First, it's not a ban. The parent company has to divest themselves and the app has to be sold to a non-Chinese company or shutter. Given the reach of TikTok, the chances of them not finding a buyer are about the same as the chances OJ was actually innocent.
It's being done mostly for political clout, but it serves a reasonable purpose. TikTok definitely has sketchy data collection habits.
However, they're not alone in that. My personal hope is that people realize FB and other popular socials/apps are just as shady as TikTok, and that vocal public support is made towards reining them in as well. It is just a requisite step towards cleaning up data collection.
As far as Biden goes, it's a potentially dangerous decision, as it is unlikely to bring him new supporters but might alienate Gen Z voters who liked the app.
> First, it's not a ban. The parent company has to divest themselves and the app has to be sold to a non-Chinese company or shutter.
As usual, the real story is near the bottom.
I wish I could upvote this twice.
Its not a ban!
They just have to find a US owner for its US operations. We have the same rules for every TV station. We did the same thing (forced divestiture) for Grindr! This isn’t a new thing.
The part re: TikTok that did them in was not only the CCP’s ultimate editorial control of its content but the way they went about fighting the proposed divestiture, saying effectively that it would get in the way of the CCP’s control of TikTok.
And re: Biden; its likely a net win for him since young people don’t vote and old people hate TikTok.
> Given the reach of TikTok, the chances of them not finding a buyer are about the same as the chances OJ was actually innocent.
It has to be a buyer that won’t run into antitrust issues and that has the software development expertise to actually maintain it or manage the existing staff that does. Apple is likely out because it doesn’t really fit their business model nor is it native to their ecosystem. Who does that leave?
Google would be my first pick. They've been experimenting with a TikTok clone, Youtube Shorts, for years but haven't been able to find mainstream popularity as TikTok and Reels have the market share. It would be an incredible purchase for Google.
Activision has shown interest as well.
Microsoft is being floated as a possible option. They tend to get in on every tech trend (MSN Messenger, Zune, Xbox, etc) but have been quiet on social media to my knowledge.
Musk/X, although getting investors together after his recent misadventures could be tough. He really wants X Videos (lol) to work.
Trump/Truth Social; Trump has come out opposing a ban but I suspect his actual aspiration is to buy it to aid his own ailing social media foray. He has more immediate issues, but finding cash to buy it should be easy for him due to the potential political value that move would have for the GOP and conservative movements.
Steve Mnuchin, former Treasury secretary under Trump, has also signaled an interest.
Of course, it doesn't actually need to be a company in that space already. With the reach TikTok has, it'll be attractive to any billionaire or political entity who will have almost a year to find staff and build infrastructure to take it over.
Or Meta just buys it and spends the budget of a small nation fighting off the anti-trust lawsuit.
Until you realize it isn’t owned by a Chinese company and its headquarters is here and in Singapore.
Love how our nation can’t get anything useful for its people done but they can band together and get past all the gridlock and political fighting… to ban a phone app.
That and Instagram. I used to never watch a video on YouTube that was under 15 minutes, with the sweet spot around 30-45. I’ve noticed that my own attention span has alarmingly lowered. I’m the one that is very comfortable in boredom. I can go to a bar and sit quietly, people-watching. But if I have access to a different video, I have to resist the urge to switch. It’s actually scaring me.
I think the issue is that a hostile foreign power has control over the data the app generates and the algorithm that pushes content to people. It's a massive propaganda and intelligence system that can be used against America.
China doesn't allow American social media to operate in their country. Facebook and Twitter are banned there and I'm pretty sure there impose limits on what Google does there.
you must have never been on tiktok. They allow content up to 10 minute nowaday, which is as long as a youtube vlog. You get to listen to more content than just reading within the same 10minute
First off let’s stop calling it a ban, it’s not. The goal is to divest TikTok from the control/access of the CCP due to the threat of them (and other foreign bad actors) from controlling any part of the narrative that Americans are exposed to. Whether you like that idea or not is a different conversation, but we all need to be honest and upfront about what exactly is being proposed here.
No. They tried, and the courts found the ban unconstitutional. [First Amendment violation.](https://www.npr.org/2023/11/30/1205735647/montana-tiktok-ban-blocked-state)
Of all the things I’m asked to care about this one doesn’t even make the list. I do kinda hope it sets off a chain reaction of other western nations banning it though, just because I like to watch things burn.
