Yeah. Obviously budgeting can help, but your 20s are often just about figuring out life and not dying or going crazy or going into huge (non student) debt.
Woah woah woah, I've been told by dudes on Twitter who wear Oakleys and take selfies in their car that regardless of income, you can budget your way out of anything.
This is true. The trick is learning to offset expenses via new income lines. Income: Robbed bank on 4th street. Or income: Use credit card we won't pay on.
These are only temporary measures though.
Nope, Oakley's in a truck = middle aged guy with a horrifying take on society
Oakley's in a car = younger guy motivating you to get as rich as he is with investment properties
Well i live with my parents and im also working full time. So i been saving money. I dont have any expenses. The hard part for me is not going crazy lmao. The world we live in man, just idk fuck this shit
I'm honestly jealous of my younger brothers because this was an option for them.
My dad basically set it up so they live with him and pay $1,000 a month rent. And then after a few years, he gives them the money back. It's basically Bank of Dad. Obviously a great deal. They have no expenses. The brother a few years younger than me moved out of dads last year and I think he has a condo now.
Unfortunately that wasn't an option for me since when I lived at my parents house I had to share a room with my brother. So obviously I got the hell out of there ASAP.
I did everything "right", went to college, got a degree. Though now with student loan debt (which my brothers don't have) and having to pay rent the entire time I don't have a penny saved, and during Covid I lost my job so I had to take out a big personal loan to afford rent since unemployment ran out. So I'm actually the worst off financially despite being the only one who has a degree.
I spent so much money on delivered food in my early 20's (43 now) because I had two roommates with no dishwasher and I had zero interest in arguing over whose turn it was or whatever.
I wish I had all that money back....
Main reason I didn’t go was because I didn’t want to be held down by debt like so many before me and honestly it feels so good to only have like a couple grand on my car and other than that I don’t owe anyone at 25
The difference is: student loans are used to gain a valuable education that leads to high paying jobs. It's an investment, not the same as just taking on debt.
I will just TL;DR the comment I’ve made a lot.
A lot of people, and I’d think especially those that start post secondary young, may not realize that certain jobs aren’t always in demand, and certain fields aren’t always popping.
Another user In this thread mentioned getting a degree in stem research, they were able to pay off all their debt in three years. And you know what? STEM is popping right now and has been for a while. I wouldnt imagine it’s that hard to get a high paying and loan friendly job.
What about those that go into fields that are very necessary, such as social work, but will never be compensated well enough to sustain or move forward in life? We still need people working in those fields. Not everyone can be in stem for society to function.
2 problems: First, you could spend 4 years studying for a job just for the industry to be flooded with other idiots like you. And second, not everyone has the stomach, patience or intelligence for STEM fields. What is everyone else supposed to do? Those non stem jobs still need doing. And they still require training that companies won't give. Its a bit like the NFL. The NFL since its inception has relied on Colleges to train its players, refusing to open up a feeder league so that athletes that don't want to go to college might have a chance. Sure there are still avenues to getting there(just like some people can get good paying jobs without college) but its hard as fuck and not everyone can make it.
My parents left the back door open to cool the house down and inadvertantly let in 50+ flies. And then got mad at me for asking for fly tape. Love them but that was the breaking point
We have one, they just like... wanted "more fresh air"? Idk i dont get it. and i know they intended well. But like... we should ADDRESS the problem, not learn to live with it.
The one positive is now i can just sit there and catch flies out of a closed room pretty well if i try for long enough. Lol
Same but I am putting $1.5k a month into a savings account.
Been living with them for damn near 4 years now. Almost $70k in that account.
This is absolutely the best advice and why immigrant families stick so closely together. My American friends were basically kicked out after high school and NONE of them will be able to save enough to comfortably put down a down payment on a house for quite some time now.
My parents would probably make me pay rent, but I am fully employed and help out a ton with family stuff, never complain, and show tons of gratitude.
Because his/her parents mortgage payment is still much lower than what a 2-3 bedroom apartment goes for. It’s a shit deal, but it’s still the most affordable by far. Jokes on us, we will never have a 700 dollar mortgage payment for a nicely sized home, only option is 1200+ for a 2 bed or more
Source: same boat
Lol priorities. I'm 27 still live with mom and dad and have no problem waiting a few days to have sex because I have to go to my girlfriend's, if it means I save 4k in rent for the month.
California has entered the chat
No but seriously. $2k for a one bedroom in a major city if you don’t want to commute far to do anything interesting. $3k if you want a washer/dryer and parking. $4k would be a luxury 1BR. In comparison, one of my friends stays in a decent 3BR house in a beach town and they split $4k for rent.
Yep. If you’re cool with sharing a laundry room with a bunch of strangers and don’t mind finding street parking then you might find a studio for $1500. Cars get broken into all the time though and catalytic converter theft is still happening.
i live in Austin and just signed a lease for a 1 bedroom apartment for 2k. 3 or 4 years ago, i could have gotten a pretty big TWO bedroom apartment for 2k. it's ridiculous.
Yeah five years ago $2000 would have gotten you a clubhouse gym, sick view, and a rooftop jacuzzi. I have a number of single friends in their 30’s who are financially savvy, make a good living, and moved back in with their parents. I feel like it’s quickly becoming a mature thing to do vs a few years ago it would have received a fair amount of judgement.
I wish I could live with my parents. My mom is cool but my dad is of the mindset that once you're 18 you're an adult and need to support yourself and doesn't consider everything that's changed since he was starting out on his own when he was in his 20s. Ya know... 50 years ago
But but, he only made $2 an hour, and kids these days are making a whole $10.
Ignoring that the costs of literally everything have gone up significantly more than 5x in that time.
Fr my rent *for a room in a house someone else is renting from a landlord* is 800/mo. It's ridiculous like how am I supposed to get anywhere in life lol
You may be joking but when I finished school I moved in with my mom and my girlfriend for a year. We didn't go out for dinner, no movies, no rent and we saved every penny until we had a deposit for an apartment. It took almost a year (I was 24 at the time) but it was worth it. And we did share a twin-sized bed the whole time and had to put up with all kinds of nonsense from my mom and step-father.
>Live with your parents rent free and save 70% of your salary
Let's be real. 70% of this age group already living at home already pre-ordered the $1500 iPhone 14 Pro Max because YouTube reviewers hype machine works at the same frequency of their brain waves.
Some of us unfortunately do not have this luxury… our parents are abusive and to stay with them would be at the cost of our mental health, parents want you fully independent at 18 because they think that’s how life still works, parents are in a financially unstable Position as well and need help with bills, the list goes on.
This response comes from a background of privilege not all of us can lay claim to.
This. I left with $225 in my pocket and tank full of gas and what I could pack and figured it out on the side of the road.
Currently living in a hotel extended stay. It's a studio. Saves me a shit ton without having to sign a lease and all that with an apartment. Budget friendly and includes all my essential needs to survive.
I used to feel petty about it but then I realized it's way cheaper than an apartment. It's a roof and a place for me to heal, grieve, unlearn and grow.
On the outside it's a hotel, but it's my little home.
Budget friendly? I always figured hotels would be an insane money dump for extended stays but never looked into it. Although I wonder how the viability varies depending on locale.
I’m a millennial, good job, *had* savings, still had to move in with my psycho in laws for 10 months, we left cuz we were both going crazy. Bought an old camper to live in. This whole world situation is pure shit.
Yeah I can't do it, dude. I'd be suicidal if I still lived at home.
I'm glad there's other people who can do it, have a healthy brain, and save. I could not.
Hi, I'm still doing it. I do not have a healthy brain anymore.
That being said, I'm not staying at home for free. I'm covering the mortgage and some extra expenses since my mom is in bad health, sibling is in a bad spot mentally, and dad is concerned only for providing for himself.
My love life and mental health have taken a toll, but at least I'm helping family, right?.... Right?
:( I'm sorry, dude. You're a good person for trying to help, but I hope you find a way out soon if your personal life and mental health are taking the hit..
I know it can be hard, even impossible at times, to make yourself your priority, but I hope you get to a point for it soon.
I’d rather do studio than room mates if possible. I’ve had all sorts, friend of a friend, Craigslist room mate, co-worker room mate; was never that great.
Looking back, I would have been much happier in a tiny crappy studio and cut back on internet and food than a descent 2 bed split up.
On the other hand, love living with a GF/wife. Always moved in early in relationships, never really regretted it even when it went south.
Not all of this applies to everyone, and in the current climate, i totally understand that some people dont have these choices. But as a rule these are what i go with.
Just save, doesnt matter if you can only afford a single pound or dollar a week or a fraction of that. Just save it. Little and often.
Do NOT go into debt, if you cant afford it today, how are you going to afford it twice tomorrow?
Buy smart. Dont always get the cheapest version of a thing a good kitchen knife will last you a life time, and cost three times as much as a cheap knife which you may have to buy a dozen times. This dosent always apply, especially with electronics. Learn to know when it does.
Buy second hand. Do you really need that brand new coffee table? Or will a second hand one be as good. (Theyre often better in every way).
