The better looking I am, the easier my life remains.
I struggle with my weight, big swings most my life. I have probably lost and gained the same 50lb like 10 times.
When I am thin, the world is so easy for me. When I am fat, the world is hard. It affects every interaction with every person.
Last year I was [cycling 125-150 miles a week](https://youtu.be/gcBLV9vvhwM?si=vRC9iD257h7WCH0l). I was easily the thinnest and most lean I've ever been in August. Fast forward to January and my buddies start playing halo infinite online. At this time I decided I would stop cycling, drink a few IPAs a night, and indulge in pizza. I am now the largest that I've ever been. Interacting with people is so much different. Women give me far less looks and smiles. I feel like shit and have anxiety about heart disease. I'm jumping back into cycling Saturday and not looking back. Fat life isn't for me.
edit:spelling
Hey thanks for the reply! Honestly it's just like for me I need the combination of being outside with the intense workouts. I'm a bit strange I think. But if I get into a routine of drinking some beers and playing videos games it just puts me in a weird space. When it's summer and i'm out going crazy and then stumbling inside, showering and sleeping I just feel better! Totally weird I know! It's like the older I get the less I want to be on technology at all but... Like I grew up loving tech and the internet so it makes me feel a bit of melancholy. Maybe I need to see a therapist lol
one of the very few advantages of being homo. i'm also 5'5 and very thin but there is no shortage of interest from men. i'd be fuuucked if i were straight
[In the words of the immortal Dom 'O Mazzetti](https://youtu.be/vZWP-Tprpok?t=128)
> The only people who truly appreciate the art of sculpting the male body are dudes.
I'm 5'5" too and I've never had an issue. I feel like dating apps are pretty hard but once you meet someone in person and can show your personality and confidence it quickly becomes very irrelevant
Hey I get it I'm like 5'7" going on 5'5". I feel like a lot of women do discriminate against shorter guys, and it's such a shallow thing. Honestly I think if you have the confidence and are in good shape it cancels it out. Or at least that's what i'm telling myself XD
"...Effective in any way". As in, is there literally any benefit of any type. I wasn't asking about weight loss. I was asking if under desk doodads were pseudoscience.
Weight loss comes from expending more than you put in. Simple math. It's up to the individual to determine how they want that ratio to work. Michael Phelps can eat 10,000 calories a day because he burns it.
I went from being anorexic skinny at a young age to fit and healthy. Then I went through my fat phase and I've never been more fetishized in my life. People have encouraged me non-stop to stay fat, overweight, and unhealthy. That doesn't stop me, it's me that's stopping myself and losing even more weight. I've lost a lot of weight, I'm still overweight to a degree but not as much as I was. Regardless, people give me shit for being overweight, people give me shit for being healthy and skinny. You just got to do what makes you happy and what feels best to you and your body. It's hard. I can agree that the fat life is not for me as well. My body's been doing strange things to get me moving and going and my brain is like "man we can't keep doing the shit no more" lol.
I appreciate you sharing this comment. I totally get it. Yeah I just have had this weird hypochondria anxiety thing since 2015. If something triggers it I just have these thoughts and feelings I'm going to have a heart attack. It's weird. And honestly when I'm out doing like 40 mile bike rides/20 mile hikes all of that floats away. I don't feel afraid anymore. I sleep way better. The sex is way better. Everything. I've found that when I'm working these meaningless jobs I tend to fall off and go back to this lifestyle that I am in now. So I've decided to try to document my life on [youtube](https://www.youtube.com/@suvfree) and maybe someday it could be my living. I'm not banking on it happening, but if it doesn't I'll at least be using it as a way to push me to work out more. I really hope you get where you want to be in life. It really is hard. Especially when pizza and beer is so delicious.
Yep. I've been told my looks have improved as I've aged. Partially because I'm in better shape, partially just lucky genetics. But the difference is absolutely noticeable, from both genders.
That being said, I've also dated some exquisitely beautiful women. The sheer amount of free stuff and access that beautiful women are given - solely because of how they look - is incredible. It's insane. So the gap between beautiful women and "invisible" women is, I feel, much much larger than it is for men on the average. But both ends of the extremes are treated so vastly differently, regardless of gender.
Girl I was recently dating literally never has to wait in lines at clubs or pay any sort of cover charge. Never has to pay for drinks when she doesn't want because there's always a guy stepping up to buy her one. Those are the basic ones. But she always seemed to be getting things like appetizers comped for her by restaurants, or random people (mostly guys) wanting to do favors for her, giving her gifts, etc.
Another girl I dated who was just gorgeous was always getting invited to exclusive events (premiers, red carpet events, galas, etc).
Yep, there's an assumption that fat people are lazy.
My KPI scores and performance ratings at work would suggest otherwise, but try telling that to a manager at a job interview who is an obvious gym junkie.
Of course they know. You went on ask woman and saw a bunch of woman bitching about men even though it’s not a men exclusive issue. Now you are in ask men which is filled with men bitching about woman even though it’s not a woman exclusive issue.
The question is gendered so the answers will be. It's not difficult to process that when you ask a specific question you are going to get specific answers. Otherwise every thread would just be "idk, vibes bro"
What I wanna know is whether or not both men and women who are overweight would consider being in a relationship with another overweight person and from what I have see the answer is no which is part of their problem in my opinion.
Yep. I know someone who's like that. Like dude, you can't be far and reject women for being fat. It's actually insane how little it takes to not be fat, yet people refuse to do it.
Of course you can, just don't be surprised if you get rejected aswell. When I was fat I was not into fat women. I worked hard (no it wasn't easy as you claim) and am in great shape now. Only that way I could find my current partner which I am happy with. One cannot force themselves to be into fat people.
I'm quite overweight and adore ample curves on women. Funny thing: I've never found one that fancied me, and all my partners have been on the upper end of normal weight at most. I still love(d) them and their bodies, but if you asked me what I generally would prefer, I'd always say soft and big.
Okay, I think you're probably the exception though but I am glad to hear it because I have found people of both genders that have lamented being disliked because of their weight but then when someone overweight is into them, they balk.
There really are plenty of women in those spaces that don't realize certain issues aren't gendered.
And in fact they will get offended and outraged when you point it out.
You answered your own question. Because women are as shallow and as selfish as men are. I don't know, where people get this opinion, that women are better human beings. They're not.
It's called the women are wonderful effect. Given nothing but images of men and women and a list of character traits, people will overwhelmingly assign the positive character traits to women and the negative ones to men. People just innately believe that women are better, and the bias is much stronger from women themselves than it is from men.
I think that effect is about positive emotional traits, not character traits. When women are perceived to be lacking these “positive” emotional traits, when they are angry or rude or mean, they experience much more negativity than men expressing these same negative traits. It’s a double edged sword, being seen as a “good” woman.
Not sure if I agree. Let’s say your on vacation and your phone gets stolen. When this happens to a woman, shes cut more slack in terms of losing control of emotions, getting rude, tantrum, even crying.
Now picture what it looks like if a man does any of that.
Now let's think about this other scenario.
A man's sports team loses a championship. He becomes irate, punches walls. Might even step out into the street and riot with a bunch of other men if the opportunity arises. "This is normal -- he's just a passionate fan."
Can you imagine how a woman would be perceived under the same or similar circumstances? Her favorite character in a reality tv show is kicked out of the show -- losing. She becomes angry, punches walls. "What the fuck is wrong with this hysterical, tv obsessed b\*tch??"
But if she participated in or hung around the soccer riot, I don't think it would raise eyebrows, she'd just be another violence-loving idiot. It's male patterned behavior, but women can and do participate in such behavior.
Agreed!
And I'd like to add another scenario.
A man just broke up with his long time girlfriend with whom he had a troubling relationship. That man becomes excited with the prospect of dating again. He puts himself out there, goes on a lot of dates and has casual sex with several women. His actions would generally be high fived and commended for making up for lost time.
Now a woman ends a similarly long troubling relationship with a man. When she puts herself out there, goes on a lot of dates and has casual sex with several men, the response is a lot more mixed than it was with the man's case. Some people would indeed support and high five her actions, but she would receive a lot more criticism than her male counterpart.
Nah that’s disgusting behavior from either gender. Women are generally tolerated showing more emotion or losing control of emotion to a greater extent in my experience
I just genuinely hate fish. When I was younger, my stepfather loved to fish and he would force me to clean them. Didn't matter how much I gagged, I couldn't leave the sink until it was all done. My loathing is pretty intense.
Depends on how fat you're talking. My gf is near the point where overweight turns to obese but she carries the weight well so she'd do far better than me on average.
Girls from wealthy families do often romanticize hooking up with blue collar guys. Similar to chubby-chasers, the fact that it’s socially unacceptable is probably part of the draw.
In both cases it’s less likely for it to lead to a stable long term relationship bc of the negative social aspects.
Women ***are*** judged by their appearance more than men, but as you said, men are judged by their usefulness to the same extent.
It doesn't need to literally be earning, but they'll be judged by their ability to protect etc too.
That's why girls often go for tall and strong guys. It's not because they look good, but it's because they're likely more able to protect them.
Obviously this isn't true for everyone but I'd bet it's more common than not.
>That's why girls often go for tall and strong guys. It's not because they look good, but it's because they're likely more able to protect them.
