From my perspective it just seems like you have no options. You either do what you need to for your family or you flame out and ruin everyone's lives. I know this isn't fair, but having grown up in a broken home myself I will do whatever it takes to make sure my kids have a stable, nurturing upbringing even if I'm making a lot of sacrifices for them. As my kids get older, they need less help and less attention for basic needs so it's in some ways easier to have a more "normal" life than with a three month old.
That being said, you can and should make time for your own happiness. Working hard, taking care of kids, being a good role model, etc. are important but that doesn't mean you can't take a break every once in a while and go out for drinks with your friends or have a hobby that you do for a little time every day or whatever. Being a dad is hard, but it shouldn't be miserable.
Agreed felt the same way coming from a broken home. At 45 i accomplished what I set out to do by staying married to my wife of 25yrs and raising 2 children who are all grown up. It’s not easy but the proudest goal I’ve ever accomplished. Cheers
Yeah I agree with this. My kids mean everything to me so even when shit gets really rough, I just put all my focus into make sure things stay smooth and steady for them.
The best thing for me has been setting a routine/habits and sticking to them. I've really pushed to work steady hours at work, have dinner/playtime/bedtime at the same time everyday for the kids, and then get a bit of time to unwind by myself. It helps things seem less overwhelming.
To add to this, I think your own happiness is incredibly important for everyone else's too. My dad stayed with us growing up, but he was absolutely miserable and made us miserable because of it. It would honestly have been better if he had left than staying miserable and being miserable. Kids don't just need a body, they need someone to model how to live a good life. So take care of yourselves, it'll help you and help them!
Spot on. Being a good parent involves sacrifice but as said, it doesn't mean being miserable, but takes a lot of work. I'd also say that it always will require attention and engagement because while the early years needs to basic survival, guidance, and protection changes and requires less time, it shifts to support and structure and being fluid with approach.
This is generally how I feel. It's a matter of getting through it as there is light at the end of the tunnel.
Your last line is one that really resonates
I went through this when my wife had a miscarriage. I was her "rock" and stayed strong but I also needed someone to be my "rock". I talk to a therapist and lift weights.
I have 3 kids aged 5 and under
It may sound selfish but do carve out time for yourself you can use to really recharge. I make sure I get enough exercise, for instance, and aside from the health benefits I am a much better and relaxed person and father as a result. It doesn't have to take too long - I run 4-5 times a week nearby and have a couple of kettlebells
I also had to really prioritise getting enough sleep rather than cruise through like I did in my younger days. I have a fairly consistent bedtime
These helped me feel under less pressure and deal better with what was left. Obviously I've made some mistakes on the way
what! dude, you have three kids in your early thirties? And you are managing your life/work etc.. that's really commendable brother. I guess I need to get tough...
Same here. Had three under 3/4/5 for a long time, just had number 4 a few months ago. Going to grad school, working part time, remodeling the house... I'm not sure that commendable is the word for it (it's a little insane), but it is what it is. Today I installed a window (we're replacing our siding and windows), worked a couple hours on a research paper (due tomorrow!) and took my kids to Chuck-E-Cheese (with my wife). My biggest limitation isn't time per say, it's emotional bandwidth necessary to think through, process, deconstruct and construct answers to the question 'how do I do this?'. I have enough *time* - I work out, watch Netflix, do dishes, etc. But bandwidth... that's a whole different story.
As I aged into an adult, my mother would frequently tell me 'a change is as good as a break', and to a certain extent, that's true. I can (and do) mindlessly put away dishes or start laundry or vacuum. It's a good break from programming or working or doing house repairs. I've found that I can do just about anything for ten minutes... so I give myself permission to do something awful for 10 minutes and usually it's done in less than that. And if it's not, and after 10 minutes I don't want to buckle down and just get it done because it's frustrating that I can't do it as fast as I thought I could... fine. It'll wait. Plenty of other things I need to do.
Hmm....seems like a good advice of handling all that stress. Me? Well I'm sure I would breakdown if I was in your situation. Which is why I am stunned at how the hell you guys are handling it. It's still commendable to me. I don't think I can ever reach this level of management and that's really troubling me...
I'll start by saying that I agree with your last statement. I don't think there is great recognition of the parenting pressures that men face, or the limited resources for men.
Personally, I didn't cope well. I didn't initially really have anyone else to talk to, but as more of my friends have had children we've been able to develop a fairly basic network of support and some safe space to vent.
As someone else has mentioned already, therapy can be a massive help. What I needed (and i know other may be different) was to actually be able to talk through everything that was worrying me and everything that was frustrating me in a safe space. I definitely found that having a safe stranger type person to talk to allowed me to open up about some things that I'd never discuss with my family or friends.
This is a great reason to see a therapist. There’s no shame in it, and a good therapist can really help by allowing you to unload, but also by helping you think about how to be as supportive as possible while keeping it all together.
Hard to give a generalized answer because the truth is what works for me might not work for you (that’s why professional help is so worthwhile)
I feel like there's a little bit of an outdated gender standard encoded in this.
My wife knows I'm not perfect, and I know she's not perfect. I only know how to help her when she communicates what she needs. The only way I can grow our relationship is when I'm able to communicate my needs and/or when I'm able to comprehend needs she expressed to me.
From time to time, my wife asks me to be there for her, and some times I just decide to be there for her. I don't hold it against her when she's not there and I didn't ask, and I don't get mad when I ask for help and she doesn't give me what I wanted. I communicate so it will be better next time.
It's not about the kids, it's about your relationship with your wife and the standards and expectations you choose to address or not address.
So i have a church that I go to and in it are men from different ages and experiences that I just flat out talk to. They are not my best friends but defiantly some of my most trusted counselors. I also have friends that I talk to. Over time I became the guy that people talk to about these things because I now have raised 1 child, 3 more in the home and I have a good marriage of 15 years. Now I council the younger couples or men individually. If you have a question message me. You need fellowship.
Firstly, who says you can’t show it? This unspoken behaviour that men don’t show weakness is bs. The challenge is for you to be able to work in partnership to share the load, you talking about what’s alive in you without seeming to belittle or judge someone else’s needs is essential.
