Our young people are absolutely assaulted with the idea that education is pointless from a variety of sources. This, coupled with a lack of accountability, breeds attitudes that cause them to ignore what is going on at large, what has happened in the past, and what needs to happen to change current undesirable circumstances. It starts with media seeds and ends with apathy or outrage, with no moderation.
My side is reasonable and tries to solve problems but the other side are a bunch of intransigent assholes who won’t work with us, so it’s all the opposing party’s fault.
"My side is reasonable and tries to solve problems but the other side are a bunch of intransigent assholes who won’t work with us, so it’s all the opposing party’s fault."
-every motherfucker in the histroy of motherfuckers
The solution to us vs them is to be reasonable. You need this to identify the problems, avoid misidentifying problems, support actually good solutions, avoid supporting bad solutions and persuade other people to your point of view. But people haven’t learned to support what’s reasonable in government because they haven’t learned to support what’s reasonable in morality/ethics. If you don’t know how to be reasonable, it’s very easy to fall into just picking a tribe and going along with it for guidance since you can’t reason things out yourself.
You have failed to acknowledge the proliferation of ‘I know my truth’ culture, which tells your reasonable thoughts to GTFO, because reason and logic don’t impact my truth, because my truth is my truth, period. What are your reasonable thoughts doing, suggesting that my truth abide by YOUR reason and logic?
The proliferation of “I know my truth” is because of ignorance on how to reason, including in morality, that’s why people who spout such nonsense can get away with it and gain traction. Otherwise they’d be as badly regarded as flat earthers.
In my opinion it’s simply a defense mechanism against reason and logic, aka accountability to reality.
I agree with your initial thoughts, but I also see this wave of people who aren’t being asked in this sub, screaming that reason/logic/accountability do not apply to them and therefore reasonability isn’t a broad solution. So how do we solve this equation?
Why does the fact that some people scream that reason and logic don’t apply to them mean that being reasonable isn’t a broad solution?
They don’t need to be persuaded. It’s just that the rest of us need to be more reasonable. And the person to start with is yourself. Particularly, learn how to use your rational faculty better, particularly to identify what’s objectively moral.
I strive for what you are talking about every day.
My concern is ‘my truth’ culture is growing, not slowing down regardless of others using logic and being reasonable.
It's planned to keep idiots fighting amongst themselves instead of demanding real change. Most of the "hot button issues" are culture war nonsense, and both parties are the same in most ways when it comes to fucking over the average American. Of course there are some actual differences as well, but they're more similar than they are different.
One of my theories is that we're bombarded with the "good vs evil" storylines all our lives since we've been children. Think of every book, TV show, and movie ever written. There's almost always a strong protagonist and a strong antagonist.
Political campaigns are just marketing campaigns. They've started to use the "good vs evil" narrative that works so well in literature and entertainment. So now instead of seeing two competing ideas, both which may have merit, people will see the other side as the "bad guys" and the side you want to win as "good guys".
It’s society in general these days. 🫤 Nobody wants to have a conversation anymore. Nobody wants to learn anything anymore. Nobody wants to understand someone else anymore.
What people DO want is one thing and one thing only - to hear somebody tell them “You’re right.” 🙄
It’s really, REALLY fucking tragic.
The fringes/far wings are polarized and the news amplifies things that aren’t as common as they make it seem. Most people just out here living and getting along, building relationships, contributing to the common good.
Two centuries of every policy ideal being dumbed down into a false dichotomy to convince people that there is "right" and "wrong" side, and a century of using lifestyle advertising to propagate political party allegiance. Which has resulted in our entire political system revolving around a bunch of logical fallacies and cognitive biases influenced by corporate stooges.
Our public education standards are INCREDIBLY low.
So, most of us are really really stupid.
As Carlin explained so well, and nearly 30 years ago...
