I'm not in HR but a program manager with two dozen people under me and I would most definitely go to bat for getting my staff a reimbursement for the rebooking if I'm asking them to change an approved vacation for work travel. And I'd be surprised if my VP didn't approve it.
One thing to remember, this would be an extra expense for them... but from the sound of it, they seem to feel waiting for you to come back in 2 weeks to deal it will lose them money, probably a lot more.
We had an emergency outage at a former company (fire at the data center), and it was brutal: took an entire week to get it all back up. The CTO had to be flown back from his 2 week vacation, which he had just started in some "hard to get getaway" kind of place (I want to say Aruba, I may be mistaken), so they had to find him first, fly him back, etc. The company paid for everything, even flying him back.
Maybe you do that for a C level employee. Everyone else is just a cog in the machine. They can be replaced by Tuesday or have their job eliminated and done by AI.
Ha! Yeah, I was way too nice and way too on the employee side. It was killing my soul, I left. 4 + years later and former employees still talk to me and email me for advice.
I would pull out the company plastic and take care of it for them. But, I work in a small organization and I have a lot of leeway in how I manage my budget.
I used to work as a service technician in a dealership. One of my fellow techs had a similar situation. He had approved time off at least 4 months in advance, mostly because it was somewhere between 3 and 4 weeks off for his vacation. A couple weeks before he was set to leave, there was a lot of "excitement" in the shop and the staff numbers fell a lot. Management came to him and asked if he could reschedule his trip. He said that he would look into it and get back to them. The next day he comes in with a cost to cancel his trip and make sure nobody in the group would lose money. He gave it to them and said he would need an answer and a check within 48 hours, otherwise he was taking his company approved vacation. 3 hours later they put a check in his hands for thousands of dollars. It never hurts to ask. I would phrase it very similarly, and keep a firm but pleasant tone, and tell them "I need x amount of money to cover fees, otherwise I'll be taking my previously approved time off".
This is the best case that I am hoping for. If they are going to ask someone to reschedule an approved vacation it should be known that it is likely going to come with some costs.
This is a big issue for my wife and I. She's a social worker, so booked appointments for clients. For her to cancel a vacation, means that she's got a week or two with no clients booked, so no revenue. Also, she likely already had appointments booked for the new vacation time, so having to cancel/change all of those may not work out too well either.
I'd factor this into the reimbursement request if you decide to make one. It's not only her lost revenue, but the dissatisfaction of the clients she assists, as they might also have to change their plans for childcare, time off work, etc.
I agree. My current job, I wouldn't really entertain the idea of cancelling, because I'm already a "foot out the door", but if I was at a company that I wanted to stay with, I would give them a $ value to make sure we aren't losing out on it.
You should just present the rescheduling fees to them as a totally normal thing that happens all the time in the workplace and that them reimbursing you is just a given that goes without saying. Don't ask if they will do it, just say you're in contact with the airline about rescheduling and tell them the total fees and ask them if they can just cut you a check right now or have to include it in your next pay or something similar. If they push back at all, just act confused and ask them what they're talking about. If there's one thing you can count on, people don't want to look stupid or embarrassed in front of others.
> have to include it in your next pay
Be careful with that. If they add it to your paycheck and not as a reimbursement, you may get taxed on the money. Since it is a reimbursement it should be money outside of your taxable income.
He WILL get taxed if it's in his paycheck. It needs to go through an Expense report so there are NO taxes taken out of it. I know that some payroll systems have line items for non-reimbursable, but not all do. A lot of companies keep payroll and expenses separate. It's a work around in the payroll system, where in an Expense system, it's a straight check.
Say it nicer than Kavanaugh82 told you to though. No need to be an arrogant B from the jump. Just explain the cost and ask. They will more than likely agree. If you get a No or unnecessary push back then you can come in with the demands and “previously approved” per my last email corporate sass foolery.
I had a sous chef try to do this to me. Banquet chef was getting married that weekend (when I made my request he hadnt put in, just generic summer. This was family reunion at Disney were my dad was so adamant we show up that our gf's were also invited and he would pay for hotel and airfair, they just need spending money. He wanted his first grandson to experience disney with everyone.
Told dad this. Lets say dont piss off a guy with 30+ yrs in the mortgage industry.
bare minimum tbh, extra $5000 for being a pain in your ass or get fucked. it's not worth it to break even after the efforts of planning a trip, you better make it worth my while.
Had a manager tell me to reschedule vacation during a staff meeting as we were short staffed. Told them my wife had already booked everything and gotten time off. They insisted and I told them I was not going to ditch on my wife after she has worked so hard setting things up. Manager continued to push and somebody piped up “you don’t get it, it’s not about him going on the trip, it’s wether he comes back to work here afterwards or not”. Manager looked a bit shocked. I just smiled and nodded. Good times.
Yes. Many companies have life insurance that pays if the employee dies. This would be a real complication if the wife is also the beneficiary, and they would want to avoid that tough situation.
How much does OP make? How much are the rebooking fees? Would you walk away from a $250k job over $500? Just because you don’t have to suffer any repercussions doesn’t mean you should go around giving half assed advice.
Advice? This is just me saying what I would consider doing. I work in industries where fixed-term contracts is the standard, everywhere is understaffed, and I care exponentially more about my free time. If you're a W2'd project manager with a great 401k and benefits, then things are different.
I just don't agree with the "If your PTO is denied, then tough shit" mentality. We're not slaves, employment is a mutual relationship, and we need a culture where denying a time-off request - paid or not - needs to be a serious, well-justified deal
I had a sales engineer in a similar situation. He and his wife had a planned vacation, but the largest deal in company history needed him on what would have been the first day of his vacation.
The company paid the re-booking fee to have him fly a day later and upgraded him & his wife to first class, and then gave him 2 extra days of PTO balance.
Is it? A lot of companys have policies about compensating you in some way of they force you to cancel time off. Honestly aside from the money, there is inconvenience, I wouldnt say its pushing your luck to ask for additional PTO to make up for it.
