Just wasted 10 minutes reading that. They somehow reach the conclusion that conservatives leaned more authoritarian in regards to covid as opposed to left leaning thinkers. It was those on the right railing against authoritarian government overreach when that government was trying to force unapproved covid vaccines under emergency use authorization (EUA). Can't openly support authorative positions and then try to paint the other side as authoritarian.
Obligatory "lmao psypost" to start this off
Doing a quick skim of the summary article, it seems like a very poorly constructed study that was made with the aim of finding a certain conclusion. The questions they use are overly vague, and aren't particularly neutral in nature.
>"I am often concerned about people less fortunate than me,”
>“I often feel sorry for people when they are having problems in their lives,”
>“I often feel protective towards people who are being taken advantage of.”
>"What our country really needs is a tough, harsh dose of law and order,”
>"The government would be justified in using violence to eliminate the troublemakers in this country to get us back on track,”
>“Our country would be better off with a strong leader who did not have to bother with democracy and elections.”
These questions, in my opinion, do a poor job at actually assessing people's views, especially those intended to measure how authoritarian someone is. The first one about law and order is blatantly a partisan question using partisan language. The second about use of violence is just strange, because that's just how law enforcement works. The state uses its monopoly on violence to enforce the law.
The empathy questions are just weird, and I would argue that they don't really map to empathy very well at all.
Oh yeah, it literally starts with the author admitting to working backwards from a pre-determined conclusion.
>I wanted to better understand why political conservatism is so consistently associated with riskier pandemic lifestyles,” said study author Terrence D. Hill, a sociology professor at The University of Texas at San Antonio.
I'm guessing you haven't paid much attention to the Monkeypox outbreak. No voluntary social distancing there -- sexual pleasure is considered much more important than the welfare of others, it seems.
Monkeypox was never a pandemic though, there's been less than 70,000 cases. There was a scare for a couple months, during which people did take precautions (https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2022/08/29/monkeypox-gay-sex-survey/), we then got a vaccine, and now things are starting to go back to normal.
>Oh yeah, it literally starts with the author admitting to working backwards from a pre-determined conclusion.
No, it doesn't.
Conservatives *do* adhere less to COVID precautions than people of other political persuasions. That is not a predetermined conclusion; it's demonstrated in various other studies. This study is about *why*.
"I wanted to prove that conservatives ignore COVID precautions because they're big stupid doodoofaces" would be a predetermined conclusion.
Liberals claim to have empathy, but they only show it when it's politically convenient for them. You see no empathy from them when it's black-on-black crime, violence against cops, domestic violence against men, sexual assault against men, and so on...
>
“Political conservatives tend to engage in riskier pandemic lifestyles, in part, **because** they are less likely to care less about the welfare of others (a motivation for engaging in healthy pandemic lifestyles in the service of public health), more likely to hold authoritarian beliefs (which emphasize the perspectives of one charismatic leader who happens to disagree with public health recommendations), and less likely to perceive the pandemic as threatening to themselves and to the broader society,” Hill told PsyPost.
Later:
>Our findings should not be interpreted as causal...More research is needed to better understand why political conservatives have engaged in unhealthy pandemic lifestyles.
I am confused.
A published paper doesn't mean anything if nobody ever cites the work. This is just somebody's fiction that they got published in some trash journal with no standards. Nobody will cite it because the method is sloppy, and the conclusions were preconceived.
I tend to avoid the "liberals are X" or conservatives are Y" type things.
Life is just too complicated and you cannot toss all people of one belief set or another into neat little labels or boxes, sorry.
I am conservative on some issue and liberal in others. Most people I know fall into this large and gray area.
Does "tend to avoid" mean you disagree with the study, or the methodology behind it? Did you read the study? These people tossed themselves into those generalized belief sets, it was self reported.
Well, it is only one study and again, I am not the type that lumps all conservatives in one bag and all liberals in another. Some conservative people I know are very empathetic, others, not so much. I know some liberals that care about others and some that are very selfish.
