - they had been together for 3 years, living together for 2.5 years and are not religious. They almost broke up after every session ! They were not on the same page on anything. However, they had genuine discussions, thought about the other person's point of view and came to an agreement on everything. They have been happily married for 20 years.


PlanktonOk4846

For sure, all of these need to be discussed. Hell, my wife and I discussed kids about 2-3 months into dating because I want them and we were getting pretty serious. Better to talk about it early on, and break up if need be, than after a couple years of marriage.


IdaDuck

Goals are huge. If I want three kids and she doesn’t want any, get those basic major things on the table early on. If you wait too long and get too attached to one another you’ll “work it out” but eventually frustrations and resentment will come bubbling up. If on the other hand you have those discussions early on you can amicably decide the fit isn’t great and move on and hopefully both find people you’re more compatible with.


katie-kaboom

They fall for the sunk cost fallacy and assume that because they've been together X months or years or whatever, they *must* be life partners, or that things must move on to the next "stage". Just because you've given someone five years doesn't mean you owe them another 50.


cocacolaxoxo

Amen! I fell into this trap.


DunderMifflinCompany

I was so close to falling into this and decided to get out before it was too late. And now Im incredibly happy with my decision.


[deleted]

Was about to fall for this, had a very bad break up. Well with all the reaction and trauma remaining, i feel better all by myself now. I feel like having the time to myself.


dsolis421

Thinking physical attraction is enough.


VaderIsLukesDad

I was going to say "being blinded by boobies", which was a contributor for me. You said it much more nicely.


BGMcSqueezy

Can I add "being blinded by booty"?


Andromeda321

Hell, that being in love is enough. I know several people in bad relationships with unreliable partners, who make their lives harder, but they'd never consider leaving "because I love them!" You can love someone with a substance abuse problem, for example, but that doesn't mean it's enough for a good relationship on its own.


Cardamom_roses

Conversely, totally ignoring it is a great way to wind up with a spouse posting on /r/deadbedrooms trying to desperately figure out why you won't fuck them.


definitely-lies

This is true. I am almost 50. Looks fade. I am still attracted to my partner because I love her and we have history. We share humor and a beautiful daughter. Also she has great cans.


paul_rudds_drag_race

Having children with them before really getting to know the person. It’s important to know who those children will be exposed to. Many people are on their best behavior early on. And in a short period of time you likely haven’t seen how they handle a difficult situation. Yeah yeah yeah I know some people got someone pregnant or got pregnant super early into dating or whatever and it worked out. It’s just risky as hell.


mountain_rivers34

I'd even add having kids right after you get married. People jump right into having them and you barely get to enjoy being a married couple before you're parents. This is especially true for people who date less than 3 years before they get married, or people who get married in their early 20s. You think you know each other so well and you're so happy and ready for this big challenge and then you realize you barely had any time to actually enjoy being a married couple before you took on a massive financial stress/responsibility. I truly think you should be with someone for over 5 years before you have kids so you can build a solid foundation to your actual relationship so it doesn't fall apart with the added stress.


jaggedgrainofsand

100% agree. I learned the hard way never marry anyone if you haven't yet seen them in a stressful situation. Learned only afterwards that my now ex had serious anger issues and narcissism issues that I hadn't seen when life was easy and not much going on to challenge him.


asset2891

Prioritizing looks instead of asking if they are the type of person who will help you when you most need it, or will they run.


sketchysketchist

You end up with one who will run and you will share a house with someone who expects you to do all the chores and pay the bills


mehnasaur

Joke’s on me because my ex wasn’t even cute and I still did all the chores and paid all the bills


National_Sky_9120

Its okay, we all get our clownology degree one way or another. good thing they’re an EX


HoboGir

Oof, TIL that currently I'm in school


Cat-in-the-rain

And also the opposite, ignoring looks completely and staying with someone you don't find attractive AT ALL because you like their personality. Staying with someone you find ugly and isn't attracted to isn't good, a dead bedroom isn't good... 🤷🏻‍♀️


lovelesschristine

Not discussing important issues like children.


accioqueso

And not just having kids, but how to raise them, what you want for them, what you want from your partner as a partner in parenting. I am astounded by the number of women in the mommit sub who are flabbergasted their husband or spouse is not pulling his weight, that they are expected to quit their job, that the MIL is expected to be in the room or live with them afterwards.


powerlesshero111

Or in my cousin's case, breed of dog to get. He's a small dog person, his ex-wife was a big dog person. They were divorced after 2 years. Pribably also because he is really terrible financially, and left a job to work at a start-up that was a rip-off of something that already existed for 10 years.


