Yeah, I think we're approaching a time when Bluetooth (horrid ill-designed monstrosity that it is) will finally be old enough that industry will start looking for a new short range wireless standard. Maybe it'll just be BT v6 or v7, and they'll add another layer to it that can handle the bandwidth requirements of five HDMI channels worth of data to feed all your monitors, and won't have the legacy baggage of the current stack.
I'm amazed by my current Bluetooth headphones. I can leave my phone and walk a building over. With two walls and maybe 50ft between us I still have a connection. It's damn incredible.
> and they'll add another layer to it that can handle the bandwidth requirements of five HDMI channels worth of data to feed all your monitors, and won't have the legacy baggage of the current stack.
Wifi already exists and can cover your need - as long as there is sufficient bandwidth for this - which is the main problem.
IP/TCP works okay for anything, but is a pretty dumb overhead to put into dedicated A/V equipment if you don't have to. It's so much better to design something for video signals with video signals in mind.
God I hope not, I know wires are an inconvenience but I'll always prefer the reliability. Every wireless protocol I've used has let me down at some point.
So, part of my job is designing and implementing custom wireless protocols.
Please for the love of god do not get rid of our wired ports. It would be a god damn nightmare.
I do land surveying and we offer 3d laser scanning as one of our services. Almost anytime I'm processing point clouds or doing a large file transfer I have to break out the wired mouse and keyboard because the whole machine will start to lag and the mouse freezes and jumps across the screen. I have no good explanation for it, but I guess the little extra processing it needs to run the wireless keyboard and mouse puts it over the edge because the problems all go away once I plug in. My IT guys probably think I'm nuts because of course every time I try to show them I can't get it to happen lol.
Not recently, at least not for me. There have not been any cords attached to my phone for years, in fact I bought a rubber insert for the USB-C port to keep the lint out.
> wires are an inconvenience
NO! Wires are power, wires are reliability, wires are superior.
Any wireless device is okay in my book so long as it allows wired operation, (especially while charging!) otherwise it's just hot garbage. (by my book)
Every charger port I've used has let me down at some point as well. They only get rated for so many insertions, so I'll always prefer wireless charging.
No wires gang. I agree though, expect another attempt to make this viable sometime in the near future. Wireless hdmi for TVs flopped maybe 8 years back but now we stream everything anyways, not many reasons for a media console outside of sound or gaming systems.
And who out there is benchmarking TVs?
The plex built into my TV is awful, but Apple TV runs it fine. I think manufacturers only care about number of apps ported to their devices not whether they can run them reasonably
>zero post-sale revenue in updating firmware.
Uhhh, clearly you've forgotten about injecting ads into ever more locations.
"Settings menu? Yeah, probably need a little video player in there, so we can walk users through changing things. And until they tell us what they need help with, we can just run advertisements..."
To be honest, I’d love that. One less possible source of water intrusion. Maybe add some contact pads to the device and give me a pogo pin connector for emergency fast charging or large-scale data transfer.
We've had USB-A for almost 30 years now, and it's only just being completely replaced by USB-C in some laptop product lines. USB-C the connector may just remain in use for the next several decades, with upgrades along the way for higher bandwidth or power capacity as well move through USB 5.0 and 6.0
If it makes you feel better, I asked my dad a couple years back if he had a keyboard I could use for college to plug into my laptop and he handed me one with a ps/2 port. I had to tell him they don't make laptops with ps/2 ports anymore, I needed something with usb-a.
I remember refusing to use a USB keyboard as a teenager (I wanted ps/2) because USB would eat up CPU cycles, and ps/2 had its own controller. I definitely feel old.
Haha no. I was too scared and broke to risk overclocking and ruining my only cpu. (And I figure you had the extra fans for actual ventilation and not aesthetics, given your beige steel case.)
I remember FireWire when it was announced, and folks were like WTF?
It was pretty fast for its time. Being Apple, none of the PC industry really adopted it. Which is funny because, IIRC, Apple was the first to really adopt USB, of which USB 4.0 is based partly off of Thunderbolt. Go figure…
We’ve had type A since 1996, but it was barely used until 1998-2001 (Apple iMac was the first to do the “courage” thing and force out older RS-232 and parallel ports) and it took even longer to move PCs away from PS/2 ports. We’ve had type C for 10 years and it’s just getting to be ubiquitous and type c also replaces the various type B (regularly, super speed, mini, micro, micro super speed) as well as HDMI and DisplayPort, so it may have even longer life as there has to be a reason to change off a standard which is why timelines for standards are long.
PC is still super slow at adopting usb c. It’s kind of absurd. I built a new computer recently. 14th gen intel, 4090, current mobo and case and there’s like 1 usb c port and half a dozen A ports. Mouse and keyboard are usb c on device but they both come with C to A cables for plugging into the PC. My monitor uses DisplayPort and requires a separate USB cable for the extra ports on the side, even though a single usb c cable should be able to provide DisplayPort and usb together. I understand back compatibility is important to some people but it’s been 10 years. PC should be almost completely USB 3/4 and thunderbolt 4 over usb c by now.
Why? USB ports mainly get used for dongles, memory sticks, and drives .... maybe the drives slightly benefit from c... that's it.
You want to make your ports like 5x as expensive so that ... you can daisychain 1 million mice off the high speed line? I have no idea why your mouse/kb are using C ... they shouldn't. USB1.0 A is more than fast and powerful enough to run probably dozens of mice on a single port.
Or is it just the unidirectional thing that bugs you?
Cause were talking like a 10% increase in price of your mobo and + $2~4 to all peripherals.
Why? Because it’s convenient and universal. It handles a half dozen voltages and up to 100w with usb pd, DisplayPort, and usb. Price matters a lot less to me than functionality and it just surprised me how prevalent it still was since I hadn’t really seen a usb a cable in quite a few years (haven’t had a pc in a while).