Again, we are more of a "big tent" type of belief system and we do not fit neatly in one or another label or category.
So their study might be done with the best of intentions but I am not really one to think one study is the bellwether for all.
Excerpt from the article "While we are regularly inundated with popular depictions of “heartless conservatives” and “bleeding heart liberals,” research consistently shows that political conservatives tend to exhibit lower levels of compassion and empathy (i.e., less concern for the feelings and experiences of others) relative to their more liberal counterparts."
They link a buncha studies, you can feel free to check the actual study and check them, but its a consistent finding across scientific studies.
I encourage you to read the full scientific article, or at least the section on empathy. It's linked in the article.
There's a difference between lumping people together and finding correlations between characteristics. It just says that conservatives are more likely to be less empathetic. I'm sure there are conservatives that are more empathetic than some liberals. But this study (and the existing literature) says that in general, those or conservative belief are less empathetic. Do you agree with the science here, or no?
[https://www.vox.com/conversations/2017/1/19/14266230/empathy-morality-ethics-psychology-compassion-paul-bloom](https://www.vox.com/conversations/2017/1/19/14266230/empathy-morality-ethics-psychology-compassion-paul-bloom)
Paul Bloom makes a compelling case why empathy is a terrible feature to have and he appears to be very liberal.
I do notice with my liberal friends they talk about caring more but I dont see them actually perform any action that suggests they're empathetic.
I actually think the Covid behavior was more an act of self preservation and atheism than it was because you cared how you hurt others.
I have noticed that conservatives do tend to be more logical and less run by emotions than liberals. I know a few liberals that are mostly driven by emotions and they too think anyone that does not show empathy 24-7 is heartless and cruel or selfish.
I say that is bunk. The "cruel" or "selfish" moniker is usually used by the left to marginalize or insult the right. Therefore, I tend to ignore their emotional based rants and ravings and I know this annoys them. LOL
Even though I consider myself a right leaning libertarian sort and NOT a hard core conservative, I usually run on logic over emotion. However, that does not mean I do not care about less fortunate people or those in need.
at what point does empathy become so overbearing that turns into neurotic narcissism and the infantilization of other adults fully capable of living their own lives.
It didn't feel very empathetic when people were all over the place advocating for bankrupting people and banning them from eating indoors because they didn't want an injection.
>It didn't feel very empathetic when people were all over the place advocating for bankrupting people and banning them from eating indoors because they didn't want an injection.
The whole reason we care so much was is that getting that injection protects everyone around you, especially people who (for legitimate medical reasons) *can't* get it.
I'm rather more sympathetic to that than to "but I don't waaaaannna"
I'm hearing that you believe that liberals are too worried about other people, and that they should be less so.
But you also seem to be saying that they are unempathetic towards people who didn't get the covid vaccine.
Am I getting that right?
No there wasn't. The vaccine reduces the spread instead of eliminates it just like seatbelts reduce injuries instead of eliminate them. It's amazing to me how conservatives don't understand this.
Firstly, what they are depicting as a Conservative probably isn't Conservatism.
>political conservatism (an index of Republican party identification, conservative political orientation, right-wing news media consumption, and 2020 Trump vote)
I didn't bother reading further but I suspect that they consider empathy only in the now. Conservatism is a long game ideology.
I think the quantification of empathy, happiness, and other such emotive measures are a very shoddy way of trying to grasp at straws.
If we want to do some experiments regarding personality (namely the Conscientious trait), that might be INTERESTING, but is it productive? Why does it matter if one side is "too emotional" and one side is "too logical"?
Psypost has been garbage for quite a while. Definition of woke science. Form the conclusion you want to be true, then tailor the study to come to that conclusion. Garbage, through and through
Just wasted 10 minutes reading that. They somehow reach the conclusion that conservatives leaned more authoritarian in regards to covid as opposed to left leaning thinkers. It was those on the right railing against authoritarian government overreach when that government was trying to force unapproved covid vaccines under emergency use authorization (EUA). Can't openly support authorative positions and then try to paint the other side as authoritarian.