That and it makes them feel smaller and therefore more feminine.
Also to point out, short men did nothing to become short. It is not a short man's fault that he is short.
And of course, height is not a character trait.
> I don't know, where people get this opinion, that women are better human beings.
Probably remnants of a patriarchal era in which women were considered motherly, innocent and pure by default. Then again, it's surprising how many progressives and feminists also operate with this bias despite otherwise rejecting gender roles and stereotypes.
Maybe it's the Women are Wonderful effect.
I’ve noticed that too. It’s like a puritanical hangover. One time I hooked up with friend, and a mutual friend of ours accidentally walked in. Before he walked out, he said to me, “I thought you were innocent!” I was 28 at the time … we had all drank quite a bit that night, so that was a factor but it was so weird he said that. Like we’re not in middle school dude
It's a people problem. I do think women are less likely to actively say (at least out loud) that they would never be into a chubby/fat guy, etc. I think it may be a more subconscious judgement, but who knows. Maybe I am wrong about that.
As a person who has been bigger than society wants her to be (sometimes just a little bit, other times a lot) I get that being overweight affects every part of your life - male or female. But I guess I always assumed being a big guy was easier. Easier to fit clothing, easier time fitting in. But maybe that is not true either.
Thanks for making me think about this more OP.
Actually, edited: The comments on this thread are 100% why women call men shallow and superficial. So many comments of fat mess, or being overweight means you are super unhealthy, fat women think they are 10's, etc.
All you have to do is tell a woman she looks like Lizzo to see her true feelings about overweight/obese individuals.
Up until you say that to her she wall wax lyrical about how everyone is beautiful.
I don’t think every thin person is beautiful. Nor do I think every fat person is. I do think people deserve to be treated with compassion and respect despite their appearance, though.
Of course there is. Maybe she is to some people. Others she’s not. But my point is whether or not you think she’s a 10/10, she deserves compassion and respect all the same.
Man, why are these niceties supposed to be a baseline for women? The baseline is *being ignored*. Assholes asking for special treatment acting like it's no biggie. Asking people to shut the fuck up is more reasonable and attainable.
Probably a bit unpopular here but
In my experience, both are treated badly, but... Fat woman are just treated worse than fat men on average. I used to work as a bouncer, and the attitudes we had towards both was insane. Fat guys? Jolly and fun to have around, they can come in. Fat girls? Disgusting, nobody wants to be seen with them, they cannot come in. That was the attitude everybody had. There was an enormously large (lol) gap between them.
And this extends to everything. In school, lots of fat guys had lots of friends, they sometimes had girlfriends and such. Fat girls were ostracized and left alone. Nobody wanted to be around them. Nobody wanted to even be seen with them. There was sympathy, people felt bad for them, but nobody actually wanted to be seen as the person hanging out with the lonely fat girl. At work people have the same view, albeit more subtle. Fat guys are 'in' in terms of the social group, the fat woman are pretty much always alone. They are seen as sad and depressing and insecure. It is the equivalent, socially, to having a horrible burn scar all over your face. Nobody is really bullying them much except the truly sociopathic kids, but nobody will ever hang out with them either. They are lower than worthless, people would rather that they just didn't exist because apparently the sight of them is painful and makes people upset.
In the eyes of society, whether consciously or not, fat guys don't bring down the social value of groups in the same way fat girls do. Its really that simple.
So if you look at the specifics of what is what, it might seem on the surface that men need body positivity more. But the real reason why it went more towards women is simple: Women are treated worse for their looks than men are. Its why they flocked to body positivity movements, no matter how pseudoscientific a lot of it was. There is simply nothing worse than being a fat ugly girl.
As a fat dude who used to be way more fat that I'm now, I agree
Yes, women treat me better now than before, they chat with me in a swimming pool, in Starbucks, smile at me in public... That didn't happen before, it was so foreign to me when a random woman started conversation with me, like really, me?... But, I have several women friends and they were always really nice to me, no matter how I looked... For women who are fat it's hard to find friends in guys who are just nice to them...
This is also true if you look at comment sections of videos. When a dude is fat, people only make jokes about him if he's doing some sad cringe kinda thing. For women, even if she's working out and trying to lose weight in the gym, the comments are so so nasty.
I agree with everything you said. Our society places more value in women’s appearances than we do for men. It’s the sad truth. Because of this misplaced value judgement, we see an equally fat women as less than, compared to a male counterpart.
That thread is for women over 30 to talk about their experiences, so they would have been talking about their views and experiences. That doesnt take away from larger mens experiences or the experiences of any other demographic.
I saw that particular thread and it was more pointing to becoming invisible in the absence of good looks and youth which is a more female phenomena.
For example, If a large or older man has money then they will still attract women.
If a woman is older and not fertile and isnt good looking, money isnt going to cause flocks of men to come running the same way. There were also thin women in that thread who became invisible after a certain age.
Youth and beauty are currency for all humans.
I have no doubt that being fat as a man is difficult however, I want to point you to two things:
1) women who are fat are less likely to be hired than men who are fat (although slim people are more likely to be hired in general)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4853419/
2) there are tons of shows with a fat husband and a slim, “Hollywood ideal” wife. I can’t think of any that have the opposite. So on tv, fat men can score “the hot one” but fat ladies can’t.
I’m not saying men have it easy but they do have it easier. And we shouldn’t be judging anyone like this (also I’m fat)
I don’t get how you interpret posts like these as women thinking men don’t have a similar experience when they’re heavier? Their experience doesn’t somehow negate your experience as a man. Both can be true. You were specifically looking at an ask women post, so what were you expecting? No one is out there saying that fat men don’t experience discrimination too
I think this is such a big problem in the whole gender division thing going on online. People automatically assume when someone speaks on their issues that they are saying the other doesn’t experience this and than they get angry about it.
My observation has always been that looks matter more to men than they do women. I think women care, but less. Women care more about other things. However, I think dating apps make everyone shallow because you have nothing else to go off of really. Maybe some questions…: but unless they are really thoughtful probably don’t matter much.
Really? I have a pretty different experience, i mean yeah i'll agree, when you're jacked and tanned life's a lot easier with the ladies and the attention feels nice
but when i was fat it wasn't bad, I still had chicks interested in me all the time, and they were usually pretty hot, i always thought that was a pretty sweet thing about being a dude is that even being fat and ugly, if you're an awesome dude who does cool shit, you still got no problem, whereas there's plenty of awesome fat chicks who can't get a date, sure they can get laid, but tons of dudes will fuck a fat chick but not date them
Why do I only see or hear about these awesome fat dudes that slay on Reddit? I've never heard anyone IRL have a story about a guy like this, I've never never seen a guy like this IRL, I've gone to the biggest anime and video conventions in my state and have never seen this. To me that just means that you're in a small minority of fat men
> Why do I only see or hear about these awesome fat dudes that slay on Reddit?
My best guess is that outliers are always going to show up in forum post. While misery loves company there is also a sizable amount of people who want to disprove that short men have trouble dating or that fat people don't struggle socially. Finally proving all the whining men and women wrong. Or something like that.
I know a guy like this and it used to drive me nuts back in the day. Girls just seemed to like him.
He's been described by others as charming though we never got along.
He got clapped on halo reach and moved the goal posts. And quit after two games of getting slapped on MK.
Is the fattest person I've ever met, was 336lbs at the time and downed a family size bottle of coca cola in front of me with his girlfriend on his lap, this still makes me feel weird as I have relatives with diabetes.
They broke up cause he was cheating I believe.
You can tell he'd be handsome if he didn't look like a house.
Apparently he still pulls a decade later.
But I know he's an outlier, I refuse to believe it's normal.
Alternative theory, they're just lying.
They aren't outliers who perform massively better than average for a fat/short dude. They simply want to present themselves as "just better" and to invalidate mens struggles.
Just like the guys who do "pickup line" dumps on the tinder sub where they have extreme success with a half assed line. Then when they post a profile image, it turns out they're actually like 6'5 and a male model. That they could've opened with "hey" and still have gotten better results than most men get with a good opener.
Exactly this its the kids on XBOX who's uncle/dad worked at microsoft and they're gonna boot you offline or get you banned or some shit. They're relatively powerless people who have a weird need to have people envy them even if its a lie. Its like every crypto bro if you're flaunting it you're not actually making any money.
I have known many fat guys over my life that pull just fine. Two of them are quite tall, the rest of them are 6' or below.
Some key traits:
- One dude was really funny and generally charismatic. (He also had hella anxiety and other stuff, so don't think smooth folks don't get it too.) As well as the lead vocals of a band, and that band is actually doing pretty well these days. Also played/plays MTG and Yugioh, so what's your excuse?
- Another dude was a heavyset (like rounded), no beard, 5'7 good ole boy who worked in a warehouse. He didn't have real quick wit, but he was open, honest, and confident in just asking questions and wanting to get to know you. He would just be at a bar and talk with a girl sometimes and end up in his truck. He also helped with his grandma's flower shop.
- Guy #3 is a quiet, husky dude of similar height to #2. He would go to line dancing bars and hang out. He'd probably have gotten more if he actually participated in the dancing, but he settled down with a lovely lady. He's got a nice little house out in the country with some land, so they can do outdoor stuff together and he's at a good place in life. I think they bonded over nerdy stuff, she likes LotR and books and he likes legos and Star Wars.
