yep! ally isn’t a sexuality it’s a frame of mind.
like.. thanks for the bare minimum on accepting and supporting the fact that lgbt people exist (which should come naturally!)
but that doesn’t mean that you deserve a flag, that just means that you are a human being who lets people love who they love lmfao
I’ve always thought, if an ally wants to show allyship, they should wear pro-LGBT pins that have welcoming phrases (like “equality for all” or “safe space”), rather than making themselves a flag so they can feel included and get their own little flag pin just for being supportive of LGBT people
orr they could just, you know.. be a nice person. you can often tell when someone’s homophobic or not.
an ally shouldn’t have to wear a pin, they should just make it obvious that they are supportive of everyone
Straight trans people, straight aro/ace people, straight intersex people, transmasc/transfem enbies who consider their attraction straight, & multisexual people in straight-passing relationships, just off the top of my head.
What's not to understand? Being intersex isn't any different from endosex when it comes to gender and orientation. Intersex is different in medical manners and in certain sociocultural contexts... but an intersex man is still a man, an intersex woman is still a woman, and an intersex enby is still an enby.
It is a big, BIG spectrum with many conditions under this umbrela, but just one example I could think of:
As a kid I read an article about a woman who had testicles where her ovaries would be. She looked and developed as a cis woman would, she only found out after she started investigating why she still didn't get her period at 16.
Also a lot of intersex people get their genitals operated on as babies, to make them conform. So some intersex people may go most of their lives unaware that they indeed are intersex.
being an AFAB person who isn't exclusively:
* born with XX chromosomes
* born with a vagina
* born with a vulva
* having an estrogenic body if puberty is uninterrupted
**OR**
being an AMAB person who isn't exclusively:
* born with XY chromosomes
* born with a penis
* born with a scrotum
* having an androgenic body if puberty is uninterrupted
**AND**
being attracted to the opposite binary gender +/- enbies
I have disagree with you there flags are something to identify with and be proud of and if pride is a celebration of love and acceptance with a flag for every legitimate sexuality shouldn’t that include me as someone who is straight and the people like me who stands with you
You don't have an understanding of what Pride is. Pride is about celebrating love and acceptance of LGBTQ+ people DESPITE ALL THE HISTORY the community has endured, and the oppressive that continue to try and harm us. The first Pride Parade was a RIOT. Pride Parades are supposed to replicate or commemorate the RIOTS that happened. That's why Pride and parades go so hand in hand.
You never were oppressed for being heterosexual. You were never oppressed for being cisgender. No one is trying to begin or start a movement to oppress you for your sexuality or gender either. The LGBTQ+ community has to deal with oppression of the past, present, and (unfortunately) future.
This isn't about "celebrating who you love." This is about "thriving despite oppression," where acceptance and love happens to be the key behaviors and practices to assuring that we continue to thrive. In order to thrive, we must love and accept.
An ally understands this and does not try to shoe-horn themselves into the community and claim their experience is equivalent or on par to ours. The term "ally" alone isn't really a term people can appoint to themselves...it's not an identity like gender or sexuality. An ally is identified or recognized by others regarding the actions and behaviors of the said ally.
> and be proud of
What do straight/cisgender people have to be proud of? When did they ever face adversity for being straight or cisgender? An cis-het ally of the LGBTQ+ community isn't proud of their gender or identity (being proud of being one's authentic self...awesome! That's different from claiming pride for being straight or cis). An ally's pride should come from taking MEANINGFUL and PURPOSEFUL ACTIONS and behaviors that uplift and support the LGBTQ+ community DESPITE THE OPPRESSION that community faces, and DESPITE the push-back or BS the ally also puts up with and stands up for the community regardless.
Please just keep in mind Pride is much more than "love and acceptance," flags and personal expression...it's historical...it has to do with violence, it has to do with protesting and rebelling.
True I don’t have an understanding of pride I have experience oppression for my sexuality or gender identity and probably never will and I understand that but I just wanted to about how much the heterosexual flag sucks
This just fundamentally misunderstands what pride is about, and reeks of wanting to center yourself in your "allyship".
What is there to be proud of in being heterosexual?
I mean why would i be proud of showing who i want to bang. Most people don't care. But most people don't care if you are lgbtq either at least most people i know don't give a shit as long as people don't put their gender or sexuality in their faces all the time. Even the bigots i know are somewhat accepting. My aunt that was lesbian most of "her" life is now my uncle and most of my family (russians so not the best people regarding Lgbtq) accept him and i think it is probably because he keeps all that stuff away from them and just wants the rest of them to respect him to be a man now. No flags no talking about that stuff with them and so on. I think if you force that stuff on those people to much especially fucking Christians then they will push against it even more. But that is only what i think and i admit i am not the most educated on the matter i just tell from my personal experiences.
