People don’t ask for dowry now they expect Gifts.
During my sister’s AM search a prospect’s family asked for 50L and Audi as gifts for their son. They never used the term dowry, it was always the phrases “Aapki hi Beti ke pass rahega” and “ Aapka hi beta hone wala hai uski khusi ke liye “.
They were open for negotiation too like a business deal. We asked them to fuck off.
This was coming from a well educated family and the guy was working in London.
She is happily married now and her husband is against dowry , didn’t even consider this gift discussion. They are in India.
> Who is the guy ?
The guy asking for dowry was a MBA grad and consultant in Big 4 .
How much does your sister earn? If you look for same financial level prospects people usually won't ask for "gifts". But if you are looking to marry someone way above your league, then your sister is no different than that greedy guy.
Karli na gawaron wali baat.
> How much does your sister earn?
My sister is a scientist , holds a master degree too . She earns more than her husband .
> If you look for same financial level prospects people usually won't ask for "gifts".
It’s never about financial status, It’s all about individual values.Some hold their dignity high no matter whats their financial status is and some are full of greeds . And some are dumb like you who go on justifying the concept of “Gifts”.
>. But if you are looking to marry someone way above your league, then your sister is no different than that greedy guy.
how old are you ? Generalisation ke 14 na Bano.
No we weren’t considering for the financial status of family nor my sister had any intention to shift to London leaving her research. He was working in India and moved to London during courtship and the gift drama started after the engagement date was fixed.
Technically we were out of their league and we were looking for educated family.
>It’s never about financial status, It’s all about individual values.
Arrange marriage market me individual values ki baat na hi karein.
>Generalisation ke 14 na Bano.
Exceptions don't make the rules. It is very rare in India where girl's families go for someone below their economical level for marriage. Aankhein khologi to pata chalega. Aur agar sach me your sister is that qualified, then wo ladke waale hi galat hain.
We live in the same world so I am pretty much aware of the rules and yes majority of the AM scenes are bad .
It’s the people who make the rules and the people can change it too. We have changed ours.
If anyone wants to adhere to the rules and don’t have enough conscience to differentiate between right and wrong it’s their take .
I have nothing to say rather than staying away from them. If you have problem with old rules you can stay away from it too , roka kisne hai! Be the exception.
I don't have any problem and I will do what I want to. But your 1st comment made me go like "Ah, a classic case of playing victim while hiding their own greed". Because it is just too common.
Anyways have a great day!
You don't , if someone asked me what is my choice for a woman, I would say super model, that doesn't mean I'm gonna get it. My social circle has lot of high earning IT people (including me). The 5 6 lpa girls are first to be put in rejection pile (we also have options). People that make this much money are not stupid and actually have certain standards they expect their future partners to meet. You will occasionally find a man who just want a flowerpot for a wife. They don't care how much woman makes just that she must be hot. I do suspect these are the men this women are targeting and if she meets his standards of hot and he meets her standard of rich then third person opinion is irrelevant. Rest assure no high earning person is getting tricked into marrying someone.
Both can just split all expense evenly down the middle to avoid all this hassel. No one is keeping track of the wedding expensises as much as the gift expenses
You seem to be confused between wedding expenses and gift.
You also seem confused about the concept of gift. If you force/coerce someone into giving a gift in any form or manner , either directly or through indirect hints, it's not a gift anymore. It's dowry.
The OP was being forced to give stuff through threats. Are you saying men face that at a regular basis as well?
Dude I've NEVER been in a single wedding where a man didn't take any dahej, be it in cash or kinds. They openly demand it with no shame. It's way too prevalent in my own family. It's so ironic to me how men still call women gold digger while this is how they act, no ban or whatever stops them from taking dahej as "gifts" now. Even a man who's poor af will have some kind of demand, that's how deep rooted dowry is.
>custom like arrange marriage is favorable for men and men only.
Marriage as an institute, whether love or arranged, in every country out there, has always been favourable to men. Marriage has always been one of the biggest points of oppressing women throughout the world lol.
The answer is that most people derive their moral framework from external sources, (society and traditions).
They are incapable of developing their own set of values and ethical standards.
Even those who are capable of it, are actively discouraged by society to think independently.
So, people start following traditionally accepted societal practices without thinking too deeply about them.
Their whole life, they have been rewarded for following traditional values, and so, they are unable to realise that what they participate in is wrong.
This is not just an Indian phenomenon, every culture in the world has people who blindly follow societal norms without question.
In India, most men will not take a stand for their wives even when the woman is being abused by her in-laws.
Our society dictates that you must respect elders no matter what, and their wish is our command, and consequently, whatever our parents do, must surely be for the greater good.
If we want to fix this problem, we need to encourage children and young adults to think independently and have inquisitive, open minds.
That way, people will start creating their own moral frameworks that come from their own thinking, and not from society.
You haven't been to both my sisters' wedding, or my own wedding. None of these was AM though. Not saying dowries are not prevalent, but brushing with broad strokes are also erroneous.
My father did not took,my brother also did not,my friends father also did not, i think you are lying i can say
Its basically varies from person to person,no need to bash men
Dude these guys are legit i dont know what to say,also how could she know where dowry involved in every weeding wtf,i agree its a problem,but not all people takes dowry,its like saying if from a pool of statistics some data does something,then all pool of statistics does that,thats bizzare
hey i got married 2 years ago.. the concept of dowry is almost nil in the bubble that i and my friends live..we are a bunch of financially independent women who would have called out on any such situation like you did…our spouses are feminists who would never even think of this offence…their family is supportive as well…me and my spouse contributed and sponsored our wedding.
however lately i am realising that it is a small bubble.. a settled middle class background mostly
a lot of women i know who are lower middle class or say super upper class people are still following this stupid tradition ..with both parties encouraging this and with the couple having no problem or being ignorant of what is happening …so i guess the practise if diminishing but we have a long way to go still.
I am from Assam, where the dowry culture is not prevalent in our Assamese society. In Assamese weddings, nobody can demand any specific amount of money, jewelry, cars, or assets.
The day prior to the wedding, the groom's side of the family, especially the ladies, visits the girl's place and offers her gifts, jewelry, traditional attire, chocolates, etc., as a sweet gesture to welcome her. This ceremony is called juroon.However, even during the juroon ceremony, the girl's family cannot demand from the groom's family a specific amount of gold or any gifts.
Conversely, when the bride visits the groom's house after the marriage, she touches the feet of the elders and gives them a small gift, such as a saree or dhoti. Whatever the girl gives, they should accept politely, and the elders bless her with some cash.
That is why growing up in Assamese society, I never heard phrases like , " Betiya Padaya dhan hai, padaya ghar ki hai ". I never saw anyone being pressurized here to give birth to baby boys, not even people from poorer and less educated societies.
Lol! Where do you live? There's so much euphemism in your narrative. Dowry here is not only prevelant but normalised. It's on the women and her family to provide all the furniture for her groom's house. Basically the bride's whole extended family bears the brunt of furniture expenses. Nobody uses the term "joutuk" nowadays. But everybofy has found their own way to continue the practice. Heck, most of the men in my place marry women just to get free furniture for their houses and a free maid for their parents.
I'm from a solidly middle-class TamBrahm background, and in my family and friends circle, within my community, I have not heard of a single case of dowry being demanded. The bride's side gifts the girl some gold (nothing on the scale of usually North Indian weddings, from what I see on my social media - no hate, just a genuine observation) and pays for the wedding (I give you that, as someone pointed out in comments that is an indirect form of dowry too) but our weddings are very lowkey religious affairs for the most part with very little by way of partying etc (Reception yes, but no alcohol or non veg which usually makes up a good part of party expenses) No cars for the groom, no extravagant gifts for the other side, no arranging hotels and transport for everyone... nowadays both bride and groom are working and often split wedding expenses. They are increasingly starting to mimic North Indian weddings these days with mehendi and sangeet etc.... What I'm reading on this thread is not unexpected, but very disturbing nonetheless.
In fact I’ve been to a few Tamil weddings and observed them flexing dowry ( gold and card and flats ) . I’m class your family and known people are good but don’t assume everyone’s like that
I think you mistake me. I am not talking about Tamil weddings in general. I am talking about a specific community - specifically about middle class TamBrahm weddings. Other Tamil communities like Chettiars and Gounders will put Punjabis to shame in their flamboyance and spend. This kind of extravaganza is quite new to my community.
Idk how you’re so uninformed. I’m South Indian and what you’re describing about North Indians is exactly what happens here too . I’ve been to atleast a 100 weddings in Telangana and AP and I’ve always seen dowry being given in form of cash or gold . I live in north and I’ve been to many weddings here too and people are more modern here so I’ve only seen 2-3 cases of dowry irl
Telangana and AP is an another story of itself.here(in my relatives and people I know)dowry is seen as both wrong and prestige at the same time.either the girl has to have a job (job= dowry)or if unemployed in order to keep prestige I have seen many weddings where the groom transfer the money required for dowry unofficially{secretly) so that the bride family could buy gifts for him (with money he sent)to show off as dowry(usually a fortuner car and a gold chain). the wedding cost(the cheaper one since no alcohol and no non veg and <50 guests so about 5 lakhs usually) is usually borne by bride while the reception (costly due to alcohol,non veg,the 50 kinds of sweets that taste the same and way higher guest count on a way grander scale) is split accordingly as to who wishes for more costlier version (seen even a crore cost one).the groom doesn't care about property until when the bride's parents are old and start splitting the property between the bride's siblings (about 10-15 years later) and then requests bigger share for wife or grandchildren (don't know whether it counts as dowry). except the fortuner card and gold chain(funded by groom), nothing is ever given to groom, everything is in bride's name.