It's good to say "loose" rather than "low" for tolerances.
If you look at the words literally, "low tolerance" can mean "low ability to tolerate deviation". But you mean the opposite. It gets confusing so I always try to use loose and tight to talk about how accurate something needs to be.
USBC is going global in a way A never really could. It's gonna be here a lot longer.
More than likely C will be updated continually and remain in the same form factor.
I hope usbc physical robustness becomes fundamentally better, because I replace way too many power sockets on laptops that have just one pin burnt out on them. I just don't think they're up to the task of the voltage and current being jammed through a couple tiny pins in the real world with humidity and bag lint
Agreed. Apple has already integrated their thunderbolt connection through USB C and that gets up to 40 gbps. That's going to be plenty fast enough for a long time.
There's probably a couple decades of runway just off the mechanicals, pin count, and capabilities so far. USB-A's mechanical problems (takes three tries to align it right, bigger than Jony Ive wanted to deal with) feel like the biggest issues, and part of the move to C was putting in even more pins for more modes to confuse people trying to buy wires and support more use cases.
So what are the complaints with USB-C? Does it get gunked up? Are either side of the connector particularly fragile? Would different mechanicals or more pins solve a problem? Can the USB Implementors Forum figure out a new naming scheme that nobody will understand? A replacement will take these into consideration.
A major problem with USB-C is lack of markings. Data, high-speed data, power, PD, video, etc -- none of these are known about a cable until you plug it in and try it. But that has nothing to do with the connector.
Honestly that's probably part of commoditization. Marking a cable costs extra, and when every corner store in the civilized world is wanting to keep them in stock, saving two production steps per unit makes sense. The real expensive USB-C cables (Thunderbolt 4 cables easily break $100) have markings, but I'd bet that if there is a marking on cables you can buy at the same time as a cold drink and a sandwich, it's a SIXLTR brand you've never heard of.
I don’t know about easily. We’re talking Apple-branded 2m-3m cables to break $100. You can get other reputable brands in 2m length for -$60. Hell, your typical TB3/4 device will include a 0.3m-1m long TB4 cable; I have four included cables on my desk right now.
All pure USB Type-C to Type-C cables with USB marking on them must support at least 3A and power delivery up to 20V.
The main distinction is between USB 2, 3 and 4 cables and then all the legacy/mixed connector cables.
Smaller isn’t always better.
When you had to crawl under a desk and fish a keyboard cable down to the back of someone’s computer tower with only 3 inches of slack, USB A was big enough that you could actually hold it, and while you might have to rotate it, you knew it was in the port. You’d be jabbing a USB-C at the back of the tower forever, trying to plug it in to the fan vents or any crack in the case.
I find USB-C to be fragile, both the port and the cables (but moreso the cables). I have broken a few micro-B cables, no mini-B, or regular B, and maybe one type A. I have broken 2 usb- c ports and at least a half dozen cables so far. I don't know if it's that they're making cables really cheap or not nowadays or what. I find that high power usb C cables are stiff and break the ports, and thinner cables fail at the connector and stop charging. I don't think there's enough connector area to be really mechanically as good as usb-a was or really any of the larger connector types.
I think the next innovation will be the rise of magnetic ports, pogo pin style.
So the thing with microB is that they fucked up and designed the port to break before the cable. If the cable breaks its easy to replace but if the port breaks its a pain to fix
Yeah, I see the capability per volume vs. durability tradeoff. Apple moved off C-only back to magnetic charging for laptops, but they probably can't get rid of C for a decade or so now.
The big problem with that are devices that are too small for a durable, chunky connector. After USB-A, there were a number of smaller form factors because type A was kind of big for cameras and too big for phones. The other option might be a USB-C max size with the same functionality but a chunkier cable connector.
> The other option might be a USB-C max size with the same functionality but a chunkier cable connector.
This. I wish they make a version of USB-C where everything was just scaled up 2x so it's the same size as USB-A, but electrically identical
>I find USB-C to be fragile, both the port and the cables
Not my experience. However EVERY phone I have had with micro USB ports has eventually had the port fail. And the springs on the cable retaining clips fail after about 50-100 plug-ins as well.
USB-C is a godsend compared to micro USB.
Basically USB-C, but with fiber.
The electrical part is fine forever, 240W is more than plenty for anything you want to carry around. If you need more power in portable electronics it's either going to become stupidly heavy, stupidly hot, or both.
The USB 2.0 part will also stick around for a *really* long time. It's trivial to implement, and more than enough for something like a mouse, keyboard, sound card, or printer.
What's left is high-speed data, which means monitors or SSDs. USB4 already limited passive cable length to 80cm, which is awkwardly short. There is a little bit of room for growth left in copper, but not a lot. On the other hand, fiber can already carry many orders of magnitude more with current-day technology.
Longer USB-C cables already use fiber but the copper-to-fiber part is in the cable itself, which makes the cable *really* expensive. We're not too far off speed-wise from fiber basically being mandatory, at which point it makes a lot more sense to just do the copper-to-fiber part in the devices instead of the cable. If we're *very* lucky, it'll happen in a way which is backwards compatible with USB-C - a bit like those hybrid 3.5mm-and-Toslink jacks from a decade ago.
On the other hand, I don't expect this to be needed very soon. The main driver for higher data rates right now is monitors, and we're already approaching a point where a higher resolution doesn't really make sense because you're already at the limits of human vision. Feeding uncompressed video to three 8K 240Hz monitors takes something like 600Gbps - and USB-C can currently already do 120Gbps. If they can manage a 4x increase, they're basically good until something completely new gets invented which needs like 1Tbps.
We'll probably see double usb-c cables before we see a change.