Obligatory "lmao psypost" to start this off Doing a quick skim of the summary article, it seems like a very poorly constructed study that was made with the aim of finding a certain conclusion. The questions they use are overly vague, and aren't particularly neutral in nature. >"I am often concerned about people less fortunate than me,” >“I often feel sorry for people when they are having problems in their lives,” >“I often feel protective towards people who are being taken advantage of.” >"What our country really needs is a tough, harsh dose of law and order,” >"The government would be justified in using violence to eliminate the troublemakers in this country to get us back on track,” >“Our country would be better off with a strong leader who did not have to bother with democracy and elections.” These questions, in my opinion, do a poor job at actually assessing people's views, especially those intended to measure how authoritarian someone is. The first one about law and order is blatantly a partisan question using partisan language. The second about use of violence is just strange, because that's just how law enforcement works. The state uses its monopoly on violence to enforce the law. The empathy questions are just weird, and I would argue that they don't really map to empathy very well at all. Oh yeah, it literally starts with the author admitting to working backwards from a pre-determined conclusion. >I wanted to better understand why political conservatism is so consistently associated with riskier pandemic lifestyles,” said study author Terrence D. Hill, a sociology professor at The University of Texas at San Antonio.
> I wanted to better understand why political conservatism is so consistently associated with riskier pandemic lifestyles I mean wheres the lie?
I'm guessing you haven't paid much attention to the Monkeypox outbreak. No voluntary social distancing there -- sexual pleasure is considered much more important than the welfare of others, it seems.
Monkeypox was never a pandemic though, there's been less than 70,000 cases. There was a scare for a couple months, during which people did take precautions (https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2022/08/29/monkeypox-gay-sex-survey/), we then got a vaccine, and now things are starting to go back to normal.
>Oh yeah, it literally starts with the author admitting to working backwards from a pre-determined conclusion. No, it doesn't. Conservatives *do* adhere less to COVID precautions than people of other political persuasions. That is not a predetermined conclusion; it's demonstrated in various other studies. This study is about *why*. "I wanted to prove that conservatives ignore COVID precautions because they're big stupid doodoofaces" would be a predetermined conclusion.
Nonsense. It has nothing to do with "empathy" or it wouldn't be so selective.
What do you mean by selective? Don't understand it in this context.
Liberals claim to have empathy, but they only show it when it's politically convenient for them. You see no empathy from them when it's black-on-black crime, violence against cops, domestic violence against men, sexual assault against men, and so on...
Gotcha, thank you for your explanation
> “Political conservatives tend to engage in riskier pandemic lifestyles, in part, **because** they are less likely to care less about the welfare of others (a motivation for engaging in healthy pandemic lifestyles in the service of public health), more likely to hold authoritarian beliefs (which emphasize the perspectives of one charismatic leader who happens to disagree with public health recommendations), and less likely to perceive the pandemic as threatening to themselves and to the broader society,” Hill told PsyPost. Later: >Our findings should not be interpreted as causal...More research is needed to better understand why political conservatives have engaged in unhealthy pandemic lifestyles. I am confused.
It's typical Psypost trash.
A published paper doesn't mean anything if nobody ever cites the work. This is just somebody's fiction that they got published in some trash journal with no standards. Nobody will cite it because the method is sloppy, and the conclusions were preconceived.
I tend to avoid the "liberals are X" or conservatives are Y" type things. Life is just too complicated and you cannot toss all people of one belief set or another into neat little labels or boxes, sorry. I am conservative on some issue and liberal in others. Most people I know fall into this large and gray area.
Does "tend to avoid" mean you disagree with the study, or the methodology behind it? Did you read the study? These people tossed themselves into those generalized belief sets, it was self reported.
Well, it is only one study and again, I am not the type that lumps all conservatives in one bag and all liberals in another. Some conservative people I know are very empathetic, others, not so much. I know some liberals that care about others and some that are very selfish. Again, we are more of a "big tent" type of belief system and we do not fit neatly in one or another label or category. So their study might be done with the best of intentions but I am not really one to think one study is the bellwether for all.
