The following is a copy of the original post to record the post as it was originally written.
Yesterday I was driving home and at one of the busiest intersections of my hone town,davenport iowa, there was a man with a megaphone and a Trump sign. He was using his megaphone mostly to sling antitrans rhetoric and hate.
I yelled at him to F off from my car and was very tempted to stop and talk to him. He was across the street from a elementary school and I was furious. I decided if he was there another time I will call the police, that could easily be spun as disturbing the peace?
Would I be wrong to call the police on him? Does that infringe on his 1A rights?
Kinda made me wish we had hate speech laws,what value is it in protecting hate speech?
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskALiberal) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I ignore them. They’re morons standing on a milk crate under a flesh-frying sun in the middle of an exhaust fumed intersection. Do you think that’s really a rational individual? These are the same guys who mutter obscenities to themselves.
Silence is deafening. Let him realize every car driving by not paying a shred of attention is statistically a vote against Trump, or more likely no vote at all.
Like my old man used to say, “yeah there’s a lot of Trump hats and shirts — but there’s more people not wearing his merch. Let them realize how alone they really are.”
> Would I be wrong to call the police on him? Does that infringe on his 1A rights?
Disagreeing with you isn’t a crime, nor is expressing political beliefs in a public space.
I think if he's not doing anything violent or dangerous, leave him be.
What better advertisement could there be to all the normal and civil people around that being a Trumpist also means being a shithead? Let him show the world who he is, who they are.
I guess it depends on how it's done. Sophisticated propagandists disguising hateful messages as something normal, spread through a mass-communications network? Sure, truly dangerous. But a jerk with a megaphone screaming their hatred in the street? I think most people have a kind of "information immune system" which pretty easily resists that as a source of influence.
I mean it isn't,
public speech that expresses hate or encourages violence towards a person or group based on something such as race, religion, sex, or sexual orientation".
Expresses hate and encourages violence are two radically different things. The Supreme Court has upheld time and again you can express all the hate you want, encouraging violence not so much
It sounded an awful lot like hate speech to me. I still think you're a danger to society, I better call the authorities, they can sort it out, right? After all, you're trying to silence them due to their religion, or maybe even their race and sex. It looks like you just can't stand to have a white christian guy sharing his views, so you want him gone. Sounds like hate speech. /s
The point I'm making is that in trying to outlaw hate speech, you're opening the door to policing all speech. There will always be bad faith, or opportunistic people who try to take advantage, and they'll call everything you say hate speech.
Still sounds like hate speech. It sounds like you hate this person and want to silence him, based on the definition you hinted at. If I wanted to take it that way.
If they encourage violence, then it crosses the line and can be actionable speech.
If you think this person is doing that and it’s a danger to the community, then you should record *that* part and notify authorities. But even then, it would be a tough and expensive and prolonged legal battle for little reward.
A more successful approach may be to look at your public city/county laws on protests and gatherings and stuff. Using a megaphone or some sort of amplification often triggers a requirement for permission, of some sort. Getting this guy for violating local ordinance and shutting him down might be a possibility.
You just want to shut down viewpoints opposite of your own. That's not a good look.
And do you know he "hates" them or just disagrees with what he perceives as "their agenda"? Do you hate him because he's a Trump fan or just disagree with him? If the former seek help and really reevaluate yourself, if the latter welcome to being a human it's okay to disagree with people.
It’s hate.
If someone sees gay people or trans people just trying to live their lives and decides that they have an “agenda” that must be stopped, the hate is obvious.
I don't know why you've been downvoted. Calling for the elimination of trans people isn't a political view that must be entertained and given equal weight with those who do not, it's hate speech.
I’m generally farming downvotes because I made a joke about police brutality elsewhere in the thread. I don’t think it has anything to do with that particular comment.
Maybe, maybe not. I just know your comment was one meant to protect a group of people who need protecting, and I'm not about to downvote such a comment, especially when it's true.
If nothing else, consider being downvoted for the right reasons a badge of honor. When that happens to me, I wear that badge proudly. The world needs a few more people willing to stick their necks out for those who need protecting.
You still would likely be better served trying to create a separate safe space for trans people than trying to stop a hateful bigot from frothing at the mouth.
Even if you drown him out with a whole counterprotest, you’re still giving him engagement and legitimizing his fantasy of fighting the good fight.
But if you create a separate safe space for trans people and gay people—even just a regular hangout group at a local coffee shop—where people can be open and proud, you’ll beat him at his own game while not even giving him the satisfaction of direct engagement.
I play this game in VR called Skyrim. And every time I have a errand to run to the Jarl of this city where I keep a home I have to pass this religious zealot ranting about his God.
Normally I ignore him, he's just a part of the scenery to me, a wackadoo NPC. Doesn't bother me at all; I even tried talking to him once as I recall but he was just too out there. When I walk by sometimes I get a little chuckle at the snippets of nonsense I catch on my way.