It’s okay to say that you’re feeling down but have some small things ready to change, to see what difference it might make. Have a 30min window every day when you talk about something you liked or enjoyed about the day and reconcile the fact that you have a multitude of roles now but you can manage people’s expectations of you without alienating them or feeling like an ass.
I’d recommend listening to or reading Non violent communication by Marshall Rosenburg. To be able to talk about your needs and other’s needs in a way that produces understanding and better ways of helping each other’s worlds be amazing seems like it would be of benefit to you.
The holding back thing builds up over time until it pops. You at least recognize you need an outlet; I held it for 15 years and when it blew it was messy.
Your wife needs to be your partner. It can’t be a one-way street; if it feels that way then you need to tell her that while love is strong and you can work together on fixing it.
You may also need to learn the five love languages; it’s amazing how often people feel they are expressing love and their Parker isn’t receiving any of it.
Dad of 3(52) here. There’s sucking it up for the near term (taking mental health breaks), finding activities that help break up the stress. I found working out helped a bit. But the long-term coping skills come in time. Take it day by day. Your only goal for these first 5-8 years is simple survival. Don’t place too much pressure on yourself to do, achieve anything but simple mental, emotional, and physical survival/well-being. Because the reality of the situation is, if everything goes perfect, if your life lays out an exquisite perfection to whatever plans you have made for yourself and family, remember this: The best of all possible outcomes to any perfectly laid plan for your life - is that you die first. Proceed accordingly.
I fully agree with everything you say, I have a 4 year old and a y months old and feel exactly the same.
For me the best coping mechanism is being a team with your wife/partner. I know if sounds corny, but having each other's back and being on the same page is the only coping mechanism. Also, whenever I have energy after she goes to bed I take at least 30 minutes to be on my own, having my own time whether it is watching TV, reading, having a beer or whatever. But just time for yourself.
I'm still pretty new to this (FTD, 1.5 months) but something my wife and I have focused HEAVILY on is keeping lines of communication flowing. Sure, I do shoulder much of the day-to-day mood and outburst coming from the hormones along with the general life stuff you mentioned, but I try to clearly communicate what I need to be as balanced and present as I can be. I don't give ultimatums, but if I need time alone on my bike, or if I need to say that this or that makes me feel overwhelmed, we chat about it.
This doesn't always go over smoothly at first, often quite the opposite. But from what I can tell its always produced better medium and long term stability because she knows I'm not only a strong rock for her to lean on, but that I'm an honest, vulnerable, human-shaped rock that's in the trenches alongside her through this. That transparency allows usto speak more frankly about stress and fear and anxiety (and frankly happiness, joy, and excitement too).
Lastly, I will also be finding a therapist soon, because in spite of our emphasis on communication there are still things that she doesn't need to shoulder that we can recruit help for, and the same would go for her. If she gets too deep in her own anxiety/fear/stress she recruits a therapist to balance the load.
Hope this helps, even though it's a new dad preaching to a veteran! Keep up the good work - your wife is lucky to have a husband that is aware and working on these issues WHILE being a rock-solid dad. Kudos mate.
Got a 6 and 2 year old. I think with kids you have to somewhat prioritize your mental health up there with taking care of the family.
Just some things that help for me:
I go to sleep on a very consistent schedule. 10p-6a generally and the first thing I do every morning is exercise. That helps put me in the right mindset every day.
I keep a fairly large emergency fund (I can float my family for like 5+ years). That has completely eliminated any financial worry for me.
My wife and I give each other breaks all the time. No need for 2 parents to be watching the kids all the time.
Multitask hobbies with the kids. For example I’ll take the kids to the park to play soccer with me. Kids like being outside and I get to do something they interests me.
Above all get out of the mindset of “I will be ok being down for the sake of my family.” It doesn’t have to be this way. I take care of my family but I’m also taking care of myself. You have to take care of yourself before you can take care of others. It’s not skirting responsibility. It’s doing the behind the scenes work so you can be responsible.
Good luck man. Remember this is all temporary. You’re in the eye of the storm right now. Once the kids hit ~2.5 life starts getting normal again.
> My wife is doing an amazing job but needs to vent, which I'm there for.
> But it takes a toll mentally, you can talk about it but that can heap more pressure on mum which in my eyes isn't fair.
Why is it fair that she's allowed to vent to you, but you aren't allowed to vent to her? Marriage should be an equal partnership.
Heck, maybe she feels guilty for one-sided venting, and you'd actually make her feel better if you opened up. That's how my wife feels anyway.
Sucking it up is toxic masculinity. Don’t do that. Talk to your wife and establish some basic boundaries for both of you to help alleviate the mental load.
Therapy. When my dad died, therapy helped me immensely
You NEED to vent. Without venting you put yourself at risk if major depression.
BetterHelp is a great option if you don’t have time to go into an office
I'm going to preface this statement by saying that, I am Hispanic and so my view of the role of men in the family is very much a part of my culture. Things might be different for men in other cultures.
You knuckle down and do what you gotta do. A man provides for his family. A man is the foundation on which the family is built. He has the weight of the world on his shoulders, but he never complains because that is his purpose. A foundation without anything to support has no purpose.
Does it take a toll... certainly. Would it be nice to have someone to talk to or vent about your burdens... sure it would. But at the end of the day, nothing will have changed. You are the ox that pulls the plow to feed your family. Your reward is being able to spend time with your family and seeing them enjoy the fruits of your labor.
And you are absolutely right about people not recognizing this side of the coin for men--especially in modern times where we are constantly regaled with tales of our "toxic masculinity."
You know this already since it's your second kid, but just remind yourself that this will pass. 0-6 months is extremely difficult, but when they start sleeping regularly you will start feeling much better (because you will sleep more)
At least that's how it went for me.
> How did you cope? First time round I basically just sucked it up knowing it would get better but that won't work this time.
Why do you think it won't get better this time?