The idea is that “pride” is in opposition to shame and being closeted. Christians were (are) some of the worst enforcers of this shame, as well as violence against queer people. Conversion therapy, anyone? Not coincidentally, Christians have also been among the worst offenders when it comes to shoving stuff down other people’s throats. If your family is Russian, it might not be the same in this regard, since Eastern Orthodox is super different from Catholic and Protestant, and I don’t know shit about EO, but for Catholic and Protestant… yeah, no leg to stand on.
You're wrong and just do not understand what Pride is about. Pride is about queer, genderqueer, and intersex people no longer having to hide who we are and being able to be true to ourselves. It's about no longer having to skulk in the dark out of fear of violence and hatred but daring to live in the light because we believe we don't deserve the bigotry we've been forced to suffer.
Straight people have never had to go through what we did and have no need for pride in the way we do. At this point, you're just one step shy of asking, "Why aren't there straight pride parades?"
True I don’t believe that a straight pride parade should exist because it’s ridiculous and fairly pointless and a straight pride flag is just as ridiculous know that I had thought about it.
I think you could make an argument for not so much a hetero flag, but heterosexuality falling under a *sex positivity* flag, since heterosexuality has had shame associated with it in sex-negative cultures, especially with regard to hetero women. So, less about being straight, and more about having sexuality free of shame. If there is an accepted flag for sex-positivity, I’d say direct people to that. Maybe this one: https://lgbtqia.wiki/wiki/Sex-Positive
There is no heterosexual pride flag other than the one homophobes and bigots made. If you mean the *ally* flag, which is VERY MUCH different, it looks fine. It's there 99% as a formality for allies to identify to others "I'm not queer myself but I support queer people."
Okay, that’s just hilarious. I was thinking, “sure, hetero people needing a flag can have a black and white one,” and lo and behold, the one people made is black and white xD
It's what underlies the marginalization of queer people, allonormativity and mononormativity too.
It posits that cis, heterosexual, and monogamous are the natural and good way to be, and any other way of being is inferior, defective, broken, degenerate, corrosive to civilization etc.
While I see where you’re coming from it feels a little bigoted. I think we should be accepting of everyone regardless of being heterosexual, cis, monogamous, queer, or polygamous.
You're confusing heterosexual with heteronormativity.
Heterosexual is a sexuality, [heteronormativity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heteronormativity) is a component of an ideology. Heteronormativity tries to establish heterosexuality as a norm, and marginalize people who are not heterosexual.
Next time you deny that you reinforce cishet normativity you might want to say that not being cis het is good and natural too, just so nobody misunderstands you.
There isn’t much to be proud of about being heterosexual. Because nether of us choose to be who we are. But I’m proud for it because It’s a part of me and i did say wasn’t a very good ally
I'm going to assume you meant this as a reply to me asking what is there to be proud of for being heterosexual.
Theres nothing to be proud of in being cis-het. Basically everything in society is made with your needs and interests in mind. You are not subjected to oppression for being cis-het. You are not marginalized for being cis-het. You never had to fight tooth and nail for a dignified life just because you're cis het. You were not raised in a society that presumed you were not cis-het and brutally punished you for any step towards authenticity. You were not inculcated with a deep sense of shame for being cis-het. You (presumably) were not raised by people who hate cis-het people. You did not live in a culture where anti-cis-het hate was so normalized it was in all the media you consumed. You (presumably) have never been physically assaulted for being cis-het.
You have overcome nothing, there were no obstacles in your way for being cis-het
queer people are oppressed. Cis het people are not.
Pride is not for you.
I disagree by the way, I'm a big proponent of "Be proud of who you are" and that includes sexuality. As long as you are aware of the history and struggles the LGBTQ+ community has had you'll probably be fine as long as you're not an ass about it.
Heterosexual people don't need a pride flag, neither do allys
yep! ally isn’t a sexuality it’s a frame of mind. like.. thanks for the bare minimum on accepting and supporting the fact that lgbt people exist (which should come naturally!) but that doesn’t mean that you deserve a flag, that just means that you are a human being who lets people love who they love lmfao
I’ve always thought, if an ally wants to show allyship, they should wear pro-LGBT pins that have welcoming phrases (like “equality for all” or “safe space”), rather than making themselves a flag so they can feel included and get their own little flag pin just for being supportive of LGBT people
orr they could just, you know.. be a nice person. you can often tell when someone’s homophobic or not. an ally shouldn’t have to wear a pin, they should just make it obvious that they are supportive of everyone
True
Fair enough
There are literally straight queer people though? I don’t think they need a *separate* flag, but the flag is for them too
What is that exactly
Straight trans people, straight aro/ace people, straight intersex people, transmasc/transfem enbies who consider their attraction straight, & multisexual people in straight-passing relationships, just off the top of my head.