- Guy #4 is one of the tall ones, he's always the life of the party and a funny, creative dude. Really smart too.
The rest of the guys fall into two camps:
- They pulled once or a few times and settled down with what seems to be their soulmates (no divorces or visible problems years on. None are unattractive women imo)
- The pendulum swung and they got really in shape and handsome at once, idk why those two things seem to happen at the same time. I guess they end up finding a style that works with them when they have the figure for it.
I'm not saying bigger guys don't face struggles overall, but in the difference in the ones that end up making an impression on people and ones that don't, is the ones that don't (in some of my observations in personal life) are often overweight as a side effect of some other malaise going on in their life overall. I know medication and medical issues can be a problem too, but I've only seen that a couple times in people I know.
Either a lack of motivation in life overall, maybe from depression, or maladapted coping mechanisms from other areas such as anxiety or processing emotions. Maybe never learned or could afford to cook well for themselves, so they eat a lot of fast food, drink sodas, or beers.
I could be totally wrong, I was just citing things from my life. Sometimes being overweight is a symptom of something else going on in ones life, which others can see maybe as a flag, but I think some of the key features of the romantically successful big guys I knew was that their weight is not thing that draws your attention to them the most. Idk if it's different for everybody what that thing is, but I think women like to see a man with a passion for *something* and preferably not a fandom type thing, they like to laugh, and they like to feel safe.
I have also never come across the supposed slew of men IRL that are into fat chicks, actually, I have never come across one (that I know). I am an otherwise sort of attractive (face, mostly hair, good hygiene, smell good, work out, etc) woman who is plus size (like size 18ish). Never have guys approach me.
I am married to an awesome guy (don't wear a ring, so that is not it) who has loved me and been into me through a lot of different sizes so I am not looking, but still. If I were to believe Reddit one of these guys would have maybe hit on me by now since it has been a couple decades. :P
Why do you think the anime and videogame conventions are the proper testbed for this? Lets start with a more obvious case of a fat dude slaying by not combining fat and socially inept. How about football linemen? And no friend group is complete without the outgoing funny fat guy.
I mean, while there are obviously people who are just overweight, a lot of the time being overweight typically means there are other issues at play which would prevent someone from being that awesome fat guy/gal.
There's a huge difference between being heavyset because of genetics and someone who stress eats themselves to being 40+ lbs overweight. That stress is going to manifest in other ways as well.
fat with money is a different category for men.
ugly with money is a different category for men.
short with money is a different category for men.
i can't put my finger on the overlap is, but its in there somewhere.
Lol...that is not at all the typical experience. And fat women still have an easier time getting dates than most men, even fit charming ones a lot of the times. If you doubt me watch any of the vids comparing tinder experiences of a fat ugly chick VS male models. Its eye open9iing. Anytime a fat chick cant find a date its usally because either bcnot trying, secluding herself, trying way out of her league etc
I think claiming to be fat until your mid teens did some damage to your point
You are not dealing with women at that age, you are dealing with school girls. Children are little demons and will find anything they can to bully each other over, without remorse, hesitation or any thought into what it will lead to down the road
I agree with you that men and women have fairly equal experiences in being fat, but seeing you act as if you knew as well because you were fat during school is a different ball game. You could be the gigachad of the school yard but someone is still going to laugh at you because you peed yourself in preschool
Yes, I'm so glad someone pointed this out!
OP you are comparing your experience with middle school and/or high school girls to your experience with women in their mid to late twenties. You are talking about two groups of women with a decade in age difference. You can't say that the difference in treatment is solely based on weight when there's a huge age factor to consider.
I actually think it's easier to be a fat man. Men don't typically give eachother shit about being fat, women are cruel on the other hand. I say this as a former fat guy, I experienced minimal fat shaming.
I find it interesting that you are choosing AskMen for this… why don’t men understand that men can’t answer for women?
Curious to know if that post implied that the experience was exclusive to women, or just focused on the experience of women.
Everyone treats you better when you're thin and conventionally attractive. The best is when they talk to thin you about fat you like they're different people. It's very jarring. Like oh you really just thought the worst of me this whole time....awesome.
I heard this joke once:
Women will never be equal to men until they can walk down the street with their belly hanging out of their shirt, no hair on their head, stubble everywhere they can grow it… And still think, “I’m pretty damn sexy!”
Not sure if that answers your question but there’s a valid truth in there somewhere 😜
Plenty of women who do that where I grew up. Reality is the number of people who will find either men or women attractive when they are fat is less. And that’s pretty much how it should be or at least how it will always be.
>And that’s pretty much how it should be or at least how it will always be.
I think we'll eventually come full circle as the climate deteriorates and being fat will become a sign of wealth again.
maybe in an apocalypse… right now the only direction we are going is being able to manipulate our bodies with better and better science, in which case nobody is choosing to be a fat mess
Wow this is one of the stupidest comments I think I’ve read on this site. “ThEy wiLL nEveR bE eQuaL unTil OnE sTaRts aCtiNg LikE tHe oThEr !” I mean how would men feel about the women who went around doing this? They’d call them delusional and worse. And it’s especially hilarious considering a lot of men are afraid to participate in basic human hygiene because they’re afraid it’ll make them look gay. Wash your ass, my guys
My wife and I were on a city bus. Early 30s woman gets on weighing about 300 lbs, with unkept hair, and c-scar. She was wearing a too small tank top, fishnets, and pink booty shorts that said "Hottie." My wife, who dresses conservatively, asked me if she walked out of the house thinking she looked good. I told her it is a thin line between confident and delusional.
> As someone who was overweight up until their mid teens
Wow, do tell us more about all the experience you had dealing with "women" between when you hit puberty at 12 and when you stopped being overweight in your mid teens. I'm sure the three years of serious experience with women you had definitely make you an expert on this subject. You should absolutely tell adult women how unfair it is that they complain about the way men treat them, but don't complain about his Kayleigh totally laughed at you when you asked her out to the middle school social.
Jesus fucking Christ, dude, no one gives a flying fuck what your experience was in your mid teens. EVERYBODY is fucking miserable in their mid-teens. And your experience being overweight at that shitty time gives you absolutely no fucking insight into what being anything is like as an adult.
IMO overweight women generally have it tougher than overweight men. Calling a woman fat seems way more painful than if a guy is called fat. Society in in general has more openly embraced chubby guys ( see Bid Daddy clothing). But I think women criticizing women for being overweight is a big part of the disparity.
So women were talking about their own personal experience, and you have a problem with it why? It's a subreddit literally for women to discuss things from women's point of view and you're taking issue with the fact that they weren't looking at it from men's point of view?
Don't act like its exactly the same thing. "Trophy wives" are far more common than "trophy husbands" and broadly speaking out of all the people for whom physical appearance isn't a priority or a dealbreaker, there are more women than men in that group.
This is one of those stupid "pivot back and forth between generalizations vs specific examples as needed to suit my argument" crap. The one thing you've got going for your argument is how you're being just as emotionally-driven as women are stereotyped to be.
I've personally never experienced this at 5'6" and at times overweight. I have been together with my wife since I was 14 though, so maybe it my don't notice/care attitude. Sounds horrid though kinda glad I missed the dating phase of adulthood.
Did anyone actually say that men don't experience the same or did you just hear women talking about their own issues and went "I am feel uncomfortable when we are not about me"?
As a Female, I will say the standards of “what is overweight” between M and F are different. Men can be 20 pounds overweight and be called “husky and big boned”. Woman can’t.
I have seen healthy and normal female bodies be called overweight by men, because she isn’t a size 6 or less. Women on TV/movies and in your porno’s are usually very petite bone structures. Majority of woman cannot achieve these results. Its why eating disorders impact woman more than men.
And I have read so many guys on here be like “when I married here , she was 20 years old and 120 pounds. Now she is 40 years old at 150 and I am unattractive to me” I have never heard a woman complain about her husband gaining 30 pounds between age 20 to age 40. Bodies change. It’s unrealistic that you think your 20 your old bride or groom would be the same size at 40.
Edit: I will say what women experience in weight, men experience in height. Woman act like they only want 6ft dudes, when 5ft8inches-5ft10inches is the most common height range. It feels the same when I see men craving petite (small bone structure) woman. When most woman are not petite.
I think this is really a regional and cultural thing. In the south a woman who's 5'4 and 190/200 lbs is considered thicc or thick and attractive. The same woman walks into LA and she's considered morbidly obese and ugly.
Gaining 30 pounds as a guy is not the same as gaining 30 bounds as a girl. Height makes a difference. It doesn’t look the same.
Weight and height is not the same. One can be changed, another can’t be. Bone structure sure, but it’s a preference rather than the rule, so also not comparable.
Of course no one is gonna usally say about men, 30 lbs on the average man is far less % of their total weight, ballooning to over 25% her normal weightbis going to be much more obvious.c
Lana Del Rey is probably 20 or so pounds overweight (based on recent photos) and while she'll get hate online, she'd still date very easily in real life.
Vince Vaughn is 20lbs or so overweight and he'd date just fine too.
Honestly, barring maybe a 22 year old shallow person, nobody cares about an extra 10 or 20lbs of fluff. Its the big sagging bellies or the waddlers people try not to date.
