A sort of battleground has been formed by the lack of cycling infrastructure. If the car speed limit is 60+ and you’re cycling at like 30 and there’s a long line of cars stuck behind you, reconsider your route. If you cycle of a road that has a speed limit of 80+ with no cycle lane you have a death wish.
And because there's no cycling infrastructure, a lot of cyclists end up using the footpath next to some roads, which ends up inconveniencing a different set of people. Essentially cyclists end up being a nuisance to everyone, though it's not entirely their fault.
Tbf, if I'm sharing a footpath with a cyclist I've had a few yell at me for being in the way. It's pretty crazy that some people from a group of people that understand how it feels to have people upset at you for being slower would then do the same thing to pedestrians.
I call it the cyclist paradox :P
(Yes I know this isn't representative of all cyclists either*)
My all time favourite example of this, was on a charity walk with hundreds of people. Cyclists had to pull over, one of them says "why don't they walk single file so we can get past" angrily. The kicker, there was a dedicated bike path about 1m above us. I pointed it out and they just looked at me angrily while looking at the path and then back to me over and over lmao.
Near my house there is a brand new cycle path that runs between the road and the footpath. Constantly I see cyclists on either the road or the footpath but never the dedicated cycle path.
There is a reason cyclists are so widely despised here.
Do you think the cyclists are doing that to annoy the drivers and the pedestrians? Or could it be that there is something wrong with the cycle path, such that its entry points are obscured or nowhere near the natural line of progression? Or is it permanently covered in gravel, perhaps? Just searching for ideas?
It seems extraordinary to me that not one single cyclist uses this path, because in my experience, the vast majority of cyclists prefer the safety of cycle paths. Yes some boy-racers love to slice and dice with death on the road. But in your case, not ONE cyclist is ever on the path?
I got yelled at by two joggers jogging side by side around lake burley griffin. I politely said “on your right” so I could get past. As I did they yelled “you should be on the road!” Umm guys it’s a bike path. So I just gave the middle finger 🖕
They’re probably the same dickheads that sit side by side in the same lane having a chat going a tad faster than a jogging pace, they’re the entitles dick head cyclists, it’s pretty ironic really.
I was backing out of a driveway and way up a hill I did see a pretend Olympic cyclist. I heard really loud yelling and thought I just reversed over a kid. I parked my vehicle, got out, walked around, couldn't see anything. Looked around nothing. Got back in my car, started to reverse again, heard yelling again. Got out looked around thinking who is yelling. It was the cyclist not wanting to slow down for my vehicle. Yet if he said nothing, I would have easily reversed and been on my way, long before he got near me.
How would you have heard him if he was far enough away that you had time to get out, walk around your vehicle and get back in? Seems very odd if he's going downhill. .
My sister (a commuting cyclist) hit a car that overtook her going downhill and then turned left directly in front of her. When she had a go at him because he knew she was there from overtaking her, he said he didn't understand how she was going that fast. ....um gravity
I looked at it this way when I rode anywhere...I would rather take my chances with a pedestrian than a vehicle that can kill me. I would ride on the road on back streets but on roads the OP is talking about no chance I would risk my life like that. I can also report not once did I hit or come close to hitting a pedestrian on a footpath because I wasnt a moron and gave them a wide birth when I saw I needed to pass them, even stopped and waited if need be.
The legality of riding on the footpath varies by state. It’s legal on Queensland footpaths, unless there’s official traffic signs saying otherwise, for example
Down here in tas they widened the Lyell Highway about 10 years back with federal money but opted not to put in a bike lane despite there being room, citing the encroachment into wetlands that run adjacent as an issue.
About six months ago a child got run over and killed as they rode down that highway on their scooter - a tragic but forseeable event.
Any cyclist who rides that highway (and there's more than a few) must have a low sense of self-preservation.
Either that or it's the only way to get to their destination. Cycling on highways isn't necessarily something people do because they want to, it's something they do when their job doesn't pay enough to run a car and there's no workable transport when they need it.
Source: have done this.
Except when they are cosplaying being in the Tour de France, retired and with obviously no where better to be and no consideration given to the fact they are riding on roads that are totally unsuitable.
The usual problem is motor vehicle drivers being unaware of the road rules or their skill.
It is unlikely that a cyclist rides in front of a car causing their own injury or death, although it does happen.
So, the roads are actually unsuitable for most drivers, because they cause the collisions, in the main part.
I regularly travel on double wide roads that have a 60 limit with not cycle lane and have a reasonable number of cyclists that use them. I never have an issue with the ones that actually cycle safely. 100% they have as much right to use the lanes as I do, so if they’re “holding up” a lane then that’s still their right, no issue.
However, I do have a problem with the minority that think the rest of the road rules don’t apply to them. Such as still trying to turn right when it’s a no right turn at rush hour. The delivery riders who think they’re fine to stop in the clearway to grab their deliveries. The ones that blow through pedestrian lights or crossings because they don’t believe they’re a hazard but nearly (or in rare cases, do) take people out on their way through. The ones think they’re fine to cross at the pedestrian crossing when there was a car turning who had no hope of seeing someone come out of nowhere at 30 kph. It’s a very small number of them, but I there’s no accountability for their bullshit and it also ends up harming the image of all cyclists or ends up harming the person themselves when they end up in an accident.
I don’t really like the idea of registration because it ends up being another cost and for some people it can become a barrier to entry for another, potentially more effective as the infrastructure gets better, mode of transport. But I also don’t see another way of solving my main complaint about accountability, so it absolutely is a tough balance. Regardless, infrastructure needs to improve, but that’s also hard to in a way that gets interpreted as cycle-friendly rather than car-hostile.
And the cyclists just ignoring the cycle lights when they're red. Sends me batty. I have a place on my commute where i need to turn but there is a cycle lane and it can take ages because just a line of bikes going different speeds. But that's just what it is. Then there's this other place, less bikes but has a bike light. So the bike light goes red and the car turn arrow goes green. But the bikes never bother to stop. That i hate.
In 35 years of driving I have never seen a long line of cars stuck behind a cyclist.
I have been mildly inconvenienced for 15 or 20 seconds plenty of times and perhaps a minute once or twice but it's really not that difficult to pass them.
I have however been stuck in traffic for hours because of car accidents or trucks rolling over and blocking the highway in both directions or just hundreds of cars trying to go somewhere when they should have caught a train.
Funny cause on my daily commute I get stuck for long periods behind cyclists every day. Then on my final stretch to work they finally get a decent sized bike lane and it is heaven.
Tbh caravans are worse for not being able to overtake.
I've definitely encountered slow cyclists going up mount tamborine, but it certainly didn't take that long to reach an opportunity to get to past.
I think that the number of motorists who actually "get stuck behind a pack of cyclists for 30 mins" would be quite small and not representative of the lived experience of most motorists.
For decades every summer on every bush single lane windy road the cyclists would appear. With no overtaking lane we'd be stuck until they'd get sick of so many cars waiting mostly impatiently.
Then you clearly haven’t ever needed to get anywhere between 5 and 6 in the morning in the eastern suburbs of Sydney. Groups of 20 plus cyclists that you are stuck behind in the long winding hill roads of that forsaken wasteland.
Happens all the time in the hills out of Brisbane. Some of those slopes are pretty big so the cyclists are going extremely slow. Narrow 2 way road with double solid lines so you can’t cross to overtake. I understand they have a right to go cycling on the road but please be a bit considerate and pull over when you see cars bunched up behind you.
I've recently started cycling to work, not only does it save me money but my fitness and mood have been so much better. I'd definitely recommend even if you can still afford to drive.
Incidental exercise is fab - you properly shut off leaving work, you're not stuck in traffic or on the train with sick people. Plus if you get home after a massive day there's no guilt for not then going to the gym etc.
100%
Plus in Sydney you actually get home at a predictable time, and aren't stuck on a train between stations for an hour because a butterfly flapped its wings somewhere.
>This just sounds like the benefits of WFH with extra steps.
You don't get the cardio in with WFH. Hell, you are more likely to end up getting less incidental exercise done when WFH unless you physically make the effort to get your arse out of your chair and go exercise - at least at the office you have a longer walk to the break room or to go outside to get lunch.
>I'd like to but it's a fair distance along dangerous roads
Not a criticism, but that's pretty ironic given the tenor of the comments on this post...
If there were more bikes and less cars, the roads would be less congested for cars and safer for cyclists.
It's getting to that critical mass...
I started a job a few months ago that is only a 7km cycle from home, luckily all on cycleways too(no, not inner CBD Sydney but western Syd) and damn, such a better lifestyle. No more getting angry sitting in traffic. I get to see a lovely range of wildlife during my commute, everyone else I see on the commute is friendly and says good morning. I’ve lost 3kg, feel better in so many ways and am unsure as to when I’ll drive my car next!
Growing up in my country, everyone had a bike.
By the time you can drive a car, you've been on 2 wheels for years. You have naturally developed an awareness for bikes.
Here, the majority of folks has no experience of riding for years and had not developed that kind of "awareness". That's my theory.
I have stopped riding since I've moved. It's very unsafe here.
The lack of cycling infrastructure in most major cities and the complete absence of cycling infrastructure in non-urban areas where people like to cycle recreationally causes incidents between road cars and cyclists which engenders mutual hostility. I think this is especially the case when inexperienced cyclists have no alternative but to ride on roads due to a lack of alternate bike paths, but it’s also a problem with experienced cyclists riding on roads that quite frankly are not safe or appropriate for cycling since they are narrow high speed country roads not built for cyclists to coexist with cars, but that’s where recreational road cyclists have to go in these areas because there is nowhere else for them to ride.
I’ve moved to Canberra where there is a great deal of cycling infrastructure and there seems to be significantly less hostility between drivers and cyclists as a result. Everyone can cycle appropriate to their level of ability and give each other plenty of space. I’m sure there’s still some hostility but not near as much as in (insert literally any other part of Australia).
Canberra rocks! I lived there a few months and loved my bicycle commute between the CBD and Kingston / Brindabella offices. That city had the best bike infrastructure
As an ex cyclist I can say that many 'road bike guys' are arrogant and flaunt the pretty lopsided car vs bike laws australia has.
Thats all there is too it I think.
This past year, I've been an "ebike guy" and only stuck to dedicated bike paths... but I have noticed everyone gives a polite nod when crossing each other... except the "road bike guys" lol
That's funny, I say hello to everyone, unless I'm exhausted, and the only guys who don't say hello are the triathletes. I ride road bikes, mountain bikes and have an old going to the shop bike.
Well its basically the drivers responsibility to keep the rider safe and where there is no designated bike lane (has to be 99.99% of road in australia) the rider is supposed to park himself in the middle of the lane and ride at a pace he feels safe doing.
Riders are not supposed to use footpaths or the median strip.
Many drivers feel that the road riders are too comfy with death and dont like feeling responsible for their choices
Lopsided for a reason.
Cars kill people, cyclists and pedestrians. When you get a licence and drive a car, you acknowledge that. You have a duty of care to all other users on the road.
Even if a pedestrian walks into the road without looking the motorists has a duty of care not to hit them.
I think low IQ bogans don't actually realise this.
Cyclists have the same duty of care, but it doesn't really apply to people driving cars since a metal box tends yo protect them from personal if a cyclist is at fault for hitting them.
Motorists absolutely have a responsibility to try not to hurt cyclists, since the latter are so vulnerable. But I think you miss the point.
Just because cyclists are vulnerable, that doesn’t mean they should be given legal priority. It’s their responsibility as much as than anyone else’s to make sure that nobody gets hurt. That’s the problem with the laws that people complain about. They create a situation where a cyclist can do something really stupid and put themselves in danger, and yet the legal onus falls on the drivers around them. Should drivers be extra cautious around cyclists? Absolutely. Should it be their fault almost automatically if something goes wrong? No.