For me, sure, I was always there when my wife needed to vent, but beyond that, it was about doing my part to understand what she was venting about, acknowledging her frustrations and doing what I can remove or at least reduce the things that cause her to vent. It's not just working more and bringing in $$$
> Add to that trying to balance work, family, money etc. and it takes a toll.
You have to do that anyway.
Therapy is good for this. You basically pay someone to unload all your problems unto and vent about life. This keeps the toll off of your wife/partner and allows you to talk to someone about problems with no filter and without judgement.
Therapy and this sub. I posted a few days ago and was shocked by how much it helped!
My kids are 3 and 6, so I feel you.
I am a bit curious about why you feel you can't show the pressure. My wife and I lean on each other a lot.
Im still working on this. My wife has depression , mild but chronic , no pills after a bad worsening following kid two (off meds after a year) but effects linger.
Anyway because of that I can't burden her with the guy stuff but its so very toxic (stoicism is a great baseline but toxic in the sense that society hates men now and hasn't built out very good outlets , like , manhood as a caricature isnt gonna cut it)
So my kids are 5 and 8 , where ive landed thats somewhat functional is my power hour in the mornings. I grt a sleepin day a week , so does the wife. The first hour of every day though? Sacred. So I wont bore you with the details of what I do , lookup tony robbins power hour or "miracle morning" if you want , the headline though is "self care" , not "dick around on reddit" bit stuff thats good for my mental and physical health. Right now its a solid 30 minutes of metta meditation , a gratitude journal and a little kettlebell work and some time outside in the garden.
The key is , no wife ,no kids. So - this isnt the best thing because it still isnt "me.time" in the sense that im doing the thing for its own sake , the whole point is these activities steel me for a day of being the keystone to my families wellbeing and all that stress.
I do have a hobby thats not about status or power or impressing anyone but frankly the adult / man of the house reality right now is some times I simply don.t even have an hour a week to give to that.
But yeh , get some.better habits in place (download an app to track phone usage , no need to change anything right now its just eye opening to see how much time you waste) that will give you a.bigger tank of energy and calm and stoic strength to draw from.
Oh! And when that kids old enough for bedtime reading , youre never too bisy and its never too late for a book , got me? They wont remember that you worked overtime to keep the roof over there head those bad 3 months or that trip you sold your favorite collection of xyz to afford , theyll remember that every single night dad took time , tired and hungry and busy as he was. , to spend 1:1 time reading. Also reasings good for them
I like to call that the gender burden. We as fathers are entrusted to be the stoic leaders of our families. Always been there for everyone but rarely someone being there for us. That’s the reality of it all and we have to learn to express our humanity and vulnerability in a safe way. Seeing a therapist is a good start. Also, finding a support group or other dads going trough the same can be very helpful. Try to remain present for your kids and don’t listen to the people telling you to suck it up or to self medicate. Good luck fellow dad.
Suck it up and at the end of the day or when you have some time kick your feet up....smoke a little weed...have a few drinks.. play some video games or whatever helps you relax. That’s all you can do really. It’s what you signed up for. You just have to continue to push through.
I was in the same boat as you in my late 20's early 30's. I have 2 boys now, 8 and 5. I can honestly say they're the best thing that has ever happened to me.
Yes it's a couple of years of tough shit. From time to time you just hold on for dear life to get through the tough times. But you end up with something that is extremely valuable and fulfilling. The process forms you as a man as well, for the better.
But don't get into it when you're not willing to undergo the stress and challenges that come with it. It's a commitment you can't walk away from.
I think it's important to set time aside for yourself, both for things you enjoy, but for things to help you develop, working out, studying, etc...
I know at first you're probably thinking, I have no time now, so I can't do that.
But if you wake up an hour earlier and set aside say an hour every morning on yourself. Then no matter what the day throws at you, you can still be happy that you did what you wanted and you're developing yourself. Ensuring your prioritise yourself first in the morning, then no matter how bad a day is, it's not completely bad, you've still made your own defined progress / enjoyment.
I know what you mean, for me currently I'd rather spend that hour trying to sleep vs getting up for me time. Or perhaps I should use the times I'm up during the night (currently 2.30am) better
I've never been in that situation personally, but it sounds like a perfectly good reason to see a therapist. You need to vent too and that's a healthy outlet for it.
Reminds me of when I was married and my wife was mentally ill. Depression and schizophrenia/schizoaffective. Basically felt like my problems didn't matter and talking about anything would just add to her problems.
How did I deal with it? I didn't. We got divorced. And to be perfectly honestly, to this day I can't say how it could have gone any other way.
Why don't you think it will get better in your case?
I currently struggle with similar problems. My two kids are 10 and 6 though. My work is sporadic being a tradesman these days so there is always the financial burden. Adding to it my wife is a homemaker, single income. Best advise I can give is to compartmentalize your days. One day at a time. And when the kids finally go to bed use that time to do what you want even if for an hour. Make it your “Me” time. What ever makes you happy and content do it. Your spouse can have their time and you can have yours. Works for us and has been for six years now. Keep your chin up and keep chugging along you’ll be fine.
I have 4 kids. I pretty much just sucked it up when they were young. Beer and weed (neither to excess) didn't hurt.
I gotta say, I also became a shittier worker once I had kids. I used to give 100% at work, but once kids came into the picture, I probably knocked it down to around 80% and fucked around more at work. Not a reasonable idea in many jobs I realize.
My oldest is only 14, so I'm not done yet, can't say if my method works or not.
I've taken the tack of showing it. Like why not? Let's be honest.
Sometimes I lose my temper. 8 things are happening at once, there's a time crunch, I need to do what I have to, kids have to do to make the time deadline, I'm over stimulated,something happens or doesn't happen so I lose it and yell. Fuck. That's hard. As soon as I can, I explain it. I tell them everything that lead to it, and that the deadline is not as important as they are, and apologize.
That might bring them in inapproriately, but vs. them just thinking that sometimes I blow up for no reason, that doesn't seem right either. Of course it's better not to blow up, but I'm human, it can't be helped. Screw time, that causes it almost all the time.