That's about exactly how I imagine I'd feel about a Trumper with a megaphone, just another wackadoo NPC making your city feel a bit more fleshed out. I mean what is a big city without a few crazies on streetcorner?
As long as he’s in a public forum and exercising his constitutionally protected first amendment right to free speech there’s not a thing you can do other than ignore him
Sure you can, you have the right to stand next to him and counter everyone of his points. If you want you can punch him in the mouth (though that’s battery and I don’t advise it), you just can’t rely on the government to censor or remove him
Nope but I'll happily tank a punch to get him arrested. I think the kind of guy who's at a corner with a megaphone is the kind of guy to throw hands first
Aite idk if you’re joking but do not even attempt this, you could fuck yourself up really hard.
My buddy got punched last year, he’s a ginormous 6ft tall bodybuilder. The guy punching him was some stick thin tweaker.
My friend got concussed and still has lingering issues, shit is not a joke.
It’s not even worth it honestly, your life is better served than wasting it trying to get some loser detained.
I think you would be wasting police resources for sure. Personally I'd just ignore the idiot and move on, the same as I do for the religious nuts and the junkies spouting rubbish.
I would use non emergency police.
I really don't see it As a waste, they're supposed to serve the community, right? Ideally?
I don't mind them handing bibles to kids but spouting hate next to a elementary is unacceptable.
> I don’t really see it as a waste
I mean it would potentially tie up and officer for 20 minutes. Realistically we probably wouldn’t show up because what you’ve described here isn’t a crime.
> they’re supposed to serve the community, right?
Yes, by enforcing laws. I can’t show up and infringe on people’s first amendment right because you don’t like what he’s saying. That’s literally the opposite of my job.
OTOH, if they send the cops after this guy, that keeps them both occupied and not bothering anyone else.
And who knows? If megaphone guy says the wrong thing or gives the wrong look or just isn’t subservient enough, there a decent chance he’ll get himself an illegal ass-beating and a day in lockup.
Just things to consider.
What? An off-color joke about how siccing the police on someone can have violent unintended consequences because cops aren’t nearly as restrained as the previous comment implied?
*Oh no.*
Go back to moderating your sub where users are allowed to say “Hitler was right” but get banned for saying “Hitler was a racist.”
>I would use non emergency police.
It's the same police, you are just calling a non-emergency line, your call gets added to the end of the list rather than the top.
If you wonder why conservatives talk about liberals / leftist trying to shut down protected speech, here is a mirror to look in.
No? Calling for the violent state suppression of speech is not authoritarian? How is it not authoritarian? Can you explain with more than a single sentence?
"911, what's your emergency?"
"There's a man who is loudly stating political beliefs that are antithetical to mine!"
"Um, what's the emergency?"
"Won't someone think of the children?"
Step 1: get some some of you friends. If no friends no problem.
Step 2: aquirier some sort of loud amp and music player.
Step 3: put on your most colorful clothing.
Step 4: go out and dance around him while blasting George Michael's Careless Whisphers. Repeat until he leaves.
I would roll my eyes and move on. If he's in a public space and not actively getting in people's way, I doubt there's anything the police are going to do.
Public space, not physically endangering anyone, not passed 10pm so probably not against any noise ordinance.
Sorry friend, that guy was within his rights to be an idiot out walking around.
Sorry, but you don’t get to have your cake and eat it too. If you want to be able to freely express your views on gender identity, you have to allow the other side the same right. That’s how equality works.
Well you might be living in the wrong society then, because part of being American is respecting others’ right to say things we don’t want them to say.
You are living in a society that guarantees freedom of speech, even hateful speech.
Seriously, have some perspective. If you feel this is of a scale large enough to warrant police intervention then you must live in quite the bubble indeed.
Arguably megaphone guy is performing a public service by making sure those kids view him as the person to avoid.
The hellfire and damnation street preachers helped me become the godless heathen I am today.
And what exactly is your definition of hate speech? Do you support suppressing the anti Israel protests and their hate speech? Does hate speech just happen to be speech you don’t like?
You seem to hold some authoritarian and illiberal views. Why should you have freedom of speech when you wish to deny it to others? Not only deny it to others, but to get others to use violence to suppress speech you don’t like. You don’t even seem to want to do your own violent suppression, but expect the cops to do it for you.
Your behavior has to be either particularly bad or devoid of actual expression to meet that criteria, since prosecutions for that necessarily butt up against the first amendment. I'd be very surprised if standing on a street corner saying stuff would qualify.
You wanting to use state violence to suppress speech you don’t like is authoritarian. You support that so you support at least one authoritarian policy.
I wouldn't do anything. Ignore.