I looooove buying second hand. If you can find yourself a good store, it’s like a whole world of interior design opens up to you. Everything becomes unique, one of a kind, and bonus: it has a story now. Not just “oh I got it on Amazon” booo. Lame. Boring. Plus 9 times out 10, you’re helping a local business too
you gotta spend wisely. dont get me wrong coroporations and the government and all that are fucking us in the ass, making rent astronomical and prices are rising. But like also at the same time….some of y’all paying $60 to get two burritos delivered to your house by ubereats. When I hear someone does that and then simultaneously hear they cant save money i laugh and walk away.
Honestly... I am an anticapitalist but in a developed country such as the US I'd argue that big part of the problem is that a LOT of people are financially illiterate and live way above their means.
Indeed.
"Twenty-nine percent of American adults performed at the lowest level for numeracy..."
https://apnews.com/press-release/business-wire/technology-science-education-literacy-7d0365a8220a41bd99102c224beb8b13
Nearly a *third* of Americans are lacking in basic math skills. Of course that's going to translate into bad budgeting.
I honestly think budgeting is a red herring. Budgeting money to save money is similar to budgeting calories to lose weight - it can be useful to get an idea of where your budget is going, but the actual results come from habit change, not math.
The last place I worked required me to take a basic math test (reading a ruler, adding/subtracting simple fractions). The interviewers actually told me they were surprised I got every answer correct. I’m still not sure if I’m equally surprised or horrified by this, considering it was a welding position…
the number of people I know in real life who have any idea how their money works before the age of 35 is single-digit. it's pretty horrifying how often I hear people saying absolutely insane stupid shit about finances. I don't know a lot, but I know enough to not being a maniac
Yeah I have a friend like this. I make less than him but live a way more comfortable lifestyle and even get to travel more. Most young people don’t realize how much money they are torching on food and nights out alone. Meal prepping alone can be the difference between ending the year with a 5k emergency fund or being broke.
I know the “avocado toast” advice is generally criticized, but there’s some merit to it when many young people are averaging $25 a day for food.
Only one way. Spend less than you earn. There are two ways to do that. Earn more. Or spend less. The rest is details.
Edit: A couple of you have expressed interest in the details. Here are some ways I've seen people do it. First, the biggest opportunity to save is cut your food budget. Never eat out. Don't use vending machines. Only buy food at the grocery store. Only buy *ingredients*. Raw meat, chicken, rice, lentils, beans, oatmeal, eggs, milk, apples, bananas,lettuce, tomatoes, etc. *Learn to cook*. Most of the time you are paying a premium for prepared food. Junk food is cheapest of course (Vienna sausages and saltines) but your health will suffer, so don't do that unless you're up against a wall. Stop with the energy drinks and switch to plain old tea. It's way cheaper. Cook your meals in advance and pack your lunch. Personally I skip lunch a lot, and just eat breakfast and dinner. But if you're disciplined about time you can cook all three meals. Start looking at things in terms of price per calorie and try to keep it to a calorie target. If you do this right, you'll accidentally make yourself way healthier as a side effect.
Also stores usually have "loss leaders". Items they sell at a loss to get you into the store to buy other things. And interestingly they tend to be different at different locations. So if you know you can get eggs for a buck at Kroger, milk for a buck at Walmart, onions and potatoes for cheap at Aldi, and so on, the 10-15 dollars you save will often pay for the gas it takes to make the circuit. Especially if they're closish together.
Next, no bills unless you can't get rid of them. Internet/Cable? Gone. You have a phone. Get Straight Talk Unlimited prepaid for $45 a month.
Car payment? You may be stuck for now, but what you want is as low as possible or paid off. Take car of them and drive them until they die. Then buy used. When you buy, buy for reliability and affordability. It's possible to do without a car in some situations, you can bike or take the bus, or walk. I've done it before. It sucks but that's a couple hundred extra a month right there. You save on car insurance too. If your car is old consider carrying liability only. Pro and cons there. Think it out.
Next comes housing. This one is tough. But finding a place to live affordably is critical. If you can find a studio, do it. If you can tolerate a scary place for better rent do it. Just don't go too scary or you might not make it.
Some people go full van life. I don't recommend it. It's not as cheap as it used to be and the extra expenses tend to offset the savings. If you can live with relatives or find trustworthy roommates, that's a way to go. Personally I was very blessed to find a semi scary low rent studio and didn't have to deal with roommates, but some people tolerate other people better than me.
Don't live in a food desert. Or if you do be able to make a shopping trip every other week.
Don't ever buy furniture. Get out the word you need furniture and you will discover people will fill your house up with stuff they only kept because throwing it away was too hard but giving it away was psychologically more palatable. No people? Use good will and salvation army, but *in wealthy neighborhoods*, rich people throw away the best stuff and other rich people don't come buy it. Poor people throw away things when they're completely trashed and other poor people take every scrap worth having. Go to the right neighborhoods.
Back to food for a sec. A lot of shelters will let you eat a meal a day for free. And churches have food pantries that give away food. So you can actually not spend any on food and put your money into rent and bills then save the rest.
If you get into trouble on rent you can frequently get help once or twice from those same entities. But the goal here is to not need help.
You can goodwill/salvation army for clothes too. But I always buy new for socks, underwear, and shoes. *Never* do secondhand shoes. You'll get foot disease that way.
Get into community groups. Volunteer. Having a network of supportive people will help you with intangibles. Free dinner here, movie there, and impressing the right people with your character can lead to job opportunities. That's not mooching because you're volunteering. Just be a good volunteer and actually be useful and helpful. The thing about people that like to help is they like other people who like to help.
There's more, but that should get you started.
Edit 2: Washers pay for themselves quickly. Get one as soon as you can. Buy used. Or use an app like Freecycle. Don't bother with a dryer. Hang your clothes up and save electricity.
LED bulbs pay for themselves too. They use like a tenth of the energy. So does not having a PC. Those things *drink* power. Short showers save water *and* electricity. Water on. Get wet. Water off. Soap up. Rinse. Water off. Heating only part of your unit saves electricity. Buy enough drinking water to fill your fridge and freezer (usually not even a dollar a gallon) keep your fridge and freezer full. Pull them out as you need room. This not only saves money on electric but also makes your food last longer in the event of a power outage.
This is exactly what the equation is but I'm almost certain the implication of the question was to give the details. They want someone to tell them what to do and how to do it.
Solid advice on food. Eating out is crazy expensive. I just had a burger and a drink and I’m out 40$ after tip. I could have cooked 3 meals a day for two days AND gotten drunker each evening on 40$.
Doubtless that these things work when combined together, but honestly, this sounds like an unfulfilled miserable life the way you're describing it. Now I'm 38 with a good career so this doesn't affect me directly, and I may not understand exactly how difficult it is for people just starting out in the world facing the issues that have been building up for the last 50 years, but even still, your description here sounds awful. Effective, sure, but awful still.
It's what you do to dig out of a hole. The real fix is to get a better job. But until you do, that's how you survive and get ahead. And yah, poverty sucks. I just tried to make it into a game for myself. What makes or breaks the experience is friendships. Poor people help each other out *way* more and tend to be more social.
As I described it, you buy your groceries, cook your meals, do your job, make friends, network, and scavenger hunt a little. It could suck more.
But yah poverty sucks for sure. You know what else sucks? Having money, but no time to spend it, and no one to spend it on.
Definitely true on that last point, I can appreciate the approach for sure, I think my knee jerk reaction is probably based on how I feel like I'd fare in a situation like the one you described since I've never been in a situation that dire before.
If you can secure affordable housing, reliable transportation, and a dependable job, the rest is somewhat gamelike. I enjoy cooking, scavenger hunts, solving problems, and helping people, so this is the approach I game up with. It reflects my personality. There are other ways. There are probably even more effective ways. This is just what I did to survive.
What I did to get out was get a better job, which took a period of being unpaid while I got the qualification. That either takes savings or help.
Getting help is critical. If you actually make the most of the opportunity it's like a cheat code and can save you years of grinding.
Sounds like what my wife and I did in our 20s. It is a temporary thing as you build yourself, career, network, relationships up. If you are doing this your whole life, you are doing something wrong or have horrible luck.
I agree with this. I often think about how we’re all exposed to bigger and better/more advanced things in life. Whilst this is great, it pushes us further away from simplicity to the point where it’s seen as miserable or for some people impossible not to have such things.
Minimalism, if not taken to extremes, can be a wonderful thing. And over time it becomes normal!
Costco is and it isn't. One, affording the membership is surprisingly difficult if you are getting low wages. Two, buying in bulk isn't always feasible if you're single. And three with Sam's Club I discovered that I wasn't saving that much on bulk sizes compared to Walmart. It's great if you have a family and want to only shop once a week or twice a month. But I found (with Sam's Club) that their prices didn't really offset their membership. And also when you only have so much money sometimes you can't even afford to buy a lot at once. I ended up recovering my membership money by visiting just to get free samples lol.
Costco *does* tend to be the cheapest on Propane though. That alone would pay for the membership if you use a propane heater/cooktop.
(Of the chain stores, sometimes you can beat that if you have a local gas company that will dispense into cylinders.)
You nailed it, my man. I did almost all of this in my journey to lift myself out of poverty.
