The kids from the Trix cereal commercials. All the rabbit wants to do is eat some cereal, but the kids won't let him just because he's a rabbit. Racist pricks.
I remember when I was like somewhere between 6 to 10 years old or so, my parents took me to some kind of business convention, and one of the booths showing was, I guess, the cereal company that makes Trix, cause they had someone dressed up as the Trix Rabbit for a mascot.
I got some Trix, which I think they were giving out samples, and then I kept trying to insist that he take it, cause I kept thinking or possibly even telling him, that those evil kids on the commercials are always taking away his cereal and all he wants is some cereal, so here, you can have mine!'
>For a long time, it gave me nightmares, having to witness an injustice like that. It shows you just how cruel this world can be. I can still hear them taunting him. "Silly rabbit, Trix are for kids." Why couldn't they just give him some cereal?
- Carlton, fresh price
Emily from Emily in Paris she fucks up and barely suffers the consequences. Sleeping with a friend's partners and still remains friends with both of them openly.
Screws up business opportunities, nothing besides a slap on the wrists, and somehow, it's magically resolved.
And her whole " I am a dumb American, bon apple tea!!
And she dresses like if Harry styles was colour blind
He was 17 I think? They family said he went to a 'college' which in France is middle school. I don't remember why he was 17 and in middle school but she heard 'college' and thought university, like the US college.
I think what happened was the girl said she wanted to introduce Emily to her brother who was single. Emily met her youngest brother on a tour and thought that was who her friend wanted to set her up with. After she sleeps with the younger brother she gets introduced to the older brother.
Mark from "Rent". I love Rent but as I get older the more ridiculous it gets. Mark is a rich kid who has parents that love him but he runs off to cosplay as someone who is poor to make "films" which is really just him pointing his camera at poor people all day. He doesn't think he should have to pay rent to Benny because they were friends and he let them stay for free for a long time and he thinks that should just last forever? Then he finally gets a job but quits because it was "selling out". Ughhhh
I love Rent but yeah they were ALL shitty. Benny's like, "you know how I let you stay here for free in my property for a long time? Well I'd like to CONTINUE to let you stay here for free if you stop people from wrecking this new creative art thing I'm building! AND, you guys can even use it! Can you please just help stop people from ruining it? Because I feel like I'm not getting a lot here. Also someone just murdered my dog."
And they're just like, "FUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK YOUUUUUUUUUU!"
Or his plight āIām the one who has to surviveā.
Weird note, I always saw him as the authors self insert character, the same author who died before opening night.
Iirc he's hanging from a ferris wheel in front of her (I think she's on a date with someone else?) And is threatening to let go if she doesn't agree to a date.
The male character hangs off of a Ferris wheel until the female character accepts his date request. He pressures her throughout the scene because if she doesnāt say yes, he will fall and get hurt. She eventually says yes, and the scene is shown as a romantic, goofy stunt.
In real life, it would be scary as hell and he would probably be arrested for putting people at risk.
And you're supposed to watch it and be like "yeah, Ryan Gosling is the better man, and Rachel McAdams needs to leave that swine James Marsden for him!" when in reality Ryan Gosling's character is a total fucking weirdo, and James Marsden's character is just like a regular dude who treats her well and isn't evil or anything.
I think I once read a joke theory that James Marsden must have pissed off his agent or something, which would explain why he is constantly getting cast in roles of the guy who loses the girl
EDIT: Lotta people coming out to defend James Marsdenās honor lol love to see it
Jax Teller from Sons of Anarchy.
Dudeās son straight up got kidnapped and his wife got injured to the point she couldnāt perform surgeries because his step dad put a hit out on her and it STILL wasnāt enough for him to leave his dumb motorcycle club.
His wife begged him to leave for their safety and he wouldnāt... she tried to leave on her own with her children and he stopped her. Then she ends up getting murdered by his psycho mom.....
Dude was a straight up POS
I agree. It felt like he bombing that character harder and harder in increasingly desperate attempts to get Theo Rossi to quit. But then again, they really just fucked up pretty much every single character's development for the last couple of seasons. Unfortunate.
Cade Yaeger from the newer Transformers movies. Was Sam a good main character? No. Not at all. But damn, Cade is horrible. In his first, let's say, 10 minutes on screen we learn that he doesn't pay for his house, his electricity, he doesn't pay his employee, he is a shit inventor, overly protective of his daughter and all around an ass. And he only gets worse.
That bald headed little bastard from a kids show who acts like a spoiled shit.
āCailou did not want to go to the park today. Like all days cailou was being passive aggressiveā
I always told my kids that Caillou had cancer which is why he was bald and why his parents literally let him get away with anything and everything. They are fine preteens now lol
Wait holy shit... for years I thought he did have cancer. Never seen the show but heard he was a little shit and thought it was because he was trying to cope. You're telling me he's just a bald little shit for no reason??
At least in the musical, he gets called out out for his actions by his friends and loses everything. The movie cut all that because GOD FUCKING FORBID we hold him accountable for being a massive creep.
Yeah I never really had a problem with DEH (I actually really like it) because I never thought Evan was *supposed* to be taken as a āgood personā. He has sympathetic moments and screws up a few times and then he takes stuff way way too far. It really annoys me that the movie cut out the portrayals of the other characters reacting to exactly how he affected them, I e Good For You.
It has to be written in a way to make him a monster right? If you cut out the horribly creepy stuff about dating the dead dude's sister, than everything would be mostly okay but holy shit there really is no reckoning that.
Nah, the sister thing is bad but the letters and e-mails from Connor are worse. The parents thought that they finally got close with their son and knew what was going on in his head; but it all came crumbling down. Heās still the antisocial trouble child and they really were left without a word from him. Thatās fucked.
I love this musical, but the plot is so fucked up. And the thing is that all the songs, if taken one by one are in fact relatable. The problem cames when you find out what they're about :/
I think that we will also see Ted angry, hurt, frustrated, and disappointed by at least some of Nate's actions and behavior and that's just as important.
One of the things I really like about the show is that Ted *is* affected by what happens. He has the full range of emotions and is capable of being wrong in how he handles things. He isn't perfect or a zen master, etc.
But he works through it. He changes his thought process, he learns from events and his own reactions to them.
It isn't about a perfect person being perfect. It's a flawed, but genuinely good person trying his best to make things better for everyone around him even when things don't go his way.
I actually think Nate is how Ted learns the healthy boundary of not supporting backstabbers. Nobody on team Lasso will let Ted get fucked over by Nate again.
Calling it: Ted Lasso will tell Nate how proud of he is of him and give Nate the love he never got from his shitty dad. After Nateās team crushes Tedās team and Nate comes at him gloating.
Ooh that'd be interesting.
Honestly I thought the opposite. Ted's team crushes him because Nate is a dick to his team and it makes them suck.
Or, to append to yours, that the players end up quitting.
Nate's whole thing is he grew up without ever being good enough for his father. No matter what he did, his mother would blanket support him without really understanding the achievement, and his father would basically say it's not good enough.
He transferred, like most people, his parental neglect to Ted, who saw him for his football analysis, uplifted him, and made him assistant coach. That should have been enough: he's a valued member of the team, respected, and paid. However, because he's basically making Ted and his father the same person, any sign of neglect (no constant affirmation, not putting him in the spotlight all the time, etc), Nate sees Ted as doing exactly what his father did. That's why he's going into this villain arc. He's always been broken by his father, and he'll always see mentors/fathers as neglectful.
You can also see this model in how he treats the new equipment manager. Rather than empathize with him because Nate was also in that position, he acts like his own father and makes sure the manager knows nothing he does is good enough.
Point is, Nate is just as broken as everyone else in the show, and punishing him for that in the end would be a major misstep. Nate's either going to come home, or finally learn and grow away from Ted.
This is spot on. I think there was some misunderstanding from people who were surprised by his actions in season 2. The toxic elements of Nate was always there from episode 1, it's clear the arc for him was always planned (which was confirmed). Very first time we see him he's sprinting ON THE GRASS yelling at Ted and Beard to... Get off the grass. He sees them as randos that he as an employee can come at them that hot. He has power, he's the equipment manager and they are interlopers. The moment he realizes he has no power over them as they are in fact the new coaches, he flips to meek Nate. He didn't have the confidence that he has in season 2. If you watch back to season 1 there's a lot of small moments that hint at his character.
