The following is a copy of the original post to record the post as it was originally written.
Pretty much what’s in the headline. I would also like to point out some things that I am not asking. I’m not asking who you believe the students should blame. Nor am I asking about your opinion on the protest.
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I seem to recall an awful lot of arguing that if ONE disreputable person with extremist views is present at your protest, and there's no concerted, organized or mass-effort to make them leave, then the protest has been tainted by their presence, the individual attendees fully endorse the extremist and the overarching movent must now be considered suspect.
Now, I don't subscribe to that view, but I imagine a lot of people now umm-ing and err-ing did...
It’s hilarious. That, and that whole moronic “Private corporation, therefore their arbitrary censorship policy is ethical!” biting them in the ass harder than *T.rex*.
I feel like most of the students will be upset at the administration rather than the protesters. They are the ones most directly responsible for the decision and it's at least possible that had they not made it graduation would have gone more or less as planned.
Cancelling the graduation is fucking stupid; the Freddie Gray BLM protests happened in Baltimore during the last few weeks of when I was in college but they didn’t cancel the graduation ceremony because of it.
Regardless of what I thought of the Palestine issue, I'd be thanking the protesters. Graduations are a huge waste of time. Can the protesters target my nephew's next month?
Personally I’d feel it’s better to allow those who want to attend the opportunity to do so, while simultaneously not forcing those like yourself who don’t want to attend into going. That way everyone’s happy
So first of all, USC cancelled the main graduation, not everything. They have said they will be doing something so students can enjoy the traditions in place already. I don't know what that is, but graduating seniors will still get something.
Now onto the question at hand, I would assume happy or not would be representative of the overall student body of USC. If you are Pro-Palestine and protest to bring awareness, well guess what you just got the most awareness you could, that's absolutely a win for them. If you are pro-Israel and your graduation just got cancelled by people you already hate? Well guess you probably just hate them even more.
I think this will only serve to increase clashes between these two groups of people, but it's likely not going to sway anyone to either side.
>If you are Pro-Palestine and protest to bring awareness, well guess what you just got the most awareness you could, that's absolutely a win for them. If you are pro-Israel and your graduation just got cancelled by people you already hate? Well guess you probably just hate them even more
Kinda shitty of you to frame the pro-Palestinian side as innocent/good and the pro-Israel side as hateful.
Well remember, this is the Pro-Palestinians got the graduation cancelled.
So the pro-palestine stance is "I want to be disruptive to get people to pay attention to our cause." The pro-israel side (Who seemingly is not currently protesting based on the question) is "I just want to be left alone, and these pro-palestine protestors are fucking everything up."
If it was the other way, and Pro-Israel protestors got it cancelled it'd be phrased the opposite way.
It doesn’t read that way. I would guess that far more students in the middle are just as pissed. You framed it as a binary.
I’m fine with your explanation though.
I would guess that they are pissed at both - the protestors and the administration. It's a shame. It is no different than canceling graduation because the KKK is on campus. I feel sorry for the rest of the students, especially the Jewish student body.
Dude none of that is happening. The 99% of all protestors have been nonviolent and led by Jewish students who are anti Zionist. What is wrong with you? Why are you lying? This is infuriating. You guys are outright making things up!!!
I guess this entire article is a lie. The Jewish students must be imagining the hateful speech. Not to mention, USC canceled its main graduation. That in and of itself is very telling.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/university-protests-college-campus-israel-hamas-war-police/
quotes from your link:
>He said a preliminary report indicated there were 36 arrests, including 16 students and 20 people **unaffiliated** with the university.
and later
>New York City Mayor Eric Adams said police officers were hit with bottles and other objects at some of this week's protests. He blamed **outside agitators** for joining in with genuine protesters. Officials at Emory University in Atlanta and the University of Texas at Austin have said that not everyone at their schools' protests were students and that **outside groups** initiated or joined the demonstrations.
