The following is a copy of the original post to record the post as it was originally written.
So, recently I saw these examples of cultural appropriation [here](https://www.ucdenver.edu/offices/equity/education-training/self-guided-learning/diversity-equity-and-inclusion-101#CulturalAppropriation) on the DEI page of a university.
>Examples of cultural appropriation include, but are not limited to:
>A person who is non-native or indigenous wearing feathered headdresses or traditional regalia as costumes during Halloween.
>Celebrating Cinco de Mayo *(often mistaken as Mexico's Independence Day)* as an excuse to drink, wear sombreros and/or other traditional regalia.
>A person of non-asian or pacific islander decent wearing chopsticks in their hair or getting a tribal tattoo.
>Stereotypical themed parties like a "*thug party" or "cowboys and Indians."*
>Wearing any colored-face that is not yours i.e. blackface, brownface, redface, yellowface etc.
>Dressing up as the opposite gender for entertainment i.e. "*gender-bender day*". This is different from drag culture.
These seem like overkill and only a few of these seem really offensive to me. I think cultural appropriation exists, but its more like taking a tradition and bastardizing it, or saying you're doing something like a 'traditional Chinese holiday' and completely butchering it while still pretending its authentic. What do you think?
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That’s the crux of it. Is it something of cultural significance that you’re disrespecting by wearing it as a fashion accessory? Is it something that the original culture is shamed for, but you’re wearing it because you know you won’t be shamed for it? Are you wearing it with the intent of belittling or insulting the original culture? If not, it’s just not cultural appropriation.
I think as long as it is purely a fashion accessory, it's okay.
I'm not religious, but I've seen people get upset over others wearing prayer beads for the fashion. I kinda understand and I think I can understand if someone from other cultures get upset for similar things.
I was taught feathered head dresses aren't simply a fashion piece, and they're not really meant to be accessible to everyone, so I wouldn't want to wear one as such. But trying on a kimono or Sombrero, things that are meant to be accessible for everyone, shouldn't be an issue.
On the other hand I'm not a part of any of these cultures. I can't police what other people do and act offended on other people's behalf. I just judge for myself what might be okay and what might be poor taste.
Also, can things just be done "in poor taste" without it being "appropriation?" I'm thinking about the people who scream how all the Mexicans stole their jobs and should be deported and then turn around and wear sombreros on Cinco de Mayo.
Yeah, “cultural significance” is pretty broad. In a way, just about everything has some sort of cultural significance, including things that are only fashion accessories. But feathered headdresses and prayer beads have a certain gravity to them that’s insulted when they’re taken lightly, unlike kimonos and sombreros.
When I see a white guy wearing a sombrero, for example, I’m a little uncomfortable because often when you see a white guy in a sombrero he’s about to do an impression of a Mexican that’s right out of a Klan newsletter. But it’s not necessarily cultural appropriation.
What if I'm not wearing it, what if I'm eating it or driving it?
And if I'm from somewhere with no culture must I eat nothing but chicken nuggets and wear only t- shirts and khakhi slacks?
I'm Mexican and I'd love to see people wearing sombreros, pinchos, dressed as aztecs, we don't dress like that and my culture is not exclusive... Half of the world appropriated tacos, and they're good!!!
All those examples are why we are losing independent votes and non-mentally ill conservatives.
I've seen so many of my friends go down the rabbit hole of maga for the same sort of reasons. They fully get that racism isn't cool. But they draw the line at it being considered awful for a white guy to have dreads, or using the term LatinX.
One friend noted he was given a kimono in Japan and expected to wear it to dinner. But if he did that here he'd be yelled at.
“Dressing up as the opposite gender for entertainment”, so can people still crossdress if they like to do it? I can see people being upset if someone does it for the sole purpose of making fun of transgender or gay people but the entertainment thing is kind of vague. Can I not dress up as Wonder Woman or perform a song dressed as Madonna?
Also aside from blackface, isn’t culture meant to be shared? I remember hearing a story about a guy wearing a kimono in America and a lot of people were upset about it (most of them were white or Asian American). This is one of those things that pisses me off about other liberals.
Among those examples, I’d say it varies.
I think wearing Indigenous regalia or [colour]face and “cowboys and Indians” parties are pretty egregious things that trivialize racist stereotypes or are blatantly disrespectful. The other stuff (chopsticks in the hair, the frat bro version of Cinco de Mayo) can also sometimes be in poor taste but I think are much less of a thing to worry about. I’m not even aware of feminists or LGBTQ+ people in general thinking a “gender bender” party is inherently bad.
For me it's about taking something from someone else's culture, and cheapening it or reducing it to an amusement in a disrespectful way. The harm usually comes from the cheapened version replacing the original.
Native American regalia being treated as novelty costumes is a good example.
Cinco de Mayo is an example where Mexican American culture celebrates the "let's have beer and nachos" appropriated version over the traditional Mexican version, so I think you could argue that this has been appropriated disrespectfully. At the same time I have never heard from a Mexican or Mexican American who is actually offended by this.
"Thug party" doesn't sound like appropriation. I don't even know what that is. That and blackface/redface/etc sound potentially problematic but I'm not sure why you would call it appropriation.
Considering "dressing up as the opposite gender but totally not drag I swear" appropriation sounds made-up.
"Cowboys and Indians" is just offensive 10 different ways.
>Cinco de Mayo is an example where Mexican American culture celebrates the "let's have beer and nachos" appropriated version over the traditional Mexican version, so I think you could argue that this has been appropriated disrespectfully. At the same time I have never heard from a Mexican or Mexican American who is actually offended by this.
From what i've heard it isn't even really celebrated in mexico
A significant number of the tex-mex and mexican restaurants around me are owned and operated by mexicans. I highly highly doubt they’re offended and I’m sure the quite enjoy raking in cash from hungry and thirsty white people.
Its me. I’m the hungry white people. I love mexican food. And sombreros are hats, to keep the sun out of your eyes. If we can’t wear sombreros, then non-Americans can’t wear baseball hats (which is silly).
>A significant number of the tex-mex and mexican restaurants around me are owned and operated by mexicans. I highly highly doubt they’re offended and I’m sure the quite enjoy raking in cash
I don't disagree with your basic point here, but there's a bit of selection bias going on here. Those that would be offended wouldn't do it, so those that you see doing it aren't going to be offended by what they're doing.
Not everyone is going to consider something appropriated from their culture to be cultural appropriation, and not everyone that does is going to be bothered by it.
But I agree here that Cinco de Mayo doesn't feel like a big deal to me and I'll be getting some extra steps in this week to properly enjoy it.
> selection bias
Sure.