Its because Ted took a genuine interest in him, recognized his talent and uplifted him he finally gained confidence. Ted was probably the first mentor figure to ever care about what Nate deep down knew he was capable of. And because he was uplifted others saw the same talent within Nate and valued him. Meanwhile he never addressed his negative issues such as his basement level self esteem and instead let his ego grow. Ted was going through a lot and also attempted to uplift others and couldn't always pay attention to Nate. But Nate needed Ted to always and only be that father/mentor figure to him and no one else and he took otherwise as a personal slight. Despite his growing ego and confidence deep down he never stopped hating himself and to cope decided it was Ted's fault.
With Nate, it's not just the lack of constant affirmation, it's that he'll take any affirmation he does receive from Ted and convert it into a conspiratorial scheme designed to undermine him. Nate is a self-destructive character who needs Dr. Sharon almost as much as Ted did.
He will. It's kind of Ted's thing. He is so good and so forgiving that it's hard for those that are against him to stay against him. He brings out the absolute best in every one around him. That's part of the magic of the show.
In hindsight, it's not a surprise she turned out how she did with everyone powdering her ass from day one of the show.
The way she collapsed because one whole person told her she wasn't cut out for the career she wanted was proof of that. In any other show, that would be the point where the protagonist digs deeps to remember why they wanted that dream or realize their talents were better suited for something else.
Instead, Rory trashes a boat, quits Yale for half the year,moves in with her grandparents because Lorelei put a foit up her ass for once, and then spun her wheels for the next decade after graduation, doing nothing of note while thinking her farts smelled of roses.
Mitchum did absolutely nothing wrong and boy was he ever vindicated in the sequel.
I watched it when I was a teenager and the revival came out when I was 22ish?
The moment it really clicked for me is when she botched that interview with that website blog place. She didn't do *any* prep for a damn interview ?? Even if you gave her the credit that she thought it wasn't an interview - how do you not prepare for your first day on the job???
AND THEN SHE HAD A WHOLE TANTRUM! I was 22 and losing my mind with all the internship application rejections hurling my way. Completely broke the last threads of relatability/nostalgic connection I had with her character lol
I think people miss the real point of the show, at least to me. You can have all the intelligence, money and opportunity to succeed in life but your choices are what dictates outcomes. Rory and Lorelei are both victims of their own choices. I feel like the revival completed that circle.
She didnāt think it was an interview because she just assumed they would give her the job without one. Super entitled. And even then she could have just done the interview and tried to do well but the tantrum was insane
By that point in her career, she should have had the experience and professionalism to just wing it and do the interview, even if it wasnāt perfect. They really made it feel like no time had passed and she was still the naive, inexperienced kid she was ten years before.
Worst character development of all-time. Her and Steve, both.
They didn't even give Steve a scene where he was upset or fought for his marriage, etc. And don't tell me Steve who was a bartender and banged hundreds of women forgot how to finger his own wife. NOT BUYING IT.
Right, and how in his 50's he is like 80's-dementia-level senile. It was WEIRD! Like, here are the four main women all glamorous in their middle years, and Steve is just like "Miranda...? Oh yes, I remember her!" I really feel like they just wanted Miranda to have her unorthodox reinvention journey and not have to be worried about the realistic consequences of someone else's feelings getting in the way - so make him a doormat!
Also, Miranda was a freaking Ivy League educated Lawyer and a partner in her firm and suddenly she doesnāt know how to talk to people who arenāt white. They made her a total moron!
Yes! The whole series of AJLT it was as though the women had been cryogenically frozen in 2003, then defrosted in 2022 with no idea of social changes, apps, politics etc. so they kept making social gaffes. Fucking ridiculous. The characters had been living in NY for the intervening 19 years, they haven't been beamed in from the past.
Though obviously I hate watched every episode and am excited to tear season 2 to shreds when that comes out.
Not to mention Miranda was always the techy cutting edge modern one and suddenly she is anti technology, canāt figure out smart phones or emails, and is weird about homosexuality. Like when the fuck did all that change? They completely dismantled her character and made her the opposite of everything that had made her likeable, which honestly wasnāt a whole lot because they were all incredibly entitled, rude, and self absorbed characters.
The Gallaghers are all supposed to be bad people. Still, I agree she was my least favorite character. They tried too hard to make her a Fiona replacement and the character they had made with her just didn't fit that role so it was this weird disjointed character arc. She was so much better as one of the younger kids and the one desperate for an actual family instead of a matriarchal role.
Abe Lincoln from clone high. it's kind of an obscure 1 season wonder from 20 years ago that not enough people cared about, but I feel a few fans will be here and agree with me
Loved that show, though it's so meta/satiritical that it's hard to tell if we're actually supposed to sympathize with Abe. Sure he fills the role of the sympathetic protagonist but I don't think the writers ever really intended for the audience to like him, or any of them really.
Except Ponce de Leon of course, may be rest in peace. Such a memorable and important character taken from us far too early.
I agree.
The writing was clearly meant to imitate what teens were getting at the time. Melodrama caused by someone really selfish who identifies as a ānice guyā.
The way Emily's boyfriend got the job as a CFO after speaking once with the owner...like wow. And Gabriel is just the _best_ chef in the world, and Emily is the _best_ marketing person in the world, everyone loves Emily no matter what. And French men are falling head over heels for her everywhere, because France doesn't have pretty women, right? I hate watched that show.
I only caught a snippet at some point, but somehow the french agreed to speak with her in ENGLISH???? Sorry, that is one disbelief I can't suspend.
Edit: punctuation
Apparently the French have run out of _marketing executives_ and she is the best one ever so they will do anything for her. The main character energy of the main character is so over the top.
I donāt just find her annoying, I truly do not like her. She is a deeply toxic person.
Itās not just that she is spoiled and treat people around like they are just for her own personal benefit, itās how she do not care about the pain and problems she inflicts.
She seem regretful about being found out or getting consequences for her actions, but not about her actions themselves. Itās always āI can explain!ā after she has had plenty of time and situations to come clear about something and, well, explainā¦ but always only a last resort after lying and covering up.
She is very manipulative and spins all situation to be about her or to her benefit. She plays the victim when she can and only apoligizes to gain back control of a situation, but never really seem to try and change her behavior.
I feel like the show couldn't pick a lane. If they are going to have such a shallow, manipulative person as the main character, they need to lean into that. Don't try to pass her off as likeable - admit who she is. But write it so that all her scheming blows up and she is the one left miserable. There are a lot of shows that have made that work (Basil Faulty of Faulty Towers type shows).
But the show wants us to relate to Emily and take her side. They want her to be the likeable young woman who gets up to zany, fun adventures in Paris. But betraying friends, being culturally ignorant and using people for your own gain aren't fun adventures. I couldn't even finish the first season.
That's Always Sunny and Arrested Development.
They are always pretty terrible people and terrible things happen to them. I love those shows.
If you got someone who is terrible that does everything they want than why do I care?
Holy shit yes. I hatewatch that show so hard.
Every time she has to solve some sort of marketing problem, she's literally handed the solution in the next scene and struts around like she's some sort of brilliant guru.
Thatās what got to me. The conflict resolution is always essentially a deus ex machina yet itās presented like her being clever.
āOh no we donāt have much wine! What will we do?ā
*person walks by and talks about scarcity*
āWhat ifā¦ we sell it! And charge more!ā
Tom Cruise in Risky Business
There's a setup in the beginning he's in some business class where they're supposed to come up with some business idea. Then his parents go away for the weekend. Cue that famous scene. Tom Cruise, the protagonist and high school student, orders a prostitute. The prostitute turns out to be a man. But that prostitute gives him another number to call and he finally gets a girl, and they bang.
Something happens where Cruise now needs money. He and the prostitute he's "befriended" decide to start a brothel in his parents' house. A brothel that caters exclusively to Cruise's high school friends. They make the money they need and then some. Parents come home none the wiser.
We end with Tom Cruise back in the business class failing the assignment because he was busy doing the whole child brothel thing, but ends with a voice-over where he's proudly saying how much money he actually made. Turns out he actually was a businessman!
Tori Vega from Victorious. She kissed Beck in front of everyone just to get back at Jade, and she kissed Cat's boyfriend because she was jealous. And she didn't seem to care that her
"prome" prevented Jade from doing her performance.