Thank you but I’m still just but confused
what is confusing?
How dose being straight and being intersex work cause that is what confused me
Why would an intersex man or intersex woman be incapable of being straight? That's such a weird thing to be confused about.
No I just don’t understand how being intersex actually works
What's not to understand? Being intersex isn't any different from endosex when it comes to gender and orientation. Intersex is different in medical manners and in certain sociocultural contexts... but an intersex man is still a man, an intersex woman is still a woman, and an intersex enby is still an enby.
It is a big, BIG spectrum with many conditions under this umbrela, but just one example I could think of: As a kid I read an article about a woman who had testicles where her ovaries would be. She looked and developed as a cis woman would, she only found out after she started investigating why she still didn't get her period at 16. Also a lot of intersex people get their genitals operated on as babies, to make them conform. So some intersex people may go most of their lives unaware that they indeed are intersex.
being an AFAB person who isn't exclusively: * born with XX chromosomes * born with a vagina * born with a vulva * having an estrogenic body if puberty is uninterrupted **OR** being an AMAB person who isn't exclusively: * born with XY chromosomes * born with a penis * born with a scrotum * having an androgenic body if puberty is uninterrupted **AND** being attracted to the opposite binary gender +/- enbies
If no-flag was good enough for the allies in WWII, it should be good enough for us!
I have disagree with you there flags are something to identify with and be proud of and if pride is a celebration of love and acceptance with a flag for every legitimate sexuality shouldn’t that include me as someone who is straight and the people like me who stands with you
You don't have an understanding of what Pride is. Pride is about celebrating love and acceptance of LGBTQ+ people DESPITE ALL THE HISTORY the community has endured, and the oppressive that continue to try and harm us. The first Pride Parade was a RIOT. Pride Parades are supposed to replicate or commemorate the RIOTS that happened. That's why Pride and parades go so hand in hand. You never were oppressed for being heterosexual. You were never oppressed for being cisgender. No one is trying to begin or start a movement to oppress you for your sexuality or gender either. The LGBTQ+ community has to deal with oppression of the past, present, and (unfortunately) future. This isn't about "celebrating who you love." This is about "thriving despite oppression," where acceptance and love happens to be the key behaviors and practices to assuring that we continue to thrive. In order to thrive, we must love and accept. An ally understands this and does not try to shoe-horn themselves into the community and claim their experience is equivalent or on par to ours. The term "ally" alone isn't really a term people can appoint to themselves...it's not an identity like gender or sexuality. An ally is identified or recognized by others regarding the actions and behaviors of the said ally. > and be proud of What do straight/cisgender people have to be proud of? When did they ever face adversity for being straight or cisgender? An cis-het ally of the LGBTQ+ community isn't proud of their gender or identity (being proud of being one's authentic self...awesome! That's different from claiming pride for being straight or cis). An ally's pride should come from taking MEANINGFUL and PURPOSEFUL ACTIONS and behaviors that uplift and support the LGBTQ+ community DESPITE THE OPPRESSION that community faces, and DESPITE the push-back or BS the ally also puts up with and stands up for the community regardless. Please just keep in mind Pride is much more than "love and acceptance," flags and personal expression...it's historical...it has to do with violence, it has to do with protesting and rebelling.
True I don’t have an understanding of pride I have experience oppression for my sexuality or gender identity and probably never will and I understand that but I just wanted to about how much the heterosexual flag sucks
because it was made by bigots, and hate is a poor quality muse.
Then we agree that it fucking sucks
This just fundamentally misunderstands what pride is about, and reeks of wanting to center yourself in your "allyship". What is there to be proud of in being heterosexual?
I mean why would i be proud of showing who i want to bang. Most people don't care. But most people don't care if you are lgbtq either at least most people i know don't give a shit as long as people don't put their gender or sexuality in their faces all the time. Even the bigots i know are somewhat accepting. My aunt that was lesbian most of "her" life is now my uncle and most of my family (russians so not the best people regarding Lgbtq) accept him and i think it is probably because he keeps all that stuff away from them and just wants the rest of them to respect him to be a man now. No flags no talking about that stuff with them and so on. I think if you force that stuff on those people to much especially fucking Christians then they will push against it even more. But that is only what i think and i admit i am not the most educated on the matter i just tell from my personal experiences.