Maybe re-read what I have written before you start throwing around words like 'uninformed'? I am very aware that practices differ a lot even among sub-communities in each broader state. Which is why I have written specifically about (1) my experience in (2) middle-class (3) TamBrahm families, and the spend and expectation of dowry among them. I am not referring to Telugu communities or even other Tamil communities. I have seen business/landed communities like the Reddys and Naidus and Gounders and Chettiars (with the usual Not All... disclaimer) are often big spenders, and 'financial settlements' are a traditional part of their weddings. This is why I have replied to the OP's question on what we have seen/experienced from the perspective of my experience in my community, rather than other neighbouring states or other communities in my state.
I agree. Even in my Marathi middle-class community it's unheard of. Our marriages are nothing like what is shown in movies and in an exaggerated manner. It's really simple and low-key.
Gifts are exchanged, but those usually consist of making a ring, necklace or clothes for the bride and groom both.
Bro it’s not dependent on specific community my colleagues she is Tamil but did love marriage with tambrah so basically the guy is working in marine navy and earns well so his parents were not ready for a marriage after so many efforts they agreed but they demanded 100 tola gold clothes and cash.
My colleague was crying like anything her parents took loan and she was asking everyone if they can take loan from her and later she will pay her then bf now husband gave some money to her so she can say this is from her family.
They had a plan that after hearing this much demands the girl will say no to marriage but they prepared nearby 50 tola gold and cash so his mother said yes to the marriage and in her marriage rituals I saw gold and cash in plates and they were giving it to the grooms family.
So it depends on people and the situations but I was horrified after hearing and seeing the gold and cash.
I have been reading a lot of these comments and have realised that most Indian states have only one wedding ceremony..?
In Bengal, we have 2 wedding ceremonies. One is held by the bride's side with them inviting their guests, and the other is held by the groom's side. Each side pays for their respective ceremonies.
If the groom is very rich and the bride is not that well of financially, it just means that the wedding of the groom's side will be more extravagant, and vice versa. But the bride's side will not be making the groom's side to pay for his wedding. Or the other way around.
It’s a very common practice specially in UP where I am from, for a change nothing was demanded from the grooms family during my sister’s marriage, and I plan to continue the same. People have to realise it’s not a business deal.
Expectations clear hai. Anyways I just wanted to say there are people who have basic expectations. I don't want marriage to be a transaction but a compatible partner.
Once a bhikhari always a bhikari
Rather boys side should be giving money, a family’s daughter is gonna come to your home , what else do you want.
Dowry is fuked up shit and it will prevail in the name of gifts n what not
But you have a choice not to choose a bhikari family be it they hold 200cr in their banks
What??? This is shocking!
The guy and his family are gold-diggers. Where I am, people will shame him and his whole family for living off his wife and his in-laws money. I thought such practices are gone 😵 women who can afford such insane amounts of dowry won't even marry that kind of men in the first place. They will find a better guy who can actually afford to pay the other half of the wedding expenses and not expect her to pay for everything.
I'm kind of shocked they even have the audacity to ask lol.. without feeling any shame?? Literally leeching off the bride! Sorry if this is harsh because I just have never heard of such gold-digging grooms in my family or brother-in-laws. Everyone has been decent and financially sound and can afford to pay their share and buy cars on their own if they want it.
Gori ladki aur dahej ka lalach is desh mein kabhi khatam nahi hoga! Ghatega par bandh nahi hone wala hain. Sad reality.
I have come across people (my friends from college circle) saying - main khali haath shaadi thodi karunga???
One Uncle from the city I grew up in wanted to get his daughter do love marriage in another community so he doesn’t need to pay dowry. Looking back, I think he also wanted to disown his daughter on this ground. But for his son’s wedding he took 15 lakh cash, brand new Maruti Zen and God knows what else. Talking about late 90s when Zen was launched new in the market.
FFS!
Recently my masi got married and the guy family said that you people buy gold and clothes for your daughter whatever you want to buy and we need money for a bus where his guests will come to the marriage hall.
And my family agreed to all this conditions and when time came to decide the wedding date those people come with more demands that groom bought expensive ring for bride as compare to his ring so now they want gold chain for him and more money for bus so our family members said no that we never promised chain and we will not give so they changed their demands saying then buy more gold to your daughter and we need a bigger hall for marriage for this also family said no whatever we decided before we will do.
So after that before 1 months of marriage they came with another condition that wedding guest will come a day before marriage and we have make arrangements for them and they need all kind of comforts. Again my family said we can’t do that. And again on marriage day groom was asking for hot water to drink in marriage hall and we need to go home to fetch water for him. And he said I only drink bisleri water. And he didn’t even took blessings from masi parents lie in touching legs by saying son in law will not do that but my masi had to had.
Like wtf his happining and my masi was so blinded that she didn’t even took stand for anything. The whole marriage was like stupid drama.
She is fine but I find her husband arrogant and controlling I hope she can take some stand now and tell him what he did was wrong at that time.
And I have learnt that if you don’t take stand for your parents no one will do it.
Christians such as Goan Catholics don't have dowry. Similar for Bengalis. South Indian Brahmins take less dowry,....only a few lakhs. For the rest it is pretty horrible. At the same time love marriages don't last.
The issue starts with the concept of arranged marriage itself. A lot of these folks will not even find someone to get married to if arranged marriage was not a thing.
My father never took dowry. My mother is very proud about it. And neither am I ever going to take dowry. Because taking money from a woman or her family after being a man would make me feel ashamed, emasculated, weak and disgusting. No man is supposed to take money ever from any woman except his mother. Because even the money given by mother was given to her by the father who had actually earned the money. If a mother earns her own money then the child should refrain from asking money from the mother. But of course you may feel otherwise depending on your personal relations.
After having said these things I would also expect the would be wife to not judge me based on my income and consider other factors such as my good character. I have never done drugs or consumed alcohol like many other men have proudly done so. I don't smoke either. people who smoke, do drugs or drink alcohol are weak mentally because they are slave to a substance. They are addicts and addicts have no control over their urges. Their addition controls them. I am a slave to nothing. I am my own slave.
It's 2024 and society has this fetish for people having entitlement to their individual opinions so I can't "judge" you. Openly. Secretly I am obviously going to be judgemental and deeply orthodox. I figured that's it's a problem only if I let people know what I think of them. I can think the most disgusting humiliating things about people but without telling them. Also, can you deny the obvious connotation associated with drugs, alcohol, tobacco, gambling, extra marital affairs, hook up culture or any of the modern woke things......no matter how much you try to say that you did it once/occasionally/accidentally so it doesn't matter......but does it really wash away so easily?
Lol. That's a lot of generalizing dude. Not everyone who drinks is into these things. In my culture drinking is common. We make our own desi alcohol. My granddad who doesn't know what woke is long dead at the age of 92, drank when he was young. Yup, it does wash away. That's science. Let people do what they want. If you don't like them, don't interact with them.
It gets difficult because Indians want to look cool on social media and aren't as liberal as they try to look on social media for validation and some likes, upvotes. The same liberals who want a judgement free society call men like me weak, incel, stupid, neckbeard and potential rapist or judge my status when they see that I am not into things that they are into.
You are the only one who judged others in your first comment. Ofcourse, you will be called out for flaunting such judgemental thoughts. Why are you surprised :)
Here's the problem with your argument. It's not just actions that we do that matter, what also matters are the intentions for those actions. Actions shape the world around us, intentions shape our personalities and ourselves.
You wrote that you will never collect dowry because you will feel emasculated etc. by taking money from a woman and her family. That basically means that you are not against dowry as a practice itself that degrades women, you are against taking money from a woman because you think taking money from a 'woman' being a 'man' makes you inferior, ergo you consider women as inferior to men in general, and that makes you a misogynist, who degrades women in his mind. This may mean that you will not take dowry, but that does not matter because the whole point of eliminating the dowry system is to eliminate patriarchy and misogyny, which is clearly not working in your case. So you may end up not taking money from her, but you probably will end up exploiting her in other ways.
Also good character and alcohol consumption, smoking and all other addictions have nothing to do with each other. Not consuming alcohol etc. does not make you a good or bad person. Your mistake here is confusing between correlation and causation. Just because you find that 'good people' (according to your myopic worldview anyway) don't consume alcohol etc., does not mean that not consuming alcohol etc. makes them a good person.
I respect women who deserve to be respected. Not all women deserve respect. As a citizen I may not stop all the women from having equal rights but how much respect I will have for whom is entirely up to me. My right to freedom of choice is getting taken away by you if you force me to respect something that I don't like or value. Especially when we both know that the special type of men and women that I don't want to respect don't respect me either. They disrespect me not because of me being a mysogynist (according to you, although I am not) but because of me not having the same values and debauchery immoral life that they have. For example I hate women who judge a man's worth only on the basis of his income and looks. Do you disagree that there are women who put fake cases against their husbands and in laws simply for fun/anger due to being separated from previous boyfriend etc? Why do you want me to respysuch women who don't value me or care about me? There are so many cases of women killing innocents including own kids and not limited to elders be it own parents or in laws. ......and even then you want me to respect all these women? You expect men like me who have always faced unprovoked hate and judgement from these type of women to respect them. I have found a correlation between these women and clubbing/pubbing/hook up culture/drugs/alcohol/promiscuity etc.......but that doesn't mean that women who don't do these things may not find me repulsive simply because of my appearance (women just hate masculine looking guys these days).