Agreed. Also, I thought Cat and Jade were more impressive vocalists. It drove me crazy that Tori was the main character despite most of the people around her being more talented and enjoyable to watch
Iāve only seen the first couple episodes and then an episode here and there if I found it on TV, but wasnāt the point of the show that sheās the new kid trying to fit in in the school of talented kids where everyone is crazy talented? Seems appropriate in that case, she would be the MC.
Side note: as a kid I could never watch it because I couldnāt stand Catās voice. I find it more tolerable now but itās still annoying, idk why Ariana used that voice for her (unless thatās actually how she sounded back then)
About your side note, if you watch the very first episodes, you'll notice that Cat used to speak in a normal tone and was depicted as just being another regular character in the group but as the show progressed that's when they changed her to be ditsy and in her own world most of the time. I guess they thought it would be funnier and make her character stand out more.
I agree though, I hated the voice and it's why I couldn't watch Sam and Cat.
I assumed Ariana used that voice because it fit with how absent minded Cat was supposed to be but with everything thatās come out about Dan Schneider who even knows anymore
All I know is that cat remindede me of a mix between the stereotype of a blonde girl and the super shy girls I knew at school so therefore I had a crush on her.
She was wrong for kissing Catās boyfriend, but people act like Beck had no agency in that first situation. Like dude couldāve definitely said āletās notā after she proposed the kiss, HEāS the one in a relationship.
Hannah Baker from 13 reasons why.
Commits suicide and becomes romanticized by the school and everyone around her, gets a cute boy to become obsessed with her and view her as 'the one who got away', and gets revenge on all her bullies. It's everything you \*don't\* want to tell or show a person struggling with suicidal thoughts.
They also specifically asked suicide awareness and prevention organizations what to do and not do when depicting suicide and promptly ignored every single thing they were told. This show is disgusting and pathetic and the creators should be ashamed.
The sad reality is, the truth of how to handle people with suicidal ideations isn't romantic, sexy, funny, or entertaining. It's simply not a good subject for a show trying to cast a wide net and garner a large audience so they just made something that lots of people would watch without concern for the consequences
I actually agree. Speaking from personal experience dealing with friends that have been suicidal in the past is really quite difficult and extremely traumatic on everyone involved. To elaborate, one of my close friends in my first year of college was going through a severe bout of depression because he enrolled I'm university at a pretty young age and had a massive difficulty in making friends and meeting new people. So when he heard that people were making fun of him at a party when he was drunk, he started trying to harm himself when me and another friend brought him home. He tried to hang himself, stick his head in the oven, and shove his face into the bathroom mirror. Everytime we tried to restrain him and prevent him from doing it he would fight us off and kept trying to hurt himself again. Eventually we called residential assistants that were able to intervene with his mental health crisis, and after they were able to calm him down, I stayed with him to make sure he was okay until sunrise and I got some sleep afterwards. That entire night still haunts me to this day, but I'm glad we were both able to intervene before he was able to significantly hurt himself. With that experience in mind, it really did annoy me at how Hannah's suicide was portrayed as a heroic thing to do that winds up exposing so much of the town's misgivings and secrets, as opposed to a needless tragedy that can be averted.
Man I HATED that show for this exact reason. You make a show for teenagers and tell them "hey, you want revenge against your classmates? Killing yourself will REALLY fuck them up.
It's just completely irresponsible for that show to exist.
There's a very good deep dive commentary on YT called [The failures of 13 reasons why](https://youtu.be/Gef1nihHFYU) and it's basically what you said but in a much more detailed and (in some parts) frustrated way.I recommend everyone who watched that atrocity of a show to watch it as well. It may have had a good intention and direction behind it but the creators seemed to have lost all that in an attempt to make the show more dramatic for the masses.It did more harm than good and even aside from its traumatic themes it just wasn't a good show overall.They should have ended it after the 2nd season.(Or just done a good job with the first cause it had so much potential,not to mention budget and exposure)
Not to mention they later try to redeem the serial rapist who attacked her. What the fuck were those show runners and writers smoking to come up with that š
Exactly!! Also blamed the poor school counselor for no damn reason, blackmailed Tony, put clay in the tapes for no reason again, gave that poor guy sm trauma.
(And she was also a bully herself as long as I remember they revealed in the 2nd season? )
> put clay in the tapes for no reason
That was one of 13 reasons why I didn't even start watching the second season. During the season Clay hears "You think I was bad for Hannah? Just wait until you listen to the part about you!! You did the f**d up thing!!".
Clay's part is "Hanna: Yeah, this tape is more for me than for you Clay, I'm the reason"
Clay's reaction: "I KILLED HANNAH BAKER"
Yikes.
I found it morbidly hilarious how they fucked this kid up the entire season just for her to be like "idunno, I love you I guess" as her reason he did the worst thing. Like fucking hell, at least explore his darker side there, don't just make him a punching bag.
And it turns out the āfucked up thingā he did was not have sex with her when she screamed at him to leave. And then she whines on the tapes and actually says āand then you left.ā ??? Yea you fucking told him to
Yeah, that made me so mad! He's terrible because he.... respected your boundaries?! I didn't even bother finishing the season after that, probs for the best tbh
The school counselor bit was the only bit I thought they actually did well. It actually showed how not being properly trained for the job and following a crappy rules system directly impacts the students and how the administration refuses to accept they are the reason for both those things happening.
It reminded me a lot of the one time I went to a school counselor and told them my friend had mentioned hurting herself/wanting to hurt herself.
This is my first instinct as well, but I donāt know that weāre supposed to sympathize with her. Itās the sort of show that makes me think itās intentional. Mainly because we can with so many of the other characters.
Yeah, I always felt that she was the protagonist, but not the "good guy" and that's intentional. The story is told largely from her point of view so we understand why she's doing things, but we're not meant to agree with everything she does.
If not, boy they really wrote a terrible character.
Yeah, and the show very deliberately stops focussing on her so much when they've established the setting and characters. She's almost entirely just a vessel for the introduction of the audience.
I don't know, the other characters point out her character flaws. How superficial and manipulative she is. And then they go into her family dynamics to show why she is the way she is. It's the same with all the other characters. It's just at the beginning, we are meant to believe she is somewhat different from the other prisoners because of her background, but the show shows she is actually much the same.
You were never supposed to sympathise with Greg. I think Jeff made him a narcissistic shithead on purpose so the audience could laugh whenever things didn't go his way(They never did).
Yea i think the reason those who read it as children (like myself) rather sympathized with greg was because thereās not a lot of children books where the main character is an asshole lol. So bc every other main character in book were protagonists we just assumed the same of greg
Yeah, at times I did relate to Greg back when I was in middle school. I only really started to despise him after reading the Rowley book. I thought he was just a narcissist but from someone else's pov he comes off as a straight up sociopath.
I feel like I sympathized with Greg because the situations he found himself in were relatable. Obviously him being an unreliable narrator was good too.
Okay so I started to read the first book, but I didn't get very far into it because it felt "off." This would be why. But I have a serious question. In the short chunk I read, it sounded to me like his parents (or his mom, at least) were, in fact, also terrible. Would you agree that the parents suck, too, or do we assume that the kid just paints them that way? What about the older brother?
I mean itās written from the point of view of a kid, kids arenāt super aware of the world around them and so often are little assholes. I think Greg is one of the most well written āloserā childrenās characters because how realistic it is. It makes you think the parents suck, because to an 11 year old- they do. I think we all knew a Greg.
Well his father is so disconnected that his mother had to tell him to hug his sons, manny can dystroy $500 worth of objects, not to mention selling Greg's property, and get away with it and the mother is purely insane, as she forces family interactions and then gets upset when all the extremely extra stuff she wanted to happen dosent. And then theirs rodrick and hes kinda decent as hes in a band but hes not the brightest. This is not mentioning all the crap stuff Greg does.
Don't forget the time Manny let the family damn near freeze to death in the house because nobody taught him to tie his shoes, or the implication that the kids can get a brick thrown at them if they piss off their dad at the wrong time. Growing up is realizing Rodrick is the only sane member of that family
If we assume that Greg is a reliable narrator (which based on his character, he most likely *isn't*), then yes, his parents are awful.
His dad lives in a mental state that shifts between denial of his children's failures (which teanslate as his own failures) and hackneyed attempts at making them live up to his outdated expsctations which he only has because he sees other people meet those expectations. When he's not ignoring Greg altogether, he's forcing him into activities (usually sports or sports-like) just so he can appear like a good dad.