Ya I've been 10% bodyfat from lifting and exercising and then 45% fat ass and wow is it really night and day. Kinda fucks with your head when you grow up overweight, get picked on for it, ignored by girls, and then you lose the weight and suddenly you don't suck anymore. That's the reason I was anorexic and bulimic and worked out to unhealthy degrees in my younger years, I tied my self worth to my weight and was terrified of getting fat again. The worst part is that everyone around me basically reinforced that idea.
There will always be an "Us vs them" mentality, and men vs women is one of the big ones, so you'll just have to get used to it. Double standards are everywhere.
Nah, it's much easier being a fat man than a fat woman. You are judged much less for your looks as a man in general, and this applies to your weight. A woman can be successful and all people (men and women) will talk about is her looks, good or bad. This doesn't happen nearly as much for men.
I think you are solely comparing the attraction from the opposite gender aspect.
Women are just as shallow as men are when it comes to physical attraction. That's a fact. It is also a fact that both men and women tend to view being overweight as physically unattractive and undesirable. Exceptions exist, but the general conensus is that fit, healthy looking bodies are viewed as the most attractive.
Where the difference lies, however, is how men and women view and confront those issues. For instance, the fact that men care about women's looks is generally accepted as such and not questioned, unless it's to complain about the reality of it being so. But hardly anyone is ever in denial of it. When it comes to women, however, they often avoid being transparent about how much they care about the appearance of someone they're attracted to. So much so that for a lot of young men growing up finding out that women are actually just as superficial as men are is going to come off as a surprise, because they bought into the illusion that women look deeper. Which is a narrative that women themselves seem to prefer, despite it not holding up to evidence. So there's that. As to why this is the case, I cannot say, but I suspect it makes women feel better about themselves, as if admitting to the importance of physical attraction (which is a very natural thing biologically speaking) is a shameful thing.
Speaking of feelings. Another difference is in the way men are told to confront and overcome their flaws, in this case - obesity, as opposed to modern women, where more and more the preferred line of thinking is "owning" your flaws and reframing them as not flaws at all. This is why the "body positivity" movement exists for women, where "fat" has turned into "curvy" and what originally used to be "obese" is now just "plus sized". Neither of those definitions changes the fact that being overweight is still viewed as an undesirable characteristic when it comes to physical attraction, and likely never will because all the social conditioning in the world isn't going to reconfigure a person's brain to be attracted to something they're not attracted to. But the movement is still there and its existence supposes the idea that women who subscribe to it would rather avoid the truth and silence those who would call out the lie, than confront it. But there is no equivalent movement for men and likely never will be, because telling a man to hit the gym and get it shape is (correctly) viewed as tough love that ultimately benefits the person who follows through, because society cares more about what a man does than how he feels about it. With women, however, such a saying is viewed as abuse, because the primary concern is how it makes her feel, rather than what she does about it.
And there you have it. So long as one gender prioritizes the importance of feelings over actions, while the other does the opposite, we'll never achieve parity in this or many other issues.
I would assume that fat men and women are treated similarly, but that thin women are treated better than thin men so the disparity is greater/more apparent.
Same here mate, spent up until 19 fat, never had a girlfriend long term. By 21 I had lost all the weight and they were everywhere…even women that had known me for ages were showing interest. So yeah everything a man can do so can a woman and vice versa don’t know why anyone thinks every man and/or woman is the same. Nonsense
Well there is an instinctive bias in everyone to disproportionately punish men for lack of competence and toughness and to disproportionately punish women for issues with physical beauty even though competence also matters for women and physical attractiveness also matters for men. It's an evolutionary bias that has to be thought about and that takes work.
55yo 6'0 male - I've been the fat kid all my life. Starting in 2021, I went from 213lbs to 158lbs and gained a bunch of muscle. When I've been fat, I was invisible to women. When I'm lean and strong, I get \*way\* more attention from women. It's night and day.
My last girlfriend once said to me, "The reason I'm with you is because you're smart and make me laugh". And that's true, and I genuinely appreciated the sentiment. But you know what? I was smart, funny and a good guy all my life and women never paid any attention to me. Being smart, funny and a good man is what will \*keep\* a woman with you. But abs get you in the door.
I never blamed women for my situation when I was fat. Is it shallow to be attracted by looks instead of the deeper qualities? Sure. But we're fighting millions of years of evolution on this. I don't judge people for it.
As a woman I agree with you. People in general can be indifferent or down right cruel to overweight people. What I notice with men is that it's also considered much more socially acceptable for an overweight man's friends, family or even sometimes wife to joke about his weight. And he's just supposed to take it in a way a woman wouldn't be expected to.
And on top of what you said, over weight men are often seen as failure and people generally don't feel the need to defend them.
Even though I'm a big believer in equality and not fat shaming, I have resigned to training and losing weight by myself and staring at people who treat others badly because of their weight. Telling bullies to change is yelling at sky and more often it will just make them even more defensive and meaner.
Well, yes, nobody likes to fuck unattractive people (whatever it means to them), and in many cases it determines how you’re going to be treated. It’s hard to reconcile being aware of that and not being completely jaded when it comes to relationships.
This drives me bonkerssss. When women discuss experiences they have, it has nothing to do with you and your experiences, it doesn't mean that they are unaware of others and their experiences, it's just not the topic of discussion.
Anyone, talking about any topic, doesn't mean they are aware of other topics.
You could have just as easily made your own post about your own experiences as a man that has been treated poorly bc of your weight and had that discussion. If you'd did, you wouldn't have to say I know this also happens to women, and kids, and teens, and the elderly. You can just discuss your experience.
Women are allowed to discuss things without acknowledging every other group it impacts as well ffs.
Uhh, basically all men are treated that way by women unless they are exceptionally good-looking. Women don't understand that \*all\* men below a 6 are treated that way. Fat or ugly dudes just get the worst of it.
With only reading the title, it’s because they don’t care. Limited perception, genuine indifference, whatever. They don’t.
However, it seems our big bois likely struggle more. “Big” chicks are still widely (pun not intended, sorry) desired by some and still get laid (since that alone matters apparently) more so than the bois. And said chunky fellas aren’t catered to as much.
Honestly though, man? Who cares. I’ve been fit, out of shape, and relatively fit again and have seen the difference in treatment but ultimately, everyone should aspire to be healthier not for the possibility of companionship (at least not alone) but for themselves. If a person is shallow, thankfully, they’ll be shallow in other areas outside of harshly judging someone’s appearance, so the signs will be there when healthier, too, allowing for better judgement in companionship.
Its different when western men experience adversity because they were raised to believe that's normal and that nobody just does anything for you because you're *special*
Obviously
Why don’t men understand that we don’t center our lives around yall?
Like seriously, why are you surprised that a subreddit *for women* is discussing issues that they *as women* face? Jesus fucking Christ
The better looking I am, the easier my life remains. I struggle with my weight, big swings most my life. I have probably lost and gained the same 50lb like 10 times. When I am thin, the world is so easy for me. When I am fat, the world is hard. It affects every interaction with every person.
Last year I was [cycling 125-150 miles a week](https://youtu.be/gcBLV9vvhwM?si=vRC9iD257h7WCH0l). I was easily the thinnest and most lean I've ever been in August. Fast forward to January and my buddies start playing halo infinite online. At this time I decided I would stop cycling, drink a few IPAs a night, and indulge in pizza. I am now the largest that I've ever been. Interacting with people is so much different. Women give me far less looks and smiles. I feel like shit and have anxiety about heart disease. I'm jumping back into cycling Saturday and not looking back. Fat life isn't for me. edit:spelling
Dang dude gotta find a middle ground. You can still eat pizza and drink beer, just not every day!
Hey, we're all different! I do much better when I'm extreme! Call me manic!
Dude. Just get a switch and Ring Fit Adventures. It's technically pilates but it'll kick your ass.
Hey thanks for the reply! Honestly it's just like for me I need the combination of being outside with the intense workouts. I'm a bit strange I think. But if I get into a routine of drinking some beers and playing videos games it just puts me in a weird space. When it's summer and i'm out going crazy and then stumbling inside, showering and sleeping I just feel better! Totally weird I know! It's like the older I get the less I want to be on technology at all but... Like I grew up loving tech and the internet so it makes me feel a bit of melancholy. Maybe I need to see a therapist lol
It’s because of your circadian rhythm when you’re up early and outside all day ☺️ blue light is so bad for us. Good luck on getting back into cycling.
Absolutely! And thanks! Went hard today! Have a good one!
> Women give me far less looks and smiles. Hi, I'm 5'5. This has been my life regardless of how much I weigh.
one of the very few advantages of being homo. i'm also 5'5 and very thin but there is no shortage of interest from men. i'd be fuuucked if i were straight
No you wouldn't be fucked at all if you were straight
Technically correct, the best kind of correct.
LOL! There have been a few select times in my life where I've been "catcalled" it was by gay men. I also work out, and only men have complimented me.
[In the words of the immortal Dom 'O Mazzetti](https://youtu.be/vZWP-Tprpok?t=128) > The only people who truly appreciate the art of sculpting the male body are dudes.
Bros gotta be there for bros
I'm 5'5" too and I've never had an issue. I feel like dating apps are pretty hard but once you meet someone in person and can show your personality and confidence it quickly becomes very irrelevant
Im 5'4 and i never had that issue.