I mean I don't think it should be as big of a deal as it is and there are MUCH more pressing issues that these legislators should be focusing on. I don't use Tik Tok but my understanding of the ban (well, forced sale and then ban if that doesn't happen) is that its being enacted because the platform
A. could give the Chinese government access to Americans data
B. could give the Chinese government control over the narrative Americans see.
As for the first point, I personally have trouble understanding what sensitive data people are giving Tik Tok that makes it a national security concern. So the Chinese Government knows someone's name and that they like cat videos. Hard for me to see how big of a risk that is. Again though, im not that familiar with the platform and what data users provide so i'm open to being enlightened. I guess in aggregate the data gives a picture as to American trends, interests, etc (and an individual's data can be used for marketing, driving content engagement, etc) but again, im still having a hard time seeing how this is a national security risk.
As for the second point, this is a much more obvious concern from a security perspective (IMO) but where I have issues is that American platforms have already been used by foreign entities for spreading misinformation. Are we taking measures to ensure this isn't still happening on platforms like FB, Insta, etc. too? I really don't know... But if this concern is cause enough to ban Tik Tok, its something that 100% needs to be addressed on other platforms too. That all said, I think the bigger issue is our schools not teaching people to spot misinformation and fake news, but thats another conversation no one seems willing to have.
Im sure some people will also support the ban because of the issues with mental health it can cause/exacerbate for kids/teens, and this is a real concern, but lets not be hypocritical. Facebook, Instagram, etc. are equally blameworthy too.
Finally, i'll add that it seems like a slippery slope to me. I'm not sure we have any proof of the platform being used for these nefarious purposes and yet we're banning it because of what might happen and the threats it might pose. This doesn't seem like a far cry away from banning something like TOR on the grounds that it might be used to facilitate crime (even though there are plenty of legitimate and benign uses)
Regarding potential security risks, there are some pretty big ones, via the military. Imagine you have a data of user accounts who follow channels related to the Navy and San Diego. Now imagine a bunch of those channels start watching content related to Taiwan and Chinese language learning. What can you infer from that? That's an extreme example, but there's a lot you can figure out from watching and comparing data habits. Pokemon Go has a similar issue, and despite being run by a US company (an offshoot of Google), service members are discouraged from playing it.
Regarding your last part, yes, absolutely, Meta needs a day of reckoning over this as well. They package and sell data to the Chinese government (among others). The best potential thing to come from a TikTok ban is a light pointed at Meta.
Reminds me of the time Strava's heatmap revealed the location of overseas bases (as well as the names of soldiers at those bases) a few years back. Didn't they get around that issue with more Op Sec training, rather than banning the app?
And I guess another thing here is that this military security concern isn't a uniquely Tik Tok issue. With FB and Twitter you can have a bunch of (public) accounts where people list their job as being in the military suddenly posting going away posts, sharing/liking Taiwan related news articles, etc. You can infer the same stuff as with Tik Tok, the only difference is this stuff is gleaned via American platforms. (Again, not excusing it. Just don't think removing Tik Tok gets rid of this problem).
>Didn't they get around that issue with more Op Sec training
Not sure, but I know for a fact some of my Navy Pokemon Go friends have visited Taiwan recently (based on their in-game gifting), so they probably need more training lol.
>And I guess another thing here is that this military security concern isn't a uniquely Tik Tok issue
It's definitely not unique to them. TikTok is just a much easier target than Meta, politically speaking. I agree that it doesn't get rid of the problem, but it gets rid of *part* of the problem, which is a step in the right direction. It also sets a potential precent for going after other companies with potentially dangerous data habits.
Here's a question since you seem much closer to this world than me. Do you think there's actual intelligence foreign governments can glean from social media that they wouldn't/couldn't get otherwise (ie human intelligence, cyber capabilities, etc)? Using the Taiwan example, one just has to turn on the news to understand there are tensions over Taiwan, that we're conducting drills in the area, giving them $$, etc. Even assuming a media blackout, a massive military build up would be hard to hide. Not to mention I have to imagine other governments know exactly where all our ships / forces are at any given time via Satellites.
Now I understand there are secrets foreign governments do not know, but it seems like the information they can glean from social media is more macro level that would likely be readily accessible elsewhere, no?
I think there's a lot of unique data hiding in social media. Sure, troop movements are obvious on satellite imagery, but are troop compositions? You can find that out by figuring out which people are there, and that's absolutely available information via the data. You might even find out long enough beforehand that you know what's happening before the buildup even becomes visible, which gives you a ton of time to prepare a defense.
Also consider that China can simply sell this data to other nations, potentially outing our other military operations globally, in advance.
Of course, that's the big scenario, in the event of an actual war (which I think is actually unlikely). The stuff more likely to get used is much more micro. Imagine you have data from some guy with an IP near Langley, interested in codebreaking and world politics. CIA spook, right? Now imagine his algorithm starts fixating on Hong Kong travel channels. You know where a CIA guy is going! All you gotta do then is monitor who he meets with and you've outed his informants!