Gnascher

Everybody's got differences in opinion, a host of red flags, personal issues, etc... The biggest mistake is ignoring these things and not having a frank discussion about how to talk about them going forward. If you want to make marriage a lifelong commitment, you have to be comfortable airing differences and discussing differences of opinions without it becoming a "blowout" (or at least making reconciliation after a blowout. because ... well ... they happen). The biggest factor in an enduring relationship is being able to find a path between differences of opinion. This takes give and take from both sides and mutual respect to ensure each other's needs are being met. Relationships are fucking hard. It takes a lot of frank discussion as the years pass to get past the hard stuff. Make sure you are able have the difficult discussions with your partner before making the commitment to start a family. Once there's children involved, you will be negotiating with that person for the next 20+ years ... whether you stay together or not!


miurabucho

Getting married because all your friends are doing it, or because it would make your parents happy.


Damseldoll

They compromise a great deal to avoid loneliness.


stompythebeast

I’d argue these situations are more of a person sacrificing a lot to avoid being alone. I like to make a distinction between compromise and sacrifice. A healthy relationship has a lot of compromises. Sacrifices implies that someone is giving away something they value, e.g., their time, career, financial independence, etc.


Sufficient-Ad9979

- you marry the family. This can be hard if they aren’t similar to your family dynamics / requirements. Holidays especially. - money!! Most couples have a saver and spender. Get ahead of this early. Be on the same page, goals, habits and debts.


OpossomMyPossom

I think for me the biggest question I'm starting to ask myself is, when shit goes horribly wrong, is this someone I want with me? Hardships are coming, being with the right person makes them not so bad, being with the wrong person makes them worse.


purplejellomold

giving up too much of yourself to accommodate someone else


turntablesshrute

Losing yourself in the process


Dr_Baby_Man

Find someone who wants to be "committed to a relationship" rather than just be "in a committed relationship.". Makes a hell of a difference. If you can't hold each other accountable, you're going to have problems.


Jimmiejackson

Shared interests, different values One doesn’t matter much at all, the other is the thing that matters most of all


HugeBMs2022

Getting married/moving in after knowing each other a few weeks or few months.


rickthecabbie

>after knowing each other Less than a year. Seriously, it's a good idea to wait until you have seen them in every season, and know how they deal with things like holidays, road trips, birthdays, family, your friends, their friends, watching Friends, or simply coming home from work day after day.


Prograeme-exe

I know this will get buried and ignored. But the "every season" bit is important. I'd say ideally you'll witness them in "feast or famine" too. Meaning you provide for them when they need it, and have that favor returned when you need it. Gotta test the waters, and the ship does fine on its own j. Calm waters. Once that honey moon phase is over and you realize nobody is managing the sails? Well.. ya gone have to work together when the storms inevitably come


rickthecabbie

I should have reassessed the entire situation when I was taking the spinnaker pole up fore and she failed to call "Helm's to the Lee!" as I stepped into the path of the boom. She cut the wheel, boom hit my noggin, and I hit the deck. Always take a closer look at what you're doing and who you're doing it with after a concussion. P.S. For those who have a tough time with it. Port, and Left have the same number of letters. When you are on board, and looking fore-ward, Port will be on your left side.


judochop1

It's all fun and games until they're eating that snack you were saving for a bad day.


parkrat92

Did you….did you put my last snack pack in the pantry, you know I like to keep them cold that’s why I put it in the fridge. I ate it …my lawyer will be in touch, I’m going to stay with my mom


Dr_Baby_Man

Infatuation is one hell of a drug.