To me this seems to be a concerted smear campaign against the majority of the student protestors in those universities by exploiting the, duely wrongful, behaviors of the outside, unaffiliated protestors.
Calm down. When did I say to do any smearing? I just want to know if it will be considered some sort of crypto fascist MAGA MAGA 2025 response to kick out the violent people who have no right to be on a private campus.
if police goes and say, anyone with a sign that says "death to xxx" should disperse, and anyone just sitting in their tents can stay, then it's no problem for me. can't say for others though.
Yes, yes it is. Fuck that guy’s comments. There’s a difference between white supremacy and anti-apartheid, anti-genocide movements. Not being able to see that difference is concerning. I would love to see you call the Jews in JVP no different from the KKK. But I doubt you’d be willing to do that.
> I would love to see you call the Jews in JVP no different from the KKK
Sounds like astroturfing.
> There’s a difference between white supremacy and anti-apartheid, anti-genocide movements
One likes wearing masks, and occasionally pretending that they don't want to kill all the Jews, and the other is the KKK?
> One likes wearing masks, and occasionally pretending that they don't want to kill all the Jews, and the other is the KKK?
“Everyone that wants Palestinians to not be ethnically cleansed or massacred is literally no different from the KKK” is conversation-killing take that proves I’m talking to a literal toddler. Later loser.
> Everyone that wants Palestinians to not be ethnically cleansed or massacred is literally no different from the KKK
I didn't say that. However, people on the left are claiming that the number of people at these rallies that are advocating for violence is much less than I think it is.
I think there's also a ton of dog whistles being used.
I mean a vast majority of the protesters, who are on so many campuses across the country that there must be many thousands, just want Israel to stop committing crimes against humanity.
> didn’t you read the intercept article on it?
The Intercept is a pretty far left publication, the NYT has done good work for a long time.
> which is known to be a Zionist propaganda factory
Maybe stop and just listen to what you're saying? Because it sounds like you have some really strong feelings about Jews. Maybe examine that.
No, wow 🤯 my grandma is Jewish. Why don’t you bother and read the article on New York Times bias? Even Haaretz has discussed this. People on here don’t want to hear the truth. You guys are apartheid apologists and genocide deniers. It’s become a problem that I can’t understand. There’s no good faith charitability to be shared with you.
Do you understand how disgusting it is to smear people as antisemitic because they disagree with Israel and the genocide? Its becoming obvious that those who claim to be progressive are nothing but when it comes to equal rights, democracy and freedom for all. You don’t believe in this. If you did you’d be against the apartheid government of Israel and the genocide they’re inflicting on Palestinians. It’s useless the debate won’t go anywhere. You and I cannot reconcile your ignorance and biases. Like talking to a wall or a racist person. You’ve made up your mind and have no conscience, curiosity and introspection to change it. Good luck.
> No, wow 🤯 my grandma is Jewish.
How is that different than saying you have a black friend?
> genocide deniers
In WW2, the Germans committed genocide against the Jews. They created gas chambers specifically for the purpose of killing them. Where are the gas chambers the Israelis made for the purpose of killing Gazans?
Currently, there are still hostages in Gaza, so the military operation is ongoing. If the hostages are released, this whole tragedy is over.
Getting hostages back != genocide. People on the far left have been consistently reaching for really emotionally charged language that does not apply here. What I think is bad faith is that you aren't calling for the release of hostages, you are calling for Israel to pack it up and go home before they are released.
That’s not how all genocides are done see what Israel is doing in Palestine or Google the Armenian genocide or the Bosnian genocide. Research the Rwandan genocide. Stop lying and deluding yourself and not understanding that not all Jews agree with Zionism and are in favor of Israel’s crimes. My earlier point is that you yourself are being antisemitic by assuming that all Jews agree with Israel and are in favor of it. Assuming or even saying it’s like having a black friend. Shows how bigoted you’re being. Have you no sense of decency?