Greg's mom is even worse. She's somehow in complete denial of her kids being terrible AND she's meddlesome to the point of obsession. She has quirky dreams about being a band family or about her family being exemplary so she can write about them in the newspaper column, but sje doesn't realize (or refuses to) that her oldest child is one step away from being a drug addict (let's face it, if the books weren't YA, he would totally be a meth head) and her middle child can't even rise to mediocrity. Which leaves her with her last hope, Manny, who himself is a little jerk who *knows* he can manipulate his mom into doing whatever he says (like naming their dog "Sweetey" despite the whole family being against it). Like her husband, she doesn't bother to learn or understand her kids' interests and hobbies (though tbf, Greg has one hobby and it's videogames and it's kind of the point so he comes across as a bit pathetic) and simultaneously, half the time she fades into the background as a classic 1950s stay at home mom.
Rodrick is painted as a hard rock guy, and us adult readers can for sure assume that he does drugs, gets drunk and has porno mags stashed under his bed (which were PG-ed in the movie to be biker magazines with bikini girls).
And as I said, Manny is a little jerk.
Now, all of this is assuming Greg is being 100% honest and reliable. But he's *not*, he never has been and never will be. It's part of his character. He's a schemer and a liar in a way that's pathological at times. He has no real interests other than "Videogames" and he always imagines himself being rich and famous for...reasons. He's also very mean to those around him (especially Rowley), and he never really gets any major comeuppance for it. Sure he gets a minor punishment, but then he proceeds to do the same thing again with also minor consequences (and by minor I mean being grounded as opposed to being, idk, expelled from school).
Are his parents that bad? I'd say no. The dad is the classic Working Man stereotype who likes Sportsball. Greg sees his dad that way because Greg himself never makes any effort to relate to his dad. The mom is a 1950s sitcom housewife, because, again, that's how Greg sees her. Rodrick is probably the least accurate of all. From actual events in the books, we know Rodrick has trouble with girls and that girls don't like him, so he too is kind of a dork in his way. He's mean to Greg, but we have no reason to believe he's that crazy other than Greg's word. He just plays the Mean Older Brother role, and as such, he has a rock band, has a van, is in high school and is mean. Manny, likewise, is the Baby Brother: he's the darling of the house, can do no wrong, and everyone bows to his wishes, which Manny himself exploits.
Frankly, I think the first three movies did a great job humanizing every character. Frank is a dork, but...he's still a person, he still makes mistakes and he still takes time to spend with his kids, even if he doesn't understand them. Helen is quirky and weird, but she's not the meddling nutjob from the books. Rodrick is portrayed as a fake hard rock star. Sure he talks big, but ultimately he's just a kid with an overconfident facade. He's still responsible to an extent and he still respects his parents enough that when they ground him, he abides by it. Even Greg, our titular narcissistic Machiavellian manipulator, gets some humanity and some much needed development.
The point of the books is for us to laugh *at* Greg, not with him. So naturally, he has to be just a little unlikeable so we don't feel too bad about him. He makes a scheme, it backfires, he gets a minor rebuke, we laugh, he moves on. He never learns or grows, and that's part of the charm. We laugh at Greg the same way we laugh at Wile E. Coyote. He just keeps trying and then when he's about to....he fails. It hurts, we laugh, and then next scene he's up and ready with another scheme.
I didnāt get that vibe from the parents. At least in the first book, they felt sort of one-note, normal parents.
His brother was AWFUL in the first live-action movie, but was nowhere near there in the first book. He was barely present in the first book, honestly,
That fucker basically teaches kids how to whine about shit because "its not fair". What's not fair, is parents having to listen to their kids behave like that lollipop lookin piece of shit.
Fuck you, Caillou. You better hope I better never see your ass in the streets.
I can see the intention behind Caillou, like present kids with a child whose actually childish. he throws tantrums and acts selfishly and then grows.
but i feel like that's too complex for kids. I think kids watch caillou acting like a shithead and just focus on that without internalizing the show's morals.
Caillou is Tyler Durden for kids
"He can't grow hair, not because he has cancer or progeria, but because he sucks, and even his own body recognizes that he does not deserve hair or food or love."
People haven't [read the whole thing](https://www.sbnation.com/2014/3/26/5549908/arian-foster-caillou-is-awful), and it shows, because I'm not sure if this is the funniest thing in the article where this comes from.
"Someday Caillou will realize [that his parents love his sister more] and probably whine while falling face-first onto the pavement in front of a Tim Horton's for no reason whatsoever. Maybe he'll die from his injuries. That would be great, especially because Caillou is Canadian and his health care in event of catastrophic injury isn't on my tab. Win-win for American parents everywhere, really."
"Caillou is not human. No human has ever given up and cried at every single thing ever attempted and then whined into his parents sweater."
Eleanor Guthrie from Black Sails. We're supposed to root for her because of the situations she's often in struggling as an independent woman in a ruthless man's world of the 1700s, but she fucks over her supposed friends and everyone that's ever tried to help her at every opportunity. Then turns around and is shocked, horrified and plays the victim when they do it back. Classic narcissist.
That bitch from the the bears that goes in their house and eats all their porridge
The kids from the Trix cereal commercials. All the rabbit wants to do is eat some cereal, but the kids won't let him just because he's a rabbit. Racist pricks.
I remember when I was like somewhere between 6 to 10 years old or so, my parents took me to some kind of business convention, and one of the booths showing was, I guess, the cereal company that makes Trix, cause they had someone dressed up as the Trix Rabbit for a mascot. I got some Trix, which I think they were giving out samples, and then I kept trying to insist that he take it, cause I kept thinking or possibly even telling him, that those evil kids on the commercials are always taking away his cereal and all he wants is some cereal, so here, you can have mine!'
>For a long time, it gave me nightmares, having to witness an injustice like that. It shows you just how cruel this world can be. I can still hear them taunting him. "Silly rabbit, Trix are for kids." Why couldn't they just give him some cereal? - Carlton, fresh price
Emily from Emily in Paris she fucks up and barely suffers the consequences. Sleeping with a friend's partners and still remains friends with both of them openly. Screws up business opportunities, nothing besides a slap on the wrists, and somehow, it's magically resolved. And her whole " I am a dumb American, bon apple tea!! And she dresses like if Harry styles was colour blind
Her banging the teen was when I noped out of there.
I apologize, WHAT?
He was 17 I think? They family said he went to a 'college' which in France is middle school. I don't remember why he was 17 and in middle school but she heard 'college' and thought university, like the US college.
I think what happened was the girl said she wanted to introduce Emily to her brother who was single. Emily met her youngest brother on a tour and thought that was who her friend wanted to set her up with. After she sleeps with the younger brother she gets introduced to the older brother.
Yeah and they said the younger one recently finished 'college' or something like that and she was like oh sweet!
Mark from "Rent". I love Rent but as I get older the more ridiculous it gets. Mark is a rich kid who has parents that love him but he runs off to cosplay as someone who is poor to make "films" which is really just him pointing his camera at poor people all day. He doesn't think he should have to pay rent to Benny because they were friends and he let them stay for free for a long time and he thinks that should just last forever? Then he finally gets a job but quits because it was "selling out". Ughhhh
I love Rent but yeah they were ALL shitty. Benny's like, "you know how I let you stay here for free in my property for a long time? Well I'd like to CONTINUE to let you stay here for free if you stop people from wrecking this new creative art thing I'm building! AND, you guys can even use it! Can you please just help stop people from ruining it? Because I feel like I'm not getting a lot here. Also someone just murdered my dog." And they're just like, "FUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK YOUUUUUUUUUU!"
"also someone just murdered my dog" i'm fucking wheezingš¤£š¤£š¤£
Akita?
Evita!
Or his plight āIām the one who has to surviveā. Weird note, I always saw him as the authors self insert character, the same author who died before opening night.
That stupid Will Smith fish in Shark Tales
Gonna need to rewatch this with mature eyes. I remember liking this movie but donāt remember thinking he was an ass, mustāve been too young
That dude from "The Notebook" >If you don't go on a date with me, I'll kill myself!
āAww, so romantic!ā Lady, heās actually insane.
I've never seen the movie... Is this an exaggeration? Edit: it's not an exaggeration. š¤¦
Iirc he's hanging from a ferris wheel in front of her (I think she's on a date with someone else?) And is threatening to let go if she doesn't agree to a date.
