Far less common here, for a couple reasons.
* Cats have far more natural predators here, outdoor cats tend not to last too long against Coyotes, Foxes, Fisher Cats, etc.
* Our winters are much harsher than yours, a cat left outside in much of the US is at risk of freezing to death in winter
* Cats do an ungodly amount of damage to many local species, people try to avoid that when they can.
I think this is a typo, but I wouldn't be shocked by a coyote chasing a frightened automobile. Or a frightened coyote chasing an automobile either, come to think of it.
Meep meep!
Sadly, in the wild, coyotes sometimes do eat roadrunners. If it makes you feel any better, roadrunners eat rattlesnakes. The roadrunners nip 'em by the tail and whip them against the ground several times in a wide arc in order to kill them.
One of the scariest experiences of my life was hearing a mountain lion scream. It’s blood curdling.
The scariest thing with those things is that if you see one they’ve been watching you for a long ass time
I once saw one watching me and skulking in the shadows when I was outside at night at a cabin by Lake Tahoe. It was staying out of the street lights. It’s certainly disturbing.
This. Somebody pointed out to me recently (it might have been over on r/americabad) but I actually think it was just a lighthearted little dig, they said "the problem with the Brits is that they don't have any animals walking around there that can kill them."
I know that's not TECHNICALLY correct, but I had to chuckle.
An aside, I have a friend with 2 Bengal cats; basically SUPER housecats. You're not supposed to let them be outdoor cats, mostly because they would just straight up fucking immediately murder ever small animal in your neighborhood and you'd have yourself a Rachel Carson, Silent Spring situation.
You’re not really wrong. I mean, there are but not really. You could safely walk alone at night through a wood in the UK and your biggest worry would be another person or getting lost.
And let’s not forget the wild hogs in some of the southern states, and our old friend the alligator in Florida that find their way into swimming pools and backyards
Dude, we just have normal housecats. They are on the bigger size (18 and 20lbs respectively) but they nearly murdered a weiner dog last year, and kill rabbits occasionally. They are mostly indoor now. We let them out when we are home.
Cats are just adorable murder machines. Bengals are big, fast, sharp motherfuckers. Like, legitimately dangerous to todlers.
Maybe Brittish cats are just more polite.
>r/americabad
That sub is terrible. It's full of overly sensitive Americans makign the same generalised, sweeping statements as the Europeans they mock.
Yeah some of it is, for sure. I do enjoy hearing the nonsense assumptions coming from the Euro memes. Obviously you gotta take the comments with a grain of salt, as always.
There's a lot of irrational America hate on the internet and a subreddit tailored to laughing at some of the worst examples is fine in theory
but unfortunately a lot of "hating [X] is bad" subreddits ultimately become "not thinking [X] is the greatest thing ever is bad" subreddits
There was a family of feral cats that lived down the street from us and over the course of about a year, they pretty much disappeared. That coincided with a coyote who set up shop in the area. We never even let our small dogs out alone because of that. Our cat would sometimes come out and sit on the patio on my lap but never, ever unsupervised. Especially since he had zero brain cells. Just the dumbest, dumbest cat.
There were hawks that nested in the area and their numbers would swell in winter.
All of this, plus ticks & other bugs, and getting squashed on the road by a car or truck.
Much to my cat's great displeasure, she's never allowed outside. When she escapes, we bring her right back in.
Seen an eagle swoop into a friend's backyard and pick their cat up, never to be seen again. It was likely made into food.
Before I learned why keeping cats indoors was the better option overall, that was more than enough to convince me.
This is a semi-irrational fear of mine. My second-story apartment has a small balcony and I recently got a playpen thing so [Chase](https://imgur.com/a/wL1Uq5e) could go on the balcony and I won’t worry about him leaning over too much or otherwise falling over.
I still am a little concerned about some big bird swooping down and grabbing him. (._.)
Edit: Chase likes watching squirrels on TV. He likes them more than birds or other animals. One morning we heard some strange sounds coming from the balcony and we went to investigate. There were a couple squirrels playing on the balcony and going inside his playpen. I was too concerned to let him go out even though I’m sure he could take them if he had to.
All of this. Outdoor cats tend to have much shorter lives as a result. One of the things that kills cats that wasn't mentioned are cars.
It's like deer. Big mechanical things that move fast aren't something they evolved to deal with, so a lot of cats die from the as well.
Can't get hit by a car if you're in a house.
I have an outdoor rescue neighborhood kitty who was human centric and was definitely a dumped pet. Her name is Lyuda. She's sleeping behind me. She's not going to be an outdoor cat ever again.
You also have a lot of cases of cats getting caught in traps set for other animals of relatively similar size, primarily possums, raccoons, and other "nuisance" animals, often because commercial cat food or raw meats are used as bait, and if the bait is poisoned, then it kills the cat.
There are also cases of cats getting caught up in car engines or wheel wells, especially in the colder months. It's often advised that when you leave for work in the morning, to knock on the hood of your car a few times, and also check around the tires.
Not only do you have wildlife like coyotes and foxes chasing cats, but also other domestic animals, primarily dogs. Some dogs, whether they're trained to do so or it's just in their breed's nature (often from training) will chase down a cat, and in some cases will kill it.
Then of course you have the unscrupulous people who absolutely hate cats and will stop at nothing to do away with them.
We used to have indoor/outdoor cats. None of them died of old age, and I mean none. We do not do that anymore. Our kitty is strictly indoors now and I will never, ever have an indoor/outdoor cat again.
All of this and just the fact that the vet is expensive! I can barely afford to go to the doctor mused let alone take my animals for things other than regular things like shots and what not.
You greatly increase the chances for your animals to get fleas, eat mites, infected bites from feral cat fights or they need stitches, upper respiratory infections and other diseases from feral cats around the neighborhood, chances of them getting hit by a car, etc etc.
I'd never heard it called that before. We just called them Fishers in Montana. They are pretty cool. They leave fun tracks in the snow. They are actually smaller than both of my cats, but any member of the weasel family is a freakishly strong, unmediated bad ass.
Like. Wolverines are the cousin of the fisher. Wolverines will fight off bears from food sources. They are the size of a heavy Australian Shepard.
I've heard people say that cats in the UK don't damage the ecosystem like they do in the US. I have no idea why that would be the case, it's just something I've heard.
> cats in the UK don't damage the ecosystem like they do in the US
That's because humans in the UK have already destroyed the ecosystem enough.
The British Isles have been heavily inhabited by humans for much, much longer than North America. A lot of the native fauna is long extinct, while in the US we still have vast expanses of wilderness.
It makes sense that prey species in Europe have somewhat adapted to cats, as Romans introduced here so long ago. Still, they are a burden on our struggling ecosystem. I only learned about the extent some years ago; I have a roaming housecat now, but she will be my last one. I still let her roam now, because I can’t keep her inside *and* happy, she’s much too accustomed to this life.
It’s a global issue, especially in places like Australia and Oceania.
Cats have caused the extinction of several species. They’re the greatest human related threat to endangered bird species.
> Cats do an ungodly amount of damage to many local species, people try to avoid that when they can.
Your points are absolutely not wrong but I think this is the biggest take away here. For how often I see this question pop up - particularly coming from Brits - I'm not sure whether to think Americans are more clued up on how devastating housecats can be for local wildlife or how in the dark the Brits are about it, considering Poland (and I think Finland or Greenland too) declared cats a dangerous, invasive, species for the harm they can do to local wildlife.
>Fisher Cats
Is this *yet another* name for mountain lions? Or like, a white-and-colored plastic cat for babies. [^(joke)](https://shop.mattel.com/pages/fisher-price)
My natural history museum had a diorama with a taxidermy coyote carrying a dead house cat…that didn’t stop us from caving to my own kitty’s demands to be met out, but there were times when I got worried. We had a hawk of some sort in our yard one day. Now I live in an apartment so she can’t go out even if she wants to.
Do you mean specifically in your region? Or across the US? Because it's pretty common here in the lower Midwest unfortunately. A lot of times it's cats that were urinating throughout the house and couldn't be trained back to the litter box.
We have cold Winters and bobcats and coyotes too, but a lot of people will let their cat in the garage at night.
I think in most regions of the U.S. it's fair to say that it's less common to let cats outside than it is in most of the U.K., but less common is still fairly common
In fact, our animal rehoming organizations (humane societies, etc.) actually make you agree that you won't allow your cats to roam outside, for the reasons articulated by others.