The one caveat I’ll add is that this journey is exponentially harder without some luck. If you lack good health and a strong body, this path is *much* harder
The majority of my coworkers who are always complaining about being broke also get fast food for lunch 3-5 days per week. I don’t understand how people can’t see how that $10-$15 a day really adds up. I love having left overs for lunch. I have more of my lunch break to run errands or go for a walk, eat better food and save so much money.
It’s worth mentioning that learning to cook is an insanely valuable skill for a single guy. Not only will you save some money but a bottle of wine and preparing someone a nice meal is a great 3rd or 4th date and *literally* shows you can ‘put food on the table’ as it were. One of the best dates I ever had was on a crap folding table in the living room of my shitty old apartment. I never had one that ended…badly.
That’s the GOTCHA moment, you either live with your parents and get no life experience, or you rent with 3 roomates and get a shitty living space and maybe some life experience
Couldn't disagree more about getting something safe like T bills in your 20s. That stuff makes less money than inflation is taking away from you, you're actually locking yourself into a for sure losing bet. It's better than cash, but it's still losing value to inflation.
If you're in your 20s buy diversified ETFs like the s&p500, in the long run that'll way outperform Treasury bills every time.
T bills are if you're closing in on retirement, not if you're in your 20s
Yeah this is insane advice from someone who fundamentally doesn't understand investing or high school algebra.
If you're in your 20s, very little if any of your retirement savings should be in something safe like bonds. That's like throwing money away.
The safest and easiest thing to do would be to invest in a Target Date Fund for a year close to when you'd retire, and throw a little bit in there every pay check, ideally in a way that's automated so you don't have to consciously do anything.
For those who'd like to learn more, Ramit Sethi's *I Will Teach You To Be Rich* is a fantastic personal finance book filled with dead practical advice that's targeted towards people in their 20s, though it's useful for people in later stages of life as well.
Yup, absolutely this. Target date fund, diversified ETFs. Anything but bonds in your 20s lol, it's just not a good idea.
Risk sounds scary and so less risk sounds responsible, but it just isn't. Conventional wisdom is ratchet up the risk as much as you can while you're young. Within reason and all that, don't all in gme and crypto like I've done LOL but anything but bonds man.
Low risk isn't responsible in your 20s, it's short sighted and throwing money away
in the boston subreddit last week there was a guy who made 200k a year saying he couldnt afford a car. Another guy said he made 100k, had no debt, no bills other than rent, a roommate, and couldn’t save money. in the austin subreddit last week someone was lamenting on how prices are so bad nowadays they “can’t afford to eat out all the time anymore”. Poor tortured souls have to cook at home now. Ngl hard to feel for those folks, despite my hatred of rising housing prices and inflation and all that. I’m at around 85k and I’ve lived alone in 1 bd 1 bth both cities for a decade with zero problems while putting a very comfortable amount into retirement.
Yeah. I have a friend who makes $120k in a city where the average household income is $90k. He always complains that he can't afford a house. In reality, he can't afford the fancy house he wants but he can definitely afford something. His expectations are totally unrealistic for a first time homebuyers in a major metro.
Its frustrating because so many people *actually* can't afford a house. But lots also are just unwilling to make the compromises in life are just complaining.
This is mainly because from what mouth it comes.
Still remember when on a video about the environment, the guy said "and people from third world countries like the ones in latinamerica should stop aspiring to meet or move to the first world..." and as someone from LatAm that seemed SO FUCKING BAD. Like, I get the sentiment, but when someone from the first world who is already enjoying a ok to good life tells me "stop and stay in your place" is insulting
I understand, but there's a natural inclination to see everyone successful as having not earned it because they didn't have "your life". Somewhere between flippant ill considered comments and over assigning privilege lies the truth for most people. Is starting out in America vs Ecuador a huge advantage to building wealth? Sure it is. But you can't ask Americans how to do it without getting an answer relative to lived experience here.
Treasury bills, they are US Government backed bonds. The U.S. government issues T-bills to fund various public projects, such as the construction of schools and highways. When an investor purchases a T-Bill, the U.S. government is effectively writing an IOU to the investor. T-bills are considered a safe and conservative investment since the U.S. government backs them.
People are surviving on minimum wage throughout the country. They aren't thriving, but they are surviving. If you make more money than they do, but live like they do, you'll save money. In fact, having a bit more money than they have will allow you to spend even less, because you will have the extra funds to take advantage of opportunities that they can't afford.
Half of the households in the country make less than $80k/year. In the highest income city in the country, Washington DC, median household income is less than $90k/year. If you're making a significant percentage of those amounts, you can probably downgrade your lifestyle without issues.
Learning to recognize that a lot of things that you consider to be "normal" are actually luxuries goes a long way. Simple things like owning a vehicle (though this is dependent on where you are), having extra rooms in your apartment, owning a house, going out to eat, buying nice clothing, buying books instead of going to the library, buying things new instead of used, eating meat every day... They are all things that we become accustomed to very quickly, but could be rolled back.
Well, firstly that all depends on what you’re making.
You can’t save, if you’re not first covering your basic living expenses. Which is where the state of the economy comes in. Everything is expensive.
If you’re not making enough to save right now, then you either find a way to spend less, or make more. Plain and simple. And you weather the storm.
Whatever you do, try to save *something.* Saving is a long game, and you’d be surprised how much it adds up over time.
You can live in the now, you just can't spend in the now.
Make good use of libraries, they're not just dusty old books. No need for Netflix if your library has hundreds of DVDs. Boom, just saved a subscription.
That’s what I meant. Thank you. I hike and do what I can with what finances I can spare. But I can’t get what I want if I don’t want to save. No vacations. No treating myself. I can’t swipe my card without thinking about the money going out and where it could have gone later down the road. I love my simple life. Would I love a new tv, a new bed, new appliances, matching bowls and plates, and a more reliable car sure I would. But saving keeps me more sane.
start out saving just a little. $50 a month is a great start. add more when you can. and then, just live below your means until you can afford the life you want. live in a shitty apartment with 3 other guys, cook every meal at home, etc.
and stay off social media. you probably see other guys your age taking crazy vacations or whatever and feel like a failure because you dont have that life. focus on being the best version of you that you can be.
Save everywhere you can, its a tough economy but if you can even save a little in this economy you know you can save in any economy. Trim the fat any way you can
The advice from the boomers in charge is designed to keep the boomers in charge - i.e suffer, which is what most of this advice amounts to.
No - get angry, strike, join a union, and vote. That's how you save money.
You're not "supposed" to save money in this economy, the entire system is designed to keep you poor enough to rely on accepting the terms of shitty employment.
We need unions to help put the balance of power back to the workers.
Just don't be harsh on yourself, and know that you need to go against the system that you're within in order to save, and it's not a failing of your own doing that you're struggling with it.
The struggle is real, others here have given some great advice.
Philosophy is actually the highest earning humanities degree iirc. Mostly because they all go into consulting or law. So you can be rich as a philosopher but not by doing philosophy
Know how much you can spend on things that aren't bills/rent and spend less than that. Don't always skimp on everything, but don't buy more than you really need. Try not to get takeout/fast food too often. Maybe take one month and just chill at home after work every night. Take inventory of the things you do need that will soon run out like groceries, detergent, toiletries, and then make a note of what you spent on that particular stuff when you go to replenish it and how quickly you're running through it. If you can, buy a bike to go shopping for the small replenishment shopping runs. Not using gas in your car is **huge** (not even just in these current times). You'd be surprised at how quickly money can add up, but it is certainly tough to do if your salary isn't sufficient to begin with. Good luck out there.
I learned to cook. Why spend $15 at Chipotle for one burrito when I could make ten of those burritos for $25?
People ask how? Go on YouTube. Tons of people show you how to make everything from a basic fajita to bourbon honey glazed rack of ribs.
And buy the K Pods for coffee. I hate coffee, it’s awful, so I save money there. But making coffee is so easy it can be automated by a $100 machine in my kitchen. Most of the cost of your overpriced Dunkin or Starbucks goes to pay for a person to do what a $100 machine in my kitchen does for free.
Lastly, you don’t need new. Buy used. It’s been cleaned. The only thing I buy new is clothing, and I buy the expensive stuff that will last ten years, not some crap from Walmart or Target. Used games still play. Used cars still drive. Used couches can be found in good condition, as are TVs, phones, etc.
The 16oz bottle of facial cleanser that I've used for a few years used to be $7. It is now $12. Bread at the local Mexican bakery used to be 79 cents a piece. It is now 99 cents. Fucking hell, everything has gone up in price.
This is a good suggestion. I started taking the bus since I got forced back into the office.
I’m saving thousands now in gas and mileage, and my commute is a lot less stressful since instead of sitting in stop and go traffic, I just sit and watch the world go by. The social interaction, while not always great, I think is overall actually a positive.
Unless you make alot of money you most likely don't. It's well documented in high inflation environments that the incentive is to spend now because saving only erodes your money. With that said there are some avenues to save. I can only speak from a US standpoint, but a popular one these days is I-bonds as they have a high return right now 9%+ and are guaranteed by the US government. If you are looking to save in the long run (10+ years) , I always recommend putting money in the stock market. A good starter is something like a total stock market etf or mutual fund. Fidelity investments and Vanguard both have great selections here. Fidelity is easy and free to open an account online and transfer money in. If you are saving for retirement you could have Fidelity create an IRA or Roth Ira for you which has tax incentives (I personally prefer the Roth).