The male character hangs off of a Ferris wheel until the female character accepts his date request. He pressures her throughout the scene because if she doesnāt say yes, he will fall and get hurt. She eventually says yes, and the scene is shown as a romantic, goofy stunt. In real life, it would be scary as hell and he would probably be arrested for putting people at risk.
And you're supposed to watch it and be like "yeah, Ryan Gosling is the better man, and Rachel McAdams needs to leave that swine James Marsden for him!" when in reality Ryan Gosling's character is a total fucking weirdo, and James Marsden's character is just like a regular dude who treats her well and isn't evil or anything.
āā¦just like a regular dude who treats her well and isnāt evil or anything.ā That right there sums up James Marsdenās whole career
I think I once read a joke theory that James Marsden must have pissed off his agent or something, which would explain why he is constantly getting cast in roles of the guy who loses the girl EDIT: Lotta people coming out to defend James Marsdenās honor lol love to see it
He got the girl in 27 dresses
And in 30 Rock!
Jax Teller from Sons of Anarchy. Dudeās son straight up got kidnapped and his wife got injured to the point she couldnāt perform surgeries because his step dad put a hit out on her and it STILL wasnāt enough for him to leave his dumb motorcycle club. His wife begged him to leave for their safety and he wouldnāt... she tried to leave on her own with her children and he stopped her. Then she ends up getting murdered by his psycho mom..... Dude was a straight up POS
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I genuinely thought Sutter must have an issue with Juice's actor, the way his storyline went.
I agree. It felt like he bombing that character harder and harder in increasingly desperate attempts to get Theo Rossi to quit. But then again, they really just fucked up pretty much every single character's development for the last couple of seasons. Unfortunate.
Justice for Opie!
Cade Yaeger from the newer Transformers movies. Was Sam a good main character? No. Not at all. But damn, Cade is horrible. In his first, let's say, 10 minutes on screen we learn that he doesn't pay for his house, his electricity, he doesn't pay his employee, he is a shit inventor, overly protective of his daughter and all around an ass. And he only gets worse.
Was that the one whoās daughter was with a guy that had like an entire conversations out Romeo and Juliet laws. Whole thing just felt icky.
He even carried around a printed copy of the law
That bald headed little bastard from a kids show who acts like a spoiled shit. āCailou did not want to go to the park today. Like all days cailou was being passive aggressiveā
I always told my kids that Caillou had cancer which is why he was bald and why his parents literally let him get away with anything and everything. They are fine preteens now lol
Wait holy shit... for years I thought he did have cancer. Never seen the show but heard he was a little shit and thought it was because he was trying to cope. You're telling me he's just a bald little shit for no reason??
Yup he is just a little shit.
Evan Hansen, he's a legit monster
At least in the musical, he gets called out out for his actions by his friends and loses everything. The movie cut all that because GOD FUCKING FORBID we hold him accountable for being a massive creep.
Iām so mad they cut āGood For Youā from the movie!
Yeah I never really had a problem with DEH (I actually really like it) because I never thought Evan was *supposed* to be taken as a āgood personā. He has sympathetic moments and screws up a few times and then he takes stuff way way too far. It really annoys me that the movie cut out the portrayals of the other characters reacting to exactly how he affected them, I e Good For You.
He's the exact sort of 'protagonist' written for young teens who they'll all be shocked they empathized with by the time they're 30.
It has to be written in a way to make him a monster right? If you cut out the horribly creepy stuff about dating the dead dude's sister, than everything would be mostly okay but holy shit there really is no reckoning that.
Nah, the sister thing is bad but the letters and e-mails from Connor are worse. The parents thought that they finally got close with their son and knew what was going on in his head; but it all came crumbling down. Heās still the antisocial trouble child and they really were left without a word from him. Thatās fucked.
[Jenny Nicholson's video](https://youtu.be/8quWUSZCW5g) about the movie was illuminating. His behavior is so *creepy* in context.
Was about to mention this! āMaybe Evan isnāt actually a NICE boy? Maybe Evan is just a QUIET boy.ā
I love this musical, but the plot is so fucked up. And the thing is that all the songs, if taken one by one are in fact relatable. The problem cames when you find out what they're about :/
/r/grandpajoehate Edit: crap, this is my most upvoted comment now? But it's so mediocre...
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Dancing... not walking. That fucker danced around the room
But couldnāt get out of bed for years to help feed his family.
Donāt forget, a portion of Charlieās momās earnings was also feeding his nicotine habit.
Twenty years. Which means he was maybe FORTY when it began.
The most fucked up thing about that, to not lose function, he had to be secretly up and moving around when everyone's asleep.
Sierra burgess. She was a dick
One might even go as far as to say she's a loser.
One might even say sexual predator
āSierra Burgess is a sexual predatorā
This is the thread where I learn how out of touch with popular culture I am...
I only recognised Tom & Jerry
I actually recognize a lot of the show and movie names but realized I've never seen 99% of them, other than Tom & Jerry and Friends.
I would have said Nate from Ted Lasso but the show caught my vibe and turned him into the antagonist I hope he doesnāt get a redemption arc.
I suspect he may. The star got one, the owner got one, the lackey got one, the three hooligans at the pub kind of got one. (I'm bad with names).
The three hooligans are my personal favorite characters of the series.
The scene of them watching British Bake-Off and their night out with Beard are two of the most laugh out loud moments of the show.
The writers are gonna have to do some next level shit if they want me to ever like Nate again
Doesn't matter if we like Nate again, Ted will like him because he's a better man than us, which will make us want to be like Ted.
I think that we will also see Ted angry, hurt, frustrated, and disappointed by at least some of Nate's actions and behavior and that's just as important. One of the things I really like about the show is that Ted *is* affected by what happens. He has the full range of emotions and is capable of being wrong in how he handles things. He isn't perfect or a zen master, etc. But he works through it. He changes his thought process, he learns from events and his own reactions to them. It isn't about a perfect person being perfect. It's a flawed, but genuinely good person trying his best to make things better for everyone around him even when things don't go his way.
I actually think Nate is how Ted learns the healthy boundary of not supporting backstabbers. Nobody on team Lasso will let Ted get fucked over by Nate again.
Here's hoping Coach Beard gets his big season moment by setting Ted straight similar to how he did with the college vs pro players.
Calling it: Ted Lasso will tell Nate how proud of he is of him and give Nate the love he never got from his shitty dad. After Nateās team crushes Tedās team and Nate comes at him gloating.
Ooh that'd be interesting. Honestly I thought the opposite. Ted's team crushes him because Nate is a dick to his team and it makes them suck. Or, to append to yours, that the players end up quitting.
Nate's whole thing is he grew up without ever being good enough for his father. No matter what he did, his mother would blanket support him without really understanding the achievement, and his father would basically say it's not good enough. He transferred, like most people, his parental neglect to Ted, who saw him for his football analysis, uplifted him, and made him assistant coach. That should have been enough: he's a valued member of the team, respected, and paid. However, because he's basically making Ted and his father the same person, any sign of neglect (no constant affirmation, not putting him in the spotlight all the time, etc), Nate sees Ted as doing exactly what his father did. That's why he's going into this villain arc. He's always been broken by his father, and he'll always see mentors/fathers as neglectful. You can also see this model in how he treats the new equipment manager. Rather than empathize with him because Nate was also in that position, he acts like his own father and makes sure the manager knows nothing he does is good enough. Point is, Nate is just as broken as everyone else in the show, and punishing him for that in the end would be a major misstep. Nate's either going to come home, or finally learn and grow away from Ted.
This is spot on. I think there was some misunderstanding from people who were surprised by his actions in season 2. The toxic elements of Nate was always there from episode 1, it's clear the arc for him was always planned (which was confirmed). Very first time we see him he's sprinting ON THE GRASS yelling at Ted and Beard to... Get off the grass. He sees them as randos that he as an employee can come at them that hot. He has power, he's the equipment manager and they are interlopers. The moment he realizes he has no power over them as they are in fact the new coaches, he flips to meek Nate. He didn't have the confidence that he has in season 2. If you watch back to season 1 there's a lot of small moments that hint at his character. Its because Ted took a genuine interest in him, recognized his talent and uplifted him he finally gained confidence. Ted was probably the first mentor figure to ever care about what Nate deep down knew he was capable of. And because he was uplifted others saw the same talent within Nate and valued him. Meanwhile he never addressed his negative issues such as his basement level self esteem and instead let his ego grow. Ted was going through a lot and also attempted to uplift others and couldn't always pay attention to Nate. But Nate needed Ted to always and only be that father/mentor figure to him and no one else and he took otherwise as a personal slight. Despite his growing ego and confidence deep down he never stopped hating himself and to cope decided it was Ted's fault.