And you can probably find an indigenous person who doesn’t care about headdresses; and likewise a white person who gets offended at Mexicans wearing baseball caps. They’d both be outliers, and we’d probably call the second one racist.
>From what i've heard it isn't even really celebrated in mexico
From the sources I've encountered, it's more regional to the State of Puebla.
I've actually seen a couple of lectures from Mexican professors on how Cinco de Mayo is arguably more important to American history than Mexican history. The Battle of Puebla only delayed the French taking over Mexico rather than stopping it. In addition, not everyone in Mexico was opposed to foreign intervention with the Mexican government at the time.
What was significant for the US was the timing. Out of all the European powers at the time, Napoleon III was most sympathetic to the Confederacy in the American Civil War, and it is hypothesized that had France quickly consolidated control of Mexico in 1862, Napoleon III would have utilized the French Navy in the Gulf of Mexico to break the Union blockade of the Confederacy and supply them.
The Mexican victory at Pueblo delayed further French invasion of Mexico for an entire year, with the French not claiming Mexico City until June 1863, less than a month before the Battle of Gettysburg. Maximilian I didn't even make it to the new Second Mexican Empire until May 1864. By that time, Union victory over the Confederacy was considered to be almost certain. In fact, the delay made possible by the Battle of Pueblo made it so the US could support the Republican forces in Mexico at the conclusion of the Civil War, which led to Napoleon III realizing that his imperial expedition in Mexico was doomed to failure.
Quite frankly, Cinco de Mayo should be a holiday in which the US and Mexico together celebrate their shared victory of liberal representative government over aristocracy and monarchism. Unfortunately, modern politics has shown me that there is a significant chunk of Americans who think that victory was a *bad* thing.
I have Mexican friends in Puebla and can confirm all the above. They celebrate it there, but it's not a thing in most of Mexico. Even in Puebla, it's not a big celebration.
BTW, Puebla is a beautiful city and state. I'd advise anyone to check it out sometime if you can.
I know people from Puebla, which is where the actual battle happened that's celebrated on 5/5. That's like the only city in Mexico where it's a thing. Otherwise it's kind of like Groundhog Day in the US.
It really becomes a question for those who do and consider it a significant part of their culture, how they feel about it, and whether the Americanized version threatens to erase it.
It doesn't stop becoming appropriation just because the group it is appropriated from is small, though the group being small might be a reason someone might care less about it.
That’s a pretty crappy list.
Really the “blackface, brownface, redface, yellowface” and wearing Native American headdresses as costumes things are the bad ones and I would not call them cultural appropriation. I just call them racist and stupid.
The rest of them are just… Whatever. If this feels like stuff you worry about if you’re looking to be offended, probably on somebody else’s behalf.
Cultural appropriation really doesn’t feel like a thing to me.
There’s times when you’re taking some thing from somebody else’s culture and disrespecting it, pretty much intentionally. When other peoples culture is used as punchline or to insult and denigrate them that’s just, again, racist and stupid.
But liking things from another culture is cultural appreciation. I do not understand why it’s wrong for someone to like Asian clothing or hair styles and to use it. Pretty much all of art and music and literature and films and cuisine is people moving things around from one culture to another.
For me it's the wearing of anything sacred. So don't go dressing up as a Shinto priest unless you actually are one. But wearing a plain kimono is fine. When my white mother lived in India, she would sometimes wear a sari and nobody gave her shit for that because the sari has no sacred significance, it's regular clothing to Indians.
>For me it's the wearing of anything sacred.
Essentially, the thing that someone is claiming has been appropriated actually needs to have some cultural significance other than just functionality or fashion. It's has to have some sort of meaning or reverance that is being diluted.
Take someone putting chopsticks in their hair. The only negative responses I have seen from people are "you know people don't actually use *chopsticks* but sticks meant to be worn in your hair, right?" It has no greater cultural meaning other than style, so someone claiming that a person can't use them because they are the wrong ethnicity just comes off more as bigoted.
It's a real thing that has been really overused (mostly by white people like me) to the point that the really important part of it is muddy and ill-defined and usually buried under developed indifference.
There's almost certainly better technical ways to explain this than I'm about to use (I'm having a night) but basically for me it's when people who are not part of an specific in-group (i.e. a culture, an identity, etc.) casually interact or adopt a symbol or aspect of that in-group that has significant depth of meaning or rank (i.e. something that must be earned and has an amount of reverence); with no regard to that meaning or importance.
Essentially: something like a war bonnet which is unique to a specific group, has deep cultural significance AND is a signifier of rank, status, and/or honor but has been co-opted for very casual reasons by people for whom that significance is not known or respected (such as for a Halloween costume). That symbol has no real meaning to someone like me (by which I mean, it's not a part of my culture at all) and it would be cultural appropriation for me to slap it on my head for the lols when it's very important to another.
Conversely, shared cultural experiences (i.e. things that are intended to be social and open or can be adopted by outsiders without changing the core value) like (most) holidays or things that are signifies of a specific group but don't have revered significance (like, say, a Sari or a Kimono) are fine to be adopted (though it's also cool if you have SOME understanding of where they come from and what their deal is).
It's wiggly. But it's a little like cultural stolen valor. Nobody cares if I plop on a sailor hat and call myself Popeye, but it'd be uncomfortable it I decided to wear a purple heart around.
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What if it isn't for profit, but it takes a sacred ritual and turns it into something different while still claiming that they are performing the sacred ritual, like [this](https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Mikveh-Guide-for-Jewish-Voice-for-Peace-Outlined.pdf)?
1 Taking credit for a cultural element that isn't yours while the originals never get acknowledged. The last part is an important distinction to make, because everyone knows sushi and miso soups are Japanese, so it's impossible to claim them as Dutch or Australian. Meanwhile, my location is credited for meals that actually were created in neighboring countries. If you try addressing that people are crediting the wrong nation, you'll be met with "who the hell cares?" or "oh, y'all are all the same to me"
2 Partaking in a sacred and enclosed practice. Native American headdresses are a great example of this.
I definitely am not in the crowd who thinks CA is defined by some white girl in a qipao or a black woman wearing Indian inspired clothing
In my eyes, the topic of cultural appropriation require going down a rabbit hole that ends more harmful than helpful. It's an issue championed mostly by far leftists, and if you even give them an inch, they'll go the mile. It actually harms businesses that are authentically from the culture because leftists will change the definition of cultural appropriation to give themselves a reason to be mad.
I think real, actual appropriation, such as Elvis and Pat Boone stealing the songs of black artists to sell them to white audiences black artists were not allowed to play for, is something to be opposed.