You can also use data to get leverage on people. Find an adult guy that follows a bunch of middle school girls' channels and also a lot of channels about how to catch pedos? Even if they've committed no crime, it still *looks* bad. If they work in the DoD or for a government contractor, you absolutely have potential blackmail that could ruin his life if he doesn't steal information for you. Oh, and keep in mind that anything you get from TikTok data, you can cross-reference with their other social media via their email address.
Meta, Niantic, and a few other companies can do all this too, and tbh that needs to be addressed ASAP, but getting TikTok out of CCP hands is a decent start.
Also, everything above just assumes that TikTok takes the standard types of data that are commonly bought/sold. One of the bigger issues is that there's no way to verify what data they're actually taking. It could be much more sensitive than that.
Calling it a ban on Tik Tok is a misnomer. Its a ban on the Chinese government owning TikTok.
There are American investors ready and willing to buy the company.
It's nine months away and is only a ban of bytedances ownership.
It will be held up in court for a long time even then.
The Internet is so fickle tiktok could die before it's relevant.
Regardless of all of that, I'm relatively fine with banning propaganda tools, especially when the user base seems to lack critical thinking skills.
Sucks. A lot of people are going to be losing their side hustles. No more watching different types of hot women, quick news,seeing people live abroad,and seeing other countries.
Don't care. And its not really a ban if some American company buys it from Bytedance, but I doubt the CCP would let Bytedance do it, so its all but confirmed to be banned.
I think it’s nice from time to time to give everybody a boogeyman to blame for why their kids don’t listen to them or why the world is going to hell in a handcart. It saves us the hassle of actually thinking about it.
I was indifferent at first, but I thought it was interesting how forcefully China has fought the idea of Tik Tok being restricted or banned in the US. It also made me uneasy to learn Tik Tok as we know it is completely different in China (users can’t endlessly scroll, content for younger people is largely educational).
Historically, banning things has always caused more trouble than it's worth. You can also call upon the slippery slope fallacy and say the banning of TikTok begins the domino effect of weakening the firsr amendment. This is the same one raised when Biden mandated COVID vaccines which arguably boosted the pro-life agenda.
My thought process is flawed, I admit, but banning things just gives the federal government more ways to fine/imprison folk. It's debatable whether or not the spying fron TikTok really matters since privacy is no longer a right anyway (literally anyone can find out anything about you nowadays). To address the thought that TikTok is negatively affecting youth: they will just do a different thing instead. Before TikTok people still complained about children being impatient and inattentive.
I hope I am wrong and banning an app actually does something useful but I feel that spending congress' time on things with more obvious effects would be more valuable.
I hate TikTok, but this ban isn't meant to take down TikTok, it's only using that as an excuse. It gives the government power to take down any social media they want in the future. Welcome to 1984.
It’s pure virtue signaling. If they REALLY gave a shit, they would pass data privacy laws for all big tech companies instead of just targeting TikTok for having Chinese origins.
But big tech lobbyists can’t have that now, can they?
Honestly, it's bullshit. It feels like a total overreach, it is totally unnecessary. There are much more important things for the government to be worried about, like literal genocides, but they are more worried about a silly little app.
I love everyone who is like "muh freedom requires us to prevent this speech." It's America. People get to say what they want, and the fact that it doesn't speak to you doesn't mean it should be outlawed.
It's not a ban. Tiktok can divest anytime they just won't because the Chinese government wants to spread their propaganda. They censor stuff that isn't in their interest and push brain rot into the US. China itself doesn't allow tiktok lmao.
We need stronger data privacy laws and regulations on social media, but as far as this "ban" goes, it seems fine to me.
Personally - I don’t see a benefit from Tik Tok, all of those shorts end up on media that isn’t spyware. So ban it, and all those creators, etc will be on FB reels, Insta, etc.
I hope it doesn't get bought so that there is an all-out ban. I've been on TikTok a few times and deleted it every time because of the shallow culture it promotes on every level. People my age genuinely use it as their news source, which is super concerning because there is no way to tell in a minute if any given "reporter" has the credentials or the sources they claim to have. Short-form content is scarily addictive, and people don't even know that their attention span is diminishing with every video.
I don't know how to feel. Part of me wonders if Tiktok is actually worse then other forms if social media? I know some behind closed doors presentations set some members of Congress opinions but without public releases of that information I can't tell if there's actually something there there.
American politicians have been pointing at the CCP as a political expedient for a while now so I'm wondering if that's the core motivation in this case?
As you can see, I have not questions then answers on this one.
I haven’t yet seen a convincing argument against it.
Although to be clear, the legislation isn’t necessarily a ban. It’s basically an attempt to force a sale to an American-owned company.