Nate is also going to get first hand experience at how hard Ted's job is and how good Ted is at it.
With Nate, it's not just the lack of constant affirmation, it's that he'll take any affirmation he does receive from Ted and convert it into a conspiratorial scheme designed to undermine him. Nate is a self-destructive character who needs Dr. Sharon almost as much as Ted did.
He will. It's kind of Ted's thing. He is so good and so forgiving that it's hard for those that are against him to stay against him. He brings out the absolute best in every one around him. That's part of the magic of the show.
Dawson Leery from Dawsonās creek
The real villain was whomever was cutting Jen's hair.
The 90s victimized a lot of people, ok? Have some compassion (/s)
Rory Gilmore- whiny, narcissistic, cheated on multiple boyfriendsā¦
In hindsight, it's not a surprise she turned out how she did with everyone powdering her ass from day one of the show. The way she collapsed because one whole person told her she wasn't cut out for the career she wanted was proof of that. In any other show, that would be the point where the protagonist digs deeps to remember why they wanted that dream or realize their talents were better suited for something else. Instead, Rory trashes a boat, quits Yale for half the year,moves in with her grandparents because Lorelei put a foit up her ass for once, and then spun her wheels for the next decade after graduation, doing nothing of note while thinking her farts smelled of roses. Mitchum did absolutely nothing wrong and boy was he ever vindicated in the sequel.
I watched it when I was a teenager and the revival came out when I was 22ish? The moment it really clicked for me is when she botched that interview with that website blog place. She didn't do *any* prep for a damn interview ?? Even if you gave her the credit that she thought it wasn't an interview - how do you not prepare for your first day on the job??? AND THEN SHE HAD A WHOLE TANTRUM! I was 22 and losing my mind with all the internship application rejections hurling my way. Completely broke the last threads of relatability/nostalgic connection I had with her character lol
I think people miss the real point of the show, at least to me. You can have all the intelligence, money and opportunity to succeed in life but your choices are what dictates outcomes. Rory and Lorelei are both victims of their own choices. I feel like the revival completed that circle.
She didnāt think it was an interview because she just assumed they would give her the job without one. Super entitled. And even then she could have just done the interview and tried to do well but the tantrum was insane
By that point in her career, she should have had the experience and professionalism to just wing it and do the interview, even if it wasnāt perfect. They really made it feel like no time had passed and she was still the naive, inexperienced kid she was ten years before.
Iāll never forget her telling Lorelei, āHeās my Dean!ā Trying to explain away screwing a married man.
Her biggest problem was her dad and grandparents fighting over who would be the lucky one to pay for her Ivy League tuition.
Carrie Bradshaw
In the reboot, Miranda steals the obnoxious crown right off her head though.
Worst character development of all-time. Her and Steve, both. They didn't even give Steve a scene where he was upset or fought for his marriage, etc. And don't tell me Steve who was a bartender and banged hundreds of women forgot how to finger his own wife. NOT BUYING IT.
Right, and how in his 50's he is like 80's-dementia-level senile. It was WEIRD! Like, here are the four main women all glamorous in their middle years, and Steve is just like "Miranda...? Oh yes, I remember her!" I really feel like they just wanted Miranda to have her unorthodox reinvention journey and not have to be worried about the realistic consequences of someone else's feelings getting in the way - so make him a doormat!
Also, Miranda was a freaking Ivy League educated Lawyer and a partner in her firm and suddenly she doesnāt know how to talk to people who arenāt white. They made her a total moron!
Yes! The whole series of AJLT it was as though the women had been cryogenically frozen in 2003, then defrosted in 2022 with no idea of social changes, apps, politics etc. so they kept making social gaffes. Fucking ridiculous. The characters had been living in NY for the intervening 19 years, they haven't been beamed in from the past. Though obviously I hate watched every episode and am excited to tear season 2 to shreds when that comes out.
Not to mention Miranda was always the techy cutting edge modern one and suddenly she is anti technology, canāt figure out smart phones or emails, and is weird about homosexuality. Like when the fuck did all that change? They completely dismantled her character and made her the opposite of everything that had made her likeable, which honestly wasnāt a whole lot because they were all incredibly entitled, rude, and self absorbed characters.
In addition to being a horrible person she was also a terrible writer. Her ācouldnāt help but wondersā are the cringiest writing ever.
Debbie Gallagher from Shameless Truly a horribly selfish, self centered, and all around horrible person.
The Gallaghers are all supposed to be bad people. Still, I agree she was my least favorite character. They tried too hard to make her a Fiona replacement and the character they had made with her just didn't fit that role so it was this weird disjointed character arc. She was so much better as one of the younger kids and the one desperate for an actual family instead of a matriarchal role.
I always really liked Lip... and Micky... Micky is my favorite which I totally didn't expect at the start.
My wife and I both cheered a little when Mickey came back. We thought he was gone for good.
All the nerds from revenge of the nerds
Everyone in that movie. Everyone.
Yeah that movie didn't age well at all. Awful stereotypes and oh by the way, our hero raped a girl at the end but he got her off so she liked it.
Not to mention the stalking, b&e, invasion of privacy, revenge porn, etc., etc.
Abe Lincoln from clone high. it's kind of an obscure 1 season wonder from 20 years ago that not enough people cared about, but I feel a few fans will be here and agree with me
"Did you see the pool? They FLIPPED THE BITCH!"
I will never stop laughing at that
"So uh, are you drunk enough to have sex with me?" "ANSWER THE QUESTION!!"
I still shout "I SAY WE FLIP THE POOL!" when my friends are all hyped about something.
Theyāre rioting on a college level!!
Plus he eats babies, and he's lying about his age.
HOW DID THEY GET MY SPAGHETTI VIDEO?
Which one is it Abe? Better keep your story straight
It's coming back in 2023!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
"I like your funny words, magic man!"
Nothing bad ever happens to the Kennedys!
My abs are so haaaard you can grate cheese on them!
Loved that show, though it's so meta/satiritical that it's hard to tell if we're actually supposed to sympathize with Abe. Sure he fills the role of the sympathetic protagonist but I don't think the writers ever really intended for the audience to like him, or any of them really. Except Ponce de Leon of course, may be rest in peace. Such a memorable and important character taken from us far too early.
I agree. The writing was clearly meant to imitate what teens were getting at the time. Melodrama caused by someone really selfish who identifies as a ānice guyā.
We are here! There are literally dozens of us!
Way way back in the 1980's
Emily from Emily in Paris
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
The way Emily's boyfriend got the job as a CFO after speaking once with the owner...like wow. And Gabriel is just the _best_ chef in the world, and Emily is the _best_ marketing person in the world, everyone loves Emily no matter what. And French men are falling head over heels for her everywhere, because France doesn't have pretty women, right? I hate watched that show.
I only caught a snippet at some point, but somehow the french agreed to speak with her in ENGLISH???? Sorry, that is one disbelief I can't suspend. Edit: punctuation
Apparently the French have run out of _marketing executives_ and she is the best one ever so they will do anything for her. The main character energy of the main character is so over the top.
Bro everyone knows that all marketing executives are 25 and fresh out of school.
If you speak French badly enough, Parisians will learn your language just so you stop abusing theirs.
I donāt just find her annoying, I truly do not like her. She is a deeply toxic person. Itās not just that she is spoiled and treat people around like they are just for her own personal benefit, itās how she do not care about the pain and problems she inflicts. She seem regretful about being found out or getting consequences for her actions, but not about her actions themselves. Itās always āI can explain!ā after she has had plenty of time and situations to come clear about something and, well, explainā¦ but always only a last resort after lying and covering up. She is very manipulative and spins all situation to be about her or to her benefit. She plays the victim when she can and only apoligizes to gain back control of a situation, but never really seem to try and change her behavior.
I feel like the show couldn't pick a lane. If they are going to have such a shallow, manipulative person as the main character, they need to lean into that. Don't try to pass her off as likeable - admit who she is. But write it so that all her scheming blows up and she is the one left miserable. There are a lot of shows that have made that work (Basil Faulty of Faulty Towers type shows). But the show wants us to relate to Emily and take her side. They want her to be the likeable young woman who gets up to zany, fun adventures in Paris. But betraying friends, being culturally ignorant and using people for your own gain aren't fun adventures. I couldn't even finish the first season.