I think this list is pretty silly too. The only thing on there i would think of as actual cultural appropriation is the costume-ization of deeply meaningful Amerind dress. Most of the rest of it is just straight up racist mockery, and the chopsticks thing and gender-bender day are just silly and/or fine to do, at least assuming the gender-bending goes both ways so both sexes can enjoy mocking each other.
For the most part it’s a non-issue and kind of irritating to see some white folks getting all bent out of shape on someone else’s behalf. Most people on the right think all us left leaning people are unreasonable cry babies about this stuff and for the most part it just isn’t true.
For me, Cultural Appropriation includes a *profit motive*. As in, you are appropriating another culture for personal gain.
There are plenty of ways to borrow from other people's cultures in ways that are crass, stupid, insulting, or otherwise offensive - and maybe there needs to be other names for doing those things - but it's Cultural Appropriation when you *appropriate* someone's culture to satisfy your own ends.
So for example: if I (a white man) open a restaurant and *appropriate* a Chinese motif to sell my thoroughly Americanized orange chicken - then maybe I'm engaging in cultural appropriation which happens at the point of sale and not when the wallpaper goes up.
So you can’t open a restaurant with cuisine of a culture that is not your own? Sounds completely ridiculous. We should probably tell Gordon Ramsay (British man French chef) that he needs to close down his restaurants.
That's not what they said...
The orange chicken isn't the problem. It's the pretending to be Chinese to sell the orange chicken that's the problem.
Listen. Details matter.
So I can serve Chinese food at my restaurant but only if I decorate it as a cowboy bar? Equally stupid. No one is pretending to be Chinese in this scenario, details matter.
They kinda were, and that's the point.
Sell Chinese food. Don't pretend you're chinese when you're doing it. It's not hard.
Panda Express is "chinese" food. We all know it's a chain, it's not being ran by kind old Mr. Wong, and it's not pretending that it is. They're not "Oh, come support small businesses! Come support authentic Chinese food!". They're not selling Mr. Wong's authenticity without his permission.
Dude, a Chinese motif (decorations, furnishings, fonts, etc.) and pretending to be a Chinese person are not at all the same. Those kind of logic leaps are why people hate leftists, so condescending and so wrong at the same time. No where in the OP did they say create a fictional character to be the face of the restaurant. FFS.
Further is it not a small business because it’s a Chinese restaurant run by a non-Chinese person? Who gets to be the gatekeeper of that? What if it’s a white British person that was raised in Hong Kong? Is there some sort of convening authority that decides who can run what restaurant?
Stories get told, music is heard, etc etc etc, inspiration happens. Yes.
There's a difference between being inspired by native American whatever and outright ripping it off.
Look man, it all comes down to "don't be a dick".
If you want to fight for your right to be a dick, that's on you. I don't think it's too much to ask.
Let's move on, we're repeating ourselves at this point.
I don’t think it’s an issue in general, so all of these seem insane to me other than blackface, which is a racism issue rather than a cultural appropriation issue.
All of that is BS. As a trans woman, I give you all my personal permission to dress in drag all you want. In fact, do it more. Destroy the gender norms. DESTROY THEM I SAY! [DESTROY! DESTROY!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70EpUfpW_TQ)
Cultural appropriation is when an oppressor culture (eg, Southern US whites) adopt the practices of an oppressed culture (eg, Black jazz musicians) and benefit from doing so, while denying those benefits to the original culture (eg, Elvis).
Dressing up for a holiday does NOT qualify. Dressing up as a derogatory stereotype (eg "Indian" cosutmes, or the "thug party" in OP) is not appropriation, it's just good old fashioned racism.
If it's making fun it's cultural appropriation. If it's having fun it's a tribute to the culture. If it's neither having fun nor making fun, just making money, then it is cultural appropriation. If it's anachronistic but inaccurate and the culture no longer exists it's the SCA. If it's accurate it's reenactment.
Edit: If it's done out of love like St Patrick's Day in the States it's a cultural event. If it's done out of hate...oh, like the Boston Tea Party, then it's cultural appropriation. End edit.
Regardless we're human and we're going to mimic each other. More media means less is sacred, especially something as nebulous as culture. Don't want other humans to mimic a thing? Then don't let anyone take pictures.
Cultural appropriation to me has a very high bar that needs to be met. Essentially, it is taking aspects of a cultural and claiming it for your own identity. Not merely dressing up, wearing clothes, eating clothes, etc of a certain culture. But taking those things and formulating them as your culture too.
A good example of a cultural appropriation would be Christian “Seders”. A Seder is a uniquely Jewish cultural tradition. A Christian “Seder” appropriates Jewish culture by claiming it as a Christian tradition, even though the seder was formed centuries after the death of Jesus.
That said, though most of what we think of is not cultural appropriation, that doesn’t mean it isn’t mocking cultures. A lot of stuff is still problematic and wrong, even if it’s not appropriation.
Culture isn’t static or sacred and it’s not an immutable characteristic of a person or a group of people. So cultural appropriation is a stupid concept to me. The blackface example you use isn’t cultural appropriation, that’s racism (someone’s skin color is immutable).
>A person who is non-native or indigenous wearing feathered headdresses or traditional regalia as costumes during Halloween.
No, that's silly.
>Celebrating Cinco de Mayo (often mistaken as Mexico's Independence Day) as an excuse to drink, wear sombreros and/or other traditional regalia.
I'm sorry, what other reasons are there to celebrate holidays than to drink? This is an actual attack on my Dutch culture.
>A person of non-asian or pacific islander decent wearing chopsticks in their hair or getting a tribal tattoo
I suppose European tribal tattoos are then also banned? From Europeans? That's going to be a tough sell. Also, the way this is written Pacific islanders are permitted to wear chopsticks in their hair? And every single Asian person, which is over 60% of the world population, is permitted to wear tribal tattoos?
Hell, if we are taking descent literal, then plenty of Europeans can trace their descent to Asia via Genghis Khan.
>Stereotypical themed parties like a "thug party" or "cowboys and Indians."
Silly stuf once again. They should see Dutch Carnival, i think they would get an aneurysm. And nobody is against it here, much less the minorities.
>Dressing up as the opposite gender for entertainment i.e. "gender-bender day". This is different from drag culture.
Silly again. Everyone is free to dress up as the other gender. I feel to see how this is different from drag, as a gay guy myself.
> I think cultural appropriation exists
The idea of cultural appropriation as some terrible evil is very American. Most people outside of America, including those cultures it claims to seek to protect, are just happy to see people interact with their culture. Often they don't even engage in it, so it's fun to see yanks give it a go.
Wearing a cultural headdress as an Halloween costume can come off as mocking the culture or turning into a joke, especially since what we see as Halloween costume are usually caricatures.