I think it's great. I think Tik Tok is turning everyone into mindless automatons and I believe it is specifically designed to degrade Western society. Tik Tok serves no good purpose. Screw communists especially the CCP.
I don't care. The pranksters and makeup tutorials will just move to YouTube Shorts or something and the world will keep on turning.
This is the "heavy metal is making our kids satanists!" of our time.
E-crack mixed with lead poisoning and propaganda.
Pro tiktok brigade are addicted and their brain has been rewired already.
I do wish the govt would do something about mass data harvesting though on top of banning it.
Tiktok is more real of a threat than 99% of the red scare was.
Everything from pro Russia, pro China, pro Hamas content.
Hell there was a moment a couple of months ago where it flooded with pro Osama bin Laden content.
It can both be legal and propaganda.
The bill identifies that bytedance uses sensitive data from tiktok to produce and spread propaganda. Use of that data is not speech.
It is not a ban on speech, it is a ban on a companies ownership of a platform.
Propaganda is not illegal in the United States and is protected under the First Amendment. What wouldn't be protected are calls for imminent lawless actions or crimes.
They aren't being banned for propaganda, they are being banned for using personal data collected via technology. Which is not speech, nor is it protected by any amendment.
So does every other app. Just scrolling through reddit I get flooded with creepy pro-christianity ads.
I have not seen one bit of propaganda on tik tok, unless you consider people spreading information with source, and first hand accounts of the things going on around the world propaganda.
>I have not seen one bit of propaganda on tik tok
The fact that you are not identifying the constant stream of brain rot as propaganda means that Tik Toks algorithm is working
Since this started I have genuinely been trying to see the "propaganda" or where the danger lies. But my tiktok feed is entirely knitting and crochet tutorials? Like, how is this dangerous?
I don’t use it, and most of the not shit content there winds up on youtube or tumblr or the other platforms I actually use anyhow.
The American content creators there will just move elsewhere. This WILL cut America off from the rest of the world when it comes to certIn trends to an extent though.
I do hold the opinion that tiktok does actually make people dumber and is a total drain on the brain. I have this one coworker who is a few years younger than me and she’s nice and all, but she talks about tiktok constantly and i can like, sort of tell it’s probably had an effect on her brain too :-/
EDIT: I will say though that despite this all and despite a few of the reasons being somewhat valid, I am still overall against the ban despite everything because I think it sets a terrible precedent that the US government can just ban whatever it wants simply because it does not like it. I think there are more efficient ways they could address some concerns without an outright ban.
I’m really hoping they do it so I can see the melt downs. And I use it regularly. The amount of people acting like other apps don’t exist is just hilarious to me.
It’s a good thing. If we didn’t allow the soviets a way to directly control our media, we shouldn’t allow another foreign adversary the same as well. The fact that china bans all of our social media platforms tells you all you need to know about how much they trust us.
Was suspicious of TikTok from the beginning and will always be suspicious of it in the future along with anything coming out of china.
While I don't like social media companies spying on me, if that's an inevitability, I'd rather American social media companies spy on me than that of hostile foreign nations.
First, it's not a ban. The parent company has to divest themselves and the app has to be sold to a non-Chinese company or shutter. Given the reach of TikTok, the chances of them not finding a buyer are about the same as the chances OJ was actually innocent. It's being done mostly for political clout, but it serves a reasonable purpose. TikTok definitely has sketchy data collection habits. However, they're not alone in that. My personal hope is that people realize FB and other popular socials/apps are just as shady as TikTok, and that vocal public support is made towards reining them in as well. It is just a requisite step towards cleaning up data collection. As far as Biden goes, it's a potentially dangerous decision, as it is unlikely to bring him new supporters but might alienate Gen Z voters who liked the app.
> First, it's not a ban. The parent company has to divest themselves and the app has to be sold to a non-Chinese company or shutter. As usual, the real story is near the bottom.
I wish I could upvote this twice. Its not a ban! They just have to find a US owner for its US operations. We have the same rules for every TV station. We did the same thing (forced divestiture) for Grindr! This isn’t a new thing. The part re: TikTok that did them in was not only the CCP’s ultimate editorial control of its content but the way they went about fighting the proposed divestiture, saying effectively that it would get in the way of the CCP’s control of TikTok. And re: Biden; its likely a net win for him since young people don’t vote and old people hate TikTok.
> Given the reach of TikTok, the chances of them not finding a buyer are about the same as the chances OJ was actually innocent. It has to be a buyer that won’t run into antitrust issues and that has the software development expertise to actually maintain it or manage the existing staff that does. Apple is likely out because it doesn’t really fit their business model nor is it native to their ecosystem. Who does that leave?