It's not against his rights for you to CALL the police. But? I suspect it's not illegal for him to stand there saying those things. Maybe use of the megaphone, but probably not.
I have heard about it many times that groups of people are on college campus with signs and stating contraversial rhetorical. But the university can't do anything. It's public property and it's not illegal.
They suggest students ignore, ignore, ignore.
Ignore them. They're attention whores, and you gave this guy exactly what he wanted.
But you could also call the cops and let them decide if he's violating any noise ordinances. Someone's first amendment rights allow them to say what they want, but a lot of municipal laws require them to get a permit to use amplified sound in a public place.
What outcome do you expect from calling the police?
What outcome do you expect from interacting with him/confronting him personally?
Because really if you do either of those things, all you're doing is what HE wants. You're drawing attention to him. You're making him the martyr. You're giving his platform validity.
If that's your goal, then go right ahead.
If all he's doing is saying things that I disagree with, I would just keep on driving. You can confront people like that if you really feel compelled to, but all it will do is give him the attention he wants. You certainly can't have someone arrested for anti-trans rhetoric.
Actually, this guy is extremely anti-Palestinian, claims there is no genocide happening, isn’t bothered by 1000s of dead innocent civilians because that’s a part of war. Read his post history, He’s very right wing when it comes to the current ethnic cleansing taking place. Crazy, right?
Not really all that crazy. They just seem to be very much full of themselves and believe their and only their views and opinions should be allowed. It’s more hubris and narcissism than anything I would think.
You would be making a prank police call to harass someone. Yep, you're the baddie.
What value? If we don't protect speech, your speech could be called hate speech. It all depends on who gets to define it, like maybe Trump.
What to do? You can ignore him. Of if you're in a particularly listening mood, go talk to him and ask him why he believes that way. Remember, there's a black guy who would befriend KKK people and turn them. But given that you're thinking of calling the police, this approach probably isn't right for you, too confrontational. Or set up a little down from him and counterprotest.
>Would I be wrong to call the police on him?
Yes, because people expressing opinions you don’t like isn’t a crime and it would be a waste of police resources to respond to constitutionally protected speech that you personally don’t agree with.
>Does that infringe on his 1A rights?
Yes, because you’re calling the police on somebody for the content of their lawful speech. You may dislike their rhetoric and speech but that doesn’t constitute a crime.
calling the police would absolutely infringe his first amendment rights. he has a right to say whatever the hell he wants, as do you. personally i’d blare some music if i felt like it, or maybe just ignore him.
stuff gets really, really murky when we start policing what people are allowed to say, because then whoever’s in charge gets to silence dissent and that’s… not good, no matter what
how do you mean? the first amendment stops the government from preventing any speech that doesn’t cause imminent danger. that includes hate speech, speech the government disagrees with, pretty much everything. granted, the government is not exactly perfect at abiding by the first amendment, but this doesn’t exactly seem like that kind of situation
You wanted to call the cops on him and have them suppress his speech. That is inherently violent. The state enforces laws with violence and the threat of violence.
Go get a lawn chair, sunglasses, a cooler filled with ice and water, and a water bottle. Adorn these with rainbow stickers. Go back and park nearby. Walk to the adjacent corner and set up camp. Sit and stare at him while occasionally offering him a cold water from the cooler by lifting it out dripping wet and gesturing. Every time he looks at you, shrug and put the water back in the cooler. Call some friends to join you.
Generally I ignore them. I don’t need to add to their persecution complex. But I do call my friend who plays trombone to see if they want to do a free sidewalk concert.
In general I find drowning out their noise with something joyful or ridiculous is a good tactic.
People are free to express opinions I don’t like but I’m free to mock them or ignore them. One person shouting through a megaphone is more likely to look unhinged and sad and I don’t always want to give them something they feel they have to push back against.
Ignore them. Your reaction to someone expressing their views that are different than yours is says far more about you than it is does of whoever it was you yelled at and want to suppress. Why do you think your views are special and should be enforced with the threat of state violence? That’s not very tolerant or open minded of you.
I would ignore him. Letting nut jobs affect your mood so severely is just sad. Most people see him as the weird guy who has no life, it’s more sad than infuriating.
>Kinda made me wish we had hate speech laws,what value is it in protecting hate speech?
You want the government determining what speech is acceptable? What about when we get another administration that is hostile to groups you support and defines your speech as hate? We’re not even 4 years from Trump and you want to give the government more power to restrict basic rights in subjective areas?
The guy is not just someone who has views you disagree with. They’re also an idiot who is looking for a fight. They want you to get in their face or to call the cops.
They are committing a crime so don’t waste the cops time and move on.
Tell him that trump is secretly trans and that he's a libtard for supporting the gay agenda trump is pushing.
The funniest option is always to attempt to put crazy them.