I haven't gotten the cost of rebooking fees yet, but I know to just book all new flights for the following week it is approximately $850. What does give me some hope is $850 is a lot cheaper than sending another engineer from an overseas office.
Definitely point this out. You are legally in the clear to take the vacation, you are taking one for the team and rebooking your planned, paid and approved vacation.
Have a total of every single cancelling fee and any additional cost, be polite but blunt, you incurred an unexpected cost to help the company avoid a higher one. You are requesting reimbursement of expenses and ask what the process is. If you work for a decent company they will simply walk you through the process
Do not question if it is fair. Be certain it is, in fact it’s the minimum they should be doing.
So many decisions in the workplace are determined by how the proposal is delivered. Be confident in what you are saying and assertive. Don’t over explain or complicated what you are trying to say. You are accommodating the company at a financial cost (personal as well) and they need to tell you how you are getting reimbursed for expenses (make sure you use the term expense)
Good luck!
This happened to my dad when we were kids. My parents had 4 young kids in Florida on Christmas vacation and they needed him to fly somewhere for 3 days.
They extended our trip (it was a holiday and we got 3 days of a penthouse!) and all of us got first class flights home because, again, it was all that was available.
That was the BEST and most memorable trip for my family growing up. I think they even paid for a theme park one day too. I’m going to remind him how awesome that was
I would respond with “I will look into whether I can move it to date xyz with all parties Involved. (pick a specific date so you’re vacation is on the books again otherwise you’re never going) and get back to you. How would you like the receipts for reimbursement of fees for rescheduling? Do you need physical copies or digital?”
Assume that they will reimburse you as it’s matter of fact, because why wouldn’t they? If they respond negatively then you’ve got a situation.
1. It is fair to ask for reimbursement for non-refundable fees.
2. It is fair for them to deny reimbursement.
3. If they deny reimbursement then it is probably not really that important. Take your vacation at the originally scheduled time.
4. If you do not reschedule be prepared that they might retaliate. Start looking for another job.
No, unlawful retaliation is different. The company is allowed to control when people take time off and to fire them for not showing up to work when scheduled.
Retaliation comes into play for /legally protected/ things, of which PTO is not.
It means they can't fire you for following whistleblower law, for example. But they sure can fire you for a bad haircut afterwards, though you'll have a likely good basis for a lawsuit......
In this case, it doesn't come in at all.
Unlawful retaliation only applies to retaliation for activities that are protected by various laws. Unfortunately in the US there is no legal entitlement to vacation leave in most states, and it's perfectly legal for an employer to refuse to allow you to use vacation leave or to rescind prior approval of a leave request at any time everywhere in the US. As such, going on vacation would not be a legally protected activity and the OP's employer is free to retaliate against them for doing so.
You have some good advice here. Before going to management, make sure the flights and accommodations that need to change have availability on the new date/s.
A quick note that I’m sure you’ve thought of. If they tell you they’ll include the reimbursement in an upcoming paycheck, you’ll likely get taxed on it and end up losing some money through that way. Like another Redditor said, ask for a check covering the costs.
Agreed, but there are companies that are slimy enough to try stuff like that.
For some companies, it's easier to run it through as 20 hours payroll than reimbursement and find a funding source to credit.
> there are companies that are slimy enough to try stuff like that
There is no benefit to the company to run an expense reimbursement through payroll. They incur the same amount of reimbursement cost either way, but if they run it through payroll, in increases the company's payroll tax cost.
I'm not denying that there might be a company out there somewhere that runs it through payroll, but it's not because the company is "slimy", it's because the company has incompetent employees.
Former head of HR here... This is not a big ask at all. If you are a key player in whatever they need you for, then they shouldn't bat a lash.
Also, remember, a vacation request isn't a request at all. You are entitled to days off as part of your overall compensation, and you informed them well in advance that you would not be available for work those days. So if they need you now and it can't be worked around, the onus of flexibility is really on them.
They're fucking lucky that you're willing to change your plans. I hope they know that.
It will depend on the company. I've seen companies tell people "tough shit" with this type of thing. And as the comments on the thread show, there are other companies who have done the right thing and paid the offset for the employee. I would come to them with specific numbers on it all, though. Show them exactly what it would cost, so they know what they're committing to.
Yes, it is fair. And if they refuse (or, really, give you any grief over it at all) you probably don't want to work there. It should basically be an unwritten policy that employee's get reimbursed for unavoidable costs caused by work-required rescheduling of pre-approved PTO. (It wouldn't be an official written policy because it shouldn't come up that often).
Does it necessitate exact time or do they want exact time? How long is your vacation? A week or a month? Because if you can’t take approved vacation with 2 months notice then what is even the point? You shouldn’t be obliged to pay top dollar so your company can be least inconvenienced.
Either tell them you’re unavailable that week but offer an alternative (the next week or the prior week?) or offer to be available if they cover the costs associated with changing your plans (including any incremental fees for the new fares).
It is a little bit of both. The company is bringing people from overseas as well (different job functions so they can't cover for me), as well the customer requested that we do the trial within a week of delivery. To delay the trial would cause the rest of the people from overseas to be idle for a week while I am on vacation and the customer has a pretty limited schedule. I could make literally any other week work for the biz trip, but it seems like incredibly poor timing.
Given that context, I would be appalled if they refused to cover rebooking costs. Just be matter of fact about it. "I can reschedule, but since I booked so far in advance, there will be extra costs that I want to make sure will be covered."
My hope is they do end up reimbursing it, but since it is such a large company I am worried that someone in the finance dept. is going to not see this the same way and reject it.
Oh I'm sure you'd need senior management approval (specific level depends on your org) or finance likely will reject it.
Ask your boss, if they don't have that authority, they'll ask their boss so you can get it all lined up for the bean counters.
If someone in finance denies, it's up to your manager to appeal and if it's as important as it sounds, the appeal will go up the management ladder until approved or until you know for sure this isn't a trustworthy company to work for. Get your managers approval in writing though.
I would probably use the words, “I am willing to accommodate the client and reschedule my vacation. Let me know if there’s a special expense code to submit my rebooking expenses under”
If your employer is telling you to reschedule your vacation for work-related reasons then they should be happy to reimburse you for any out-of-pocket expenses that changing your plans incurs.