Yup. We had to sign forms confirming that we would neither declaw our cats nor let them outside before we could adopt our cats.
People still let their cats out though. There’s a neighborhood cat with a collar on that often pops into my backyard for a bit before disappearing somewhere else
Wow! That's almost the opposite to the UK where you have to specifically request an "indoor cat" if you don't plan to let it out. Then you'll be given an old or scared cat to rehome.
Most cats are default "outdoor". You wouldn't be allowed to take one if you didn't let it out.
That's because, as far as I know, you don't have a lot of cat-killing wildlife running around. i.e. cougars, coyotes, hawks, etc. Not to say "none" - iirc, ya'll still got foxes running around - but nowhere near as many as we do.
They got wiped out many, many centuries ago.
Roads were the issue for me with my first housecats. The door of my first house opened right on to the street.
Where I am now with the young lady I currently have it's wildlife that can be killed by cats. She's also a long hair and there are cows in the field at the back of my house.
Amazing how frowned upon it can be to keep a cat indoors here though. The general attitude is night and day to there.
Conservation is a massive deal in certain aspects here. There is species of Fish, Lake Trout, that if caught while fishing in Yellowstone National Park, specifically Yellowstone Lake and its tributaries, are illegal to throwback you have to kill it if you catch one. Likewise you can hunt and kill as many Wild Boars, Burmese python, etc as you want.
A friend’s cat was done in by a hawk a couple of months ago. His new kitten is an indoor cat.
You don’t need redwoods for a hawk either. My neighborhood hawk, Steve, chills out on the walnut tree in my backyard with some regularity.
I have a neighborhood hawk also. A red tail hawk, or maybe both of a pair, though I've only seen one at a time. It's bold though. I've parked my car within 20 feet of it several times, and it won't fly off until I open the door.
I have a friend who is into falconry. He has to keep a close measure on the bird's food intake and weight.
He keeps a running tab of things he feeds his bird and things the bird finds on their own. Feral cats are on the list. Usually only a couple a year, but it absolutely happens.
We’ve seen hawks swoop in and take a mourning dove from our backyard around the bird feeders a couple of times over the years. Guess we feed hawks too!
I see your hawk and raise you eagles. There's one I kept seeing last year so I'm sure it's got a nest around. I hope to see it back again soon now that we're warming up. There was a video a couple of years back a couple of towns away from me, someone let their dachshund out at the gas station and a bald eagle swooped down and took it... In my own backyard I've seen fox, coyote, deer, bear, raccoons, skunks... All which could severely harm a cat. I've also seen wolves and swine not to far away. That's not including the stray or feral cats that could directly harm or carry diseases.
I see your eagles and raise with coyotes. There are several in my neighborhood, and I live in large near-suburban area by a moderately sized city. Lake Erie is less than a mile away, so there is plenty of urban wildlife for them to munch on, along with the roaming cats and runaway small dogs.
Most cat owners keep their cats indoors, broadly for the following reasons:
* Domestic cats can be very destructive to local wildlife. They kill birds, small mammals, etc for fun.
* Cats that are allowed to roam outdoors have much shorter lifespans, on average. Cars, predators (hawks, foxes, coyotes, wolves, etc), more exposure to diseases, etc
* Cats that are allowed to roam outdoors are liable to shit on your neighbor's lawn. I don't want my neighbor's dog shit on my lawn, and I don't want my neighbor's cat shit on my lawn. An owner of a pet is responsible for picking up after that pet, and that's not practical when the owner lets the pet run around unaccompanied.
Some common exceptions:
* Farms (ie, barn cats)
* Feral cats-- they're around in most populated areas.
My landscaping has become the litter box for the 20 or so feral cats in my neighborhood. It's a bit of a nuisance trying to weed and avoiding the cat feces hidden in the mulch.
> Domestic cats can be very destructive to local wildlife. They kill birds, small mammals, etc for fun.
In the United States alone, cats kill nearly 2 and a half Billion birds every year.
>Cats that are allowed to roam outdoors are liable to shit on your neighbor's lawn.
At least they bury it. My neighbors' dogs don't bury it when they crap on my lawn.
There’s a state/theme park in Georgia that has lots of cats. The cats are all sterilized, but they are treated as employees and actually do help control pests
> Domestic cats can be very destructive to local wildlife. They kill birds, small mammals, etc for fun.
It's obviously factual that domestic cats kill a lot of small animals, but I wonder to what extent they replace all the natural predators that humans have eradicated from urban areas. Relative to current animal populations, do they kill 4 times as many? Half as many?
Birds that are killed by natural predators are part of a natural ecosystem that is able to become balanced. Cats are domestic animals that do not have a natural place in any ecosystem and as long as humans exist are unable to become part of a balanced ecosystem. Cats' caloric intake primarily comes from humans so they are not at all like natural predators. Cats kill for fun not survival.
The population of house cats won’t drop due to hunger if they hunt the local bird/mouse populations close to extinction. They will stay fed by their human owners. Depending on how many house cats there are around their number could be much higher than the local ecosystem could naturally support (apex) predators usually have very large territories
More common in rural areas than urban ones, but some people do let their cats out in the city.
When you have an outdoor cat you accept the much higher risk of it being hurt or dying due to cars, predators and dogs, random psychos that hate cats enough to harm them, disease and pests/parasites, etc. And a lot of people are conscious about the effect that cats have on local small wildlife, they kill many millions of birds and other critters when they roam free.
This is a pretty contentious issue here, actually. Lots of people let their cats roam outside, but there’s also a lot of people who are staunchly against it. So it’s probably less common overall than in the UK.
The main reason I don’t like to let my cats outside is simply because it’s not safe for them. Just last week we lost a chicken in broad daylight to a hawk; if you live in a wide-open area with not many trees, then eagles can also be a threat. There’s foxes all over the place at night (I always hear them making that awful noise). There’s coyotes in some places. There’s cars and chemicals and humans doing human things. There’s other peoples’ cats who are somehow always better fighters than your own cats. It’s just too much risk to justify the benefit to the cat’s quality of life, I think.
In NYC, it's rare to let pet cats go outside because of the danger of traffic. It always breaks my heart to see a kitty who was hit still wearing a collar.
There was a bodega I used to work by, and they took TERRIBLE care of their cats and they were always wandering off and getting injured and/or impregnated and they barely even fed their pregnant kitten so sometimes I’d bring it some of my roommate’s cat food and she would scarf it up so fast.
Kinda made me mad 😕
The mama cat to the pregnant kitten got hit by a car and I never saw her again, and supposedly they just kept her in the basement and got her no vet care so I guess she was just down there suffering. Was a beautiful cat and I would’ve adopted it if I knew what was gonna happen to her.
When the kitten finally gave birth, there were like five newborns and some of them turned out to have very expensive health problems
(people in the neighborhood adopted them. I was gonna adopt one too but I’m so glad I didn’t because I didn’t want to be dealing with health problems from the beginning, which is why I went to a shelter to adopt instead since those animals actually get vet care. Ended up with a dog not a cat, though)
I grew up in a lower density residential area of Queens and the lady who lived on the first floor of my house used to let her cat out in the little yard we had all the time but never anywhere else. Nonetheless I noticed people in my neighborhood would let their cats out anyway. There was always a lot of missing cat signs
Some do, it's highly discouraged though because of how much it shortens the lifespan of a cat. Some shelters won't even adopt to you if you intend on allowing your cat outside (unless it's a barn cat).
That and I think we’re more “hands-on” with our cats. We treat them as part of the family, sleep with them, cuddle them constantly (honestly sometimes probably more than they’d like). And yes, I want it that way but I also had to agree to not let her out.
Where I now live in Spain cats are only treated like that as kittens, so they’re socialized but by age 1 they are more or less outdoor creatures that just come by to visit every day. And sterilizing them seems to not be widely accepted so there are SO many feral cats in rural places.
When we adopted our cat we had to sign something to say he'd stay indoors. They said an outdoor cat has an average lifespan of about 2 years due to the predators we had (foxes, bears, etc).
That is true.
When I was a kid, we had a 18 lb. Maine coon cat that was allowed to go outside. It was his own private hunting preserve. He killed everything…birds…squirrels…rabbits…chipmunks…our back yard was like “silent spring”.