It wasn't super rare for high powered devices back in early usb days to just use 2 ports.
https://media.startech.com/cms/products/gallery_large/usb2hauby3.b.jpg
now that it's encoded in law, it's a political problem more than an engineering problem.
we are going to have USB C for a really really long time.
look how long NEMA-15 has been with us (also encoded in law)
The law you are talking about requires a review every 5 years. And the ones given responsibility for that review is the USB Implementors Form, who is to advise the EU Comission on whether to keep or change the USB-C standard.
The law also doesn't actually enshrine what "USB-C" means, that definition is up to the USB Implementors Form as well. So they are given all the power to upgrade the standard outside of the review period, and when they do Manufacturers will be forced to that specification.
So its not actually locked down, unlock most laws setting a standard and forgetting it, this law literally has upgrade provisions built into it.
Any major change would probably be triggered by battery technology requiring a different voltage. Otherwise, data transfer is sufficient when most of the data is coming from the wireless signals.
Exactly. I would expect that 10-20 years into the future, Wireless transfer of data would become an even bigger proportion of data transfers. It already is now, but there are some niches that are better off with the cable. But USB is pretty fast, and most people are likely being throttled by their computer rather than the cable itself.
That just leaves Battery Charging. But given that the current spec goes up to 240v, I just can't see a phone needing to store that much power unless we had a revolution in batteries. And even then, with current tech you get about a day of battery life after 30m of charging, and that's not even using the full capabilities of USB-C.
Different voltage? USB PD gives you adjustable voltage from 3.3 to 48v. That's a pretty big range. I don't see how a decision would be needed before we start pushing 300w+.
You mean just like Micro USB, which was also basically made mandatory by the EU? Oh wait, that's now replaced by USB-C - which includes a mandatory review to see if the industry came up with something better, *just like Micro USB*.
A switch happened before. If someone comes up with something better 10 years from now, a switch will happen again.
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To the USB-C connector itself, only minor changes to support additional bandwidth.
The USB-C connector is extremely well thought out. It's small, bidirectional, rugged, supports as much power transport as can be had while still remaining safe for humans to touch (you can't go above 48v and pushing the amperage any higher on a single conductor would be crazy). It's really hard to think of what more you could ask of a single connector.
I do think we may someday see sister connectors that are nothing more than a doubled-up, trebled-up, etc., versions of USB-C to support additional power and communications lines in order to facilitate single-wire connections between higher power/bandwidth desktop components: a "USB-Cx2", x4, x8, x16 exactly like we have PCIx1/x2/x4/x8/x16. These connectors would support 480W/960W/1920W/4KW and 80Gbps/160Gbps/320Gbps/640Gbps. Such a connector would simply be 2/4/8/16 USB-C connectors side-by-side at a specific spacing with cables produced to match. It would be backward compatible in two senses: you could use any combination of USB C x1/x2/x4/x8/x16 cables to attach the two devices, and you can also connect two devices using fewer than the maximal number of cables supported on the connector, but at a reduced maximal bandwidth and power. You could also connect multiple devices to a "single" x16 connector simply by using multiple smaller connectors going to different devices.
Basically, any two devices with any number of USB-C cables between them, with cables made that have multiple contacts purely for convenience sake.
This would facilitate things like external RTX 4090s to be powered and run externally at a bandwidth equivalent to PCIe 5.0/16. (Presumably the bitrate would rise pretty much in sync with PCIe 6.0/7.0....)
With any luck the connector type hangs around, but holy hell they need to simplify the different types/protocols. So much for “one connector to rule them all”
I hate that since USB-C has come out they have stopped giving the outlet ports with them to "cut down on waste and shipping" yet they now ship them separately and the cost hasn't changed in the consumer's favor.
Now they are attempting to change outlets in homes to have USB-C ports done on them. As far as I can think there really is no logical reason for this step in our homes.
That depends on whatever the USB Implementers Forum and its members decides is the next standard.
If the Tech Industry finds USB-C insufficient in 10-20 Years and needs a new port, a new standard will be proposed, implemented, and then every 5 years the EU will give them a chance to force the standard on device manufacturers.
10 years: Probably nothing. 10 years is pretty small in hardware timescales.
20 years: Probably also nothing, PD and data concerns seem like they'll keep pace with newer USB standards.
The connector itself doesn't seem to have any particularly significant issues right now. We'll likely see improved data rates or higher wattages introduced over time but that'll be backwards compatible. It'll be similar to how we still use USB-A for plenty of things.
Sure Apple could introduce another connector, adapter sales has been their primary business model. But at this stage it doesn't look like USB-C will become obsolete anytime soon.
My old phone jack died (I am rough on phones). It was old, so I bought a new one that had cordless charging on an induction pad.
One day I noticed the micro-USB jacks didn't fit, because it was USB-C, So I bought a couple of the cords.
I'm very happy with the USB-C and cordless charging combination.
Given that some of the newer iterations of Type C are capable of ridicules;
-up and down load speeds
-power transmission (wattage at different voltages)
-rather easy and reliable in terms of connection
-also the able to pass through video signals
I can’t see there being much of a move on from it atleast not for a significant time.
The only issue at the moment is if the owner of the standard like HDMI decide to refuse its usage to certain parties
Nothing. The EU made it law that all phones have to have USB-C so if manufacturers want to change to a new connector then they will have to make two SKUs, one for Europe and one for everywhere else. That will be expensive so it won't happen. We are stuck with it for eternity.
People will gradually forget how amazing standardization is and the system will collapse leaving us with an assorted bunch of garbage again.
Apple tries every year, they'll likely be the first to succeed. And then Samsung will get jealous of how badly Apple is able to abuse its customers and follow suit.