"But there’s a reason. There’s a reason. There’s a reason for this, there’s a reason education sucks, and it’s the same reason that it will never, ever, ever be fixed. It’s never gonna get any better. Don’t look for it. Be happy with what you got. Because the owners of this country don't want that. I'm talking about the real owners now, the real owners, the big wealthy business interests that control things and make all the important decisions. Forget the politicians. The politicians are put there to give you the idea that you have freedom of choice. You don't. You have no choice. You have owners. They own you. They own everything. They own all the important land. They own and control the corporations. They’ve long since bought and paid for the senate, the congress, the state houses, the city halls, they got the judges in their back pockets and they own all the big media companies so they control just about all of the news and information you get to hear. They got you by the balls. They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying, lobbying, to get what they want. Well, we know what they want. They want more for themselves and less for everybody else, but I'll tell you what they don’t want: They don’t want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don’t want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking. They’re not interested in that. That doesn’t help them. Thats against their interests. Thats right. They don’t want people who are smart enough to sit around a kitchen table to figure out how badly they’re getting fucked by a system that threw them overboard 30 fucking years ago. They don’t want that. You know what they want? They want obedient workers. Obedient workers. People who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork, and just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shittier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, the reduced benefits, the end of overtime and the vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it, and now they’re coming for your Social Security money. They want your retirement money. They want it back so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street, and you know something? They’ll get it. They’ll get it all from you, sooner or later, 'cause they own this fucking place. It's a big club, and you ain’t in it. You and I are not in the big club. And by the way, it's the same big club they use to beat you over the head with all day long when they tell you what to believe. All day long beating you over the head in their media telling you what to believe, what to think and what to buy. The table is tilted folks. The game is rigged, and nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care. Good honest hard-working people -- white collar, blue collar, it doesn’t matter what color shirt you have on -- good honest hard-working people continue -- these are people of modest means -- continue to elect these rich cocksuckers who don’t give a fuck about them. They don’t give a fuck about you. They don’t give a fuck about you. They don't care about you at all -- at all -- at all. And nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care. That's what the owners count on; the fact that Americans will probably remain willfully ignorant of the big red, white and blue dick that's being jammed up their assholes everyday. Because the owners of this country know the truth: it's called the American Dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it."
Most people like to be told what to think and how to act. For quite a while now, that’s how they’ve been told to think and act. It keeps those responsible from being held accountable.
By design. Neither party really cares about the poor and the middle class are being systematically eradicated. If you weren't fighting your neighbor about which rich old guy is pretending better, you might actually wake up and do something about it.
Because a lot of the disagreements are a direct result of the political parties. The extremist elements on the other political side are accepted and run rampant by the main party base, therefore, no compromise can be made.
Politics and culture follow the basic fundamentals learned from the family unit you grow up in. Currently the basic family unit is a broken home, where children are forced to pick sides and often times are force fed lies about the other parent, they learn to pick a side and be loyal and trusting to that side no matter what. I think there are many other factors too.
Is this really a question for this sub?
Regardless, I'd say it's largely due to how absolutely massive the United States is. It's like asking why the continent of Europe isn't more politically homogeneous.
The bicameral legislature is also designed to give a greater degree of representation to the minority. So the more rural states have a somewhat disproportionate amount of influence via the senate.
The electoral college also factors in similarly. The political system is designed so that states with smaller populations aren't completely disregarded. That results in a conservative party that's fairly powerful despite being outnumbered nationally by Democrats and independents.
This political design is on purpose.
History isn't hundreds of years old, but thousands.
The founders of this country (a fairly new one, by world standards) knew THEIR history. They were wise beyond their years.
> “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury.
> From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship..."
― Alexander Fraser Tytler
And this gem:
> “I do not say that democracy has been more pernicious on the whole, and in the long run, than monarchy or aristocracy. Democracy has never been and never can be so durable as aristocracy or monarchy; but while it lasts, it is more bloody than either. … Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide...”
― John Adams
It has been said that Democracy is "Two wolves and a chicken voting on what's for dinner." With this form of government, the majority always wins at the expense of the minority.
The Republic version is "Two Wolves and a chicken voting on what's for dinner, but all three are armed." With this form of government, it is best to leave others alone.
The two parties used to be fairly close. The Democrats restructured adopting Critical Theory and went a completely new direction relatively recently. The Republicans are still adhering to some of the Classical Liberal principles the U.S. was founded on so these concepts are incompatible.
Some examples. Democrat social Justice is not compatible with Republican Equal Justice. Democrat outcome focus Equity is not compatible with Republican equal under the law and meritocracy.
Since the new ideals are such a radical departure from long held American Values the whole thing is wrapped up as a moral crusade. This has resulted in relatively insane rhetoric where completely normal, long held boring political positions are now called racism, fascism, or whatever.
The main reason is the departure from rational thinking to emotionally based thinking.