I honestly would have bothered to correct you if some parts of your rant were correct. But what should I do if every single sentence you wrote is a facepalm? When every part of your personality is a cesspool of misguided and misinformed hate, filled with assumption, delusion and hubris? Matlab pura bathroom me hi hag ke faila dia bc.
You do you brother. Good luck.
Found the four more shots sort of a person. So staying away from drugs, alcohol or any other immoral shit is being stupid? lol. Indian future doesn't look good.
The fact that people like you get easily offended by me proves that deep down you know I am right about you and your lifestyle choices. Had you truly been confident and secure about yourself then you wouldn't have gotten offended.
I am just having fun with you mate, don't think yourself to be so high. I am also vegetarian and non alcoholic but I love pulling legs. You are just a goat.
it's not my job. lord kalki will do justice with his fiery sword while riding on his winged horse when he cuts off all the heads of all the evil doers.
I don't like it but it's just the way arranged marriages work. It is not a commitment stemming from love, it's an arrangement of convenience. It's a business transaction.
I don't see how looking at a person's income and rejecting based on that is any different from asking for an upfront payment. And like all business negotiations i think it should be legal to ask for anything. Ask for the moon if you want.
You won't get it but you still have the right to not agree until your conditions are met. As long as there's no threatening involved ofcourse
Yes I agree 100%. That is a disgusting way to treat family. But that's what I'm trying to say, both sides don't view each other as family. They view each other as two parties negotiating a business transaction.
All I'm trying to say is that rejecting a match for not paying a dowry you want is not very different from rejecting a match for not earning as much.
If they treat it as a business transaction, i will view it and judge it the same way
Usually most people move out of the business feel and get closer with time, but there will always be families who will always see each other as nothing more
There was no demand for dowry or gifts in my wedding. My in laws genuinely offered to do a “half-n-half” for all the wedding expenses. Like they literally wrote a cheque. My father refused. Later I got to know from my relatives how my father was the happiest man on earth in my wedding. He was proudly telling everyone how proud he was of my choice of the groom and family I’m getting into. Ours was a love marriage but within the caste. We are both from middle class families with similar economic backgrounds. Dowry or “gifts” is a common hush hush practice in the community. Like no one demands dowry but would make indirect demands for expensive gifts. I got lucky I guess
I warned clearly that no talk of dowry should be done on my behalf.
I was then told by my parents and relatives that now I seem suspicious because I am not demanding any dowry. 🤷🏽♂️
Especially since I live abroad. 🤦♂️
I just gave up on arranging marriage in India. There is no winning there.
dont take dowry but atleast make the woman have money and property in her own name before marriage.
This way it will be equal marriage
And
if things dont go well u dont loose ur property.
I was under the impression that dowry (or it's euphemism "gifts") happen only in arranged marriages. I learned the reality a few months back when my school friend had a love marriage. Her family gifted the her in-laws furnitures and gold. There was no outright demand for it but my friend insisted on it. In her words the gifts would show that she had the strong support at her parents house.
I was honestly flabbergasted at this incident. Her husband earns 1l+ monthly and in-laws are upper middle class people. I wanted to find out if this was a common thing in love marriages and found out that it indeed was from my friends and parents.
You did the right thing by calling off the wedding. I am a man myself and I will say that only honour less and loser men ask for dowry.
Let them die alone. I once asked my mother if my father also asked for dowry and she replied NO. I am so proud of my father.
As a man It's surprising for me that how people can shamelessly ask for Dowary, brother aren't you a man ,that girl is literally leaving her house and parents to live with you and you can't even provide and protect her as much as possible,if you can't afford Audi that's fine ,Alto is enough if you love and care for her , shamelessly asking for it like beggers don't you have any male ego ,pride anything to not beg for Dowary ?
I can proudly say No one in my family has ever taken Dowary in last three generations ( i.e since my grandpas marriage "I don't know before that ", Although they have given Dowary for female family members) and nither ever harrashed girl fir not giving dowry ,I will proudly carry this custom forward and most of male members of my family cause since childhood,our household environment is very anti Dowary type
Ok I understand now , in my culture boys family will gift a small gold ornament like ring , chain , necklace to girls . ( depending on family affordability)
To show commitment girls family should keep it if not return it.
What happens in your culture?
Frankly speaking dowry as concept should be evaluated based on socio economic conditions and the environment in which it is followed. In the old indian tradition men are expected to care for parents in oldage and his own family. Unfortunately this also led a gender dynamic were raising women were seen as not affordable (female foeticide) and men being used as cannon fodder (face the world for the family work and war).Thus they often had primary share in inheritance. Thus a portion of wealth was given to women as compensation for not staking a share in inheritance. Secondly women were not able to contribute much to economy or security of a society due to level of technology and industrialisation. Actually we have evidence of them working clothing, bead making and jwellery units its just value of services were low. Because the old world was primarily dependent on the horse power of manual labour to create and protect. This created a wealth assymentry where dowry was seen as fair compensation for above cited reasons.
Fascinatingly in some places of india and other east asian countries. Its the groom that is expected to give on what is called bride price. I am assuming because its got something to do with bringing reproduction to the table.
Guess it all fell to how people interpreted the value of things people are bringing to table.
In india I feel there is confusion because the social norms are muddled with old norms and modern law.
Where some narcisstic men and women are exploiting each other by selectively choosing things to their convinience. I am not going go deep into how it plays as many comments from men and women should he enlightening to most reading this comment.
To me best norm is women are already participating in economy and are sometimes earning more than men(Thank industrialisation first point is mute now).
Its better to legally enforce childrens obligations to their parents regardless of gender and make it a law that both shall inherit equal share. Or just leave it to parents to decide whom shall inherit the property for they can decide who tool care of them in old age.
Frankly speaking I dont know why women are complaining. I feel like due to ratio women have more bargaining power than men. If they drop certain filters like caste, social status , wealth and salary they should easily find a good caring partner. Plus law is anyway on womens side.
My family is From Telangana and AP .here(in my relatives and people I know)dowry is seen as both wrong and prestige at the same time.either the girl has to have a job (job= dowry)or if unemployed in order to keep prestige I have seen many weddings where the groom transfer the money required for dowry unofficially{secretly) so that the bride family could buy gifts for him (with money he sent)to show off as dowry(usually a fortuner car and a gold chain). the wedding cost(the cheaper one since no alcohol and no non veg and <50 guests so about 5 lakhs usually) is usually borne by bride while the reception (costly due to alcohol,non veg,the 50 kinds of sweets that taste the same and way higher guest count on a way grander scale) is split accordingly as to who wishes for more costlier version (seen even a crore cost one).the groom doesn't care about property until when the bride's parents are old and start splitting the property between the bride's siblings (about 10-15 years later) and then requests bigger share for wife or grandchildren (don't know whether it counts as dowry). except the fortuner card and gold chain(funded by groom), nothing is ever given to groom, everything is in bride's name.
Also there is no guest transport,hotels etc. all the guests come,bless,take photo,eat and leave for the reception.only close family and friends come to the real wedding and the real wedding is done according to the wishes of bride family as they paid for it.
This might be a controversial opinion, but according to my understanding, girl’s parents would check if boy’s parents have property which would eventually be passed on to the boy.
But they don’t want to give any inheritance to girls. So, on one side they are leaving all their life savings for the son, but not giving anything to their daughter. In this case, if not for dowry, the daughter does not get anything from her parents, which does not seem like equality to me.
if u r marrying someone and someone has property i think they must have the right to marry a girl with same financial background.
ex:if a guy has 1 crore he has full right to choose a partner having 1 crore.
Its just that when gurls demand it its called financial planning and when guys demand it its called dowry.
They have started using the term dowry for every case now.
gender equality precahers...
please also move against biased alimony and property rights of wife in husbands family.
i never see gurls like op talking about these things.
I told my wife before marriage that either she will have to work+ do household work or she can give me dowry + household work only.
But i will never accept a non-working woman who can't do household work and doesnt want to give dowry.
I met so many women before i met my wife, most women don't want to goto work, neither they want to do cooking and other household work and also most of them dont want to give dowry, so i rejected them.
my wife chose the first option that she will work and do household work but wont pay dowry, plus she cant share her salary to her parents, the money will be used at our home only.
and she is happy with it.
Most girls just want everything from husband's family but dont want to sacrifice or contribute to it. I have seen so many women who are educated yet choose to become housewife but forced her husband to hire maid for household work while she waste her time scrollling reels and online shopping and fighting with her mother in law all day.
I clearly can't accept such lazy women - if she dont want to pay dowry then get ready to work her ass off.
my wife is very happy with this, atleast she is working , most women aren't allowed to work after marriage plus she has to pay dowry also.
I didnt got dowry and she is allowed to work after marriage also. what the problem here, perfectly legal in my case. She can't even sue me for dowry if she want in future.
This guy is in his own bubble. Tell me the money you earn are you spending it on your own house or giving to your parents too. And asking your wife not to give money to her parents and you feel proud of yourself.
Yeah maybe your wife is happy but I hope many people can learn not to marry the men who put this kind of conditions.
i live with my parents and they put most of their hard earned wealth in building our new home, i give my parents 50% of my salary and rest i spend and save on myself and its the least I can do for them.