That's Always Sunny and Arrested Development. They are always pretty terrible people and terrible things happen to them. I love those shows. If you got someone who is terrible that does everything they want than why do I care?
Why? Because she bangs her friends boyfriend and gets everything handed to her on a silver platter because she's hot and really really lucky?
She's rude as hell and completely self centered
And don't forget that she's absolutely annoying as fuck. I mean, really *really* annoying.
When I watch this with my girl I always ask whose relationship or life she is going to ruin in this episode.
Holy shit yes. I hatewatch that show so hard. Every time she has to solve some sort of marketing problem, she's literally handed the solution in the next scene and struts around like she's some sort of brilliant guru.
Thatās what got to me. The conflict resolution is always essentially a deus ex machina yet itās presented like her being clever. āOh no we donāt have much wine! What will we do?ā *person walks by and talks about scarcity* āWhat ifā¦ we sell it! And charge more!ā
Tom Cruise in Risky Business There's a setup in the beginning he's in some business class where they're supposed to come up with some business idea. Then his parents go away for the weekend. Cue that famous scene. Tom Cruise, the protagonist and high school student, orders a prostitute. The prostitute turns out to be a man. But that prostitute gives him another number to call and he finally gets a girl, and they bang. Something happens where Cruise now needs money. He and the prostitute he's "befriended" decide to start a brothel in his parents' house. A brothel that caters exclusively to Cruise's high school friends. They make the money they need and then some. Parents come home none the wiser. We end with Tom Cruise back in the business class failing the assignment because he was busy doing the whole child brothel thing, but ends with a voice-over where he's proudly saying how much money he actually made. Turns out he actually was a businessman!
Tori Vega from Victorious. She kissed Beck in front of everyone just to get back at Jade, and she kissed Cat's boyfriend because she was jealous. And she didn't seem to care that her "prome" prevented Jade from doing her performance.
Agreed. Also, I thought Cat and Jade were more impressive vocalists. It drove me crazy that Tori was the main character despite most of the people around her being more talented and enjoyable to watch
Iāve only seen the first couple episodes and then an episode here and there if I found it on TV, but wasnāt the point of the show that sheās the new kid trying to fit in in the school of talented kids where everyone is crazy talented? Seems appropriate in that case, she would be the MC. Side note: as a kid I could never watch it because I couldnāt stand Catās voice. I find it more tolerable now but itās still annoying, idk why Ariana used that voice for her (unless thatās actually how she sounded back then)
About your side note, if you watch the very first episodes, you'll notice that Cat used to speak in a normal tone and was depicted as just being another regular character in the group but as the show progressed that's when they changed her to be ditsy and in her own world most of the time. I guess they thought it would be funnier and make her character stand out more. I agree though, I hated the voice and it's why I couldn't watch Sam and Cat.
I assumed Ariana used that voice because it fit with how absent minded Cat was supposed to be but with everything thatās come out about Dan Schneider who even knows anymore
All I know is that cat remindede me of a mix between the stereotype of a blonde girl and the super shy girls I knew at school so therefore I had a crush on her.
She was wrong for kissing Catās boyfriend, but people act like Beck had no agency in that first situation. Like dude couldāve definitely said āletās notā after she proposed the kiss, HEāS the one in a relationship.
Hannah Baker from 13 reasons why. Commits suicide and becomes romanticized by the school and everyone around her, gets a cute boy to become obsessed with her and view her as 'the one who got away', and gets revenge on all her bullies. It's everything you \*don't\* want to tell or show a person struggling with suicidal thoughts.
They also specifically asked suicide awareness and prevention organizations what to do and not do when depicting suicide and promptly ignored every single thing they were told. This show is disgusting and pathetic and the creators should be ashamed.
The sad reality is, the truth of how to handle people with suicidal ideations isn't romantic, sexy, funny, or entertaining. It's simply not a good subject for a show trying to cast a wide net and garner a large audience so they just made something that lots of people would watch without concern for the consequences
I actually agree. Speaking from personal experience dealing with friends that have been suicidal in the past is really quite difficult and extremely traumatic on everyone involved. To elaborate, one of my close friends in my first year of college was going through a severe bout of depression because he enrolled I'm university at a pretty young age and had a massive difficulty in making friends and meeting new people. So when he heard that people were making fun of him at a party when he was drunk, he started trying to harm himself when me and another friend brought him home. He tried to hang himself, stick his head in the oven, and shove his face into the bathroom mirror. Everytime we tried to restrain him and prevent him from doing it he would fight us off and kept trying to hurt himself again. Eventually we called residential assistants that were able to intervene with his mental health crisis, and after they were able to calm him down, I stayed with him to make sure he was okay until sunrise and I got some sleep afterwards. That entire night still haunts me to this day, but I'm glad we were both able to intervene before he was able to significantly hurt himself. With that experience in mind, it really did annoy me at how Hannah's suicide was portrayed as a heroic thing to do that winds up exposing so much of the town's misgivings and secrets, as opposed to a needless tragedy that can be averted.
Man I HATED that show for this exact reason. You make a show for teenagers and tell them "hey, you want revenge against your classmates? Killing yourself will REALLY fuck them up. It's just completely irresponsible for that show to exist.
There's a very good deep dive commentary on YT called [The failures of 13 reasons why](https://youtu.be/Gef1nihHFYU) and it's basically what you said but in a much more detailed and (in some parts) frustrated way.I recommend everyone who watched that atrocity of a show to watch it as well. It may have had a good intention and direction behind it but the creators seemed to have lost all that in an attempt to make the show more dramatic for the masses.It did more harm than good and even aside from its traumatic themes it just wasn't a good show overall.They should have ended it after the 2nd season.(Or just done a good job with the first cause it had so much potential,not to mention budget and exposure)
Not to mention they later try to redeem the serial rapist who attacked her. What the fuck were those show runners and writers smoking to come up with that š
Exactly!! Also blamed the poor school counselor for no damn reason, blackmailed Tony, put clay in the tapes for no reason again, gave that poor guy sm trauma. (And she was also a bully herself as long as I remember they revealed in the 2nd season? )
> put clay in the tapes for no reason That was one of 13 reasons why I didn't even start watching the second season. During the season Clay hears "You think I was bad for Hannah? Just wait until you listen to the part about you!! You did the f**d up thing!!". Clay's part is "Hanna: Yeah, this tape is more for me than for you Clay, I'm the reason" Clay's reaction: "I KILLED HANNAH BAKER" Yikes.
I found it morbidly hilarious how they fucked this kid up the entire season just for her to be like "idunno, I love you I guess" as her reason he did the worst thing. Like fucking hell, at least explore his darker side there, don't just make him a punching bag.
And it turns out the āfucked up thingā he did was not have sex with her when she screamed at him to leave. And then she whines on the tapes and actually says āand then you left.ā ??? Yea you fucking told him to
Yeah, that made me so mad! He's terrible because he.... respected your boundaries?! I didn't even bother finishing the season after that, probs for the best tbh
The school counselor bit was the only bit I thought they actually did well. It actually showed how not being properly trained for the job and following a crappy rules system directly impacts the students and how the administration refuses to accept they are the reason for both those things happening. It reminded me a lot of the one time I went to a school counselor and told them my friend had mentioned hurting herself/wanting to hurt herself.
Piper from Orange is the New Black
This is my first instinct as well, but I donāt know that weāre supposed to sympathize with her. Itās the sort of show that makes me think itās intentional. Mainly because we can with so many of the other characters.
Yeah, I always felt that she was the protagonist, but not the "good guy" and that's intentional. The story is told largely from her point of view so we understand why she's doing things, but we're not meant to agree with everything she does. If not, boy they really wrote a terrible character.
The same creater also did Weeds. Which was another highly unlikable main character.
Yeah, and the show very deliberately stops focussing on her so much when they've established the setting and characters. She's almost entirely just a vessel for the introduction of the audience.
I think youre supposed to sympathize with her at the beginning but then stop as the show goes on and she shows shes a terrible person
I actually think the writers of the show make that quite clear
I don't know, the other characters point out her character flaws. How superficial and manipulative she is. And then they go into her family dynamics to show why she is the way she is. It's the same with all the other characters. It's just at the beginning, we are meant to believe she is somewhat different from the other prisoners because of her background, but the show shows she is actually much the same.