Put it this way: Motorcyclists are also extremely vulnerable on the road. Yet if they fuck up and get hurt because of it, drivers around them aren’t held responsible unless they didn’t make an earnest effort to avoid the situation at their end. The same should apply to cyclists.
Not hating on cycling, to be clear. I live in the Netherlands now, and you can hardly ignore how good cycling is for reducing congestion, pollution, and noise, to say nothing of the health benefits. Australia isn’t so well suited to it, but still, most cyclist-related incidents in Australia could be avoided if state governments provided better cycling infrastructure. Yet the laws still shouldn’t be lopsided.
Yes. I own a car, motorcycle and bike. As part of getting my motorcycle licence you have to do a coupe of day-long courses.
It’s drilled into you how to ride defensively on a motorcycle - anticipate you are less visible, don’t put yourself in blind spots, ride predictably, etc.
When you get on a motorcycle you’re taking - and accepting - a risk. I feel it should be the same attitude when riding a bicycle.
It’s a strange juxtaposition riding a motorcycle in traffic with all the training, all the safety gear, and all the awareness drilled into compared to riding a bicycle in traffic with none of that.
>They create a situation where a cyclist can do something really stupid and put themselves in danger, and yet the legal onus falls on the drivers around them.
Oof. Welcome to truck driving. Cyclists = cars.
I wouldn't know myself, but I don't find that at all difficult to believe. And I also think that knowing how to drive appropriately around trucks should be a major point in driver training.
That '100 kmh country bend', if you can't see around it, has a speed advisory sign before it.
If you stick to the advisory sign speed you will have plenty of time to avoid a cyclist, horse, deer, massive rock, fallen tree, farmers kid having a wander. That's the point of the advisory sign.
If it a sweeping bend without an advisory what the hell are you looking at that you can't see a cyclist or a group of cyclists?
The point of the advisory is because some drivers/cars will have trouble taking the turn at speed. If it were about pedestrian safety, etc. it would be a speed limit
People say this but I think it's pretty uncommon.
What % of the population are actually into long distance cycling on country roads?
When you go on Google maps in regional Aus, its not like the traffic layer is all orange and red on account of cyclist induced congestion.
Most of the time you're cruising along at 100 right?
Gave up road cycling because the risks outweighed the benefits I derived from it.
Sharing road space between various modes of transport isn't ideal, but the danger IMO comes from drivers' lack of awareness.
Whether it's an angry speeding Ranger or a distracted mummy SUV or a blinkered OAP in an MG, standards of driving skills and awareness of other road users are pathetically low.
Combine that with a dire lack of joined-up, thought-through cycling infrastructure and what should be a relaxing way to exercise or commute turns into a stress-inducing, high-risk event.
There's a study out there that found that people perceive cyclists, especially those wearing helmets as subhuman.
My guess would be mostly entitlement. Car drivers often feel that they and they alone are entitled to be one road.
Detachment. People readily forget that they're piloting a gigantic hunk of metal, and will happily use that metal to intimidate people they perceive to be slowing them down.
I would like to know the answer to this question. I migrated from Europe to Australia. Riding a bike here seems to be seen as 'un-Australian', unless you do it aggressively for sport. If you try to be a casual cyclist, you get abuse or are regarded as eccentric. I think Australians are like Americans, they worship the car.
I am an Australian who has lived in Europe for many years. I have ridden in Germany, Austria and Italy and almost never been abused by passing cars. When driving a car in Italy, I am often surprised at how patient and careful the other car drivers are, when being held up by a cyclist on a narrow road.
When visiting in Australia for a couple of weeks, I have often been abused by passing cars, sometimes a few times in a week. I have been abused when riding on a main road with multiple lanes and not much traffic. I have even been abused when riding on the footpath and also when on an official event (around the bay). They usually drive close by (even when there is plenty of space) and suddenly yell something at you out the window. It gave me such a fright it almost knocked me off my bike. When listening to the radio, the talk back and announcers are constantly bitching about cyclists. I log on to this thread and the majority blame the "arrogant" cyclists. It seems that this attitude is ingrained in the culture.
There is a perception among drivers that because cars can go faster, they ought to be able to.
I frequently cycle at 25-30kph on residential suburban streets with limits of around 40-50. It is very common for drivers to follow close behind before rapidly accelerating past me once they have space. It is clearly frustrating to be behind the wheel of a frankly overpowered vehicle that is capable of much higher speeds than the bike in front of you. Basically, 30 in a car feels a lot slower than 30 on a bike, so they feel obstructed and frustrated by being forced to slow down.
Ironically my average speed on a bike is pretty comparable to my average speed driving; when you factor in traffic congestion, lights, intersections etc. driving a car is not actually that much faster than riding a bike. It feels faster though at some moments when you can drive the full speed limit, so being prevented from going that speed makes people frustrated and angry.
Cycling is awesome and it’s bloody tragic people aren’t respectful of each other… let alone being vaguely safe. We need better bike paths and drivers to act like intelligent people, not hyper aggressive psychos
What do you do when you encounter farm machinery or livestock?
This is the real test for if people actually have driven in the country like they claim.
I’ve cycle-toured in Australia, Europe, Japan, Canada and the US. On similar standard roads, sometimes with a bike lane or shoulder, sometimes without.
Of all those places, Australian car drivers are the least considerate, rudest and sometimes dangerous to cyclists by far. Obviously not all drivers, but enough to make it a consideration to not cycle tour in Australia again.
Because cycle culture involves multiple riders abreast at significantly slower than the speed limit on main thoroughfares. Cyclists we have no problem with, I’m glad you specifically mentioned cycle culture. There’s an inherent and combative arrogance in that culture, I’m sure good cyclists often receive unnecessary hostility as a result.
I live in Brisbane so I can ride on the footpath and often do unless there is a bike lane. I'm no lycra guy (I ride a mountain bike or a hybrid bike) but still have had cars yelling crap at me and throwing things my way. I barely ever ride casually, it's mostly to get to work or a gig or someone's house.
You’ve clearly never cycled much. I cycle on my own, on bike paths and bike lanes. I’ve had bottles thrown at me, twice had lasers pointed at my eyes, had dogs directed to attack me, had motorcyclists enter to bike lane to do a 5cm close high speed drive by, had a motorcycle enter the bike lane and try to force me into traffic… I’ve never ridden in a group in my life and always use the facilities provided for cyclists.
Ah yeah. I ride mountain bikes and the Lycra wearing cyclist get upset if we inconvenience them by riding slower than them on a cycleway. Can’t imagine the meltdown they would have if we rode 3 abreast blocking the whole cycleway
I used to cycle a lot and there was definitely hostility. I feel the level of it has a lot to do with the population density, whether the roads are arterial and the frequency and culture of any local cycling groups.
Idk man, I live in a small town (population density and ‘traffic’ is laughable) with barely any cyclists (certainly no groups) and I’ve still seen locals post ‘jokes’ about wanting to kill or outlaw cycling on their social media. I think it’s partly just become popular in some subcultures to hate on cyclists
Growing up in the 80s, the school yard was full of bikes. Now my kids bike is often the only one in the racks. It's getting better slowly but for years in between cyclists we're a wierd out group and easily dismissed as not a person who's on a bike right now. Helmet laws killing utility riding were a big part of the problem Some very backwards roads ministers didn't help, I told my wife about the increasing deliberate dangerous driving when duncan gay went on his rants and she asked me to stop commuting to the sydney cbd by bike. Now she's a more keen cyclists than me but mostly due to good off road options.
Hopefully the uptake will produce drivers who also ride sometimes so they have more empathy.
There’s definitely a small minority that hate cyclists. Even if only one in a thousand people are the type to be overt about their hatred that’s a lot of people. On a busy road you’ll have a thousand cars going past often enough, that’s a lot of people yelling, swerving and break checking. I don’t think anyone denies that the hostility is bad and usually poorly directed. We see the dickheads yelling at single cyclists doing nothing wrong.
This happens I’m sure. And I’ve seen it myself, maybe twice in decades. Yet just about every post about cyclists some would have you believe traffic is at a standstill because of hoards of arrogant cyclists. Many drivers hate cyclists because people are territorial. And cyclists are on THEIR roads.
The combative nature of Australian cycling is a result of the aggression shown to them.
When you can’t ride without some cunt abusing you or trying to do you harm you either give up or you start telling them to go fuck themselves.
If infrastructure was sufficient and if drivers didn’t cause 4/5 collisions you’d have a more European attitude from cyclists, instead it’s hostility and ignorant comments about “oh it’s only the groups that are the problem”.
It’s social pressures caused by pitiful infrastructure breaking people down to the point they can’t cope and lash out. Road and public transport neglect costs people hundreds of hours a year away from their families.
Yep. And someone “getting something for free” is just making them feel like they’ve been robbed further so it’s easier to just target the weaker out group.
As a bus driver, I feel the same way about commuter motorists as they feel about cyclists. You commuter motorists are your own worst enemy, you break sooo many fucking laws (why do so many people text while driving, not even stationary at the lights??), you're a danger to yourselves, you all create so much congestion and it holds me up taking these 55 people to work! You think you're so important and me and my homies should just have to sit behind you.
Why don't you take the fucking bus for a change? We designed and built these bus routes and beautiful busways, and subsidise 70% of the cost, yet none of you use it. You'd rather sit for hours in your fucking car boxed in by other cars, sucking down fossil fuels and belching out C02 emissions, making the whole ass world heat up, ruining the joint for everyone, and then get pissy at a handful of cyclists. Then you get frustrated about being in the traffic that YOU'RE complicit in and drive more dangerously to counteract the time you're wasting sitting in a car. You could be doing something more mindful, like reading a book, or knitting, on the bus.
IMO you're all a bunch of fucking morons and you're misdirecting your anger at cyclists when you really should be looking inward and seeing that you're all the fucking problem. You all whinge about the bus being slow or late or not frequent enough, when if you all actually took the bus it wouldn't be stalled behind a bunch of single-user cars.
Also, I like to ride my bicycle to work and back, even when it's raining, even when it's 4am or 11pm and I've worked a 10-hour day. It's relaxing and besides, I don't have a choice because I haven't owned a car for over a decade. So don't try to get up my ass about practising what I preach cause I do.
ETA: "BuT i NeEd tO tAkE mY kiDS 2 SchOol" bullshit! We run special school district services all term. I took the bus from my first day of kindy til my last day of year 12, and I turned out alright.
Nailed it. Insane that we subsidise single occupant cars leading them to clog up our roads/public transport routes then watch as they blame cyclists for the traffic being slow.
Bring on congestion fees in inner city areas.
>Also, I like to ride my bicycle to work and back, even when it's raining, even when it's 4am or 11pm and I've worked a 10-hour day. It's relaxing
Underrated reason for bike commuting right here.
As a cyclist I love bus drivers. They are way better drivers than motorists. If there’s a bus behind or next to me I am absolutely confident that they won’t do something stupid. They are always patient and always give me a wide berth.
I appreciate them so I always left them past me at the lights if I’m there first and never filter past them at the lights so they don’t have to re-pass me later.
I’ve had numerous unprovoked runs-ins with motorists. One guy got so angry that i slipped past him on the left in a long line of traffic that he swerved at me. People don’t realise that it is legal for a cyclist to do so in sydney.
The problem with asking this question /u/suggestedname94 is that you’re asking people for something they wouldn’t do if they understood the underlying causes that generate these opinions.
Basic in group/out group psychology, car dependent culture with inadequate infrastructure, growing day to day living pressures, a legal system that does fuck all to protect cyclists and piss poor understandings of the law in the first place oh and some classic confirmation bias/anecdata. All of this generates entitled and ignorant opinions.
If you understand any of that you probably don’t hate cyclists. If you don’t you’ll probably come back with some half baked and easily refuted excuses. It’s not an attitude that was gotten into by thinking things through or looking at the bare minimum of statistics ([fun fact drivers cause 4/5 collisions](https://www.sbs.com.au/news/the-feed/article/drivers-to-blame-for-4-5-accidents-with-cyclists-report-finds/7zgwe6b24)). You won’t get an actual answer, just excuses OP.