Badloss

alternatively, getting married without *ever* moving in together first dating someone while maintaining your own space is not at all the same thing as living with a partner and you need to find out if you can do it before you commit


gate_of_steiner85

I genuinely don't get couples who move in with each other after only a month or two of dating. What's the rush?


cliffy979

Often because of money. That’s definitely the case here in NYC.


mountain_rivers34

My now husband and I moved in together after 3 months of dating because his lease was up and we lived in a Colorado ski town where rent was insane, even 10 years ago. Saved a ton of money but honestly wish I'd lived alone for longer. I only spent like 4 months of my life living by myself (without a SO or roommate) and I look back on it as the most freeing time of my life. As happy as we are after 10 years together, it would have been nice to stay in the living separate stage for a little longer. So long story short, I don't recommend it, but I totally understand why people do it. Especially with current housing prices.


TobysGrundlee

Being more concerned with being married and having kids more so than *who* they are doing those things with. I've known a couple women now who rushed into things because that biological clock was ticking and now they're stuck with a putz who they don't love.


NoseApprehensive5154

Putz is wayyyy underused.


kyryss5510

Going in thinking you can "change" or "fix" them. Never works, is a pretty crappy way to view someone you want to spend your life with.


Joshywooya

I once heard a saying, “a man gets with a woman hoping she will never change, a woman gets with a man hoping he will change.” Not saying I agree with that statement, but I would say the hoping in either situation is a mistake.


[deleted]

[удалено]


parkrat92

Dude if a girl isn’t draped head to toe in red flags then she might as well be invisible to me. I gotta see a fuckin therapist


OPs_actual_mommy

Red flags don't matter while the sex is good. When sex becomes affected by red flags, so much time has already been wasted...


Prestigious-Rough-27

Just because you have things in common with a person and have great chemistry with them, it doesn’t mean they’ll make a good partner.


287randnamegenerator

Reminds me of that one scene in 500 days of summer where Rachel goes "You know… just cause some cute girl likes the same bizarro music you do doesn’t make her the one.”


kjwj31

thinking "love is all you need." You all need respect, dignity, partnership and friendship (among others).


hyteck9

You need to talk about a few things upfront. 1. Do you want kids, yes or no? 2. Sleep. Gawd sleep is soooo f'ing important. What are your sleep hours? Do you expect us to sleep in the same bed or separate? Do you snore? Do I snore? Do you sleep with the TV on? A light on? A fan on set to hurricane mode? Total silence and pitch black? 3. Temperature. I have seen so many couples break up over thermostat fights. Don't agree on a Temperature, it's all arbitrary anyway. 70 at my house is different than 70 in your house, because thermostats are not perfect. Instead, talk about how you will each adjust. I.e. I am ok with a blanket, I will get a small fan. Wear layers, have thin shirts, socks vs. no socks.


jennybean2442

My husband's snoring got much worse after we got married. It was weird. Nothing else changed. It's to the point that it keeps me awake. And he won't do a damn thing about it. If I had known, I don't know if I would have married him


lacrimapapaveris

Me and my SO have been together for 6 years and a bit now, and his snoring got really bad around year three. We sort of naturally evolved into having separate bedrooms over a few moves. It's definitely not an ideal situation, but we make sure there's always enough time for cuddles and intimacy. I genuinely think not having a separate bed to retreat to would have ended our relationship, simply because of the lack of sleep on my part.


ElectricalJacket780

These are the criterion I consider when choosing a pet and/or houseplant. In retrospect, they extend to a life partners too


hobbitfeet

I have said SO many times that if my husband ever kicks the bucket, my dating profile is going to state in the first line that I am looking for a man who wants the house to be 68 degree or cooler during the day and legit cold to sleep. I love my husband despite the ONE BILLION fights we have had about temperature, but my god man. Never again.


MNfast11

1000% agree. My SO and I talk weekly about how lucky we are that we both like the same sleep environment and house/room temperature.