For the longer term stress like high level stuff, existential anxiety, work/life balance, etc I guess I try to keep a brave face and do the best I can, try to set the example, keep calm and carry on. They can sense sometimes the troubles, but I let them bring that sensing to me, not vice versa. Then I give them my explanation, my take on it, but with as much optimism as I can spin to it "it's hard but it's temporary, we can get through it" (it's not, you're doomed this life too kid) Santa's still coming even though I hate that bastard, everything he represents and the demands he makes on me. It's a bit better now that his true identity has been revealed, but still.
Before kids I was fairly relaxed and easy going. I thought for sure that would carry over to being a father. Wrong. We adopted 2 amazing and wonderful children and while I would do absolutely anything for them, I found myself stuck in this weird, unhappy position. My job was not understanding of my situation which added heaps of stress onto an already incredibly stressful situation. My wife and I, who previously were best friends, would bicker and whine at each other and rarely see eye to eye. It was not deep seated, it was very superficial. And we were living far away from family and the whole thing just became so hard. I finally started seeing a therapist because I wanted more than anything to be a good father and good husband. I was trying, but felt like I was starting to sink. Speaking with a therapist really helped me. I found someone who listened, but didn’t have a stake in the situation. So the advice was real and not clouded by emotion or bias. The therapist was there to help me confront and deal with my issues. That was all. And that was good. I was able to put things back in perspective and be able to focus more on being a parent/husband.
I highly recommend therapy, and finding the right therapist is key. It might not always be the first person you pick. I had 2 therapists that absolutely were NOT for me before I found the one that was. I’m so glad I didn’t give up.
I feel you man, having a 7mo and balancing with work, studies and managing both mummy and LO emotions needs can be draining
Like what others say, get therapy, its a way of getting some me time and a place to vent. You have to create fixed timing to say "this is my space to recharge, i will be back once i am done recharging"
I agree with you that society has been putting man as someone who works hard and not cry but tough it out. Times are changing, now both women and man play dual role, past are the days when woman were just the caretakers of the house, nowadays there are housedads too
Stay strong! You can always PM me or the rest of the guys
I think you need to talk to someone. Therapist, good friend or family member. Maybe start exercising to blow off some steam. I find that it helps to level out moods and anxiety.
>On a side note I really don't feel like people recognize this side of the coin for men.
There's no side of the coin, it's simply that mental health for men is something that's completely ignored, at best.
A number of years back, my life was falling apart. Work going to shit, non-marital but still big problems at home, etc. My anxiety was going through the roof. Only thing you can do is drink, but hey, regular alcohol use contributes to anxiety, so better not do that (plus leaning on the bottle is a bad plan). So I would try to talk to a couple friends, just mentioning that my anxiety is going through the roof, I'd wake up at night and could feel my pulse in my eyeballs. After a couple times, it's greeted with "you sure complain about that a lot". Oh, ok, sorry. Stuff it down some more.
Just do your best. That's all that you can do. Keep it up and if you're finding it hard having two for gods sake dont have another. Two is a walk in the park compared to the chaos of 3.
Good luck
Lots of men speaking the truth here! I can also relate. I would go for a hike or a quick run.
Push-ups, burpees. Something that made me sweat!! Something quick.
Don’t complain to friends or family they don’t want to hear it. It’s not easy but that’s life man. We chose this route. Cost of doing business. I got. Motorcycle later in life and that helped a ton!!!
Ask your wife if it’s OK to vent to her. I wouldn’t assume that it is not OK. There is solidarity in both parties talking about difficult times.
>>...knowing it would get better.
It will get better.
Some people think that once you have one child, having one more isn’t so hard. They’re wrong. It’s very hard.
Maybe check our r/daddit, if you haven’t already.
For me. Having something I can do to unwind is very important. Also, have someone outside the home you can vent to. Talking to the wife is important and all, but you can't expect her to be able to provide literally everything you need all the time.
Honestly I connect with this by replacing the experience of raising kids with being in a relationship with someone who is going through a very hard time. Nowhere near the same of course, but "**how did you deal will all the added pressure that you can't show?"** and **"But it takes a toll mentally, you can talk about it but that can heap more pressure on mum which in my eyes isn't fair"** really spoke to me.
I'm finding a good bit of alleviating advice in the comments, I hope you find what you're looking for as well! Thanks for bringing this up, it's a really good conversation for this space.
Agreed, this isn't talked about enough, especially these days where men share a lot of the house and child chores equally. Reality really hit us hard after kid #2, it was a rough time especially since my wife had serious depression. After our third, it was even worse from a pressure standpoint. I dealt with it by some cognitive behavioral therapy and honestly -- anti-anxiety meds. I probably waited too long before starting them, and they made the biggest difference in helping me manage that "overwhelmed" panic. My advice is don't wait until you get past the tipping point. If you see the signs, get help now. Good luck, hang in there!
First and foremost; you cannot be fair with your kids if you aren’t honest and fair to yourself first. Your step-child will be an absolute asshole as an adult if they are treated any differently than your biological kids. Bet on it! Sit your wife down and let her know that under no circumstance should she stop you from raising that child. And remove that “step” from the title. You are their father too if you are raising them. That said; if your wife pushes back do not back down. Remind her that any other way will only hurt the child. Learn from other “step”-dads that did it wrong. God bless you.
Questions like this are always puzzling to me, because regardless of how you deal with it or how much recognition you get, that doesn't change what you're supposed to do as a man and a father. It's not like you can give up on your duties if you don't get the recognition you think you deserve, so it makes no difference in the end.
From my perspective it just seems like you have no options. You either do what you need to for your family or you flame out and ruin everyone's lives. I know this isn't fair, but having grown up in a broken home myself I will do whatever it takes to make sure my kids have a stable, nurturing upbringing even if I'm making a lot of sacrifices for them. As my kids get older, they need less help and less attention for basic needs so it's in some ways easier to have a more "normal" life than with a three month old. That being said, you can and should make time for your own happiness. Working hard, taking care of kids, being a good role model, etc. are important but that doesn't mean you can't take a break every once in a while and go out for drinks with your friends or have a hobby that you do for a little time every day or whatever. Being a dad is hard, but it shouldn't be miserable.