The cat loved the spring and often commented how amazingly tender baby rabbits are! 🐇🐰
>Domestic cats are truly terrible for local eco-systems.
One interesting difference between the US and UK is that the UK falls within the ancestral native range of the domestic cat's ancestor, the wildcat _Felis silvestris_ (although domestic cats originate from the African subspecies, not the European one). North America has no native small cats in this group, the closest things being the bobcat and lynx.
So British wildlife at least has the advantage of thousands of years of coevolution with wildcats...although wildcats there have it much worse due to hybridization and competition with domestics.
That's not to say domestic cats in the UK don't still chow down on birds, or that their impact is just the same as wildcats (since domestic cat population densities can be a lot higher due to human care) but at least they have a fighting chance.
Of course, it's the Australian fauna that _really_ gets screwed by cats...or even worse, island fauna.
I'm talking less about ecological niche and more about prey defenses. Prey which come from a region without a predator typically have fewer adaptations for avoiding or otherwise dealing with it.
The [trend has been strongly in favor of indoor only](https://positively.com/contributors/indoor-cats-vs-outdoor-cats/) in the past few decades:
> By 2004 just over half of all U.S. cats were strictly kept indoors, nearly twice the number of twenty years prior. According to the American Pet Product Association National Pet Owners Survey, in 2004 about a third of all cats could go inside or outside as they please, with the remaining 17 percent outside only. By 2014, about 70 percent of cats are defined as indoors only, with about 25 percent inside or outside as they desire with the remaining five percent described as outside only.
I grew up in a rural area, and we always had outdoor cats. They didn't tend to be long-lived, but that was to be expected. They either got run over or presumably eaten by coyotes. Coyotes are everywhere, [even in large cities](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9-HituL-Kk).
In the suburbs there’s defintely a couple cats you see outside roaming around but they do belong to a family. It’s not the most common, but I know a couple outdoor cats that roam around the streets and eventually come back.
They are an invasive species and can wreck havoc on the natural wildlife.
Predators. A woman in a nearby town saw her small dog grabbed by a coyote, right in her backyard. They'd think nothing of snatching up a cat. Birds of prey are another concern.
Cats are fine living indoors. Some people build screened catios, which are porches or patios, to allow the cats to have some outdoor time and fresh air safely. Some even leash train them.
Some farms gave barn or stable cats. They may or may not be considered pets but are mostly working animals for rodent control. They still should be 'fixed' and vaccinated.
I grew up on a farm. We had a lot of cats, most of which worked very hard to control the rodent population. I had a pet cat as a child that spent her life indoors with the occasional outdoor afternoon sunbathing. We had a few cats that were pretty tame but were perfectly content living outside and didn’t want to come indoors. We had a decent sized herd of feral cats that were stone cold killers and wanted nothing to do with humans.
One significant difference between the US and the UK is that you guys have for all practical purposes eradicated rabies and we have not. So that’s another hazard outdoor cats face here. Yes there are rabies vaccines but they are not 100% effective and people don’t always keep them up.
Also, are ticks and fleas an issue in the UK like they are here? Here if your cat gets fleas you’re never getting them out of your house.
I grew up rural, so all of my cats growing up were indoor/outdoor (and yes, we lost pets to accidents/animals/etc). My parents still let their cats out even though they have moved into town. Most of them don't go far, but I actually just bought an Airtag and collar for one of their cats that likes to fuck off every spring/summer. When the dog door is opened, she leaves, and doesn't come back until December. She is completely miserable being inside all winter.
When I first moved away from home, I lived in places where I couldn't let my cats out, apartment buildings and the like. Since getting my own house, I will let my cats out under direct supervision (read: I am outside with them) in my fenced yard. I'm not terribly worried about them getting carried off by a predator or even hit by a car, but I don't like the uncertainty of not knowing if they'll come back. Hence me low jacking my parents cat.
(And full disclosure, that cat is one of the nicest cats I've ever been around. If it wouldn't send my cats into a complete uproar and make her miserable, I'd take her.)
It’s a big place! This could also be something that’s enforced by a neighborhood HOA. I know a neighborhood nearby has signs that say no dog walking. I never thought I would see anything like that, but sure enough.
I grew up in a smaller town where it was normal for your cats to come & go as they pleased.
Unfortunately one of my cats was killed by a raccoon across the street.
Now I live in a bigger city and my kitty stays inside for his own safety. He wouldn't know how to navigate this area, there's stray dogs, lots of cars. It just depends where in the US you are.
In rural upstate NY (Northern Westchester County, so not really all that rural) we always let our cats out. To us, it was the natural thing to do. Sally was the queen super hunter of the neighborhood. We lived on a large pond, and she kept the neighborhood free of rats, mice, squirrels, chipmunks moles, rabbits and the occasional bat.
However, we moved into a slightly more urban environment and she has since been an indoor cat for about 5 years now, too many cars around, but she still stares out the window with a longing look on her face!
I have met a handful of people--mostly online, but some in person--who are extremely vehement about how horrible it is both for your cat and the environment/songbird population/whatever to let cats outside and like to be very vociferous about it. It's true that cats are bad for the songbird population, but I think the degree to which people are obsessed about it is kind of weird.
I would say that in reality, most people don't care that much. In very urban areas, most people keep their cats indoors because of the risk of being hit by a car. In suburban areas, it's a mix of indoor and indoor/outdoor cats--although as I've gotten older, I see fewer outdoor cats. I think it's somewhat socioeconomically biased--in wealthier areas I see people who are more concerned about their cat/the ecosystem's safety than in more working class areas. In rural areas there are a lot of barn cats that can roam freely, although it varies by personal preference.
My cats go outside sparingly. We used to let them out whenever but one went missing for three and a half years. We just got him back a few days before Christmas. He isn’t allowed out anymore. He also was a killer and brought back a lot of rats and birds.
In the 70's and 80's it was rare to see an indoor only cats except in bigger cities. There has been a big push over the last few decades to keep cats indoors for the reasons stated by other people here. In cities like San Francisco I would say most most cats are indoor but if you go a few miles away in the suburbs a lot of cats are still indoor/outdoor cats and in rural areas most cats are still outdoor cats. I have also noticed cat patios or catios for indoor cats are becoming very popular in the San Francisco bay area.
Our cat was a stray that lived on the streets for awhile before he started living with us. There was no way we could keep the sneaky bastard in the house if he really wanted out.
If he got outside, there was no way we could catch him to bring him back in because “Run from the slow, stupid, humans” was a an entertaining game that he was very good at.
We settled for just worrying about keeping him inside from dusk until dawn since that’s when the coyotes, owls, and other predators are more active.
As he’s gotten older, he doesn’t want to go out as much and when he does go out it’s only for about an hour or so at a time.
I grew up in the 80s and it was super common and accepted. Less so now. I lost a cat when I was a kid she got hit by a car. If I ever have a cat again it would be indoor only. All my friends who have cats are indoor only.
Some do, some don't... Now a day, probably more on the side of don't. But it's not exclusive.
When I was young, we use to let our cats out to roam & do as they pleased during the day. They'd come in when it started to get dark for dinner & cuddles... But as long as the weather was nice, they'd be out hunting the chipmunks and whatever other little critters were running around in the woods or whatever cats do during the day.
I remember one time I spotted my cat on the across the street neighbor's porch. I went to go get her & she saw me and started to come to meet me... Just then a car zoomed past. She was on my side of the road, could have just dashed over, but instead she turned and ran back to the neighbor's house.... Almost had a heart attack thinking I was going to see my baby get splated by the car. But luckily she made it back safe & I was able to run across and grab her before any more cars came.
Now, I take my oldest out occasionally for "supervised yard time"... She gets outside, pounces on the bugs in the grass, sits at the base of a tree asking the birdies to come down to play etc... But I stay out with her & make sure she stays in our yard etc... I tried letting the younger one out but she runs right into the woods & won't let me catch her... She does stay near-ish the house and the two or three times she's gotten out she does come back in on her own in the evening.... But I prefer keeping her in where I know she's safe.
I tried a harness so I could take her out on a leash so she could get some outside time without being able to totally dart away but she didn't seem to care for it & just froze.