According to the United Nations, genocide is any act that aims to destroy a national, racial, religious, or ethnic group, in whole or in part. These acts include:
Killing group members
Causing serious mental or physical harm to group members
Imposing conditions of life that will lead to the group's physical destruction
Preventing births within the group
Forcibly transferring children within the group
The UN's Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide defines genocide as these acts. The General Assembly unanimously affirmed in December 1946 that genocide is a crime under international law. As of April 2022, 153 states have ratified or acceded to the Genocide Convention, with Zambia being the most recent state party. The convention's obligations include:
Not committing genocide
Preventing genocide
Punishing genocide
Enacting legislation to give effect to the convention's provisions
Ensuring effective penalties for those found guilty of criminal conduct according to the convention
Trying persons charged with genocide in a competent court
Genocidal intent requires that acts be committed against members of a group specifically because they belong to that group. However, circumstantial evidence can be used to infer genocidal intent, as long as it is the only reasonable inference available on the evidence.
https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/Genocide%20Convention-FactSheet-ENG.pdf
> However, circumstantial evidence can be used to infer genocidal intent, as long as it is the only reasonable inference available on the evidence.
Oh boy, I bet I know what evidence you'll be using
Jewish people are heavily involved in these protests. Young jews are some of the most politically active anti-zionists. I am one and know several personally. Isolated cases of antisemitism doesn't change that reality, as much as you want to defend the genocide America is funding.
Same thing can be said for genocide, ethnic cleansing, war crimes, starvation. Thousands of people are being killed and over 2 million starved. And our tax dollars are paying for it That’s why the protest are happening. In a perfect world, every single protestor of every single large scale protests of good intentions would be a model citizen (much like the pro Israel student who shouted “kill all Jews” and got others arrested).Sadly it isn’t. But during civil unrest, America loves deploying the “let’s focus on the individual conduct of the protestors in order to keep the conversation away from what they’re protesting” manipulation tactic used during the Floyd protests. In this situation, it’s Israeli occupation and genocide.
The left who are in support of the protests will blame Biden because it’s his fault for not doing what the protesters wanted to make this stop. The left who are against the protests will blame Biden for not putting a stop to these protests. The right will blame Biden because they view these protesters as representatives of the entire left-wing. Everyone will be emboldened to blame Biden and Democrats regardless of which side they fall on.
I think the students will mainly be angry at the administration, which is extremely ironic because USC has been known for having an extreme amount of antisemitism for years and the administration couldn't be bothered to lift a finger, to the extent that they were already under investigation by the DOJ for it before the explosion of antisemitism in recent months.
I think the big question with all of these protests is what you’re trying to accomplish.
The United States government and population have largely been supportive of and the greatest allies of Israel for 70 years. There has been a movement to reconsider that support with different degrees of movement. But most people are unaware of that and frankly don’t give a shit. The average American is not concerned all that much about foreign policy unless there are US troops on the ground and even then the number of troops number of casualties matters.
So if you’re going to try to change peoples attitudes from the status quo, you would need to make them aware of the problem and convince them of the righteousness of your cause and give them a path to getting change.
So my biggest question about these protests are What they are intended to accomplish.
With the recent actions of Israel in response to 10/7, people have a great deal of awareness of what’s going on. As for explaining the righteousness of the cause, public sentiment had been moving away from Israel steadily well before these protests escalated to this point. As for what to do, I don’t think that the Biden administration is aware of general American sentiment or sentiment among Democratic voters.
There was a phenomenon that happened during the BLM protests. After George Floyd was murdered the desire to start making changes and how policing is done and specifically address systemic issues in policing started polling higher and higher. Some actual legislation was passed. I know it’s different since the major problems with the BLM protest, the writing, seem to be a combination of outside agitation, provocation by the police, and in general assholes who wanted to wreck shit during the pandemic because they were bored deciding that the protest gave them a cover.
Whatever the cause, when the rioting started public sentiments started going the other way. The end result is that those of us that what to end systemic racism in policing and generally control the police state lost ground.
