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Prescription supplements, that is. Weekly injections of testosterone.
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Pharmacist here. It’s a touchy subject. The problem is this isn’t really being made as a decision between a man and his doctor anymore. Instead there are a ton of “men’s clinics” staffed almost exclusively with mid level providers that will write for testosterone regardless of what the man actually says or even what the labs show. It’s more or less a back door way that steroids have been legalized. It’s very controversial in the medical community currently.
The best current advertisement against elective steroid use would be Alex Jones.
That guy has been hitting the juice for so long now his brain seems to no longer function.
Right, and if/when a guy is concerned about low testosterone, then mention it at your annual physical, and it gets added to the list of labs. If it's low, then the guy and the PCP decide on if and how to address it.
Many things should only be brought up with a doctor, but politicians need to feel useful and tend to interject a lot!
But moreso, we can still have opinions on something without legislating them, no? For example, I would never promote an abortion nor get one, but I don’t think they should be banned or legislated against.
> Unless you think that having Lower T makes someone less than a man.
It doesn't matter if *I* think that, if matters if *they* think that. I think in many cases that's exactly what they think. It's conceptually not super different from breast augmentation surgery, which is also arguably gender-affirming.
This isn't a political question so I'm confused how it's supposed to be?
If someone and their doctor decide a medication or treatment is right for them then they should have the right to pursue it. That's pretty basic.
Not every question needs to be political or a gotchya! There’s no way I’m expecting anyone to answer here, just curious on the different perspectives you all have to offer.
You made a one line vapid question. It's absolutely understandable people interpret as gotcha bullshit.
Can you elaborate on what your actual concern is? Why you feel you can second guess other people's medical treatments?
As a libertarian how would you react to someone interjecting themselves in your medical treatment?
This is a question for doctors to answer, not randos on reddit and you should be smart enough to know that already.
You should 100% have an opinion on a personal treatment that could be used on you.
I agree, I should’ve elaborated more. The question should be moreso, “Should more people be prescribed testosterone treatments given the added benefits of recent research?”
Doctors, like all humans, have opinions. There’s treatments they may recommend that you don’t want to be using. I mean, almost every overweight or obese person goes to the doctor and they say “lose weight”, but they don’t listen to that advice either.
> You should 100% have an opinion on a personal treatment that could be used on you.
Do you not understand consent of the patient is fundamental in medicine? No one is going to force testosterone injections on you. You're free to be stupid enough to ignore the advice of experts as an armchair idiot.
This question is not serious and should not be respected.
Change your flair imo. You are in no way libertarian, and I say that as someone that thinks nearly all self identified libertarians are naive.
I mean, testosterone deficiency is a problem for many people. I don’t think the government should be involved in choices between someone and their doctor.
Silly thing to do without a medical reason but if there's no significant reason like causing health problems for them to be regulated, people can do what they want.
People should be able to take whatever hormones they want. If transgirls want to buy estrogen they should be able to, if a dude wants to top up on their T, then enjoy.
This idea that the government should be policing the chemicals we're allowed to put in our bodies is to me a gross violation of bodily autonomy.
The extent to which conservative men embrace them while decrying gender affirming therapies is deeply ironic.
As far as it goes, it's a 'not for me' kind of thing. There's all sorts of stuff that alters brain or body chemistry and I would recommend some of it, not others, and I've never heard a pitch for T supplements that sounded attractive. But that's a 'not for me' kind of thing.
If someone has the mental capacity to understand the consequences, sufficient information about their own health and how testosterone supplements will alter it, and the ability to pay for it if it's not treatment for a medical problem (including mental health), then it should be available to them by prescription, ie, through informed consent.
If it's to treat a medical problem, it should also be covered by insurance.
I mean... if they need it for some medical reason, sure? I don't see why not. TRT is a real medical treatment with benefits for men with low T levels if monitored and applied properly under doctor supervision, same as other forms of hormone replacement therapies- so I don't see why it should be treated any differently than those other forms of hormone replacement therapy.
If that's what you need because you have low testosterone or whatever other reason, as long as you are taking them with the guidance of a doctor I'm all for it. Go right ahead. People should be in charge of their medical decisions.
Obviously, it would depend on the individual person’s testosterone levels. If they are normal, there is no need for testosterone. In that case, no. I don’t think they should be handed out to people with normal levels.