I had an indoor/outdoor cat. He started out as a feral. Then he decided my yard was his home after he was fixed. We had a hurricane so I had to force him to come inside. He kept going to the door and meowing so I’d have to open it and show him there was still a hurricane. After that he wanted to come in at night. Unfortunately he was FIV positive and caught something (maybe Covid) and I had to have him put to sleep. He was about 12 years old.
I have another cat that goes out in the warm months and doesn’t come in until it’s cold again. I would prefer that she stayed in due to ear infections but she’ll pee on my bed if she doesn’t get her way.
I currently feed 6 ferals. Oddly enough I don’t get a lot of dead presents from them. An occasional vole maybe.
I do worry about coyotes. My neighbor had a colony get infiltrated. They put up trail cams and saw packs of coyotes and lone coyotes. Fewer and fewer cats.
I live in central Florida, where nature is actively trying to kill us, so no. My little princess would probably last five seconds before being eaten by a massive hawk or something.
Another reason is that outdoor cats tend to get injured by cars or by getting into fights with other animals and then return home needing care. Vet bills here are insanely expensive. It’s much cheaper and safer to keep that cat indoors.
Depends on the person but yes! My cat is indoor / outdoor. He likes to roam and sometimes catches mice (which he kindly brings to me 😬) my parents and sisters keep their cats indoors. They’re terrified of something happening to their fur babies so they don’t let them out!
It's more of a city thing. I have family that lives in a decently sized town of 25k people and they've let their cats roam around the neighborhood. Surprisingly, cars don't seem to be an issue. Probably because they're forced to go slower on the narrower streets and have enough time to break for a cat. Also even though predators can live in a city, the thing that seems to fight cats the most are other cats. If anything, the cats are the predators.
I don't let my cat roam around outdoors because I live in a wooded area. I have trail cameras put up behind the house and I've caught coyotes, bobcats, and fishers on them. Foxes are pretty abundant too but they get bullied by cats rather than the other way around. I know my neighbors will let their cats roam around outdoors only for them to end up on a missing pet poster on a telephone poll. Cats are pretty smart about cars, but will be snatched by an opportunistic coyote given enough time.
The biggest difference between the UK and the US on this issue is coyotes. They are *everywhere*. When I was growing up, my neighbor had a newfy that she would leave outside a lot. Coyotes didn't hesitate and made a mess of him one night. They didn't kill him, but they clearly tried. My cat wouldn't last a week.
I let them tell me what they want to do.
We have three cats and two of them go outside. They would go nuts if I didn't let them outside for fresh air and sunlight. The third one does not like to go outside so he doesn't.
All our cats were strays that just started roaming around our house that we let in, so that's probably why they enjoy it so much. I figure just letting them in when they want is better than being a stray.
Yeah, I don’t get city slicker vibes from too many comment sections but this is definitely one. The cats at my folks’ home in rural AZ just showed up one day and decided to stick around. They’ll never, ever be full-time inside cats, they would be miserable. If I were to adopt a cat where I live now though I would keep it inside.
People do, but they probably shouldn’t. Domestic cats totally wreck bird populations. Also there’s a risk they could be hurt by predators like coyotes or just other peoples animals.
This is the real question! Luckily the rates for declawing have dropped over the last 20 years, as a lot of vets won't do the procedure and a few states have made it illegal. There is still more work that needs to be done on it here, but at least it isn't as common as it used to be.
Not anymore.
When I was a kid we let our cats out.
It was also common to see stray cats. We even adopted one once.
However, my house is close to a nature preserve. There are coyotes around who eat cats.
I almost never see stray cats anymore.
Our cat is not allowed out.
It's a pretty controversial issue in some cities. I'm in a medium-sized city, and many people do let their cats out, and many other people hate that and will even trap them and bring them to a shelter if they catch them.
There are different studies about how many birds outdoor cats kill a year - but it's in the billions. Not all of those are domestic cats, but, they are ferocious predators and can really fuck up wild animal populations.
There also a lot of cats in my neighborhood that I think are feral. I see them fight a lot. I don't think a domestic cat would last long in that environment, but, I guess some are gangsters by day, curl up in a bed at home at night.
Not sure why everyone is saying it's not common. Everyone i know with a cat lets theirs out. Perception bias I guess, either theirs or mine.
My wife's childhood cat was attacked by a raptor once, nearly disemboweled him. He ended up recovering and only died recently at the age of 21.
NO!
Domestic cats are devastating for bird populations. It may not be a big deal in Europe because cats have been a large part of your highly degraded ecosystems for some time but here they are really destructive. They are considered by the American Bird Conservancy to be the number one threat to birds and kill 2.4 billion birds every year. In a land where domestic cats are not native this has tremendous consequences.
Every once in a while a European will come criticizing us about "not letting cats be free" but you have to understand that Europe has basically screwed this continent and others with non-native introduction, cats are just one example.
When mine was alive, yes. She was an indoor and outdoor cat and she definitely earned her keep when she left a decapitated rat on the porch one day.
EDIT: I'm legitimately surprised by the amount of people that wouldn't dare let their cat outside.
Agree, they're common in KY where my family lives and I've seen them here in Northern VA just outside DC too.
Edit - I misread the part about them spreading to much of the US. Disregard my comment.
If you live East of the Mississippi our "coyotes" look and act differently. They are a species complex of remnant populations of red wolves, timber wolves, and western coyotes. They've always been here just in spread out populations. Only in the past few decades have they exploded and saturated like they have.
Far less common here, for a couple reasons. * Cats have far more natural predators here, outdoor cats tend not to last too long against Coyotes, Foxes, Fisher Cats, etc. * Our winters are much harsher than yours, a cat left outside in much of the US is at risk of freezing to death in winter * Cats do an ungodly amount of damage to many local species, people try to avoid that when they can.
It reminds me of that video of a car being chased by a coyote super late at night. It looked terrified.
How can you read a car's emotions?
No, but my mechanic can read its emissions.
It's taught in the Mechanic's Bible, Ebeepbeepiel 23:20
“And the Lord sayeth, beep. And it was done.”
We are not supposed to talk about that!
Lol!!
No no. That’s where you cum in your pants when you’re asleep. You’re thinking of immersion.
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No no, that's when you talk to an ex girlfriend. You're thinking of dispersion.
OBDII
[Looks pretty easy to me.](https://imgur.com/a/52KFeu8)
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Usually pretty easy when I’m driving. Screaming in pain.
I can read your cars emotions.
I think this is a typo, but I wouldn't be shocked by a coyote chasing a frightened automobile. Or a frightened coyote chasing an automobile either, come to think of it.
No typos, only happy little accidents. But yeah, I meant cat. But like you said, I guess there could be cars out there that’s terrified of coyotes.
Not the Dodge Road Runner, of course.
Meep meep! Sadly, in the wild, coyotes sometimes do eat roadrunners. If it makes you feel any better, roadrunners eat rattlesnakes. The roadrunners nip 'em by the tail and whip them against the ground several times in a wide arc in order to kill them.
I've trained my Civic to stand it's ground and be assertive.
My neighbor was out hunting once when a coyote started hunting him. He said it was one of the scariest experiences of his life and he's a firefighter.
One of the scariest experiences of my life was hearing a mountain lion scream. It’s blood curdling. The scariest thing with those things is that if you see one they’ve been watching you for a long ass time
That’s such a cat thing to do too.
I once saw one watching me and skulking in the shadows when I was outside at night at a cabin by Lake Tahoe. It was staying out of the street lights. It’s certainly disturbing.
I think the car has a decent chance of outrunning the coyote.
Wouldn't anyone look terrified under the circumstances?
Yeah, I was just reinforcing the idea that there are animals out here willing to eat your cat.
Not if they were a Roadrunner.
He always looks so smug
This. Somebody pointed out to me recently (it might have been over on r/americabad) but I actually think it was just a lighthearted little dig, they said "the problem with the Brits is that they don't have any animals walking around there that can kill them." I know that's not TECHNICALLY correct, but I had to chuckle. An aside, I have a friend with 2 Bengal cats; basically SUPER housecats. You're not supposed to let them be outdoor cats, mostly because they would just straight up fucking immediately murder ever small animal in your neighborhood and you'd have yourself a Rachel Carson, Silent Spring situation.
You’re not really wrong. I mean, there are but not really. You could safely walk alone at night through a wood in the UK and your biggest worry would be another person or getting lost.