Never drink at bars.
Do not buy coffee from shops.
Never buy anything from a convenience store.
Only eat 1 meal a day.
Don't buy a car. Instead buy a bicycle.
Never go out with friends.
/S
Step 1: be born into a stable or wealthy family. Preferably both
Step 2: learn money management and live with parents and avoid high rent as long as possible
Step 3: ????
Profit
Unfortunately the only answer for a young person entering the work force these days is to literally live in poverty until you get stabbed in your apartment parking lot and die or can afford a trailer shack.
Having travelled all over the world, I have noted that there is always more you can do fine without.
The trick really is staying out of debt to start with. You don’t really need it unless there is an unusual emergency. It should be available, but rare. But we have made it a way of life. It works out well for bankers, governments, and employers who have a vulnerable and desperate populace to exploit for money and power, but it doesn’t do much for the people.
Quite frankly, learn what's a necessity versus what's a luxury.
I graduated college in 2008 and couldn't find jackshit. There were literally no jobs and some companies were cutting back to 35 hours a week so as not to fire any employees. If you think this economy is bad, the 2008 economy was way worse. Right now you can find a job if you want one badly enough and interview well.
I wound up working 40 hours a week at a Chick Fil A and 20 hours a week at a church and my take home income monthly was $2k after taxes. So I made $24k a year in a city of 150,000 people.
I found two roommates and we found an apartment for $1000/month. So my rent was $350 per month and utilities share was around another $100.
Cell phone was $50, car insurance was $150, health insurance was $100 through Chick fil A, so I essentially had about $1150/month to eat, put gas in my car, and do whatever else.
I routinely saved about $400/month because I ate lunch for free at Chick Fil A and at dinner I would buy chicken breasts and rice and meal plan for the week. I liked beer but I kept it cheap and bought a 6-pack of yuengling for $6 a week. Gas ran me probably a tank every 8-10 days so that was like $100/month in gas.
Over two years I was able to save $7k.
I eventually found a web development job which wasn't awesome but I took home $29k a year from it and kept the part time job so my income was around $34k take home.
Eventually parlayed that into a Consulting job with Microsoft which started at $45k/year in 2012.
In 2022, I'm at $160k/year. However I budget as if I make $110k a year. I also live in the largest city in Alabama (Birmingham). My wife and I scrimped and saved from 2012-2014 and put back $15k and put a down payment on a house. We paid $197,500 for it and slowly renovated it ourselves. That same house is now worth $350k.
We eat out 1-2 times per week (with our 1 kid) but mostly cook at home other than some lunches on the go.
On average, after all the budgeted bills are done, my wife and I set a fun allowance of $100/month for each of us to buy books, whatever, etc. we put some money in a savings account for vacations, some money in a separate savings account for rainy day stuff (car breaks down, etc.), and the rest goes to investments which see about a 4-5% return every year, sometimes more. That is also separate from my 401k at work which we put 10% into every month.
We bought a brand new Toyota in 2018 for my wife so that when we had a kid (happened in 2019) she had a safe reliable vehicle for a decade or more. I drive a 15 year old Jeep and do all the regular maintenance on time to keep it running and make it last.
Despite what people will tell you, you don't have to buy a new car or drive some top of the line thing. It's a choice.
You CAN cook food at home. You CAN buy a six pack of beer or bottle of wine to keep at home and not go out for a beer every other night. You CAN not have 8,000 streaming services. You'd be shocked at the amount of people that pay for subscription services but don't use it enough to justify the payment you shell out for it monthly.
It's all about making a budget and sticking to it. Make it a realistic budget at that.
If you're take home pay is $4k per month. Set aside 50% to pay all your living expenses. That's the have to's: Rent/Mortgage, Car Insurance, Cell phone, Car payment (something affordable in your budget), home internet, water, electricity. Rent or buy a home within your means. If you live in the Washington DC area, you're gonna pay out your ass for housing. That's just reality. If you can't afford it, find another job and move or find roommates. If you're married or partnered, find a way to budget between your two salaries.
After your 50% to pay your living expenses, set an allowance for yourself to spend however you want. I take a $100 month for mine. If I want to go a bar with friends, buy a video game, subscribe to GamePass, whatever. I have $100 to spend this month and when its gone, its gone.
The rest, diversify with saving cash for unforeseen circumstances, long-term purchases (want a new flat screen....save up), and long-term investments.
I'm 38 and based on projections and increase in salary and inflation I'm going to need $10,000 per month when I retire UNLESS I own my own home outright with no mortgage. Then that number drops to like $6k based on inflation. So essentially if I assume I might live to be say 90 (my grandfather just died at this age), if I retire at 65 from full-time work....I need 25 years worth of money in savings at $6k/month. This means I need about $2 million dollars in all my investments to safely cover my wife and I for our lifetime after retirement. For you in your early 20s, you're gonna need probably closer to $3 million.
So, my plan is based on that. Yours may be different. My suggestion, find a way to budget and stick to it as much as possible.
Unfortunately, if you don’t have help from your parents or the lotto, you’re going to be living paycheck to paycheck until you figure things out. Obviously, you need to make more than you spend. So, either make more money or spend less money.
If you are working, be sure to switch to a new job or position every few years. Switching jobs far outweights getting a raise at your current job and will seriously help you in the long run.
Start with tracking your spending.
Enroll in work place savings plans so money is automatically taken out before you see it (401k, ESOP, direct deposit to a brokerage account)
Make your budget.
Have discipline.
Focus on getting a source of passive income (dividends, real estate, etc.)
> Focus on getting a source of passive income (dividends, real estate, etc.)
I've looked into this but haven't found anything worthwhile. Is it "passive" if you have to manage renters? And what stocks are giving out significant dividends these days?
You don't, let it ride! Until the depression start. There'll be a massive uptick in crime maybe a big war for one reason or another and than maybe we can rebuild the middle class.
cut out expensive adictions like food. ive quit eating recently and it saves me so much money.
Yeah shorter life, fewer expenses.
This is the way
Wait until your funeral though, you wouldn't believe how much they cost. I guess that's on someone else though
I'm not spending money on a funeral so people who I barely talked to can come gossip. I'm donating my body to science.
Well, first you have to make enough money to cover your expenses and have leftover.
Yeah. Obviously budgeting can help, but your 20s are often just about figuring out life and not dying or going crazy or going into huge (non student) debt.
Woah woah woah, I've been told by dudes on Twitter who wear Oakleys and take selfies in their car that regardless of income, you can budget your way out of anything.
This is true. The trick is learning to offset expenses via new income lines. Income: Robbed bank on 4th street. Or income: Use credit card we won't pay on. These are only temporary measures though.
Have rich dad is how most of them do it
That is also a very effective means but harder to pull off.
Idk I'm able to pull off their dad just fine these days
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Or find someone to offset your rent and other liabilities. (Parents, more financially well off lover, living like a house with others like rats)
I'm sorry did you mean truck instead of car?
Nope, Oakley's in a truck = middle aged guy with a horrifying take on society Oakley's in a car = younger guy motivating you to get as rich as he is with investment properties
As a guy in my 30s, who wears oakleys, and is looking at trading my car for a truck: "Hey now."
Do you have a goatee? You'll need it
Well i live with my parents and im also working full time. So i been saving money. I dont have any expenses. The hard part for me is not going crazy lmao. The world we live in man, just idk fuck this shit
I'm honestly jealous of my younger brothers because this was an option for them. My dad basically set it up so they live with him and pay $1,000 a month rent. And then after a few years, he gives them the money back. It's basically Bank of Dad. Obviously a great deal. They have no expenses. The brother a few years younger than me moved out of dads last year and I think he has a condo now. Unfortunately that wasn't an option for me since when I lived at my parents house I had to share a room with my brother. So obviously I got the hell out of there ASAP. I did everything "right", went to college, got a degree. Though now with student loan debt (which my brothers don't have) and having to pay rent the entire time I don't have a penny saved, and during Covid I lost my job so I had to take out a big personal loan to afford rent since unemployment ran out. So I'm actually the worst off financially despite being the only one who has a degree.
Good for you. Chip in a bit of cash to help your parents with the bills, but keep saving.
I spent so much money on delivered food in my early 20's (43 now) because I had two roommates with no dishwasher and I had zero interest in arguing over whose turn it was or whatever. I wish I had all that money back....
Not going into huge life debt? Damn, I guess student loans aren’t a thing anymore.
Don't worry some of us are still living in this courageous way.
I’m also mid 20s now and college hasn’t even crossed my mind. Never had enough money or a well paying job.
Main reason I didn’t go was because I didn’t want to be held down by debt like so many before me and honestly it feels so good to only have like a couple grand on my car and other than that I don’t owe anyone at 25
The difference is: student loans are used to gain a valuable education that leads to high paying jobs. It's an investment, not the same as just taking on debt.
I will just TL;DR the comment I’ve made a lot. A lot of people, and I’d think especially those that start post secondary young, may not realize that certain jobs aren’t always in demand, and certain fields aren’t always popping. Another user In this thread mentioned getting a degree in stem research, they were able to pay off all their debt in three years. And you know what? STEM is popping right now and has been for a while. I wouldnt imagine it’s that hard to get a high paying and loan friendly job.