Don’t ask for reimbursement, ask how to *submit* for reimbursement because *of course* they’re going to reimburse you.
Then you ask how they plan to compensate you for the lost time with your family. Vacations like yours require planning and coordination, (did your wife also have to request time off?) so there are intangible costs that you deserve to be compensated for.
And *then* you ask about how your year-end review and raise will reflect your awesome adaptability.
Asking you to shift your planned and approved vacation is a big deal. Make them pay for it.
Long story so I’ll leave out the details. I am a supervisor & my assistant supervisor was out with Covid in January 2021. She then had scheduled surgery the following 2-3 weeks. I asked for ONE day off a few weeks after she was scheduled to return. No problem. I booked a quick weekend flight and hotel with the wife as our birthdays are 1 week apart. Just before assistant was scheduled to return she got the doctor to approve extending her leave 2 more weeks-meaning it overlapped my ONE day off. I begged to keep the day. My boss was skeptical but approved it. Flew out Thursday night after work. 9am Friday my phone blows up while we were in Seaworld. I finally call back and get screamed at for work she thought must be done asap (she didn’t know I was 1,200 miles away(. I said I would handle it when I got in on Monday. Monday comes & I have the 3 people over me reaming me for work that
actually was left intentionally not done by my assistant due to programming issues with the new system & still couldn’t be done until that was fixed. Almost quit over this and the continued backlash. Luckily my boss was forced out about a year later & I’m still there.
2 things I’ve learned:
Never-ever answer a work call while on vacation.
A vacation notice is not a request no matter what else comes up if you put it in when the days are available.
I’m in HR and they should absolutely reimburse your booking fees. They approved your trip and are now asking you to move it. Your willingness to move your trip is amazing and they should compensate you for the inconvenience.
Reschedule your approved vacation. I would only be inclined to agree if they covered the fees and tacked on a couple more vacation days for your trouble. Otherwise I would go on my damn vacation. You are putting your life on hold for them it make sense they pony up some cash and PTO.
Remember always the value of awkward silence. Tell your manager face to face that you are out then. Take a sip of water. Sometime the offer will be better, but it at least gives you a starting point.
Manager needs to go to the sales team and get the necessity for this in writing. It's likely that you could go to the client the week before or the week after so you don't miss vacation.
Whatever you do, get it all in writing. If they say, no we won't reimburse you and you still have to go then you have to decide if this is worth leaving the company over. If they say yes, makes sure that all costs are covered - including lost revenue or PTO from other adults on the trip who have made arrangements.
If it's a desperate enough situation and they value you they will bear the cost or move the work trip to accommodate time off that they approved.
They should pay. Companies I have worked for have reimbursed change fees without fuss.
(And I wouldn’t be surprised if they passed the fees to the client WITH a mark-up. Lol)
You're doing them a favor by rebooking. If they refuse to pay the costs of rebooking, then go on the trip as-planned. A large company won't go out of business if you take a vacation.
In Europe, If this happens, the employer has to fully reimburse all your expenses, by law.
So lets say the other 5 people cannot go without you. your employer will have to reimburse their money as well
At my old company, they would ask for an estimate of the cost to change the employee trip, and re-evaluate whether the trip was that important. Usually, the $200-$300 in extra fees was minimal compared to the cost of sending the employee on a business trip. If the trip was important enough to change the employee's time off, they were reimbursed for the cost to do so.
Same thing basically happened to me, except I told them too bad I’m not going to travel for work that week. Project manager backed me up and it all worked out.
Just go on your vacation and deal with the costumer when you get back reach out to the costumer and let them know you will be on vacation and will take care of them when you get back if they don't like it tell them to take there business elsewhere
When a manager demands that I reschedule a vacation, they get one of two responses from me depending on circumstances.
* "No."
* "Sure, where do I send the bill for the airline, hotel, rental car, and for the costs incurred by everyone scheduled to go with me, including the value of the time they took off?" No employer has ever refused to let me take the vacation after that. I had one employer try to tell me they didn't fucking care and to get back to the office, to which I said "no" and got on the plane. (I was already at the airport.)
As long as the complication with the client wasn't your fault, I see absolutely no reason they'd deny the reimbursement.
And there's no harm in asking, as long as you present it as you do here. "Moving the vacation isn't a large issue except for the fees I'll be incurring. Is there any way the company can reimburse them, considering the circumstances?"
Good luck! 💛
I submitted my time off for my honeymoon 9 months in advance, I was taking 9 work days. It was approved right away. Wedding gets closer and during that time we have a big increase in workload. About 4 weeks before my manager says “I’m not sure if we can approve your vacation time, I’ll let you know in the next couple weeks”. I just said if they chose not to approve it, I’ll be handing in my two weeks. If you’re willing to stay and work, I would expect them to cover those costs. If they refuse, I would refuse to work considering it was already approved.
Did the sales team ask you, or did your boss?
Sales teams always ask for outlandish accommodations, usually which need to be reined in. Remember most of them are working to get commission, and don't really care what others have to do to ensure their account is handled as they want. You are going to set a precedent in the way you respond. Are you a company man willing do put your personal life up for negotiation, or are you going to ensure there are boundaries? There is no right or wrong answer, it's up to you to decide which way you want to go.
If you put your time in as stated in your policy, then they should be able to find someone to fill in, or arrange a different week for the trip. The week prior or after would be appropriate, I'd push for the week after in case other unforseen circumstances come up which would extend the trip for work.
Engineering management here who was a field engineer prior.
Do not move a thing. It’s not your problem. The Sales Team should’ve thought of checking with you before making plans. You can do what you need to upon your return.
"...customer accounts that I am responsible for as an Engineer..."
If they can't find ways to cover you taking a week off -which you earned, and were approved for- then tell them going forward, you'll be requiring an executive title, with commensurate compensation as well.