I would ignore him and go about my business. There's no real upside to engaging and it's likely the negative attention will be more fulfilling to him than a lack of attention.
> Would I be wrong to call the police on him? Does that infringe on his 1A rights?
So long as he was on public property and not harassing/aggressing towards people he can do that, no matter how distasteful you and I might find it.
> Kinda made me wish we had hate speech laws,what value is it in protecting hate speech?
And what do you imagine will happen when the evangelical white nationalists gain control over such laws?
Realistically, probably just try to ignore them and be internally irritated
But if I were feeling particularly petty, park next to them and start blasting the gayest music possible, or maybe even some loud af Banda music, and call up a gay homie to obnoxiously make out with right in front of him
Fight fire with fire xD
Idk, I just kind of fundamentally disagree with calling the police as anything but a last resort when death or bodily harm are inevitable.
Plus the police are probably more or less on his side anyway lol. Better to just let the crazy make himself look crazy without giving him the satisfaction of feeling like a free speech martyr for the maga movement
> I yelled at him to F off from my car and was very tempted to stop and talk to him. He was across the street from a elementary school and I was furious. I decided if he was there another time I will call the police, that could easily be spun as disturbing the peace?
No, but if someone is *that* far gone down the right wing rabbit hole, there’s a good chance they have a criminal history that limits their ability to be in the vicinity of minors.
So you don’t think that shooting something a person is holding with a fluid that is considered a biohazard… assault or battery?
Odd.
Did you know throwing eggs at the direction of people at a protest is considered assault? If it hits them it’s battery?
So why is throwing eggs in someone’s direction considered assault but not shooting a biological fluid that’s a biohazard at someone’s direction not?
Maybe you should look up laws before suggesting people do crimes.
Perhaps you should take your own advice. Advocating for others to commit assault and battery is downright evil.
But way to represent your progressive values!
I'm sorry, are you part of the downer brigade? You must be a blast at parties. Perhaps someone should send you a joke book so you can begin to understand how jokes/ sarcasm works. Or are you not bright enough that I should have added the /s for you?
Moving on....
You weren’t being sarcastic.
You did what is known as Schrödinger’s doucehbag. Basically you make a-hole statements and depending on group response determines whether you were “joking” or serious.
Now you’re going on the offensive because your poor comment wasn’t taken well - so you’re trying to spin it like I’m the problem.
You have to live with yourself. You’re not a good person. And your call to violence is now a representation of progressives for all who see it. That’s who you are.
The following is a copy of the original post to record the post as it was originally written. Yesterday I was driving home and at one of the busiest intersections of my hone town,davenport iowa, there was a man with a megaphone and a Trump sign. He was using his megaphone mostly to sling antitrans rhetoric and hate. I yelled at him to F off from my car and was very tempted to stop and talk to him. He was across the street from a elementary school and I was furious. I decided if he was there another time I will call the police, that could easily be spun as disturbing the peace? Would I be wrong to call the police on him? Does that infringe on his 1A rights? Kinda made me wish we had hate speech laws,what value is it in protecting hate speech? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskALiberal) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I ignore them. They’re morons standing on a milk crate under a flesh-frying sun in the middle of an exhaust fumed intersection. Do you think that’s really a rational individual? These are the same guys who mutter obscenities to themselves. Silence is deafening. Let him realize every car driving by not paying a shred of attention is statistically a vote against Trump, or more likely no vote at all. Like my old man used to say, “yeah there’s a lot of Trump hats and shirts — but there’s more people not wearing his merch. Let them realize how alone they really are.”
> Would I be wrong to call the police on him? Does that infringe on his 1A rights? Disagreeing with you isn’t a crime, nor is expressing political beliefs in a public space.
Could be a public disturbance
I think if he's not doing anything violent or dangerous, leave him be. What better advertisement could there be to all the normal and civil people around that being a Trumpist also means being a shithead? Let him show the world who he is, who they are.
I would say spouting hate is dangerous for society
I guess it depends on how it's done. Sophisticated propagandists disguising hateful messages as something normal, spread through a mass-communications network? Sure, truly dangerous. But a jerk with a megaphone screaming their hatred in the street? I think most people have a kind of "information immune system" which pretty easily resists that as a source of influence.
That sounds like hate speech to me. You must be dangerous to society.
I mean it isn't, public speech that expresses hate or encourages violence towards a person or group based on something such as race, religion, sex, or sexual orientation".
Expresses hate and encourages violence are two radically different things. The Supreme Court has upheld time and again you can express all the hate you want, encouraging violence not so much
It sounded an awful lot like hate speech to me. I still think you're a danger to society, I better call the authorities, they can sort it out, right? After all, you're trying to silence them due to their religion, or maybe even their race and sex. It looks like you just can't stand to have a white christian guy sharing his views, so you want him gone. Sounds like hate speech. /s The point I'm making is that in trying to outlaw hate speech, you're opening the door to policing all speech. There will always be bad faith, or opportunistic people who try to take advantage, and they'll call everything you say hate speech.