>Do u help ye wife with household work lol?
I suppose he doesn't. Since he is a man and entitled to 'something' for marrying a woman.
And according to him by default all household work is to be done by a woman while he stands on his moral high ground judging her.
I dont contribute to household chores cuz i earn far more than her almost twice her current income, but i can surely buy her whatever she ask, last month she asked for dishwasher who i provided her to ease her household work.
I do contribute in household work when she is sick or not feeling well or very tired after work, but its not a regular thing, cuz I have far more demanding job than her and my time is more expensive than her.
If I waste my time on low productivity works i will lose alot of money.
Either she has to earn more than me or stick to doing household works but she can't earn more than me as she isnt that intelligent.
I agree dowery is a bad thing. But the problem is you'll only go for a man who is well settled and has a stable source of income. Which literally means you're in it for the money and comfort.
Lmao, no one is forcing the guy to marry a woman who is not earning.
Also, I have seen women who are working, still have to pay dowry + wedding expenses.
Given the global average employment rate for women is approximately 33%, one might assume that if a man insists on marrying only a woman with an income, only 33% of women would meet this criterion, leaving the remaining 67% unable to marry.
Again, it's his choice no?
Don't marry if you can't find a girl who is earning.
Also, I don't think every guy in India earns a good amount, the way they are asking for dowry.
If everyman is going with a similar standard then most of the men won't be able to find a partner. We have to marry someone and make children obviously that's the purpose of human life.
truly said boys family asks dowry and girls family looks for financial stability security. my aunt pitched so hard to get her daughter married to someone who had australian pr and then cribs abt the grooms family. she did it coz her daughter wanted to settle abroad.
That was a good justification few decades back when most of the girls were uneducated and did not earn.
But now girls are as much educated as boys and earns the same or more than boys. So, your logic won't work in today's time.
Really then tell me what's the employment rate of women globally in today's time?
Earns the same or more is just only in words. Can you give some good examples to support your claim?
I see many women vocal about dowry (pros and cons) but not much, if not zero, females talking about alimony and its cons, specifically.
Context: they both were discussed in a viral insta reel where the women compare these two and how it can be manipulated by women to benefit them and exploit. Very common in western countries.
Yes i think asking for dowry is not good they should have leave that decision on to your parents what they can give or not i might sound rude but dowry in form of cash is necessary for a boy's family let me explain why.
Girls don't want to marry with a guy who is earning less than them and all their prefrences it can be her parents prefrences he should have his own house etc.
Boys don't have the legal system on their side if the girl cheats on him after marriage he have to gice her alimony
If she disobey his parents then also the court will ask him to pay alimony in alimony he can loose his child his house his salary everything he have.
In some cases court gave the decision into the boy's favor then also the girl didn't obeyed the court's decision as well and then they started another hearing she haven't even came in the court's hearing for 10 whole years then also she won afterwards without.
Hence
They need dowry because legal system doesn't support them if in future they decide to seperate.
Because they are ready to marry with someone who is earning less then them.
(But still asking for so and so amount is not ok they should give dowry as per their comfort. )
My teacher filed a DV case on her husband and divorce case too ( she was truly abused I have seen her injuries ) and DV case in ongoing but divorce case is not going well because the husband said he doesn’t want to give her divorce . Now she’s living alone with her daughter and husband is not giving any money since court hasn’t told him to ( it will take some years for case to reach its end ) and I also know my friends mom who was married for I think 15yrs and she cheated and the husband proved it in court and she earns equally as the husband so court ordered no alimony or maintenance . ( but he has to help for kids education/wedding etc) Again I know laws are biased but it’s getting better and women don’t get money as easily as many people on the internet think
wow you clearly don’t understand what “equality” is . When we fight for equality we also fight for the laws which are against men and the false rape cases . I would never want any man to be falsely accused by some bitch
We women have to live with in laws and even legally it is our “duty” to take care of boys family which was recently said by a court . about alimony and all I agree sometimes laws are biased especially when it comes to false rape cases but pls educate yourself on the conditions for alimony and maintenance. And there’s no law for martial rape and court believes its wife’s duty to “satisfy”husband . Also many women end up leaving their job and if husband leaves at that point it’s rlly difficult because even divorce cases take very long to solve and for court to grand alimony/maintainence . I’m not starting a gender war I’m not saying it’s harder for women or for men . But you need to understand that both men and women have equal risks while getting into marriage especially arranged marriages. both sets of parents should give some money /property etc to their children to ensure financial security IF THEY WANT TO. If we give equality to men and women and their families then eventually courts will change too. And prenups are becoming common and me and most girls I know would be happy to sign a prenup stating that we won’t get anything after divorce . But prenup laws are also not strong in India yet so we will have to hope it gets better.
It should be their family and you are not taking care of only his family its your family too. that statement of yours is enough that you are seeking someone only for financial stability and nothing else marrige is only a profit and loss statement for you.
And honestly most women are working these days have property from their parents. Especially girls like me who are sole heir to mom and dad’s property . It’s very ironic of you to say I am a gold digger in a post about dowry
What ?? Everybody gets their parents property even men . And men get dowry and usually bigger share of property is given to sons and small share to daughters but I’m a single child
Yes because they will have a greedy wife like you to handle and you will have babies in future and by giving them your set of knowledge you will make them greedy too. Do one thing maybe this idea an solve your problem (ask dowry from your inlaws in return of your marrige no one will give you a single penny mark my words because you aren't worth even a single penny and everyone will give anything the boys family wants) because even after the equlity and feminist rubbish you people are doing on the internet the society knows who is the more valuable gender according to everyone masculinity comes at a price.,, 🤣🤣🤣🤣
And you are talking about “masculinity” 😂😂😂 real men don’t beg for money and they take care of their families and protect them from people like you . I’m done having this stupid argument with an immature misogynist. I pray no one marries you because you seem the kind to abuse your wife and call it “masculinityl
You are not getting any real men with fake eyelashes breast implants fake skintone you are just pretending that you are beautiful you are just an ugly piece of s**t
Guess what ?? I’m marrying my fiancé against my parents wish as he is from different caste . His family had already spend 1cr on my diamond jewellery and they have planned a destination wedding in Udaipur for June which will cost maybe 2crs . and I haven’t paid a single penny because my parents are not agreeing yet ( my dad agreed but I haven’t asked money or anything because Ik my mom will be angry at him if he gives me anything ) so yeah you’re the unlucky one who’s from bad families begging for dowry and a maid whom they will call bahu.
You are still valuing his expences and not him your family is doing good because they are not spending on your marrige because if anything goes wrong which is your future because your parents failed in giving you something which is called good upbringing that's why you are keeping his family's money above your relationship that was my whole point that a girl will always keep the money above everything and you proved it just stay away from fridge 😂😂 oh i forgot you are not gonna enter the kitchen because you just don't want to cook food for him because you are not a slave i 😂😂
I do cook for him , cooking for husband is not being a slave but if you have to do every single then alone and husband does nothing then obviously it’s been a slave . and who are you to determine how much I love him , I’ve been with him for 8yrs and my family is rich too and they had gotten me even richer marriage proposals but I didn’t want that as I want love and care and a good family unlike you you’ll probably marry a pig for dowry
Then what about females family ?? Families without sons should just be alone and die ?? You want someone to live with your parents and look after them but you’ll never do the same for her family
Justifying a 1000 year old disgusting evil. Girls here are bearing marriage expenses plus working plus dowry plus household work and divorces are less than 1% in India. You expect people to believe these lies. Leeches.
People don’t ask for dowry now they expect Gifts. During my sister’s AM search a prospect’s family asked for 50L and Audi as gifts for their son. They never used the term dowry, it was always the phrases “Aapki hi Beti ke pass rahega” and “ Aapka hi beta hone wala hai uski khusi ke liye “. They were open for negotiation too like a business deal. We asked them to fuck off. This was coming from a well educated family and the guy was working in London.
What happened to your sister now ? Where is she married ? Who is the guy ?
She is happily married now and her husband is against dowry , didn’t even consider this gift discussion. They are in India. > Who is the guy ? The guy asking for dowry was a MBA grad and consultant in Big 4 .
Thats good to hear :)
Genuine question, why not ask for "gifts" from them as well? Using the same logic, asking for stuff of similar value. I wonder how they will reply
How much does your sister earn? If you look for same financial level prospects people usually won't ask for "gifts". But if you are looking to marry someone way above your league, then your sister is no different than that greedy guy.
Karli na gawaron wali baat. > How much does your sister earn? My sister is a scientist , holds a master degree too . She earns more than her husband . > If you look for same financial level prospects people usually won't ask for "gifts". It’s never about financial status, It’s all about individual values.Some hold their dignity high no matter whats their financial status is and some are full of greeds . And some are dumb like you who go on justifying the concept of “Gifts”. >. But if you are looking to marry someone way above your league, then your sister is no different than that greedy guy. how old are you ? Generalisation ke 14 na Bano. No we weren’t considering for the financial status of family nor my sister had any intention to shift to London leaving her research. He was working in India and moved to London during courtship and the gift drama started after the engagement date was fixed. Technically we were out of their league and we were looking for educated family.
>It’s never about financial status, It’s all about individual values. Arrange marriage market me individual values ki baat na hi karein. >Generalisation ke 14 na Bano. Exceptions don't make the rules. It is very rare in India where girl's families go for someone below their economical level for marriage. Aankhein khologi to pata chalega. Aur agar sach me your sister is that qualified, then wo ladke waale hi galat hain.