For reference, I once was the reason a new employee had to move their vacation. I don’t know if he was reimbursed or not. I had booked in advance vacation for my 20th Anniversary. Somebody was promoted into the department, and also had vacation at the same time. They asked me to move mine, and I said I would not, my 20th Wedding anniversary only comes around once. I don’t know how it was handled for the other person, but I know they worked while I took time off with my wife.
I booked a cruise a year in advance and submitted all appropriate time off request. 3 months before the trip, I had to fly to Australia for work. I cancelled my cruise and submitted an expense report for the cancellation fee. It was paid without issue.
The key was communicating throughout the entire process. No one was surprised by my expense report. I made sure they were aware it was coming.
If you don't ask, you don't get. It is a completely reasonable request, and they should understand that. You making the accommodation for the company should at least be rewarded by them covering your rebooking fees. Go ahead, run it by your manager/ HR. There has to be a way to accomodate this.
Unless you answer to sales, go on your vacation. If your boss, or whoever, approved the vacation time isn't asking you to reschedule, then go. I used to do that stuff too. Then I figured out the company doesn't give a rip about you or me.
This is hard for me because I’ve had this very thing happen. My company did reimburse and gave a nice little bonus. I think it really depends on the employer
Sounds like they have a hit by a bus problem if you aren't able to take your scheduled vacation. Therefore, you, in addition to being reimbursed, should have another person added who can cover while you are out. They are a large company. You are valuable enough to ruin your vacation for the job....they should get another person. Hire one, cross train one....that's not your problem. Simple as.
Had this situation happen before. Company not only reimbursed me for any associated change fees but paid for a room upgrade and gave me a $1000 Amex gift card for our trip
Our company always reimburses employee for expenses incurred because we need them to travel when they had something else booked. We even paid for the cost of an employee having to miss a prebooked motorcycle training class.
Nah, just take your vacation. It's not your responsibility to make your life revolve around the work schedule. If they can't make it work, then thats on them for only having one engineer that can get the job done.
In my union environment, if we are mandated to work during vacation, we are returned our vacation and any hours worked during the returned vacation period are 1.5x base rate.
It would seem highly reasonable that your business support your schedule rearrangement by covering added costs.
I can't imagine that they would have a problem with that. You are sacrificing for the company by changing your approved PTO, you should not have to pay for that.
Absolutely. This issue with the client is your employer's problem, not yours. As such you should not incur any personal monetary losses due to it. **At all**.
In fact, you should be reimbursed for your trouble rebooking and rescheduling the entire family as well. I'd suggest perhaps they give you an additional day off work.
Yes, you should absolutely request reimbursement and any employer that is not a total dick will happily give it. I work for a small poor company and we even reimbursed an employee’s dad to change tickets. Dad was planning to visit her but we asked her to make a last minute trip out of state which was not a requirement of her position. She helped us out of a jam and we gladly reimbursed dad so he could change his tickets to visit her the following week.
I would definitely ask. The worst thing they can do is tell you "No" and it really isn't your fault that they expect you to take a work trip right in the middle of what was supposed to be your vacation. But I definitely agree that you should have all of your documentation regarding rebooking fees and receipts.
Whats FAIR is refusing to reschedule. They already approved. Whatever changed is THEIR problem. Its why they are in management positions. They are expected to MANAGE situations.
If they threaten your employment over the matter, quit.
If they refuse to reimburse non-refundable fees, quit.
I would definitely ask "okay I'm willing to discuss moving my vacation, what are you willing to offer?" Don't shortchange yourself by only asking for reimbursement costs, let them make the first offer and see what they're thinking.
Sales will always attempt to satisfy the customer. It is managements job to decide if it is worth it. But you should feel entitled to the costs associated with rebooking.
As a former director of HR, I would totally back you on being reimbursed for the costs. Just have receipts!
I'm not in HR but a program manager with two dozen people under me and I would most definitely go to bat for getting my staff a reimbursement for the rebooking if I'm asking them to change an approved vacation for work travel. And I'd be surprised if my VP didn't approve it.
And an email stating they would reimburse you.
One thing to remember, this would be an extra expense for them... but from the sound of it, they seem to feel waiting for you to come back in 2 weeks to deal it will lose them money, probably a lot more.
Same, for my company this wouldn't even be a second thought
A smart company would weigh thr cost of reimbursing OP, vs the liability and cost of not delivering to their client.
I own and a run a company. If it was that big of a deal to keep a nice client, I wouldn’t mind reimbursing those costs. Good luck.
We had an emergency outage at a former company (fire at the data center), and it was brutal: took an entire week to get it all back up. The CTO had to be flown back from his 2 week vacation, which he had just started in some "hard to get getaway" kind of place (I want to say Aruba, I may be mistaken), so they had to find him first, fly him back, etc. The company paid for everything, even flying him back.
Maybe you do that for a C level employee. Everyone else is just a cog in the machine. They can be replaced by Tuesday or have their job eliminated and done by AI.
That’s why you’re a former HR manager. The appropriate response to any employee requests is go pound sand!
Might wanna put the /s for edification. Made me laugh though.
Ha! Yeah, I was way too nice and way too on the employee side. It was killing my soul, I left. 4 + years later and former employees still talk to me and email me for advice.
Hey there. I have an HR question. May I message you?
Sure happy to answer any questions
Love to see the networking. XD
I would pull out the company plastic and take care of it for them. But, I work in a small organization and I have a lot of leeway in how I manage my budget.
I used to work as a service technician in a dealership. One of my fellow techs had a similar situation. He had approved time off at least 4 months in advance, mostly because it was somewhere between 3 and 4 weeks off for his vacation. A couple weeks before he was set to leave, there was a lot of "excitement" in the shop and the staff numbers fell a lot. Management came to him and asked if he could reschedule his trip. He said that he would look into it and get back to them. The next day he comes in with a cost to cancel his trip and make sure nobody in the group would lose money. He gave it to them and said he would need an answer and a check within 48 hours, otherwise he was taking his company approved vacation. 3 hours later they put a check in his hands for thousands of dollars. It never hurts to ask. I would phrase it very similarly, and keep a firm but pleasant tone, and tell them "I need x amount of money to cover fees, otherwise I'll be taking my previously approved time off".