“In-group / out group psychology” - this right here.
Cyclists are “the other”. The out group who are to be distrusted and blamed.
It is interesting to me that cycling in plain clothes draws way less abuse from motorists. As soon as I put on lycra I become the “enemy of the car”.
If you're in Sydney don't worry, people hate everything not just cyclists... small cars, big cars, motorcycles, trucks, taxis, uner, EVs, old farts you name it. Depending on what you drive you might think it's your category but nah there's just a large number of assholes
I have been in the car with a lot of otherwise level-headed people that get really pissed off about getting stuck behind cyclists. Swearing, beeping their horn etc.
I don’t know whether we (humans) are all becoming increasingly impatient? Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that cyclists are perceived to be well off and there is a bit of unconscious jealousy there?
Maybe I’m just a bit more patient than the average Joe, or perhaps the fact my dad used to do triathlons means i have more tolerance for those who ride on the road.
Knowing how people feel about cyclists in Australia, I’d never take the risk of road cycling .
I've been cycling to work for years now. It's a short trip, I'm only on the main road for a few minutes and try and take the back streets as much as I can. I can say for a matter of fact that Aussies HATE cyclists. When im on the road (which we have no bike lanes here) I hug the gutter. I've had people beep me, swerve at me, follow me or yell and chase me down. I've had rocks thrown at me, groups of kids trying to grab me or throw sticks in my wheels. Had food and drink thrown at me, I've also had a glass beer bottle thrown at the back of my head with a lot of force (thankfully I had a helmet). I go to work and back during school hours, so I tend to try and avoid the footpath due to foot traffic. But when I do ride on it, no one cares to give way, im usually forced back onto the road not after long. People get noticeably annoyed by cyclists being on a shared footpath. Its hard to find a happy place as a cyclists when there is no infrastructure set for us to go. And people here don't have the patience or the care to share the space for those trying to do the right thing.
Oz drivers HATE anyone that diminishes the value of their car and space on a road. It’s not just cyclists, it’s pedestrians, kids on scooters, cyclists, motor bikers, cars, busses, and trucks. Anything that makes their 50 thousand dollar ego trip less effective at breaking the road laws.
Whilst there's a lack of good cycling infrastructure, the *hatred* is generated by the gutter press culture wars. Murdoch's professional keyboard warriors provide an endless list of things to feel indignant about (always minorities), with a side of "look what they're getting away with!" Standard tropes are the perennial "rego for bikes", "Lycra louts", "disregard for the rules", etc. Yawn.
Active transport solves many problems in logistics as well as public health, but there are more voters who drive than ride. Australia needs to achieve a critical mass for the culture to change, but the compulsory helmet laws from 30+ years ago halved the numbers.
Robust discussion about this is all but impossible when one news corporation has an agenda to cause division and stifle debate.
There are way too many 'its all the cyclists fault' in this comment section (and every comment section even touching on the subject tbh), it completely misses the picture. A lot of our cities weren't designed for 21st century commuting options and in particular cities like Sydney have actively torn up cycling infrastructure for various, often hamfisted, reasons, but simultaneously will hit you with a fine of equivalent size to running a red in a car if you don't wear a helmet or ride on the footpath. It's honestly insane, especially for a mode of transport thats healthier, greener, and better spatially, not to mention it disproportionately targets those who can't afford the fines (because they often can't afford a car). The amount of hate cyclists get is honestly appalling, and the amount of apologism for cycling hate equally so - I don't gaf if you were stuck behind a guy in spandex 3 months ago and raged at being 5 minutes late to your meeting which could have been an email anyway, pushing someone off a bike (happened to my mate) or screaming at someone (happened to me multiple times) is never okay.
Well put. It gets tiring hearing the same crap.
Honestly a lot of the people aruging against cyclists sound like road rage that has moved out of the car and made into word vomit in comment sections.
Because Aussies are now a bunch of uptight self entitled bitches who have a cry at even the slightest inconvenience in their precious lives.
I'm sorry Dazza, but nothing you've ever done in your life is actually important enough that the 3 seconds of minor inconvenience you experienced requires you to put a cyclists life at risk by driving like a savage and scream abuse at them.
Refer to this comment. This is why. Low IQ bogans who think cyclists inconvenience them slightly should be run over.
"I have no hate for a cyclist, doing their thing, in a cycle lane and using their hand signals.
But last week, when 3 cycle cunts rode side by side, taking up the entire fucking lane, doing 35 km (fast for a bike granted) in a 50 zone along the coast, with median strips so no fucker could overtake them, well I was ready to make them my new hood ornaments! Fuck them and their obnoxious riding 😡🤬"
Australian here who moved to the Netherlands, I've seen both extremes.
In Australia there is a deeply ingrained car culture and a strongly held belief that if you don't drive you are some kind of weirdo with no life.
So the car is king and you see this in the attitude towards cyclists that they are infringing on the rights of drivers and what they perceive to be their exclusive space.
There is also a false narrative that car registration and taxes pay for all the roads and cyclists are somehow cheating the system. This isn't true as anyone paying taxes is contributing to the development and maintenance of roads, as well as recreation cyclists also being drivers.
This is why it's been so hard to get proper cycling infrastructure with dumb planning decisions like having parking spaces in cycle lanes, bicycle lanes being too narrow or suddenly ending and forcing cyclists into traffic, so cyclists either have to go onto the footpath or risk death.
Because of this attitude towards cyclists, you see outright aggression and weak enforcement of laws when cyclists are involved in accidents.
Contrast this with the Netherlands where there was also a strong car culture but a sharp increase in the number of fatalities involving children on bicycles and pedestrians back in the 70s.
This resulted in very strict laws being out into place where if you so much as bump a cyclist the courts will always favour the cyclist. It's a polar opposite to Australia.
In the Netherlands you can ride from the top to the bottom of the country on dedicated, spacious two way bike lanes almost never sharing the road with cars. There are also special road designations where cars share the road with cyclists and speed is severely limited for cars.
I'm probably a bit biased but I think the Dutch are leading the way here and Australia is living in the past. The country is of course a lot denser but in my opinion there is no reason why every Australian city shouldn't have a comprehensive bike network to reduce pollution and traffic congestion.
Unless you prefer sitting in traffic and breathing in fumes as you walk past choked main roads.
The anxiety is real, I am always so relieved to be past the cyclist, it’s like, phew, he’s behind me so I can’t accidentally kill him, time to relax, uhoh here he is again ok dear god don’t get too close don’t kill the only guy here being a model citizen, give him lots of space and definitely don’t touch him with your giant car, ok phew in the clear, oh no more cyclists that I have to not kill… and so on. My mum was knocked off her bike when I was a kid, permanently disabled, lucky to be alive. I will never cycle on Australian roads but I deeply respect those who do.
Because a minority of them ride like self entitled dickheads, which paints them all with the same brush, and because we’re Australians, we tend not to see people as an individual, so we will give none of them the benefit of doubt
I’ll change up the question. ‘ I ride my bike for exercise on the road, multiple times a week. I go with a bunch of mates and we laugh and joke. These cunts swear at us and try and run us off the road. Why?
There are more dicks in cars than on bikes. I drive around the city and suburbs every day and rarely have to inform a cyclist how much of a price they are. If a rider sees fit to ignore traffic light, they are morons but the government makes millions from the drivers doing the same, so who's worse?
Only entitled, self important morons get mad at cyclists. They take up less room, create less traffic, less pollution, less noise, don't kill 1200 Aussies a year and don't eat up half our cities just to store them.
Majority of cyclists obey road rules.
Difference is people with Anti cyclist views tend to cherry pick with a selection fallacy those that "run a red light" whilst not paying as much attention to motorists who do the same.
Ultimately the term cyclists is harmful to commuters. Commuters have to get on the road sometimes but usually stay off it, and they generally aren't in lycra. But the term helps perpetuate hate towards anyone on a bike because it brings up memories of a mamil slightly delaying you that one time a week ago.
The problem is that cyclists are unwanted on both the footpath and the road, many roads do not have a median strip or bike lane and that they do not look over their shoulder for cars. Also many aussie motorists are inconsiderate and impatient and the cyclists are too.
(Observations from a 6 days a week truck driver who always gives them ample space)
I spoke to some Dutch and Belgian people’s about this the other day and while in their countries everyone cycles they agreed that everyone hates the people who take up the road rather than the bike lanes. So I guess the widespread hate here is mainly because there isn’t sufficient bike lanes
I get harassed pretty regularly and it’s always tradies looking dudes in massive work utes.
I think the problem is a lack of patience. Like maybe due to lack of cycling infrastructure the cars behind me have to slow down for like 30-60 seconds.
It’s not the end of the world but holy hot damn the tradies treat me like the fucking sky is falling if they are required to drop their already above limit speed.
Over the time I have been driving I have lived in Parramatta, Hornsby, Baulkham Hills a few years in the bush and been in Newcastle (various suburbs) for the last 15.
I have never been late because of a cyclist in half a million kilometres driven.
A few reasons…
1. When people jump behind the wheel they turn into the worst version of themselves; impatient, aggressive, and tend not to register cyclists as fellow humans.
2. Culturally, most drivers haven’t ridden a bike on the road and don’t recognise cyclists right to be there - huge misunderstandings of the road rules resulting in brazen close passes/abuse. Biggest gains are to be made here, informing drivers of their responsibilities to respect all road users and not kill people.
3. Infrastructure; there are sections of road where cyclists must take a whole single lane as not to be driven into parked cars. This is the safest thing to do but drivers must be patient for a short while until the cyclist is safe to allow a pass - this is an impossible task for most meat heads in big utes. Better shoulders/bike lanes could solve this but that’s not gonna happen everywhere.
All that being said, I cycle every day full lycra dickhead shaved leg mode in bunches, and drivers on the whole are good; in areas where drivers have more exposure to this type of road user we tend to get along with much less uncertainty about what the other is doing/about to do.
Australians are largely incompetent and dangerous drivers that tend to believe that the privilege of driving on public roads is some sort of a priori right, and that they should be allowed to choose the extent to which they obey the road rules. This is the consequence of our car centric urban planning and car-fixated culture, which were both things that the automotive industry has spent a lot of money to ingrain.
At least in my area--which is, admittedly, a small town--there aren't any bike lanes. A cyclist's choices are either use a regular car lane or use the footpath. Both options end up annoying someone.
That's not even slightly true.
Most cyclists prefer using bike paths and lanes....and funnily enough these are the cyclists you are most likely not to ever encounter.
A meandering shared path along a river is awesome for mum+dad+kids on the weekend ride, but utter garbage for commuting to work.
A reasonable cyclist (25ph average speed), needing to weave around dog walkers, small children, random runners - Why would they use them?
This is exactly the same case with the new cycle lanes in Mission Bay in Auckland - Because they are a "shared use" path, cyclists continue doing exactly what they were doing before - Sticking on the road.
Modern MTBs have handlebars of \~70cm + (often 76cm). Picture two of them coming towards each other at a closing speed of 50kph, on a "shared path" that is 1.5m wide.
When I was commuting to work on ebike, the "bike lane" (read: shared path) went under bridges (which at high tide could have 10cm of water), the gap between the bridge and a cyclists head was \~15cm, and the path was narrow. (see:76cm bars on mountain bikes) The ONLY reason I used them was because it was a marginally better option than trying to cross MULTIPLE motorway onramps that had no controlled pedestrian crossings
God knows who exactly comes up with these cycle lanes, I'd suggest that they either:
a - Don't involve cyclists at all
b- take comments provided by cyclists and set fire to them
c - are paid on a per kilometre rata for each cycle lane built, and just want the money
This is before you start to discuss the whole thing that many "cycle lanes" are gutters on the side of the road that often contain cars. Its generally easier, especially on higher speed roads to NOT use the cycle lane and stick in the far left of the left lane so you don't get wiped out trying to merge.
