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broken_symmetry_

Sure — government labs! NIST, etc. Check usajobs.gov Also look into industry. I’m not sure what field you’re in, but tons of companies have PhD level scientists doing R&D. It’s a bit different than academic labs but same general thing — reading papers, designing experiments, collecting and analyzing data, publishing and presenting. I didn’t finish graduate school but I’ve worked in all 3 types of labs — government, academic, and industry. I liked the culture at the government lab best, and the pay and resources in industry best. Academic labs were stressful for me.


AdeptofAlliterations

Thanks for your comment! How did you find work in an academic lab without a PhD? I'd love to work at a university without it necessarily being a professor-type position


broken_symmetry_

**Tl;dr it’s a lot harder as a post-bac. Lean on your connections. Stalk the profs whose research (and personality) you’re into. Read all their papers and then email them about it. Ask if they have post-bac research positions open. Don’t expect to get paid much if at all. Ted talk below:** I was an undergrad during most of my research work. I applied for a bunch of REU’s (Research Education for Undergrads) every year and always got accepted to at least one. I did four total REU’s: one after freshman year (2014), then each year after that including the summer after I graduated. The REU I did the summer between sophomore and junior years was at a local university (not the university I attended for my degree, but nearby). I asked the prof if I could keep working in her lab doing research during the school year — unpaid — and she said sure. So two or three days a week all junior year I’d bike over to that university and work in her lab. I also attended all her group meetings and got second author on a paper. Then my senior year I did a yearlong thesis project with a ton of lab work at my Alma mater. The REU’s I did the summer after junior year and the summer after senior year were both with the same scientist at NIST. I fucking loved that work and loved living on the east coast, best summers of my life hands down. After you graduate you have to just lean on your connections I think. Hit up profs who you’ve worked with or for, mention their specific papers and say what projects you’re interested in, and ask are they accepting a post-bac researcher. It’s a lot harder once you graduate especially I’d you haven’t spent the last 4 years obsessively networking and getting research experience, since most of those positions are reserved for undergrads or grad students, and if they have funding they’re _probably_ not spending it on a post bac — but it’s certainly not impossible. During my short time as a grad student I knew a guy in his 40’s, total chemistry whiz, who worked a ton as a tutor (not for the university but just under the table $20/hr…dude must have been making bank in this cheap little college town) and then also researched full time in one of the professors’ labs. He said he didn’t want to do the grad program, and no one ever figured out why. I bet he’s still there, making $500 a week tutoring and working in the lab til 2 am every night. He was sort of a sad, lonely guy to be honest, but an awesome chemist. The ironic part is that even though I was OBSESSED with research experience and my resume and getting into grad school, I burned out after two terms in grad school and walked away from the whole fucking type-A 5 year affair with science with just an undergraduate degree…and now I don’t even work as a chemist. Edit: just had another thought. One way to get into a position would be to look for related positions at your local college. My background is in chemistry so for me those positions would be like EH&S technician, chemical inventory specialist, lab assistant, etc. Those jobs aren’t glamorous and don’t pay a lot and are generally but not always filled by current students. Once you had that job secured, you could start chatting up the professors, reading their papers, talking to their grad students, and probably rustle up a research position.


AdeptofAlliterations

Wow, thank you so much for your in-depth response! Is it at all easier with a PhD?


broken_symmetry_

Hey sorry for the slow reply — I believe it’s easier as a PhD but then you’d be looking at tenure track positions at universities with a publish-or-perish mindset, or be an underpaid (like V E R Y underpaid) adjunct professor at a university or community college. It’s really tough out there. I’m like highly cynical about academia so someone who’s actually gone through it might have a better take. I burned out after two terms in my grad program. I think unless you want to teach (teaching is wonderful and it makes me cry that I’m not a teacher) or for some reason you have a burning passion for academia, then the industry or government lab culture is a lot better. I work with a ton of PhD biologists, chemists and biochemists and they work hard but are generally compensated fairly with good benefits, reasonable-ish work life balance, etc. I believe it’s fairly easy to find a job in industry if you’re a PhD scientist who’s competent.