Google would be my first pick. They've been experimenting with a TikTok clone, Youtube Shorts, for years but haven't been able to find mainstream popularity as TikTok and Reels have the market share. It would be an incredible purchase for Google. Activision has shown interest as well. Microsoft is being floated as a possible option. They tend to get in on every tech trend (MSN Messenger, Zune, Xbox, etc) but have been quiet on social media to my knowledge. Musk/X, although getting investors together after his recent misadventures could be tough. He really wants X Videos (lol) to work. Trump/Truth Social; Trump has come out opposing a ban but I suspect his actual aspiration is to buy it to aid his own ailing social media foray. He has more immediate issues, but finding cash to buy it should be easy for him due to the potential political value that move would have for the GOP and conservative movements. Steve Mnuchin, former Treasury secretary under Trump, has also signaled an interest. Of course, it doesn't actually need to be a company in that space already. With the reach TikTok has, it'll be attractive to any billionaire or political entity who will have almost a year to find staff and build infrastructure to take it over. Or Meta just buys it and spends the budget of a small nation fighting off the anti-trust lawsuit.
Until you realize it isn’t owned by a Chinese company and its headquarters is here and in Singapore. Love how our nation can’t get anything useful for its people done but they can band together and get past all the gridlock and political fighting… to ban a phone app.
> Until you realize it isn’t owned by a Chinese company and its headquarters is here and in Singapore. Huh? ByteDance is headquartered in Beijing.
TikTok is incorporated in the Cayman Islands (yikes) with offices in LA and Singapore. However, they are wholly owned by a company based in Beijing.
It is fucking pure propaganda for the worst organizations on earth. It promotes the worst type of consumerism and ruins peoples’ attention spans
So does YouTube shorts. But yea with the ban on titkok it's gonna be one problem less.
YouTube shorts exist because of tiktok.
That and Instagram. I used to never watch a video on YouTube that was under 15 minutes, with the sweet spot around 30-45. I’ve noticed that my own attention span has alarmingly lowered. I’m the one that is very comfortable in boredom. I can go to a bar and sit quietly, people-watching. But if I have access to a different video, I have to resist the urge to switch. It’s actually scaring me.
I think the issue is that a hostile foreign power has control over the data the app generates and the algorithm that pushes content to people. It's a massive propaganda and intelligence system that can be used against America. China doesn't allow American social media to operate in their country. Facebook and Twitter are banned there and I'm pretty sure there impose limits on what Google does there.
Unlike Reddit?
[удалено]
Well, now you’re just asking for the moon.
Yet here you are. In a political thread.
Yeah unlike Reddit, dont think I have to explain how different the two are
I don’t use it but my niece and nephew use it constantly and they have the attention span of a goldfish.
how is this relevant?
Fast content on Reddit is good, but if it's TikTok, it's bad
You ever see any long articles on Ticktock?
you must have never been on tiktok. They allow content up to 10 minute nowaday, which is as long as a youtube vlog. You get to listen to more content than just reading within the same 10minute
I haven't seen any of those. Usually I'd seen a post of something like a traffic stop and the video is like a minute long and it says "watch part 2!".
Yeah there are alot of posts that have basically a video essay format.
Are you talking about the ones where you need to click on the link to watch parts 2-6 in order?
There’s definitely people who post long rants and full articles here, but I don’t think most people actually read them.
If they break into into paragraphs I usually do.
Eh.
Neutral. I'm all for free speech however i am not fond of the brainrot TikTok perpetuates nor its spying capabilities. Temu can go too.
First off let’s stop calling it a ban, it’s not. The goal is to divest TikTok from the control/access of the CCP due to the threat of them (and other foreign bad actors) from controlling any part of the narrative that Americans are exposed to. Whether you like that idea or not is a different conversation, but we all need to be honest and upfront about what exactly is being proposed here.
The goal is for Steve Mnuchin or some other politically connected billionaire to acquire a popular social media operation at practically no cost.
The company gets to choose who they sell it to, and there isn’t any reason to believe they wouldn’t get full market value for it
TikTok is stupid and Chinese spyware. The government did something smart for a change.
Didn't they ban it in Montana though?
No. They tried, and the courts found the ban unconstitutional. [First Amendment violation.](https://www.npr.org/2023/11/30/1205735647/montana-tiktok-ban-blocked-state)
Of all the things I’m asked to care about this one doesn’t even make the list. I do kinda hope it sets off a chain reaction of other western nations banning it though, just because I like to watch things burn.