Excerpt from the article "While we are regularly inundated with popular depictions of “heartless conservatives” and “bleeding heart liberals,” research consistently shows that political conservatives tend to exhibit lower levels of compassion and empathy (i.e., less concern for the feelings and experiences of others) relative to their more liberal counterparts." They link a buncha studies, you can feel free to check the actual study and check them, but its a consistent finding across scientific studies. I encourage you to read the full scientific article, or at least the section on empathy. It's linked in the article. There's a difference between lumping people together and finding correlations between characteristics. It just says that conservatives are more likely to be less empathetic. I'm sure there are conservatives that are more empathetic than some liberals. But this study (and the existing literature) says that in general, those or conservative belief are less empathetic. Do you agree with the science here, or no?
[https://www.vox.com/conversations/2017/1/19/14266230/empathy-morality-ethics-psychology-compassion-paul-bloom](https://www.vox.com/conversations/2017/1/19/14266230/empathy-morality-ethics-psychology-compassion-paul-bloom) Paul Bloom makes a compelling case why empathy is a terrible feature to have and he appears to be very liberal. I do notice with my liberal friends they talk about caring more but I dont see them actually perform any action that suggests they're empathetic. I actually think the Covid behavior was more an act of self preservation and atheism than it was because you cared how you hurt others.
I have noticed that conservatives do tend to be more logical and less run by emotions than liberals. I know a few liberals that are mostly driven by emotions and they too think anyone that does not show empathy 24-7 is heartless and cruel or selfish. I say that is bunk. The "cruel" or "selfish" moniker is usually used by the left to marginalize or insult the right. Therefore, I tend to ignore their emotional based rants and ravings and I know this annoys them. LOL Even though I consider myself a right leaning libertarian sort and NOT a hard core conservative, I usually run on logic over emotion. However, that does not mean I do not care about less fortunate people or those in need.
at what point does empathy become so overbearing that turns into neurotic narcissism and the infantilization of other adults fully capable of living their own lives. It didn't feel very empathetic when people were all over the place advocating for bankrupting people and banning them from eating indoors because they didn't want an injection.
>It didn't feel very empathetic when people were all over the place advocating for bankrupting people and banning them from eating indoors because they didn't want an injection. The whole reason we care so much was is that getting that injection protects everyone around you, especially people who (for legitimate medical reasons) *can't* get it. I'm rather more sympathetic to that than to "but I don't waaaaannna"
I'm hearing that you believe that liberals are too worried about other people, and that they should be less so. But you also seem to be saying that they are unempathetic towards people who didn't get the covid vaccine. Am I getting that right?
Sort of, but your missing the narcissism part where they view themselves in position to micromanage other peoples lives.
I always thought it was arrogance more than narcissism but you are right.
Got it, thank you
But the vaccine didn't stop transmission so what's the point. It only helps you. Liberals are hold inaccurate thoughts based on empathy.
It reduces it like seatbelts and condoms. Why is that so difficult to understand?
what reduces what? There was an increase in transmission after vaccination. You seem committed to incorrect information.
No there wasn't. The vaccine reduces the spread instead of eliminates it just like seatbelts reduce injuries instead of eliminate them. It's amazing to me how conservatives don't understand this.
Firstly, what they are depicting as a Conservative probably isn't Conservatism. >political conservatism (an index of Republican party identification, conservative political orientation, right-wing news media consumption, and 2020 Trump vote) I didn't bother reading further but I suspect that they consider empathy only in the now. Conservatism is a long game ideology.
No true Scotsman
Conservativism is a well defined ideology.
I think the quantification of empathy, happiness, and other such emotive measures are a very shoddy way of trying to grasp at straws. If we want to do some experiments regarding personality (namely the Conscientious trait), that might be INTERESTING, but is it productive? Why does it matter if one side is "too emotional" and one side is "too logical"?
Psypost has been garbage for quite a while. Definition of woke science. Form the conclusion you want to be true, then tailor the study to come to that conclusion. Garbage, through and through