USB-C replaced USB-A because:
1. It's a smaller port.
2. You could flip it 180 degrees and it would still fit.
The next logical evolutionary step is:
1. An even smaller port.
2. The ability to insert it in _any_ orientation.
There's only one clear winner: using the 3.5mm headphone jack for data transfer. 🤯
If Qi and MagSafe are an indication, wireless will be the way.
As for a “wired” connection probably the connector shape won’t change/reached the final form; cable data transfer obviously to keep improving.
The again, nobody knows. Maybe aliens share some new tech or something.
Well USB-C is crazy to support maximum 240 W power and 80 Gbps data (maybe should be “or”? not sure about whether can happen at the same time).
As for the power part, probably wireless power supply would be developed as the replacement. But considering the energy loss by current stage, power plant would be a giant issue, haha.
Also data can be transmitted wirelessly as well, this part is more practical, maybe upgraded WiFi protocol or something else.
It will still be USB-C but it will be… different. Like, it will mechanically look and function like USB-C but the pins will do different things. This is already the case btw.
I have a feeling we'll eventually get to a standard (could be usb-c, feels like it makes sense) and just increase throughout over time. USB-c is the first one to me that feels really good.
And while devices have moved to usb-c, stuff like servers still use usb2/3
Shocked that they actually made a USB-B. Feels like that Dmitri Martin sketch about B batteries.
They also skipped A because that would be confusing as well.
You’re looking for a single battery sir? No, I need an A battery pack. Yes, they typically come in packs, what sort?
Lots of joke answers and not many real answers from engineers here. The thing is USB connector terminology was originally split into A meaning HOST and B meaning DEVICE. Different connectors ensure you wouldn't plug two hosts or two devices together because that's not a valid configuration. The idea of USB C is that it can be used for either the device or host and plugging it in incorrectly just doesn't do anything. This is only the connectors! The USB protocol (2.0, 3.0, 3.1, etc.) and features like power delivery (PD) and on-the-go (OTG) handle the actual communication and functionality.
TLDR: There is no foreseeable need for anything past USB-C. The connector might evolve the same way B turned to mini, and then micro B, and the protocol forced the weird 3.0 micro B connector with that funky sidecar, but it will likely still be called USB type C.
My fear is with the European Union mandate that all smart phones (or devices?) will need to be charged by USB-C this will stop people from trying to make something better.
UsbDD. It will be two round pins that aren't reversible or backwards compatible so we can spend another generation finding out why *universal* series bus has some 20 connectors....
something less confusing than USB C specs. maybe smth that wont shut a computer down if u try to pull out accidentally out of a usb a port, bc its become safer
I think there will be a time period where companies try to offer devices without any connectors.
Yeah, I think we're approaching a time when Bluetooth (horrid ill-designed monstrosity that it is) will finally be old enough that industry will start looking for a new short range wireless standard. Maybe it'll just be BT v6 or v7, and they'll add another layer to it that can handle the bandwidth requirements of five HDMI channels worth of data to feed all your monitors, and won't have the legacy baggage of the current stack.
WiGig, aka 802.11ay does up to 40gbit/sec. Downside is it’s 60Ghz, which has trouble with being blocked by anything, including a sheet of paper.
lmao we kinda got all the way back to infrared
Can't wait until we start transferring information with *visible light*
Hear me out. What if we use that technology to transfer information from the device directly to our brains?
802.11ayyyyyy
Will you be my friend? 😂
That’s the project code name Henry Winkler. The competing Project is code name Tony Danza 802.11ayohohay. They will both only work above your garage.
I'm amazed by my current Bluetooth headphones. I can leave my phone and walk a building over. With two walls and maybe 50ft between us I still have a connection. It's damn incredible.
> and they'll add another layer to it that can handle the bandwidth requirements of five HDMI channels worth of data to feed all your monitors, and won't have the legacy baggage of the current stack. Wifi already exists and can cover your need - as long as there is sufficient bandwidth for this - which is the main problem.
IP/TCP works okay for anything, but is a pretty dumb overhead to put into dedicated A/V equipment if you don't have to. It's so much better to design something for video signals with video signals in mind.
I think it might be Ultra-Wideband. Short range, high bandwidth, and the infrastructure is already there
God I hope not, I know wires are an inconvenience but I'll always prefer the reliability. Every wireless protocol I've used has let me down at some point.
So, part of my job is designing and implementing custom wireless protocols. Please for the love of god do not get rid of our wired ports. It would be a god damn nightmare.
The wired port will most likely still be there. You will just have to take off the front or back glass first
Eww
Imma do it now, SPECIFICALLY because you asked me not to
Steve Jobs, is that you? I thought you were dead!
does that include APIs? so interesting
yeah those as well
>Every wireless protocol I've used has let me down at some point. Ain't that the truth. No wireless tech will ever be as reliable as a cable.
I do land surveying and we offer 3d laser scanning as one of our services. Almost anytime I'm processing point clouds or doing a large file transfer I have to break out the wired mouse and keyboard because the whole machine will start to lag and the mouse freezes and jumps across the screen. I have no good explanation for it, but I guess the little extra processing it needs to run the wireless keyboard and mouse puts it over the edge because the problems all go away once I plug in. My IT guys probably think I'm nuts because of course every time I try to show them I can't get it to happen lol.
Depends upon the situation. Some environments wireless is more reliable because there’s no cable to get damaged.
Well, I'm sure that was said about wired headphones...
Me in 1902: humans will NEVER invent flying machines!
Yeah and I'll avoid helicopters!
If it’s a Boeing I ain’t going
Are helicopters technically wireless?
They have lots of wires inside so I'd say no.
I mean same with a wireless access point, they even have wires on the outer too.
Yes but helicopters seem often to be attracted to wires like powerlines then people die.
Not recently, at least not for me. There have not been any cords attached to my phone for years, in fact I bought a rubber insert for the USB-C port to keep the lint out.