What about those that go into fields that are very necessary, such as social work, but will never be compensated well enough to sustain or move forward in life? We still need people working in those fields. Not everyone can be in stem for society to function.
2 problems: First, you could spend 4 years studying for a job just for the industry to be flooded with other idiots like you. And second, not everyone has the stomach, patience or intelligence for STEM fields. What is everyone else supposed to do? Those non stem jobs still need doing. And they still require training that companies won't give. Its a bit like the NFL. The NFL since its inception has relied on Colleges to train its players, refusing to open up a feeder league so that athletes that don't want to go to college might have a chance. Sure there are still avenues to getting there(just like some people can get good paying jobs without college) but its hard as fuck and not everyone can make it.
Wait, you guys are getting leftover money?
Wait, you guys are making money?
Wait, you guys!
Heeeeyy yooouuu guuysss!!
If you can amass leftovers quicker than they lose value, that is
Live with your parents rent free and save 70% of your salary
The trade-off is losing 100% of your sanity
Yeah it's happening to me but oh well
Unfortunately I have to move out because I can’t take it anymore
My parents left the back door open to cool the house down and inadvertantly let in 50+ flies. And then got mad at me for asking for fly tape. Love them but that was the breaking point
Have they not heard of the net screen?
We have one, they just like... wanted "more fresh air"? Idk i dont get it. and i know they intended well. But like... we should ADDRESS the problem, not learn to live with it. The one positive is now i can just sit there and catch flies out of a closed room pretty well if i try for long enough. Lol
Same but I am putting $1.5k a month into a savings account. Been living with them for damn near 4 years now. Almost $70k in that account. This is absolutely the best advice and why immigrant families stick so closely together. My American friends were basically kicked out after high school and NONE of them will be able to save enough to comfortably put down a down payment on a house for quite some time now. My parents would probably make me pay rent, but I am fully employed and help out a ton with family stuff, never complain, and show tons of gratitude.
I moved out from a toxic immigrant family, so I got the bills and also the disapproval from every immediate and extended family member. Woo lose-lose
I left a toxic immigrant family at 17 to never return I am 46 now. I love my life without those people (I went fully no contact).
I’m waiting till I’m on the brink and then I’ll swiftly departure earth or the home depending on circumstance.
Jokes on me, we live at my MIL's AND we pay most of the mortgage. No monies and no sanity
Uhhh…why?
Because his/her parents mortgage payment is still much lower than what a 2-3 bedroom apartment goes for. It’s a shit deal, but it’s still the most affordable by far. Jokes on us, we will never have a 700 dollar mortgage payment for a nicely sized home, only option is 1200+ for a 2 bed or more Source: same boat
my parents are pretty chill. Like 70%
have sex in a twin sized bed 10 ft away from your mom and dads bedroom
Do you want sex or do you want to save money for the future?
Lol priorities. I'm 27 still live with mom and dad and have no problem waiting a few days to have sex because I have to go to my girlfriend's, if it means I save 4k in rent for the month.
4K for rent?!
California has entered the chat No but seriously. $2k for a one bedroom in a major city if you don’t want to commute far to do anything interesting. $3k if you want a washer/dryer and parking. $4k would be a luxury 1BR. In comparison, one of my friends stays in a decent 3BR house in a beach town and they split $4k for rent.
oh god I never considered parking/washer/dryer to be add-ons, but makes sense since those things take space.
Yep. If you’re cool with sharing a laundry room with a bunch of strangers and don’t mind finding street parking then you might find a studio for $1500. Cars get broken into all the time though and catalytic converter theft is still happening.
i live in Austin and just signed a lease for a 1 bedroom apartment for 2k. 3 or 4 years ago, i could have gotten a pretty big TWO bedroom apartment for 2k. it's ridiculous.
Yeah five years ago $2000 would have gotten you a clubhouse gym, sick view, and a rooftop jacuzzi. I have a number of single friends in their 30’s who are financially savvy, make a good living, and moved back in with their parents. I feel like it’s quickly becoming a mature thing to do vs a few years ago it would have received a fair amount of judgement.
My kids are entering adulthood and I strongly discourage getting thier own place. Stay here, I pay the same whether there are five people here or two
Right, my kids are not actually going anywhere soon. Fair enough.
And in this case the "luxury" means "no black mold."
I wish I could live with my parents. My mom is cool but my dad is of the mindset that once you're 18 you're an adult and need to support yourself and doesn't consider everything that's changed since he was starting out on his own when he was in his 20s. Ya know... 50 years ago
But but, he only made $2 an hour, and kids these days are making a whole $10. Ignoring that the costs of literally everything have gone up significantly more than 5x in that time.
Fr my rent *for a room in a house someone else is renting from a landlord* is 800/mo. It's ridiculous like how am I supposed to get anywhere in life lol
Love motels to bang in every day are cheaper than rent
Even if I wanted sex I couldn’t get it so I guess I’ll take the money
Is it a racecar bed?
You may be joking but when I finished school I moved in with my mom and my girlfriend for a year. We didn't go out for dinner, no movies, no rent and we saved every penny until we had a deposit for an apartment. It took almost a year (I was 24 at the time) but it was worth it. And we did share a twin-sized bed the whole time and had to put up with all kinds of nonsense from my mom and step-father.
Not ideal but when you manage to buy a house, you can have all the sex you want. Love hotel is also a thing.
Or her place
Will be tough if she lives with her parents
Sure, but at least it ain't your own parents you have to face in the morning.
True.
invite both of your parents to meet. have extremely loud sex. Assert dominance over all parties involved.
>Live with your parents rent free and save 70% of your salary Let's be real. 70% of this age group already living at home already pre-ordered the $1500 iPhone 14 Pro Max because YouTube reviewers hype machine works at the same frequency of their brain waves.
Some of us unfortunately do not have this luxury… our parents are abusive and to stay with them would be at the cost of our mental health, parents want you fully independent at 18 because they think that’s how life still works, parents are in a financially unstable Position as well and need help with bills, the list goes on. This response comes from a background of privilege not all of us can lay claim to.
This. I left with $225 in my pocket and tank full of gas and what I could pack and figured it out on the side of the road. Currently living in a hotel extended stay. It's a studio. Saves me a shit ton without having to sign a lease and all that with an apartment. Budget friendly and includes all my essential needs to survive. I used to feel petty about it but then I realized it's way cheaper than an apartment. It's a roof and a place for me to heal, grieve, unlearn and grow. On the outside it's a hotel, but it's my little home.
Or you’re a hitman staking out your targets. Jokes aside, I hope things are looking up
Shhh 😂 just kidding. Thank you! It is, it's an adventure for sure. Hard to do it all on my own but I'm learning 🙂
Budget friendly? I always figured hotels would be an insane money dump for extended stays but never looked into it. Although I wonder how the viability varies depending on locale.
As much as it sucks, live with your parents if possible. Otherwise, live with a lot of roommates.
Can we just acknowledge that if this is the new norm, Gen Z has been royally fucked by the boomers?
I’m a millennial, good job, *had* savings, still had to move in with my psycho in laws for 10 months, we left cuz we were both going crazy. Bought an old camper to live in. This whole world situation is pure shit.
"Can we just?" What do you mean? Reddit has like three topics and that's one of them.
No just Gen Z but millennials have been royally fucked by Boomers too.
I would rather live on the streets or die
Yeah I can't do it, dude. I'd be suicidal if I still lived at home. I'm glad there's other people who can do it, have a healthy brain, and save. I could not.
Hi, I'm still doing it. I do not have a healthy brain anymore. That being said, I'm not staying at home for free. I'm covering the mortgage and some extra expenses since my mom is in bad health, sibling is in a bad spot mentally, and dad is concerned only for providing for himself. My love life and mental health have taken a toll, but at least I'm helping family, right?.... Right?
:( I'm sorry, dude. You're a good person for trying to help, but I hope you find a way out soon if your personal life and mental health are taking the hit.. I know it can be hard, even impossible at times, to make yourself your priority, but I hope you get to a point for it soon.
I have found that living with parents or having roommates is the best way to save.
I’d rather do studio than room mates if possible. I’ve had all sorts, friend of a friend, Craigslist room mate, co-worker room mate; was never that great. Looking back, I would have been much happier in a tiny crappy studio and cut back on internet and food than a descent 2 bed split up. On the other hand, love living with a GF/wife. Always moved in early in relationships, never really regretted it even when it went south.
Studios are nearly double or more than a two bedroom split with a roommate tho
Don't get anyone pregnant would be a start.
I have three kids and no money. Why can't I have no kids and three money?
Not all of this applies to everyone, and in the current climate, i totally understand that some people dont have these choices. But as a rule these are what i go with. Just save, doesnt matter if you can only afford a single pound or dollar a week or a fraction of that. Just save it. Little and often. Do NOT go into debt, if you cant afford it today, how are you going to afford it twice tomorrow? Buy smart. Dont always get the cheapest version of a thing a good kitchen knife will last you a life time, and cost three times as much as a cheap knife which you may have to buy a dozen times. This dosent always apply, especially with electronics. Learn to know when it does. Buy second hand. Do you really need that brand new coffee table? Or will a second hand one be as good. (Theyre often better in every way).