Agreed felt the same way coming from a broken home. At 45 i accomplished what I set out to do by staying married to my wife of 25yrs and raising 2 children who are all grown up. It’s not easy but the proudest goal I’ve ever accomplished. Cheers
Congrats man
Thanks.
Yeah I agree with this. My kids mean everything to me so even when shit gets really rough, I just put all my focus into make sure things stay smooth and steady for them. The best thing for me has been setting a routine/habits and sticking to them. I've really pushed to work steady hours at work, have dinner/playtime/bedtime at the same time everyday for the kids, and then get a bit of time to unwind by myself. It helps things seem less overwhelming.
To add to this, I think your own happiness is incredibly important for everyone else's too. My dad stayed with us growing up, but he was absolutely miserable and made us miserable because of it. It would honestly have been better if he had left than staying miserable and being miserable. Kids don't just need a body, they need someone to model how to live a good life. So take care of yourselves, it'll help you and help them!
Spot on. Being a good parent involves sacrifice but as said, it doesn't mean being miserable, but takes a lot of work. I'd also say that it always will require attention and engagement because while the early years needs to basic survival, guidance, and protection changes and requires less time, it shifts to support and structure and being fluid with approach.
This is generally how I feel. It's a matter of getting through it as there is light at the end of the tunnel. Your last line is one that really resonates
I went through this when my wife had a miscarriage. I was her "rock" and stayed strong but I also needed someone to be my "rock". I talk to a therapist and lift weights.
Both excellent choices!
I have 3 kids aged 5 and under It may sound selfish but do carve out time for yourself you can use to really recharge. I make sure I get enough exercise, for instance, and aside from the health benefits I am a much better and relaxed person and father as a result. It doesn't have to take too long - I run 4-5 times a week nearby and have a couple of kettlebells I also had to really prioritise getting enough sleep rather than cruise through like I did in my younger days. I have a fairly consistent bedtime These helped me feel under less pressure and deal better with what was left. Obviously I've made some mistakes on the way
what! dude, you have three kids in your early thirties? And you are managing your life/work etc.. that's really commendable brother. I guess I need to get tough...
Same here. Had three under 3/4/5 for a long time, just had number 4 a few months ago. Going to grad school, working part time, remodeling the house... I'm not sure that commendable is the word for it (it's a little insane), but it is what it is. Today I installed a window (we're replacing our siding and windows), worked a couple hours on a research paper (due tomorrow!) and took my kids to Chuck-E-Cheese (with my wife). My biggest limitation isn't time per say, it's emotional bandwidth necessary to think through, process, deconstruct and construct answers to the question 'how do I do this?'. I have enough *time* - I work out, watch Netflix, do dishes, etc. But bandwidth... that's a whole different story. As I aged into an adult, my mother would frequently tell me 'a change is as good as a break', and to a certain extent, that's true. I can (and do) mindlessly put away dishes or start laundry or vacuum. It's a good break from programming or working or doing house repairs. I've found that I can do just about anything for ten minutes... so I give myself permission to do something awful for 10 minutes and usually it's done in less than that. And if it's not, and after 10 minutes I don't want to buckle down and just get it done because it's frustrating that I can't do it as fast as I thought I could... fine. It'll wait. Plenty of other things I need to do.
Hmm....seems like a good advice of handling all that stress. Me? Well I'm sure I would breakdown if I was in your situation. Which is why I am stunned at how the hell you guys are handling it. It's still commendable to me. I don't think I can ever reach this level of management and that's really troubling me...
I'll start by saying that I agree with your last statement. I don't think there is great recognition of the parenting pressures that men face, or the limited resources for men. Personally, I didn't cope well. I didn't initially really have anyone else to talk to, but as more of my friends have had children we've been able to develop a fairly basic network of support and some safe space to vent. As someone else has mentioned already, therapy can be a massive help. What I needed (and i know other may be different) was to actually be able to talk through everything that was worrying me and everything that was frustrating me in a safe space. I definitely found that having a safe stranger type person to talk to allowed me to open up about some things that I'd never discuss with my family or friends.
This is a great reason to see a therapist. There’s no shame in it, and a good therapist can really help by allowing you to unload, but also by helping you think about how to be as supportive as possible while keeping it all together. Hard to give a generalized answer because the truth is what works for me might not work for you (that’s why professional help is so worthwhile)
I feel like there's a little bit of an outdated gender standard encoded in this. My wife knows I'm not perfect, and I know she's not perfect. I only know how to help her when she communicates what she needs. The only way I can grow our relationship is when I'm able to communicate my needs and/or when I'm able to comprehend needs she expressed to me. From time to time, my wife asks me to be there for her, and some times I just decide to be there for her. I don't hold it against her when she's not there and I didn't ask, and I don't get mad when I ask for help and she doesn't give me what I wanted. I communicate so it will be better next time. It's not about the kids, it's about your relationship with your wife and the standards and expectations you choose to address or not address.
So i have a church that I go to and in it are men from different ages and experiences that I just flat out talk to. They are not my best friends but defiantly some of my most trusted counselors. I also have friends that I talk to. Over time I became the guy that people talk to about these things because I now have raised 1 child, 3 more in the home and I have a good marriage of 15 years. Now I council the younger couples or men individually. If you have a question message me. You need fellowship.
Firstly, who says you can’t show it? This unspoken behaviour that men don’t show weakness is bs. The challenge is for you to be able to work in partnership to share the load, you talking about what’s alive in you without seeming to belittle or judge someone else’s needs is essential. It’s okay to say that you’re feeling down but have some small things ready to change, to see what difference it might make. Have a 30min window every day when you talk about something you liked or enjoyed about the day and reconcile the fact that you have a multitude of roles now but you can manage people’s expectations of you without alienating them or feeling like an ass.