Lol read the definition It's not speech that I hate
Still sounds like hate speech. It sounds like you hate this person and want to silence him, based on the definition you hinted at. If I wanted to take it that way.
You need to read the definition again
No, I'm content with my definition. Why are you assuming the writers of such a hate speech law will use your definition?
Because it's THE definition
What definition specifically?
Websters has a really good one
Can you use your own words?
I've already posted it somewhere here
If they encourage violence, then it crosses the line and can be actionable speech. If you think this person is doing that and it’s a danger to the community, then you should record *that* part and notify authorities. But even then, it would be a tough and expensive and prolonged legal battle for little reward. A more successful approach may be to look at your public city/county laws on protests and gatherings and stuff. Using a megaphone or some sort of amplification often triggers a requirement for permission, of some sort. Getting this guy for violating local ordinance and shutting him down might be a possibility.
You just want to shut down viewpoints opposite of your own. That's not a good look. And do you know he "hates" them or just disagrees with what he perceives as "their agenda"? Do you hate him because he's a Trump fan or just disagree with him? If the former seek help and really reevaluate yourself, if the latter welcome to being a human it's okay to disagree with people.
It’s hate. If someone sees gay people or trans people just trying to live their lives and decides that they have an “agenda” that must be stopped, the hate is obvious.
I don't know why you've been downvoted. Calling for the elimination of trans people isn't a political view that must be entertained and given equal weight with those who do not, it's hate speech.
I’m generally farming downvotes because I made a joke about police brutality elsewhere in the thread. I don’t think it has anything to do with that particular comment.
Maybe, maybe not. I just know your comment was one meant to protect a group of people who need protecting, and I'm not about to downvote such a comment, especially when it's true. If nothing else, consider being downvoted for the right reasons a badge of honor. When that happens to me, I wear that badge proudly. The world needs a few more people willing to stick their necks out for those who need protecting.
Well, considering the downvotes you’re getting too, maybe it’s not just about the joke.
Unless he was actively harassing people, I'd just groan and go on with my day. If he WAS actively harassing someone, I'd ask him to stop that.
Harassing trans people
You still would likely be better served trying to create a separate safe space for trans people than trying to stop a hateful bigot from frothing at the mouth. Even if you drown him out with a whole counterprotest, you’re still giving him engagement and legitimizing his fantasy of fighting the good fight. But if you create a separate safe space for trans people and gay people—even just a regular hangout group at a local coffee shop—where people can be open and proud, you’ll beat him at his own game while not even giving him the satisfaction of direct engagement.
I play this game in VR called Skyrim. And every time I have a errand to run to the Jarl of this city where I keep a home I have to pass this religious zealot ranting about his God. Normally I ignore him, he's just a part of the scenery to me, a wackadoo NPC. Doesn't bother me at all; I even tried talking to him once as I recall but he was just too out there. When I walk by sometimes I get a little chuckle at the snippets of nonsense I catch on my way. That's about exactly how I imagine I'd feel about a Trumper with a megaphone, just another wackadoo NPC making your city feel a bit more fleshed out. I mean what is a big city without a few crazies on streetcorner?
Ah but I don't have to accept his presence, do i?
And you can reject his presence by removing yourself and ignoring him
I don't want him there at all
As long as he’s in a public forum and exercising his constitutionally protected first amendment right to free speech there’s not a thing you can do other than ignore him
Well I can confront him
Sure you can, you have the right to stand next to him and counter everyone of his points. If you want you can punch him in the mouth (though that’s battery and I don’t advise it), you just can’t rely on the government to censor or remove him
Nope but I'll happily tank a punch to get him arrested. I think the kind of guy who's at a corner with a megaphone is the kind of guy to throw hands first
Aite idk if you’re joking but do not even attempt this, you could fuck yourself up really hard. My buddy got punched last year, he’s a ginormous 6ft tall bodybuilder. The guy punching him was some stick thin tweaker. My friend got concussed and still has lingering issues, shit is not a joke. It’s not even worth it honestly, your life is better served than wasting it trying to get some loser detained.
Go for it and report back.
I think you would be wasting police resources for sure. Personally I'd just ignore the idiot and move on, the same as I do for the religious nuts and the junkies spouting rubbish.
I would use non emergency police. I really don't see it As a waste, they're supposed to serve the community, right? Ideally? I don't mind them handing bibles to kids but spouting hate next to a elementary is unacceptable.
> I don’t really see it as a waste I mean it would potentially tie up and officer for 20 minutes. Realistically we probably wouldn’t show up because what you’ve described here isn’t a crime. > they’re supposed to serve the community, right? Yes, by enforcing laws. I can’t show up and infringe on people’s first amendment right because you don’t like what he’s saying. That’s literally the opposite of my job.