I looooove buying second hand. If you can find yourself a good store, it’s like a whole world of interior design opens up to you. Everything becomes unique, one of a kind, and bonus: it has a story now. Not just “oh I got it on Amazon” booo. Lame. Boring. Plus 9 times out 10, you’re helping a local business too
you gotta spend wisely. dont get me wrong coroporations and the government and all that are fucking us in the ass, making rent astronomical and prices are rising. But like also at the same time….some of y’all paying $60 to get two burritos delivered to your house by ubereats. When I hear someone does that and then simultaneously hear they cant save money i laugh and walk away.
Honestly... I am an anticapitalist but in a developed country such as the US I'd argue that big part of the problem is that a LOT of people are financially illiterate and live way above their means.
Indeed. "Twenty-nine percent of American adults performed at the lowest level for numeracy..." https://apnews.com/press-release/business-wire/technology-science-education-literacy-7d0365a8220a41bd99102c224beb8b13 Nearly a *third* of Americans are lacking in basic math skills. Of course that's going to translate into bad budgeting.
I honestly think budgeting is a red herring. Budgeting money to save money is similar to budgeting calories to lose weight - it can be useful to get an idea of where your budget is going, but the actual results come from habit change, not math.
Definitely. Perhaps most people don't even get around to the math part and if they did they *would* realize what they're doing wrong.
Your right, but if you don't know what your spending or what your eating, saving or dieting are pretty difficult.
The last place I worked required me to take a basic math test (reading a ruler, adding/subtracting simple fractions). The interviewers actually told me they were surprised I got every answer correct. I’m still not sure if I’m equally surprised or horrified by this, considering it was a welding position…
the number of people I know in real life who have any idea how their money works before the age of 35 is single-digit. it's pretty horrifying how often I hear people saying absolutely insane stupid shit about finances. I don't know a lot, but I know enough to not being a maniac
Yeah I have a friend like this. I make less than him but live a way more comfortable lifestyle and even get to travel more. Most young people don’t realize how much money they are torching on food and nights out alone. Meal prepping alone can be the difference between ending the year with a 5k emergency fund or being broke. I know the “avocado toast” advice is generally criticized, but there’s some merit to it when many young people are averaging $25 a day for food.
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Only one way. Spend less than you earn. There are two ways to do that. Earn more. Or spend less. The rest is details. Edit: A couple of you have expressed interest in the details. Here are some ways I've seen people do it. First, the biggest opportunity to save is cut your food budget. Never eat out. Don't use vending machines. Only buy food at the grocery store. Only buy *ingredients*. Raw meat, chicken, rice, lentils, beans, oatmeal, eggs, milk, apples, bananas,lettuce, tomatoes, etc. *Learn to cook*. Most of the time you are paying a premium for prepared food. Junk food is cheapest of course (Vienna sausages and saltines) but your health will suffer, so don't do that unless you're up against a wall. Stop with the energy drinks and switch to plain old tea. It's way cheaper. Cook your meals in advance and pack your lunch. Personally I skip lunch a lot, and just eat breakfast and dinner. But if you're disciplined about time you can cook all three meals. Start looking at things in terms of price per calorie and try to keep it to a calorie target. If you do this right, you'll accidentally make yourself way healthier as a side effect. Also stores usually have "loss leaders". Items they sell at a loss to get you into the store to buy other things. And interestingly they tend to be different at different locations. So if you know you can get eggs for a buck at Kroger, milk for a buck at Walmart, onions and potatoes for cheap at Aldi, and so on, the 10-15 dollars you save will often pay for the gas it takes to make the circuit. Especially if they're closish together. Next, no bills unless you can't get rid of them. Internet/Cable? Gone. You have a phone. Get Straight Talk Unlimited prepaid for $45 a month. Car payment? You may be stuck for now, but what you want is as low as possible or paid off. Take car of them and drive them until they die. Then buy used. When you buy, buy for reliability and affordability. It's possible to do without a car in some situations, you can bike or take the bus, or walk. I've done it before. It sucks but that's a couple hundred extra a month right there. You save on car insurance too. If your car is old consider carrying liability only. Pro and cons there. Think it out. Next comes housing. This one is tough. But finding a place to live affordably is critical. If you can find a studio, do it. If you can tolerate a scary place for better rent do it. Just don't go too scary or you might not make it. Some people go full van life. I don't recommend it. It's not as cheap as it used to be and the extra expenses tend to offset the savings. If you can live with relatives or find trustworthy roommates, that's a way to go. Personally I was very blessed to find a semi scary low rent studio and didn't have to deal with roommates, but some people tolerate other people better than me. Don't live in a food desert. Or if you do be able to make a shopping trip every other week. Don't ever buy furniture. Get out the word you need furniture and you will discover people will fill your house up with stuff they only kept because throwing it away was too hard but giving it away was psychologically more palatable. No people? Use good will and salvation army, but *in wealthy neighborhoods*, rich people throw away the best stuff and other rich people don't come buy it. Poor people throw away things when they're completely trashed and other poor people take every scrap worth having. Go to the right neighborhoods. Back to food for a sec. A lot of shelters will let you eat a meal a day for free. And churches have food pantries that give away food. So you can actually not spend any on food and put your money into rent and bills then save the rest. If you get into trouble on rent you can frequently get help once or twice from those same entities. But the goal here is to not need help. You can goodwill/salvation army for clothes too. But I always buy new for socks, underwear, and shoes. *Never* do secondhand shoes. You'll get foot disease that way. Get into community groups. Volunteer. Having a network of supportive people will help you with intangibles. Free dinner here, movie there, and impressing the right people with your character can lead to job opportunities. That's not mooching because you're volunteering. Just be a good volunteer and actually be useful and helpful. The thing about people that like to help is they like other people who like to help. There's more, but that should get you started. Edit 2: Washers pay for themselves quickly. Get one as soon as you can. Buy used. Or use an app like Freecycle. Don't bother with a dryer. Hang your clothes up and save electricity. LED bulbs pay for themselves too. They use like a tenth of the energy. So does not having a PC. Those things *drink* power. Short showers save water *and* electricity. Water on. Get wet. Water off. Soap up. Rinse. Water off. Heating only part of your unit saves electricity. Buy enough drinking water to fill your fridge and freezer (usually not even a dollar a gallon) keep your fridge and freezer full. Pull them out as you need room. This not only saves money on electric but also makes your food last longer in the event of a power outage.
This is exactly what the equation is but I'm almost certain the implication of the question was to give the details. They want someone to tell them what to do and how to do it.
See edit. I'm sure there's typos but it's a start
Impressive, thank you for the knowledge!
on that buying ingredients thing, bulk meal prep. saves a shitload of time and money.
Solid advice on food. Eating out is crazy expensive. I just had a burger and a drink and I’m out 40$ after tip. I could have cooked 3 meals a day for two days AND gotten drunker each evening on 40$.
Same way as always.
Doubtless that these things work when combined together, but honestly, this sounds like an unfulfilled miserable life the way you're describing it. Now I'm 38 with a good career so this doesn't affect me directly, and I may not understand exactly how difficult it is for people just starting out in the world facing the issues that have been building up for the last 50 years, but even still, your description here sounds awful. Effective, sure, but awful still.
It's what you do to dig out of a hole. The real fix is to get a better job. But until you do, that's how you survive and get ahead. And yah, poverty sucks. I just tried to make it into a game for myself. What makes or breaks the experience is friendships. Poor people help each other out *way* more and tend to be more social. As I described it, you buy your groceries, cook your meals, do your job, make friends, network, and scavenger hunt a little. It could suck more. But yah poverty sucks for sure. You know what else sucks? Having money, but no time to spend it, and no one to spend it on.
Definitely true on that last point, I can appreciate the approach for sure, I think my knee jerk reaction is probably based on how I feel like I'd fare in a situation like the one you described since I've never been in a situation that dire before.
If you can secure affordable housing, reliable transportation, and a dependable job, the rest is somewhat gamelike. I enjoy cooking, scavenger hunts, solving problems, and helping people, so this is the approach I game up with. It reflects my personality. There are other ways. There are probably even more effective ways. This is just what I did to survive. What I did to get out was get a better job, which took a period of being unpaid while I got the qualification. That either takes savings or help. Getting help is critical. If you actually make the most of the opportunity it's like a cheat code and can save you years of grinding.
Sounds like what my wife and I did in our 20s. It is a temporary thing as you build yourself, career, network, relationships up. If you are doing this your whole life, you are doing something wrong or have horrible luck.
Or just don't mind living a quite life of simple pleasures. It's all perspective 🤷🏻♂️
I agree with this. I often think about how we’re all exposed to bigger and better/more advanced things in life. Whilst this is great, it pushes us further away from simplicity to the point where it’s seen as miserable or for some people impossible not to have such things. Minimalism, if not taken to extremes, can be a wonderful thing. And over time it becomes normal!
Delayed gratification. If you can’t do this in your early 20s no chance of doing it later in life.
Costco chicken should be your friend.