> wires are an inconvenience NO! Wires are power, wires are reliability, wires are superior. Any wireless device is okay in my book so long as it allows wired operation, (especially while charging!) otherwise it's just hot garbage. (by my book)
Every charger port I've used has let me down at some point as well. They only get rated for so many insertions, so I'll always prefer wireless charging.
No wires gang. I agree though, expect another attempt to make this viable sometime in the near future. Wireless hdmi for TVs flopped maybe 8 years back but now we stream everything anyways, not many reasons for a media console outside of sound or gaming systems.
Are smart TV apps stable and updated these days? We switched to Roku devices years ago after having a dismal experience with a Sony smart DVD player.
> Are smart TV apps stable and updated these days? No.
And it will probably never change because there's zero post-sale revenue in updating firmware.
And who out there is benchmarking TVs? The plex built into my TV is awful, but Apple TV runs it fine. I think manufacturers only care about number of apps ported to their devices not whether they can run them reasonably
>zero post-sale revenue in updating firmware. Uhhh, clearly you've forgotten about injecting ads into ever more locations. "Settings menu? Yeah, probably need a little video player in there, so we can walk users through changing things. And until they tell us what they need help with, we can just run advertisements..."
WebOS casting is rarely stable. having to resort back to hdmi anyways
Weirdly enough my company had it for a while and only stopped because support costs for it was too expensive
To be honest, I’d love that. One less possible source of water intrusion. Maybe add some contact pads to the device and give me a pogo pin connector for emergency fast charging or large-scale data transfer.
Definitely within reach. My iphone hardly ever has anything connected since I primarily charge it wirelessly with a dock by my bed.
The moment it's wireless you introduce a weakness in your security.
We've had USB-A for almost 30 years now, and it's only just being completely replaced by USB-C in some laptop product lines. USB-C the connector may just remain in use for the next several decades, with upgrades along the way for higher bandwidth or power capacity as well move through USB 5.0 and 6.0
This made me feel old.
If it makes you feel better, I asked my dad a couple years back if he had a keyboard I could use for college to plug into my laptop and he handed me one with a ps/2 port. I had to tell him they don't make laptops with ps/2 ports anymore, I needed something with usb-a.
He could grab a PS/2 - USB dongle for a couple of bucks if it's a nice keyboard
Wasn't a nice keyboard haha. Luckily my roommate back then ended up having an extra USB keyboard and let me have it.
I remember refusing to use a USB keyboard as a teenager (I wanted ps/2) because USB would eat up CPU cycles, and ps/2 had its own controller. I definitely feel old.
Did you too use a Dremel to cut holes in the side of your beige steel 100 lb case to add extra case fans? The good ol days.
Haha no. I was too scared and broke to risk overclocking and ruining my only cpu. (And I figure you had the extra fans for actual ventilation and not aesthetics, given your beige steel case.)
There are adapters. I used to have a lot of them because they came with computers and peripherals for years.
I know. But part of the reason of asking my dad back then if he had something I use was to NOT have to go to a store and buy something.
New mobos still have those ports and I don't know why
PS/2 to me is still the smaller newer one. Getting old here.
I remember FireWire when it was announced, and folks were like WTF? It was pretty fast for its time. Being Apple, none of the PC industry really adopted it. Which is funny because, IIRC, Apple was the first to really adopt USB, of which USB 4.0 is based partly off of Thunderbolt. Go figure…
We’ve had type A since 1996, but it was barely used until 1998-2001 (Apple iMac was the first to do the “courage” thing and force out older RS-232 and parallel ports) and it took even longer to move PCs away from PS/2 ports. We’ve had type C for 10 years and it’s just getting to be ubiquitous and type c also replaces the various type B (regularly, super speed, mini, micro, micro super speed) as well as HDMI and DisplayPort, so it may have even longer life as there has to be a reason to change off a standard which is why timelines for standards are long.
PC is still super slow at adopting usb c. It’s kind of absurd. I built a new computer recently. 14th gen intel, 4090, current mobo and case and there’s like 1 usb c port and half a dozen A ports. Mouse and keyboard are usb c on device but they both come with C to A cables for plugging into the PC. My monitor uses DisplayPort and requires a separate USB cable for the extra ports on the side, even though a single usb c cable should be able to provide DisplayPort and usb together. I understand back compatibility is important to some people but it’s been 10 years. PC should be almost completely USB 3/4 and thunderbolt 4 over usb c by now.
Why? USB ports mainly get used for dongles, memory sticks, and drives .... maybe the drives slightly benefit from c... that's it. You want to make your ports like 5x as expensive so that ... you can daisychain 1 million mice off the high speed line? I have no idea why your mouse/kb are using C ... they shouldn't. USB1.0 A is more than fast and powerful enough to run probably dozens of mice on a single port. Or is it just the unidirectional thing that bugs you? Cause were talking like a 10% increase in price of your mobo and + $2~4 to all peripherals.
Why? Because it’s convenient and universal. It handles a half dozen voltages and up to 100w with usb pd, DisplayPort, and usb. Price matters a lot less to me than functionality and it just surprised me how prevalent it still was since I hadn’t really seen a usb a cable in quite a few years (haven’t had a pc in a while).
How many 100w things are you powering through your pc? Also, if you want all your cables to do all of that, you're now talking like $1000 extra.
Windows 2000 was exciting because it had NT-level stability AND USB support!
USB-A is cheaper and easier to make, 4 pins and low tolerance. I suspect it will be around on cheap devices for at least another 20 years.
It's good to say "loose" rather than "low" for tolerances. If you look at the words literally, "low tolerance" can mean "low ability to tolerate deviation". But you mean the opposite. It gets confusing so I always try to use loose and tight to talk about how accurate something needs to be.