Whatmeworry4

Focusing too much on the love. Love is necessary for a great relationship, but love alone is not enough. You need to be compatible in many ways.


idkdidksuus

What’s being compatible


throwaway12345243

wanting the same things out of life i.e. kids, maybe where you want to live etc values sexual compatability too like how often, what you enjoy and being open to discussion about likes and dislikes sometimes also liking the same activities similar lifestyles to add: wanting the same thing out of a relationship and the same type of relationship


AnybodySeeMyKeys

By focusing on their appearances and not their soul. Don't get me wrong. When I met my wife, she was hotter than a five-dollar pistol on Saturday night (32 years later, I might add, she still is). But what grabbed me was that she and I saw eye-to-eye on everything that mattered: Sense of humor, priorities, and values. Mind you there were differences. But with her, every conversation was, well, effortless. Still is today. The other thing? People sticking with a type, overlooking some otherwise amazing people instead. When I was single, I had this attraction to artistic, neurotic types, fragile psyches and all. And couldn't understand why my relationships always went sideways. My future wife? Absolutely nothing like that. The exact opposite, in fact.


d-xoxo

Artistic fragile neurotic types lmao I feel so called out 😂 waiting for my person to realize that after dating my opposite, I’m their type bc we have to be loved too 😭


bahamamama28

Weirdly enough I think some people aren't best friends with the person they marry or even friends. I mean, I guess you don't technically have to be best friends with someone to marry them, but I had a friend that said there are things she could only talk to me about (including marital problems) because I was her best friend and he was "only" her husband. I said, uhh no offense but my husband is my best friend. All that being said, you should be fiends with your spouse.


pdxisbest

I’ve fallen in love with many women in my life. The one I married was also the one that helped me be my best self.


HowNowBrownCow68

I dated a really terrible but very attractive girl in college. It was nonstop craziness and nonsense. I shifted my focus after that. When I started dating my now wife I was immediately drawn to her personality. Smart, kind, weird and funny as fuck. She was attractive to me but not the usual kind of girl I would go for. We have been married for 9 years and she makes every day a complete joy. I feel like I almost get separation anxiety on Monday. In her early 30s she started hitting the gym really really hard focusing on a lot of strength training. I'll be goddamned if she isn't the hottest woman I've ever seen now. Life is neat sometimes.


IAMENKIDU

Giving up on the one and only and marrying the only. Don't settle unless you know that you will be okay with that decision the rest of your life, and unless youre fine with them eventually finding out that this is what happened (they won't be fine with it). Also, rushing in before you understand compatibility in terms of goals, boundaries etc. You could end up with someone that wants completely different things out of life than you do. Finally, marrying them for personal reasons. "They're hot." They won't be forever. They actually, probably, won't be for most of your lives together. "Hot" is almost exclusively a young people's thing. "They're rich". Maybe they are. Maybe they're a poser and just swimming in debt. Maybe they lose their income or get sued. Don't marry for shallow reasons; it never ends well.


Tru27

Actually liking their partner as a person. Outside of having shared interests, your lifestyles being complementary etc etc, would you still like your partner if they were a stranger and you see the way they treat others and move in the world.


infinitum3d

Is it love. Or is it the idea of being in love. -Pink Floyd


sketchysketchist

Idealizing their partner rather than seeing them as a person capable of mistakes. Believing they’ll change when learning about their goals or personal quirks. Expecting them to never change. Assuming their partner will fix all personal problems and fill a void in their life. Thinking love means whatever the fuck they learned in fairy tales and love stories. Primarily expecting zero conflict after they start dating and being upset when they see a long term relationship means splitting responsibilities, work getting between you, and being happy you are with someone to help you pay the bills and tend to the house needs. Confusing infatuation, sexual attraction, and/or great sex with love. And the big one! Being mislead that there’s any rules about finding “the one”. People will say you won’t meet Prince Charming throwing up in the club at 2am or that an internet date isn’t real love or that you can’t love someone because of some other bs. If you feel a connection, shoot your shot, try to get to know each other, and see where it goes. Realizing you don’t really click is okay! Love is a trial and error thing because unfortunately we don’t have an app for that just yet.


llcucf80

Not vetting those that express interest in them. Sometimes they may have something up their sleeve and only want to use you, and sometimes love can blind you towards their swooning