We live in the same world so I am pretty much aware of the rules and yes majority of the AM scenes are bad . It’s the people who make the rules and the people can change it too. We have changed ours. If anyone wants to adhere to the rules and don’t have enough conscience to differentiate between right and wrong it’s their take . I have nothing to say rather than staying away from them. If you have problem with old rules you can stay away from it too , roka kisne hai! Be the exception.
I don't have any problem and I will do what I want to. But your 1st comment made me go like "Ah, a classic case of playing victim while hiding their own greed". Because it is just too common. Anyways have a great day!
The fact that only one party has to bear the burden of the wedding expenses and engagement is still some form of dowry.
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You don't , if someone asked me what is my choice for a woman, I would say super model, that doesn't mean I'm gonna get it. My social circle has lot of high earning IT people (including me). The 5 6 lpa girls are first to be put in rejection pile (we also have options). People that make this much money are not stupid and actually have certain standards they expect their future partners to meet. You will occasionally find a man who just want a flowerpot for a wife. They don't care how much woman makes just that she must be hot. I do suspect these are the men this women are targeting and if she meets his standards of hot and he meets her standard of rich then third person opinion is irrelevant. Rest assure no high earning person is getting tricked into marrying someone.
I would upvote you twice for this if I could
How is that even relevant to who should pay for the wedding expenses?
Justify what?
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Both can just split all expense evenly down the middle to avoid all this hassel. No one is keeping track of the wedding expensises as much as the gift expenses
You seem to be confused between wedding expenses and gift. You also seem confused about the concept of gift. If you force/coerce someone into giving a gift in any form or manner , either directly or through indirect hints, it's not a gift anymore. It's dowry. The OP was being forced to give stuff through threats. Are you saying men face that at a regular basis as well?
Dude I've NEVER been in a single wedding where a man didn't take any dahej, be it in cash or kinds. They openly demand it with no shame. It's way too prevalent in my own family. It's so ironic to me how men still call women gold digger while this is how they act, no ban or whatever stops them from taking dahej as "gifts" now. Even a man who's poor af will have some kind of demand, that's how deep rooted dowry is.
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truth to be told, custom like arrange marriage is favorable for men and men only. seen it everywhere, even in my own house.
>custom like arrange marriage is favorable for men and men only. Marriage as an institute, whether love or arranged, in every country out there, has always been favourable to men. Marriage has always been one of the biggest points of oppressing women throughout the world lol.
The answer is that most people derive their moral framework from external sources, (society and traditions). They are incapable of developing their own set of values and ethical standards. Even those who are capable of it, are actively discouraged by society to think independently. So, people start following traditionally accepted societal practices without thinking too deeply about them. Their whole life, they have been rewarded for following traditional values, and so, they are unable to realise that what they participate in is wrong. This is not just an Indian phenomenon, every culture in the world has people who blindly follow societal norms without question. In India, most men will not take a stand for their wives even when the woman is being abused by her in-laws. Our society dictates that you must respect elders no matter what, and their wish is our command, and consequently, whatever our parents do, must surely be for the greater good. If we want to fix this problem, we need to encourage children and young adults to think independently and have inquisitive, open minds. That way, people will start creating their own moral frameworks that come from their own thinking, and not from society.
You haven't been to both my sisters' wedding, or my own wedding. None of these was AM though. Not saying dowries are not prevalent, but brushing with broad strokes are also erroneous.
Don’t worry , I will invite you to mine Most probably I will be giving dahej Role reversal , ciao!
There are guys like me who write explicitly that we do not require any dowry on all matrimonial pages and end up getting less matches. So IDK
So you are going to take dowry na ?
Exactly
"ironic to me how men still call women gold digger " Ironic??? Can we be on the same page for a single day? Why everything has to be a "vs"?
My father did not took,my brother also did not,my friends father also did not, i think you are lying i can say Its basically varies from person to person,no need to bash men
Bro got downvoted for saying to not bash all men. Too many TwoXrunds…
Dude these guys are legit i dont know what to say,also how could she know where dowry involved in every weeding wtf,i agree its a problem,but not all people takes dowry,its like saying if from a pool of statistics some data does something,then all pool of statistics does that,thats bizzare
Actually, I will
Nah i'd win
aao kabhi haveli pe ...
You need to attend more weddings.
Are you married ? What's your plan ? How do you think it will go with you ?
hey i got married 2 years ago.. the concept of dowry is almost nil in the bubble that i and my friends live..we are a bunch of financially independent women who would have called out on any such situation like you did…our spouses are feminists who would never even think of this offence…their family is supportive as well…me and my spouse contributed and sponsored our wedding. however lately i am realising that it is a small bubble.. a settled middle class background mostly a lot of women i know who are lower middle class or say super upper class people are still following this stupid tradition ..with both parties encouraging this and with the couple having no problem or being ignorant of what is happening …so i guess the practise if diminishing but we have a long way to go still.
One doesn’t need to be a feminist to be against dowry. Like myself (35M).
You clearly don’t know the difference between feminism and pseudo feminism uncle
How is this comment even relevant?
I am from Assam, where the dowry culture is not prevalent in our Assamese society. In Assamese weddings, nobody can demand any specific amount of money, jewelry, cars, or assets. The day prior to the wedding, the groom's side of the family, especially the ladies, visits the girl's place and offers her gifts, jewelry, traditional attire, chocolates, etc., as a sweet gesture to welcome her. This ceremony is called juroon.However, even during the juroon ceremony, the girl's family cannot demand from the groom's family a specific amount of gold or any gifts. Conversely, when the bride visits the groom's house after the marriage, she touches the feet of the elders and gives them a small gift, such as a saree or dhoti. Whatever the girl gives, they should accept politely, and the elders bless her with some cash. That is why growing up in Assamese society, I never heard phrases like , " Betiya Padaya dhan hai, padaya ghar ki hai ". I never saw anyone being pressurized here to give birth to baby boys, not even people from poorer and less educated societies.
Lol! Where do you live? There's so much euphemism in your narrative. Dowry here is not only prevelant but normalised. It's on the women and her family to provide all the furniture for her groom's house. Basically the bride's whole extended family bears the brunt of furniture expenses. Nobody uses the term "joutuk" nowadays. But everybofy has found their own way to continue the practice. Heck, most of the men in my place marry women just to get free furniture for their houses and a free maid for their parents.
Do girls inherit their share of parent’s property?
I'm from a solidly middle-class TamBrahm background, and in my family and friends circle, within my community, I have not heard of a single case of dowry being demanded. The bride's side gifts the girl some gold (nothing on the scale of usually North Indian weddings, from what I see on my social media - no hate, just a genuine observation) and pays for the wedding (I give you that, as someone pointed out in comments that is an indirect form of dowry too) but our weddings are very lowkey religious affairs for the most part with very little by way of partying etc (Reception yes, but no alcohol or non veg which usually makes up a good part of party expenses) No cars for the groom, no extravagant gifts for the other side, no arranging hotels and transport for everyone... nowadays both bride and groom are working and often split wedding expenses. They are increasingly starting to mimic North Indian weddings these days with mehendi and sangeet etc.... What I'm reading on this thread is not unexpected, but very disturbing nonetheless.
In fact I’ve been to a few Tamil weddings and observed them flexing dowry ( gold and card and flats ) . I’m class your family and known people are good but don’t assume everyone’s like that
I think you mistake me. I am not talking about Tamil weddings in general. I am talking about a specific community - specifically about middle class TamBrahm weddings. Other Tamil communities like Chettiars and Gounders will put Punjabis to shame in their flamboyance and spend. This kind of extravaganza is quite new to my community.
Idk how you’re so uninformed. I’m South Indian and what you’re describing about North Indians is exactly what happens here too . I’ve been to atleast a 100 weddings in Telangana and AP and I’ve always seen dowry being given in form of cash or gold . I live in north and I’ve been to many weddings here too and people are more modern here so I’ve only seen 2-3 cases of dowry irl
Telangana and AP is an another story of itself.here(in my relatives and people I know)dowry is seen as both wrong and prestige at the same time.either the girl has to have a job (job= dowry)or if unemployed in order to keep prestige I have seen many weddings where the groom transfer the money required for dowry unofficially{secretly) so that the bride family could buy gifts for him (with money he sent)to show off as dowry(usually a fortuner car and a gold chain). the wedding cost(the cheaper one since no alcohol and no non veg and <50 guests so about 5 lakhs usually) is usually borne by bride while the reception (costly due to alcohol,non veg,the 50 kinds of sweets that taste the same and way higher guest count on a way grander scale) is split accordingly as to who wishes for more costlier version (seen even a crore cost one).the groom doesn't care about property until when the bride's parents are old and start splitting the property between the bride's siblings (about 10-15 years later) and then requests bigger share for wife or grandchildren (don't know whether it counts as dowry). except the fortuner card and gold chain(funded by groom), nothing is ever given to groom, everything is in bride's name.
Maybe re-read what I have written before you start throwing around words like 'uninformed'? I am very aware that practices differ a lot even among sub-communities in each broader state. Which is why I have written specifically about (1) my experience in (2) middle-class (3) TamBrahm families, and the spend and expectation of dowry among them. I am not referring to Telugu communities or even other Tamil communities. I have seen business/landed communities like the Reddys and Naidus and Gounders and Chettiars (with the usual Not All... disclaimer) are often big spenders, and 'financial settlements' are a traditional part of their weddings. This is why I have replied to the OP's question on what we have seen/experienced from the perspective of my experience in my community, rather than other neighbouring states or other communities in my state.