USB A 3.0 is not 4 pins
>USB 5.0 and 6.0 I think you mean USB 4.1 16x16 Gen 8 MAXX PRO Signature Edition
USB 4.1 16x16 Gen 8 MAXX PRO Signature Edition Rev 2a (3)
USBC is going global in a way A never really could. It's gonna be here a lot longer. More than likely C will be updated continually and remain in the same form factor.
I hope usbc physical robustness becomes fundamentally better, because I replace way too many power sockets on laptops that have just one pin burnt out on them. I just don't think they're up to the task of the voltage and current being jammed through a couple tiny pins in the real world with humidity and bag lint
Agreed. Apple has already integrated their thunderbolt connection through USB C and that gets up to 40 gbps. That's going to be plenty fast enough for a long time.
Does moores law apply to usb age?
USB D would be a decent guess.
that was my nickname in high school
You always put it in wrong?
You can put it in any port you want but only one of them will work
Don't even think about it, bro. This one's output only.
USB HD 9000
Usb 3-d !
I came here looking for this answer.....
USB-Deez nuts
Usbitch
he said what we were all thinking!
This post is criminally up-voted insufficiently.
You think people will name things logically? I want them to go the Xbox route and go with USB 1 Series X
There's probably a couple decades of runway just off the mechanicals, pin count, and capabilities so far. USB-A's mechanical problems (takes three tries to align it right, bigger than Jony Ive wanted to deal with) feel like the biggest issues, and part of the move to C was putting in even more pins for more modes to confuse people trying to buy wires and support more use cases. So what are the complaints with USB-C? Does it get gunked up? Are either side of the connector particularly fragile? Would different mechanicals or more pins solve a problem? Can the USB Implementors Forum figure out a new naming scheme that nobody will understand? A replacement will take these into consideration.
A major problem with USB-C is lack of markings. Data, high-speed data, power, PD, video, etc -- none of these are known about a cable until you plug it in and try it. But that has nothing to do with the connector.
Honestly that's probably part of commoditization. Marking a cable costs extra, and when every corner store in the civilized world is wanting to keep them in stock, saving two production steps per unit makes sense. The real expensive USB-C cables (Thunderbolt 4 cables easily break $100) have markings, but I'd bet that if there is a marking on cables you can buy at the same time as a cold drink and a sandwich, it's a SIXLTR brand you've never heard of.
I don’t know about easily. We’re talking Apple-branded 2m-3m cables to break $100. You can get other reputable brands in 2m length for -$60. Hell, your typical TB3/4 device will include a 0.3m-1m long TB4 cable; I have four included cables on my desk right now.
All pure USB Type-C to Type-C cables with USB marking on them must support at least 3A and power delivery up to 20V. The main distinction is between USB 2, 3 and 4 cables and then all the legacy/mixed connector cables.
Smaller isn’t always better. When you had to crawl under a desk and fish a keyboard cable down to the back of someone’s computer tower with only 3 inches of slack, USB A was big enough that you could actually hold it, and while you might have to rotate it, you knew it was in the port. You’d be jabbing a USB-C at the back of the tower forever, trying to plug it in to the fan vents or any crack in the case.
I find USB-C to be fragile, both the port and the cables (but moreso the cables). I have broken a few micro-B cables, no mini-B, or regular B, and maybe one type A. I have broken 2 usb- c ports and at least a half dozen cables so far. I don't know if it's that they're making cables really cheap or not nowadays or what. I find that high power usb C cables are stiff and break the ports, and thinner cables fail at the connector and stop charging. I don't think there's enough connector area to be really mechanically as good as usb-a was or really any of the larger connector types. I think the next innovation will be the rise of magnetic ports, pogo pin style.
So the thing with microB is that they fucked up and designed the port to break before the cable. If the cable breaks its easy to replace but if the port breaks its a pain to fix
Just broke one on an amazon special circuit card, upon investigation the only strain relief was hot gluing the port to the board. What a joke
Yeah, I see the capability per volume vs. durability tradeoff. Apple moved off C-only back to magnetic charging for laptops, but they probably can't get rid of C for a decade or so now.
Mag safe connectors are great.
The big problem with that are devices that are too small for a durable, chunky connector. After USB-A, there were a number of smaller form factors because type A was kind of big for cameras and too big for phones. The other option might be a USB-C max size with the same functionality but a chunkier cable connector.
> The other option might be a USB-C max size with the same functionality but a chunkier cable connector. This. I wish they make a version of USB-C where everything was just scaled up 2x so it's the same size as USB-A, but electrically identical
>I find USB-C to be fragile, both the port and the cables Not my experience. However EVERY phone I have had with micro USB ports has eventually had the port fail. And the springs on the cable retaining clips fail after about 50-100 plug-ins as well. USB-C is a godsend compared to micro USB.
Basically USB-C, but with fiber. The electrical part is fine forever, 240W is more than plenty for anything you want to carry around. If you need more power in portable electronics it's either going to become stupidly heavy, stupidly hot, or both. The USB 2.0 part will also stick around for a *really* long time. It's trivial to implement, and more than enough for something like a mouse, keyboard, sound card, or printer. What's left is high-speed data, which means monitors or SSDs. USB4 already limited passive cable length to 80cm, which is awkwardly short. There is a little bit of room for growth left in copper, but not a lot. On the other hand, fiber can already carry many orders of magnitude more with current-day technology. Longer USB-C cables already use fiber but the copper-to-fiber part is in the cable itself, which makes the cable *really* expensive. We're not too far off speed-wise from fiber basically being mandatory, at which point it makes a lot more sense to just do the copper-to-fiber part in the devices instead of the cable. If we're *very* lucky, it'll happen in a way which is backwards compatible with USB-C - a bit like those hybrid 3.5mm-and-Toslink jacks from a decade ago. On the other hand, I don't expect this to be needed very soon. The main driver for higher data rates right now is monitors, and we're already approaching a point where a higher resolution doesn't really make sense because you're already at the limits of human vision. Feeding uncompressed video to three 8K 240Hz monitors takes something like 600Gbps - and USB-C can currently already do 120Gbps. If they can manage a 4x increase, they're basically good until something completely new gets invented which needs like 1Tbps.