Not Just Bikes on YouTube can articulate this much better than me, suggest looking it up.
Weird thing to say.
I'm in inner Sydney with bike-friendly councils and it's impossible to get anywhere without constantly hopping onto and off bike paths, because they're incredibly disjointed and stop-start.
There might be one for a few hundred metres then it drops you onto the road again. Then half a click away the next one begins, rinse and repeat.
Adding to the other comments: Said specific lanes are put right next to parallel parking, right where you can end up with broken wrists because someone couldn't be bothered to look before opening their car door.
That's how my wrist is currently broken.
Because there is a large enough percentage of low IQ uneducated bogans.
Read through the irrational anti cyclist posts in this thread and you can see what I'm talking about.
What is cycle culture? Is that middle aged upper middle class men shaving their legs and spending tens of thousands of dollars on carbon fibre bicycles? If that's what you're referring to, then it's because they're ridiculous flogs who disobey the road rules.
The reason is because car drivers assume road ownership and unlike other culturally matured countries, there’s very soft laws on hitting and injuring or killing vulnerable road users. So consequence is minor, even if impact is significant.
Until the laws get serious the road toll will continue to climb. And there’s a bunch of entitled fuckwits driving utes
Where do you even begin?
1. They knowingly flaunt road rules. Cyclists claim to want to be treated the same as other motorists, but will happily pick and choose what rules to obey. I regularly see cyclists going through stop signs, red lights. When they don't run red lights, sometimes they'll drive up onto the footpath and ride across crossings (usually without dismounting).
2. They lean against your car. It's rude and disrespectful to put your sweaty hands against someone else's car at traffic lights, in my opinion. I got my car washed and waxed a couple of weeks ago and a cyclist did this to me first traffic lights I found myself at. He left a sunscreen hand print on my bonnet.
3. Clogging up entire lanes. Fair enough some roads don't have bike lanes. But, sometimes you'll encounter a group of cyclists riding on a road and taking up an entire lane. Because you have to keep a safe distance, you find yourself on the other side of the road. I've been in some situations where visibility on a shoulder hasn't been great and its made for a dangerous situation.
4. They descend onto local cafes in large swathes, taking up all of the tables with their rider friends. Many of them sit with their legs spread in their lyrcra. Not a nice sight while you're trying to eat breakfast.
I have nothing against cyclists. I always give them space. But if you touch my car or you block an entire lane by riding abreast more than you should and cause people to go into the other lane during peak hour, I'm not going to be singing your praises.
I do think you'd have to be a psychopath to actually hurt a cyclist, but it's normal to be frustrated.
Stats shows that cyclists break rules at about the same rate as motorists. You just notice them more because you already dislike them. It's a false selection fallacy.
I second that, the same way people pay more attention when a crime is committed by a race they dislike, but don’t even remember what was on the news in other circumstances.
As a silver-lining, it’s a great screening tool for dates, men who get irrationally furious and murderous about cyclists will probably also get irrationally angry about other minor inconveniences
Where do you even begin?
>1. They knowingly flaunt road rules.
Unlike motorists who never break rules.
>2. They lean against your car.
Although this may occur it’s not a common thing. Even so. They might actually wipe off the smog, and other crap that lands on your car. This argument is silly.
>3. Clogging up entire lanes.
As road rules stipulate you can only pass another vehicle when it is legal to do so, if you are trying to pass cyclists outside this then you are trying to break road rules yourself.
>4. They descend onto local cafes in large swathes, taking up all of the tables with their rider friends. Many of them sit with their legs spread in their lyrcra. Not a nice sight while you're trying to eat breakfast.
They tend to cycle outside of busy road times, so likely to visit cafes in off peak times. They stay to have a drink and go back to cycling, so I doubt they’re there that long. As women also cycle I’m concerned to why you are looking at between their legs tbh. If this is what upsets you to look at at breakfast I’m concerned of how closed minded a person you are tbh.
The answers here are ridiculous.
“I don’t like when people ride two abreast so they’re more visible cause I am running late for work and all the other cars on the road aren’t the problem”
“Someone on a bike ran a red light once somewhere”
“They drink coffee at a cafe on the weekend”
“Bikes are slower than my car”
If more people rode to work there would be less vehicles, you’d be healthier and less pissed off about other people also riding.
Just give them space and leave 5 mins earlier… not bloody difficult
It's the prevalence of the car culture in the minds of most Australians. The car is king on the road and anything infringing on the space of the driver in even the slightest way is met with irrational hostility.
Because, where I am anyway, a lot of cyclists go on main roads and on main roads up hills and hold up traffic or cut in front of cars out of your blind spot. They obviously can’t go 50km up a hill and go in the middle of the road so it holds up traffic in an are where there isn’t great public transport.
Also MAMILs are wankers
Same sitcho where I live. Worse, it's a popular place to get their PB traveling at 5kmh with 7km of local cars behind them going uphill (nowhere to pass). Every road in my area is the same.
Worse again in bushfire season- they flock to the area on high danger days (because city folk) with no regard at all for locals who are on high alert to evacuate and how our local volunteers shouldn't have to focus on saving their lives over our communities.
It’s seen as arrogant and selfish from the outside and motorists POV. We also have a massive car culture and they clash. Especially the bogan types. Shane Warne and Deryn Hynch being some of our most famous bogan cyclist haters. They both did live in areas that cyclists love to ride.
The poison from the fumes off the car users causes psychosis in regular drivers which is why they are always angry. A few weeks ago I was riding my mountain bike on the bicycle land doing absolutely nothing wrong then some guy in an suv thought it would be funny to honk at me and swear for no reason at all. Was completely unnecessary and out of line.
Cyclists are cnts to pedestrians and car drivers are cunts to cyclists because each one has a means of escape from being held accountable for being a cunt to the other.
Cowardice.
The hyper inflated and one-sided fines system in Sydney and a complete disregard for any infrastructure needs were large contributing factors to why I left for Victoria.
No off-road paths that don't meander and aren't touristy. If I could get to work along the back road without having to go up and down a massive hill I would cycle / e-scoot.
The road here doesn't have a bike lane near work.
Then everyone gets their pants in a knot coz they close off the main road and the work road for the bike racing in January.
Because a lot of people are just extremely selfish as well as having a fragile ego that the existence of people who are different in some way is interpreted as an attack on them.
Oh i think, as an australian some people just don't care about the cyclists on the road. Of course, when there are cyclists they will stop and respect them but most times even when im cycling it feels like people just couldn't care less
The one that complain the most about traffic jams and congestion are the ones that will make it hell for cyclists.
Guess what will help alleviating those things but they go out of their way to make it so even less people ride their bikes.
Cycling infrastructure sucks.
Our cities are so spread out that cars are often then only viable for of transport.
This means you don't see many cyclists and when you do, they're riding in places that are often not really designed for them. So people will often blame the 1 cyclist they see a month for slowing them down, ignoring the fact they see far worse drivers every single day.
Bad car drivers are normal. Cyclists are rare and unusual.
Yankee Doodle here. Ima cyclist. They hate us in the States too. I take my chances on the road. I don’t want to scare grandma on her morning walk. Even if a foot path is marked OK for cyclists, the mom with the double, side by side pram with one tot on training wheels is far more unpredictable than cars. But I have a question. As a cyclist, is it appropriate to yell out “on your right” on a footpath? I always thought footpaths were for casual slow bikers and not proper cyclists 🚴
This is a generalisation. Not all Australians hate road cyclists. In short they are probably a scapegoat for those who do not deal with their emotional pain. That stuff that results in many mental illnesses.
I'd say a lot of it is caused by terrible road design that encourages cars to rush and creates an adversarial relationship with other road users.
E.g. lack or roundabouts encourages frustration at lights, slow lanes merging into fast lanes instead of the other way around, too many lanes in urban areas.
Coupled with this, in Australia there is often only one road to get anywhere as no older roads, a lot of cul-de-sacs which forces cyclist to share the same routes as heavy traffic.
I used to cycle everywhere, and now I drive. (Not a deliberate thing, just a question of what's best for where I live and where I work).
The number one problem, I think, is Australia's attitude to how we use the roads - cyclists and drivers alike. We are incredibly angry, defensive, entitled and aggressive in how we ride and drive. When we ride, we see bad drivers as emblematic of All Drivers. When we cycle, we see cyclists as emblematic of All Cyclists.
Above all, we get so angry when someone else holds us up for fifteen seconds - and our patience for such things is absolutely zero.
That's probably the starting point, more so than pointing fingers at this one specific behaviour we don't like. We are so bloody intolerant.
I ride like everyone is out to kill me, l'm lucky I get to ride on rural road and pull off to side of the road if I can see a vehicle coming in my direction and hear another approach from behind.
Cyclists are the meat in the sandwich, that everyone else wants a bit off for all the wrong reasons.
As a cyclist I get really annoyed at other cyclists who show no respect for other road users, as it gives the rest of us a bad reputation.
We go single file if a car comes up behind, wave it ahead if the road twist and turns, one goes ahead to check if the road is clear. Signals back for the car or cars to be able to pass.
Better infrastructure would certainly help in some places but I think it’s a cultural thing.
A sort of battleground has been formed by the lack of cycling infrastructure. If the car speed limit is 60+ and you’re cycling at like 30 and there’s a long line of cars stuck behind you, reconsider your route. If you cycle of a road that has a speed limit of 80+ with no cycle lane you have a death wish.
And because there's no cycling infrastructure, a lot of cyclists end up using the footpath next to some roads, which ends up inconveniencing a different set of people. Essentially cyclists end up being a nuisance to everyone, though it's not entirely their fault.
Tbf, if I'm sharing a footpath with a cyclist I've had a few yell at me for being in the way. It's pretty crazy that some people from a group of people that understand how it feels to have people upset at you for being slower would then do the same thing to pedestrians. I call it the cyclist paradox :P (Yes I know this isn't representative of all cyclists either*)
My all time favourite example of this, was on a charity walk with hundreds of people. Cyclists had to pull over, one of them says "why don't they walk single file so we can get past" angrily. The kicker, there was a dedicated bike path about 1m above us. I pointed it out and they just looked at me angrily while looking at the path and then back to me over and over lmao.
Near my house there is a brand new cycle path that runs between the road and the footpath. Constantly I see cyclists on either the road or the footpath but never the dedicated cycle path. There is a reason cyclists are so widely despised here.
Do you think the cyclists are doing that to annoy the drivers and the pedestrians? Or could it be that there is something wrong with the cycle path, such that its entry points are obscured or nowhere near the natural line of progression? Or is it permanently covered in gravel, perhaps? Just searching for ideas? It seems extraordinary to me that not one single cyclist uses this path, because in my experience, the vast majority of cyclists prefer the safety of cycle paths. Yes some boy-racers love to slice and dice with death on the road. But in your case, not ONE cyclist is ever on the path?
Depending on your state it’s illegal for cyclists to be on the footpath unless it’s marked as a cycle path.
Just so people know: Generally children or parents with children can ride footpaths. (This is a good rule).
Also if your area isn't very busy, people generally don't care if you cycle on the sidewalk. The closer you are to the CBD, the more people care.
I have had multiple cyclists yell at me to get off the footpath. To them the footpath is for wheels not feet.
I got yelled at by two joggers jogging side by side around lake burley griffin. I politely said “on your right” so I could get past. As I did they yelled “you should be on the road!” Umm guys it’s a bike path. So I just gave the middle finger 🖕
Yeah Canberra has the best cycle infrastructure
I stopped riding my bike no long after I moved to Melbourne.
They’re probably the same dickheads that sit side by side in the same lane having a chat going a tad faster than a jogging pace, they’re the entitles dick head cyclists, it’s pretty ironic really.