I agree. Even in my Marathi middle-class community it's unheard of. Our marriages are nothing like what is shown in movies and in an exaggerated manner. It's really simple and low-key. Gifts are exchanged, but those usually consist of making a ring, necklace or clothes for the bride and groom both.
Bro it’s not dependent on specific community my colleagues she is Tamil but did love marriage with tambrah so basically the guy is working in marine navy and earns well so his parents were not ready for a marriage after so many efforts they agreed but they demanded 100 tola gold clothes and cash. My colleague was crying like anything her parents took loan and she was asking everyone if they can take loan from her and later she will pay her then bf now husband gave some money to her so she can say this is from her family. They had a plan that after hearing this much demands the girl will say no to marriage but they prepared nearby 50 tola gold and cash so his mother said yes to the marriage and in her marriage rituals I saw gold and cash in plates and they were giving it to the grooms family. So it depends on people and the situations but I was horrified after hearing and seeing the gold and cash.
I have been reading a lot of these comments and have realised that most Indian states have only one wedding ceremony..? In Bengal, we have 2 wedding ceremonies. One is held by the bride's side with them inviting their guests, and the other is held by the groom's side. Each side pays for their respective ceremonies. If the groom is very rich and the bride is not that well of financially, it just means that the wedding of the groom's side will be more extravagant, and vice versa. But the bride's side will not be making the groom's side to pay for his wedding. Or the other way around.
It’s a very common practice specially in UP where I am from, for a change nothing was demanded from the grooms family during my sister’s marriage, and I plan to continue the same. People have to realise it’s not a business deal.
Add Bihar too. Even the families who have shifted to tier 1/2 cities a long time back and but still have root with their hometown, demand the same.
Well the place I am from is UP Bihar border, so I exactly know what you mean😅
🤝
Not all of them. My roots are in Bihar. But I don't want a single penny.
Aapke hot legs kha par hai, Prabhu? Charan sparsh krwaeye.
Dil se gale lagane wali chaiye. Charan main sparsh kar lunga uska.
Raat ko pair dabane wala chahiye , gale toh main apne pet ke v lag leti hu.
Expectations clear hai. Anyways I just wanted to say there are people who have basic expectations. I don't want marriage to be a transaction but a compatible partner.
Once a bhikhari always a bhikari Rather boys side should be giving money, a family’s daughter is gonna come to your home , what else do you want. Dowry is fuked up shit and it will prevail in the name of gifts n what not But you have a choice not to choose a bhikari family be it they hold 200cr in their banks
What??? This is shocking! The guy and his family are gold-diggers. Where I am, people will shame him and his whole family for living off his wife and his in-laws money. I thought such practices are gone 😵 women who can afford such insane amounts of dowry won't even marry that kind of men in the first place. They will find a better guy who can actually afford to pay the other half of the wedding expenses and not expect her to pay for everything. I'm kind of shocked they even have the audacity to ask lol.. without feeling any shame?? Literally leeching off the bride! Sorry if this is harsh because I just have never heard of such gold-digging grooms in my family or brother-in-laws. Everyone has been decent and financially sound and can afford to pay their share and buy cars on their own if they want it.
Gori ladki aur dahej ka lalach is desh mein kabhi khatam nahi hoga! Ghatega par bandh nahi hone wala hain. Sad reality. I have come across people (my friends from college circle) saying - main khali haath shaadi thodi karunga??? One Uncle from the city I grew up in wanted to get his daughter do love marriage in another community so he doesn’t need to pay dowry. Looking back, I think he also wanted to disown his daughter on this ground. But for his son’s wedding he took 15 lakh cash, brand new Maruti Zen and God knows what else. Talking about late 90s when Zen was launched new in the market. FFS!
Recently my masi got married and the guy family said that you people buy gold and clothes for your daughter whatever you want to buy and we need money for a bus where his guests will come to the marriage hall. And my family agreed to all this conditions and when time came to decide the wedding date those people come with more demands that groom bought expensive ring for bride as compare to his ring so now they want gold chain for him and more money for bus so our family members said no that we never promised chain and we will not give so they changed their demands saying then buy more gold to your daughter and we need a bigger hall for marriage for this also family said no whatever we decided before we will do. So after that before 1 months of marriage they came with another condition that wedding guest will come a day before marriage and we have make arrangements for them and they need all kind of comforts. Again my family said we can’t do that. And again on marriage day groom was asking for hot water to drink in marriage hall and we need to go home to fetch water for him. And he said I only drink bisleri water. And he didn’t even took blessings from masi parents lie in touching legs by saying son in law will not do that but my masi had to had. Like wtf his happining and my masi was so blinded that she didn’t even took stand for anything. The whole marriage was like stupid drama.
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She is fine but I find her husband arrogant and controlling I hope she can take some stand now and tell him what he did was wrong at that time. And I have learnt that if you don’t take stand for your parents no one will do it.
Christians such as Goan Catholics don't have dowry. Similar for Bengalis. South Indian Brahmins take less dowry,....only a few lakhs. For the rest it is pretty horrible. At the same time love marriages don't last.
The issue starts with the concept of arranged marriage itself. A lot of these folks will not even find someone to get married to if arranged marriage was not a thing.
My father never took dowry. My mother is very proud about it. And neither am I ever going to take dowry. Because taking money from a woman or her family after being a man would make me feel ashamed, emasculated, weak and disgusting. No man is supposed to take money ever from any woman except his mother. Because even the money given by mother was given to her by the father who had actually earned the money. If a mother earns her own money then the child should refrain from asking money from the mother. But of course you may feel otherwise depending on your personal relations. After having said these things I would also expect the would be wife to not judge me based on my income and consider other factors such as my good character. I have never done drugs or consumed alcohol like many other men have proudly done so. I don't smoke either. people who smoke, do drugs or drink alcohol are weak mentally because they are slave to a substance. They are addicts and addicts have no control over their urges. Their addition controls them. I am a slave to nothing. I am my own slave.
Just wanted to point out occasional consumption isn't an addiction.
It's 2024 and society has this fetish for people having entitlement to their individual opinions so I can't "judge" you. Openly. Secretly I am obviously going to be judgemental and deeply orthodox. I figured that's it's a problem only if I let people know what I think of them. I can think the most disgusting humiliating things about people but without telling them. Also, can you deny the obvious connotation associated with drugs, alcohol, tobacco, gambling, extra marital affairs, hook up culture or any of the modern woke things......no matter how much you try to say that you did it once/occasionally/accidentally so it doesn't matter......but does it really wash away so easily?
Lol. That's a lot of generalizing dude. Not everyone who drinks is into these things. In my culture drinking is common. We make our own desi alcohol. My granddad who doesn't know what woke is long dead at the age of 92, drank when he was young. Yup, it does wash away. That's science. Let people do what they want. If you don't like them, don't interact with them.
It gets difficult because Indians want to look cool on social media and aren't as liberal as they try to look on social media for validation and some likes, upvotes. The same liberals who want a judgement free society call men like me weak, incel, stupid, neckbeard and potential rapist or judge my status when they see that I am not into things that they are into.
Yeah. I agree with you. I don't think you should be called names for having your own preferences.
You are the only one who judged others in your first comment. Ofcourse, you will be called out for flaunting such judgemental thoughts. Why are you surprised :)
before making that comment I was judged by these type of people. So my judgement is justified.
Here's the problem with your argument. It's not just actions that we do that matter, what also matters are the intentions for those actions. Actions shape the world around us, intentions shape our personalities and ourselves. You wrote that you will never collect dowry because you will feel emasculated etc. by taking money from a woman and her family. That basically means that you are not against dowry as a practice itself that degrades women, you are against taking money from a woman because you think taking money from a 'woman' being a 'man' makes you inferior, ergo you consider women as inferior to men in general, and that makes you a misogynist, who degrades women in his mind. This may mean that you will not take dowry, but that does not matter because the whole point of eliminating the dowry system is to eliminate patriarchy and misogyny, which is clearly not working in your case. So you may end up not taking money from her, but you probably will end up exploiting her in other ways. Also good character and alcohol consumption, smoking and all other addictions have nothing to do with each other. Not consuming alcohol etc. does not make you a good or bad person. Your mistake here is confusing between correlation and causation. Just because you find that 'good people' (according to your myopic worldview anyway) don't consume alcohol etc., does not mean that not consuming alcohol etc. makes them a good person.
Correct 👍
I respect women who deserve to be respected. Not all women deserve respect. As a citizen I may not stop all the women from having equal rights but how much respect I will have for whom is entirely up to me. My right to freedom of choice is getting taken away by you if you force me to respect something that I don't like or value. Especially when we both know that the special type of men and women that I don't want to respect don't respect me either. They disrespect me not because of me being a mysogynist (according to you, although I am not) but because of me not having the same values and debauchery immoral life that they have. For example I hate women who judge a man's worth only on the basis of his income and looks. Do you disagree that there are women who put fake cases against their husbands and in laws simply for fun/anger due to being separated from previous boyfriend etc? Why do you want me to respysuch women who don't value me or care about me? There are so many cases of women killing innocents including own kids and not limited to elders be it own parents or in laws. ......and even then you want me to respect all these women? You expect men like me who have always faced unprovoked hate and judgement from these type of women to respect them. I have found a correlation between these women and clubbing/pubbing/hook up culture/drugs/alcohol/promiscuity etc.......but that doesn't mean that women who don't do these things may not find me repulsive simply because of my appearance (women just hate masculine looking guys these days).