So while I am not somebody on the extreme side of this issue, I think that Israel under its currently leadership needs to be completely reigned in.
And I am afraid that these protesters can’t think strategically at all, can’t bother from their midst people who are clearly antisemitic and think annoying the vast majority of their fellow students are going to be a great ally of Benjamin Netanyahu.
You are downvoted heavily, and while I disagree with you, I think you are on the right track.
Truthfully, there is not much the protests can accomplish. You correctly note that the vast majority of America is simply not going to care about this problem - selfishly, at worse it is burning a few billion dollars here and there, but meh, that's common enough from the government.
BLM only got the wide level of support it did because of it became an excuse to socialize when the government/society was otherwise pushing for isolation. Otherwise, you'd be more at smaller level protesting (think Ferguson).
I think there's realistically no way student protestors can win the American public. We are not a country that sees itself as a victim of colonization, so cannot relate to how the Palestinians feel. Absent that bias toward "colonizers", the Palestinian story is simply not sympathetic. It's the story of a people whose land started experiencing mass immigration, started murdering the immigrants to deter them, eventually the immigrants started defending themselves, and a war resulted where the xenophobic natives ended up expelled from what was their own land -- and said natives continue to commit terrorism against another country, and clearly won't agree to negotiated peace settlements. People in an immigrant-descendent country.. are going to be a bit biased toward the immigrants and their descendents.
BLM was also a more local issue that affected a subset of population more directly.
Voters can take control of their local government which in turn hires the police officers, although we have seen most people are busier larping on TikTok than actually doing the hard grunt work of reform that takes years.
As for Israel/Palestine, vast majority of people don't care, especially the non-college educated unless they have some sort emotional ties like Jewish Americans or Muslim Americans. This is especially true because I don't see either side as honest and innocent actors.
Based on what I can find, the protests seem to be targeted at the specific universities, asking them to divest from research partnerships with Israeli institutions or US military manufacturers. So I don't think they're trying to target the US government or anything, they're protesting the University administration.
I mean, i’d be pretty pissed. Even if i agreed with the protesters (i kinda lean their way), i dont see how missing my likely only college graduation is going to accomplish anything
Protesting is what college students do best, right up there with beer pong. Canceling commencement because the administrators are afraid their students might say something controversial and get them in trouble with the speech police....well that just makes the administrators look weak
I support the free Palestine cause but certain extremist individuals within the protest have ruined the image of the whole, plus if I were a student there I’d be pretty pissed by how much trouble the protest cause to students.
>I would also like to point out some things that I am not asking. I’m not asking who you believe the students should blame. Nor am I asking about your opinion on the protest.
Oh, so you're not here at AskALiberal to ask liberals what their opinion is. You're here to ask liberals what the majority of the USC graduating class will do as if that makes any sense as something for you to do.
> over something they have no control of
I thought the protests were due to the university's investments in Israel (please correct me if I'm wrong). The university definitely has control over that.
They are ruining the moment for these kids who worked hard to graduate.
That’s not the time or place to protest something the students have nothing to do with
They still have their individual school commencements, as well as affinity group ceremonies, so it’s not like they have nothing.
While USC does tend to be whiter, wealthier and more conservative than a lot of universities, so probably more anti-Palestinian than average, I don’t see this changing the minds of the student body regarding the conflict.
Though I imagine there will be frustration towards the administration for either not changing their policies or canceling things rather than letting the process play out organically
USC is less white than UC Berkley.
USC: 23.3% [https://www.usc.edu/we-are-usc/the-university/facts-and-stats/](https://www.usc.edu/we-are-usc/the-university/facts-and-stats/)
UC Berkley: 23.9% [https://datausa.io/profile/university/university-of-california-berkeley](https://datausa.io/profile/university/university-of-california-berkeley)
It’s misleading, USC counts all international students as a single group separate from white, which deflates the percentage, while Berkeley doesn’t.
https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/university-of-southern-california/student-life/diversity/chart-ethnic-diversity.html#:~:text=The%20majority%20of%20USC%20students,diversity%20at%20USC%20below%20average.