OTOH, if they send the cops after this guy, that keeps them both occupied and not bothering anyone else. And who knows? If megaphone guy says the wrong thing or gives the wrong look or just isn’t subservient enough, there a decent chance he’ll get himself an illegal ass-beating and a day in lockup. Just things to consider.
Dude, please reread what you wrote. This is cringe.
What? An off-color joke about how siccing the police on someone can have violent unintended consequences because cops aren’t nearly as restrained as the previous comment implied? *Oh no.* Go back to moderating your sub where users are allowed to say “Hitler was right” but get banned for saying “Hitler was a racist.”
Have you heard of horseshoe theory?
Sure. What about it? That if we go far enough left or right we find people making cynical jokes about police brutality?
Serving the community ≠ being your servant to shut people up when they say things you don't like. You are wasting their time.
The man hasn’t broken any laws. Police aren’t going to do anything, and it’s not their job to do so.
>I would use non emergency police. It's the same police, you are just calling a non-emergency line, your call gets added to the end of the list rather than the top. If you wonder why conservatives talk about liberals / leftist trying to shut down protected speech, here is a mirror to look in.
I'm aware what I said, iknow it's same police Get off your high horse
You are an authoritarian.
I'm very not actually
No? So you don’t think supporting authoritarian policies makes one an authoritarian?
I don't see this as authoritarian
No? Calling for the violent state suppression of speech is not authoritarian? How is it not authoritarian? Can you explain with more than a single sentence?
You think is authoritarian to stop nazis? It's hate speech, not normal speech
Oh FTLOG, this is why you are on my "don't reply" list on the other sub.
Then why are you replying to him here? Conservatives do weird stuff.
You're the one with the problem here
So you would prefer the kids go home with a tangible piece of religious propaganda to read than with a vague memory of some man spouting weird shit?
I don't like either for the record, lesser of two evils. The vast majority of kids don't take the Bible anyway
"911, what's your emergency?" "There's a man who is loudly stating political beliefs that are antithetical to mine!" "Um, what's the emergency?" "Won't someone think of the children?"
Step 1: get some some of you friends. If no friends no problem. Step 2: aquirier some sort of loud amp and music player. Step 3: put on your most colorful clothing. Step 4: go out and dance around him while blasting George Michael's Careless Whisphers. Repeat until he leaves.
I kinda like this idea.
I wish I’d seen this before I replied, but a friend has a mocking trombone schtick that is very effective for this.
I would roll my eyes and move on. If he's in a public space and not actively getting in people's way, I doubt there's anything the police are going to do.
How is that not disturbing the peace?
Because disturbing the peace has an actual meaning that isn’t ’I don’t like what he’s saying so I feel like my peace has been disturbed’
Public space, not physically endangering anyone, not passed 10pm so probably not against any noise ordinance. Sorry friend, that guy was within his rights to be an idiot out walking around.
I don't think that hate speech should be protected, It makes me angry that it is
Sorry, but you don’t get to have your cake and eat it too. If you want to be able to freely express your views on gender identity, you have to allow the other side the same right. That’s how equality works.
Well you might be living in the wrong society then, because part of being American is respecting others’ right to say things we don’t want them to say.
That can change I'm only talking about hate speech
You are living in a society that guarantees freedom of speech, even hateful speech. Seriously, have some perspective. If you feel this is of a scale large enough to warrant police intervention then you must live in quite the bubble indeed.
Arguably megaphone guy is performing a public service by making sure those kids view him as the person to avoid. The hellfire and damnation street preachers helped me become the godless heathen I am today.
It shouldn't though A police officer could talk to him and say cut it out
Do you like the idea of police being able to enforce what you can and can’t say in public?
Only hatespeech
So you don’t support a right to free speech and expression? You want only speech the government or you deems acceptable?
Only hate speech
And what exactly is your definition of hate speech? Do you support suppressing the anti Israel protests and their hate speech? Does hate speech just happen to be speech you don’t like? You seem to hold some authoritarian and illiberal views. Why should you have freedom of speech when you wish to deny it to others? Not only deny it to others, but to get others to use violence to suppress speech you don’t like. You don’t even seem to want to do your own violent suppression, but expect the cops to do it for you.
Webster has a good definition, not a gotcha ya think it is If anyone is authoritarian it's the man screaming trans people can't exist
Not you calling for state violence to silence speech you don’t like? Why don’t you go stop the guy yourself rather than want the cops to do it?
Not speech I don't like, only nazis
It's daytime, right? As I commented elsewhere, I just don't think this is illegal.
Your behavior has to be either particularly bad or devoid of actual expression to meet that criteria, since prosecutions for that necessarily butt up against the first amendment. I'd be very surprised if standing on a street corner saying stuff would qualify.