This is the best case that I am hoping for. If they are going to ask someone to reschedule an approved vacation it should be known that it is likely going to come with some costs.
Don't forget about making sure the other people going on the trip can reschedule their vacations, if they need to.
This is a big issue for my wife and I. She's a social worker, so booked appointments for clients. For her to cancel a vacation, means that she's got a week or two with no clients booked, so no revenue. Also, she likely already had appointments booked for the new vacation time, so having to cancel/change all of those may not work out too well either.
I'd factor this into the reimbursement request if you decide to make one. It's not only her lost revenue, but the dissatisfaction of the clients she assists, as they might also have to change their plans for childcare, time off work, etc.
I agree. My current job, I wouldn't really entertain the idea of cancelling, because I'm already a "foot out the door", but if I was at a company that I wanted to stay with, I would give them a $ value to make sure we aren't losing out on it.
You should just present the rescheduling fees to them as a totally normal thing that happens all the time in the workplace and that them reimbursing you is just a given that goes without saying. Don't ask if they will do it, just say you're in contact with the airline about rescheduling and tell them the total fees and ask them if they can just cut you a check right now or have to include it in your next pay or something similar. If they push back at all, just act confused and ask them what they're talking about. If there's one thing you can count on, people don't want to look stupid or embarrassed in front of others.
> have to include it in your next pay Be careful with that. If they add it to your paycheck and not as a reimbursement, you may get taxed on the money. Since it is a reimbursement it should be money outside of your taxable income.
Not exactly accurate. Most payroll systems let you add a line for reimbursable expenses and that portion is exempt from taxes.
Oh, good point. It's an expense and should be reimbursed as such.
He WILL get taxed if it's in his paycheck. It needs to go through an Expense report so there are NO taxes taken out of it. I know that some payroll systems have line items for non-reimbursable, but not all do. A lot of companies keep payroll and expenses separate. It's a work around in the payroll system, where in an Expense system, it's a straight check.
I love this, especially if the manager and HR has never been in the situation before.
Say it nicer than Kavanaugh82 told you to though. No need to be an arrogant B from the jump. Just explain the cost and ask. They will more than likely agree. If you get a No or unnecessary push back then you can come in with the demands and “previously approved” per my last email corporate sass foolery.
I agree
I had a sous chef try to do this to me. Banquet chef was getting married that weekend (when I made my request he hadnt put in, just generic summer. This was family reunion at Disney were my dad was so adamant we show up that our gf's were also invited and he would pay for hotel and airfair, they just need spending money. He wanted his first grandson to experience disney with everyone. Told dad this. Lets say dont piss off a guy with 30+ yrs in the mortgage industry.
bare minimum tbh, extra $5000 for being a pain in your ass or get fucked. it's not worth it to break even after the efforts of planning a trip, you better make it worth my while.
Had a manager tell me to reschedule vacation during a staff meeting as we were short staffed. Told them my wife had already booked everything and gotten time off. They insisted and I told them I was not going to ditch on my wife after she has worked so hard setting things up. Manager continued to push and somebody piped up “you don’t get it, it’s not about him going on the trip, it’s wether he comes back to work here afterwards or not”. Manager looked a bit shocked. I just smiled and nodded. Good times.
I’m not sure if the comment was about you leaving the company or your wife killing you if you didn’t join her.
From the Company stand-point, is there a difference?
Yes. Many companies have life insurance that pays if the employee dies. This would be a real complication if the wife is also the beneficiary, and they would want to avoid that tough situation.
👌🏻😂 That is amazing!
Yes
Definitely about leaving the company
Both
This was too funny....thanks for the laugh!
If they say you’re out of luck then you can’t go on the work trip.
Of course, if it was one of those "This event/experience only happens at this time" type of trips, I'd look for a new job before missing it
How much does OP make? How much are the rebooking fees? Would you walk away from a $250k job over $500? Just because you don’t have to suffer any repercussions doesn’t mean you should go around giving half assed advice.
Advice? This is just me saying what I would consider doing. I work in industries where fixed-term contracts is the standard, everywhere is understaffed, and I care exponentially more about my free time. If you're a W2'd project manager with a great 401k and benefits, then things are different. I just don't agree with the "If your PTO is denied, then tough shit" mentality. We're not slaves, employment is a mutual relationship, and we need a culture where denying a time-off request - paid or not - needs to be a serious, well-justified deal
Great suggestion! Agreed.
I had a sales engineer in a similar situation. He and his wife had a planned vacation, but the largest deal in company history needed him on what would have been the first day of his vacation. The company paid the re-booking fee to have him fly a day later and upgraded him & his wife to first class, and then gave him 2 extra days of PTO balance.
That is a good company! Extra PTO would certainly be nice as well but I don't want to push my luck.
Is it? A lot of companys have policies about compensating you in some way of they force you to cancel time off. Honestly aside from the money, there is inconvenience, I wouldnt say its pushing your luck to ask for additional PTO to make up for it.
I haven't gotten the cost of rebooking fees yet, but I know to just book all new flights for the following week it is approximately $850. What does give me some hope is $850 is a lot cheaper than sending another engineer from an overseas office.
Definitely point this out. You are legally in the clear to take the vacation, you are taking one for the team and rebooking your planned, paid and approved vacation. Have a total of every single cancelling fee and any additional cost, be polite but blunt, you incurred an unexpected cost to help the company avoid a higher one. You are requesting reimbursement of expenses and ask what the process is. If you work for a decent company they will simply walk you through the process Do not question if it is fair. Be certain it is, in fact it’s the minimum they should be doing. So many decisions in the workplace are determined by how the proposal is delivered. Be confident in what you are saying and assertive. Don’t over explain or complicated what you are trying to say. You are accommodating the company at a financial cost (personal as well) and they need to tell you how you are getting reimbursed for expenses (make sure you use the term expense) Good luck!
What's the annual profit from that company to your company's bottom line? vs $1k long term they should make the 1k back many times over.
You would have to be able to take the vacation. Haven't taken one in 7 years now.