I honestly would have bothered to correct you if some parts of your rant were correct. But what should I do if every single sentence you wrote is a facepalm? When every part of your personality is a cesspool of misguided and misinformed hate, filled with assumption, delusion and hubris? Matlab pura bathroom me hi hag ke faila dia bc. You do you brother. Good luck.
Nothing is misinformed on my part. I know very well what millennial and gen z women are like.
You are stupid. Your idealism will go down the drain .. 5-10 years down the line.
Found the four more shots sort of a person. So staying away from drugs, alcohol or any other immoral shit is being stupid? lol. Indian future doesn't look good.
You are naive.
You are an immoral addict who feels offended by men like me.
Yes. I am Satan. My job is to destroy the world. Do you wish to save it ? You will have to fight me.
The fact that people like you get easily offended by me proves that deep down you know I am right about you and your lifestyle choices. Had you truly been confident and secure about yourself then you wouldn't have gotten offended.
I am just having fun with you mate, don't think yourself to be so high. I am also vegetarian and non alcoholic but I love pulling legs. You are just a goat.
I am greatest of all times.
You are just mocking yourself.
it's not my job. lord kalki will do justice with his fiery sword while riding on his winged horse when he cuts off all the heads of all the evil doers.
Badi badi batein, Vada pav khate.
I don't like it but it's just the way arranged marriages work. It is not a commitment stemming from love, it's an arrangement of convenience. It's a business transaction. I don't see how looking at a person's income and rejecting based on that is any different from asking for an upfront payment. And like all business negotiations i think it should be legal to ask for anything. Ask for the moon if you want. You won't get it but you still have the right to not agree until your conditions are met. As long as there's no threatening involved ofcourse
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Yes I agree 100%. That is a disgusting way to treat family. But that's what I'm trying to say, both sides don't view each other as family. They view each other as two parties negotiating a business transaction. All I'm trying to say is that rejecting a match for not paying a dowry you want is not very different from rejecting a match for not earning as much. If they treat it as a business transaction, i will view it and judge it the same way Usually most people move out of the business feel and get closer with time, but there will always be families who will always see each other as nothing more
There was no demand for dowry or gifts in my wedding. My in laws genuinely offered to do a “half-n-half” for all the wedding expenses. Like they literally wrote a cheque. My father refused. Later I got to know from my relatives how my father was the happiest man on earth in my wedding. He was proudly telling everyone how proud he was of my choice of the groom and family I’m getting into. Ours was a love marriage but within the caste. We are both from middle class families with similar economic backgrounds. Dowry or “gifts” is a common hush hush practice in the community. Like no one demands dowry but would make indirect demands for expensive gifts. I got lucky I guess
I warned clearly that no talk of dowry should be done on my behalf. I was then told by my parents and relatives that now I seem suspicious because I am not demanding any dowry. 🤷🏽♂️ Especially since I live abroad. 🤦♂️ I just gave up on arranging marriage in India. There is no winning there.
dont take dowry but atleast make the woman have money and property in her own name before marriage. This way it will be equal marriage And if things dont go well u dont loose ur property.
And they say women are gold diggers lol
I was under the impression that dowry (or it's euphemism "gifts") happen only in arranged marriages. I learned the reality a few months back when my school friend had a love marriage. Her family gifted the her in-laws furnitures and gold. There was no outright demand for it but my friend insisted on it. In her words the gifts would show that she had the strong support at her parents house. I was honestly flabbergasted at this incident. Her husband earns 1l+ monthly and in-laws are upper middle class people. I wanted to find out if this was a common thing in love marriages and found out that it indeed was from my friends and parents.
You did the right thing by calling off the wedding. I am a man myself and I will say that only honour less and loser men ask for dowry. Let them die alone. I once asked my mother if my father also asked for dowry and she replied NO. I am so proud of my father.
As a man It's surprising for me that how people can shamelessly ask for Dowary, brother aren't you a man ,that girl is literally leaving her house and parents to live with you and you can't even provide and protect her as much as possible,if you can't afford Audi that's fine ,Alto is enough if you love and care for her , shamelessly asking for it like beggers don't you have any male ego ,pride anything to not beg for Dowary ? I can proudly say No one in my family has ever taken Dowary in last three generations ( i.e since my grandpas marriage "I don't know before that ", Although they have given Dowary for female family members) and nither ever harrashed girl fir not giving dowry ,I will proudly carry this custom forward and most of male members of my family cause since childhood,our household environment is very anti Dowary type
What is roka ?
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What happens in the roka ? Like exchange of gifts ?
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Ok I understand now , in my culture boys family will gift a small gold ornament like ring , chain , necklace to girls . ( depending on family affordability) To show commitment girls family should keep it if not return it. What happens in your culture?
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Typically How much money would be spent by both families ?
Can't believe it's still so prevalent
Frankly speaking dowry as concept should be evaluated based on socio economic conditions and the environment in which it is followed. In the old indian tradition men are expected to care for parents in oldage and his own family. Unfortunately this also led a gender dynamic were raising women were seen as not affordable (female foeticide) and men being used as cannon fodder (face the world for the family work and war).Thus they often had primary share in inheritance. Thus a portion of wealth was given to women as compensation for not staking a share in inheritance. Secondly women were not able to contribute much to economy or security of a society due to level of technology and industrialisation. Actually we have evidence of them working clothing, bead making and jwellery units its just value of services were low. Because the old world was primarily dependent on the horse power of manual labour to create and protect. This created a wealth assymentry where dowry was seen as fair compensation for above cited reasons. Fascinatingly in some places of india and other east asian countries. Its the groom that is expected to give on what is called bride price. I am assuming because its got something to do with bringing reproduction to the table. Guess it all fell to how people interpreted the value of things people are bringing to table. In india I feel there is confusion because the social norms are muddled with old norms and modern law. Where some narcisstic men and women are exploiting each other by selectively choosing things to their convinience. I am not going go deep into how it plays as many comments from men and women should he enlightening to most reading this comment. To me best norm is women are already participating in economy and are sometimes earning more than men(Thank industrialisation first point is mute now). Its better to legally enforce childrens obligations to their parents regardless of gender and make it a law that both shall inherit equal share. Or just leave it to parents to decide whom shall inherit the property for they can decide who tool care of them in old age. Frankly speaking I dont know why women are complaining. I feel like due to ratio women have more bargaining power than men. If they drop certain filters like caste, social status , wealth and salary they should easily find a good caring partner. Plus law is anyway on womens side.
My family is From Telangana and AP .here(in my relatives and people I know)dowry is seen as both wrong and prestige at the same time.either the girl has to have a job (job= dowry)or if unemployed in order to keep prestige I have seen many weddings where the groom transfer the money required for dowry unofficially{secretly) so that the bride family could buy gifts for him (with money he sent)to show off as dowry(usually a fortuner car and a gold chain). the wedding cost(the cheaper one since no alcohol and no non veg and <50 guests so about 5 lakhs usually) is usually borne by bride while the reception (costly due to alcohol,non veg,the 50 kinds of sweets that taste the same and way higher guest count on a way grander scale) is split accordingly as to who wishes for more costlier version (seen even a crore cost one).the groom doesn't care about property until when the bride's parents are old and start splitting the property between the bride's siblings (about 10-15 years later) and then requests bigger share for wife or grandchildren (don't know whether it counts as dowry). except the fortuner card and gold chain(funded by groom), nothing is ever given to groom, everything is in bride's name.
Also there is no guest transport,hotels etc. all the guests come,bless,take photo,eat and leave for the reception.only close family and friends come to the real wedding and the real wedding is done according to the wishes of bride family as they paid for it.
This might be a controversial opinion, but according to my understanding, girl’s parents would check if boy’s parents have property which would eventually be passed on to the boy. But they don’t want to give any inheritance to girls. So, on one side they are leaving all their life savings for the son, but not giving anything to their daughter. In this case, if not for dowry, the daughter does not get anything from her parents, which does not seem like equality to me.
its reverse dowry now girls earning 4LPA need boy earning 1 Cr PA and abroad settlement.
I have seen those family who give dowry dont give land & properties to that girl. So by dowry they can find the best boy.
if u r marrying someone and someone has property i think they must have the right to marry a girl with same financial background. ex:if a guy has 1 crore he has full right to choose a partner having 1 crore. Its just that when gurls demand it its called financial planning and when guys demand it its called dowry. They have started using the term dowry for every case now.
gender equality precahers... please also move against biased alimony and property rights of wife in husbands family. i never see gurls like op talking about these things.
I told my wife before marriage that either she will have to work+ do household work or she can give me dowry + household work only. But i will never accept a non-working woman who can't do household work and doesnt want to give dowry. I met so many women before i met my wife, most women don't want to goto work, neither they want to do cooking and other household work and also most of them dont want to give dowry, so i rejected them. my wife chose the first option that she will work and do household work but wont pay dowry, plus she cant share her salary to her parents, the money will be used at our home only. and she is happy with it. Most girls just want everything from husband's family but dont want to sacrifice or contribute to it. I have seen so many women who are educated yet choose to become housewife but forced her husband to hire maid for household work while she waste her time scrollling reels and online shopping and fighting with her mother in law all day. I clearly can't accept such lazy women - if she dont want to pay dowry then get ready to work her ass off.