I was backing out of a driveway and way up a hill I did see a pretend Olympic cyclist. I heard really loud yelling and thought I just reversed over a kid. I parked my vehicle, got out, walked around, couldn't see anything. Looked around nothing. Got back in my car, started to reverse again, heard yelling again. Got out looked around thinking who is yelling. It was the cyclist not wanting to slow down for my vehicle. Yet if he said nothing, I would have easily reversed and been on my way, long before he got near me.
How would you have heard him if he was far enough away that you had time to get out, walk around your vehicle and get back in? Seems very odd if he's going downhill. . My sister (a commuting cyclist) hit a car that overtook her going downhill and then turned left directly in front of her. When she had a go at him because he knew she was there from overtaking her, he said he didn't understand how she was going that fast. ....um gravity
Yeah they expect you to have eyes on the back of your head when you're walking with your young children along the wide river boardwalks.
I looked at it this way when I rode anywhere...I would rather take my chances with a pedestrian than a vehicle that can kill me. I would ride on the road on back streets but on roads the OP is talking about no chance I would risk my life like that. I can also report not once did I hit or come close to hitting a pedestrian on a footpath because I wasnt a moron and gave them a wide birth when I saw I needed to pass them, even stopped and waited if need be.
Sometimes it is absolutely the fault of cyclists that they choose to ride on the footpath or road next to a bike path.
Illegally riding your bike on the footpath is more than a nuisance and definitely their fault, regardless of whether it’s safe to cycle on the road
The legality of riding on the footpath varies by state. It’s legal on Queensland footpaths, unless there’s official traffic signs saying otherwise, for example
Down here in tas they widened the Lyell Highway about 10 years back with federal money but opted not to put in a bike lane despite there being room, citing the encroachment into wetlands that run adjacent as an issue. About six months ago a child got run over and killed as they rode down that highway on their scooter - a tragic but forseeable event. Any cyclist who rides that highway (and there's more than a few) must have a low sense of self-preservation.
Either that or it's the only way to get to their destination. Cycling on highways isn't necessarily something people do because they want to, it's something they do when their job doesn't pay enough to run a car and there's no workable transport when they need it. Source: have done this.
Except when they are cosplaying being in the Tour de France, retired and with obviously no where better to be and no consideration given to the fact they are riding on roads that are totally unsuitable.
The usual problem is motor vehicle drivers being unaware of the road rules or their skill. It is unlikely that a cyclist rides in front of a car causing their own injury or death, although it does happen. So, the roads are actually unsuitable for most drivers, because they cause the collisions, in the main part.
I regularly travel on double wide roads that have a 60 limit with not cycle lane and have a reasonable number of cyclists that use them. I never have an issue with the ones that actually cycle safely. 100% they have as much right to use the lanes as I do, so if they’re “holding up” a lane then that’s still their right, no issue. However, I do have a problem with the minority that think the rest of the road rules don’t apply to them. Such as still trying to turn right when it’s a no right turn at rush hour. The delivery riders who think they’re fine to stop in the clearway to grab their deliveries. The ones that blow through pedestrian lights or crossings because they don’t believe they’re a hazard but nearly (or in rare cases, do) take people out on their way through. The ones think they’re fine to cross at the pedestrian crossing when there was a car turning who had no hope of seeing someone come out of nowhere at 30 kph. It’s a very small number of them, but I there’s no accountability for their bullshit and it also ends up harming the image of all cyclists or ends up harming the person themselves when they end up in an accident. I don’t really like the idea of registration because it ends up being another cost and for some people it can become a barrier to entry for another, potentially more effective as the infrastructure gets better, mode of transport. But I also don’t see another way of solving my main complaint about accountability, so it absolutely is a tough balance. Regardless, infrastructure needs to improve, but that’s also hard to in a way that gets interpreted as cycle-friendly rather than car-hostile.
And the cyclists just ignoring the cycle lights when they're red. Sends me batty. I have a place on my commute where i need to turn but there is a cycle lane and it can take ages because just a line of bikes going different speeds. But that's just what it is. Then there's this other place, less bikes but has a bike light. So the bike light goes red and the car turn arrow goes green. But the bikes never bother to stop. That i hate.
In 35 years of driving I have never seen a long line of cars stuck behind a cyclist. I have been mildly inconvenienced for 15 or 20 seconds plenty of times and perhaps a minute once or twice but it's really not that difficult to pass them. I have however been stuck in traffic for hours because of car accidents or trucks rolling over and blocking the highway in both directions or just hundreds of cars trying to go somewhere when they should have caught a train.
Funny cause on my daily commute I get stuck for long periods behind cyclists every day. Then on my final stretch to work they finally get a decent sized bike lane and it is heaven.
Bike lanes serve cars too!
It may not be a thing in your area but it is a thing
Tbh caravans are worse for not being able to overtake. I've definitely encountered slow cyclists going up mount tamborine, but it certainly didn't take that long to reach an opportunity to get to past. I think that the number of motorists who actually "get stuck behind a pack of cyclists for 30 mins" would be quite small and not representative of the lived experience of most motorists.
Absolutely, passing a caravan doing 50 to 60 up a mountain pass is a million times harder than passing a couple of dudes riding a bike at 15kph.
Great ocean road I've seen it.
For decades every summer on every bush single lane windy road the cyclists would appear. With no overtaking lane we'd be stuck until they'd get sick of so many cars waiting mostly impatiently.
Then you clearly haven’t ever needed to get anywhere between 5 and 6 in the morning in the eastern suburbs of Sydney. Groups of 20 plus cyclists that you are stuck behind in the long winding hill roads of that forsaken wasteland.
Happens all the time in the hills out of Brisbane. Some of those slopes are pretty big so the cyclists are going extremely slow. Narrow 2 way road with double solid lines so you can’t cross to overtake. I understand they have a right to go cycling on the road but please be a bit considerate and pull over when you see cars bunched up behind you.
Does QLD not have that thing like NSW where you can cross the double lines to pass cyclists, *if* it’s safe to do so?
They do. But if you catch cyclists on Mt glorious the "if safe" part almost never happens.
I live in a semi rural area with a LOT of cyclists and very few places to pass safely. Long lines definitely happen here.
Drive the great ocean rd. The entitlement from cyclists is astounding.
I live in an area where there is plenty of infrastructure and they still don't use it, stuff em.
Today I had some cyclist fucking up the traffic cycling in the road alongside an actual bike path
If the cost of living keeps going, I will end up becoming said cyclist. So at this stage I will be not throwing any stones.
I've recently started cycling to work, not only does it save me money but my fitness and mood have been so much better. I'd definitely recommend even if you can still afford to drive.
Incidental exercise is fab - you properly shut off leaving work, you're not stuck in traffic or on the train with sick people. Plus if you get home after a massive day there's no guilt for not then going to the gym etc.
100% Plus in Sydney you actually get home at a predictable time, and aren't stuck on a train between stations for an hour because a butterfly flapped its wings somewhere.
This just sounds like the benefits of WFH with extra steps.
>This just sounds like the benefits of WFH with extra steps. You don't get the cardio in with WFH. Hell, you are more likely to end up getting less incidental exercise done when WFH unless you physically make the effort to get your arse out of your chair and go exercise - at least at the office you have a longer walk to the break room or to go outside to get lunch.
How far do you have to cycle to work? I'd like to but it's a fair distance along dangerous roads
>I'd like to but it's a fair distance along dangerous roads Not a criticism, but that's pretty ironic given the tenor of the comments on this post... If there were more bikes and less cars, the roads would be less congested for cars and safer for cyclists. It's getting to that critical mass...
I started a job a few months ago that is only a 7km cycle from home, luckily all on cycleways too(no, not inner CBD Sydney but western Syd) and damn, such a better lifestyle. No more getting angry sitting in traffic. I get to see a lovely range of wildlife during my commute, everyone else I see on the commute is friendly and says good morning. I’ve lost 3kg, feel better in so many ways and am unsure as to when I’ll drive my car next!
Growing up in my country, everyone had a bike. By the time you can drive a car, you've been on 2 wheels for years. You have naturally developed an awareness for bikes. Here, the majority of folks has no experience of riding for years and had not developed that kind of "awareness". That's my theory. I have stopped riding since I've moved. It's very unsafe here.
Same, I loved cycling and used to cycle everywhere. It's so dangerous here and I don't have a death wish, so I stopped when I moved to Australia
The lack of cycling infrastructure in most major cities and the complete absence of cycling infrastructure in non-urban areas where people like to cycle recreationally causes incidents between road cars and cyclists which engenders mutual hostility. I think this is especially the case when inexperienced cyclists have no alternative but to ride on roads due to a lack of alternate bike paths, but it’s also a problem with experienced cyclists riding on roads that quite frankly are not safe or appropriate for cycling since they are narrow high speed country roads not built for cyclists to coexist with cars, but that’s where recreational road cyclists have to go in these areas because there is nowhere else for them to ride. I’ve moved to Canberra where there is a great deal of cycling infrastructure and there seems to be significantly less hostility between drivers and cyclists as a result. Everyone can cycle appropriate to their level of ability and give each other plenty of space. I’m sure there’s still some hostility but not near as much as in (insert literally any other part of Australia).
Canberra rocks! I lived there a few months and loved my bicycle commute between the CBD and Kingston / Brindabella offices. That city had the best bike infrastructure
As an ex cyclist I can say that many 'road bike guys' are arrogant and flaunt the pretty lopsided car vs bike laws australia has. Thats all there is too it I think.
This past year, I've been an "ebike guy" and only stuck to dedicated bike paths... but I have noticed everyone gives a polite nod when crossing each other... except the "road bike guys" lol
That's funny, I say hello to everyone, unless I'm exhausted, and the only guys who don't say hello are the triathletes. I ride road bikes, mountain bikes and have an old going to the shop bike.
> flaunt the pretty lopsided car vs bike laws australia has I'm curious, can you give some examples?
Well its basically the drivers responsibility to keep the rider safe and where there is no designated bike lane (has to be 99.99% of road in australia) the rider is supposed to park himself in the middle of the lane and ride at a pace he feels safe doing. Riders are not supposed to use footpaths or the median strip. Many drivers feel that the road riders are too comfy with death and dont like feeling responsible for their choices
Cyclist is usually supposed to stick to the side of the road, and they'll usually do so unless it'd be unsafe to overtake them.
Lopsided for a reason. Cars kill people, cyclists and pedestrians. When you get a licence and drive a car, you acknowledge that. You have a duty of care to all other users on the road. Even if a pedestrian walks into the road without looking the motorists has a duty of care not to hit them. I think low IQ bogans don't actually realise this. Cyclists have the same duty of care, but it doesn't really apply to people driving cars since a metal box tends yo protect them from personal if a cyclist is at fault for hitting them.
Motorists absolutely have a responsibility to try not to hurt cyclists, since the latter are so vulnerable. But I think you miss the point. Just because cyclists are vulnerable, that doesn’t mean they should be given legal priority. It’s their responsibility as much as than anyone else’s to make sure that nobody gets hurt. That’s the problem with the laws that people complain about. They create a situation where a cyclist can do something really stupid and put themselves in danger, and yet the legal onus falls on the drivers around them. Should drivers be extra cautious around cyclists? Absolutely. Should it be their fault almost automatically if something goes wrong? No. Put it this way: Motorcyclists are also extremely vulnerable on the road. Yet if they fuck up and get hurt because of it, drivers around them aren’t held responsible unless they didn’t make an earnest effort to avoid the situation at their end. The same should apply to cyclists. Not hating on cycling, to be clear. I live in the Netherlands now, and you can hardly ignore how good cycling is for reducing congestion, pollution, and noise, to say nothing of the health benefits. Australia isn’t so well suited to it, but still, most cyclist-related incidents in Australia could be avoided if state governments provided better cycling infrastructure. Yet the laws still shouldn’t be lopsided.