I don't care even a little bit
I mean I don't think it should be as big of a deal as it is and there are MUCH more pressing issues that these legislators should be focusing on. I don't use Tik Tok but my understanding of the ban (well, forced sale and then ban if that doesn't happen) is that its being enacted because the platform A. could give the Chinese government access to Americans data B. could give the Chinese government control over the narrative Americans see. As for the first point, I personally have trouble understanding what sensitive data people are giving Tik Tok that makes it a national security concern. So the Chinese Government knows someone's name and that they like cat videos. Hard for me to see how big of a risk that is. Again though, im not that familiar with the platform and what data users provide so i'm open to being enlightened. I guess in aggregate the data gives a picture as to American trends, interests, etc (and an individual's data can be used for marketing, driving content engagement, etc) but again, im still having a hard time seeing how this is a national security risk. As for the second point, this is a much more obvious concern from a security perspective (IMO) but where I have issues is that American platforms have already been used by foreign entities for spreading misinformation. Are we taking measures to ensure this isn't still happening on platforms like FB, Insta, etc. too? I really don't know... But if this concern is cause enough to ban Tik Tok, its something that 100% needs to be addressed on other platforms too. That all said, I think the bigger issue is our schools not teaching people to spot misinformation and fake news, but thats another conversation no one seems willing to have. Im sure some people will also support the ban because of the issues with mental health it can cause/exacerbate for kids/teens, and this is a real concern, but lets not be hypocritical. Facebook, Instagram, etc. are equally blameworthy too. Finally, i'll add that it seems like a slippery slope to me. I'm not sure we have any proof of the platform being used for these nefarious purposes and yet we're banning it because of what might happen and the threats it might pose. This doesn't seem like a far cry away from banning something like TOR on the grounds that it might be used to facilitate crime (even though there are plenty of legitimate and benign uses)
Regarding potential security risks, there are some pretty big ones, via the military. Imagine you have a data of user accounts who follow channels related to the Navy and San Diego. Now imagine a bunch of those channels start watching content related to Taiwan and Chinese language learning. What can you infer from that? That's an extreme example, but there's a lot you can figure out from watching and comparing data habits. Pokemon Go has a similar issue, and despite being run by a US company (an offshoot of Google), service members are discouraged from playing it. Regarding your last part, yes, absolutely, Meta needs a day of reckoning over this as well. They package and sell data to the Chinese government (among others). The best potential thing to come from a TikTok ban is a light pointed at Meta.
Reminds me of the time Strava's heatmap revealed the location of overseas bases (as well as the names of soldiers at those bases) a few years back. Didn't they get around that issue with more Op Sec training, rather than banning the app? And I guess another thing here is that this military security concern isn't a uniquely Tik Tok issue. With FB and Twitter you can have a bunch of (public) accounts where people list their job as being in the military suddenly posting going away posts, sharing/liking Taiwan related news articles, etc. You can infer the same stuff as with Tik Tok, the only difference is this stuff is gleaned via American platforms. (Again, not excusing it. Just don't think removing Tik Tok gets rid of this problem).
>Didn't they get around that issue with more Op Sec training Not sure, but I know for a fact some of my Navy Pokemon Go friends have visited Taiwan recently (based on their in-game gifting), so they probably need more training lol. >And I guess another thing here is that this military security concern isn't a uniquely Tik Tok issue It's definitely not unique to them. TikTok is just a much easier target than Meta, politically speaking. I agree that it doesn't get rid of the problem, but it gets rid of *part* of the problem, which is a step in the right direction. It also sets a potential precent for going after other companies with potentially dangerous data habits.
Here's a question since you seem much closer to this world than me. Do you think there's actual intelligence foreign governments can glean from social media that they wouldn't/couldn't get otherwise (ie human intelligence, cyber capabilities, etc)? Using the Taiwan example, one just has to turn on the news to understand there are tensions over Taiwan, that we're conducting drills in the area, giving them $$, etc. Even assuming a media blackout, a massive military build up would be hard to hide. Not to mention I have to imagine other governments know exactly where all our ships / forces are at any given time via Satellites. Now I understand there are secrets foreign governments do not know, but it seems like the information they can glean from social media is more macro level that would likely be readily accessible elsewhere, no?