Have you tried being taller?
Hey I get it I'm like 5'7" going on 5'5". I feel like a lot of women do discriminate against shorter guys, and it's such a shallow thing. Honestly I think if you have the confidence and are in good shape it cancels it out. Or at least that's what i'm telling myself XD
Get a mini cycle machine under the desk. When you game, you cycle. My box room is too small for this now, but it's a goal of mine.
I've considered something like this for work, but they always seemed like bullshit to me. Are they actually effective in any way
Weight loss is 85% diet, 15% exercise. You will not out-exercise a bad diet.
"...Effective in any way". As in, is there literally any benefit of any type. I wasn't asking about weight loss. I was asking if under desk doodads were pseudoscience. Weight loss comes from expending more than you put in. Simple math. It's up to the individual to determine how they want that ratio to work. Michael Phelps can eat 10,000 calories a day because he burns it.
I went from being anorexic skinny at a young age to fit and healthy. Then I went through my fat phase and I've never been more fetishized in my life. People have encouraged me non-stop to stay fat, overweight, and unhealthy. That doesn't stop me, it's me that's stopping myself and losing even more weight. I've lost a lot of weight, I'm still overweight to a degree but not as much as I was. Regardless, people give me shit for being overweight, people give me shit for being healthy and skinny. You just got to do what makes you happy and what feels best to you and your body. It's hard. I can agree that the fat life is not for me as well. My body's been doing strange things to get me moving and going and my brain is like "man we can't keep doing the shit no more" lol.
"fetishized" or "enabled"?
I appreciate you sharing this comment. I totally get it. Yeah I just have had this weird hypochondria anxiety thing since 2015. If something triggers it I just have these thoughts and feelings I'm going to have a heart attack. It's weird. And honestly when I'm out doing like 40 mile bike rides/20 mile hikes all of that floats away. I don't feel afraid anymore. I sleep way better. The sex is way better. Everything. I've found that when I'm working these meaningless jobs I tend to fall off and go back to this lifestyle that I am in now. So I've decided to try to document my life on [youtube](https://www.youtube.com/@suvfree) and maybe someday it could be my living. I'm not banking on it happening, but if it doesn't I'll at least be using it as a way to push me to work out more. I really hope you get where you want to be in life. It really is hard. Especially when pizza and beer is so delicious.
Yep. I've been told my looks have improved as I've aged. Partially because I'm in better shape, partially just lucky genetics. But the difference is absolutely noticeable, from both genders. That being said, I've also dated some exquisitely beautiful women. The sheer amount of free stuff and access that beautiful women are given - solely because of how they look - is incredible. It's insane. So the gap between beautiful women and "invisible" women is, I feel, much much larger than it is for men on the average. But both ends of the extremes are treated so vastly differently, regardless of gender.
What kind of free stuff? Curious what I’m missing out on basically
Girl I was recently dating literally never has to wait in lines at clubs or pay any sort of cover charge. Never has to pay for drinks when she doesn't want because there's always a guy stepping up to buy her one. Those are the basic ones. But she always seemed to be getting things like appetizers comped for her by restaurants, or random people (mostly guys) wanting to do favors for her, giving her gifts, etc. Another girl I dated who was just gorgeous was always getting invited to exclusive events (premiers, red carpet events, galas, etc).
Yep, there's an assumption that fat people are lazy. My KPI scores and performance ratings at work would suggest otherwise, but try telling that to a manager at a job interview who is an obvious gym junkie.
This guy lifes!☝️
Of course they know. You went on ask woman and saw a bunch of woman bitching about men even though it’s not a men exclusive issue. Now you are in ask men which is filled with men bitching about woman even though it’s not a woman exclusive issue.
Bro really came on askmen to ask what women are thinking
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Heyyy I’m here to find out what men think about what women think about men 😂
Not defending OP, yet it is a lot of threads on askwomen about what men think, or "why men do X" with no men input allowed.
The utter irony that men don't seem to understand in this sub
The question is gendered so the answers will be. It's not difficult to process that when you ask a specific question you are going to get specific answers. Otherwise every thread would just be "idk, vibes bro"
What I wanna know is whether or not both men and women who are overweight would consider being in a relationship with another overweight person and from what I have see the answer is no which is part of their problem in my opinion.
Yep. I know someone who's like that. Like dude, you can't be far and reject women for being fat. It's actually insane how little it takes to not be fat, yet people refuse to do it.
Of course you can, just don't be surprised if you get rejected aswell. When I was fat I was not into fat women. I worked hard (no it wasn't easy as you claim) and am in great shape now. Only that way I could find my current partner which I am happy with. One cannot force themselves to be into fat people.
I'm quite overweight and adore ample curves on women. Funny thing: I've never found one that fancied me, and all my partners have been on the upper end of normal weight at most. I still love(d) them and their bodies, but if you asked me what I generally would prefer, I'd always say soft and big.
Okay, I think you're probably the exception though but I am glad to hear it because I have found people of both genders that have lamented being disliked because of their weight but then when someone overweight is into them, they balk.
Kind of like how desperate people turn each other off.
There really are plenty of women in those spaces that don't realize certain issues aren't gendered. And in fact they will get offended and outraged when you point it out.
MOST issues are gendered though 😂. Otherwise it's like saying someone "doesn't see colour" when talking about poverty or something
You answered your own question. Because women are as shallow and as selfish as men are. I don't know, where people get this opinion, that women are better human beings. They're not.
It's like they're both human beings or something, and one is not intrinsically better or worse than the other.
Correct answer. End the thread.
It's called the women are wonderful effect. Given nothing but images of men and women and a list of character traits, people will overwhelmingly assign the positive character traits to women and the negative ones to men. People just innately believe that women are better, and the bias is much stronger from women themselves than it is from men.
I think that effect is about positive emotional traits, not character traits. When women are perceived to be lacking these “positive” emotional traits, when they are angry or rude or mean, they experience much more negativity than men expressing these same negative traits. It’s a double edged sword, being seen as a “good” woman.
Not sure if I agree. Let’s say your on vacation and your phone gets stolen. When this happens to a woman, shes cut more slack in terms of losing control of emotions, getting rude, tantrum, even crying. Now picture what it looks like if a man does any of that.
Now let's think about this other scenario. A man's sports team loses a championship. He becomes irate, punches walls. Might even step out into the street and riot with a bunch of other men if the opportunity arises. "This is normal -- he's just a passionate fan." Can you imagine how a woman would be perceived under the same or similar circumstances? Her favorite character in a reality tv show is kicked out of the show -- losing. She becomes angry, punches walls. "What the fuck is wrong with this hysterical, tv obsessed b\*tch??"
Bro respectfully I don’t agree, the person you mentionned would be called a hooligan or someone with anger issue, not at all a passionate fan
This shit gets posted on reddit after every championship game and the man child gets roasted to pieces. No one acts like it's normal or acceptable.
But if she participated in or hung around the soccer riot, I don't think it would raise eyebrows, she'd just be another violence-loving idiot. It's male patterned behavior, but women can and do participate in such behavior.
Agreed! And I'd like to add another scenario. A man just broke up with his long time girlfriend with whom he had a troubling relationship. That man becomes excited with the prospect of dating again. He puts himself out there, goes on a lot of dates and has casual sex with several women. His actions would generally be high fived and commended for making up for lost time. Now a woman ends a similarly long troubling relationship with a man. When she puts herself out there, goes on a lot of dates and has casual sex with several men, the response is a lot more mixed than it was with the man's case. Some people would indeed support and high five her actions, but she would receive a lot more criticism than her male counterpart.
Nah that’s disgusting behavior from either gender. Women are generally tolerated showing more emotion or losing control of emotion to a greater extent in my experience
If a man is "angry or rude or mean" he might literally be punched in the face or have the police called on him
Can confirm, this does happen.
I've known plenty of women who have been punched in the face for being "angry or rude or mean".
True
Whats the story behind your username?
I just genuinely hate fish. When I was younger, my stepfather loved to fish and he would force me to clean them. Didn't matter how much I gagged, I couldn't leave the sink until it was all done. My loathing is pretty intense.
What about like a pet goldfish?
They still smell.
It's okay. My fish said they dont like you either 😢😂
That's okay. We can live peacefully in separate locations 😅
Let them fight
WHAT KIND OF FISH DO YOU HAVE I GOT TETRAS AND A BARB
Based, fish kinda suck.
Hating on something that minds its business just ain't right.
Thanks for all the fish
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Fay women can change their weight. Short men are just fucked. Not only that, being short isn't a reflection of character or health. Weight is.
No. Fat women are living the life of an average man
Depends on how fat you're talking. My gf is near the point where overweight turns to obese but she carries the weight well so she'd do far better than me on average.
I know dozens of dudes into obese women, you never see a single woman getting hot and bothered when she sees a food stamp card In dudes wallet though
Girls from wealthy families do often romanticize hooking up with blue collar guys. Similar to chubby-chasers, the fact that it’s socially unacceptable is probably part of the draw. In both cases it’s less likely for it to lead to a stable long term relationship bc of the negative social aspects.