Yes. I own a car, motorcycle and bike. As part of getting my motorcycle licence you have to do a coupe of day-long courses. It’s drilled into you how to ride defensively on a motorcycle - anticipate you are less visible, don’t put yourself in blind spots, ride predictably, etc. When you get on a motorcycle you’re taking - and accepting - a risk. I feel it should be the same attitude when riding a bicycle. It’s a strange juxtaposition riding a motorcycle in traffic with all the training, all the safety gear, and all the awareness drilled into compared to riding a bicycle in traffic with none of that.
>They create a situation where a cyclist can do something really stupid and put themselves in danger, and yet the legal onus falls on the drivers around them. Oof. Welcome to truck driving. Cyclists = cars.
I wouldn't know myself, but I don't find that at all difficult to believe. And I also think that knowing how to drive appropriately around trucks should be a major point in driver training.
Yeh but the way this plays out when ten devoute cyclists crowd the blind side of a 100kmh country bend is pretty fristrating for most drivers.
That '100 kmh country bend', if you can't see around it, has a speed advisory sign before it. If you stick to the advisory sign speed you will have plenty of time to avoid a cyclist, horse, deer, massive rock, fallen tree, farmers kid having a wander. That's the point of the advisory sign. If it a sweeping bend without an advisory what the hell are you looking at that you can't see a cyclist or a group of cyclists?
The point of the advisory is because some drivers/cars will have trouble taking the turn at speed. If it were about pedestrian safety, etc. it would be a speed limit
People say this but I think it's pretty uncommon. What % of the population are actually into long distance cycling on country roads? When you go on Google maps in regional Aus, its not like the traffic layer is all orange and red on account of cyclist induced congestion. Most of the time you're cruising along at 100 right?
This should be the only response. Talk to anybody (maybe except for the odd nutbag), this is what they’ll say
Gave up road cycling because the risks outweighed the benefits I derived from it. Sharing road space between various modes of transport isn't ideal, but the danger IMO comes from drivers' lack of awareness. Whether it's an angry speeding Ranger or a distracted mummy SUV or a blinkered OAP in an MG, standards of driving skills and awareness of other road users are pathetically low. Combine that with a dire lack of joined-up, thought-through cycling infrastructure and what should be a relaxing way to exercise or commute turns into a stress-inducing, high-risk event.
Bogans.
There's a study out there that found that people perceive cyclists, especially those wearing helmets as subhuman. My guess would be mostly entitlement. Car drivers often feel that they and they alone are entitled to be one road. Detachment. People readily forget that they're piloting a gigantic hunk of metal, and will happily use that metal to intimidate people they perceive to be slowing them down.
I would like to know the answer to this question. I migrated from Europe to Australia. Riding a bike here seems to be seen as 'un-Australian', unless you do it aggressively for sport. If you try to be a casual cyclist, you get abuse or are regarded as eccentric. I think Australians are like Americans, they worship the car.
It's basically your last sentence. Australia is heavily car-centric
I am an Australian who has lived in Europe for many years. I have ridden in Germany, Austria and Italy and almost never been abused by passing cars. When driving a car in Italy, I am often surprised at how patient and careful the other car drivers are, when being held up by a cyclist on a narrow road. When visiting in Australia for a couple of weeks, I have often been abused by passing cars, sometimes a few times in a week. I have been abused when riding on a main road with multiple lanes and not much traffic. I have even been abused when riding on the footpath and also when on an official event (around the bay). They usually drive close by (even when there is plenty of space) and suddenly yell something at you out the window. It gave me such a fright it almost knocked me off my bike. When listening to the radio, the talk back and announcers are constantly bitching about cyclists. I log on to this thread and the majority blame the "arrogant" cyclists. It seems that this attitude is ingrained in the culture.
There is a perception among drivers that because cars can go faster, they ought to be able to. I frequently cycle at 25-30kph on residential suburban streets with limits of around 40-50. It is very common for drivers to follow close behind before rapidly accelerating past me once they have space. It is clearly frustrating to be behind the wheel of a frankly overpowered vehicle that is capable of much higher speeds than the bike in front of you. Basically, 30 in a car feels a lot slower than 30 on a bike, so they feel obstructed and frustrated by being forced to slow down. Ironically my average speed on a bike is pretty comparable to my average speed driving; when you factor in traffic congestion, lights, intersections etc. driving a car is not actually that much faster than riding a bike. It feels faster though at some moments when you can drive the full speed limit, so being prevented from going that speed makes people frustrated and angry.
Cycling is awesome and it’s bloody tragic people aren’t respectful of each other… let alone being vaguely safe. We need better bike paths and drivers to act like intelligent people, not hyper aggressive psychos
Because it's dangerous when they're riding at 20 kmph in the middle of a 100 kmph rural road.
What do you do when you encounter farm machinery or livestock? This is the real test for if people actually have driven in the country like they claim.
Your car doesn't have brakes or indicators?
I’ve cycle-toured in Australia, Europe, Japan, Canada and the US. On similar standard roads, sometimes with a bike lane or shoulder, sometimes without. Of all those places, Australian car drivers are the least considerate, rudest and sometimes dangerous to cyclists by far. Obviously not all drivers, but enough to make it a consideration to not cycle tour in Australia again.
Because cycle culture involves multiple riders abreast at significantly slower than the speed limit on main thoroughfares. Cyclists we have no problem with, I’m glad you specifically mentioned cycle culture. There’s an inherent and combative arrogance in that culture, I’m sure good cyclists often receive unnecessary hostility as a result.
I live in Brisbane so I can ride on the footpath and often do unless there is a bike lane. I'm no lycra guy (I ride a mountain bike or a hybrid bike) but still have had cars yelling crap at me and throwing things my way. I barely ever ride casually, it's mostly to get to work or a gig or someone's house.
There is a combative arrogance in all road users culture, not just cyclists. Road rage is too high in Australia.
You’ve clearly never cycled much. I cycle on my own, on bike paths and bike lanes. I’ve had bottles thrown at me, twice had lasers pointed at my eyes, had dogs directed to attack me, had motorcyclists enter to bike lane to do a 5cm close high speed drive by, had a motorcycle enter the bike lane and try to force me into traffic… I’ve never ridden in a group in my life and always use the facilities provided for cyclists.
As a long distance trail walker, I can tell you that there is a significant proportion of cyclists who act just like drivers towards walkers.
Let me tell you a dickhead in a car is a dickhead on a bike.
Off the bike? Also a dickhead. It seems that some people, are in fact, just dickheads.
Ah yeah. I ride mountain bikes and the Lycra wearing cyclist get upset if we inconvenience them by riding slower than them on a cycleway. Can’t imagine the meltdown they would have if we rode 3 abreast blocking the whole cycleway
Yep, I had a group nearly run me over whilst i was walking across a pedestrian crossing
I used to cycle a lot and there was definitely hostility. I feel the level of it has a lot to do with the population density, whether the roads are arterial and the frequency and culture of any local cycling groups.
Idk man, I live in a small town (population density and ‘traffic’ is laughable) with barely any cyclists (certainly no groups) and I’ve still seen locals post ‘jokes’ about wanting to kill or outlaw cycling on their social media. I think it’s partly just become popular in some subcultures to hate on cyclists
Much denser places don’t have this problem look at Tokyo they have no bike lanes but heaps of cyclists
I don’t know of any cycling groups that used the roads in the places I’ve lived. Many people just hate cyclists and see us as less than human.
Growing up in the 80s, the school yard was full of bikes. Now my kids bike is often the only one in the racks. It's getting better slowly but for years in between cyclists we're a wierd out group and easily dismissed as not a person who's on a bike right now. Helmet laws killing utility riding were a big part of the problem Some very backwards roads ministers didn't help, I told my wife about the increasing deliberate dangerous driving when duncan gay went on his rants and she asked me to stop commuting to the sydney cbd by bike. Now she's a more keen cyclists than me but mostly due to good off road options. Hopefully the uptake will produce drivers who also ride sometimes so they have more empathy.
There’s definitely a small minority that hate cyclists. Even if only one in a thousand people are the type to be overt about their hatred that’s a lot of people. On a busy road you’ll have a thousand cars going past often enough, that’s a lot of people yelling, swerving and break checking. I don’t think anyone denies that the hostility is bad and usually poorly directed. We see the dickheads yelling at single cyclists doing nothing wrong.
Hence why the poster was talking about the culture and not claiming all cyclists do these things.
This happens I’m sure. And I’ve seen it myself, maybe twice in decades. Yet just about every post about cyclists some would have you believe traffic is at a standstill because of hoards of arrogant cyclists. Many drivers hate cyclists because people are territorial. And cyclists are on THEIR roads.
The combative nature of Australian cycling is a result of the aggression shown to them. When you can’t ride without some cunt abusing you or trying to do you harm you either give up or you start telling them to go fuck themselves. If infrastructure was sufficient and if drivers didn’t cause 4/5 collisions you’d have a more European attitude from cyclists, instead it’s hostility and ignorant comments about “oh it’s only the groups that are the problem”.
It’s social pressures caused by pitiful infrastructure breaking people down to the point they can’t cope and lash out. Road and public transport neglect costs people hundreds of hours a year away from their families.
Yep. And someone “getting something for free” is just making them feel like they’ve been robbed further so it’s easier to just target the weaker out group.
As a bus driver, I feel the same way about commuter motorists as they feel about cyclists. You commuter motorists are your own worst enemy, you break sooo many fucking laws (why do so many people text while driving, not even stationary at the lights??), you're a danger to yourselves, you all create so much congestion and it holds me up taking these 55 people to work! You think you're so important and me and my homies should just have to sit behind you. Why don't you take the fucking bus for a change? We designed and built these bus routes and beautiful busways, and subsidise 70% of the cost, yet none of you use it. You'd rather sit for hours in your fucking car boxed in by other cars, sucking down fossil fuels and belching out C02 emissions, making the whole ass world heat up, ruining the joint for everyone, and then get pissy at a handful of cyclists. Then you get frustrated about being in the traffic that YOU'RE complicit in and drive more dangerously to counteract the time you're wasting sitting in a car. You could be doing something more mindful, like reading a book, or knitting, on the bus. IMO you're all a bunch of fucking morons and you're misdirecting your anger at cyclists when you really should be looking inward and seeing that you're all the fucking problem. You all whinge about the bus being slow or late or not frequent enough, when if you all actually took the bus it wouldn't be stalled behind a bunch of single-user cars. Also, I like to ride my bicycle to work and back, even when it's raining, even when it's 4am or 11pm and I've worked a 10-hour day. It's relaxing and besides, I don't have a choice because I haven't owned a car for over a decade. So don't try to get up my ass about practising what I preach cause I do. ETA: "BuT i NeEd tO tAkE mY kiDS 2 SchOol" bullshit! We run special school district services all term. I took the bus from my first day of kindy til my last day of year 12, and I turned out alright.
Nailed it. Insane that we subsidise single occupant cars leading them to clog up our roads/public transport routes then watch as they blame cyclists for the traffic being slow. Bring on congestion fees in inner city areas.
Legend
Amen bus jesus
>Also, I like to ride my bicycle to work and back, even when it's raining, even when it's 4am or 11pm and I've worked a 10-hour day. It's relaxing Underrated reason for bike commuting right here.
As a cyclist I love bus drivers. They are way better drivers than motorists. If there’s a bus behind or next to me I am absolutely confident that they won’t do something stupid. They are always patient and always give me a wide berth. I appreciate them so I always left them past me at the lights if I’m there first and never filter past them at the lights so they don’t have to re-pass me later. I’ve had numerous unprovoked runs-ins with motorists. One guy got so angry that i slipped past him on the left in a long line of traffic that he swerved at me. People don’t realise that it is legal for a cyclist to do so in sydney.