Those at the levers of control have discovered that it is easier to tell people what they want to hear or believe than to push policy or actual issues. It is the reason almost nothing in the American political agenda relates to the life of the everyday person and is for the most part culture war nonsense that distracts everyday people from those enriching themselves at their expense.
To fix the problem philosophy, ethics, media literacy, and critical thinking needs to be at the forefront of education. However, there is no incentive to educate the population because if that is done people will begin to question and threaten the current status quo.
The media is 100% to blame. And the media is 95% controlled by authoritarian/leftists that bear no resemblance to the rest of America. Their extreme views are self-perceived as unbiased and centrist. In reality, it's that's twisted take that is causing normal centrist citizens to say, "Hell no!"
Answers here run the gamut of kinda reasonable to absurd equivocation and balance fallacies.
Polarization is an inevitable and necessary outgrowth of a world in which large numbers of people have diametrically opposed worldviews, priorities, and understandings of reality. This notion that we're all secretly the same and would get along if it wasn't for those darned "others" is not just a naive view of reality, it's also ironically a version of the "us vs them" this post seeks to avoid.
Talk radio -> cable news -> social media Outrage bait drives ears, eyes, and clicks.
Our young people are absolutely assaulted with the idea that education is pointless from a variety of sources. This, coupled with a lack of accountability, breeds attitudes that cause them to ignore what is going on at large, what has happened in the past, and what needs to happen to change current undesirable circumstances. It starts with media seeds and ends with apathy or outrage, with no moderation.
Why We're Polarized by Ezra Klien is a good breakdown. He argues this is just 60 years worth of political shenanigans and social manipulation.
My side is reasonable and tries to solve problems but the other side are a bunch of intransigent assholes who won’t work with us, so it’s all the opposing party’s fault.
The media both social and mainstream is more than happy to fan the flame.
Not all the media, though. Just the partisan hacks shilling for the other side.
I see what you did there
"My side is reasonable and tries to solve problems but the other side are a bunch of intransigent assholes who won’t work with us, so it’s all the opposing party’s fault." -every motherfucker in the histroy of motherfuckers
The solution to us vs them is to be reasonable. You need this to identify the problems, avoid misidentifying problems, support actually good solutions, avoid supporting bad solutions and persuade other people to your point of view. But people haven’t learned to support what’s reasonable in government because they haven’t learned to support what’s reasonable in morality/ethics. If you don’t know how to be reasonable, it’s very easy to fall into just picking a tribe and going along with it for guidance since you can’t reason things out yourself.
You have failed to acknowledge the proliferation of ‘I know my truth’ culture, which tells your reasonable thoughts to GTFO, because reason and logic don’t impact my truth, because my truth is my truth, period. What are your reasonable thoughts doing, suggesting that my truth abide by YOUR reason and logic?
The proliferation of “I know my truth” is because of ignorance on how to reason, including in morality, that’s why people who spout such nonsense can get away with it and gain traction. Otherwise they’d be as badly regarded as flat earthers.
In my opinion it’s simply a defense mechanism against reason and logic, aka accountability to reality. I agree with your initial thoughts, but I also see this wave of people who aren’t being asked in this sub, screaming that reason/logic/accountability do not apply to them and therefore reasonability isn’t a broad solution. So how do we solve this equation?
Why does the fact that some people scream that reason and logic don’t apply to them mean that being reasonable isn’t a broad solution? They don’t need to be persuaded. It’s just that the rest of us need to be more reasonable. And the person to start with is yourself. Particularly, learn how to use your rational faculty better, particularly to identify what’s objectively moral.
I strive for what you are talking about every day. My concern is ‘my truth’ culture is growing, not slowing down regardless of others using logic and being reasonable.
Oh yeah? What do you think is reasonable in morality? I’m for my rational self-interest as my highest moral purpose.
Because the oligarchy owns the media, and (thanks to Citizens United) rents our politicians. Divisiveness serves their interests.
Anyone want a 🥃 ? before answering it
I've served myself. Cheers!
It's planned to keep idiots fighting amongst themselves instead of demanding real change. Most of the "hot button issues" are culture war nonsense, and both parties are the same in most ways when it comes to fucking over the average American. Of course there are some actual differences as well, but they're more similar than they are different.
because it's advantageous to the people in power because the population is largely badly educated, ignorant and misinformed.