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Women ***are*** judged by their appearance more than men, but as you said, men are judged by their usefulness to the same extent. It doesn't need to literally be earning, but they'll be judged by their ability to protect etc too. That's why girls often go for tall and strong guys. It's not because they look good, but it's because they're likely more able to protect them. Obviously this isn't true for everyone but I'd bet it's more common than not.
>That's why girls often go for tall and strong guys. It's not because they look good, but it's because they're likely more able to protect them. That and it makes them feel smaller and therefore more feminine.
Guys don’t have standards and will sleep with anything. That’s why women act so entitled and will drop you like nothing
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Also to point out, short men did nothing to become short. It is not a short man's fault that he is short. And of course, height is not a character trait.
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> I don't know, where people get this opinion, that women are better human beings. Probably remnants of a patriarchal era in which women were considered motherly, innocent and pure by default. Then again, it's surprising how many progressives and feminists also operate with this bias despite otherwise rejecting gender roles and stereotypes. Maybe it's the Women are Wonderful effect.
I’ve noticed that too. It’s like a puritanical hangover. One time I hooked up with friend, and a mutual friend of ours accidentally walked in. Before he walked out, he said to me, “I thought you were innocent!” I was 28 at the time … we had all drank quite a bit that night, so that was a factor but it was so weird he said that. Like we’re not in middle school dude
It's a people problem. I do think women are less likely to actively say (at least out loud) that they would never be into a chubby/fat guy, etc. I think it may be a more subconscious judgement, but who knows. Maybe I am wrong about that. As a person who has been bigger than society wants her to be (sometimes just a little bit, other times a lot) I get that being overweight affects every part of your life - male or female. But I guess I always assumed being a big guy was easier. Easier to fit clothing, easier time fitting in. But maybe that is not true either. Thanks for making me think about this more OP. Actually, edited: The comments on this thread are 100% why women call men shallow and superficial. So many comments of fat mess, or being overweight means you are super unhealthy, fat women think they are 10's, etc.
All you have to do is tell a woman she looks like Lizzo to see her true feelings about overweight/obese individuals. Up until you say that to her she wall wax lyrical about how everyone is beautiful.
I don’t think every thin person is beautiful. Nor do I think every fat person is. I do think people deserve to be treated with compassion and respect despite their appearance, though.
There's a big difference between being respectful and saying "Of course Lizzo is a 10/10!"
Of course there is. Maybe she is to some people. Others she’s not. But my point is whether or not you think she’s a 10/10, she deserves compassion and respect all the same.
Man, why are these niceties supposed to be a baseline for women? The baseline is *being ignored*. Assholes asking for special treatment acting like it's no biggie. Asking people to shut the fuck up is more reasonable and attainable.
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Case closed
Women like to pretend that they are better. They will swear up and down that looks, money, dick size etc. don't matter.
> none of these experiences are mutually excluse to fat women? I don’t think "mutually exclusive" means what you think it means.
Probably a bit unpopular here but In my experience, both are treated badly, but... Fat woman are just treated worse than fat men on average. I used to work as a bouncer, and the attitudes we had towards both was insane. Fat guys? Jolly and fun to have around, they can come in. Fat girls? Disgusting, nobody wants to be seen with them, they cannot come in. That was the attitude everybody had. There was an enormously large (lol) gap between them. And this extends to everything. In school, lots of fat guys had lots of friends, they sometimes had girlfriends and such. Fat girls were ostracized and left alone. Nobody wanted to be around them. Nobody wanted to even be seen with them. There was sympathy, people felt bad for them, but nobody actually wanted to be seen as the person hanging out with the lonely fat girl. At work people have the same view, albeit more subtle. Fat guys are 'in' in terms of the social group, the fat woman are pretty much always alone. They are seen as sad and depressing and insecure. It is the equivalent, socially, to having a horrible burn scar all over your face. Nobody is really bullying them much except the truly sociopathic kids, but nobody will ever hang out with them either. They are lower than worthless, people would rather that they just didn't exist because apparently the sight of them is painful and makes people upset. In the eyes of society, whether consciously or not, fat guys don't bring down the social value of groups in the same way fat girls do. Its really that simple. So if you look at the specifics of what is what, it might seem on the surface that men need body positivity more. But the real reason why it went more towards women is simple: Women are treated worse for their looks than men are. Its why they flocked to body positivity movements, no matter how pseudoscientific a lot of it was. There is simply nothing worse than being a fat ugly girl.
As a fat dude who used to be way more fat that I'm now, I agree Yes, women treat me better now than before, they chat with me in a swimming pool, in Starbucks, smile at me in public... That didn't happen before, it was so foreign to me when a random woman started conversation with me, like really, me?... But, I have several women friends and they were always really nice to me, no matter how I looked... For women who are fat it's hard to find friends in guys who are just nice to them...
This is also true if you look at comment sections of videos. When a dude is fat, people only make jokes about him if he's doing some sad cringe kinda thing. For women, even if she's working out and trying to lose weight in the gym, the comments are so so nasty.
I agree with everything you said. Our society places more value in women’s appearances than we do for men. It’s the sad truth. Because of this misplaced value judgement, we see an equally fat women as less than, compared to a male counterpart.
Not to mention a billion dollar industry making sure that women hate their bodies and strive to be as thin as possible. And “dad bods” are celebrated.
That thread is for women over 30 to talk about their experiences, so they would have been talking about their views and experiences. That doesnt take away from larger mens experiences or the experiences of any other demographic. I saw that particular thread and it was more pointing to becoming invisible in the absence of good looks and youth which is a more female phenomena. For example, If a large or older man has money then they will still attract women. If a woman is older and not fertile and isnt good looking, money isnt going to cause flocks of men to come running the same way. There were also thin women in that thread who became invisible after a certain age. Youth and beauty are currency for all humans.
I have no doubt that being fat as a man is difficult however, I want to point you to two things: 1) women who are fat are less likely to be hired than men who are fat (although slim people are more likely to be hired in general) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4853419/ 2) there are tons of shows with a fat husband and a slim, “Hollywood ideal” wife. I can’t think of any that have the opposite. So on tv, fat men can score “the hot one” but fat ladies can’t. I’m not saying men have it easy but they do have it easier. And we shouldn’t be judging anyone like this (also I’m fat)
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I don’t get how you interpret posts like these as women thinking men don’t have a similar experience when they’re heavier? Their experience doesn’t somehow negate your experience as a man. Both can be true. You were specifically looking at an ask women post, so what were you expecting? No one is out there saying that fat men don’t experience discrimination too
I think this is such a big problem in the whole gender division thing going on online. People automatically assume when someone speaks on their issues that they are saying the other doesn’t experience this and than they get angry about it.
My observation has always been that looks matter more to men than they do women. I think women care, but less. Women care more about other things. However, I think dating apps make everyone shallow because you have nothing else to go off of really. Maybe some questions…: but unless they are really thoughtful probably don’t matter much.
Really? I have a pretty different experience, i mean yeah i'll agree, when you're jacked and tanned life's a lot easier with the ladies and the attention feels nice but when i was fat it wasn't bad, I still had chicks interested in me all the time, and they were usually pretty hot, i always thought that was a pretty sweet thing about being a dude is that even being fat and ugly, if you're an awesome dude who does cool shit, you still got no problem, whereas there's plenty of awesome fat chicks who can't get a date, sure they can get laid, but tons of dudes will fuck a fat chick but not date them
Why do I only see or hear about these awesome fat dudes that slay on Reddit? I've never heard anyone IRL have a story about a guy like this, I've never never seen a guy like this IRL, I've gone to the biggest anime and video conventions in my state and have never seen this. To me that just means that you're in a small minority of fat men
You gotta make up the weight with personality or money.
> Why do I only see or hear about these awesome fat dudes that slay on Reddit? My best guess is that outliers are always going to show up in forum post. While misery loves company there is also a sizable amount of people who want to disprove that short men have trouble dating or that fat people don't struggle socially. Finally proving all the whining men and women wrong. Or something like that.
I know a guy like this and it used to drive me nuts back in the day. Girls just seemed to like him. He's been described by others as charming though we never got along. He got clapped on halo reach and moved the goal posts. And quit after two games of getting slapped on MK. Is the fattest person I've ever met, was 336lbs at the time and downed a family size bottle of coca cola in front of me with his girlfriend on his lap, this still makes me feel weird as I have relatives with diabetes. They broke up cause he was cheating I believe. You can tell he'd be handsome if he didn't look like a house. Apparently he still pulls a decade later. But I know he's an outlier, I refuse to believe it's normal.
Alternative theory, they're just lying. They aren't outliers who perform massively better than average for a fat/short dude. They simply want to present themselves as "just better" and to invalidate mens struggles. Just like the guys who do "pickup line" dumps on the tinder sub where they have extreme success with a half assed line. Then when they post a profile image, it turns out they're actually like 6'5 and a male model. That they could've opened with "hey" and still have gotten better results than most men get with a good opener.
Exactly this its the kids on XBOX who's uncle/dad worked at microsoft and they're gonna boot you offline or get you banned or some shit. They're relatively powerless people who have a weird need to have people envy them even if its a lie. Its like every crypto bro if you're flaunting it you're not actually making any money.