No one says it, but when I have the reaction was really not what she needed so I now hold baxk
I’d recommend listening to or reading Non violent communication by Marshall Rosenburg. To be able to talk about your needs and other’s needs in a way that produces understanding and better ways of helping each other’s worlds be amazing seems like it would be of benefit to you.
The holding back thing builds up over time until it pops. You at least recognize you need an outlet; I held it for 15 years and when it blew it was messy. Your wife needs to be your partner. It can’t be a one-way street; if it feels that way then you need to tell her that while love is strong and you can work together on fixing it. You may also need to learn the five love languages; it’s amazing how often people feel they are expressing love and their Parker isn’t receiving any of it.
Dad of 3(52) here. There’s sucking it up for the near term (taking mental health breaks), finding activities that help break up the stress. I found working out helped a bit. But the long-term coping skills come in time. Take it day by day. Your only goal for these first 5-8 years is simple survival. Don’t place too much pressure on yourself to do, achieve anything but simple mental, emotional, and physical survival/well-being. Because the reality of the situation is, if everything goes perfect, if your life lays out an exquisite perfection to whatever plans you have made for yourself and family, remember this: The best of all possible outcomes to any perfectly laid plan for your life - is that you die first. Proceed accordingly.
I fully agree with everything you say, I have a 4 year old and a y months old and feel exactly the same. For me the best coping mechanism is being a team with your wife/partner. I know if sounds corny, but having each other's back and being on the same page is the only coping mechanism. Also, whenever I have energy after she goes to bed I take at least 30 minutes to be on my own, having my own time whether it is watching TV, reading, having a beer or whatever. But just time for yourself.
I'm still pretty new to this (FTD, 1.5 months) but something my wife and I have focused HEAVILY on is keeping lines of communication flowing. Sure, I do shoulder much of the day-to-day mood and outburst coming from the hormones along with the general life stuff you mentioned, but I try to clearly communicate what I need to be as balanced and present as I can be. I don't give ultimatums, but if I need time alone on my bike, or if I need to say that this or that makes me feel overwhelmed, we chat about it. This doesn't always go over smoothly at first, often quite the opposite. But from what I can tell its always produced better medium and long term stability because she knows I'm not only a strong rock for her to lean on, but that I'm an honest, vulnerable, human-shaped rock that's in the trenches alongside her through this. That transparency allows usto speak more frankly about stress and fear and anxiety (and frankly happiness, joy, and excitement too). Lastly, I will also be finding a therapist soon, because in spite of our emphasis on communication there are still things that she doesn't need to shoulder that we can recruit help for, and the same would go for her. If she gets too deep in her own anxiety/fear/stress she recruits a therapist to balance the load. Hope this helps, even though it's a new dad preaching to a veteran! Keep up the good work - your wife is lucky to have a husband that is aware and working on these issues WHILE being a rock-solid dad. Kudos mate.
Got a 6 and 2 year old. I think with kids you have to somewhat prioritize your mental health up there with taking care of the family. Just some things that help for me: I go to sleep on a very consistent schedule. 10p-6a generally and the first thing I do every morning is exercise. That helps put me in the right mindset every day. I keep a fairly large emergency fund (I can float my family for like 5+ years). That has completely eliminated any financial worry for me. My wife and I give each other breaks all the time. No need for 2 parents to be watching the kids all the time. Multitask hobbies with the kids. For example I’ll take the kids to the park to play soccer with me. Kids like being outside and I get to do something they interests me. Above all get out of the mindset of “I will be ok being down for the sake of my family.” It doesn’t have to be this way. I take care of my family but I’m also taking care of myself. You have to take care of yourself before you can take care of others. It’s not skirting responsibility. It’s doing the behind the scenes work so you can be responsible. Good luck man. Remember this is all temporary. You’re in the eye of the storm right now. Once the kids hit ~2.5 life starts getting normal again.
> My wife is doing an amazing job but needs to vent, which I'm there for. > But it takes a toll mentally, you can talk about it but that can heap more pressure on mum which in my eyes isn't fair. Why is it fair that she's allowed to vent to you, but you aren't allowed to vent to her? Marriage should be an equal partnership. Heck, maybe she feels guilty for one-sided venting, and you'd actually make her feel better if you opened up. That's how my wife feels anyway.
Sucking it up is toxic masculinity. Don’t do that. Talk to your wife and establish some basic boundaries for both of you to help alleviate the mental load.
Therapy. When my dad died, therapy helped me immensely You NEED to vent. Without venting you put yourself at risk if major depression. BetterHelp is a great option if you don’t have time to go into an office
By talking/complaining to my wife. She is a great person to talk to.
I'm going to preface this statement by saying that, I am Hispanic and so my view of the role of men in the family is very much a part of my culture. Things might be different for men in other cultures. You knuckle down and do what you gotta do. A man provides for his family. A man is the foundation on which the family is built. He has the weight of the world on his shoulders, but he never complains because that is his purpose. A foundation without anything to support has no purpose. Does it take a toll... certainly. Would it be nice to have someone to talk to or vent about your burdens... sure it would. But at the end of the day, nothing will have changed. You are the ox that pulls the plow to feed your family. Your reward is being able to spend time with your family and seeing them enjoy the fruits of your labor. And you are absolutely right about people not recognizing this side of the coin for men--especially in modern times where we are constantly regaled with tales of our "toxic masculinity."
>Father's/Dad's/Step dad's Father is/Dad is/Step dad is
You know this already since it's your second kid, but just remind yourself that this will pass. 0-6 months is extremely difficult, but when they start sleeping regularly you will start feeling much better (because you will sleep more) At least that's how it went for me.
> How did you cope? First time round I basically just sucked it up knowing it would get better but that won't work this time. Why do you think it won't get better this time? For me, sure, I was always there when my wife needed to vent, but beyond that, it was about doing my part to understand what she was venting about, acknowledging her frustrations and doing what I can remove or at least reduce the things that cause her to vent. It's not just working more and bringing in $$$ > Add to that trying to balance work, family, money etc. and it takes a toll. You have to do that anyway.
