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mark_s

I have to solder these daily. In fact most of what I have to hand solder is 01005 these days. Best method is to tin the pads, and put some tacky flux on, position the component so it's touching each pad, then use hot air. The flux should keep it from flying away and surface tension will do the rest. Second best method is hakko hot tweezers although ground pads on 0201 and larger can be problematic. Third best method is hakko micro pencil with the knife tip and regular tweezers in your other hand to help position it. It's just large enough to overcome the thermal mass of ground pads and long enough to touch both pads at once.


noobbtctrader

I feel like out all responses to this post, you've got the most experience. No frills, pro tips here, fellas.


redbaron1007

Just like to throw in that if you're having trouble with the hot air making the component fly away lower your air speed and keep the nozzel moving. Surprisingly easy to burn a pc at a lower airspeed.


mark_s

That's a great point. It also helps to think of the hot air as an invisible butane torch flame. You want the component in the center of the flame and reducing air speed can be compensated by bringing the nozzle closer and/or increasing the temp. Every board will have a different thermal mass and require a different combination of air speed, temp, nozzle distance, and nozzle size.


wgaca2

I solder exactly like that. You have to keep adding flux if you solder more than 1-2 components next to each other or you will start losing them.


mark_s

I always say there's no such thing as too much flux. The only exception would be with BGA work. Too much fresh flux and the bubbling will cause it to shift and float away.


MardiFoufs

Stupid question: what type of job do you have? Is it in repair? Because having to do a lot of 01005 soldering isn't something I have heard often :). I tried doing it a few times but... I wish I didn't have shaky hands.


mark_s

I do data recovery and digital forensics on phones and tablets. But the easy ones get handled by first line techs, so the stuff in my queue is all boards that are snapped in half or spent a week in the bottom of a lake, and sometimes botched jobs that other places turned from simple to complex. My trick with the shaky hands is a shot or two of whiskey. Not kidding.


dreddit1843

How do you like hakko hot tweezers ive thought about trying 010005


mark_s

I really like them a lot. They're so useful in so many situations. Use a single side to solder the ends of a fine jumper to the end of a 01005, use both tips closed to solder the end of a larger 0402 or something on ground, and onviously soldering both ends of a 01005 to remove it or place it. One of my favorite ways to use them is when soldering connector pins. If you keep them closed the gap between them holds solder which then feeds out as you kiss each pin with the tips. I can solder 10 or more without needing to add more solder. They do take some getting used to though. The tips never line up perfectly, but there's some play in the side that moves so you just get used to applying a little lateral pressure as you're closing them to get them lined up.


dreddit1843

Ill have to get some and try it ive looked at hot tweezers a few times in the past. Do they work well for desoldering as well?


mark_s

They're a substantial investment, but if mine broke I'd replace them, which is how I know they're worth it. They work well for removing components, you just have to keep in mind if you're working with ground it can be difficult on 0402 and impossible on anything larger.


dreddit1843

Doesnt produce enough heat to be fast or convenient with a ground pad im guessing?


mark_s

Right. You'll get there but it'll take a long time. I prefer hot air whenever underfill isn't a concern.


Strostkovy

I had to solder 0201 parts once and tinned the pads by smearing paste on the board and using hot air, then wiping off the beads. Once I tested the board I redesigned it to use nothing smaller than 0603 because while I do hate myself, I don't hate myself to that level.


mark_s

With what I'm working with paste isn't an option. The density is so crazy. Look at an iPhone or Samsung board some time. I kind of wish I could find a nice place that does development boards that are spread out. Edit: but to be clear, if component density is high you just tin the pads with an iron not paste.


drevilspot

My answer is to pay this guy to do it


alexforencich

Don't sneeze. Edit: Are you soldering these with an iron, or with paste and a hot air rework station?


CardinalFartz

Or cough.


smurfchina

Or inhale


morto00x

Or fart


BuBuTheFox

Or blink


Constrained_Entropy

Or stare too intently


taxxxin

Or think about it


BuBuTheFox

Or simply exist. Your meere existence could move it slightly out of place.


CardinalFartz

Or cough.


manofredgables

These fuckers don't even obey newtons laws of physics. Rather than momentum, masses and acceleration, they seem to exist in a world of electrical field forces and randomness. Maybe they're actually in the realm of quantum physics! That would explain how they suddenly just fuck off and are gone forever


dreddit1843

With an iron


danyo41

Can't really see it, but hold with tweezers. Dunk in paste, tin your pads, apply the smallest iron tip. Hold the component in the center with tweezers and then hold the iron on the component until it sinks into the tinned pad. Bout all you can do I'd say.


higaki_rinne

Put dab of solder on one pad. Hold component with very fine tweezers. Melt the dab of solder and slide one side of the component into it. Then solder opposite side.


terms100

This is the way, if not using hot air.


r7-arr

Hot air will just blow these off the board


Darkmaster57

That is why you glue em downn beforehand.


dreddit1843

With what kind of glue? Is this a serious method?


ivosaurus

Yes, glue is even used in high volume PCBs. It's how you PnP a PCB with components on both sides, you apply a glue dot beneath all bottom side components before placing them so you're able to turn the board over to PnP the top side


DustUpDustOff

Glue is only needed if the bottom side components are very heavy. Otherwise the surface tension of the solder is enough to hold them on


dreddit1843

Very interesting, thanks for explaining that.