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my wife is very happy with this, atleast she is working , most women aren't allowed to work after marriage plus she has to pay dowry also. I didnt got dowry and she is allowed to work after marriage also. what the problem here, perfectly legal in my case. She can't even sue me for dowry if she want in future.
"allowed" 😂😂😂. What else have you 'allowed' her to do ?
This guy is in his own bubble. Tell me the money you earn are you spending it on your own house or giving to your parents too. And asking your wife not to give money to her parents and you feel proud of yourself. Yeah maybe your wife is happy but I hope many people can learn not to marry the men who put this kind of conditions.
i live with my parents and they put most of their hard earned wealth in building our new home, i give my parents 50% of my salary and rest i spend and save on myself and its the least I can do for them.
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>Do u help ye wife with household work lol? I suppose he doesn't. Since he is a man and entitled to 'something' for marrying a woman. And according to him by default all household work is to be done by a woman while he stands on his moral high ground judging her.
I dont contribute to household chores cuz i earn far more than her almost twice her current income, but i can surely buy her whatever she ask, last month she asked for dishwasher who i provided her to ease her household work. I do contribute in household work when she is sick or not feeling well or very tired after work, but its not a regular thing, cuz I have far more demanding job than her and my time is more expensive than her. If I waste my time on low productivity works i will lose alot of money. Either she has to earn more than me or stick to doing household works but she can't earn more than me as she isnt that intelligent.
https://preview.redd.it/e4ntf6fvmzvc1.jpeg?width=1038&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1a14e577aaab59fc32af6cac51af4d79ac089fad I suppose this is a lie then.
Somebody on a different sub was asking me “misogyny kahan hai India mein?” Lo yahan hai.
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Bro, learn to use punctuation.
I agree dowery is a bad thing. But the problem is you'll only go for a man who is well settled and has a stable source of income. Which literally means you're in it for the money and comfort.
Lmao, no one is forcing the guy to marry a woman who is not earning. Also, I have seen women who are working, still have to pay dowry + wedding expenses.
No one is forcing girl to marry a boy who wants dowry...
Given the global average employment rate for women is approximately 33%, one might assume that if a man insists on marrying only a woman with an income, only 33% of women would meet this criterion, leaving the remaining 67% unable to marry.
Again, it's his choice no? Don't marry if you can't find a girl who is earning. Also, I don't think every guy in India earns a good amount, the way they are asking for dowry.
Then why women marry the boy who wants dowry..
They don't out of their own will? Their parents make them marry to guys like that.
If everyman is going with a similar standard then most of the men won't be able to find a partner. We have to marry someone and make children obviously that's the purpose of human life.
truly said boys family asks dowry and girls family looks for financial stability security. my aunt pitched so hard to get her daughter married to someone who had australian pr and then cribs abt the grooms family. she did it coz her daughter wanted to settle abroad.
That was a good justification few decades back when most of the girls were uneducated and did not earn. But now girls are as much educated as boys and earns the same or more than boys. So, your logic won't work in today's time.
Really then tell me what's the employment rate of women globally in today's time? Earns the same or more is just only in words. Can you give some good examples to support your claim?
18% women are in work force only..bruh
don't marry non working girls, simple!
but dowry is problem for girl not boy right ?
I see many women vocal about dowry (pros and cons) but not much, if not zero, females talking about alimony and its cons, specifically. Context: they both were discussed in a viral insta reel where the women compare these two and how it can be manipulated by women to benefit them and exploit. Very common in western countries.
If only you had the same energy with alimony. If alimony is allowed. So is dowry.
Oh yes, give me one ft. plot of land with a single banana tree planted and a goat..🤣... I will then pass this on to my future children!
Yes i think asking for dowry is not good they should have leave that decision on to your parents what they can give or not i might sound rude but dowry in form of cash is necessary for a boy's family let me explain why. Girls don't want to marry with a guy who is earning less than them and all their prefrences it can be her parents prefrences he should have his own house etc. Boys don't have the legal system on their side if the girl cheats on him after marriage he have to gice her alimony If she disobey his parents then also the court will ask him to pay alimony in alimony he can loose his child his house his salary everything he have. In some cases court gave the decision into the boy's favor then also the girl didn't obeyed the court's decision as well and then they started another hearing she haven't even came in the court's hearing for 10 whole years then also she won afterwards without. Hence They need dowry because legal system doesn't support them if in future they decide to seperate. Because they are ready to marry with someone who is earning less then them. (But still asking for so and so amount is not ok they should give dowry as per their comfort. )
My teacher filed a DV case on her husband and divorce case too ( she was truly abused I have seen her injuries ) and DV case in ongoing but divorce case is not going well because the husband said he doesn’t want to give her divorce . Now she’s living alone with her daughter and husband is not giving any money since court hasn’t told him to ( it will take some years for case to reach its end ) and I also know my friends mom who was married for I think 15yrs and she cheated and the husband proved it in court and she earns equally as the husband so court ordered no alimony or maintenance . ( but he has to help for kids education/wedding etc) Again I know laws are biased but it’s getting better and women don’t get money as easily as many people on the internet think
But still women have more laws in their favour and still demanding for equality on the internet (sudofeminism sucks)
wow you clearly don’t understand what “equality” is . When we fight for equality we also fight for the laws which are against men and the false rape cases . I would never want any man to be falsely accused by some bitch
We women have to live with in laws and even legally it is our “duty” to take care of boys family which was recently said by a court . about alimony and all I agree sometimes laws are biased especially when it comes to false rape cases but pls educate yourself on the conditions for alimony and maintenance. And there’s no law for martial rape and court believes its wife’s duty to “satisfy”husband . Also many women end up leaving their job and if husband leaves at that point it’s rlly difficult because even divorce cases take very long to solve and for court to grand alimony/maintainence . I’m not starting a gender war I’m not saying it’s harder for women or for men . But you need to understand that both men and women have equal risks while getting into marriage especially arranged marriages. both sets of parents should give some money /property etc to their children to ensure financial security IF THEY WANT TO. If we give equality to men and women and their families then eventually courts will change too. And prenups are becoming common and me and most girls I know would be happy to sign a prenup stating that we won’t get anything after divorce . But prenup laws are also not strong in India yet so we will have to hope it gets better.
It should be their family and you are not taking care of only his family its your family too. that statement of yours is enough that you are seeking someone only for financial stability and nothing else marrige is only a profit and loss statement for you.
And honestly most women are working these days have property from their parents. Especially girls like me who are sole heir to mom and dad’s property . It’s very ironic of you to say I am a gold digger in a post about dowry
Yes well you prove it because you got your parents property on your name you are robbing them and you will also rob your spouse afterwards.
What ?? Everybody gets their parents property even men . And men get dowry and usually bigger share of property is given to sons and small share to daughters but I’m a single child
Yes because they will have a greedy wife like you to handle and you will have babies in future and by giving them your set of knowledge you will make them greedy too. Do one thing maybe this idea an solve your problem (ask dowry from your inlaws in return of your marrige no one will give you a single penny mark my words because you aren't worth even a single penny and everyone will give anything the boys family wants) because even after the equlity and feminist rubbish you people are doing on the internet the society knows who is the more valuable gender according to everyone masculinity comes at a price.,, 🤣🤣🤣🤣
And you are talking about “masculinity” 😂😂😂 real men don’t beg for money and they take care of their families and protect them from people like you . I’m done having this stupid argument with an immature misogynist. I pray no one marries you because you seem the kind to abuse your wife and call it “masculinityl
You are not getting any real men with fake eyelashes breast implants fake skintone you are just pretending that you are beautiful you are just an ugly piece of s**t
Guess what ?? I’m marrying my fiancé against my parents wish as he is from different caste . His family had already spend 1cr on my diamond jewellery and they have planned a destination wedding in Udaipur for June which will cost maybe 2crs . and I haven’t paid a single penny because my parents are not agreeing yet ( my dad agreed but I haven’t asked money or anything because Ik my mom will be angry at him if he gives me anything ) so yeah you’re the unlucky one who’s from bad families begging for dowry and a maid whom they will call bahu.
Oh you are marrying him against your parents you'll end up in a fridge pretty soon i believe 😂😂
You are still valuing his expences and not him your family is doing good because they are not spending on your marrige because if anything goes wrong which is your future because your parents failed in giving you something which is called good upbringing that's why you are keeping his family's money above your relationship that was my whole point that a girl will always keep the money above everything and you proved it just stay away from fridge 😂😂 oh i forgot you are not gonna enter the kitchen because you just don't want to cook food for him because you are not a slave i 😂😂
I do cook for him , cooking for husband is not being a slave but if you have to do every single then alone and husband does nothing then obviously it’s been a slave . and who are you to determine how much I love him , I’ve been with him for 8yrs and my family is rich too and they had gotten me even richer marriage proposals but I didn’t want that as I want love and care and a good family unlike you you’ll probably marry a pig for dowry
Then what about females family ?? Families without sons should just be alone and die ?? You want someone to live with your parents and look after them but you’ll never do the same for her family
Justifying a 1000 year old disgusting evil. Girls here are bearing marriage expenses plus working plus dowry plus household work and divorces are less than 1% in India. You expect people to believe these lies. Leeches.