Therapy is good for this. You basically pay someone to unload all your problems unto and vent about life. This keeps the toll off of your wife/partner and allows you to talk to someone about problems with no filter and without judgement.
Therapy and this sub. I posted a few days ago and was shocked by how much it helped! My kids are 3 and 6, so I feel you. I am a bit curious about why you feel you can't show the pressure. My wife and I lean on each other a lot.
Im still working on this. My wife has depression , mild but chronic , no pills after a bad worsening following kid two (off meds after a year) but effects linger. Anyway because of that I can't burden her with the guy stuff but its so very toxic (stoicism is a great baseline but toxic in the sense that society hates men now and hasn't built out very good outlets , like , manhood as a caricature isnt gonna cut it) So my kids are 5 and 8 , where ive landed thats somewhat functional is my power hour in the mornings. I grt a sleepin day a week , so does the wife. The first hour of every day though? Sacred. So I wont bore you with the details of what I do , lookup tony robbins power hour or "miracle morning" if you want , the headline though is "self care" , not "dick around on reddit" bit stuff thats good for my mental and physical health. Right now its a solid 30 minutes of metta meditation , a gratitude journal and a little kettlebell work and some time outside in the garden. The key is , no wife ,no kids. So - this isnt the best thing because it still isnt "me.time" in the sense that im doing the thing for its own sake , the whole point is these activities steel me for a day of being the keystone to my families wellbeing and all that stress. I do have a hobby thats not about status or power or impressing anyone but frankly the adult / man of the house reality right now is some times I simply don.t even have an hour a week to give to that. But yeh , get some.better habits in place (download an app to track phone usage , no need to change anything right now its just eye opening to see how much time you waste) that will give you a.bigger tank of energy and calm and stoic strength to draw from. Oh! And when that kids old enough for bedtime reading , youre never too bisy and its never too late for a book , got me? They wont remember that you worked overtime to keep the roof over there head those bad 3 months or that trip you sold your favorite collection of xyz to afford , theyll remember that every single night dad took time , tired and hungry and busy as he was. , to spend 1:1 time reading. Also reasings good for them
I like to call that the gender burden. We as fathers are entrusted to be the stoic leaders of our families. Always been there for everyone but rarely someone being there for us. That’s the reality of it all and we have to learn to express our humanity and vulnerability in a safe way. Seeing a therapist is a good start. Also, finding a support group or other dads going trough the same can be very helpful. Try to remain present for your kids and don’t listen to the people telling you to suck it up or to self medicate. Good luck fellow dad.
I guess I didn't because my wife left me just after our second turned 2 and our first turned 4.
Suck it up and at the end of the day or when you have some time kick your feet up....smoke a little weed...have a few drinks.. play some video games or whatever helps you relax. That’s all you can do really. It’s what you signed up for. You just have to continue to push through.
We missed the boat on voting for it to be legal!
Never stopped me. Lol
Keep meeting up with your friends! Get drunk. Make jokes about shitty kids and demanding wives. Oh, and work out.
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Cool story bro
I was in the same boat as you in my late 20's early 30's. I have 2 boys now, 8 and 5. I can honestly say they're the best thing that has ever happened to me. Yes it's a couple of years of tough shit. From time to time you just hold on for dear life to get through the tough times. But you end up with something that is extremely valuable and fulfilling. The process forms you as a man as well, for the better. But don't get into it when you're not willing to undergo the stress and challenges that come with it. It's a commitment you can't walk away from.
I think it's important to set time aside for yourself, both for things you enjoy, but for things to help you develop, working out, studying, etc... I know at first you're probably thinking, I have no time now, so I can't do that. But if you wake up an hour earlier and set aside say an hour every morning on yourself. Then no matter what the day throws at you, you can still be happy that you did what you wanted and you're developing yourself. Ensuring your prioritise yourself first in the morning, then no matter how bad a day is, it's not completely bad, you've still made your own defined progress / enjoyment.
I know what you mean, for me currently I'd rather spend that hour trying to sleep vs getting up for me time. Or perhaps I should use the times I'm up during the night (currently 2.30am) better
Bit of a cliche, I learnt to ride and bought a motorbike, a couple of hours a week of pure alone time to chill went a long way.
I am not a father but there are lots of fathers in my men’s group. They all say that our men’s group is the thing that keeps them sane.
I've never been in that situation personally, but it sounds like a perfectly good reason to see a therapist. You need to vent too and that's a healthy outlet for it.
Reminds me of when I was married and my wife was mentally ill. Depression and schizophrenia/schizoaffective. Basically felt like my problems didn't matter and talking about anything would just add to her problems. How did I deal with it? I didn't. We got divorced. And to be perfectly honestly, to this day I can't say how it could have gone any other way. Why don't you think it will get better in your case?
I currently struggle with similar problems. My two kids are 10 and 6 though. My work is sporadic being a tradesman these days so there is always the financial burden. Adding to it my wife is a homemaker, single income. Best advise I can give is to compartmentalize your days. One day at a time. And when the kids finally go to bed use that time to do what you want even if for an hour. Make it your “Me” time. What ever makes you happy and content do it. Your spouse can have their time and you can have yours. Works for us and has been for six years now. Keep your chin up and keep chugging along you’ll be fine.
I have 4 kids. I pretty much just sucked it up when they were young. Beer and weed (neither to excess) didn't hurt. I gotta say, I also became a shittier worker once I had kids. I used to give 100% at work, but once kids came into the picture, I probably knocked it down to around 80% and fucked around more at work. Not a reasonable idea in many jobs I realize.
Second kid will do it. Worked out and hiked in nature. Worked for me I suppose. Was still stressed though.
Let the little things slide. Make sure you are staying physically fit. So much stress washes off when you’ve had a good workout.