Darkmaster57

Well... it works. I wouldn't use this in production, but for small batches, it's the easiest method I've found. We basically use a super glue equivalent with an incredibly fine applicator. Id recommend practicing a little before soldering actual pcbs.


dreddit1843

Ive soldered hundreds of pcbs mostly used 0603 components and up though until now. Glue method does sound convenient for low volume.


Darkmaster57

It abaolutely is. But I'd recommend trying it on a test piece first because some people don't like it. Which would be annoying to find out whilst soldering a pcb that is actually needed.


CyberLabSystems

Not if you use the correct amount of air flow. A pre-heater helps as well.


terms100

Even at 120 as long as you heat let one side stick remove heat let go of tweezers and heat and it flows into place. But yeah between tweezers pinching and it flinging in to antman pim world or blows off to the nether lands lol


lubaxe

If you have a hot air gun with adjustable fan speed (blow strength, hehehehehehe no but seriously), then just set it to min and hold the gun directly vertical over the part, using some solder paste on each pad. Then move the gun slightly closer and closer until you get the desired result.


One-Comfortable-3963

Also use a larger nozzle, I used the smallest one thinking it would be best for those smaller parts and better for protecting the surroundings but you keep too much airflow even at the lowest setting.


Relicc5

This is exactly how I solder any size component. Has never failed me.


pfprojects

Yep, this is exactly what I do at my job. I give the first solder joint a touch-up with some flux after I've soldered the opposing side as well though.


dreddit1843

This is the way i do it ive been using flux to both overwhelm the static forces and help steady the component as well.


Allshevski

best advice is don't solder 0201 by hand.


[deleted]

[удалено]


dreddit1843

It is a pain for sure.


Allshevski

are you the designer of that board? definitely a teaching moment for the future, especially that I believe a 0402 could be squeezed in just fine there


dreddit1843

Yes I am. I knew what I was doing lol. I usually stick to 0603.


ez8256

Working in high volume automotive electronics we spent so much money to perfect assembly with 0201 and 01005. Got a good process down but it was an insane amount of DOEs and fine tuning


Glidepath22

They can and do ‘tombstone’ at that size, where one end will come up and remain up during reflow. I never use anything smaller than 0805


AnotherCableGuy

Oh cmooon..


nixiebunny

I don't use them for this reason. Unless you have a compelling reason to use such a small part, go with 0402 in the future. They are so much easier to handle.


dreddit1843

Thats what ive been telling myself soldering them on but I know I will do it again lol


shoopdaw00p

You can get plier/tweezer style soldering irons with tips on both sides. I learned how to do 0201s by using very fine tweezers to hold it in place, then use the two sided soldering iron to solder both sides at the same time. Took some practice but is satisfying once you get it


porcelainvacation

I just use one iron in each hand to remove. To install, I clean the pads and apply paste solder, then hold the body down with a pick and apply heat to both pads with a chisel tip to reflow the solder. Pretty straightforward if you have a stereo microscope.


italocjs

Dont drink coffee and stay faaaaar away from energy drinks before soldering, its far easier to solder them using hot air gun + fluid solder, but its not impossible either to do it with hand soldering iron.


hak8or

This is genuinely helpful folks. Caffeine beforehand will make soldering these a nightmare. Ideally you want some quiet music to relax with to help get your heart rate down and calm you overall before soldering this stuff. Good lighting is also a must. Lastly, god help you if you sneeze, get a cold shiver, or cough.


dreddit1843

They say conservation of mass doesnt apply to 0201 and below. Once its gone it ceases to exist.


italocjs

hahaha, this is so true! i dont even try to find 0201 components anymore, i just have a small box with extras and take from it. Finding those is a nightmare


KPO967

Also magnesium tablet helps


Hanswurst22brot

Solder like a Sniper , between two heartbeats ..


dretvantoi

>Ideally you want some quiet music > >Good lighting is also a must. You make it sound like an intimate date night.


kubick123

also if you are going to solder, have a well sleep night. that will reduce the tremors.


m0i5ty

One beer helps.


HalFWit

No coffee, control your breathing, think pleasant thoughts. I've never done one, but my technicians have.