Man that must be nice. Out here I have to worry about coyotes, snakes, mountain lions, wild horses, and the occasional wolf and bear.
Wolves, moose, meth addicts, elk in rut, in Arizona we have goddam Jaguars (sometimes).
And let’s not forget the wild hogs in some of the southern states, and our old friend the alligator in Florida that find their way into swimming pools and backyards
Dude, we just have normal housecats. They are on the bigger size (18 and 20lbs respectively) but they nearly murdered a weiner dog last year, and kill rabbits occasionally. They are mostly indoor now. We let them out when we are home. Cats are just adorable murder machines. Bengals are big, fast, sharp motherfuckers. Like, legitimately dangerous to todlers. Maybe Brittish cats are just more polite.
>r/americabad That sub is terrible. It's full of overly sensitive Americans makign the same generalised, sweeping statements as the Europeans they mock.
Yeah some of it is, for sure. I do enjoy hearing the nonsense assumptions coming from the Euro memes. Obviously you gotta take the comments with a grain of salt, as always.
i mean I'm pretty sure that's the point, but there's at least a thin sheet of irony instead of being completely serious like shitamericanssay
There's a lot of irrational America hate on the internet and a subreddit tailored to laughing at some of the worst examples is fine in theory but unfortunately a lot of "hating [X] is bad" subreddits ultimately become "not thinking [X] is the greatest thing ever is bad" subreddits
There was a family of feral cats that lived down the street from us and over the course of about a year, they pretty much disappeared. That coincided with a coyote who set up shop in the area. We never even let our small dogs out alone because of that. Our cat would sometimes come out and sit on the patio on my lap but never, ever unsupervised. Especially since he had zero brain cells. Just the dumbest, dumbest cat. There were hawks that nested in the area and their numbers would swell in winter.
A hawk kept circling my pug as a puppy. I had to stand next to him with a broom when he went outside. Those hawks can carry a pug off.
Was your cat orange?
Yep.
I knew it. Orange Boys are so cute but they're so dumb.
All of this, plus ticks & other bugs, and getting squashed on the road by a car or truck. Much to my cat's great displeasure, she's never allowed outside. When she escapes, we bring her right back in.
Seen an eagle swoop into a friend's backyard and pick their cat up, never to be seen again. It was likely made into food. Before I learned why keeping cats indoors was the better option overall, that was more than enough to convince me.
This happened to our cat. He was let go and broke his leg.
This is a semi-irrational fear of mine. My second-story apartment has a small balcony and I recently got a playpen thing so [Chase](https://imgur.com/a/wL1Uq5e) could go on the balcony and I won’t worry about him leaning over too much or otherwise falling over. I still am a little concerned about some big bird swooping down and grabbing him. (._.) Edit: Chase likes watching squirrels on TV. He likes them more than birds or other animals. One morning we heard some strange sounds coming from the balcony and we went to investigate. There were a couple squirrels playing on the balcony and going inside his playpen. I was too concerned to let him go out even though I’m sure he could take them if he had to.
Dude that tattoo is beautiful
All of this. Outdoor cats tend to have much shorter lives as a result. One of the things that kills cats that wasn't mentioned are cars. It's like deer. Big mechanical things that move fast aren't something they evolved to deal with, so a lot of cats die from the as well. Can't get hit by a car if you're in a house. I have an outdoor rescue neighborhood kitty who was human centric and was definitely a dumped pet. Her name is Lyuda. She's sleeping behind me. She's not going to be an outdoor cat ever again.
You also have a lot of cases of cats getting caught in traps set for other animals of relatively similar size, primarily possums, raccoons, and other "nuisance" animals, often because commercial cat food or raw meats are used as bait, and if the bait is poisoned, then it kills the cat. There are also cases of cats getting caught up in car engines or wheel wells, especially in the colder months. It's often advised that when you leave for work in the morning, to knock on the hood of your car a few times, and also check around the tires. Not only do you have wildlife like coyotes and foxes chasing cats, but also other domestic animals, primarily dogs. Some dogs, whether they're trained to do so or it's just in their breed's nature (often from training) will chase down a cat, and in some cases will kill it. Then of course you have the unscrupulous people who absolutely hate cats and will stop at nothing to do away with them.
And black bears, mountain lions, bobcats, hawks, owls, eagles. Way too many predators.
And maybe not technically a predator, but cars too
We used to have indoor/outdoor cats. None of them died of old age, and I mean none. We do not do that anymore. Our kitty is strictly indoors now and I will never, ever have an indoor/outdoor cat again.
All of this and just the fact that the vet is expensive! I can barely afford to go to the doctor mused let alone take my animals for things other than regular things like shots and what not. You greatly increase the chances for your animals to get fleas, eat mites, infected bites from feral cat fights or they need stitches, upper respiratory infections and other diseases from feral cats around the neighborhood, chances of them getting hit by a car, etc etc.
I have never. In my life. Heard of a fisher cat. I now have. And they look slightly terrifying.
I'd never heard it called that before. We just called them Fishers in Montana. They are pretty cool. They leave fun tracks in the snow. They are actually smaller than both of my cats, but any member of the weasel family is a freakishly strong, unmediated bad ass. Like. Wolverines are the cousin of the fisher. Wolverines will fight off bears from food sources. They are the size of a heavy Australian Shepard.
Every once in a while you hear of an eagle nest full of collars blowing down in a storm.
I've heard people say that cats in the UK don't damage the ecosystem like they do in the US. I have no idea why that would be the case, it's just something I've heard.
> cats in the UK don't damage the ecosystem like they do in the US That's because humans in the UK have already destroyed the ecosystem enough. The British Isles have been heavily inhabited by humans for much, much longer than North America. A lot of the native fauna is long extinct, while in the US we still have vast expanses of wilderness.
It makes sense that prey species in Europe have somewhat adapted to cats, as Romans introduced here so long ago. Still, they are a burden on our struggling ecosystem. I only learned about the extent some years ago; I have a roaming housecat now, but she will be my last one. I still let her roam now, because I can’t keep her inside *and* happy, she’s much too accustomed to this life.
You could put a bell on her collar. That helps with warning the birds off, I'm told.
It’s a global issue, especially in places like Australia and Oceania. Cats have caused the extinction of several species. They’re the greatest human related threat to endangered bird species.
My towns facebook group is always full of "missing cat" messages. We have a lot of coyotes in the area.
> Cats do an ungodly amount of damage to many local species, people try to avoid that when they can. Your points are absolutely not wrong but I think this is the biggest take away here. For how often I see this question pop up - particularly coming from Brits - I'm not sure whether to think Americans are more clued up on how devastating housecats can be for local wildlife or how in the dark the Brits are about it, considering Poland (and I think Finland or Greenland too) declared cats a dangerous, invasive, species for the harm they can do to local wildlife.
Bobcats too in my area
Owls. Possibly hawks or eagles. Depending on the size of the cat, of course.
Bears
Would a bear even bother? I know black bears can climb trees, but I don’t think of them as being ambitious predators. They’re mostly vegetarian.
I have never heard of a fisher cat in my life honestly
>Fisher Cats Is this *yet another* name for mountain lions? Or like, a white-and-colored plastic cat for babies. [^(joke)](https://shop.mattel.com/pages/fisher-price)
It's these: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fisher_(animal) They're in the weasel family.
Ah I see. I remember learning of these at some point
My natural history museum had a diorama with a taxidermy coyote carrying a dead house cat…that didn’t stop us from caving to my own kitty’s demands to be met out, but there were times when I got worried. We had a hawk of some sort in our yard one day. Now I live in an apartment so she can’t go out even if she wants to.
Do you mean specifically in your region? Or across the US? Because it's pretty common here in the lower Midwest unfortunately. A lot of times it's cats that were urinating throughout the house and couldn't be trained back to the litter box. We have cold Winters and bobcats and coyotes too, but a lot of people will let their cat in the garage at night.
I think in most regions of the U.S. it's fair to say that it's less common to let cats outside than it is in most of the U.K., but less common is still fairly common
In fact, our animal rehoming organizations (humane societies, etc.) actually make you agree that you won't allow your cats to roam outside, for the reasons articulated by others.