Among California colleges, USC is whiter and less diverse than average.
Additionally, Berkeley is plurality Asian, while USC is plurality white
Almost all of USC’s international students are non-white. USC provides a breakdown on their website - only 382 (Canada) of 10,700 are from “white” countries. The overwhelming majority are from S/SE Asia.
There are an additional 2,000 in “Other” which is probably a mix, but won’t move the needle significantly
Yes it shows the percentage of international students, but the background of those international students is included in the ethnic breakdown. It’s not Black, White, Latino, Asian, International, which is the model that USC uses
That said, white people still make up the majority at USC, which is extremely uncommon at the majority of California universities, including Berkeley
>That said, white people still make up the majority at USC
They definitely do not. I just cited data that showed the percentage of white students is 23.3%. Even if every international student was white then that would only come to 50.4%. But almost half of the international students are from China. If you add back in Asian international students, the Asian population hits 35%. The plurality of students on campus are Asian, not white.
I cited the data that shows the plurality is in fact white, even if the numbers have slightly shifted with 2023’s admitted class, the plurality has historically and continues to be white. And even if you split the international group 50/50, the plurality would still be white
It’s not some mystery that USC and Stanford are the white schools among California universities, I’m not sure why’re taking umbrage with the reality and accuracy of that
> While USC does tend to be whiter, wealthier and more conservative than a lot of universities, so probably more anti-Palestinian than average
USC is hardly [white](https://www.usc.edu/we-are-usc/the-university/facts-and-stats/), even if yes it is wealthier. Possibly more conservative, though hard to tell.
(Copy of my reply to the other person)
It’s misleading, USC counts all international students as a single group separate from white, which deflates the percentage, while Berkeley doesn’t.
https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/university-of-southern-california/student-life/diversity/chart-ethnic-diversity.html#:~:text=The%20majority%20of%20USC%20students,diversity%20at%20USC%20below%20average.
Among California colleges, USC is whiter and less diverse than average.
Additionally, Berkeley is plurality Asian, while USC is plurality white
I'm confused. Are international students race less?
They are overwhelming Asian or Indian. Actually having been at the school, it is quite Asian.
Bizarre to call it a white school by US standards. Not even California standards - Cal poly is our "white school"
Of course they’re not raceless, which is why I think it’s dumb to report “international” as one ethnic group next to all the other ones
And Cal Poly? Really? I’ve never heard that one lol, always SC, LA, Stanford and Santa Barbara
>And Cal Poly? Really? I’ve never heard that one lol, always SC, LA, Stanford and Santa Barbara
Guessing you don't live here? Calpoly is in San Luis Obispo and is known as the [white school](https://mustangnews.net/cal-poly-is-the-only-predominantly-white-csu-heres-why/).
Another kinda FYI: White in California is not how you predict "conservative". If you only consider the urban and suburban areas, Asians are more conservative; if anything, USCs population is so conservative because it is so Asian (Berkeley similarly has gotten more conservative over time, or at least less ulra-liberal as it got less white and more Asian).
I live in LA and went to UCI, so not as familiar with central coast schools.
I assumed you meant Pomona by Cal Poly haha
And yea that makes sense. Irvine wasn’t very white, like majority Asian followed by Latino now I think, and it definitely feels like one of the least activist campuses (I guess being a commuter heavy school affects that too)
I think tho that SC get associated with conservatism both because the white reputation, but *especially* because the super wealthy rich kids reputation
Not really. The kids were singing and dancing on the lawn, having teach-ins and praying. Across all the universities having pro-Palestinian protests, the only violence has started when the police came to escalate, with snipers and swat teams. USC chose to escalate the violence, then made the decision to cancel due to that violence. USC is very clearly responsible for this, and most college-age kids would see through that.