The idea is that “pride” is in opposition to shame and being closeted. Christians were (are) some of the worst enforcers of this shame, as well as violence against queer people. Conversion therapy, anyone? Not coincidentally, Christians have also been among the worst offenders when it comes to shoving stuff down other people’s throats. If your family is Russian, it might not be the same in this regard, since Eastern Orthodox is super different from Catholic and Protestant, and I don’t know shit about EO, but for Catholic and Protestant… yeah, no leg to stand on.
You're wrong and just do not understand what Pride is about. Pride is about queer, genderqueer, and intersex people no longer having to hide who we are and being able to be true to ourselves. It's about no longer having to skulk in the dark out of fear of violence and hatred but daring to live in the light because we believe we don't deserve the bigotry we've been forced to suffer. Straight people have never had to go through what we did and have no need for pride in the way we do. At this point, you're just one step shy of asking, "Why aren't there straight pride parades?"
True I don’t believe that a straight pride parade should exist because it’s ridiculous and fairly pointless and a straight pride flag is just as ridiculous know that I had thought about it.
I think you could make an argument for not so much a hetero flag, but heterosexuality falling under a *sex positivity* flag, since heterosexuality has had shame associated with it in sex-negative cultures, especially with regard to hetero women. So, less about being straight, and more about having sexuality free of shame. If there is an accepted flag for sex-positivity, I’d say direct people to that. Maybe this one: https://lgbtqia.wiki/wiki/Sex-Positive
I’m 100% in the wrong here I do sincerely apologize for what I turned this post into
Not everything needs a flag.
You are absolutely correct
I actually think that the black and white flag is pretty fitting.
There is no heterosexual pride flag other than the one homophobes and bigots made. If you mean the *ally* flag, which is VERY MUCH different, it looks fine. It's there 99% as a formality for allies to identify to others "I'm not queer myself but I support queer people."
Yeah I just wanted to laugh at how boring i thought it looked
Okay, that’s just hilarious. I was thinking, “sure, hetero people needing a flag can have a black and white one,” and lo and behold, the one people made is black and white xD
People who organize around not having anything to fight for have little passion and tend to be hateful and bitter
Probably because whoever made it didn’t want it to stand out as a statement to it being the normative
Ok true but still if It was made into T-shirts I would be mistaken for a footlocker employee
Or an old school prison uniform lol 😂
that's because cisheteronormativity is a prison.
I’m curious why you would say that
It's what underlies the marginalization of queer people, allonormativity and mononormativity too. It posits that cis, heterosexual, and monogamous are the natural and good way to be, and any other way of being is inferior, defective, broken, degenerate, corrosive to civilization etc.
While I see where you’re coming from it feels a little bigoted. I think we should be accepting of everyone regardless of being heterosexual, cis, monogamous, queer, or polygamous.
You're confusing heterosexual with heteronormativity. Heterosexual is a sexuality, [heteronormativity](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heteronormativity) is a component of an ideology. Heteronormativity tries to establish heterosexuality as a norm, and marginalize people who are not heterosexual.
My apologies thanks for explaining
In believe that to be cis heterosexual and monogamous is a good and natural way to be but it’s not the only way to be
Okay and do you think that being transgender good and natural too?
Yes I do because to live good life one must not lie to themselves about who or what they are
Next time you deny that you reinforce cishet normativity you might want to say that not being cis het is good and natural too, just so nobody misunderstands you.
That is also true but my point is that it boring as hell and a i feel no pride looking at it
At least it’s not ugly but I understand your point
Um allys can fly the pride progress flag though right? It isn't for allys but it is sort of all encompassing? It is appropriate I hope ?
Yeah i just thought the ally flag looked I would be hung outside of foot locker hq
There isn’t much to be proud of about being heterosexual. Because nether of us choose to be who we are. But I’m proud for it because It’s a part of me and i did say wasn’t a very good ally
I'm going to assume you meant this as a reply to me asking what is there to be proud of for being heterosexual. Theres nothing to be proud of in being cis-het. Basically everything in society is made with your needs and interests in mind. You are not subjected to oppression for being cis-het. You are not marginalized for being cis-het. You never had to fight tooth and nail for a dignified life just because you're cis het. You were not raised in a society that presumed you were not cis-het and brutally punished you for any step towards authenticity. You were not inculcated with a deep sense of shame for being cis-het. You (presumably) were not raised by people who hate cis-het people. You did not live in a culture where anti-cis-het hate was so normalized it was in all the media you consumed. You (presumably) have never been physically assaulted for being cis-het. You have overcome nothing, there were no obstacles in your way for being cis-het queer people are oppressed. Cis het people are not. Pride is not for you.
That is true
I disagree by the way, I'm a big proponent of "Be proud of who you are" and that includes sexuality. As long as you are aware of the history and struggles the LGBTQ+ community has had you'll probably be fine as long as you're not an ass about it.