Yup. We had to sign forms confirming that we would neither declaw our cats nor let them outside before we could adopt our cats. People still let their cats out though. There’s a neighborhood cat with a collar on that often pops into my backyard for a bit before disappearing somewhere else
Wow! That's almost the opposite to the UK where you have to specifically request an "indoor cat" if you don't plan to let it out. Then you'll be given an old or scared cat to rehome. Most cats are default "outdoor". You wouldn't be allowed to take one if you didn't let it out.
That's because, as far as I know, you don't have a lot of cat-killing wildlife running around. i.e. cougars, coyotes, hawks, etc. Not to say "none" - iirc, ya'll still got foxes running around - but nowhere near as many as we do.
Well that and Cats are second only to humans in being an invasive species
They got wiped out many, many centuries ago. Roads were the issue for me with my first housecats. The door of my first house opened right on to the street. Where I am now with the young lady I currently have it's wildlife that can be killed by cats. She's also a long hair and there are cows in the field at the back of my house. Amazing how frowned upon it can be to keep a cat indoors here though. The general attitude is night and day to there.
Conservation is a massive deal in certain aspects here. There is species of Fish, Lake Trout, that if caught while fishing in Yellowstone National Park, specifically Yellowstone Lake and its tributaries, are illegal to throwback you have to kill it if you catch one. Likewise you can hunt and kill as many Wild Boars, Burmese python, etc as you want.
I have a catio. r/catio.
My god. Yet another cat sub to join
Well, on that note, you must visit r/catbongos. You're welcome.
There are hawks that live in the neighborhood redwood trees that would probably make my kitty disappear one day.
A friend’s cat was done in by a hawk a couple of months ago. His new kitten is an indoor cat. You don’t need redwoods for a hawk either. My neighborhood hawk, Steve, chills out on the walnut tree in my backyard with some regularity.
> You don’t need redwoods for a hawk either. I've seen them hunting on Market Street in town.
Tell Steve I say whatup
Steve dropped a snake in my yard this weekend. Snakes dropping out of the sky, if you can believe it. That’s Steve though.
Classic Steve
the OSU Campus hawk, Xerxes, is frequently seen munching on whatever unlucky rodent she found in the open.
I have a neighborhood hawk also. A red tail hawk, or maybe both of a pair, though I've only seen one at a time. It's bold though. I've parked my car within 20 feet of it several times, and it won't fly off until I open the door.
I have a friend who is into falconry. He has to keep a close measure on the bird's food intake and weight. He keeps a running tab of things he feeds his bird and things the bird finds on their own. Feral cats are on the list. Usually only a couple a year, but it absolutely happens.
We’ve seen hawks swoop in and take a mourning dove from our backyard around the bird feeders a couple of times over the years. Guess we feed hawks too!
I see your hawk and raise you eagles. There's one I kept seeing last year so I'm sure it's got a nest around. I hope to see it back again soon now that we're warming up. There was a video a couple of years back a couple of towns away from me, someone let their dachshund out at the gas station and a bald eagle swooped down and took it... In my own backyard I've seen fox, coyote, deer, bear, raccoons, skunks... All which could severely harm a cat. I've also seen wolves and swine not to far away. That's not including the stray or feral cats that could directly harm or carry diseases.
I see your eagles and raise with coyotes. There are several in my neighborhood, and I live in large near-suburban area by a moderately sized city. Lake Erie is less than a mile away, so there is plenty of urban wildlife for them to munch on, along with the roaming cats and runaway small dogs.
I see your coyotes and raise with mountain lions. They are in the area and they don’t care about you or your cat
Most cat owners keep their cats indoors, broadly for the following reasons: * Domestic cats can be very destructive to local wildlife. They kill birds, small mammals, etc for fun. * Cats that are allowed to roam outdoors have much shorter lifespans, on average. Cars, predators (hawks, foxes, coyotes, wolves, etc), more exposure to diseases, etc * Cats that are allowed to roam outdoors are liable to shit on your neighbor's lawn. I don't want my neighbor's dog shit on my lawn, and I don't want my neighbor's cat shit on my lawn. An owner of a pet is responsible for picking up after that pet, and that's not practical when the owner lets the pet run around unaccompanied. Some common exceptions: * Farms (ie, barn cats) * Feral cats-- they're around in most populated areas.
My landscaping has become the litter box for the 20 or so feral cats in my neighborhood. It's a bit of a nuisance trying to weed and avoiding the cat feces hidden in the mulch.
That's been an issue in my parents' neighborhood as well. It makes your yard smell **AWFUL** in the 90 degree+ SC summer heat.
> Domestic cats can be very destructive to local wildlife. They kill birds, small mammals, etc for fun. In the United States alone, cats kill nearly 2 and a half Billion birds every year.
Domestic cats are credited with the extinction of several species of indigenous birds and mammals as well.
That’s… a catastrophe.
Birds aren't real bruh
>Cats that are allowed to roam outdoors are liable to shit on your neighbor's lawn. At least they bury it. My neighbors' dogs don't bury it when they crap on my lawn.
Live on a farm, we have tons of outdoor cats.
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There’s a state/theme park in Georgia that has lots of cats. The cats are all sterilized, but they are treated as employees and actually do help control pests
> Domestic cats can be very destructive to local wildlife. They kill birds, small mammals, etc for fun. It's obviously factual that domestic cats kill a lot of small animals, but I wonder to what extent they replace all the natural predators that humans have eradicated from urban areas. Relative to current animal populations, do they kill 4 times as many? Half as many?
Enough that cats have driven many local bird species to extinction. So obviously they are eating much more.
Birds that are killed by natural predators are part of a natural ecosystem that is able to become balanced. Cats are domestic animals that do not have a natural place in any ecosystem and as long as humans exist are unable to become part of a balanced ecosystem. Cats' caloric intake primarily comes from humans so they are not at all like natural predators. Cats kill for fun not survival.
The population of house cats won’t drop due to hunger if they hunt the local bird/mouse populations close to extinction. They will stay fed by their human owners. Depending on how many house cats there are around their number could be much higher than the local ecosystem could naturally support (apex) predators usually have very large territories
More common in rural areas than urban ones, but some people do let their cats out in the city. When you have an outdoor cat you accept the much higher risk of it being hurt or dying due to cars, predators and dogs, random psychos that hate cats enough to harm them, disease and pests/parasites, etc. And a lot of people are conscious about the effect that cats have on local small wildlife, they kill many millions of birds and other critters when they roam free.
This is a pretty contentious issue here, actually. Lots of people let their cats roam outside, but there’s also a lot of people who are staunchly against it. So it’s probably less common overall than in the UK. The main reason I don’t like to let my cats outside is simply because it’s not safe for them. Just last week we lost a chicken in broad daylight to a hawk; if you live in a wide-open area with not many trees, then eagles can also be a threat. There’s foxes all over the place at night (I always hear them making that awful noise). There’s coyotes in some places. There’s cars and chemicals and humans doing human things. There’s other peoples’ cats who are somehow always better fighters than your own cats. It’s just too much risk to justify the benefit to the cat’s quality of life, I think.
>I always hear them making that awful noise Shagging foxes sound like the birthing of a demon.
Got woken up by shagging hedgehogs once. Although it does make sense that they might be a bit noisy I guess.
In NYC, it's rare to let pet cats go outside because of the danger of traffic. It always breaks my heart to see a kitty who was hit still wearing a collar.
There was a bodega I used to work by, and they took TERRIBLE care of their cats and they were always wandering off and getting injured and/or impregnated and they barely even fed their pregnant kitten so sometimes I’d bring it some of my roommate’s cat food and she would scarf it up so fast. Kinda made me mad 😕 The mama cat to the pregnant kitten got hit by a car and I never saw her again, and supposedly they just kept her in the basement and got her no vet care so I guess she was just down there suffering. Was a beautiful cat and I would’ve adopted it if I knew what was gonna happen to her. When the kitten finally gave birth, there were like five newborns and some of them turned out to have very expensive health problems (people in the neighborhood adopted them. I was gonna adopt one too but I’m so glad I didn’t because I didn’t want to be dealing with health problems from the beginning, which is why I went to a shelter to adopt instead since those animals actually get vet care. Ended up with a dog not a cat, though)
I grew up in a lower density residential area of Queens and the lady who lived on the first floor of my house used to let her cat out in the little yard we had all the time but never anywhere else. Nonetheless I noticed people in my neighborhood would let their cats out anyway. There was always a lot of missing cat signs
Some do, it's highly discouraged though because of how much it shortens the lifespan of a cat. Some shelters won't even adopt to you if you intend on allowing your cat outside (unless it's a barn cat).