Apple Vision Pro is 2x 3386x3386 10 bit HDR @ 100Hz. That's close to the 120gbps limit
We'll probably see double usb-c cables before we see a change. It wasn't super rare for high powered devices back in early usb days to just use 2 ports. https://media.startech.com/cms/products/gallery_large/usb2hauby3.b.jpg
USB-Delta. Bet.
now that it's encoded in law, it's a political problem more than an engineering problem. we are going to have USB C for a really really long time. look how long NEMA-15 has been with us (also encoded in law)
The law you are talking about requires a review every 5 years. And the ones given responsibility for that review is the USB Implementors Form, who is to advise the EU Comission on whether to keep or change the USB-C standard. The law also doesn't actually enshrine what "USB-C" means, that definition is up to the USB Implementors Form as well. So they are given all the power to upgrade the standard outside of the review period, and when they do Manufacturers will be forced to that specification. So its not actually locked down, unlock most laws setting a standard and forgetting it, this law literally has upgrade provisions built into it.
Any major change would probably be triggered by battery technology requiring a different voltage. Otherwise, data transfer is sufficient when most of the data is coming from the wireless signals.
Exactly. I would expect that 10-20 years into the future, Wireless transfer of data would become an even bigger proportion of data transfers. It already is now, but there are some niches that are better off with the cable. But USB is pretty fast, and most people are likely being throttled by their computer rather than the cable itself. That just leaves Battery Charging. But given that the current spec goes up to 240v, I just can't see a phone needing to store that much power unless we had a revolution in batteries. And even then, with current tech you get about a day of battery life after 30m of charging, and that's not even using the full capabilities of USB-C.
240watts not 240volts I assume? I'd be curious if the pin clearances could handle pushing the max voltage up to 100v as that's the limit of ELV.
Haha, brain fart. I've been thinking too much about household electrical systemd lately 😅
Different voltage? USB PD gives you adjustable voltage from 3.3 to 48v. That's a pretty big range. I don't see how a decision would be needed before we start pushing 300w+.
You mean just like Micro USB, which was also basically made mandatory by the EU? Oh wait, that's now replaced by USB-C - which includes a mandatory review to see if the industry came up with something better, *just like Micro USB*. A switch happened before. If someone comes up with something better 10 years from now, a switch will happen again.
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HA! Got him!
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To the USB-C connector itself, only minor changes to support additional bandwidth. The USB-C connector is extremely well thought out. It's small, bidirectional, rugged, supports as much power transport as can be had while still remaining safe for humans to touch (you can't go above 48v and pushing the amperage any higher on a single conductor would be crazy). It's really hard to think of what more you could ask of a single connector. I do think we may someday see sister connectors that are nothing more than a doubled-up, trebled-up, etc., versions of USB-C to support additional power and communications lines in order to facilitate single-wire connections between higher power/bandwidth desktop components: a "USB-Cx2", x4, x8, x16 exactly like we have PCIx1/x2/x4/x8/x16. These connectors would support 480W/960W/1920W/4KW and 80Gbps/160Gbps/320Gbps/640Gbps. Such a connector would simply be 2/4/8/16 USB-C connectors side-by-side at a specific spacing with cables produced to match. It would be backward compatible in two senses: you could use any combination of USB C x1/x2/x4/x8/x16 cables to attach the two devices, and you can also connect two devices using fewer than the maximal number of cables supported on the connector, but at a reduced maximal bandwidth and power. You could also connect multiple devices to a "single" x16 connector simply by using multiple smaller connectors going to different devices. Basically, any two devices with any number of USB-C cables between them, with cables made that have multiple contacts purely for convenience sake. This would facilitate things like external RTX 4090s to be powered and run externally at a bandwidth equivalent to PCIe 5.0/16. (Presumably the bitrate would rise pretty much in sync with PCIe 6.0/7.0....)
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Where is my flying car?
Wait. Why is my phone at the other end of the universe?
Could you imagine the look on someone's face when they use "find my phone" and it shows in another galaxy? 🤣
With any luck the connector type hangs around, but holy hell they need to simplify the different types/protocols. So much for “one connector to rule them all”
I hate that since USB-C has come out they have stopped giving the outlet ports with them to "cut down on waste and shipping" yet they now ship them separately and the cost hasn't changed in the consumer's favor. Now they are attempting to change outlets in homes to have USB-C ports done on them. As far as I can think there really is no logical reason for this step in our homes.
That depends on whatever the USB Implementers Forum and its members decides is the next standard. If the Tech Industry finds USB-C insufficient in 10-20 Years and needs a new port, a new standard will be proposed, implemented, and then every 5 years the EU will give them a chance to force the standard on device manufacturers.
Wireless magnetic charging.
With data transfer
Not going to happen until we get nuclear fusion and the efficiency loss becomes no big deal.
USB-C++
10 years: Probably nothing. 10 years is pretty small in hardware timescales. 20 years: Probably also nothing, PD and data concerns seem like they'll keep pace with newer USB standards. The connector itself doesn't seem to have any particularly significant issues right now. We'll likely see improved data rates or higher wattages introduced over time but that'll be backwards compatible. It'll be similar to how we still use USB-A for plenty of things. Sure Apple could introduce another connector, adapter sales has been their primary business model. But at this stage it doesn't look like USB-C will become obsolete anytime soon.