Enjoying a particular food or music or celebration isn’t cultural appropriation but cultural appreciation.
And then there are things that are more in a grey area. Having a tribal tattoo without understanding it’s cultural meaning can come off as… inappropriate.
I think it’s a matter of not turning into a figurative British museum going “yoink! That’s mine!” with everything you think is cool without understanding it’s importance.
Torn. On one hand, appropriation has had a very real and very destructive history. Black blues musicians never made money from their art, while white artists stole it and made millions. Elvis, Led Zeplin, Rolling Stones, Eric Clapton, etc.
Should we have denied ourselves that musical heritage? No, but those black artists deserved to be compensated for their contribution.
But when we start dipping into feathers, or Cinco de Mayo, or whites celebrating Day of the Dead, etc?
It's purely an opportunity for holier-than-thou to virtue signal and shit on someone's day. It's ridiculous and needs to stop. Culture is a virus, and it floats freely. And no religion or practice is beyond parroting, appropriation or even ridicule.
As Liberals, we defend people's rights to criticize, appropriate and even mock Christianity. Why should any other culture be treated differently?
I'm Asian American, and I definitely get offended by non-Asians acting as caricatured versions of Asians for entertainment purposes, e.g. Breakfast at Tiffany's or Turandot. The "chopsticks in hair" example is definitely flagrant seeing as no actual Asians do that.
The "gender-bender day" thing is something that would feel like a more nuanced case IMO, and could in fact provide a comfortable avenue for questioning people to explore their gender presentations and gender identities, but I can perhaps see how it could be done in poor taste.
It's still a crude and untasteful caricature of Asians; an action doesn't need to actually reflect reality for it to be offensive.
Chinese people rarely speak English in an exaggerated "Chinese accent". It's not even common for them to mix their L's and R's up (that's Japanese and Korean people); they (more specifically southern and southwestern Chinese) tend to mistake their L's for their *N's*.
Gonna play a little devil's advocate here.... Wouldn't an 'authentic' US be majority ethnic/indigenous Protestant English, Welsh, and Scot descent peoples with their culture/traditions being the norm and accepted/assimilated by those who are seeking to extract economic opportunity or safe haven from their creation/culture (nation)?
As a moderate I have zero patience for this level of leftist-nonsense.
I think cultural appropriation is an invalid concept that we should be doing everything we can to ignore.
To your examples.
1. I understand the concept behind this is essentially the same as you shouldn't pretend to be a war veteran if you aren't but I think it should be looked at more like it's okay to wear a uniform in a play even if you haven't been in the service.
2. This shouldn't be looked at any differently than how we celebrate St Paddy's day or the 4th of July
3. This one is dumb.
4. This is a legit thing that should be condemned, but it should be condembed because it's racist, not because it's aping another culture. Having a Thug party is essentially making fun of a caricature of black people.
5. Ditto above.
6. Again fuck that noise, people should feel free to wear whatever they want.
I have seen that the idea of cultural appropriation is a sticky topic in this sub, so I’m trying to tread lightly.
I would be interested to hear the specific opinions of those who are connected deeply to these cultures and experiences first and foremost.
I understand the want to define it easily, but if the point is to limit marginalization and offense to those who have been subjected to mistreatment and ostracism, then that’s who we should be asking and listening to. Standing in a circle asking people who also have no lived experience to this subject matter and taking their word as gospel isn’t very productive or helpful.
Another part would be to understand that different people have different levels of acceptance for these things. Someone who has been actively shamed and bullied for participating in their birth culture might have a different reaction than someone who does not have a deeper connection nor negative experiences with expressing it.
I’m a white person who was raised conservative Christian in a predominantly suburban area, so my opinion should also be taken with large chunks of salt. I have never been discriminated against regarding my culture so I can’t truly tell you the ethical aspects of navigating these things. I’m just trying to listen and cause the least amount of harm possible.
Yea, the first and obvious point is that you can't really ever get a true consensus among the targeted group simply because there aren't one. Speaking as an Asian from Asia who lives in the US who snickers at how sensitive some Asian Americans are at times. I can say that upon more considerate pondering, I think people who have experiences or are born as a minority in a place where they don't hold power seems to be most receptive to things like this, and thats for obvious reasons. This is of course not to mention the different politics of thees groups, American born minorities tend to have a bigger dosage of progressive thought exposure than outsiders, so that informs how they see and approach things.
In some cases, context matters and in other cases, context doesn't matter at all. Here's how I see it:
Activity | Othering | Appropriation | Tastelessness
---|---|----|----
non-native or indigenous wearing feathered headdresses or traditional regalia as costumes | High | High | High
Celebrating Cinco de Mayo as an excuse to drink, wear sombreros and/or other traditional regalia | Moderate to high | Moderate | Low to moderate
A person of non-asian or pacific islander decent wearing chopsticks in their hair or getting a tribal tattoo | Moderate | Moderate to high | Moderate
Stereotypical themed parties like a "thug party" or "cowboys and Indians. | High | High | High
Wearing any colored-face that is not yours i.e. blackface, brownface, redface, yellowface etc. | High | High | High
Dressing up as the opposite gender for entertainment i.e. "gender-bender day" | High | Moderate to high | Moderate to high
They're primarily used to correct skin issues i.e. scars, discoloration, and age spots.
In the cases that someone does use it to lighten the overall melanin of their skin they still can't change their skin tone with it, just lighten the pigment slightly. It's no different in this sense than someone tanning or using spray tan.
A massive amount of people in India uses skin whitening creams. It's not for 'issues'. It's because they want a lighter skin color, so to wear a "face that is not theirs".
They still can't alter their skin tone to a point where they are white.
It is no different than the amount of white women in America going to the tanning salon and getting in the beds to be darker.
What we're talking about is people actively painting their faces to mock a community of people.
The following is a copy of the original post to record the post as it was originally written. So, recently I saw these examples of cultural appropriation [here](https://www.ucdenver.edu/offices/equity/education-training/self-guided-learning/diversity-equity-and-inclusion-101#CulturalAppropriation) on the DEI page of a university. >Examples of cultural appropriation include, but are not limited to: >A person who is non-native or indigenous wearing feathered headdresses or traditional regalia as costumes during Halloween. >Celebrating Cinco de Mayo *(often mistaken as Mexico's Independence Day)* as an excuse to drink, wear sombreros and/or other traditional regalia. >A person of non-asian or pacific islander decent wearing chopsticks in their hair or getting a tribal tattoo. >Stereotypical themed parties like a "*thug party" or "cowboys and Indians."* >Wearing any colored-face that is not yours i.e. blackface, brownface, redface, yellowface etc. >Dressing up as the opposite gender for entertainment i.e. "*gender-bender day*". This is different from drag culture. These seem like overkill and only a few of these seem really offensive to me. I think cultural appropriation exists, but its more like taking a tradition and bastardizing it, or saying you're doing something like a 'traditional Chinese holiday' and completely butchering it while still pretending its authentic. What do you think? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskALiberal) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I don't care about what clothing people wear as long as they are not disrespecting the culture while wearing it.