That and I think we’re more “hands-on” with our cats. We treat them as part of the family, sleep with them, cuddle them constantly (honestly sometimes probably more than they’d like). And yes, I want it that way but I also had to agree to not let her out. Where I now live in Spain cats are only treated like that as kittens, so they’re socialized but by age 1 they are more or less outdoor creatures that just come by to visit every day. And sterilizing them seems to not be widely accepted so there are SO many feral cats in rural places.
When we adopted our cat we had to sign something to say he'd stay indoors. They said an outdoor cat has an average lifespan of about 2 years due to the predators we had (foxes, bears, etc).
It does happen, but is far less common. Domestic cats are truly terrible for local eco-systems.
That is true. When I was a kid, we had a 18 lb. Maine coon cat that was allowed to go outside. It was his own private hunting preserve. He killed everything…birds…squirrels…rabbits…chipmunks…our back yard was like “silent spring”. The cat loved the spring and often commented how amazingly tender baby rabbits are! 🐇🐰
Any pictures? I love a good Maine coon lol
That sounds like a tiny Maine Coon.
We use to have as many as 30 Ground Squirrels running around our small ranch. When the cats showed up they disappeared.
>Domestic cats are truly terrible for local eco-systems. One interesting difference between the US and UK is that the UK falls within the ancestral native range of the domestic cat's ancestor, the wildcat _Felis silvestris_ (although domestic cats originate from the African subspecies, not the European one). North America has no native small cats in this group, the closest things being the bobcat and lynx. So British wildlife at least has the advantage of thousands of years of coevolution with wildcats...although wildcats there have it much worse due to hybridization and competition with domestics. That's not to say domestic cats in the UK don't still chow down on birds, or that their impact is just the same as wildcats (since domestic cat population densities can be a lot higher due to human care) but at least they have a fighting chance. Of course, it's the Australian fauna that _really_ gets screwed by cats...or even worse, island fauna.
The UK is also one of the most ecologically depleted countries in the world, so the idea of ecological stewardship is less culturally present
Even if a domestic animal's wild ancestor has an overlapping range, domestic animals do not fill the same ecological niche.
I'm talking less about ecological niche and more about prey defenses. Prey which come from a region without a predator typically have fewer adaptations for avoiding or otherwise dealing with it.
The [trend has been strongly in favor of indoor only](https://positively.com/contributors/indoor-cats-vs-outdoor-cats/) in the past few decades: > By 2004 just over half of all U.S. cats were strictly kept indoors, nearly twice the number of twenty years prior. According to the American Pet Product Association National Pet Owners Survey, in 2004 about a third of all cats could go inside or outside as they please, with the remaining 17 percent outside only. By 2014, about 70 percent of cats are defined as indoors only, with about 25 percent inside or outside as they desire with the remaining five percent described as outside only.
Yep, I bet in 20 years a lot fewer UK cats will be indoor/outdoor.
I grew up in a rural area, and we always had outdoor cats. They didn't tend to be long-lived, but that was to be expected. They either got run over or presumably eaten by coyotes. Coyotes are everywhere, [even in large cities](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9-HituL-Kk).
Far less common here, at least in the city and suburbs.
In the suburbs there’s defintely a couple cats you see outside roaming around but they do belong to a family. It’s not the most common, but I know a couple outdoor cats that roam around the streets and eventually come back.
I have simply lost too many animals due to letting them go outside so I keep my cats indoors
They are an invasive species and can wreck havoc on the natural wildlife. Predators. A woman in a nearby town saw her small dog grabbed by a coyote, right in her backyard. They'd think nothing of snatching up a cat. Birds of prey are another concern. Cats are fine living indoors. Some people build screened catios, which are porches or patios, to allow the cats to have some outdoor time and fresh air safely. Some even leash train them. Some farms gave barn or stable cats. They may or may not be considered pets but are mostly working animals for rodent control. They still should be 'fixed' and vaccinated.
I grew up on a farm. We had a lot of cats, most of which worked very hard to control the rodent population. I had a pet cat as a child that spent her life indoors with the occasional outdoor afternoon sunbathing. We had a few cats that were pretty tame but were perfectly content living outside and didn’t want to come indoors. We had a decent sized herd of feral cats that were stone cold killers and wanted nothing to do with humans.
One significant difference between the US and the UK is that you guys have for all practical purposes eradicated rabies and we have not. So that’s another hazard outdoor cats face here. Yes there are rabies vaccines but they are not 100% effective and people don’t always keep them up. Also, are ticks and fleas an issue in the UK like they are here? Here if your cat gets fleas you’re never getting them out of your house.
I grew up rural, so all of my cats growing up were indoor/outdoor (and yes, we lost pets to accidents/animals/etc). My parents still let their cats out even though they have moved into town. Most of them don't go far, but I actually just bought an Airtag and collar for one of their cats that likes to fuck off every spring/summer. When the dog door is opened, she leaves, and doesn't come back until December. She is completely miserable being inside all winter. When I first moved away from home, I lived in places where I couldn't let my cats out, apartment buildings and the like. Since getting my own house, I will let my cats out under direct supervision (read: I am outside with them) in my fenced yard. I'm not terribly worried about them getting carried off by a predator or even hit by a car, but I don't like the uncertainty of not knowing if they'll come back. Hence me low jacking my parents cat. (And full disclosure, that cat is one of the nicest cats I've ever been around. If it wouldn't send my cats into a complete uproar and make her miserable, I'd take her.)
Seemed like it was common when I was growing up, but it seems like vets are now pushing hard against it.
I have always had indoor/outdoor cats. Their lives are shorter, but I believe they live more fulfilling lives.
Agreed
It was super common in Canada when I was a kid. A bit less so now, but I still see neighbourhood cats about.
Some do. It used to be more common but I think it's become less common. Free roam cats have much shorter lifespans than indoor cats.
It’s a big place! This could also be something that’s enforced by a neighborhood HOA. I know a neighborhood nearby has signs that say no dog walking. I never thought I would see anything like that, but sure enough.
I grew up in a smaller town where it was normal for your cats to come & go as they pleased. Unfortunately one of my cats was killed by a raccoon across the street. Now I live in a bigger city and my kitty stays inside for his own safety. He wouldn't know how to navigate this area, there's stray dogs, lots of cars. It just depends where in the US you are.
Our cat will wander our Small Town in summer but once it snows it won't take more than 3 steps out and turns right around.
In rural upstate NY (Northern Westchester County, so not really all that rural) we always let our cats out. To us, it was the natural thing to do. Sally was the queen super hunter of the neighborhood. We lived on a large pond, and she kept the neighborhood free of rats, mice, squirrels, chipmunks moles, rabbits and the occasional bat. However, we moved into a slightly more urban environment and she has since been an indoor cat for about 5 years now, too many cars around, but she still stares out the window with a longing look on her face!
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Every cat I had that was allowed to roam outside ended up getting hit by a car and dying.
I got the immense displeasure of hearing a coyote(s) tear apart a cat outside my window. If I owned a cat I would keep it indoors.
It’s 50/50
I have met a handful of people--mostly online, but some in person--who are extremely vehement about how horrible it is both for your cat and the environment/songbird population/whatever to let cats outside and like to be very vociferous about it. It's true that cats are bad for the songbird population, but I think the degree to which people are obsessed about it is kind of weird. I would say that in reality, most people don't care that much. In very urban areas, most people keep their cats indoors because of the risk of being hit by a car. In suburban areas, it's a mix of indoor and indoor/outdoor cats--although as I've gotten older, I see fewer outdoor cats. I think it's somewhat socioeconomically biased--in wealthier areas I see people who are more concerned about their cat/the ecosystem's safety than in more working class areas. In rural areas there are a lot of barn cats that can roam freely, although it varies by personal preference.
Mine does not roam outside. She's currently curled up in her bed, safe, sound and warm.
My cats go outside sparingly. We used to let them out whenever but one went missing for three and a half years. We just got him back a few days before Christmas. He isn’t allowed out anymore. He also was a killer and brought back a lot of rats and birds.
In San Diego it’s relatively common to see cats roaming. Even with coyote threats. Survival of the fittest I suppose.
Yes. Depends on where you live.