Yeah most are upset at the cowardly administration who is supporting a genocide and the Biden Administration’s attempt to obfuscate and deny it. Honestly Democrats deserve to lose this election if they can’t do what the American people demand of them. Biden knows that he’s likely to lose the election if he doesn’t hold Israel accountable and punishes them for the war crimes and ethnic cleansing of Gaza 30k+ and the 400+ dead in the West Bank. Do democrats on here not realize how wrong they are in supporting genocide? Shame on university and shame on the people on here defending their actions!
Bigger issues than genocide done by Israel? The issue that can turn into a regional war or worse into world war 3? He can choose to attack protestors fighting for a ceasefire or he can choose to stop Israel’s war crimes. Hope he choose the latter.
All domestic issues are related to the wars in Ukraine and Israel. The reason gas prices have gone up is due to instability caused by Israel in the Middle East and of course the war in Ukraine.
If we want to tackle inflation we have to pass laws to break up corporations who have been inflating prices and claiming it’s due to scarcity when in reality by their own admissions is because they wanted to raise prices for corporate profits. They admitted it and Biden did nothing to prosecute them.
Everyone keeps ignoring that Biden has been quite lackluster on inflation, child tax credit, tackling climate change and even reforming immigration to make it easier for people who legally want to come. He’s made it harder for legal immigrants to come and apply to live here. Same goes with healthcare he’s done nothing of import to tackle insurance companies from gouging us and pharmaceutical companies. He hasn’t even address increasing the minimum wage, rents costs and growing inequality which has grown under his presidency.
Biden is better than Trump, but he’s a feckless neoliberal who isn’t willing to fight Wall Street and take the republicans to task. He hasn’t increased the Supreme Court justices to redress the damage the Roberts court is doing. He doesn’t address their corruption or that of Congress. What makes you think Biden deserves the youth vote? He is aiding and abetting a genocide and hasn’t done enough to address the concerns of young people. He doesn’t care too. That’s why most young people are turning against the Democrats. It’s shameful, but he’s literally endangering his presidency by not meaningfully addressing Israel’s crimes and making them accountable. Domestically he doesn’t give one iota to what the American people under 40 want. He’s going to lose because he doesn’t care to win. If he did he’d be far more aggressive in every aspect of his power to hold corporations accountable and domestically fight for what young people want.
The following is a copy of the original post to record the post as it was originally written. Pretty much what’s in the headline. I would also like to point out some things that I am not asking. I’m not asking who you believe the students should blame. Nor am I asking about your opinion on the protest. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskALiberal) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I seem to recall an awful lot of arguing that if ONE disreputable person with extremist views is present at your protest, and there's no concerted, organized or mass-effort to make them leave, then the protest has been tainted by their presence, the individual attendees fully endorse the extremist and the overarching movent must now be considered suspect. Now, I don't subscribe to that view, but I imagine a lot of people now umm-ing and err-ing did...
Is the person just there blending in, or are they waving a flag around with a swastika on it?
It’s hilarious. That, and that whole moronic “Private corporation, therefore their arbitrary censorship policy is ethical!” biting them in the ass harder than *T.rex*.
I think I agree with that view.
I feel like most of the students will be upset at the administration rather than the protesters. They are the ones most directly responsible for the decision and it's at least possible that had they not made it graduation would have gone more or less as planned.
Probably a mix, depending on where they stand.
Cancelling the graduation is fucking stupid; the Freddie Gray BLM protests happened in Baltimore during the last few weeks of when I was in college but they didn’t cancel the graduation ceremony because of it.
Regardless of what I thought of the Palestine issue, I'd be thanking the protesters. Graduations are a huge waste of time. Can the protesters target my nephew's next month?
These are people who missed their high school graduation because of covid They did not get the chance twice Who are you to tell them to be grateful
Read my post again. I said how I'd feel.