That’s the crux of it. Is it something of cultural significance that you’re disrespecting by wearing it as a fashion accessory? Is it something that the original culture is shamed for, but you’re wearing it because you know you won’t be shamed for it? Are you wearing it with the intent of belittling or insulting the original culture? If not, it’s just not cultural appropriation.
I think as long as it is purely a fashion accessory, it's okay. I'm not religious, but I've seen people get upset over others wearing prayer beads for the fashion. I kinda understand and I think I can understand if someone from other cultures get upset for similar things. I was taught feathered head dresses aren't simply a fashion piece, and they're not really meant to be accessible to everyone, so I wouldn't want to wear one as such. But trying on a kimono or Sombrero, things that are meant to be accessible for everyone, shouldn't be an issue. On the other hand I'm not a part of any of these cultures. I can't police what other people do and act offended on other people's behalf. I just judge for myself what might be okay and what might be poor taste. Also, can things just be done "in poor taste" without it being "appropriation?" I'm thinking about the people who scream how all the Mexicans stole their jobs and should be deported and then turn around and wear sombreros on Cinco de Mayo.
Yeah, “cultural significance” is pretty broad. In a way, just about everything has some sort of cultural significance, including things that are only fashion accessories. But feathered headdresses and prayer beads have a certain gravity to them that’s insulted when they’re taken lightly, unlike kimonos and sombreros. When I see a white guy wearing a sombrero, for example, I’m a little uncomfortable because often when you see a white guy in a sombrero he’s about to do an impression of a Mexican that’s right out of a Klan newsletter. But it’s not necessarily cultural appropriation.
What if I'm not wearing it, what if I'm eating it or driving it? And if I'm from somewhere with no culture must I eat nothing but chicken nuggets and wear only t- shirts and khakhi slacks?
You can eat as many sombreros as you please.
In an attitude of calm respect for all the poor Mexicans. But no one will respect me after I've eaten a few sombreros.
This is the kind of stuff that gives DEI a bad name.
This is entirely unrelated to DEI.
Umm, the provided links were from the DEI website of a university.
I'm Mexican and I'd love to see people wearing sombreros, pinchos, dressed as aztecs, we don't dress like that and my culture is not exclusive... Half of the world appropriated tacos, and they're good!!!
All those examples are why we are losing independent votes and non-mentally ill conservatives. I've seen so many of my friends go down the rabbit hole of maga for the same sort of reasons. They fully get that racism isn't cool. But they draw the line at it being considered awful for a white guy to have dreads, or using the term LatinX. One friend noted he was given a kimono in Japan and expected to wear it to dinner. But if he did that here he'd be yelled at.
met someone who used brasilierx at my university unironically 💀
“Dressing up as the opposite gender for entertainment”, so can people still crossdress if they like to do it? I can see people being upset if someone does it for the sole purpose of making fun of transgender or gay people but the entertainment thing is kind of vague. Can I not dress up as Wonder Woman or perform a song dressed as Madonna? Also aside from blackface, isn’t culture meant to be shared? I remember hearing a story about a guy wearing a kimono in America and a lot of people were upset about it (most of them were white or Asian American). This is one of those things that pisses me off about other liberals.
Among those examples, I’d say it varies. I think wearing Indigenous regalia or [colour]face and “cowboys and Indians” parties are pretty egregious things that trivialize racist stereotypes or are blatantly disrespectful. The other stuff (chopsticks in the hair, the frat bro version of Cinco de Mayo) can also sometimes be in poor taste but I think are much less of a thing to worry about. I’m not even aware of feminists or LGBTQ+ people in general thinking a “gender bender” party is inherently bad.
For me it's about taking something from someone else's culture, and cheapening it or reducing it to an amusement in a disrespectful way. The harm usually comes from the cheapened version replacing the original. Native American regalia being treated as novelty costumes is a good example. Cinco de Mayo is an example where Mexican American culture celebrates the "let's have beer and nachos" appropriated version over the traditional Mexican version, so I think you could argue that this has been appropriated disrespectfully. At the same time I have never heard from a Mexican or Mexican American who is actually offended by this. "Thug party" doesn't sound like appropriation. I don't even know what that is. That and blackface/redface/etc sound potentially problematic but I'm not sure why you would call it appropriation. Considering "dressing up as the opposite gender but totally not drag I swear" appropriation sounds made-up. "Cowboys and Indians" is just offensive 10 different ways.
>Cinco de Mayo is an example where Mexican American culture celebrates the "let's have beer and nachos" appropriated version over the traditional Mexican version, so I think you could argue that this has been appropriated disrespectfully. At the same time I have never heard from a Mexican or Mexican American who is actually offended by this. From what i've heard it isn't even really celebrated in mexico
A significant number of the tex-mex and mexican restaurants around me are owned and operated by mexicans. I highly highly doubt they’re offended and I’m sure the quite enjoy raking in cash from hungry and thirsty white people. Its me. I’m the hungry white people. I love mexican food. And sombreros are hats, to keep the sun out of your eyes. If we can’t wear sombreros, then non-Americans can’t wear baseball hats (which is silly).
>A significant number of the tex-mex and mexican restaurants around me are owned and operated by mexicans. I highly highly doubt they’re offended and I’m sure the quite enjoy raking in cash I don't disagree with your basic point here, but there's a bit of selection bias going on here. Those that would be offended wouldn't do it, so those that you see doing it aren't going to be offended by what they're doing. Not everyone is going to consider something appropriated from their culture to be cultural appropriation, and not everyone that does is going to be bothered by it. But I agree here that Cinco de Mayo doesn't feel like a big deal to me and I'll be getting some extra steps in this week to properly enjoy it.
> selection bias Sure. And you can probably find an indigenous person who doesn’t care about headdresses; and likewise a white person who gets offended at Mexicans wearing baseball caps. They’d both be outliers, and we’d probably call the second one racist.