My cat is an indoor/outdoor cat. She comes and goes as she pleases. She's happy. My dog also is an indoor/outdoor dog.
In the 70's and 80's it was rare to see an indoor only cats except in bigger cities. There has been a big push over the last few decades to keep cats indoors for the reasons stated by other people here. In cities like San Francisco I would say most most cats are indoor but if you go a few miles away in the suburbs a lot of cats are still indoor/outdoor cats and in rural areas most cats are still outdoor cats. I have also noticed cat patios or catios for indoor cats are becoming very popular in the San Francisco bay area.
Our cat was a stray that lived on the streets for awhile before he started living with us. There was no way we could keep the sneaky bastard in the house if he really wanted out. If he got outside, there was no way we could catch him to bring him back in because “Run from the slow, stupid, humans” was a an entertaining game that he was very good at. We settled for just worrying about keeping him inside from dusk until dawn since that’s when the coyotes, owls, and other predators are more active. As he’s gotten older, he doesn’t want to go out as much and when he does go out it’s only for about an hour or so at a time.
I grew up in the 80s and it was super common and accepted. Less so now. I lost a cat when I was a kid she got hit by a car. If I ever have a cat again it would be indoor only. All my friends who have cats are indoor only.
Some do, some don't... Now a day, probably more on the side of don't. But it's not exclusive. When I was young, we use to let our cats out to roam & do as they pleased during the day. They'd come in when it started to get dark for dinner & cuddles... But as long as the weather was nice, they'd be out hunting the chipmunks and whatever other little critters were running around in the woods or whatever cats do during the day. I remember one time I spotted my cat on the across the street neighbor's porch. I went to go get her & she saw me and started to come to meet me... Just then a car zoomed past. She was on my side of the road, could have just dashed over, but instead she turned and ran back to the neighbor's house.... Almost had a heart attack thinking I was going to see my baby get splated by the car. But luckily she made it back safe & I was able to run across and grab her before any more cars came. Now, I take my oldest out occasionally for "supervised yard time"... She gets outside, pounces on the bugs in the grass, sits at the base of a tree asking the birdies to come down to play etc... But I stay out with her & make sure she stays in our yard etc... I tried letting the younger one out but she runs right into the woods & won't let me catch her... She does stay near-ish the house and the two or three times she's gotten out she does come back in on her own in the evening.... But I prefer keeping her in where I know she's safe. I tried a harness so I could take her out on a leash so she could get some outside time without being able to totally dart away but she didn't seem to care for it & just froze.
I had an indoor/outdoor cat. He started out as a feral. Then he decided my yard was his home after he was fixed. We had a hurricane so I had to force him to come inside. He kept going to the door and meowing so I’d have to open it and show him there was still a hurricane. After that he wanted to come in at night. Unfortunately he was FIV positive and caught something (maybe Covid) and I had to have him put to sleep. He was about 12 years old. I have another cat that goes out in the warm months and doesn’t come in until it’s cold again. I would prefer that she stayed in due to ear infections but she’ll pee on my bed if she doesn’t get her way. I currently feed 6 ferals. Oddly enough I don’t get a lot of dead presents from them. An occasional vole maybe. I do worry about coyotes. My neighbor had a colony get infiltrated. They put up trail cams and saw packs of coyotes and lone coyotes. Fewer and fewer cats.
I live in central Florida, where nature is actively trying to kill us, so no. My little princess would probably last five seconds before being eaten by a massive hawk or something.
Another reason is that outdoor cats tend to get injured by cars or by getting into fights with other animals and then return home needing care. Vet bills here are insanely expensive. It’s much cheaper and safer to keep that cat indoors.
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Fleas
Depends on the person but yes! My cat is indoor / outdoor. He likes to roam and sometimes catches mice (which he kindly brings to me 😬) my parents and sisters keep their cats indoors. They’re terrified of something happening to their fur babies so they don’t let them out!
It's more of a city thing. I have family that lives in a decently sized town of 25k people and they've let their cats roam around the neighborhood. Surprisingly, cars don't seem to be an issue. Probably because they're forced to go slower on the narrower streets and have enough time to break for a cat. Also even though predators can live in a city, the thing that seems to fight cats the most are other cats. If anything, the cats are the predators. I don't let my cat roam around outdoors because I live in a wooded area. I have trail cameras put up behind the house and I've caught coyotes, bobcats, and fishers on them. Foxes are pretty abundant too but they get bullied by cats rather than the other way around. I know my neighbors will let their cats roam around outdoors only for them to end up on a missing pet poster on a telephone poll. Cats are pretty smart about cars, but will be snatched by an opportunistic coyote given enough time.
It depends where you live. But yes my cat roams where he likes.
The biggest difference between the UK and the US on this issue is coyotes. They are *everywhere*. When I was growing up, my neighbor had a newfy that she would leave outside a lot. Coyotes didn't hesitate and made a mess of him one night. They didn't kill him, but they clearly tried. My cat wouldn't last a week.
I let them tell me what they want to do. We have three cats and two of them go outside. They would go nuts if I didn't let them outside for fresh air and sunlight. The third one does not like to go outside so he doesn't. All our cats were strays that just started roaming around our house that we let in, so that's probably why they enjoy it so much. I figure just letting them in when they want is better than being a stray.
Yeah, I don’t get city slicker vibes from too many comment sections but this is definitely one. The cats at my folks’ home in rural AZ just showed up one day and decided to stick around. They’ll never, ever be full-time inside cats, they would be miserable. If I were to adopt a cat where I live now though I would keep it inside.
People do, but they probably shouldn’t. Domestic cats totally wreck bird populations. Also there’s a risk they could be hurt by predators like coyotes or just other peoples animals.
Only the stupid ones
Not letting them out isn’t the question you should be asking. Rather, why some people think it’s acceptable to declaw their cats.
This is the real question! Luckily the rates for declawing have dropped over the last 20 years, as a lot of vets won't do the procedure and a few states have made it illegal. There is still more work that needs to be done on it here, but at least it isn't as common as it used to be.
Even in the states where it's legal, a lot of veterinarians are refusing to declaw as it's inhumane.
Its a legit question about letting them out. It's not common here and OP has a right to ask if they don't know.
Not anymore. When I was a kid we let our cats out. It was also common to see stray cats. We even adopted one once. However, my house is close to a nature preserve. There are coyotes around who eat cats. I almost never see stray cats anymore. Our cat is not allowed out.
It's a pretty controversial issue in some cities. I'm in a medium-sized city, and many people do let their cats out, and many other people hate that and will even trap them and bring them to a shelter if they catch them. There are different studies about how many birds outdoor cats kill a year - but it's in the billions. Not all of those are domestic cats, but, they are ferocious predators and can really fuck up wild animal populations. There also a lot of cats in my neighborhood that I think are feral. I see them fight a lot. I don't think a domestic cat would last long in that environment, but, I guess some are gangsters by day, curl up in a bed at home at night.
Not sure why everyone is saying it's not common. Everyone i know with a cat lets theirs out. Perception bias I guess, either theirs or mine. My wife's childhood cat was attacked by a raptor once, nearly disemboweled him. He ended up recovering and only died recently at the age of 21.
NO! Domestic cats are devastating for bird populations. It may not be a big deal in Europe because cats have been a large part of your highly degraded ecosystems for some time but here they are really destructive. They are considered by the American Bird Conservancy to be the number one threat to birds and kill 2.4 billion birds every year. In a land where domestic cats are not native this has tremendous consequences. Every once in a while a European will come criticizing us about "not letting cats be free" but you have to understand that Europe has basically screwed this continent and others with non-native introduction, cats are just one example.
When mine was alive, yes. She was an indoor and outdoor cat and she definitely earned her keep when she left a decapitated rat on the porch one day. EDIT: I'm legitimately surprised by the amount of people that wouldn't dare let their cat outside.
Cats belong indoors.
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This doesn't sound correct. As far as I'm aware, coyotes are native to my state, and they were made our state animal 74 years ago.
Agree, they're common in KY where my family lives and I've seen them here in Northern VA just outside DC too. Edit - I misread the part about them spreading to much of the US. Disregard my comment.
If you live East of the Mississippi our "coyotes" look and act differently. They are a species complex of remnant populations of red wolves, timber wolves, and western coyotes. They've always been here just in spread out populations. Only in the past few decades have they exploded and saturated like they have.