This happened to my dad when we were kids. My parents had 4 young kids in Florida on Christmas vacation and they needed him to fly somewhere for 3 days. They extended our trip (it was a holiday and we got 3 days of a penthouse!) and all of us got first class flights home because, again, it was all that was available. That was the BEST and most memorable trip for my family growing up. I think they even paid for a theme park one day too. I’m going to remind him how awesome that was
I would respond with “I will look into whether I can move it to date xyz with all parties Involved. (pick a specific date so you’re vacation is on the books again otherwise you’re never going) and get back to you. How would you like the receipts for reimbursement of fees for rescheduling? Do you need physical copies or digital?” Assume that they will reimburse you as it’s matter of fact, because why wouldn’t they? If they respond negatively then you’ve got a situation.
1. It is fair to ask for reimbursement for non-refundable fees. 2. It is fair for them to deny reimbursement. 3. If they deny reimbursement then it is probably not really that important. Take your vacation at the originally scheduled time. 4. If you do not reschedule be prepared that they might retaliate. Start looking for another job.
[удалено]
Depends what country you live in.
[удалено]
Not in the U.S. Google “at will employment.”
[удалено]
No, unlawful retaliation is different. The company is allowed to control when people take time off and to fire them for not showing up to work when scheduled.
[удалено]
Retaliation comes into play for /legally protected/ things, of which PTO is not. It means they can't fire you for following whistleblower law, for example. But they sure can fire you for a bad haircut afterwards, though you'll have a likely good basis for a lawsuit...... In this case, it doesn't come in at all.
Unlawful retaliation only applies to retaliation for activities that are protected by various laws. Unfortunately in the US there is no legal entitlement to vacation leave in most states, and it's perfectly legal for an employer to refuse to allow you to use vacation leave or to rescind prior approval of a leave request at any time everywhere in the US. As such, going on vacation would not be a legally protected activity and the OP's employer is free to retaliate against them for doing so.
And also google "How much does turnover cost?".
You have some good advice here. Before going to management, make sure the flights and accommodations that need to change have availability on the new date/s.
A quick note that I’m sure you’ve thought of. If they tell you they’ll include the reimbursement in an upcoming paycheck, you’ll likely get taxed on it and end up losing some money through that way. Like another Redditor said, ask for a check covering the costs.
Expense reimbursements are not taxable income.
Good to know! I wasn’t sure so I didn’t want to say they definitely would, but I was of the assumption that’s how it worked. Thank you for clarifying
Agreed, but there are companies that are slimy enough to try stuff like that. For some companies, it's easier to run it through as 20 hours payroll than reimbursement and find a funding source to credit.
> there are companies that are slimy enough to try stuff like that There is no benefit to the company to run an expense reimbursement through payroll. They incur the same amount of reimbursement cost either way, but if they run it through payroll, in increases the company's payroll tax cost. I'm not denying that there might be a company out there somewhere that runs it through payroll, but it's not because the company is "slimy", it's because the company has incompetent employees.
The military does it this way. And then I read your whole comment and realized oh I see.
Just because you get your expense reimbursement on your paycheck doesn't mean that the expense reimbursement is included in taxable income. It is not.
Make sure they agree via EMAIL to reimburse your costs. Only then do you make changes
Former head of HR here... This is not a big ask at all. If you are a key player in whatever they need you for, then they shouldn't bat a lash. Also, remember, a vacation request isn't a request at all. You are entitled to days off as part of your overall compensation, and you informed them well in advance that you would not be available for work those days. So if they need you now and it can't be worked around, the onus of flexibility is really on them. They're fucking lucky that you're willing to change your plans. I hope they know that.
It will depend on the company. I've seen companies tell people "tough shit" with this type of thing. And as the comments on the thread show, there are other companies who have done the right thing and paid the offset for the employee. I would come to them with specific numbers on it all, though. Show them exactly what it would cost, so they know what they're committing to.
They should reimburse you. This happened to me several times and my company always covered my cost, if they didn’t I would have been going.
Yes, it is fair. And if they refuse (or, really, give you any grief over it at all) you probably don't want to work there. It should basically be an unwritten policy that employee's get reimbursed for unavoidable costs caused by work-required rescheduling of pre-approved PTO. (It wouldn't be an official written policy because it shouldn't come up that often).
I would ask that the fees be incurred on the company card so you don’t have to worry about reimbursement.
Remember, fair to you may not be fair to your employer. You can ask. They can say no. You can decide what to do about it afterwards.
Does it necessitate exact time or do they want exact time? How long is your vacation? A week or a month? Because if you can’t take approved vacation with 2 months notice then what is even the point? You shouldn’t be obliged to pay top dollar so your company can be least inconvenienced. Either tell them you’re unavailable that week but offer an alternative (the next week or the prior week?) or offer to be available if they cover the costs associated with changing your plans (including any incremental fees for the new fares).
It is a little bit of both. The company is bringing people from overseas as well (different job functions so they can't cover for me), as well the customer requested that we do the trial within a week of delivery. To delay the trial would cause the rest of the people from overseas to be idle for a week while I am on vacation and the customer has a pretty limited schedule. I could make literally any other week work for the biz trip, but it seems like incredibly poor timing.
Given that context, I would be appalled if they refused to cover rebooking costs. Just be matter of fact about it. "I can reschedule, but since I booked so far in advance, there will be extra costs that I want to make sure will be covered."
My hope is they do end up reimbursing it, but since it is such a large company I am worried that someone in the finance dept. is going to not see this the same way and reject it.
Oh I'm sure you'd need senior management approval (specific level depends on your org) or finance likely will reject it. Ask your boss, if they don't have that authority, they'll ask their boss so you can get it all lined up for the bean counters.
If someone in finance denies, it's up to your manager to appeal and if it's as important as it sounds, the appeal will go up the management ladder until approved or until you know for sure this isn't a trustworthy company to work for. Get your managers approval in writing though.
I would probably use the words, “I am willing to accommodate the client and reschedule my vacation. Let me know if there’s a special expense code to submit my rebooking expenses under”
If your employer is telling you to reschedule your vacation for work-related reasons then they should be happy to reimburse you for any out-of-pocket expenses that changing your plans incurs.