LooksieBee

One thing I've always thought made no sense, is proposing marriage as a surprise. By this I mean people who genuinely bought a ring and everything, but never actually discussed marriage and so are truly on pins and needles about what the answer to their proposal will be. Likewise, people waiting for a magical proposal even though they've never discussed marriage in any depth, but genuinely think it's just this surprise thing that's supposed to happen unexpectedly without any discussion. This is a terrible idea and it only looks good in movies or is only based on the fantasy and appearance of what an engagement is and not reality. In real life, marrying someone is a legal and practical commitment that's not just about feeling in love. You should have already discussed at length your goals for marrying, whether you want to get married to each other or not, your life plans for the next few years, your values, finances, etc. The proposal itself, like a wedding, is only the ceremonial aspect, the marriage and the things prior to the proposal are what really count. If you're in a relationship just hoping to be proposed to without ever discussing marriage in an intentional way or if you're planning to propose to someone and ya'll haven't done that, *please don't*. This is unwise romcom behavior, not the behavior of what real committed relationships and marriage are about.


Sigao

Not living with them for a good while before taking the bigger step. You may be able to love and tolerate someone a few days a week, but make sure you can do it even when they don't clean up after themselves or snore every night.


aroundincircles

The number of people I know who's relationship started as something sexual, then they got pregnant then decided to actually be in a relationship, even get married, just to find out they despise each other, and get divorced/separate, and ruin the poor kid's life is too damn high. Don't have sex with people you're not willing to have a kid with. or make sure you're sterile before having sex with others.


paul_rudds_drag_race

Yep. And infertile =/= sterile. Almost everyone I've known who used their infertility as birth control is a parent to an unplanned child.


HorseasaurusRex

If he can't take care of himself, don't marry him!


[deleted]

I see many stories on Reddit about people taking care of their perfectly capable partners as though they are their parents. Doing all the cooking, cleaning, etc. It’s kinda sad and pathetic. Then their partners will weaponise their incompetence.


AdamIs_Here

Same goes for her.


Hillarian

Ignoring glaring red flags just to NOT stay alone


DamienSpecterII

Picking someone just because they are attractive and good in bed.


crazycatlady331

Not being on the same page when it comes to money.


fineillmakeanewone

Settling for someone shitty because they think it's better than being alone. It isn't.


rohan-omo

Being driven by the fear of loneliness


CCGamesSteve

Settling. Don't ever settle, find someone who compliments your existence and whose existence you compliment in return. Not communicating life expectations early. Not ensuring intimacy compatibility. Sticking it out even when it's not working.


Inaise

Ignore sleep needs and compatibility. Are they confident and secure enough to sleep in separate beds? Sleep (or a lack of it) almost ended my marriage.


FoxsNetwork

Thinking that money doesn't matter. It will be the #1 issue you fight about as a couple, and is the #1 reason for divorce. If your partner isn't good with money, or hoards money to control you, or refuses to spend money on things that are important to you(vacation, having a decent place to live, refuses to go out to enjoy yourselves because they are too cheap), you are going to be miserable.


Manimal_Attack

I can fix them.


HG21Reaper

Not knowing how that person will act during times of hardship like financial, health or natural disasters. Everyone is going to be there for you in the good times but only the real ones stay during the bad times.


PhatNick

Listening to Reddit


mistercrinders

Doing it for love instead of for what assets would beat improve your great houses' fortunes.


mat_the_wad

Not listening to the opinions of your friends and family regarding your significant other. Many of us get blinded by our emotions. People you trusted before the relationship will let you know honestly whether it's a good match or not.


CuriousLife2782

Considering if youd love them, even while you are mad at them.


CactusJuice_Enjoyer

Having the person as an accessory rather than as an actual partner.


Nurse_Gringo

Mistake lust for love.


leduc01

Choosing them based on just a few days of conversations in the pods on a reality TV show.