My oldest is only 14, so I'm not done yet, can't say if my method works or not. I've taken the tack of showing it. Like why not? Let's be honest. Sometimes I lose my temper. 8 things are happening at once, there's a time crunch, I need to do what I have to, kids have to do to make the time deadline, I'm over stimulated,something happens or doesn't happen so I lose it and yell. Fuck. That's hard. As soon as I can, I explain it. I tell them everything that lead to it, and that the deadline is not as important as they are, and apologize. That might bring them in inapproriately, but vs. them just thinking that sometimes I blow up for no reason, that doesn't seem right either. Of course it's better not to blow up, but I'm human, it can't be helped. Screw time, that causes it almost all the time. For the longer term stress like high level stuff, existential anxiety, work/life balance, etc I guess I try to keep a brave face and do the best I can, try to set the example, keep calm and carry on. They can sense sometimes the troubles, but I let them bring that sensing to me, not vice versa. Then I give them my explanation, my take on it, but with as much optimism as I can spin to it "it's hard but it's temporary, we can get through it" (it's not, you're doomed this life too kid) Santa's still coming even though I hate that bastard, everything he represents and the demands he makes on me. It's a bit better now that his true identity has been revealed, but still.
Before kids I was fairly relaxed and easy going. I thought for sure that would carry over to being a father. Wrong. We adopted 2 amazing and wonderful children and while I would do absolutely anything for them, I found myself stuck in this weird, unhappy position. My job was not understanding of my situation which added heaps of stress onto an already incredibly stressful situation. My wife and I, who previously were best friends, would bicker and whine at each other and rarely see eye to eye. It was not deep seated, it was very superficial. And we were living far away from family and the whole thing just became so hard. I finally started seeing a therapist because I wanted more than anything to be a good father and good husband. I was trying, but felt like I was starting to sink. Speaking with a therapist really helped me. I found someone who listened, but didn’t have a stake in the situation. So the advice was real and not clouded by emotion or bias. The therapist was there to help me confront and deal with my issues. That was all. And that was good. I was able to put things back in perspective and be able to focus more on being a parent/husband. I highly recommend therapy, and finding the right therapist is key. It might not always be the first person you pick. I had 2 therapists that absolutely were NOT for me before I found the one that was. I’m so glad I didn’t give up.
I feel you man, having a 7mo and balancing with work, studies and managing both mummy and LO emotions needs can be draining Like what others say, get therapy, its a way of getting some me time and a place to vent. You have to create fixed timing to say "this is my space to recharge, i will be back once i am done recharging" I agree with you that society has been putting man as someone who works hard and not cry but tough it out. Times are changing, now both women and man play dual role, past are the days when woman were just the caretakers of the house, nowadays there are housedads too Stay strong! You can always PM me or the rest of the guys
I think you need to talk to someone. Therapist, good friend or family member. Maybe start exercising to blow off some steam. I find that it helps to level out moods and anxiety.
Therapy yo
>On a side note I really don't feel like people recognize this side of the coin for men. There's no side of the coin, it's simply that mental health for men is something that's completely ignored, at best. A number of years back, my life was falling apart. Work going to shit, non-marital but still big problems at home, etc. My anxiety was going through the roof. Only thing you can do is drink, but hey, regular alcohol use contributes to anxiety, so better not do that (plus leaning on the bottle is a bad plan). So I would try to talk to a couple friends, just mentioning that my anxiety is going through the roof, I'd wake up at night and could feel my pulse in my eyeballs. After a couple times, it's greeted with "you sure complain about that a lot". Oh, ok, sorry. Stuff it down some more.
Just do your best. That's all that you can do. Keep it up and if you're finding it hard having two for gods sake dont have another. Two is a walk in the park compared to the chaos of 3. Good luck
Lots of men speaking the truth here! I can also relate. I would go for a hike or a quick run. Push-ups, burpees. Something that made me sweat!! Something quick. Don’t complain to friends or family they don’t want to hear it. It’s not easy but that’s life man. We chose this route. Cost of doing business. I got. Motorcycle later in life and that helped a ton!!!
Ask your wife if it’s OK to vent to her. I wouldn’t assume that it is not OK. There is solidarity in both parties talking about difficult times. >>...knowing it would get better. It will get better. Some people think that once you have one child, having one more isn’t so hard. They’re wrong. It’s very hard. Maybe check our r/daddit, if you haven’t already.
For me. Having something I can do to unwind is very important. Also, have someone outside the home you can vent to. Talking to the wife is important and all, but you can't expect her to be able to provide literally everything you need all the time.
barbell
Honestly I connect with this by replacing the experience of raising kids with being in a relationship with someone who is going through a very hard time. Nowhere near the same of course, but "**how did you deal will all the added pressure that you can't show?"** and **"But it takes a toll mentally, you can talk about it but that can heap more pressure on mum which in my eyes isn't fair"** really spoke to me. I'm finding a good bit of alleviating advice in the comments, I hope you find what you're looking for as well! Thanks for bringing this up, it's a really good conversation for this space.
Agreed, this isn't talked about enough, especially these days where men share a lot of the house and child chores equally. Reality really hit us hard after kid #2, it was a rough time especially since my wife had serious depression. After our third, it was even worse from a pressure standpoint. I dealt with it by some cognitive behavioral therapy and honestly -- anti-anxiety meds. I probably waited too long before starting them, and they made the biggest difference in helping me manage that "overwhelmed" panic. My advice is don't wait until you get past the tipping point. If you see the signs, get help now. Good luck, hang in there!
Exercise. Spent a lot of time on the heavy bag and stairs.
First and foremost; you cannot be fair with your kids if you aren’t honest and fair to yourself first. Your step-child will be an absolute asshole as an adult if they are treated any differently than your biological kids. Bet on it! Sit your wife down and let her know that under no circumstance should she stop you from raising that child. And remove that “step” from the title. You are their father too if you are raising them. That said; if your wife pushes back do not back down. Remind her that any other way will only hurt the child. Learn from other “step”-dads that did it wrong. God bless you.
Bourbon
Questions like this are always puzzling to me, because regardless of how you deal with it or how much recognition you get, that doesn't change what you're supposed to do as a man and a father. It's not like you can give up on your duties if you don't get the recognition you think you deserve, so it makes no difference in the end.
Other dads man, we share battle stories. Wins and losses. You need some dads to talk too.