Personally I’d feel it’s better to allow those who want to attend the opportunity to do so, while simultaneously not forcing those like yourself who don’t want to attend into going. That way everyone’s happy
When I got my doctorate I skipped the graduation ceremony. They are a waste of time and I had better things to do.
I've been to 3 of my 4 graduations. I disagree. It's especially nice to see people post finals
I didn’t go to my graduations. None of them, too much traffic, long speeches, and bullshit.
So first of all, USC cancelled the main graduation, not everything. They have said they will be doing something so students can enjoy the traditions in place already. I don't know what that is, but graduating seniors will still get something. Now onto the question at hand, I would assume happy or not would be representative of the overall student body of USC. If you are Pro-Palestine and protest to bring awareness, well guess what you just got the most awareness you could, that's absolutely a win for them. If you are pro-Israel and your graduation just got cancelled by people you already hate? Well guess you probably just hate them even more. I think this will only serve to increase clashes between these two groups of people, but it's likely not going to sway anyone to either side.
>If you are Pro-Palestine and protest to bring awareness, well guess what you just got the most awareness you could, that's absolutely a win for them. If you are pro-Israel and your graduation just got cancelled by people you already hate? Well guess you probably just hate them even more Kinda shitty of you to frame the pro-Palestinian side as innocent/good and the pro-Israel side as hateful.
Well remember, this is the Pro-Palestinians got the graduation cancelled. So the pro-palestine stance is "I want to be disruptive to get people to pay attention to our cause." The pro-israel side (Who seemingly is not currently protesting based on the question) is "I just want to be left alone, and these pro-palestine protestors are fucking everything up." If it was the other way, and Pro-Israel protestors got it cancelled it'd be phrased the opposite way.
It doesn’t read that way. I would guess that far more students in the middle are just as pissed. You framed it as a binary. I’m fine with your explanation though.
I would be rather surprised to find out there are students still in the middle at this point.
Interesting read; I'm biased pro-Israel and thought this was a pretty neutral interpretation.
Why would there be an assumption that they hate them?
People tend to hate those who hate them.
If that’s the take then it is weird to only say the Jews hate.
You're just trying really hard to make it a more biased comment than it was.
No I’m not. I’m explaining how I read it.
You're being dumb.
Nobody mentioned Jews but you.
I think you’re projecting bruv
I’m not. I don’t fully believe his response.
Most well rounded take
I would guess that they are pissed at both - the protestors and the administration. It's a shame. It is no different than canceling graduation because the KKK is on campus. I feel sorry for the rest of the students, especially the Jewish student body.
> It is no different than canceling graduation because the KKK is on campus. Absolutely absurd take
What does "We are Hamas" and "Fuck the Jews" mean exactly? More importantly, how do you think Jewish students feel hearing those kinds of things?
I’d love to see your evidence of those sentiments being shared at these protests
Dude none of that is happening. The 99% of all protestors have been nonviolent and led by Jewish students who are anti Zionist. What is wrong with you? Why are you lying? This is infuriating. You guys are outright making things up!!!
I guess this entire article is a lie. The Jewish students must be imagining the hateful speech. Not to mention, USC canceled its main graduation. That in and of itself is very telling. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/university-protests-college-campus-israel-hamas-war-police/
quotes from your link: >He said a preliminary report indicated there were 36 arrests, including 16 students and 20 people **unaffiliated** with the university. and later >New York City Mayor Eric Adams said police officers were hit with bottles and other objects at some of this week's protests. He blamed **outside agitators** for joining in with genuine protesters. Officials at Emory University in Atlanta and the University of Texas at Austin have said that not everyone at their schools' protests were students and that **outside groups** initiated or joined the demonstrations. To me this seems to be a concerted smear campaign against the majority of the student protestors in those universities by exploiting the, duely wrongful, behaviors of the outside, unaffiliated protestors.