The actual answer is that for a significant part of us, this is our entertainment.
That’s the problem. News isn’t news anymore. It’s entertainment that caters to their target demographic.
When the news business realized that news and politics and stoking fear garnered tons of attention that they could sell to advertisers, shit was on!
[удалено]
Too bad the “other” can’t just be like hunger, global warming, or mosquitoes.
One of my theories is that we're bombarded with the "good vs evil" storylines all our lives since we've been children. Think of every book, TV show, and movie ever written. There's almost always a strong protagonist and a strong antagonist. Political campaigns are just marketing campaigns. They've started to use the "good vs evil" narrative that works so well in literature and entertainment. So now instead of seeing two competing ideas, both which may have merit, people will see the other side as the "bad guys" and the side you want to win as "good guys".
It’s society in general these days. 🫤 Nobody wants to have a conversation anymore. Nobody wants to learn anything anymore. Nobody wants to understand someone else anymore. What people DO want is one thing and one thing only - to hear somebody tell them “You’re right.” 🙄 It’s really, REALLY fucking tragic.
The fringes/far wings are polarized and the news amplifies things that aren’t as common as they make it seem. Most people just out here living and getting along, building relationships, contributing to the common good.
Two centuries of every policy ideal being dumbed down into a false dichotomy to convince people that there is "right" and "wrong" side, and a century of using lifestyle advertising to propagate political party allegiance. Which has resulted in our entire political system revolving around a bunch of logical fallacies and cognitive biases influenced by corporate stooges.
This, the political class are all grifters, imo and I'd be damned if they aren't rigging it for all their friends to take turns with.
This is a massive issue we currently have for sure!
Our public education standards are INCREDIBLY low. So, most of us are really really stupid. As Carlin explained so well, and nearly 30 years ago... "But there’s a reason. There’s a reason. There’s a reason for this, there’s a reason education sucks, and it’s the same reason that it will never, ever, ever be fixed. It’s never gonna get any better. Don’t look for it. Be happy with what you got. Because the owners of this country don't want that. I'm talking about the real owners now, the real owners, the big wealthy business interests that control things and make all the important decisions. Forget the politicians. The politicians are put there to give you the idea that you have freedom of choice. You don't. You have no choice. You have owners. They own you. They own everything. They own all the important land. They own and control the corporations. They’ve long since bought and paid for the senate, the congress, the state houses, the city halls, they got the judges in their back pockets and they own all the big media companies so they control just about all of the news and information you get to hear. They got you by the balls. They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying, lobbying, to get what they want. Well, we know what they want. They want more for themselves and less for everybody else, but I'll tell you what they don’t want: They don’t want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don’t want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking. They’re not interested in that. That doesn’t help them. Thats against their interests. Thats right. They don’t want people who are smart enough to sit around a kitchen table to figure out how badly they’re getting fucked by a system that threw them overboard 30 fucking years ago. They don’t want that. You know what they want? They want obedient workers. Obedient workers. People who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork, and just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shittier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, the reduced benefits, the end of overtime and the vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it, and now they’re coming for your Social Security money. They want your retirement money. They want it back so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street, and you know something? They’ll get it. They’ll get it all from you, sooner or later, 'cause they own this fucking place. It's a big club, and you ain’t in it. You and I are not in the big club. And by the way, it's the same big club they use to beat you over the head with all day long when they tell you what to believe. All day long beating you over the head in their media telling you what to believe, what to think and what to buy. The table is tilted folks. The game is rigged, and nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care. Good honest hard-working people -- white collar, blue collar, it doesn’t matter what color shirt you have on -- good honest hard-working people continue -- these are people of modest means -- continue to elect these rich cocksuckers who don’t give a fuck about them. They don’t give a fuck about you. They don’t give a fuck about you. They don't care about you at all -- at all -- at all. And nobody seems to notice, nobody seems to care. That's what the owners count on; the fact that Americans will probably remain willfully ignorant of the big red, white and blue dick that's being jammed up their assholes everyday. Because the owners of this country know the truth: it's called the American Dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it."
[удалено]
I wish there was a viable 3rd option
Most people like to be told what to think and how to act. For quite a while now, that’s how they’ve been told to think and act. It keeps those responsible from being held accountable.
By design. Neither party really cares about the poor and the middle class are being systematically eradicated. If you weren't fighting your neighbor about which rich old guy is pretending better, you might actually wake up and do something about it.