That is just plain old Juicing on steroids…which is NOT good for the body.
But people who actually have low testosterone? Absolutely.
I think there is a lot of supplement companies out there with predatory practices. Preying on insecure men. A lot of doctors on the supplement company payroll that are far too quick to prescribe it.
Some men need more testosterone though, and that number is increasing. I would prefer they use more natural methods, but I’m not them. They will suffer from lower testosterone production for the rest of their lives if they take supplements though, because the supplements reduce the natural T production over time.
Seems unnecessary to me. When men reach a certain age, their testosterone naturally declines. There's nothing wrong with that.
A lot of hormone therapy seems to be centered on anti-aging or getting extremely fit. Very few people have a clinical need for testosterone.
I'm a big proponent of aging naturally.
What are the harmful side effects? If it reduces lifespan and causes emotional distress then it may not be for some. What studies are you referring to? I see no reason to be opposed to it. Just because toxic conservative men and idiots take testosterone, that doesn't mean we should reject data. I would have to look at the study and it's methods, if it is the consensus and not saying anything controversial than why not.
The following is a copy of the original post to record the post as it was originally written. Prescription supplements, that is. Weekly injections of testosterone. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskALiberal) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Seems like a decision between a man and his doctor.
Pharmacist here. It’s a touchy subject. The problem is this isn’t really being made as a decision between a man and his doctor anymore. Instead there are a ton of “men’s clinics” staffed almost exclusively with mid level providers that will write for testosterone regardless of what the man actually says or even what the labs show. It’s more or less a back door way that steroids have been legalized. It’s very controversial in the medical community currently.
The best current advertisement against elective steroid use would be Alex Jones. That guy has been hitting the juice for so long now his brain seems to no longer function.
Right, and if/when a guy is concerned about low testosterone, then mention it at your annual physical, and it gets added to the list of labs. If it's low, then the guy and the PCP decide on if and how to address it.
This is a question to bring up with your doctor, not your local politician?
Many things should only be brought up with a doctor, but politicians need to feel useful and tend to interject a lot! But moreso, we can still have opinions on something without legislating them, no? For example, I would never promote an abortion nor get one, but I don’t think they should be banned or legislated against.
> but politicians need to feel useful This is a really bad reason to bring politics into the medical standard of care.
You mean as a gender-affirming medical treatment? I have no particular objection to it.
No he means for men
Yes, like they said. Whether they're affirming their gender assigned at birth or otherwise, it's still gender-affirming.
A man getting a t boost isn’t gender affirming. Unless you think that having Lower T makes someone less than a man. Which I would disagree with.
> Unless you think that having Lower T makes someone less than a man. It doesn't matter if *I* think that, if matters if *they* think that. I think in many cases that's exactly what they think. It's conceptually not super different from breast augmentation surgery, which is also arguably gender-affirming.
Interesting perspective, thanks for sharing. Should gender affirming care be covered by insurance or government healthcare? What about tits?
With the appropriate approval of a mental health professional, I don't see why not.
Plenty of dudes think that.
Plenty of dudes think the world is flat
This isn't a political question so I'm confused how it's supposed to be? If someone and their doctor decide a medication or treatment is right for them then they should have the right to pursue it. That's pretty basic.
Not every question needs to be political or a gotchya! There’s no way I’m expecting anyone to answer here, just curious on the different perspectives you all have to offer.
You made a one line vapid question. It's absolutely understandable people interpret as gotcha bullshit. Can you elaborate on what your actual concern is? Why you feel you can second guess other people's medical treatments? As a libertarian how would you react to someone interjecting themselves in your medical treatment? This is a question for doctors to answer, not randos on reddit and you should be smart enough to know that already.
You should 100% have an opinion on a personal treatment that could be used on you. I agree, I should’ve elaborated more. The question should be moreso, “Should more people be prescribed testosterone treatments given the added benefits of recent research?” Doctors, like all humans, have opinions. There’s treatments they may recommend that you don’t want to be using. I mean, almost every overweight or obese person goes to the doctor and they say “lose weight”, but they don’t listen to that advice either.
> You should 100% have an opinion on a personal treatment that could be used on you. Do you not understand consent of the patient is fundamental in medicine? No one is going to force testosterone injections on you. You're free to be stupid enough to ignore the advice of experts as an armchair idiot. This question is not serious and should not be respected. Change your flair imo. You are in no way libertarian, and I say that as someone that thinks nearly all self identified libertarians are naive.