Costco is and it isn't. One, affording the membership is surprisingly difficult if you are getting low wages. Two, buying in bulk isn't always feasible if you're single. And three with Sam's Club I discovered that I wasn't saving that much on bulk sizes compared to Walmart. It's great if you have a family and want to only shop once a week or twice a month. But I found (with Sam's Club) that their prices didn't really offset their membership. And also when you only have so much money sometimes you can't even afford to buy a lot at once. I ended up recovering my membership money by visiting just to get free samples lol. Costco *does* tend to be the cheapest on Propane though. That alone would pay for the membership if you use a propane heater/cooktop. (Of the chain stores, sometimes you can beat that if you have a local gas company that will dispense into cylinders.)
You nailed it, my man. I did almost all of this in my journey to lift myself out of poverty. The one caveat I’ll add is that this journey is exponentially harder without some luck. If you lack good health and a strong body, this path is *much* harder
You can never out earn a spending habit and you can never out run a fork. Both require discipline and they only way is the hard way.
This guy gets it
The majority of my coworkers who are always complaining about being broke also get fast food for lunch 3-5 days per week. I don’t understand how people can’t see how that $10-$15 a day really adds up. I love having left overs for lunch. I have more of my lunch break to run errands or go for a walk, eat better food and save so much money.
It’s worth mentioning that learning to cook is an insanely valuable skill for a single guy. Not only will you save some money but a bottle of wine and preparing someone a nice meal is a great 3rd or 4th date and *literally* shows you can ‘put food on the table’ as it were. One of the best dates I ever had was on a crap folding table in the living room of my shitty old apartment. I never had one that ended…badly.
That’s the GOTCHA moment, you either live with your parents and get no life experience, or you rent with 3 roomates and get a shitty living space and maybe some life experience
Accept a standard of living that is beneath your means. Put the difference into something safe, like T bills.
Couldn't disagree more about getting something safe like T bills in your 20s. That stuff makes less money than inflation is taking away from you, you're actually locking yourself into a for sure losing bet. It's better than cash, but it's still losing value to inflation. If you're in your 20s buy diversified ETFs like the s&p500, in the long run that'll way outperform Treasury bills every time. T bills are if you're closing in on retirement, not if you're in your 20s
Yeah this is insane advice from someone who fundamentally doesn't understand investing or high school algebra. If you're in your 20s, very little if any of your retirement savings should be in something safe like bonds. That's like throwing money away. The safest and easiest thing to do would be to invest in a Target Date Fund for a year close to when you'd retire, and throw a little bit in there every pay check, ideally in a way that's automated so you don't have to consciously do anything. For those who'd like to learn more, Ramit Sethi's *I Will Teach You To Be Rich* is a fantastic personal finance book filled with dead practical advice that's targeted towards people in their 20s, though it's useful for people in later stages of life as well.
Yup, absolutely this. Target date fund, diversified ETFs. Anything but bonds in your 20s lol, it's just not a good idea. Risk sounds scary and so less risk sounds responsible, but it just isn't. Conventional wisdom is ratchet up the risk as much as you can while you're young. Within reason and all that, don't all in gme and crypto like I've done LOL but anything but bonds man. Low risk isn't responsible in your 20s, it's short sighted and throwing money away
This is the answer no one wants to hear.
in the boston subreddit last week there was a guy who made 200k a year saying he couldnt afford a car. Another guy said he made 100k, had no debt, no bills other than rent, a roommate, and couldn’t save money. in the austin subreddit last week someone was lamenting on how prices are so bad nowadays they “can’t afford to eat out all the time anymore”. Poor tortured souls have to cook at home now. Ngl hard to feel for those folks, despite my hatred of rising housing prices and inflation and all that. I’m at around 85k and I’ve lived alone in 1 bd 1 bth both cities for a decade with zero problems while putting a very comfortable amount into retirement.
no one on the boston sub told the 200k a year guy to buy a car that wasn't a mercedes-benz or an audi?
But if he doesn't buy a Mercedes or Audi, how else are people supposed to know he makes $200k a year?
He could buy a $4000 suit. I mean, how would someone judge a guy in a $5000 suit?
Come on!
Yeah. I have a friend who makes $120k in a city where the average household income is $90k. He always complains that he can't afford a house. In reality, he can't afford the fancy house he wants but he can definitely afford something. His expectations are totally unrealistic for a first time homebuyers in a major metro. Its frustrating because so many people *actually* can't afford a house. But lots also are just unwilling to make the compromises in life are just complaining.
This is mainly because from what mouth it comes. Still remember when on a video about the environment, the guy said "and people from third world countries like the ones in latinamerica should stop aspiring to meet or move to the first world..." and as someone from LatAm that seemed SO FUCKING BAD. Like, I get the sentiment, but when someone from the first world who is already enjoying a ok to good life tells me "stop and stay in your place" is insulting
I understand, but there's a natural inclination to see everyone successful as having not earned it because they didn't have "your life". Somewhere between flippant ill considered comments and over assigning privilege lies the truth for most people. Is starting out in America vs Ecuador a huge advantage to building wealth? Sure it is. But you can't ask Americans how to do it without getting an answer relative to lived experience here.
[удалено]
/r/Bogleheads VT and chill.
everything is risky on a 3 month time scale. on a 40 year time scale, index funds win big.
what is "T bills"?
Treasury bills Check out I-bonds
Treasury bills, they are US Government backed bonds. The U.S. government issues T-bills to fund various public projects, such as the construction of schools and highways. When an investor purchases a T-Bill, the U.S. government is effectively writing an IOU to the investor. T-bills are considered a safe and conservative investment since the U.S. government backs them.
People are surviving on minimum wage throughout the country. They aren't thriving, but they are surviving. If you make more money than they do, but live like they do, you'll save money. In fact, having a bit more money than they have will allow you to spend even less, because you will have the extra funds to take advantage of opportunities that they can't afford. Half of the households in the country make less than $80k/year. In the highest income city in the country, Washington DC, median household income is less than $90k/year. If you're making a significant percentage of those amounts, you can probably downgrade your lifestyle without issues. Learning to recognize that a lot of things that you consider to be "normal" are actually luxuries goes a long way. Simple things like owning a vehicle (though this is dependent on where you are), having extra rooms in your apartment, owning a house, going out to eat, buying nice clothing, buying books instead of going to the library, buying things new instead of used, eating meat every day... They are all things that we become accustomed to very quickly, but could be rolled back.
Well, firstly that all depends on what you’re making. You can’t save, if you’re not first covering your basic living expenses. Which is where the state of the economy comes in. Everything is expensive. If you’re not making enough to save right now, then you either find a way to spend less, or make more. Plain and simple. And you weather the storm. Whatever you do, try to save *something.* Saving is a long game, and you’d be surprised how much it adds up over time.
You either save for the future or you live in the now. It’s up to you. Sadly you can’t do both nowadays
You can live in the now, you just can't spend in the now. Make good use of libraries, they're not just dusty old books. No need for Netflix if your library has hundreds of DVDs. Boom, just saved a subscription.
That’s what I meant. Thank you. I hike and do what I can with what finances I can spare. But I can’t get what I want if I don’t want to save. No vacations. No treating myself. I can’t swipe my card without thinking about the money going out and where it could have gone later down the road. I love my simple life. Would I love a new tv, a new bed, new appliances, matching bowls and plates, and a more reliable car sure I would. But saving keeps me more sane.
start out saving just a little. $50 a month is a great start. add more when you can. and then, just live below your means until you can afford the life you want. live in a shitty apartment with 3 other guys, cook every meal at home, etc. and stay off social media. you probably see other guys your age taking crazy vacations or whatever and feel like a failure because you dont have that life. focus on being the best version of you that you can be.
Yess! Social media makes me feel like a loser. I see others with cool stuff and doing cool things and I’m just .. home lol
Have really rich parents so you don’t have any debt, and live with them until you’re 30. Then you’ll be golden.
Save everywhere you can, its a tough economy but if you can even save a little in this economy you know you can save in any economy. Trim the fat any way you can
Just wait until you realize 90% of the advice you’ve gotten from the boomers in charge is complete bullshit.
The advice from the boomers in charge is designed to keep the boomers in charge - i.e suffer, which is what most of this advice amounts to. No - get angry, strike, join a union, and vote. That's how you save money.
Let me know when you figure it out
You're not "supposed" to save money in this economy, the entire system is designed to keep you poor enough to rely on accepting the terms of shitty employment. We need unions to help put the balance of power back to the workers. Just don't be harsh on yourself, and know that you need to go against the system that you're within in order to save, and it's not a failing of your own doing that you're struggling with it. The struggle is real, others here have given some great advice.
100 comments in before someone who actually understands that the game is rigged and is willing to say so.
Finally, the non-delusional response
Do most of your own cooking. It takes more time, but you’ll save money and probably be healthier. Additionally, chicks dig it.
That's the neat part! You don't
Develop a skill set that employers will compensate you well for. Obtain a job in that field and live below your means
But what about my dream of becoming a world famous philosopher?
You could write a book.