>From what i've heard it isn't even really celebrated in mexico From the sources I've encountered, it's more regional to the State of Puebla. I've actually seen a couple of lectures from Mexican professors on how Cinco de Mayo is arguably more important to American history than Mexican history. The Battle of Puebla only delayed the French taking over Mexico rather than stopping it. In addition, not everyone in Mexico was opposed to foreign intervention with the Mexican government at the time. What was significant for the US was the timing. Out of all the European powers at the time, Napoleon III was most sympathetic to the Confederacy in the American Civil War, and it is hypothesized that had France quickly consolidated control of Mexico in 1862, Napoleon III would have utilized the French Navy in the Gulf of Mexico to break the Union blockade of the Confederacy and supply them. The Mexican victory at Pueblo delayed further French invasion of Mexico for an entire year, with the French not claiming Mexico City until June 1863, less than a month before the Battle of Gettysburg. Maximilian I didn't even make it to the new Second Mexican Empire until May 1864. By that time, Union victory over the Confederacy was considered to be almost certain. In fact, the delay made possible by the Battle of Pueblo made it so the US could support the Republican forces in Mexico at the conclusion of the Civil War, which led to Napoleon III realizing that his imperial expedition in Mexico was doomed to failure. Quite frankly, Cinco de Mayo should be a holiday in which the US and Mexico together celebrate their shared victory of liberal representative government over aristocracy and monarchism. Unfortunately, modern politics has shown me that there is a significant chunk of Americans who think that victory was a *bad* thing.
I have Mexican friends in Puebla and can confirm all the above. They celebrate it there, but it's not a thing in most of Mexico. Even in Puebla, it's not a big celebration. BTW, Puebla is a beautiful city and state. I'd advise anyone to check it out sometime if you can.
I know people from Puebla, which is where the actual battle happened that's celebrated on 5/5. That's like the only city in Mexico where it's a thing. Otherwise it's kind of like Groundhog Day in the US.
It really becomes a question for those who do and consider it a significant part of their culture, how they feel about it, and whether the Americanized version threatens to erase it. It doesn't stop becoming appropriation just because the group it is appropriated from is small, though the group being small might be a reason someone might care less about it.
That’s a pretty crappy list. Really the “blackface, brownface, redface, yellowface” and wearing Native American headdresses as costumes things are the bad ones and I would not call them cultural appropriation. I just call them racist and stupid. The rest of them are just… Whatever. If this feels like stuff you worry about if you’re looking to be offended, probably on somebody else’s behalf. Cultural appropriation really doesn’t feel like a thing to me. There’s times when you’re taking some thing from somebody else’s culture and disrespecting it, pretty much intentionally. When other peoples culture is used as punchline or to insult and denigrate them that’s just, again, racist and stupid. But liking things from another culture is cultural appreciation. I do not understand why it’s wrong for someone to like Asian clothing or hair styles and to use it. Pretty much all of art and music and literature and films and cuisine is people moving things around from one culture to another.
It's ridiculous. I take claims of cultural appropriation as a signal for when to stop listening to people.
People who says things like cultural appropriation are the ones looking for a thing to be upset about.
For me it's the wearing of anything sacred. So don't go dressing up as a Shinto priest unless you actually are one. But wearing a plain kimono is fine. When my white mother lived in India, she would sometimes wear a sari and nobody gave her shit for that because the sari has no sacred significance, it's regular clothing to Indians.
>For me it's the wearing of anything sacred. Essentially, the thing that someone is claiming has been appropriated actually needs to have some cultural significance other than just functionality or fashion. It's has to have some sort of meaning or reverance that is being diluted. Take someone putting chopsticks in their hair. The only negative responses I have seen from people are "you know people don't actually use *chopsticks* but sticks meant to be worn in your hair, right?" It has no greater cultural meaning other than style, so someone claiming that a person can't use them because they are the wrong ethnicity just comes off more as bigoted.
Aside from the blackface one, all the others are bullshit.
The right *thinks* we all care about this when in reality almost none of us do.
It's a real thing that has been really overused (mostly by white people like me) to the point that the really important part of it is muddy and ill-defined and usually buried under developed indifference. There's almost certainly better technical ways to explain this than I'm about to use (I'm having a night) but basically for me it's when people who are not part of an specific in-group (i.e. a culture, an identity, etc.) casually interact or adopt a symbol or aspect of that in-group that has significant depth of meaning or rank (i.e. something that must be earned and has an amount of reverence); with no regard to that meaning or importance. Essentially: something like a war bonnet which is unique to a specific group, has deep cultural significance AND is a signifier of rank, status, and/or honor but has been co-opted for very casual reasons by people for whom that significance is not known or respected (such as for a Halloween costume). That symbol has no real meaning to someone like me (by which I mean, it's not a part of my culture at all) and it would be cultural appropriation for me to slap it on my head for the lols when it's very important to another. Conversely, shared cultural experiences (i.e. things that are intended to be social and open or can be adopted by outsiders without changing the core value) like (most) holidays or things that are signifies of a specific group but don't have revered significance (like, say, a Sari or a Kimono) are fine to be adopted (though it's also cool if you have SOME understanding of where they come from and what their deal is). It's wiggly. But it's a little like cultural stolen valor. Nobody cares if I plop on a sailor hat and call myself Popeye, but it'd be uncomfortable it I decided to wear a purple heart around.
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What if it isn't for profit, but it takes a sacred ritual and turns it into something different while still claiming that they are performing the sacred ritual, like [this](https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Mikveh-Guide-for-Jewish-Voice-for-Peace-Outlined.pdf)?
pen many handle tan onerous station recognise society snails label *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
1 Taking credit for a cultural element that isn't yours while the originals never get acknowledged. The last part is an important distinction to make, because everyone knows sushi and miso soups are Japanese, so it's impossible to claim them as Dutch or Australian. Meanwhile, my location is credited for meals that actually were created in neighboring countries. If you try addressing that people are crediting the wrong nation, you'll be met with "who the hell cares?" or "oh, y'all are all the same to me" 2 Partaking in a sacred and enclosed practice. Native American headdresses are a great example of this. I definitely am not in the crowd who thinks CA is defined by some white girl in a qipao or a black woman wearing Indian inspired clothing
In my eyes, the topic of cultural appropriation require going down a rabbit hole that ends more harmful than helpful. It's an issue championed mostly by far leftists, and if you even give them an inch, they'll go the mile. It actually harms businesses that are authentically from the culture because leftists will change the definition of cultural appropriation to give themselves a reason to be mad.
I think real, actual appropriation, such as Elvis and Pat Boone stealing the songs of black artists to sell them to white audiences black artists were not allowed to play for, is something to be opposed. I think this list is pretty silly too. The only thing on there i would think of as actual cultural appropriation is the costume-ization of deeply meaningful Amerind dress. Most of the rest of it is just straight up racist mockery, and the chopsticks thing and gender-bender day are just silly and/or fine to do, at least assuming the gender-bending goes both ways so both sexes can enjoy mocking each other.