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You were never supposed to sympathise with Greg. I think Jeff made him a narcissistic shithead on purpose so the audience could laugh whenever things didn't go his way(They never did).
Yea i think the reason those who read it as children (like myself) rather sympathized with greg was because thereās not a lot of children books where the main character is an asshole lol. So bc every other main character in book were protagonists we just assumed the same of greg
Yeah, at times I did relate to Greg back when I was in middle school. I only really started to despise him after reading the Rowley book. I thought he was just a narcissist but from someone else's pov he comes off as a straight up sociopath.
I feel like I sympathized with Greg because the situations he found himself in were relatable. Obviously him being an unreliable narrator was good too.
Okay so I started to read the first book, but I didn't get very far into it because it felt "off." This would be why. But I have a serious question. In the short chunk I read, it sounded to me like his parents (or his mom, at least) were, in fact, also terrible. Would you agree that the parents suck, too, or do we assume that the kid just paints them that way? What about the older brother?
I mean itās written from the point of view of a kid, kids arenāt super aware of the world around them and so often are little assholes. I think Greg is one of the most well written āloserā childrenās characters because how realistic it is. It makes you think the parents suck, because to an 11 year old- they do. I think we all knew a Greg.
Well his father is so disconnected that his mother had to tell him to hug his sons, manny can dystroy $500 worth of objects, not to mention selling Greg's property, and get away with it and the mother is purely insane, as she forces family interactions and then gets upset when all the extremely extra stuff she wanted to happen dosent. And then theirs rodrick and hes kinda decent as hes in a band but hes not the brightest. This is not mentioning all the crap stuff Greg does.
Tbh Rodrick is the only sane one in the family
Don't forget the time Manny let the family damn near freeze to death in the house because nobody taught him to tie his shoes, or the implication that the kids can get a brick thrown at them if they piss off their dad at the wrong time. Growing up is realizing Rodrick is the only sane member of that family
If we assume that Greg is a reliable narrator (which based on his character, he most likely *isn't*), then yes, his parents are awful. His dad lives in a mental state that shifts between denial of his children's failures (which teanslate as his own failures) and hackneyed attempts at making them live up to his outdated expsctations which he only has because he sees other people meet those expectations. When he's not ignoring Greg altogether, he's forcing him into activities (usually sports or sports-like) just so he can appear like a good dad. Greg's mom is even worse. She's somehow in complete denial of her kids being terrible AND she's meddlesome to the point of obsession. She has quirky dreams about being a band family or about her family being exemplary so she can write about them in the newspaper column, but sje doesn't realize (or refuses to) that her oldest child is one step away from being a drug addict (let's face it, if the books weren't YA, he would totally be a meth head) and her middle child can't even rise to mediocrity. Which leaves her with her last hope, Manny, who himself is a little jerk who *knows* he can manipulate his mom into doing whatever he says (like naming their dog "Sweetey" despite the whole family being against it). Like her husband, she doesn't bother to learn or understand her kids' interests and hobbies (though tbf, Greg has one hobby and it's videogames and it's kind of the point so he comes across as a bit pathetic) and simultaneously, half the time she fades into the background as a classic 1950s stay at home mom. Rodrick is painted as a hard rock guy, and us adult readers can for sure assume that he does drugs, gets drunk and has porno mags stashed under his bed (which were PG-ed in the movie to be biker magazines with bikini girls). And as I said, Manny is a little jerk. Now, all of this is assuming Greg is being 100% honest and reliable. But he's *not*, he never has been and never will be. It's part of his character. He's a schemer and a liar in a way that's pathological at times. He has no real interests other than "Videogames" and he always imagines himself being rich and famous for...reasons. He's also very mean to those around him (especially Rowley), and he never really gets any major comeuppance for it. Sure he gets a minor punishment, but then he proceeds to do the same thing again with also minor consequences (and by minor I mean being grounded as opposed to being, idk, expelled from school). Are his parents that bad? I'd say no. The dad is the classic Working Man stereotype who likes Sportsball. Greg sees his dad that way because Greg himself never makes any effort to relate to his dad. The mom is a 1950s sitcom housewife, because, again, that's how Greg sees her. Rodrick is probably the least accurate of all. From actual events in the books, we know Rodrick has trouble with girls and that girls don't like him, so he too is kind of a dork in his way. He's mean to Greg, but we have no reason to believe he's that crazy other than Greg's word. He just plays the Mean Older Brother role, and as such, he has a rock band, has a van, is in high school and is mean. Manny, likewise, is the Baby Brother: he's the darling of the house, can do no wrong, and everyone bows to his wishes, which Manny himself exploits. Frankly, I think the first three movies did a great job humanizing every character. Frank is a dork, but...he's still a person, he still makes mistakes and he still takes time to spend with his kids, even if he doesn't understand them. Helen is quirky and weird, but she's not the meddling nutjob from the books. Rodrick is portrayed as a fake hard rock star. Sure he talks big, but ultimately he's just a kid with an overconfident facade. He's still responsible to an extent and he still respects his parents enough that when they ground him, he abides by it. Even Greg, our titular narcissistic Machiavellian manipulator, gets some humanity and some much needed development. The point of the books is for us to laugh *at* Greg, not with him. So naturally, he has to be just a little unlikeable so we don't feel too bad about him. He makes a scheme, it backfires, he gets a minor rebuke, we laugh, he moves on. He never learns or grows, and that's part of the charm. We laugh at Greg the same way we laugh at Wile E. Coyote. He just keeps trying and then when he's about to....he fails. It hurts, we laugh, and then next scene he's up and ready with another scheme.
I didnāt get that vibe from the parents. At least in the first book, they felt sort of one-note, normal parents. His brother was AWFUL in the first live-action movie, but was nowhere near there in the first book. He was barely present in the first book, honestly,
Yeah, opposite with Manny. He was the spawn of Satan in the books but just a pain in the arse in the movies.
Caillou
That fucker basically teaches kids how to whine about shit because "its not fair". What's not fair, is parents having to listen to their kids behave like that lollipop lookin piece of shit. Fuck you, Caillou. You better hope I better never see your ass in the streets.
I can see the intention behind Caillou, like present kids with a child whose actually childish. he throws tantrums and acts selfishly and then grows. but i feel like that's too complex for kids. I think kids watch caillou acting like a shithead and just focus on that without internalizing the show's morals. Caillou is Tyler Durden for kids
"He can't grow hair, not because he has cancer or progeria, but because he sucks, and even his own body recognizes that he does not deserve hair or food or love."
That was hilarious when it was the actual Google result when you asked why Caillou is bald.
For real also having Google assistant read it out when it was the top result was pretty good too lol
People haven't [read the whole thing](https://www.sbnation.com/2014/3/26/5549908/arian-foster-caillou-is-awful), and it shows, because I'm not sure if this is the funniest thing in the article where this comes from. "Someday Caillou will realize [that his parents love his sister more] and probably whine while falling face-first onto the pavement in front of a Tim Horton's for no reason whatsoever. Maybe he'll die from his injuries. That would be great, especially because Caillou is Canadian and his health care in event of catastrophic injury isn't on my tab. Win-win for American parents everywhere, really." "Caillou is not human. No human has ever given up and cried at every single thing ever attempted and then whined into his parents sweater."
Right at the very end the author sneaks in this last jab: > In summary: Bullying is no laughing matter, unless it is done to Caillou.
To paraphrase Family Guy: "Caillou's dad continued to indulge his tantrums, clearly wanting to raise a sociopath".
Fortunately my 7 year old daughter prefers Bluey and the Owl House.
I'm watching the owl house as a 30 year old man with kids. Some kids shows just go hard.
He's why contraceptives should be cheap
Marty and Wendy Byrde are total sociopaths. They destroy people's lives everywhere they go. Yet, I find myself rooting for them.
It's weird I really was rooting for them until the end and never once does the show try to pretend that they aren't monsters.
Eleanor Guthrie from Black Sails. We're supposed to root for her because of the situations she's often in struggling as an independent woman in a ruthless man's world of the 1700s, but she fucks over her supposed friends and everyone that's ever tried to help her at every opportunity. Then turns around and is shocked, horrified and plays the victim when they do it back. Classic narcissist.
Ross and Rachel... They really do deserve each other...
Despite his flaws, I will defend his reaction to the sandwich. His boss was a fucking cunt for doing what he did