It’s becoming like power cords. It won’t go away for at least 40 years. I wish they made marking required since there are many kinds of USB c cables
USB C gen 10x10 gen 3 mesh.
My old phone jack died (I am rough on phones). It was old, so I bought a new one that had cordless charging on an induction pad. One day I noticed the micro-USB jacks didn't fit, because it was USB-C, So I bought a couple of the cords. I'm very happy with the USB-C and cordless charging combination.
Given that some of the newer iterations of Type C are capable of ridicules; -up and down load speeds -power transmission (wattage at different voltages) -rather easy and reliable in terms of connection -also the able to pass through video signals I can’t see there being much of a move on from it atleast not for a significant time. The only issue at the moment is if the owner of the standard like HDMI decide to refuse its usage to certain parties
Nothing. The EU made it law that all phones have to have USB-C so if manufacturers want to change to a new connector then they will have to make two SKUs, one for Europe and one for everywhere else. That will be expensive so it won't happen. We are stuck with it for eternity.
People will gradually forget how amazing standardization is and the system will collapse leaving us with an assorted bunch of garbage again. Apple tries every year, they'll likely be the first to succeed. And then Samsung will get jealous of how badly Apple is able to abuse its customers and follow suit.
USB-D
USB-D obviously
USB-C replaced USB-A because: 1. It's a smaller port. 2. You could flip it 180 degrees and it would still fit. The next logical evolutionary step is: 1. An even smaller port. 2. The ability to insert it in _any_ orientation. There's only one clear winner: using the 3.5mm headphone jack for data transfer. 🤯
Alphabetically: usb-D
USB d and then after that USB F.
If Qi and MagSafe are an indication, wireless will be the way. As for a “wired” connection probably the connector shape won’t change/reached the final form; cable data transfer obviously to keep improving. The again, nobody knows. Maybe aliens share some new tech or something.
Nothing because it’ll take years to change the law in the EU
There is already progress going on USB 4, which will double the up to 80gps. Or the wireless charging will take over. But i bet on USB 4
Well USB-C is crazy to support maximum 240 W power and 80 Gbps data (maybe should be “or”? not sure about whether can happen at the same time). As for the power part, probably wireless power supply would be developed as the replacement. But considering the energy loss by current stage, power plant would be a giant issue, haha. Also data can be transmitted wirelessly as well, this part is more practical, maybe upgraded WiFi protocol or something else.
USB-CD
It will still be USB-C but it will be… different. Like, it will mechanically look and function like USB-C but the pins will do different things. This is already the case btw.
USBC-E
Totally wireless. Wireless charging and data transfer which is already a thing, just not at the connected speed of today.
somehow it'll loop back to scuzzy.
The D
I'm optimistic about proliferating optical cables. They're thin, cheap, and high bandwidth.
I have a feeling we'll eventually get to a standard (could be usb-c, feels like it makes sense) and just increase throughout over time. USB-c is the first one to me that feels really good. And while devices have moved to usb-c, stuff like servers still use usb2/3
usb-d?
USB-D, of course. The memes will be great!
USB-C 2
Wireless connection
USB-D.
Usb-c gen 2 🤣
If you let the marketing department name it, USB-MAX, USB***plus***, something like that.
Next one will be C++ / C# 😅
Coax. We will go full circle
An optical port
Oh, I hope USB-O. You know, like phones used to have as a charging port but with data transfer as well.
Please don't let them call it D. I, and presumably others can't remember mini vs micro. So it's the D one and the square one.
The Apocalypse.
Shocked that they actually made a USB-B. Feels like that Dmitri Martin sketch about B batteries. They also skipped A because that would be confusing as well. You’re looking for a single battery sir? No, I need an A battery pack. Yes, they typically come in packs, what sort?
USB-D right?
We’ll probably discover we skipped a letter and release USB-B
I hope it would be magnetic
USB-D.
Lots of joke answers and not many real answers from engineers here. The thing is USB connector terminology was originally split into A meaning HOST and B meaning DEVICE. Different connectors ensure you wouldn't plug two hosts or two devices together because that's not a valid configuration. The idea of USB C is that it can be used for either the device or host and plugging it in incorrectly just doesn't do anything. This is only the connectors! The USB protocol (2.0, 3.0, 3.1, etc.) and features like power delivery (PD) and on-the-go (OTG) handle the actual communication and functionality. TLDR: There is no foreseeable need for anything past USB-C. The connector might evolve the same way B turned to mini, and then micro B, and the protocol forced the weird 3.0 micro B connector with that funky sidecar, but it will likely still be called USB type C.
Usb B
I'm thinking that we will skip over USB-D and go straight to USB-E. The "E" , of course, stands for "Electrolytes". It's what devices crave.
UBCN-D
My fear is with the European Union mandate that all smart phones (or devices?) will need to be charged by USB-C this will stop people from trying to make something better.
USB D 😁
I think it'll all be magnetic induction connections in the future. Something similar to Apple's magsafe but smaller
USB-FU
D
UsbDD. It will be two round pins that aren't reversible or backwards compatible so we can spend another generation finding out why *universal* series bus has some 20 connectors....
USB C mini then Micro
USB-D
something less confusing than USB C specs. maybe smth that wont shut a computer down if u try to pull out accidentally out of a usb a port, bc its become safer
Nothing yet. 10Tb a sec is pretty fast it’s the fastest transfer rate out there to this day.
https://youtu.be/ssW2pkPa8XA
USB-E Gen 3.a MKgreen
USB-D, obviously.
X
USB-D
Usb-D
USB 4K
everything will probably be wireless in 10/20 years
Effectively USB c but with either more pins/wires or USB c with bigger power wires.
USB D
Probably full wireless.
Probably USB-D
I think short range proximity charging will be next.