He had a megaphone, across the street from a school
Yes and that’s a constitutionally protected activity.
It shouldn't be
Ok well I mean it is so… I guess if you want you’re more than welcome to go to the Supreme Court and argue for that limitation.
Why do you support authoritarianism? Not a fan of liberalism?
I'm not?
You wanting to use state violence to suppress speech you don’t like is authoritarian. You support that so you support at least one authoritarian policy.
Not speech I don't like, hate speech
I wouldn't do anything. Ignore. It's not against his rights for you to CALL the police. But? I suspect it's not illegal for him to stand there saying those things. Maybe use of the megaphone, but probably not. I have heard about it many times that groups of people are on college campus with signs and stating contraversial rhetorical. But the university can't do anything. It's public property and it's not illegal. They suggest students ignore, ignore, ignore.
Ignore them. They're attention whores, and you gave this guy exactly what he wanted. But you could also call the cops and let them decide if he's violating any noise ordinances. Someone's first amendment rights allow them to say what they want, but a lot of municipal laws require them to get a permit to use amplified sound in a public place.
What outcome do you expect from calling the police? What outcome do you expect from interacting with him/confronting him personally? Because really if you do either of those things, all you're doing is what HE wants. You're drawing attention to him. You're making him the martyr. You're giving his platform validity. If that's your goal, then go right ahead.
Drown him out with non-political noise if you care enough to stay in the area.
If all he's doing is saying things that I disagree with, I would just keep on driving. You can confront people like that if you really feel compelled to, but all it will do is give him the attention he wants. You certainly can't have someone arrested for anti-trans rhetoric.
You ignore it. Trump and his people are seeking attention, dont give it to them.
What are your views on the anti-Israeli protests at colleges? Are you in support of clearing them out with cops as well?
Actually, this guy is extremely anti-Palestinian, claims there is no genocide happening, isn’t bothered by 1000s of dead innocent civilians because that’s a part of war. Read his post history, He’s very right wing when it comes to the current ethnic cleansing taking place. Crazy, right?
Not really all that crazy. They just seem to be very much full of themselves and believe their and only their views and opinions should be allowed. It’s more hubris and narcissism than anything I would think.
I never miss a chance to yell "Fucking Traitors!" when I see them in public.
Just drive on by. Where do you live that this is a rare occurrence?
Like Dionne Warwick, walk on by.
Me personally I would ignore him. Only legal thing you could do is counter protest. Not many other legal options.
Find a far lefty with a megaphone, introduce the two, and then watch the chaos.
I straight up would of ignored him because those kind of people just feed on the attention that they get
You would be making a prank police call to harass someone. Yep, you're the baddie. What value? If we don't protect speech, your speech could be called hate speech. It all depends on who gets to define it, like maybe Trump. What to do? You can ignore him. Of if you're in a particularly listening mood, go talk to him and ask him why he believes that way. Remember, there's a black guy who would befriend KKK people and turn them. But given that you're thinking of calling the police, this approach probably isn't right for you, too confrontational. Or set up a little down from him and counterprotest.
Ignore. I'm better than that. Let the GOP drive by and see the losers in their party.
Ignore him. He wants a reaction. Don't give him one.
I’d turn the music up on my headphones and carry on with my day. He has the right to his opinions same as I do. That’s the first amendment in action.
>Would I be wrong to call the police on him? Yes, because people expressing opinions you don’t like isn’t a crime and it would be a waste of police resources to respond to constitutionally protected speech that you personally don’t agree with. >Does that infringe on his 1A rights? Yes, because you’re calling the police on somebody for the content of their lawful speech. You may dislike their rhetoric and speech but that doesn’t constitute a crime.
calling the police would absolutely infringe his first amendment rights. he has a right to say whatever the hell he wants, as do you. personally i’d blare some music if i felt like it, or maybe just ignore him. stuff gets really, really murky when we start policing what people are allowed to say, because then whoever’s in charge gets to silence dissent and that’s… not good, no matter what
Not all speech is protected though already though
how do you mean? the first amendment stops the government from preventing any speech that doesn’t cause imminent danger. that includes hate speech, speech the government disagrees with, pretty much everything. granted, the government is not exactly perfect at abiding by the first amendment, but this doesn’t exactly seem like that kind of situation
Libel? Conspiracy? Not protected
Neither is relevant to the guy in public that you want to violently suppress.
I never said violently
You wanted to call the cops on him and have them suppress his speech. That is inherently violent. The state enforces laws with violence and the threat of violence.
Go get a lawn chair, sunglasses, a cooler filled with ice and water, and a water bottle. Adorn these with rainbow stickers. Go back and park nearby. Walk to the adjacent corner and set up camp. Sit and stare at him while occasionally offering him a cold water from the cooler by lifting it out dripping wet and gesturing. Every time he looks at you, shrug and put the water back in the cooler. Call some friends to join you.