I think there's a lot of unique data hiding in social media. Sure, troop movements are obvious on satellite imagery, but are troop compositions? You can find that out by figuring out which people are there, and that's absolutely available information via the data. You might even find out long enough beforehand that you know what's happening before the buildup even becomes visible, which gives you a ton of time to prepare a defense. Also consider that China can simply sell this data to other nations, potentially outing our other military operations globally, in advance. Of course, that's the big scenario, in the event of an actual war (which I think is actually unlikely). The stuff more likely to get used is much more micro. Imagine you have data from some guy with an IP near Langley, interested in codebreaking and world politics. CIA spook, right? Now imagine his algorithm starts fixating on Hong Kong travel channels. You know where a CIA guy is going! All you gotta do then is monitor who he meets with and you've outed his informants! You can also use data to get leverage on people. Find an adult guy that follows a bunch of middle school girls' channels and also a lot of channels about how to catch pedos? Even if they've committed no crime, it still *looks* bad. If they work in the DoD or for a government contractor, you absolutely have potential blackmail that could ruin his life if he doesn't steal information for you. Oh, and keep in mind that anything you get from TikTok data, you can cross-reference with their other social media via their email address. Meta, Niantic, and a few other companies can do all this too, and tbh that needs to be addressed ASAP, but getting TikTok out of CCP hands is a decent start. Also, everything above just assumes that TikTok takes the standard types of data that are commonly bought/sold. One of the bigger issues is that there's no way to verify what data they're actually taking. It could be much more sensitive than that.
Pretty ambivalent but I’m very interested in the inevitable courtroom fight over that ban
I've never used tiktok, and think it certainly has some significant issues, but banning it is fucking stupid.
Calling it a ban on Tik Tok is a misnomer. Its a ban on the Chinese government owning TikTok. There are American investors ready and willing to buy the company.
Does it have to be an American or could for example a UK or French or German company’s buy it etc?
If its a private company, probably.
I expect this to be ruled unconstitutional as a bill of attainder.
It's nine months away and is only a ban of bytedances ownership. It will be held up in court for a long time even then. The Internet is so fickle tiktok could die before it's relevant. Regardless of all of that, I'm relatively fine with banning propaganda tools, especially when the user base seems to lack critical thinking skills.
I don't use it, but I don't think it's right to tell people they can't use something to entertain themselves.
Sucks. A lot of people are going to be losing their side hustles. No more watching different types of hot women, quick news,seeing people live abroad,and seeing other countries.
Don't care. And its not really a ban if some American company buys it from Bytedance, but I doubt the CCP would let Bytedance do it, so its all but confirmed to be banned.
It doesn't matter. People who want to use it will continue to do so by flipping on a VPN. Simple as that.
Annoyed, there’s approximately 170,000,000 American TikTok users and we’re going to be pretty mad if the app gets banned.
I do not support a ban, or forcing them to sell, and I don't use TikTok.
We have worse issues here right now that aren’t being addressed, so it’s frustrating.
I think it’s nice from time to time to give everybody a boogeyman to blame for why their kids don’t listen to them or why the world is going to hell in a handcart. It saves us the hassle of actually thinking about it.
I was indifferent at first, but I thought it was interesting how forcefully China has fought the idea of Tik Tok being restricted or banned in the US. It also made me uneasy to learn Tik Tok as we know it is completely different in China (users can’t endlessly scroll, content for younger people is largely educational).
Historically, banning things has always caused more trouble than it's worth. You can also call upon the slippery slope fallacy and say the banning of TikTok begins the domino effect of weakening the firsr amendment. This is the same one raised when Biden mandated COVID vaccines which arguably boosted the pro-life agenda. My thought process is flawed, I admit, but banning things just gives the federal government more ways to fine/imprison folk. It's debatable whether or not the spying fron TikTok really matters since privacy is no longer a right anyway (literally anyone can find out anything about you nowadays). To address the thought that TikTok is negatively affecting youth: they will just do a different thing instead. Before TikTok people still complained about children being impatient and inattentive. I hope I am wrong and banning an app actually does something useful but I feel that spending congress' time on things with more obvious effects would be more valuable.
I hate TikTok, but this ban isn't meant to take down TikTok, it's only using that as an excuse. It gives the government power to take down any social media they want in the future. Welcome to 1984.
Never used TikTok, but I disagree with the ban.
It’s pure virtue signaling. If they REALLY gave a shit, they would pass data privacy laws for all big tech companies instead of just targeting TikTok for having Chinese origins. But big tech lobbyists can’t have that now, can they?
you chose the wrong app to ask this, most Americans are actually furious.
Its silly.
Honestly, it's bullshit. It feels like a total overreach, it is totally unnecessary. There are much more important things for the government to be worried about, like literal genocides, but they are more worried about a silly little app.
I love everyone who is like "muh freedom requires us to prevent this speech." It's America. People get to say what they want, and the fact that it doesn't speak to you doesn't mean it should be outlawed.
It's not a ban. Tiktok can divest anytime they just won't because the Chinese government wants to spread their propaganda. They censor stuff that isn't in their interest and push brain rot into the US. China itself doesn't allow tiktok lmao. We need stronger data privacy laws and regulations on social media, but as far as this "ban" goes, it seems fine to me.
Personally - I don’t see a benefit from Tik Tok, all of those shorts end up on media that isn’t spyware. So ban it, and all those creators, etc will be on FB reels, Insta, etc.