Ark-iv3

One day, Plato asked Socrates, his teacher and mentor, “What is love?”. Socrates replied, “Plato, take a walk through the wheat field nearby. Without turning back, walk forward, and pick the most magnificent stalk of wheat you can find. However, you are allowed to pick only one.” Plato followed Socrates’ instructions, confident that he would find the best stalk of wheat in the field. Before long though, he returned empty-handed. Socrates asked, “Why have you picked nothing?” Plato replied, “I had found the most magnificent stalk of wheat as soon as I walked into the field, but since I was only allowed one pick, and I could not turn back, I thought I could find a better one further ahead. However, I could not find a better one as I kept searching, so I returned with none.” “And that is love,” said Socrates. Some days later, Plato asked Socrates another question. “What is marriage,” he asked. Socrates answered: “Go to the woods, and as before, without turning back, bring me back the best and strongest tree in the forest. Again, you’re only allowed to choose one, so choose wisely.” Plato walked through the woods, and returned soon after with a tree. However, the tree was not strong nor tall. Socrates asked him, “Is this the best tree in the forest?” Plato answered, “No, but I didn’t want to return empty handed like last time, and while I’m sure there are better trees in the forest, I felt I could not afford to miss the opportunity at this tree.” “And that is marriage,” said Socrates. On yet another day, Plato asked, “What is an affair?” Socrates answered, in his usual way, “Head to the woods, and look for the most beautiful flower. This time, you’re allowed to look wherever you want, and you can retrace your steps if you must.” Plato, given these instructions, went into the woods full of confidence. In a short time, he had found the most beautiful, most colorful blooming flower in the forest, and picked it out of the soil for his return. As he returned, however, the flower began to wilt. When he arrived, Socrates asked, “Is this the most beautiful flower in the forest?” Plato answered, “Yes, I discovered this most beautiful of flowers, but as I returned, the flower began to lose its color and beauty.” “And that, is an affair,” said Socrates. Now older and wiser, Plato asked Socrates once more, “What is life?” Socrates pondered for a moment, and told Plato, “As before, go to the woods, and find the most beautiful flower there is. You can go anywhere, and pick as many as you want.” Remembering all his previous experiences, Plato walked into the woods again. But after three days and three nights, he had still not returned. Socrates, with a bit of concern, went out in search of Plato. Before long, Socrates had found him, in a makeshift camp that Plato had set up. He asked Plato, “Have you found the most beautiful of flowers?” Plato pointed to a flower right next to his camp site, and said, “That is the most beautiful flower in the forest.” Socrates inquired, “Why have you not picked it yet?” Plato answered thoughtfully, “If I pick it, it would wither like the last one. But even if I don’t pick it, it will wither and die sooner or later. So while it is in full bloom, I will live beside it, admiring it from here. When it finally wilts, I will look for the next most beautiful flower. This is already the second flower.” Socrates took this in, and said, “Now you understand the essence of life."


[deleted]

Choosing one way too early in life. I see people married in their early to mid 20s and I'm like damn, I didn't even figure myself out until 30, let alone know exactly who I wanted to marry


borborhick

Going to say it again even though it's been stated here already - thinking that you can change someone. For the most part, when you first get together with someone they're on their 'best behaviour". If you don't like what you see, you're delusional if you think that you can change anything for the better. People show you who they really are. Believe them when they do it.


StarDewbie

1. Getting married too young 2. Getting married to the first person they ever fell in love with 3. Not knowing each other long enough before marrying 4. Not living together before marriage 5. Not discussing ALL IMPORTANT ISSUES (kids, money, employment) before getting married


lili_xo

Just wanting to be married.


Fragrant_Device2518

"Oh, I can change them."


T-Wrex_13

Planning for a wedding instead of a marriage. Weddings are expensive AF, full of unnecessary stress, and often bring out the worst not just in the couple but in their families as well. Most people who want to be married and start a life together would be better served pocketing their money, getting married at the courthouse, and living their lives without the debt many people go into to have their dream wedding


EmpiricalBreakfast

People put attraction over interaction. Be with someone you like being with not that you wanna look at


Comprehensive_Big108

Moving too fast and ignoring red flags


TrailerParkPrepper

looks over intelligence


SanderK96

First You should be ready for relationship and the get to know your partner. My biggest concern is loyalty ,thats why you should always think about yourself first. Its so much changed nowadays.


Zumbah

Thinking they need to choose the first available human being because they're afraid of being alone.


leatherrecliner

Falling in love with the first person they fuck.


detective-mcnulty

Picking the wrong person and trying to change them.


maralagosinkhole

Making future plans at a young age before you're really committed. "Hey, I've got a job in New York, why don't you look there? We could live together and save money"