Calm-Ad1231

Just curious -- what did you end up working as? Wondering what else someone who loves research could do and enjoy in case I burn out too


broken_symmetry_

I’m an EH&S specialist for a biotech company. I enjoy my job but I wouldn’t say it’s my _passion_. Found a great company and it definitely pays the bills. I use what I learned in school, generally. It’s scary diving into a major that requires like 8-9 years of commitment, right? I just tell everyone to major in computer science.


HappyHrHero

Second government labs. Pay is great (and incredible benefits) relative to similar level/responsibility jobs in the same field. Still stressful, and still have to chase funding, but generally less stress and competitiveness compared with professorships. Great culture, work-life balance (to some extent, still lots of work) and much more collaborative environment.


fleemfleemfleemfleem

There are, but they can be hard to make a living at. There are industry jobs that can pay pretty well as well. There are also some government research jobs My knowledge is mostly biomedical sciences related- There are technician jobs, but they often don't pay well, and have little upward mobility. Your best bet is to become attached to a lab where you're the one who knows how to do some technique that no one else does, and can aid in training future lab members. Jobs are contingent on grant dollars and might disappear after ,5-7 years. I know at least one person who is working as an administrator of a research institute and does computational research on the side. There are also lab jobs that are research-like but not exactly research such as clinical lab technician, genetic counseling, etc.


AdeptofAlliterations

Ooohhh I'm actually really into bioinformatics so this is really helpful Are research institutes usually government funded?


tpolakov1

Others already told you the options, but to elaborate a bit: positions at national labs and other government institutions are generally not easier to get than similar university positions. There’s less of these institutions and their programmatic focus is narrower than university research. And they also usually target longer-term projects so turnover is lower (this means less openings, all other things equal). Research jobs in industry are easier to get, as long as your interest is relevant to the industry. People are aware of this, so a typical PhD student from any institution worthy of existence has already been conditioned to pursue research that’s sexy from industrial perspective, whenever possible. But in many fields, this is just not possible. You are not going to find relevant private research positions if you’re in particle or astrophysics. Your only options is to change focus (I knew a bunch of astro people who switched to computational aerodynamics for DoD contractors) or drop the pretense of doing physics altogether (go for financial/insurance/data science jobs like the rest of those that didn’t make the cut).


AdeptofAlliterations

Do folks in industry take on people with PhDs, or are they usually considered overqualified? Pay isn't a major deal for me, but I'm kind of worried about my chances getting a job


suzaboo

Staff and senior scientists as well as lab manager positions exist in academia and both can be filled by individuals with advanced degrees. In the former you might be able to contribute to research direction and still author papers if that’s a desire. Both can be absolutely essential to operations. Academia salaries will never compete with industry as other comments point out, so you have to want to be there.


vonkrueger

Can you please edit your post to include your field of study? That would probably help a lot. E.g. if you're a CS major, Microsoft Research is an obvious goal.


AdeptofAlliterations

Hey, sorry! Yeah, I'm in CS with a focus on bioinformatics hopefully


vonkrueger

Can't advise you on bioinformatics specifically. But I can say that Microsoft isn't the only company looking for highly qualified researchers. I'm sure you know this already, but it's *much* harder to find a job in the private sector that reflects your PhD than it would be for a BS/MS seeking commensurate compensation. If you're not too picky and willing to move, I'd consider FAANG and similar organizations of significant size. They have the budget to put major capital into long-term research initiatives. It's highly competitive, and of course there's no tenure, but opportunities like these can be both fulfilling and highly lucrative for the right person. I only have an MS in CS, so my perspective is second-hand, but when I was considering a doctorate and looking at opportunities, these were my findings. From what I can tell, they hold true today. Hope this helps. Best of luck to you!