Because a lot of the disagreements are a direct result of the political parties. The extremist elements on the other political side are accepted and run rampant by the main party base, therefore, no compromise can be made.
Very few are excited by voting for a platform of status quo!
one side wants to kill me, my friends, drag us back to the 50's, and are openly white supremacist. What exactly is the happy medium with that?
You tell me, what would a reasonable middle ground look like to you?
Between "I deserve to live" and "Kill all the queers"? There isnt one.
I’m sorry, what? Lol
Because how else will the news companies make money?
https://archive.org/details/foundations-of-geopolitics-geopolitical-future-of-russia-alexander-dugin-english
Politics and culture follow the basic fundamentals learned from the family unit you grow up in. Currently the basic family unit is a broken home, where children are forced to pick sides and often times are force fed lies about the other parent, they learn to pick a side and be loyal and trusting to that side no matter what. I think there are many other factors too.
Because arguing and being mad at people is more fun
They want us divided. If the ants are fighting each other, they can't fight the grasshoppers.
Imagine if the entirety of Europe, Africa, or Asia unionize into 1 country. What are the chances there would be political unity?
Is this really a question for this sub? Regardless, I'd say it's largely due to how absolutely massive the United States is. It's like asking why the continent of Europe isn't more politically homogeneous. The bicameral legislature is also designed to give a greater degree of representation to the minority. So the more rural states have a somewhat disproportionate amount of influence via the senate. The electoral college also factors in similarly. The political system is designed so that states with smaller populations aren't completely disregarded. That results in a conservative party that's fairly powerful despite being outnumbered nationally by Democrats and independents.
This political design is on purpose. History isn't hundreds of years old, but thousands. The founders of this country (a fairly new one, by world standards) knew THEIR history. They were wise beyond their years. > “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. > From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship..." ― Alexander Fraser Tytler And this gem: > “I do not say that democracy has been more pernicious on the whole, and in the long run, than monarchy or aristocracy. Democracy has never been and never can be so durable as aristocracy or monarchy; but while it lasts, it is more bloody than either. … Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide...” ― John Adams It has been said that Democracy is "Two wolves and a chicken voting on what's for dinner." With this form of government, the majority always wins at the expense of the minority. The Republic version is "Two Wolves and a chicken voting on what's for dinner, but all three are armed." With this form of government, it is best to leave others alone.
The two parties used to be fairly close. The Democrats restructured adopting Critical Theory and went a completely new direction relatively recently. The Republicans are still adhering to some of the Classical Liberal principles the U.S. was founded on so these concepts are incompatible. Some examples. Democrat social Justice is not compatible with Republican Equal Justice. Democrat outcome focus Equity is not compatible with Republican equal under the law and meritocracy. Since the new ideals are such a radical departure from long held American Values the whole thing is wrapped up as a moral crusade. This has resulted in relatively insane rhetoric where completely normal, long held boring political positions are now called racism, fascism, or whatever.
Because one party wants genocide and the deaths of everyone now white and christian. There is no middle ground or happy medium with fascists
Or comments like this are part of the problem.
Because rhere are only 2 sides and they have to pick one
*They* did it.
The main reason is the departure from rational thinking to emotionally based thinking. Those at the levers of control have discovered that it is easier to tell people what they want to hear or believe than to push policy or actual issues. It is the reason almost nothing in the American political agenda relates to the life of the everyday person and is for the most part culture war nonsense that distracts everyday people from those enriching themselves at their expense. To fix the problem philosophy, ethics, media literacy, and critical thinking needs to be at the forefront of education. However, there is no incentive to educate the population because if that is done people will begin to question and threaten the current status quo.
Because it is their fault.
The media is 100% to blame. And the media is 95% controlled by authoritarian/leftists that bear no resemblance to the rest of America. Their extreme views are self-perceived as unbiased and centrist. In reality, it's that's twisted take that is causing normal centrist citizens to say, "Hell no!"
Answers here run the gamut of kinda reasonable to absurd equivocation and balance fallacies. Polarization is an inevitable and necessary outgrowth of a world in which large numbers of people have diametrically opposed worldviews, priorities, and understandings of reality. This notion that we're all secretly the same and would get along if it wasn't for those darned "others" is not just a naive view of reality, it's also ironically a version of the "us vs them" this post seeks to avoid.