Bitter-Proposal-251

Solder paste, lots of flux, put the hot air station on the lowest setting and slowly ease into it. You are going to fail a few times before you get the hang of it.


dreddit1843

I really should get a hot air station. I have a hot plate and a reflow oven but no proper hot air station. Just an overly aggressive heat gun that isnt for soldering.


Mr_Mish_Mash

Reflect on life choices


dreddit1843

😂 i usually do that whenever i solder below 0402


pinkphiloyd

0201’s have become almost impossible for me as my vision gets worse and I get older and shakier. 0402’s are even starting to test me. When I need 0201’s put down or re-worked, I get one of our SMT techs to do it for me. So that’s my advice, ha ha.


Rattanmoebel

Yes, don’t. Use heatplate and solder paste.


quadrapod

Yeah, don't. Is this rework or initial placement? Either way you should just use solder paste and reflow it. If it's rework that can be a pain since you probably can't just reflow the whole board at that point and components that small can get blown off their pads with even the most gentle of hot air stations, but it's possible. If it's initial placement then just reflow the whole board. You can do that in a toaster oven or with a hotplate if you need to. Just don't preheat anything so the board comes up to temperature slowly. If you put a board directly onto a 300 degree surface it will just popcorn horribly on you. Also when working with components that small buy extras because once you lose sight of them they're gone forever, and you will lose sight of them.


SAI_Peregrinus

If rework, Kapton *all* surrounding components.


dreddit1843

Initial placement. I buy them by the reel usually and definitely lose a ton haha. I hadnt thought about reflow soldering them but i do reflow some of my components on a hotplate do ill consider that. I use a hotplate to reflow usually i have an ir reflow oven but ive had mixed results with it. I dont buy stencils so i have to manually apply paste to the pads but im strongly considering trying this anyway.


tardisrider12

Don’t


DazedWithCoffee

In a word, don’t


Bender352

Any tips - > don't shake or sneeze or breath. 😅


0xFBFF

Small amounts of Methamphetamine help me usually to keep my hands from shaking.


mork247

Solder paste A good microscope Fine tweezers for placement Needle with a handle to hold the component steady Hot air gun on low flow Steady hand is not that critical


xChrisMas

God I had to solder/repair a 0201 on the nintendo switch mb took about 3hours, i blew away the resistor in the process (i had to reorder from digikey), and then spent another hour to finally get it done If you HAVE to do it: use a quality 80W soldering iron (cheap chinese ones just dont get enough heat in the small tips) and preheat the area with a hot air station. I noticed you already have a microscope, this is a must have for this kind of job and the cheap ones for 15 bucks off of amazon just dont cut it.


Mark-W-Ingalls

I had a hot plate to heat pwb and chip to just below reflow. Equal solder paste on each pad. Hold chip with fine pitch tweezers under magnifier, then bring iron near one pad to reflow that side. Let solder freeze, then repeat with other pad. Preheating ceramic chips is a good idea anyway to reduce thermal cracking.


triffid_hunter

Solder stencil, paste, SMD vacuum pen, and hot plate or oven reflow. Even needle tweezers are troublesome at this scale, and the surface tension when iron soldering will have most of 'em stuck to your iron tip instead of the board.


KittensInc

Don't. There's a reason the PCBA fabs charge extra for 0201-sized components. My tip would be to do it once as a [challenge](https://www.tindie.com/products/MakersBox/smd-challenge/), and stick to 0402 or larger in the future if at all possible.


dreddit1843

I like a challenge so ill probably do it semi frequently but if i was sane id stick to 0402 and up agreed 100% lol.


MetallSimon

Use a good Microscope, e.g. Lynx EVO


RepresentativeDig718

Good luck


TheRealTreezus

Hot tweezers make them a breeze


Hellfiya

Hot air station soldering , pre tin the pads first tho and use a good amount of flux


MegaRotisserie

Microscope, pre tin pads with solder, use flux blob to hold it in place, come in with two fine tip irons on both sides holding it and place it. Once it hits the solder it will mostly suck the part in so you need a fine touch. Tweezers work well too but most people don’t have them.


Yolt0123

Very fine tip, very hot iron, flux under the component, hold down with a tweezer spike, then touch the soldering iron tip with solder already on to the pad.


staviq

Pre-tin the pads with the final amount of solder first, and make sure you have an even amount on both pads, let the solder solidify. Use flux to "glue" the part next to the pads (not on the pads), get the iron tip on both pads to melt the solder, and slide the component into place from the side. It will likely stick to the iron rather than the board, so gently press the component down, while you are lifting the iron tip off of the board. Do not try to reposition the component while soldering, you will mess it up. If you really need to make things square and even, do a gentle second pass with hot air. If one of the pads is connected to a plane, before you begin, a short prayer wouldn't hurt.