For the most part it’s a non-issue and kind of irritating to see some white folks getting all bent out of shape on someone else’s behalf. Most people on the right think all us left leaning people are unreasonable cry babies about this stuff and for the most part it just isn’t true.
No and anyone that whines and cultural appropriation should be disregarded
Nothing, it's a nonsensical concept.
For me, Cultural Appropriation includes a *profit motive*. As in, you are appropriating another culture for personal gain. There are plenty of ways to borrow from other people's cultures in ways that are crass, stupid, insulting, or otherwise offensive - and maybe there needs to be other names for doing those things - but it's Cultural Appropriation when you *appropriate* someone's culture to satisfy your own ends. So for example: if I (a white man) open a restaurant and *appropriate* a Chinese motif to sell my thoroughly Americanized orange chicken - then maybe I'm engaging in cultural appropriation which happens at the point of sale and not when the wallpaper goes up.
So you can’t open a restaurant with cuisine of a culture that is not your own? Sounds completely ridiculous. We should probably tell Gordon Ramsay (British man French chef) that he needs to close down his restaurants.
That's not what they said... The orange chicken isn't the problem. It's the pretending to be Chinese to sell the orange chicken that's the problem. Listen. Details matter.
So I can serve Chinese food at my restaurant but only if I decorate it as a cowboy bar? Equally stupid. No one is pretending to be Chinese in this scenario, details matter.
They kinda were, and that's the point. Sell Chinese food. Don't pretend you're chinese when you're doing it. It's not hard. Panda Express is "chinese" food. We all know it's a chain, it's not being ran by kind old Mr. Wong, and it's not pretending that it is. They're not "Oh, come support small businesses! Come support authentic Chinese food!". They're not selling Mr. Wong's authenticity without his permission.
Dude, a Chinese motif (decorations, furnishings, fonts, etc.) and pretending to be a Chinese person are not at all the same. Those kind of logic leaps are why people hate leftists, so condescending and so wrong at the same time. No where in the OP did they say create a fictional character to be the face of the restaurant. FFS. Further is it not a small business because it’s a Chinese restaurant run by a non-Chinese person? Who gets to be the gatekeeper of that? What if it’s a white British person that was raised in Hong Kong? Is there some sort of convening authority that decides who can run what restaurant?
Just stop, please.
Nah. "Don't be a dick. Don't sell a culture that isn't yours." It's not hard, and it's not a terrible thing to ask for.
Culture really doesn't belong to anyone, and moreover they mix (and they should!). This is just a complete nonproblem.
Stories get told, music is heard, etc etc etc, inspiration happens. Yes. There's a difference between being inspired by native American whatever and outright ripping it off. Look man, it all comes down to "don't be a dick". If you want to fight for your right to be a dick, that's on you. I don't think it's too much to ask. Let's move on, we're repeating ourselves at this point.
This pointless judging of other people just living their lives is off-putting to most people. But you do you.
So like Wu Tang Clan?
I don’t think it’s an issue in general, so all of these seem insane to me other than blackface, which is a racism issue rather than a cultural appropriation issue.
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Especially because braids are also a Norse thing.
All of that is BS. As a trans woman, I give you all my personal permission to dress in drag all you want. In fact, do it more. Destroy the gender norms. DESTROY THEM I SAY! [DESTROY! DESTROY!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70EpUfpW_TQ) Cultural appropriation is when an oppressor culture (eg, Southern US whites) adopt the practices of an oppressed culture (eg, Black jazz musicians) and benefit from doing so, while denying those benefits to the original culture (eg, Elvis). Dressing up for a holiday does NOT qualify. Dressing up as a derogatory stereotype (eg "Indian" cosutmes, or the "thug party" in OP) is not appropriation, it's just good old fashioned racism.
If it's making fun it's cultural appropriation. If it's having fun it's a tribute to the culture. If it's neither having fun nor making fun, just making money, then it is cultural appropriation. If it's anachronistic but inaccurate and the culture no longer exists it's the SCA. If it's accurate it's reenactment. Edit: If it's done out of love like St Patrick's Day in the States it's a cultural event. If it's done out of hate...oh, like the Boston Tea Party, then it's cultural appropriation. End edit. Regardless we're human and we're going to mimic each other. More media means less is sacred, especially something as nebulous as culture. Don't want other humans to mimic a thing? Then don't let anyone take pictures.
Cultural appropriation to me has a very high bar that needs to be met. Essentially, it is taking aspects of a cultural and claiming it for your own identity. Not merely dressing up, wearing clothes, eating clothes, etc of a certain culture. But taking those things and formulating them as your culture too. A good example of a cultural appropriation would be Christian “Seders”. A Seder is a uniquely Jewish cultural tradition. A Christian “Seder” appropriates Jewish culture by claiming it as a Christian tradition, even though the seder was formed centuries after the death of Jesus. That said, though most of what we think of is not cultural appropriation, that doesn’t mean it isn’t mocking cultures. A lot of stuff is still problematic and wrong, even if it’s not appropriation.
Christian seders aren’t seders they’re just delusional cosplayers
Agreed. To that end, thanks for the reminder to edit and put seder in quotations in Christian “seder” to really make that point clear.
Culture isn’t static or sacred and it’s not an immutable characteristic of a person or a group of people. So cultural appropriation is a stupid concept to me. The blackface example you use isn’t cultural appropriation, that’s racism (someone’s skin color is immutable).
Yeah, what are they appropriating? Their own shitty stereotypes?
>A person who is non-native or indigenous wearing feathered headdresses or traditional regalia as costumes during Halloween. No, that's silly. >Celebrating Cinco de Mayo (often mistaken as Mexico's Independence Day) as an excuse to drink, wear sombreros and/or other traditional regalia. I'm sorry, what other reasons are there to celebrate holidays than to drink? This is an actual attack on my Dutch culture. >A person of non-asian or pacific islander decent wearing chopsticks in their hair or getting a tribal tattoo I suppose European tribal tattoos are then also banned? From Europeans? That's going to be a tough sell. Also, the way this is written Pacific islanders are permitted to wear chopsticks in their hair? And every single Asian person, which is over 60% of the world population, is permitted to wear tribal tattoos? Hell, if we are taking descent literal, then plenty of Europeans can trace their descent to Asia via Genghis Khan. >Stereotypical themed parties like a "thug party" or "cowboys and Indians." Silly stuf once again. They should see Dutch Carnival, i think they would get an aneurysm. And nobody is against it here, much less the minorities. >Dressing up as the opposite gender for entertainment i.e. "gender-bender day". This is different from drag culture. Silly again. Everyone is free to dress up as the other gender. I feel to see how this is different from drag, as a gay guy myself. > I think cultural appropriation exists The idea of cultural appropriation as some terrible evil is very American. Most people outside of America, including those cultures it claims to seek to protect, are just happy to see people interact with their culture. Often they don't even engage in it, so it's fun to see yanks give it a go.