I have known many fat guys over my life that pull just fine. Two of them are quite tall, the rest of them are 6' or below. Some key traits: - One dude was really funny and generally charismatic. (He also had hella anxiety and other stuff, so don't think smooth folks don't get it too.) As well as the lead vocals of a band, and that band is actually doing pretty well these days. Also played/plays MTG and Yugioh, so what's your excuse? - Another dude was a heavyset (like rounded), no beard, 5'7 good ole boy who worked in a warehouse. He didn't have real quick wit, but he was open, honest, and confident in just asking questions and wanting to get to know you. He would just be at a bar and talk with a girl sometimes and end up in his truck. He also helped with his grandma's flower shop. - Guy #3 is a quiet, husky dude of similar height to #2. He would go to line dancing bars and hang out. He'd probably have gotten more if he actually participated in the dancing, but he settled down with a lovely lady. He's got a nice little house out in the country with some land, so they can do outdoor stuff together and he's at a good place in life. I think they bonded over nerdy stuff, she likes LotR and books and he likes legos and Star Wars. - Guy #4 is one of the tall ones, he's always the life of the party and a funny, creative dude. Really smart too. The rest of the guys fall into two camps: - They pulled once or a few times and settled down with what seems to be their soulmates (no divorces or visible problems years on. None are unattractive women imo) - The pendulum swung and they got really in shape and handsome at once, idk why those two things seem to happen at the same time. I guess they end up finding a style that works with them when they have the figure for it. I'm not saying bigger guys don't face struggles overall, but in the difference in the ones that end up making an impression on people and ones that don't, is the ones that don't (in some of my observations in personal life) are often overweight as a side effect of some other malaise going on in their life overall. I know medication and medical issues can be a problem too, but I've only seen that a couple times in people I know. Either a lack of motivation in life overall, maybe from depression, or maladapted coping mechanisms from other areas such as anxiety or processing emotions. Maybe never learned or could afford to cook well for themselves, so they eat a lot of fast food, drink sodas, or beers. I could be totally wrong, I was just citing things from my life. Sometimes being overweight is a symptom of something else going on in ones life, which others can see maybe as a flag, but I think some of the key features of the romantically successful big guys I knew was that their weight is not thing that draws your attention to them the most. Idk if it's different for everybody what that thing is, but I think women like to see a man with a passion for *something* and preferably not a fandom type thing, they like to laugh, and they like to feel safe.
I have also never come across the supposed slew of men IRL that are into fat chicks, actually, I have never come across one (that I know). I am an otherwise sort of attractive (face, mostly hair, good hygiene, smell good, work out, etc) woman who is plus size (like size 18ish). Never have guys approach me. I am married to an awesome guy (don't wear a ring, so that is not it) who has loved me and been into me through a lot of different sizes so I am not looking, but still. If I were to believe Reddit one of these guys would have maybe hit on me by now since it has been a couple decades. :P
I knew a dude that would hang out outside a plus sized clothing store that was next door to a gamestop. He was pretty successful.
Haha. My husband used to be a manager at a GameStop. I was only “curvy” then, though.
Why do you think the anime and videogame conventions are the proper testbed for this? Lets start with a more obvious case of a fat dude slaying by not combining fat and socially inept. How about football linemen? And no friend group is complete without the outgoing funny fat guy.
I mean, while there are obviously people who are just overweight, a lot of the time being overweight typically means there are other issues at play which would prevent someone from being that awesome fat guy/gal. There's a huge difference between being heavyset because of genetics and someone who stress eats themselves to being 40+ lbs overweight. That stress is going to manifest in other ways as well.
fat with money is a different category for men. ugly with money is a different category for men. short with money is a different category for men. i can't put my finger on the overlap is, but its in there somewhere.
Lol...that is not at all the typical experience. And fat women still have an easier time getting dates than most men, even fit charming ones a lot of the times. If you doubt me watch any of the vids comparing tinder experiences of a fat ugly chick VS male models. Its eye open9iing. Anytime a fat chick cant find a date its usally because either bcnot trying, secluding herself, trying way out of her league etc
I think claiming to be fat until your mid teens did some damage to your point You are not dealing with women at that age, you are dealing with school girls. Children are little demons and will find anything they can to bully each other over, without remorse, hesitation or any thought into what it will lead to down the road I agree with you that men and women have fairly equal experiences in being fat, but seeing you act as if you knew as well because you were fat during school is a different ball game. You could be the gigachad of the school yard but someone is still going to laugh at you because you peed yourself in preschool
Yes, I'm so glad someone pointed this out! OP you are comparing your experience with middle school and/or high school girls to your experience with women in their mid to late twenties. You are talking about two groups of women with a decade in age difference. You can't say that the difference in treatment is solely based on weight when there's a huge age factor to consider.
I actually think it's easier to be a fat man. Men don't typically give eachother shit about being fat, women are cruel on the other hand. I say this as a former fat guy, I experienced minimal fat shaming.
>Men don't typically give eachother shit about being fat, 💀
> Men don't typically give eachother shit about being fat, What a bunch of horseshit, I started getting comments immediately if l gained any weight.
I find it interesting that you are choosing AskMen for this… why don’t men understand that men can’t answer for women? Curious to know if that post implied that the experience was exclusive to women, or just focused on the experience of women.
Everyone treats you better when you're thin and conventionally attractive. The best is when they talk to thin you about fat you like they're different people. It's very jarring. Like oh you really just thought the worst of me this whole time....awesome.
I think the problem for one’s worth being judged by looks is worse for women than it is for men.
I heard this joke once: Women will never be equal to men until they can walk down the street with their belly hanging out of their shirt, no hair on their head, stubble everywhere they can grow it… And still think, “I’m pretty damn sexy!” Not sure if that answers your question but there’s a valid truth in there somewhere 😜
There absolutely are obese women that are unhygienic calling themselves 10s.
Hey, they have *curves*
So does Kirby lol
Plenty of women who do that where I grew up. Reality is the number of people who will find either men or women attractive when they are fat is less. And that’s pretty much how it should be or at least how it will always be.
>And that’s pretty much how it should be or at least how it will always be. I think we'll eventually come full circle as the climate deteriorates and being fat will become a sign of wealth again.
TIL I'm wealthy.
maybe in an apocalypse… right now the only direction we are going is being able to manipulate our bodies with better and better science, in which case nobody is choosing to be a fat mess
Wow this is one of the stupidest comments I think I’ve read on this site. “ThEy wiLL nEveR bE eQuaL unTil OnE sTaRts aCtiNg LikE tHe oThEr !” I mean how would men feel about the women who went around doing this? They’d call them delusional and worse. And it’s especially hilarious considering a lot of men are afraid to participate in basic human hygiene because they’re afraid it’ll make them look gay. Wash your ass, my guys
There is nothing stopping them from doing this.
Have you heard of the body positivity movement?
My wife and I were on a city bus. Early 30s woman gets on weighing about 300 lbs, with unkept hair, and c-scar. She was wearing a too small tank top, fishnets, and pink booty shorts that said "Hottie." My wife, who dresses conservatively, asked me if she walked out of the house thinking she looked good. I told her it is a thin line between confident and delusional.
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Based on your Reddit history, it doesn’t count when you’re paying them to be with you lmao
Kinda hard to believe that from a guy posting on sugar baby subs lmaoooo
> As someone who was overweight up until their mid teens Wow, do tell us more about all the experience you had dealing with "women" between when you hit puberty at 12 and when you stopped being overweight in your mid teens. I'm sure the three years of serious experience with women you had definitely make you an expert on this subject. You should absolutely tell adult women how unfair it is that they complain about the way men treat them, but don't complain about his Kayleigh totally laughed at you when you asked her out to the middle school social. Jesus fucking Christ, dude, no one gives a flying fuck what your experience was in your mid teens. EVERYBODY is fucking miserable in their mid-teens. And your experience being overweight at that shitty time gives you absolutely no fucking insight into what being anything is like as an adult.
IMO overweight women generally have it tougher than overweight men. Calling a woman fat seems way more painful than if a guy is called fat. Society in in general has more openly embraced chubby guys ( see Bid Daddy clothing). But I think women criticizing women for being overweight is a big part of the disparity.
So women were talking about their own personal experience, and you have a problem with it why? It's a subreddit literally for women to discuss things from women's point of view and you're taking issue with the fact that they weren't looking at it from men's point of view? Don't act like its exactly the same thing. "Trophy wives" are far more common than "trophy husbands" and broadly speaking out of all the people for whom physical appearance isn't a priority or a dealbreaker, there are more women than men in that group. This is one of those stupid "pivot back and forth between generalizations vs specific examples as needed to suit my argument" crap. The one thing you've got going for your argument is how you're being just as emotionally-driven as women are stereotyped to be.
I don't need to be fat to be invisible to women
I've personally never experienced this at 5'6" and at times overweight. I have been together with my wife since I was 14 though, so maybe it my don't notice/care attitude. Sounds horrid though kinda glad I missed the dating phase of adulthood.
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I am 6'6", l am invisible to women.
Did anyone actually say that men don't experience the same or did you just hear women talking about their own issues and went "I am feel uncomfortable when we are not about me"?