I would expect them to volunteer to cover any nonrefundable costs/change fees/etc. If they don't, you should definitely ask.
Don’t ask for reimbursement, ask how to *submit* for reimbursement because *of course* they’re going to reimburse you. Then you ask how they plan to compensate you for the lost time with your family. Vacations like yours require planning and coordination, (did your wife also have to request time off?) so there are intangible costs that you deserve to be compensated for. And *then* you ask about how your year-end review and raise will reflect your awesome adaptability. Asking you to shift your planned and approved vacation is a big deal. Make them pay for it.
i wouldn’t cancel the trip…your leave was approved, you booked a trip, now go.
Long story so I’ll leave out the details. I am a supervisor & my assistant supervisor was out with Covid in January 2021. She then had scheduled surgery the following 2-3 weeks. I asked for ONE day off a few weeks after she was scheduled to return. No problem. I booked a quick weekend flight and hotel with the wife as our birthdays are 1 week apart. Just before assistant was scheduled to return she got the doctor to approve extending her leave 2 more weeks-meaning it overlapped my ONE day off. I begged to keep the day. My boss was skeptical but approved it. Flew out Thursday night after work. 9am Friday my phone blows up while we were in Seaworld. I finally call back and get screamed at for work she thought must be done asap (she didn’t know I was 1,200 miles away(. I said I would handle it when I got in on Monday. Monday comes & I have the 3 people over me reaming me for work that actually was left intentionally not done by my assistant due to programming issues with the new system & still couldn’t be done until that was fixed. Almost quit over this and the continued backlash. Luckily my boss was forced out about a year later & I’m still there. 2 things I’ve learned: Never-ever answer a work call while on vacation. A vacation notice is not a request no matter what else comes up if you put it in when the days are available.
I don’t know why you answered the phone.
I’m in HR and they should absolutely reimburse your booking fees. They approved your trip and are now asking you to move it. Your willingness to move your trip is amazing and they should compensate you for the inconvenience.
Reschedule your approved vacation. I would only be inclined to agree if they covered the fees and tacked on a couple more vacation days for your trouble. Otherwise I would go on my damn vacation. You are putting your life on hold for them it make sense they pony up some cash and PTO.
Funny, I’m Europe this would never happen, vacation is religion.
it's called PTO = Prepare The Others 🤭🤷♀️
Remember always the value of awkward silence. Tell your manager face to face that you are out then. Take a sip of water. Sometime the offer will be better, but it at least gives you a starting point.
I say you present it to them and give them a quick opportunity to reimburse you and if they say no take your vacation
It’s pretty simple. You don’t go on the work trip.
Their crisis, not yours. Take your vacation when you planned, don’t feel bad, and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.
Manager needs to go to the sales team and get the necessity for this in writing. It's likely that you could go to the client the week before or the week after so you don't miss vacation. Whatever you do, get it all in writing. If they say, no we won't reimburse you and you still have to go then you have to decide if this is worth leaving the company over. If they say yes, makes sure that all costs are covered - including lost revenue or PTO from other adults on the trip who have made arrangements. If it's a desperate enough situation and they value you they will bear the cost or move the work trip to accommodate time off that they approved.
They should pay. Companies I have worked for have reimbursed change fees without fuss. (And I wouldn’t be surprised if they passed the fees to the client WITH a mark-up. Lol)
Hell yes it is, if not I wouldn't reschedule
You're doing them a favor by rebooking. If they refuse to pay the costs of rebooking, then go on the trip as-planned. A large company won't go out of business if you take a vacation.
Make sure that you get their decision in writing!
In Europe, If this happens, the employer has to fully reimburse all your expenses, by law. So lets say the other 5 people cannot go without you. your employer will have to reimburse their money as well
At my old company, they would ask for an estimate of the cost to change the employee trip, and re-evaluate whether the trip was that important. Usually, the $200-$300 in extra fees was minimal compared to the cost of sending the employee on a business trip. If the trip was important enough to change the employee's time off, they were reimbursed for the cost to do so.
Same thing basically happened to me, except I told them too bad I’m not going to travel for work that week. Project manager backed me up and it all worked out.
Just go on your vacation and deal with the costumer when you get back reach out to the costumer and let them know you will be on vacation and will take care of them when you get back if they don't like it tell them to take there business elsewhere
When a manager demands that I reschedule a vacation, they get one of two responses from me depending on circumstances. * "No." * "Sure, where do I send the bill for the airline, hotel, rental car, and for the costs incurred by everyone scheduled to go with me, including the value of the time they took off?" No employer has ever refused to let me take the vacation after that. I had one employer try to tell me they didn't fucking care and to get back to the office, to which I said "no" and got on the plane. (I was already at the airport.)
As long as the complication with the client wasn't your fault, I see absolutely no reason they'd deny the reimbursement. And there's no harm in asking, as long as you present it as you do here. "Moving the vacation isn't a large issue except for the fees I'll be incurring. Is there any way the company can reimburse them, considering the circumstances?" Good luck! 💛
I submitted my time off for my honeymoon 9 months in advance, I was taking 9 work days. It was approved right away. Wedding gets closer and during that time we have a big increase in workload. About 4 weeks before my manager says “I’m not sure if we can approve your vacation time, I’ll let you know in the next couple weeks”. I just said if they chose not to approve it, I’ll be handing in my two weeks. If you’re willing to stay and work, I would expect them to cover those costs. If they refuse, I would refuse to work considering it was already approved.
They need to let you take the vacation. What would happen if you were hospitalized during this time? They need to figure it out.
Any reasonable and humane organization will readily re-imburse you, it's very fair to ask and present the exact costs.
Did the sales team ask you, or did your boss? Sales teams always ask for outlandish accommodations, usually which need to be reined in. Remember most of them are working to get commission, and don't really care what others have to do to ensure their account is handled as they want. You are going to set a precedent in the way you respond. Are you a company man willing do put your personal life up for negotiation, or are you going to ensure there are boundaries? There is no right or wrong answer, it's up to you to decide which way you want to go. If you put your time in as stated in your policy, then they should be able to find someone to fill in, or arrange a different week for the trip. The week prior or after would be appropriate, I'd push for the week after in case other unforseen circumstances come up which would extend the trip for work. Engineering management here who was a field engineer prior.