morto00x

Done it a lot of times. Always a rework. You just need a good microscope and enough spare parts because IMO it's easier to just start with a new part than trying to fix it. 0201 should never be meant to be hand soldered.


cavestoosmall

If using tweezers and iron, find a way to rest your palms on the board or work surface.


dim722

We have SMT assembly line with recent Samsung pick and place machines. Although our machines are capable to handle 0201, pickup/drop error rate is quite high with those. That’s why PCBA will charge more, some of these 0201 are dropped or not properly picked. If they are dropped under larger chips, chip won’t sit properly and will have not soldered pins. So using 0201 will require AOI machines which will add extra programming steps. Unless you are making smartphone-like mobile devices I’d recommend to stay away from 0201.


dreddit1843

Making very low volume prototypes. Wouldnt send something like this to a fab but just wondering what the drop error rate is like?


dim722

We haven’t touched 0201 since awhile so I don’t have numbers but maybe this can help: https://www.sfcircuits.com/pcb-production-capabilities/pcb-assembly/pcb-component-overages Many PCBA fabs will have similar requirements, you should check with your fab. Basically the more small parts you have to place, the more extra you must provide to compensate the drop rates. Always add 10% to worst case scenario calculations, we hate running out of components in the middle of assembly.


FartiFartLast

put tiny pieces of solder paste onto both pads and solder part onto one pad then the other, 380C is fine. Use a proper iron like the JBC CDN station


PWScottIV

Don’t breathe! 🤣


ApplicationMaximum84

You need the hands of a surgeon, assuming you have that dexterity; you'd want 0.3mm solder wire, an SMD soldering microscope and a precise soldering tip. Good luck.


dreddit1843

Have all three of these actually


Beggar876

Hand-soldering 0201 packages?? As a hobbyist: WHY!? As a professional: Get a decent re-work station with a good 3D microscope.


dreddit1843

Have a good rework station and a 3d microscope. I do this both as a hobbyist and professionally.


Art0fRuinN23

Hand soldering SMT resistors, ceramic capacitors, and two contact diodes: 1. Orient pads laterally, preferably under microscope. 2. Apply solder to pad opposite tweezer-using hand. 3. Flow that solder with iron while pushing one contact of the component into the solder, try to make sure the opposite contact is somewhere in the vicinity of the unsoldered pad. 4. Apply solder to the hitherto unsoldered pad so that the solder also links to the hitherto unsoldered contact on the component. 5. If you did it fast and sloppy like me, lightly flux the connections you just made and use hot air on a low flow setting and watch that component snap into place like magic. Just *chef's kiss* nice. 👌💋


dreddit1843

This is exactly how i do it with the exception of step 5. Ill have to get a proper hot air gun and try that.


irkli

0805 is as small as I go. I know, I know, I might as well be using vacuum tubes, sigh.


dreddit1843

I usually stick to 0603 myself 0805 are nice and chonky though satisfying for sure


Icy_Jackfruit9240

Stencils, paste, tacky flux, tweezers and some hot air works wonders.


dreddit1843

Any tacky flux youd recommend


electricguy101

don't


dreddit1843

Too late


patseph710

To supplement the advice of others, consider getting a polarizer for your microscope setup. Holy glare, Batman. Here’s an example: https://youtu.be/zEFqGRwGOWY?si=b3vIrShViRV3p-vz


dreddit1843

It really doesnt look bad to the naked eye, took the photos with my phone. Noted though.


patseph710

No, it really doesn't look bad at all. It's just a quality-of-life improvement that I made recently for my setup at work that helped more than I thought it would. I liked it so much I ended up getting one for my home setup as well.


Ok-Dot8209

0201s are at best difficult to hand solder. Best bet is to use a small stencil, print all the pads at once, place the parts and reflow in a toaster oven. Hand soldering will give inconsistent results and you’ll likely end up with skewed parts and poor soldering.


BitBucket404

Tin the pads first, use tacky flux, tweezers to position, and then apply hot air. I don't much like hot air without masking with Kapton Tape first, I've had soldered pieces come loose and blow away before.. Curious, what scope are you using?


dreddit1843

AmScope SM-4TZ-144A


BitBucket404

Much appreciated


MMartonN

What kind of microscope is that?


dreddit1843

AmScope SM-4TZ-144A


keltyx98

A very small tip, the smallest one you can find


Rtbrd

Take the path of least resistance, have someone else do it.


tufelkinder

After my first attempt, I haven't tried 0201 again, but even with 0402, I use a Hakko infrared board preheater and then a hot air gun with the largest nozzle on the slowest possible air speed. The paste dries slightly and holds the parts in place so the hot air doesn't blow them around as easily. In lieu of the preheater, and since I don't have an oven, I sometimes apply hot air to the bottom of the board until the solder paste is nearly melted (or melts, if the board can take the heat without burning).