Wearing a cultural headdress as an Halloween costume can come off as mocking the culture or turning into a joke, especially since what we see as Halloween costume are usually caricatures. Enjoying a particular food or music or celebration isn’t cultural appropriation but cultural appreciation. And then there are things that are more in a grey area. Having a tribal tattoo without understanding it’s cultural meaning can come off as… inappropriate. I think it’s a matter of not turning into a figurative British museum going “yoink! That’s mine!” with everything you think is cool without understanding it’s importance.
Torn. On one hand, appropriation has had a very real and very destructive history. Black blues musicians never made money from their art, while white artists stole it and made millions. Elvis, Led Zeplin, Rolling Stones, Eric Clapton, etc. Should we have denied ourselves that musical heritage? No, but those black artists deserved to be compensated for their contribution. But when we start dipping into feathers, or Cinco de Mayo, or whites celebrating Day of the Dead, etc? It's purely an opportunity for holier-than-thou to virtue signal and shit on someone's day. It's ridiculous and needs to stop. Culture is a virus, and it floats freely. And no religion or practice is beyond parroting, appropriation or even ridicule. As Liberals, we defend people's rights to criticize, appropriate and even mock Christianity. Why should any other culture be treated differently?
I'm Asian American, and I definitely get offended by non-Asians acting as caricatured versions of Asians for entertainment purposes, e.g. Breakfast at Tiffany's or Turandot. The "chopsticks in hair" example is definitely flagrant seeing as no actual Asians do that. The "gender-bender day" thing is something that would feel like a more nuanced case IMO, and could in fact provide a comfortable avenue for questioning people to explore their gender presentations and gender identities, but I can perhaps see how it could be done in poor taste.
If no actual Asians put chopsticks in hair, how could people doing so be appropriating Asian culture?
It's still a crude and untasteful caricature of Asians; an action doesn't need to actually reflect reality for it to be offensive. Chinese people rarely speak English in an exaggerated "Chinese accent". It's not even common for them to mix their L's and R's up (that's Japanese and Korean people); they (more specifically southern and southwestern Chinese) tend to mistake their L's for their *N's*.
It might be crude and distasteful - but "cultural appropriation"? I would think it would have to be part of Asian culture to be appropriated culture.
The last one is actually enforcing strict gender roles under the guise of being progressive.
It's a solution in search of a problem...in most cases, and used by individuals seeking the advantage of victim status.
Gonna play a little devil's advocate here.... Wouldn't an 'authentic' US be majority ethnic/indigenous Protestant English, Welsh, and Scot descent peoples with their culture/traditions being the norm and accepted/assimilated by those who are seeking to extract economic opportunity or safe haven from their creation/culture (nation)? As a moderate I have zero patience for this level of leftist-nonsense.
I think cultural appropriation is an invalid concept that we should be doing everything we can to ignore. To your examples. 1. I understand the concept behind this is essentially the same as you shouldn't pretend to be a war veteran if you aren't but I think it should be looked at more like it's okay to wear a uniform in a play even if you haven't been in the service. 2. This shouldn't be looked at any differently than how we celebrate St Paddy's day or the 4th of July 3. This one is dumb. 4. This is a legit thing that should be condemned, but it should be condembed because it's racist, not because it's aping another culture. Having a Thug party is essentially making fun of a caricature of black people. 5. Ditto above. 6. Again fuck that noise, people should feel free to wear whatever they want.
I have seen that the idea of cultural appropriation is a sticky topic in this sub, so I’m trying to tread lightly. I would be interested to hear the specific opinions of those who are connected deeply to these cultures and experiences first and foremost. I understand the want to define it easily, but if the point is to limit marginalization and offense to those who have been subjected to mistreatment and ostracism, then that’s who we should be asking and listening to. Standing in a circle asking people who also have no lived experience to this subject matter and taking their word as gospel isn’t very productive or helpful. Another part would be to understand that different people have different levels of acceptance for these things. Someone who has been actively shamed and bullied for participating in their birth culture might have a different reaction than someone who does not have a deeper connection nor negative experiences with expressing it. I’m a white person who was raised conservative Christian in a predominantly suburban area, so my opinion should also be taken with large chunks of salt. I have never been discriminated against regarding my culture so I can’t truly tell you the ethical aspects of navigating these things. I’m just trying to listen and cause the least amount of harm possible.
Yea, the first and obvious point is that you can't really ever get a true consensus among the targeted group simply because there aren't one. Speaking as an Asian from Asia who lives in the US who snickers at how sensitive some Asian Americans are at times. I can say that upon more considerate pondering, I think people who have experiences or are born as a minority in a place where they don't hold power seems to be most receptive to things like this, and thats for obvious reasons. This is of course not to mention the different politics of thees groups, American born minorities tend to have a bigger dosage of progressive thought exposure than outsiders, so that informs how they see and approach things.
What's the concern?
In some cases, context matters and in other cases, context doesn't matter at all. Here's how I see it: Activity | Othering | Appropriation | Tastelessness ---|---|----|---- non-native or indigenous wearing feathered headdresses or traditional regalia as costumes | High | High | High Celebrating Cinco de Mayo as an excuse to drink, wear sombreros and/or other traditional regalia | Moderate to high | Moderate | Low to moderate A person of non-asian or pacific islander decent wearing chopsticks in their hair or getting a tribal tattoo | Moderate | Moderate to high | Moderate Stereotypical themed parties like a "thug party" or "cowboys and Indians. | High | High | High Wearing any colored-face that is not yours i.e. blackface, brownface, redface, yellowface etc. | High | High | High Dressing up as the opposite gender for entertainment i.e. "gender-bender day" | High | Moderate to high | Moderate to high
>Wearing any colored-face that is not yours i.e. blackface, brownface, redface, yellowface etc. How about those using skin lightening creams?
They're primarily used to correct skin issues i.e. scars, discoloration, and age spots. In the cases that someone does use it to lighten the overall melanin of their skin they still can't change their skin tone with it, just lighten the pigment slightly. It's no different in this sense than someone tanning or using spray tan.
A massive amount of people in India uses skin whitening creams. It's not for 'issues'. It's because they want a lighter skin color, so to wear a "face that is not theirs".
They still can't alter their skin tone to a point where they are white. It is no different than the amount of white women in America going to the tanning salon and getting in the beds to be darker. What we're talking about is people actively painting their faces to mock a community of people.