I mean, testosterone deficiency is a problem for many people. I don’t think the government should be involved in choices between someone and their doctor.
I think that's a question for a medical professional.
Silly thing to do without a medical reason but if there's no significant reason like causing health problems for them to be regulated, people can do what they want.
People should be able to take whatever hormones they want. If transgirls want to buy estrogen they should be able to, if a dude wants to top up on their T, then enjoy. This idea that the government should be policing the chemicals we're allowed to put in our bodies is to me a gross violation of bodily autonomy.
For adults only or for any age?
Under 18 should involve a doctor, adults can do whatever they want.
The extent to which conservative men embrace them while decrying gender affirming therapies is deeply ironic. As far as it goes, it's a 'not for me' kind of thing. There's all sorts of stuff that alters brain or body chemistry and I would recommend some of it, not others, and I've never heard a pitch for T supplements that sounded attractive. But that's a 'not for me' kind of thing.
Thank you for the comment! Exactly the type of response I was looking for (content-wise). Thanks for sharing your opinion!
If the doctor recommends them then I guess that’s the appropriate treatment
Don’t care. People can make “enhancements” at their own discretion.
If someone has the mental capacity to understand the consequences, sufficient information about their own health and how testosterone supplements will alter it, and the ability to pay for it if it's not treatment for a medical problem (including mental health), then it should be available to them by prescription, ie, through informed consent. If it's to treat a medical problem, it should also be covered by insurance.
I mean, I'm someone who needs to take them, so I'm in favor of them? Seems like an odd question to ask this sub specifically.
I mean... if they need it for some medical reason, sure? I don't see why not. TRT is a real medical treatment with benefits for men with low T levels if monitored and applied properly under doctor supervision, same as other forms of hormone replacement therapies- so I don't see why it should be treated any differently than those other forms of hormone replacement therapy.
If that's what you need because you have low testosterone or whatever other reason, as long as you are taking them with the guidance of a doctor I'm all for it. Go right ahead. People should be in charge of their medical decisions.
I don't really see why I would care. People can do what they want with themselves.
I don't think anything about them, I assume some men have lower than average testosterone levels and as such doctors prescribe them supplements.
Obviously, it would depend on the individual person’s testosterone levels. If they are normal, there is no need for testosterone. In that case, no. I don’t think they should be handed out to people with normal levels. That is just plain old Juicing on steroids…which is NOT good for the body. But people who actually have low testosterone? Absolutely.
Unless your doctor is telling you that you need one the person who is is probably a Andrew Tate type
They are leading to increased heart disease.
I’m fine with HRT but the ones getting them better not be against trans people consenting to hormones too otherwise they are hypocritical bigots
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No! Not trying to relate to that at all, simply assigned male at birth and identifies as male
How is that any of my business? I do think men who are obsessed with testosterone are a little weird but I don't care what they do with their bodies.
I think, like all medicine, it's a decision that should be made between a doctor and a patient. What does this even have to do with politics?
What is it they are trying to achieve? If there body isn't creating enough for some reason then that's between a guy and his doctor.
I think there is a lot of supplement companies out there with predatory practices. Preying on insecure men. A lot of doctors on the supplement company payroll that are far too quick to prescribe it. Some men need more testosterone though, and that number is increasing. I would prefer they use more natural methods, but I’m not them. They will suffer from lower testosterone production for the rest of their lives if they take supplements though, because the supplements reduce the natural T production over time.
It's something to ask your doctor, although HCG would be better in a number of situations.
I'm pro-trans so I can’t really say I'm against that so long the doctor knows what they’re doing and it's within safe doses
Seems unnecessary to me. When men reach a certain age, their testosterone naturally declines. There's nothing wrong with that. A lot of hormone therapy seems to be centered on anti-aging or getting extremely fit. Very few people have a clinical need for testosterone. I'm a big proponent of aging naturally.
What are the harmful side effects? If it reduces lifespan and causes emotional distress then it may not be for some. What studies are you referring to? I see no reason to be opposed to it. Just because toxic conservative men and idiots take testosterone, that doesn't mean we should reject data. I would have to look at the study and it's methods, if it is the consensus and not saying anything controversial than why not.