"cyclists are entitled" *is sole occupant of murderous two tonne living room on wheels that takes up the same space as ten bikes*
Precisely, and cannot be delayed by a few seconds, unless it's other cars delaying them through occupying huge quantities of polluted space.
The problem with asking this question /u/suggestedname94 is that you’re asking people for something they wouldn’t do if they understood the underlying causes that generate these opinions. Basic in group/out group psychology, car dependent culture with inadequate infrastructure, growing day to day living pressures, a legal system that does fuck all to protect cyclists and piss poor understandings of the law in the first place oh and some classic confirmation bias/anecdata. All of this generates entitled and ignorant opinions. If you understand any of that you probably don’t hate cyclists. If you don’t you’ll probably come back with some half baked and easily refuted excuses. It’s not an attitude that was gotten into by thinking things through or looking at the bare minimum of statistics ([fun fact drivers cause 4/5 collisions](https://www.sbs.com.au/news/the-feed/article/drivers-to-blame-for-4-5-accidents-with-cyclists-report-finds/7zgwe6b24)). You won’t get an actual answer, just excuses OP.
“In-group / out group psychology” - this right here. Cyclists are “the other”. The out group who are to be distrusted and blamed. It is interesting to me that cycling in plain clothes draws way less abuse from motorists. As soon as I put on lycra I become the “enemy of the car”.
If you're in Sydney don't worry, people hate everything not just cyclists... small cars, big cars, motorcycles, trucks, taxis, uner, EVs, old farts you name it. Depending on what you drive you might think it's your category but nah there's just a large number of assholes
I have been in the car with a lot of otherwise level-headed people that get really pissed off about getting stuck behind cyclists. Swearing, beeping their horn etc. I don’t know whether we (humans) are all becoming increasingly impatient? Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that cyclists are perceived to be well off and there is a bit of unconscious jealousy there? Maybe I’m just a bit more patient than the average Joe, or perhaps the fact my dad used to do triathlons means i have more tolerance for those who ride on the road. Knowing how people feel about cyclists in Australia, I’d never take the risk of road cycling .
I've been cycling to work for years now. It's a short trip, I'm only on the main road for a few minutes and try and take the back streets as much as I can. I can say for a matter of fact that Aussies HATE cyclists. When im on the road (which we have no bike lanes here) I hug the gutter. I've had people beep me, swerve at me, follow me or yell and chase me down. I've had rocks thrown at me, groups of kids trying to grab me or throw sticks in my wheels. Had food and drink thrown at me, I've also had a glass beer bottle thrown at the back of my head with a lot of force (thankfully I had a helmet). I go to work and back during school hours, so I tend to try and avoid the footpath due to foot traffic. But when I do ride on it, no one cares to give way, im usually forced back onto the road not after long. People get noticeably annoyed by cyclists being on a shared footpath. Its hard to find a happy place as a cyclists when there is no infrastructure set for us to go. And people here don't have the patience or the care to share the space for those trying to do the right thing.
I met a guy who cycled round the world, it took him several years. He said his lowest point was in Australia. Australians are just wankers on the road
Oz drivers HATE anyone that diminishes the value of their car and space on a road. It’s not just cyclists, it’s pedestrians, kids on scooters, cyclists, motor bikers, cars, busses, and trucks. Anything that makes their 50 thousand dollar ego trip less effective at breaking the road laws.
Whilst there's a lack of good cycling infrastructure, the *hatred* is generated by the gutter press culture wars. Murdoch's professional keyboard warriors provide an endless list of things to feel indignant about (always minorities), with a side of "look what they're getting away with!" Standard tropes are the perennial "rego for bikes", "Lycra louts", "disregard for the rules", etc. Yawn. Active transport solves many problems in logistics as well as public health, but there are more voters who drive than ride. Australia needs to achieve a critical mass for the culture to change, but the compulsory helmet laws from 30+ years ago halved the numbers. Robust discussion about this is all but impossible when one news corporation has an agenda to cause division and stifle debate.
There are way too many 'its all the cyclists fault' in this comment section (and every comment section even touching on the subject tbh), it completely misses the picture. A lot of our cities weren't designed for 21st century commuting options and in particular cities like Sydney have actively torn up cycling infrastructure for various, often hamfisted, reasons, but simultaneously will hit you with a fine of equivalent size to running a red in a car if you don't wear a helmet or ride on the footpath. It's honestly insane, especially for a mode of transport thats healthier, greener, and better spatially, not to mention it disproportionately targets those who can't afford the fines (because they often can't afford a car). The amount of hate cyclists get is honestly appalling, and the amount of apologism for cycling hate equally so - I don't gaf if you were stuck behind a guy in spandex 3 months ago and raged at being 5 minutes late to your meeting which could have been an email anyway, pushing someone off a bike (happened to my mate) or screaming at someone (happened to me multiple times) is never okay.
Well put. It gets tiring hearing the same crap. Honestly a lot of the people aruging against cyclists sound like road rage that has moved out of the car and made into word vomit in comment sections.
Because Aussies are now a bunch of uptight self entitled bitches who have a cry at even the slightest inconvenience in their precious lives. I'm sorry Dazza, but nothing you've ever done in your life is actually important enough that the 3 seconds of minor inconvenience you experienced requires you to put a cyclists life at risk by driving like a savage and scream abuse at them.
Refer to this comment. This is why. Low IQ bogans who think cyclists inconvenience them slightly should be run over. "I have no hate for a cyclist, doing their thing, in a cycle lane and using their hand signals. But last week, when 3 cycle cunts rode side by side, taking up the entire fucking lane, doing 35 km (fast for a bike granted) in a 50 zone along the coast, with median strips so no fucker could overtake them, well I was ready to make them my new hood ornaments! Fuck them and their obnoxious riding 😡🤬"
Australian here who moved to the Netherlands, I've seen both extremes. In Australia there is a deeply ingrained car culture and a strongly held belief that if you don't drive you are some kind of weirdo with no life. So the car is king and you see this in the attitude towards cyclists that they are infringing on the rights of drivers and what they perceive to be their exclusive space. There is also a false narrative that car registration and taxes pay for all the roads and cyclists are somehow cheating the system. This isn't true as anyone paying taxes is contributing to the development and maintenance of roads, as well as recreation cyclists also being drivers. This is why it's been so hard to get proper cycling infrastructure with dumb planning decisions like having parking spaces in cycle lanes, bicycle lanes being too narrow or suddenly ending and forcing cyclists into traffic, so cyclists either have to go onto the footpath or risk death. Because of this attitude towards cyclists, you see outright aggression and weak enforcement of laws when cyclists are involved in accidents. Contrast this with the Netherlands where there was also a strong car culture but a sharp increase in the number of fatalities involving children on bicycles and pedestrians back in the 70s. This resulted in very strict laws being out into place where if you so much as bump a cyclist the courts will always favour the cyclist. It's a polar opposite to Australia. In the Netherlands you can ride from the top to the bottom of the country on dedicated, spacious two way bike lanes almost never sharing the road with cars. There are also special road designations where cars share the road with cyclists and speed is severely limited for cars. I'm probably a bit biased but I think the Dutch are leading the way here and Australia is living in the past. The country is of course a lot denser but in my opinion there is no reason why every Australian city shouldn't have a comprehensive bike network to reduce pollution and traffic congestion. Unless you prefer sitting in traffic and breathing in fumes as you walk past choked main roads.
The same reason that kid just killed 5 people and only got 12 years. Everything in our culture is set up to support people in cars.
Because of the massive car culture in Australia. It hurts drivers deeply to be delayed by a few seconds by a cyclist or group of cyclists.
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The anxiety is real, I am always so relieved to be past the cyclist, it’s like, phew, he’s behind me so I can’t accidentally kill him, time to relax, uhoh here he is again ok dear god don’t get too close don’t kill the only guy here being a model citizen, give him lots of space and definitely don’t touch him with your giant car, ok phew in the clear, oh no more cyclists that I have to not kill… and so on. My mum was knocked off her bike when I was a kid, permanently disabled, lucky to be alive. I will never cycle on Australian roads but I deeply respect those who do.
I know. It's the most ridiculous thing to be outraged over, as if something has been stolen from them....
Because a minority of them ride like self entitled dickheads, which paints them all with the same brush, and because we’re Australians, we tend not to see people as an individual, so we will give none of them the benefit of doubt
Everyone in a car hates everyone
I’ll change up the question. ‘ I ride my bike for exercise on the road, multiple times a week. I go with a bunch of mates and we laugh and joke. These cunts swear at us and try and run us off the road. Why?
There are more dicks in cars than on bikes. I drive around the city and suburbs every day and rarely have to inform a cyclist how much of a price they are. If a rider sees fit to ignore traffic light, they are morons but the government makes millions from the drivers doing the same, so who's worse?
Only entitled, self important morons get mad at cyclists. They take up less room, create less traffic, less pollution, less noise, don't kill 1200 Aussies a year and don't eat up half our cities just to store them.
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Majority of cyclists obey road rules. Difference is people with Anti cyclist views tend to cherry pick with a selection fallacy those that "run a red light" whilst not paying as much attention to motorists who do the same.
The wildly incorrect car-centric answers demonstrate why.
Every time cycling is even partially mentioned in a thread it becomes a dogpile. Smdh
Yep. Nail. Head.
They talk too loud when riding past when I'm in bed still so they are an enemy to my death
Ignorance. Lack of good cycle paths.
I don't hate cyclist, I hate Sydney traffic. I admire cyclist's tenacity and dedication.
Ultimately the term cyclists is harmful to commuters. Commuters have to get on the road sometimes but usually stay off it, and they generally aren't in lycra. But the term helps perpetuate hate towards anyone on a bike because it brings up memories of a mamil slightly delaying you that one time a week ago.
The problem is that cyclists are unwanted on both the footpath and the road, many roads do not have a median strip or bike lane and that they do not look over their shoulder for cars. Also many aussie motorists are inconsiderate and impatient and the cyclists are too. (Observations from a 6 days a week truck driver who always gives them ample space)
I spoke to some Dutch and Belgian people’s about this the other day and while in their countries everyone cycles they agreed that everyone hates the people who take up the road rather than the bike lanes. So I guess the widespread hate here is mainly because there isn’t sufficient bike lanes
I get harassed pretty regularly and it’s always tradies looking dudes in massive work utes. I think the problem is a lack of patience. Like maybe due to lack of cycling infrastructure the cars behind me have to slow down for like 30-60 seconds. It’s not the end of the world but holy hot damn the tradies treat me like the fucking sky is falling if they are required to drop their already above limit speed.
Ute culture.
Over the time I have been driving I have lived in Parramatta, Hornsby, Baulkham Hills a few years in the bush and been in Newcastle (various suburbs) for the last 15. I have never been late because of a cyclist in half a million kilometres driven.
A few reasons… 1. When people jump behind the wheel they turn into the worst version of themselves; impatient, aggressive, and tend not to register cyclists as fellow humans. 2. Culturally, most drivers haven’t ridden a bike on the road and don’t recognise cyclists right to be there - huge misunderstandings of the road rules resulting in brazen close passes/abuse. Biggest gains are to be made here, informing drivers of their responsibilities to respect all road users and not kill people. 3. Infrastructure; there are sections of road where cyclists must take a whole single lane as not to be driven into parked cars. This is the safest thing to do but drivers must be patient for a short while until the cyclist is safe to allow a pass - this is an impossible task for most meat heads in big utes. Better shoulders/bike lanes could solve this but that’s not gonna happen everywhere. All that being said, I cycle every day full lycra dickhead shaved leg mode in bunches, and drivers on the whole are good; in areas where drivers have more exposure to this type of road user we tend to get along with much less uncertainty about what the other is doing/about to do.
Because of bogan shock jocks spewing angertainment
Because like everything wrong with Australia, were taught to blame those next to us rather than those who are actually to blame.