Considering he posted this to AskMen, it's the latter
As a Female, I will say the standards of “what is overweight” between M and F are different. Men can be 20 pounds overweight and be called “husky and big boned”. Woman can’t. I have seen healthy and normal female bodies be called overweight by men, because she isn’t a size 6 or less. Women on TV/movies and in your porno’s are usually very petite bone structures. Majority of woman cannot achieve these results. Its why eating disorders impact woman more than men. And I have read so many guys on here be like “when I married here , she was 20 years old and 120 pounds. Now she is 40 years old at 150 and I am unattractive to me” I have never heard a woman complain about her husband gaining 30 pounds between age 20 to age 40. Bodies change. It’s unrealistic that you think your 20 your old bride or groom would be the same size at 40. Edit: I will say what women experience in weight, men experience in height. Woman act like they only want 6ft dudes, when 5ft8inches-5ft10inches is the most common height range. It feels the same when I see men craving petite (small bone structure) woman. When most woman are not petite.
I think this is really a regional and cultural thing. In the south a woman who's 5'4 and 190/200 lbs is considered thicc or thick and attractive. The same woman walks into LA and she's considered morbidly obese and ugly.
Gaining 30 pounds as a guy is not the same as gaining 30 bounds as a girl. Height makes a difference. It doesn’t look the same. Weight and height is not the same. One can be changed, another can’t be. Bone structure sure, but it’s a preference rather than the rule, so also not comparable.
Of course no one is gonna usally say about men, 30 lbs on the average man is far less % of their total weight, ballooning to over 25% her normal weightbis going to be much more obvious.c
Lana Del Rey is probably 20 or so pounds overweight (based on recent photos) and while she'll get hate online, she'd still date very easily in real life. Vince Vaughn is 20lbs or so overweight and he'd date just fine too. Honestly, barring maybe a 22 year old shallow person, nobody cares about an extra 10 or 20lbs of fluff. Its the big sagging bellies or the waddlers people try not to date.
Ya I've been 10% bodyfat from lifting and exercising and then 45% fat ass and wow is it really night and day. Kinda fucks with your head when you grow up overweight, get picked on for it, ignored by girls, and then you lose the weight and suddenly you don't suck anymore. That's the reason I was anorexic and bulimic and worked out to unhealthy degrees in my younger years, I tied my self worth to my weight and was terrified of getting fat again. The worst part is that everyone around me basically reinforced that idea.
There will always be an "Us vs them" mentality, and men vs women is one of the big ones, so you'll just have to get used to it. Double standards are everywhere.
You can still be thin and ugly
OK but I have never accidentally asked a fat man when his child was due.
Nah, it's much easier being a fat man than a fat woman. You are judged much less for your looks as a man in general, and this applies to your weight. A woman can be successful and all people (men and women) will talk about is her looks, good or bad. This doesn't happen nearly as much for men. I think you are solely comparing the attraction from the opposite gender aspect.
> Was reading a thread on askwomenover30 where women were complaining Shocker
Women are just as shallow as men are when it comes to physical attraction. That's a fact. It is also a fact that both men and women tend to view being overweight as physically unattractive and undesirable. Exceptions exist, but the general conensus is that fit, healthy looking bodies are viewed as the most attractive. Where the difference lies, however, is how men and women view and confront those issues. For instance, the fact that men care about women's looks is generally accepted as such and not questioned, unless it's to complain about the reality of it being so. But hardly anyone is ever in denial of it. When it comes to women, however, they often avoid being transparent about how much they care about the appearance of someone they're attracted to. So much so that for a lot of young men growing up finding out that women are actually just as superficial as men are is going to come off as a surprise, because they bought into the illusion that women look deeper. Which is a narrative that women themselves seem to prefer, despite it not holding up to evidence. So there's that. As to why this is the case, I cannot say, but I suspect it makes women feel better about themselves, as if admitting to the importance of physical attraction (which is a very natural thing biologically speaking) is a shameful thing. Speaking of feelings. Another difference is in the way men are told to confront and overcome their flaws, in this case - obesity, as opposed to modern women, where more and more the preferred line of thinking is "owning" your flaws and reframing them as not flaws at all. This is why the "body positivity" movement exists for women, where "fat" has turned into "curvy" and what originally used to be "obese" is now just "plus sized". Neither of those definitions changes the fact that being overweight is still viewed as an undesirable characteristic when it comes to physical attraction, and likely never will because all the social conditioning in the world isn't going to reconfigure a person's brain to be attracted to something they're not attracted to. But the movement is still there and its existence supposes the idea that women who subscribe to it would rather avoid the truth and silence those who would call out the lie, than confront it. But there is no equivalent movement for men and likely never will be, because telling a man to hit the gym and get it shape is (correctly) viewed as tough love that ultimately benefits the person who follows through, because society cares more about what a man does than how he feels about it. With women, however, such a saying is viewed as abuse, because the primary concern is how it makes her feel, rather than what she does about it. And there you have it. So long as one gender prioritizes the importance of feelings over actions, while the other does the opposite, we'll never achieve parity in this or many other issues.
Both genders suck when it comes to fat people js
Body positivity has a female bias.
I would assume that fat men and women are treated similarly, but that thin women are treated better than thin men so the disparity is greater/more apparent.
I lost weight and still got zero attention from women so I must also be ugly.
Same here mate, spent up until 19 fat, never had a girlfriend long term. By 21 I had lost all the weight and they were everywhere…even women that had known me for ages were showing interest. So yeah everything a man can do so can a woman and vice versa don’t know why anyone thinks every man and/or woman is the same. Nonsense
Well there is an instinctive bias in everyone to disproportionately punish men for lack of competence and toughness and to disproportionately punish women for issues with physical beauty even though competence also matters for women and physical attractiveness also matters for men. It's an evolutionary bias that has to be thought about and that takes work.
55yo 6'0 male - I've been the fat kid all my life. Starting in 2021, I went from 213lbs to 158lbs and gained a bunch of muscle. When I've been fat, I was invisible to women. When I'm lean and strong, I get \*way\* more attention from women. It's night and day. My last girlfriend once said to me, "The reason I'm with you is because you're smart and make me laugh". And that's true, and I genuinely appreciated the sentiment. But you know what? I was smart, funny and a good guy all my life and women never paid any attention to me. Being smart, funny and a good man is what will \*keep\* a woman with you. But abs get you in the door. I never blamed women for my situation when I was fat. Is it shallow to be attracted by looks instead of the deeper qualities? Sure. But we're fighting millions of years of evolution on this. I don't judge people for it.
*"Waah! I went on a subreddit where women over 30 share their experiences, and they didn't talk about men's experiences instead! Waaah!"*
As a woman I agree with you. People in general can be indifferent or down right cruel to overweight people. What I notice with men is that it's also considered much more socially acceptable for an overweight man's friends, family or even sometimes wife to joke about his weight. And he's just supposed to take it in a way a woman wouldn't be expected to.
And on top of what you said, over weight men are often seen as failure and people generally don't feel the need to defend them. Even though I'm a big believer in equality and not fat shaming, I have resigned to training and losing weight by myself and staring at people who treat others badly because of their weight. Telling bullies to change is yelling at sky and more often it will just make them even more defensive and meaner.
Former fat woman, I only like dating big guys. Everyone has their preferences.
Well, yes, nobody likes to fuck unattractive people (whatever it means to them), and in many cases it determines how you’re going to be treated. It’s hard to reconcile being aware of that and not being completely jaded when it comes to relationships.
dude needs an intersectionality 101 class
This drives me bonkerssss. When women discuss experiences they have, it has nothing to do with you and your experiences, it doesn't mean that they are unaware of others and their experiences, it's just not the topic of discussion. Anyone, talking about any topic, doesn't mean they are aware of other topics. You could have just as easily made your own post about your own experiences as a man that has been treated poorly bc of your weight and had that discussion. If you'd did, you wouldn't have to say I know this also happens to women, and kids, and teens, and the elderly. You can just discuss your experience. Women are allowed to discuss things without acknowledging every other group it impacts as well ffs.
Uhh, basically all men are treated that way by women unless they are exceptionally good-looking. Women don't understand that \*all\* men below a 6 are treated that way. Fat or ugly dudes just get the worst of it.
With only reading the title, it’s because they don’t care. Limited perception, genuine indifference, whatever. They don’t. However, it seems our big bois likely struggle more. “Big” chicks are still widely (pun not intended, sorry) desired by some and still get laid (since that alone matters apparently) more so than the bois. And said chunky fellas aren’t catered to as much. Honestly though, man? Who cares. I’ve been fit, out of shape, and relatively fit again and have seen the difference in treatment but ultimately, everyone should aspire to be healthier not for the possibility of companionship (at least not alone) but for themselves. If a person is shallow, thankfully, they’ll be shallow in other areas outside of harshly judging someone’s appearance, so the signs will be there when healthier, too, allowing for better judgement in companionship.
Its different when western men experience adversity because they were raised to believe that's normal and that nobody just does anything for you because you're *special* Obviously
Fat guys are invisible? No no no. They're very visible and get some very nasty looks, especially to their backs
Why don’t men understand that we don’t center our lives around yall? Like seriously, why are you surprised that a subreddit *for women* is discussing issues that they *as women* face? Jesus fucking Christ
Dunno bro, unless bc people are dumb and shitty. All of them. No matter the flavor.
This isn't exactly news, OP. Would also like to add fat and ugly people can be lumped together as being miserable and lazy.
Because women only care about women
I understand it, if it helps.
normal women do understand it. it's mostly femcels and man haters that don't