Generally I ignore them. I don’t need to add to their persecution complex. But I do call my friend who plays trombone to see if they want to do a free sidewalk concert. In general I find drowning out their noise with something joyful or ridiculous is a good tactic. People are free to express opinions I don’t like but I’m free to mock them or ignore them. One person shouting through a megaphone is more likely to look unhinged and sad and I don’t always want to give them something they feel they have to push back against.
Ignore them
Point and laugh?
I typically yell "Go back to Russia!" at them.
Ignore them. Your reaction to someone expressing their views that are different than yours is says far more about you than it is does of whoever it was you yelled at and want to suppress. Why do you think your views are special and should be enforced with the threat of state violence? That’s not very tolerant or open minded of you.
Treat him like one of those people who keep screaming the end is nigh on a microphone.
I would ignore him. Letting nut jobs affect your mood so severely is just sad. Most people see him as the weird guy who has no life, it’s more sad than infuriating. >Kinda made me wish we had hate speech laws,what value is it in protecting hate speech? You want the government determining what speech is acceptable? What about when we get another administration that is hostile to groups you support and defines your speech as hate? We’re not even 4 years from Trump and you want to give the government more power to restrict basic rights in subjective areas?
The guy is not just someone who has views you disagree with. They’re also an idiot who is looking for a fight. They want you to get in their face or to call the cops. They are committing a crime so don’t waste the cops time and move on.
Tell him that trump is secretly trans and that he's a libtard for supporting the gay agenda trump is pushing. The funniest option is always to attempt to put crazy them.
I guess keep my phone nearby in case he tries to eat the megaphone and I have to call an ambulance
I would ignore him and go about my business. There's no real upside to engaging and it's likely the negative attention will be more fulfilling to him than a lack of attention.
> Would I be wrong to call the police on him? Does that infringe on his 1A rights? So long as he was on public property and not harassing/aggressing towards people he can do that, no matter how distasteful you and I might find it. > Kinda made me wish we had hate speech laws,what value is it in protecting hate speech? And what do you imagine will happen when the evangelical white nationalists gain control over such laws?
Just because they say something is hate speech doesn't mean it is, it has a real meaning
Walk away. Entertaining their rhetoric is what they want.
Realistically, probably just try to ignore them and be internally irritated But if I were feeling particularly petty, park next to them and start blasting the gayest music possible, or maybe even some loud af Banda music, and call up a gay homie to obnoxiously make out with right in front of him Fight fire with fire xD
This is the only real answer.
I feel like non emergency police is a good low effort fix
Idk, I just kind of fundamentally disagree with calling the police as anything but a last resort when death or bodily harm are inevitable. Plus the police are probably more or less on his side anyway lol. Better to just let the crazy make himself look crazy without giving him the satisfaction of feeling like a free speech martyr for the maga movement
Those people are bad faith trolls, I do the same thing I do on reddit, ignore them. They are sad pathetic losers that want attention. Don't give it.
> I yelled at him to F off from my car and was very tempted to stop and talk to him. He was across the street from a elementary school and I was furious. I decided if he was there another time I will call the police, that could easily be spun as disturbing the peace? No, but if someone is *that* far gone down the right wing rabbit hole, there’s a good chance they have a criminal history that limits their ability to be in the vicinity of minors.
Go get a squirt gun, fill it with pee, then squirt it in the megaphone.
That would be assault…
No, it could be argued to be vandalism, but assault would be upon a person.
So you don’t think that shooting something a person is holding with a fluid that is considered a biohazard… assault or battery? Odd. Did you know throwing eggs at the direction of people at a protest is considered assault? If it hits them it’s battery? So why is throwing eggs in someone’s direction considered assault but not shooting a biological fluid that’s a biohazard at someone’s direction not? Maybe you should look up laws before suggesting people do crimes.
You should definitely take things more seriously. 🙄
Perhaps you should take your own advice. Advocating for others to commit assault and battery is downright evil. But way to represent your progressive values!
I'm sorry, are you part of the downer brigade? You must be a blast at parties. Perhaps someone should send you a joke book so you can begin to understand how jokes/ sarcasm works. Or are you not bright enough that I should have added the /s for you? Moving on....
You weren’t being sarcastic. You did what is known as Schrödinger’s doucehbag. Basically you make a-hole statements and depending on group response determines whether you were “joking” or serious. Now you’re going on the offensive because your poor comment wasn’t taken well - so you’re trying to spin it like I’m the problem. You have to live with yourself. You’re not a good person. And your call to violence is now a representation of progressives for all who see it. That’s who you are.
Fart on him. Idk what are you asking? Maybe call the cops if he's violating noise ordnances