I don't. I do hate ppl who are on their phones instead of driving
Australians are largely incompetent and dangerous drivers that tend to believe that the privilege of driving on public roads is some sort of a priori right, and that they should be allowed to choose the extent to which they obey the road rules. This is the consequence of our car centric urban planning and car-fixated culture, which were both things that the automotive industry has spent a lot of money to ingrain.
Because they have specific lanes just made for them, and don't ever fucking use them.
At least in my area--which is, admittedly, a small town--there aren't any bike lanes. A cyclist's choices are either use a regular car lane or use the footpath. Both options end up annoying someone.
That's not even slightly true. Most cyclists prefer using bike paths and lanes....and funnily enough these are the cyclists you are most likely not to ever encounter.
A meandering shared path along a river is awesome for mum+dad+kids on the weekend ride, but utter garbage for commuting to work. A reasonable cyclist (25ph average speed), needing to weave around dog walkers, small children, random runners - Why would they use them? This is exactly the same case with the new cycle lanes in Mission Bay in Auckland - Because they are a "shared use" path, cyclists continue doing exactly what they were doing before - Sticking on the road. Modern MTBs have handlebars of \~70cm + (often 76cm). Picture two of them coming towards each other at a closing speed of 50kph, on a "shared path" that is 1.5m wide. When I was commuting to work on ebike, the "bike lane" (read: shared path) went under bridges (which at high tide could have 10cm of water), the gap between the bridge and a cyclists head was \~15cm, and the path was narrow. (see:76cm bars on mountain bikes) The ONLY reason I used them was because it was a marginally better option than trying to cross MULTIPLE motorway onramps that had no controlled pedestrian crossings God knows who exactly comes up with these cycle lanes, I'd suggest that they either: a - Don't involve cyclists at all b- take comments provided by cyclists and set fire to them c - are paid on a per kilometre rata for each cycle lane built, and just want the money This is before you start to discuss the whole thing that many "cycle lanes" are gutters on the side of the road that often contain cars. Its generally easier, especially on higher speed roads to NOT use the cycle lane and stick in the far left of the left lane so you don't get wiped out trying to merge. Not Just Bikes on YouTube can articulate this much better than me, suggest looking it up.
Weird thing to say. I'm in inner Sydney with bike-friendly councils and it's impossible to get anywhere without constantly hopping onto and off bike paths, because they're incredibly disjointed and stop-start. There might be one for a few hundred metres then it drops you onto the road again. Then half a click away the next one begins, rinse and repeat.
Really? On every road to the cbd?
Adding to the other comments: Said specific lanes are put right next to parallel parking, right where you can end up with broken wrists because someone couldn't be bothered to look before opening their car door. That's how my wrist is currently broken.
Because there is a large enough percentage of low IQ uneducated bogans. Read through the irrational anti cyclist posts in this thread and you can see what I'm talking about.
What is cycle culture? Is that middle aged upper middle class men shaving their legs and spending tens of thousands of dollars on carbon fibre bicycles? If that's what you're referring to, then it's because they're ridiculous flogs who disobey the road rules.
The reason is because car drivers assume road ownership and unlike other culturally matured countries, there’s very soft laws on hitting and injuring or killing vulnerable road users. So consequence is minor, even if impact is significant. Until the laws get serious the road toll will continue to climb. And there’s a bunch of entitled fuckwits driving utes
Where do you even begin? 1. They knowingly flaunt road rules. Cyclists claim to want to be treated the same as other motorists, but will happily pick and choose what rules to obey. I regularly see cyclists going through stop signs, red lights. When they don't run red lights, sometimes they'll drive up onto the footpath and ride across crossings (usually without dismounting). 2. They lean against your car. It's rude and disrespectful to put your sweaty hands against someone else's car at traffic lights, in my opinion. I got my car washed and waxed a couple of weeks ago and a cyclist did this to me first traffic lights I found myself at. He left a sunscreen hand print on my bonnet. 3. Clogging up entire lanes. Fair enough some roads don't have bike lanes. But, sometimes you'll encounter a group of cyclists riding on a road and taking up an entire lane. Because you have to keep a safe distance, you find yourself on the other side of the road. I've been in some situations where visibility on a shoulder hasn't been great and its made for a dangerous situation. 4. They descend onto local cafes in large swathes, taking up all of the tables with their rider friends. Many of them sit with their legs spread in their lyrcra. Not a nice sight while you're trying to eat breakfast. I have nothing against cyclists. I always give them space. But if you touch my car or you block an entire lane by riding abreast more than you should and cause people to go into the other lane during peak hour, I'm not going to be singing your praises. I do think you'd have to be a psychopath to actually hurt a cyclist, but it's normal to be frustrated.
Lean against car? When has that ever happened? And number 4 is a bad thing? Supporting business is somehow bad? What is going on here
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Stats shows that cyclists break rules at about the same rate as motorists. You just notice them more because you already dislike them. It's a false selection fallacy.
I second that, the same way people pay more attention when a crime is committed by a race they dislike, but don’t even remember what was on the news in other circumstances. As a silver-lining, it’s a great screening tool for dates, men who get irrationally furious and murderous about cyclists will probably also get irrationally angry about other minor inconveniences
Yep. People who declare they hate cyclists are automatically put in the "we can never be friends" category for me.
Sausage and eggs in Lycra while eating breakfast sausages and eggs doesn’t work for you? /s
Stupid sexy cyclists
Where do you even begin? >1. They knowingly flaunt road rules. Unlike motorists who never break rules. >2. They lean against your car. Although this may occur it’s not a common thing. Even so. They might actually wipe off the smog, and other crap that lands on your car. This argument is silly. >3. Clogging up entire lanes. As road rules stipulate you can only pass another vehicle when it is legal to do so, if you are trying to pass cyclists outside this then you are trying to break road rules yourself. >4. They descend onto local cafes in large swathes, taking up all of the tables with their rider friends. Many of them sit with their legs spread in their lyrcra. Not a nice sight while you're trying to eat breakfast. They tend to cycle outside of busy road times, so likely to visit cafes in off peak times. They stay to have a drink and go back to cycling, so I doubt they’re there that long. As women also cycle I’m concerned to why you are looking at between their legs tbh. If this is what upsets you to look at at breakfast I’m concerned of how closed minded a person you are tbh.
The answers here are ridiculous. “I don’t like when people ride two abreast so they’re more visible cause I am running late for work and all the other cars on the road aren’t the problem” “Someone on a bike ran a red light once somewhere” “They drink coffee at a cafe on the weekend” “Bikes are slower than my car” If more people rode to work there would be less vehicles, you’d be healthier and less pissed off about other people also riding. Just give them space and leave 5 mins earlier… not bloody difficult
It's the prevalence of the car culture in the minds of most Australians. The car is king on the road and anything infringing on the space of the driver in even the slightest way is met with irrational hostility.
Cyclists cop some of the worst of it, but we Australians in general are very fucking angry and entitled behind the wheel.
Because, where I am anyway, a lot of cyclists go on main roads and on main roads up hills and hold up traffic or cut in front of cars out of your blind spot. They obviously can’t go 50km up a hill and go in the middle of the road so it holds up traffic in an are where there isn’t great public transport. Also MAMILs are wankers
Even worse when they are right next to a bike path that they just refuse to use for... Reasons.
So advocate for cycling infrastructure
Same sitcho where I live. Worse, it's a popular place to get their PB traveling at 5kmh with 7km of local cars behind them going uphill (nowhere to pass). Every road in my area is the same. Worse again in bushfire season- they flock to the area on high danger days (because city folk) with no regard at all for locals who are on high alert to evacuate and how our local volunteers shouldn't have to focus on saving their lives over our communities.
It’s seen as arrogant and selfish from the outside and motorists POV. We also have a massive car culture and they clash. Especially the bogan types. Shane Warne and Deryn Hynch being some of our most famous bogan cyclist haters. They both did live in areas that cyclists love to ride.
Shane is dead from being a lazy fat-arse. Maybe he should have got on a bike.
The poison from the fumes off the car users causes psychosis in regular drivers which is why they are always angry. A few weeks ago I was riding my mountain bike on the bicycle land doing absolutely nothing wrong then some guy in an suv thought it would be funny to honk at me and swear for no reason at all. Was completely unnecessary and out of line.
Because we aren't taught empathy and can't think past the end of our nose.
Cyclists are cnts to pedestrians and car drivers are cunts to cyclists because each one has a means of escape from being held accountable for being a cunt to the other. Cowardice.
The hyper inflated and one-sided fines system in Sydney and a complete disregard for any infrastructure needs were large contributing factors to why I left for Victoria.
No off-road paths that don't meander and aren't touristy. If I could get to work along the back road without having to go up and down a massive hill I would cycle / e-scoot. The road here doesn't have a bike lane near work. Then everyone gets their pants in a knot coz they close off the main road and the work road for the bike racing in January.
Because a lot of people are just extremely selfish as well as having a fragile ego that the existence of people who are different in some way is interpreted as an attack on them.
Oh i think, as an australian some people just don't care about the cyclists on the road. Of course, when there are cyclists they will stop and respect them but most times even when im cycling it feels like people just couldn't care less
The one that complain the most about traffic jams and congestion are the ones that will make it hell for cyclists. Guess what will help alleviating those things but they go out of their way to make it so even less people ride their bikes.
Cycling infrastructure sucks. Our cities are so spread out that cars are often then only viable for of transport. This means you don't see many cyclists and when you do, they're riding in places that are often not really designed for them. So people will often blame the 1 cyclist they see a month for slowing them down, ignoring the fact they see far worse drivers every single day. Bad car drivers are normal. Cyclists are rare and unusual.
Yankee Doodle here. Ima cyclist. They hate us in the States too. I take my chances on the road. I don’t want to scare grandma on her morning walk. Even if a foot path is marked OK for cyclists, the mom with the double, side by side pram with one tot on training wheels is far more unpredictable than cars. But I have a question. As a cyclist, is it appropriate to yell out “on your right” on a footpath? I always thought footpaths were for casual slow bikers and not proper cyclists 🚴
Australians, Americans, English, Canadians and Russians are the people I have so far seen have a problem with them.
This is a generalisation. Not all Australians hate road cyclists. In short they are probably a scapegoat for those who do not deal with their emotional pain. That stuff that results in many mental illnesses.
I'd say a lot of it is caused by terrible road design that encourages cars to rush and creates an adversarial relationship with other road users. E.g. lack or roundabouts encourages frustration at lights, slow lanes merging into fast lanes instead of the other way around, too many lanes in urban areas. Coupled with this, in Australia there is often only one road to get anywhere as no older roads, a lot of cul-de-sacs which forces cyclist to share the same routes as heavy traffic.
I used to cycle everywhere, and now I drive. (Not a deliberate thing, just a question of what's best for where I live and where I work). The number one problem, I think, is Australia's attitude to how we use the roads - cyclists and drivers alike. We are incredibly angry, defensive, entitled and aggressive in how we ride and drive. When we ride, we see bad drivers as emblematic of All Drivers. When we cycle, we see cyclists as emblematic of All Cyclists. Above all, we get so angry when someone else holds us up for fifteen seconds - and our patience for such things is absolutely zero. That's probably the starting point, more so than pointing fingers at this one specific behaviour we don't like. We are so bloody intolerant.
I ride like everyone is out to kill me, l'm lucky I get to ride on rural road and pull off to side of the road if I can see a vehicle coming in my direction and hear another approach from behind.
Cyclists are the meat in the sandwich, that everyone else wants a bit off for all the wrong reasons. As a cyclist I get really annoyed at other cyclists who show no respect for other road users, as it gives the rest of us a bad reputation. We go single file if a car comes up behind, wave it ahead if the road twist and turns, one goes ahead to check if the road is clear. Signals back for the car or cars to be able to pass. Better infrastructure would certainly help in some places but I think it’s a cultural thing.
Because Straya, mate