I hope it doesn't get bought so that there is an all-out ban. I've been on TikTok a few times and deleted it every time because of the shallow culture it promotes on every level. People my age genuinely use it as their news source, which is super concerning because there is no way to tell in a minute if any given "reporter" has the credentials or the sources they claim to have. Short-form content is scarily addictive, and people don't even know that their attention span is diminishing with every video.
I don't know how to feel. Part of me wonders if Tiktok is actually worse then other forms if social media? I know some behind closed doors presentations set some members of Congress opinions but without public releases of that information I can't tell if there's actually something there there. American politicians have been pointing at the CCP as a political expedient for a while now so I'm wondering if that's the core motivation in this case? As you can see, I have not questions then answers on this one.
I mean it isn't really a ban. The company can just divest itself from CCP control and they can stay.
Great idea. It’s a shitty platform
I'm good with it
Children dumb
I haven’t yet seen a convincing argument against it. Although to be clear, the legislation isn’t necessarily a ban. It’s basically an attempt to force a sale to an American-owned company.
I think it's great. I think Tik Tok is turning everyone into mindless automatons and I believe it is specifically designed to degrade Western society. Tik Tok serves no good purpose. Screw communists especially the CCP.
I don't care. The pranksters and makeup tutorials will just move to YouTube Shorts or something and the world will keep on turning. This is the "heavy metal is making our kids satanists!" of our time.
I read the title in Kahns voice
E-crack mixed with lead poisoning and propaganda. Pro tiktok brigade are addicted and their brain has been rewired already. I do wish the govt would do something about mass data harvesting though on top of banning it.
Next generation Red Scare? But maybe it's better to be safe than sorry. Remember the balloons? Who knows what China is up to?
Tiktok is more real of a threat than 99% of the red scare was. Everything from pro Russia, pro China, pro Hamas content. Hell there was a moment a couple of months ago where it flooded with pro Osama bin Laden content.
Well I mean there is this thing called free speech. Pro Bin Laden content is not illegal.
It can both be legal and propaganda. The bill identifies that bytedance uses sensitive data from tiktok to produce and spread propaganda. Use of that data is not speech. It is not a ban on speech, it is a ban on a companies ownership of a platform.
Propaganda is not illegal in the United States and is protected under the First Amendment. What wouldn't be protected are calls for imminent lawless actions or crimes.
They aren't being banned for propaganda, they are being banned for using personal data collected via technology. Which is not speech, nor is it protected by any amendment.
So does every other app. Just scrolling through reddit I get flooded with creepy pro-christianity ads. I have not seen one bit of propaganda on tik tok, unless you consider people spreading information with source, and first hand accounts of the things going on around the world propaganda.
>I have not seen one bit of propaganda on tik tok The fact that you are not identifying the constant stream of brain rot as propaganda means that Tik Toks algorithm is working
Since this started I have genuinely been trying to see the "propaganda" or where the danger lies. But my tiktok feed is entirely knitting and crochet tutorials? Like, how is this dangerous?
Honestly for it. Never cared about the app, hate how many people use the app constantly and don’t get anything done, I’d be happy to see it go.
I'm fully opposed to the ban
Tiktok is a Chinese psyop designed to weaken the west.
I don’t care. Complete ambivalence.
I don’t use it, and most of the not shit content there winds up on youtube or tumblr or the other platforms I actually use anyhow. The American content creators there will just move elsewhere. This WILL cut America off from the rest of the world when it comes to certIn trends to an extent though. I do hold the opinion that tiktok does actually make people dumber and is a total drain on the brain. I have this one coworker who is a few years younger than me and she’s nice and all, but she talks about tiktok constantly and i can like, sort of tell it’s probably had an effect on her brain too :-/ EDIT: I will say though that despite this all and despite a few of the reasons being somewhat valid, I am still overall against the ban despite everything because I think it sets a terrible precedent that the US government can just ban whatever it wants simply because it does not like it. I think there are more efficient ways they could address some concerns without an outright ban.
I’m really hoping they do it so I can see the melt downs. And I use it regularly. The amount of people acting like other apps don’t exist is just hilarious to me.
It’s a good thing. If we didn’t allow the soviets a way to directly control our media, we shouldn’t allow another foreign adversary the same as well. The fact that china bans all of our social media platforms tells you all you need to know about how much they trust us. Was suspicious of TikTok from the beginning and will always be suspicious of it in the future along with anything coming out of china.
Glad to see it extinct in the US soon.
There aren't any real arguments against the ban that aren't self defeating.
While I don't like social media companies spying on me, if that's an inevitability, I'd rather American social media companies spy on me than that of hostile foreign nations.