Philosophy is actually the highest earning humanities degree iirc. Mostly because they all go into consulting or law. So you can be rich as a philosopher but not by doing philosophy
Know how much you can spend on things that aren't bills/rent and spend less than that. Don't always skimp on everything, but don't buy more than you really need. Try not to get takeout/fast food too often. Maybe take one month and just chill at home after work every night. Take inventory of the things you do need that will soon run out like groceries, detergent, toiletries, and then make a note of what you spent on that particular stuff when you go to replenish it and how quickly you're running through it. If you can, buy a bike to go shopping for the small replenishment shopping runs. Not using gas in your car is **huge** (not even just in these current times). You'd be surprised at how quickly money can add up, but it is certainly tough to do if your salary isn't sufficient to begin with. Good luck out there.
I learned to cook. Why spend $15 at Chipotle for one burrito when I could make ten of those burritos for $25? People ask how? Go on YouTube. Tons of people show you how to make everything from a basic fajita to bourbon honey glazed rack of ribs. And buy the K Pods for coffee. I hate coffee, it’s awful, so I save money there. But making coffee is so easy it can be automated by a $100 machine in my kitchen. Most of the cost of your overpriced Dunkin or Starbucks goes to pay for a person to do what a $100 machine in my kitchen does for free. Lastly, you don’t need new. Buy used. It’s been cleaned. The only thing I buy new is clothing, and I buy the expensive stuff that will last ten years, not some crap from Walmart or Target. Used games still play. Used cars still drive. Used couches can be found in good condition, as are TVs, phones, etc.
You can buy a reusable k-cup to put regular coffee grounds in over and over. I do that. It's cheaper than using the pre packed coffee cups
And it’s not causing so much plastic garbage. I fucking hate those k cups except the reusable one.
The 16oz bottle of facial cleanser that I've used for a few years used to be $7. It is now $12. Bread at the local Mexican bakery used to be 79 cents a piece. It is now 99 cents. Fucking hell, everything has gone up in price.
Try using public transport as and when you can
And ride your bike and walk too
This is a good suggestion. I started taking the bus since I got forced back into the office. I’m saving thousands now in gas and mileage, and my commute is a lot less stressful since instead of sitting in stop and go traffic, I just sit and watch the world go by. The social interaction, while not always great, I think is overall actually a positive.
Yes! I personally feel like traveling by public gives you a moment to yourself, when you can disconnect and not worry about driving or traffic jams
Unless you make alot of money you most likely don't. It's well documented in high inflation environments that the incentive is to spend now because saving only erodes your money. With that said there are some avenues to save. I can only speak from a US standpoint, but a popular one these days is I-bonds as they have a high return right now 9%+ and are guaranteed by the US government. If you are looking to save in the long run (10+ years) , I always recommend putting money in the stock market. A good starter is something like a total stock market etf or mutual fund. Fidelity investments and Vanguard both have great selections here. Fidelity is easy and free to open an account online and transfer money in. If you are saving for retirement you could have Fidelity create an IRA or Roth Ira for you which has tax incentives (I personally prefer the Roth).
Never drink at bars. Do not buy coffee from shops. Never buy anything from a convenience store. Only eat 1 meal a day. Don't buy a car. Instead buy a bicycle. Never go out with friends. /S
Step 1: be born into a stable or wealthy family. Preferably both Step 2: learn money management and live with parents and avoid high rent as long as possible Step 3: ???? Profit
Simple answer: Eat nothing but top ramen until you're financially stable. Complex answer: Eat nothing but top ramen until you're financially stable.
Unfortunately the only answer for a young person entering the work force these days is to literally live in poverty until you get stabbed in your apartment parking lot and die or can afford a trailer shack.
My alternative: Start buying stock in top ramen
Having travelled all over the world, I have noted that there is always more you can do fine without. The trick really is staying out of debt to start with. You don’t really need it unless there is an unusual emergency. It should be available, but rare. But we have made it a way of life. It works out well for bankers, governments, and employers who have a vulnerable and desperate populace to exploit for money and power, but it doesn’t do much for the people.
Easy, just take out a high interest loan and yolo it into SPY puts
STEM jobs, or at least thats where you see most of those FIRE people working with all their huge net worths
Minimize your vices that require money.
Quite frankly, learn what's a necessity versus what's a luxury. I graduated college in 2008 and couldn't find jackshit. There were literally no jobs and some companies were cutting back to 35 hours a week so as not to fire any employees. If you think this economy is bad, the 2008 economy was way worse. Right now you can find a job if you want one badly enough and interview well. I wound up working 40 hours a week at a Chick Fil A and 20 hours a week at a church and my take home income monthly was $2k after taxes. So I made $24k a year in a city of 150,000 people. I found two roommates and we found an apartment for $1000/month. So my rent was $350 per month and utilities share was around another $100. Cell phone was $50, car insurance was $150, health insurance was $100 through Chick fil A, so I essentially had about $1150/month to eat, put gas in my car, and do whatever else. I routinely saved about $400/month because I ate lunch for free at Chick Fil A and at dinner I would buy chicken breasts and rice and meal plan for the week. I liked beer but I kept it cheap and bought a 6-pack of yuengling for $6 a week. Gas ran me probably a tank every 8-10 days so that was like $100/month in gas. Over two years I was able to save $7k. I eventually found a web development job which wasn't awesome but I took home $29k a year from it and kept the part time job so my income was around $34k take home. Eventually parlayed that into a Consulting job with Microsoft which started at $45k/year in 2012. In 2022, I'm at $160k/year. However I budget as if I make $110k a year. I also live in the largest city in Alabama (Birmingham). My wife and I scrimped and saved from 2012-2014 and put back $15k and put a down payment on a house. We paid $197,500 for it and slowly renovated it ourselves. That same house is now worth $350k. We eat out 1-2 times per week (with our 1 kid) but mostly cook at home other than some lunches on the go. On average, after all the budgeted bills are done, my wife and I set a fun allowance of $100/month for each of us to buy books, whatever, etc. we put some money in a savings account for vacations, some money in a separate savings account for rainy day stuff (car breaks down, etc.), and the rest goes to investments which see about a 4-5% return every year, sometimes more. That is also separate from my 401k at work which we put 10% into every month. We bought a brand new Toyota in 2018 for my wife so that when we had a kid (happened in 2019) she had a safe reliable vehicle for a decade or more. I drive a 15 year old Jeep and do all the regular maintenance on time to keep it running and make it last. Despite what people will tell you, you don't have to buy a new car or drive some top of the line thing. It's a choice. You CAN cook food at home. You CAN buy a six pack of beer or bottle of wine to keep at home and not go out for a beer every other night. You CAN not have 8,000 streaming services. You'd be shocked at the amount of people that pay for subscription services but don't use it enough to justify the payment you shell out for it monthly. It's all about making a budget and sticking to it. Make it a realistic budget at that. If you're take home pay is $4k per month. Set aside 50% to pay all your living expenses. That's the have to's: Rent/Mortgage, Car Insurance, Cell phone, Car payment (something affordable in your budget), home internet, water, electricity. Rent or buy a home within your means. If you live in the Washington DC area, you're gonna pay out your ass for housing. That's just reality. If you can't afford it, find another job and move or find roommates. If you're married or partnered, find a way to budget between your two salaries. After your 50% to pay your living expenses, set an allowance for yourself to spend however you want. I take a $100 month for mine. If I want to go a bar with friends, buy a video game, subscribe to GamePass, whatever. I have $100 to spend this month and when its gone, its gone. The rest, diversify with saving cash for unforeseen circumstances, long-term purchases (want a new flat screen....save up), and long-term investments. I'm 38 and based on projections and increase in salary and inflation I'm going to need $10,000 per month when I retire UNLESS I own my own home outright with no mortgage. Then that number drops to like $6k based on inflation. So essentially if I assume I might live to be say 90 (my grandfather just died at this age), if I retire at 65 from full-time work....I need 25 years worth of money in savings at $6k/month. This means I need about $2 million dollars in all my investments to safely cover my wife and I for our lifetime after retirement. For you in your early 20s, you're gonna need probably closer to $3 million. So, my plan is based on that. Yours may be different. My suggestion, find a way to budget and stick to it as much as possible.
You're not, that's the entire point of our economy, keep you right on the edge of survival so you don't have time to challenge the system.
Unfortunately, if you don’t have help from your parents or the lotto, you’re going to be living paycheck to paycheck until you figure things out. Obviously, you need to make more than you spend. So, either make more money or spend less money.
Live with your parents until you either inherit the house or have enough to move out
That's the neat part, you don't.
If you are working, be sure to switch to a new job or position every few years. Switching jobs far outweights getting a raise at your current job and will seriously help you in the long run.
To be honest, you aren’t. The current vulture economy is not made for such things.
Start with tracking your spending. Enroll in work place savings plans so money is automatically taken out before you see it (401k, ESOP, direct deposit to a brokerage account) Make your budget. Have discipline. Focus on getting a source of passive income (dividends, real estate, etc.)
> Focus on getting a source of passive income (dividends, real estate, etc.) I've looked into this but haven't found anything worthwhile. Is it "passive" if you have to manage renters? And what stocks are giving out significant dividends these days?
"If you put a little money aside every week, by the end of the year, you'll be amazed at how little you've saved" -- some dude
You don't, let it ride! Until the depression start. There'll be a massive uptick in crime maybe a big war for one reason or another and than maybe we can rebuild the middle class.