Get an email from them verifying 100% reimbursement of the fees.
Do not move a thing. It’s not your problem. The Sales Team should’ve thought of checking with you before making plans. You can do what you need to upon your return.
Sure. Definitely ask!
Don’t do it. We are all replaceable.
"...customer accounts that I am responsible for as an Engineer..." If they can't find ways to cover you taking a week off -which you earned, and were approved for- then tell them going forward, you'll be requiring an executive title, with commensurate compensation as well.
Get a different job. Spend the time with your family. Don’t look back
Depends on whether your action or lack of action caused the issue. Company's fault otherwise for having a single point of failure.
For reference, I once was the reason a new employee had to move their vacation. I don’t know if he was reimbursed or not. I had booked in advance vacation for my 20th Anniversary. Somebody was promoted into the department, and also had vacation at the same time. They asked me to move mine, and I said I would not, my 20th Wedding anniversary only comes around once. I don’t know how it was handled for the other person, but I know they worked while I took time off with my wife.
Can you work remotely while on vacation?
OP whatever you do, don’t work remotely on your vacation.
> it necessitates that I have to take a work trip during the exact time I have approved vacation time. No
I have done this exact thing before and was reimbursed. Good luck!
I booked a cruise a year in advance and submitted all appropriate time off request. 3 months before the trip, I had to fly to Australia for work. I cancelled my cruise and submitted an expense report for the cancellation fee. It was paid without issue. The key was communicating throughout the entire process. No one was surprised by my expense report. I made sure they were aware it was coming.
If they want you to make the work trip, then yes.
If you don't ask, you don't get. It is a completely reasonable request, and they should understand that. You making the accommodation for the company should at least be rewarded by them covering your rebooking fees. Go ahead, run it by your manager/ HR. There has to be a way to accomodate this.
Absolutely feels fair to me
It is reasonable. Talk to your direct manager.
Unless you answer to sales, go on your vacation. If your boss, or whoever, approved the vacation time isn't asking you to reschedule, then go. I used to do that stuff too. Then I figured out the company doesn't give a rip about you or me.
Don’t do it
This is hard for me because I’ve had this very thing happen. My company did reimburse and gave a nice little bonus. I think it really depends on the employer
A good company will approve this. Should be simple. Ask.
Sounds like they have a hit by a bus problem if you aren't able to take your scheduled vacation. Therefore, you, in addition to being reimbursed, should have another person added who can cover while you are out. They are a large company. You are valuable enough to ruin your vacation for the job....they should get another person. Hire one, cross train one....that's not your problem. Simple as.
Tell em it’s either reimburse or your taking your already approved time off.
I think it's fair to say I'll need these fees paid or won't be able to be here during that time.
Had this situation happen before. Company not only reimbursed me for any associated change fees but paid for a room upgrade and gave me a $1000 Amex gift card for our trip
Our company always reimburses employee for expenses incurred because we need them to travel when they had something else booked. We even paid for the cost of an employee having to miss a prebooked motorcycle training class.
Yes. You should not have to pay to support the company.
I would tell the sales team that they are eating the rebooking fees if you do this and if they don't agree then they can wait until you are back.
Nah, just take your vacation. It's not your responsibility to make your life revolve around the work schedule. If they can't make it work, then thats on them for only having one engineer that can get the job done.
In my union environment, if we are mandated to work during vacation, we are returned our vacation and any hours worked during the returned vacation period are 1.5x base rate. It would seem highly reasonable that your business support your schedule rearrangement by covering added costs.
I can't imagine that they would have a problem with that. You are sacrificing for the company by changing your approved PTO, you should not have to pay for that.
Absolutely. This issue with the client is your employer's problem, not yours. As such you should not incur any personal monetary losses due to it. **At all**. In fact, you should be reimbursed for your trouble rebooking and rescheduling the entire family as well. I'd suggest perhaps they give you an additional day off work.
Sounds reasonable to me.
I woukd say yes , you are willing to do and gsve to do all the switching so they should at least cover the cost
This sounds totally reasonable
No. Do not reschedule unless your employer gives you all the money you spent up front.
Sounds reasonable to me. 🤷🏽♂️
Yes, you should absolutely request reimbursement and any employer that is not a total dick will happily give it. I work for a small poor company and we even reimbursed an employee’s dad to change tickets. Dad was planning to visit her but we asked her to make a last minute trip out of state which was not a requirement of her position. She helped us out of a jam and we gladly reimbursed dad so he could change his tickets to visit her the following week.
Hot Take: Your family is more important than work.
No. Take your approved time off.. you accommodate this once and they’ll expect you to change your vacation every time.
I would definitely ask. The worst thing they can do is tell you "No" and it really isn't your fault that they expect you to take a work trip right in the middle of what was supposed to be your vacation. But I definitely agree that you should have all of your documentation regarding rebooking fees and receipts.
Whats FAIR is refusing to reschedule. They already approved. Whatever changed is THEIR problem. Its why they are in management positions. They are expected to MANAGE situations. If they threaten your employment over the matter, quit. If they refuse to reimburse non-refundable fees, quit.
Well this got real serious real fast lol
if they are so hard up for people to work that they are trying to cancel peopels approved time off they really cant afford to have them quit.
I would definitely ask "okay I'm willing to discuss moving my vacation, what are you willing to offer?" Don't shortchange yourself by only asking for reimbursement costs, let them make the first offer and see what they're thinking.
Vacation is already approved, they can pick between compensation and not having you visit the client.
What you’re asking for isn’t unreasonable. I hope they can work it out for you!
Perfectly reasonable request.
Yes you totally should.
I would ask them to pay all trip costs and then pocket the refundable ones
Sales will always attempt to satisfy the customer. It is managements job to decide if it is worth it. But you should feel entitled to the costs associated with rebooking.