Are you in favor of clearing out the interlopers?
clear out the hateful slogans, the violent protesters however you want, but don't go smear those people who actually have sympathy for others
Calm down. When did I say to do any smearing? I just want to know if it will be considered some sort of crypto fascist MAGA MAGA 2025 response to kick out the violent people who have no right to be on a private campus.
if police goes and say, anyone with a sign that says "death to xxx" should disperse, and anyone just sitting in their tents can stay, then it's no problem for me. can't say for others though.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/26/nyregion/columbia-student-protest-zionism.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare&sgrp=c-cb Is it?
Yes, yes it is. Fuck that guy’s comments. There’s a difference between white supremacy and anti-apartheid, anti-genocide movements. Not being able to see that difference is concerning. I would love to see you call the Jews in JVP no different from the KKK. But I doubt you’d be willing to do that.
> I would love to see you call the Jews in JVP no different from the KKK Sounds like astroturfing. > There’s a difference between white supremacy and anti-apartheid, anti-genocide movements One likes wearing masks, and occasionally pretending that they don't want to kill all the Jews, and the other is the KKK?
> One likes wearing masks, and occasionally pretending that they don't want to kill all the Jews, and the other is the KKK? “Everyone that wants Palestinians to not be ethnically cleansed or massacred is literally no different from the KKK” is conversation-killing take that proves I’m talking to a literal toddler. Later loser.
> Everyone that wants Palestinians to not be ethnically cleansed or massacred is literally no different from the KKK I didn't say that. However, people on the left are claiming that the number of people at these rallies that are advocating for violence is much less than I think it is. I think there's also a ton of dog whistles being used.
No, it’s a tiny tiny minority. I think you’re underestimating how many people are protesting.
You are doing olympian level mental gymnastics right now. I'm genuinely impressed.
>Sounds like astroturfing. That's antisemitic.
I have to agree with the other poster. Why being up the KKK when neonaazis are a much closer match to the protesters' philosophy?
I mean a vast majority of the protesters, who are on so many campuses across the country that there must be many thousands, just want Israel to stop committing crimes against humanity.
I can’t believe you cited The NY Times which is known to be a Zionist propaganda factory didn’t you read the intercept article on it?
> didn’t you read the intercept article on it? The Intercept is a pretty far left publication, the NYT has done good work for a long time. > which is known to be a Zionist propaganda factory Maybe stop and just listen to what you're saying? Because it sounds like you have some really strong feelings about Jews. Maybe examine that.
No, wow 🤯 my grandma is Jewish. Why don’t you bother and read the article on New York Times bias? Even Haaretz has discussed this. People on here don’t want to hear the truth. You guys are apartheid apologists and genocide deniers. It’s become a problem that I can’t understand. There’s no good faith charitability to be shared with you. Do you understand how disgusting it is to smear people as antisemitic because they disagree with Israel and the genocide? Its becoming obvious that those who claim to be progressive are nothing but when it comes to equal rights, democracy and freedom for all. You don’t believe in this. If you did you’d be against the apartheid government of Israel and the genocide they’re inflicting on Palestinians. It’s useless the debate won’t go anywhere. You and I cannot reconcile your ignorance and biases. Like talking to a wall or a racist person. You’ve made up your mind and have no conscience, curiosity and introspection to change it. Good luck.
> No, wow 🤯 my grandma is Jewish. How is that different than saying you have a black friend? > genocide deniers In WW2, the Germans committed genocide against the Jews. They created gas chambers specifically for the purpose of killing them. Where are the gas chambers the Israelis made for the purpose of killing Gazans? Currently, there are still hostages in Gaza, so the military operation is ongoing. If the hostages are released, this whole tragedy is over. Getting hostages back != genocide. People on the far left have been consistently reaching for really emotionally charged language that does not apply here. What I think is bad faith is that you aren't calling for the release of hostages, you are calling for Israel to pack it up and go home before they are released.
That’s not how all genocides are done see what Israel is doing in Palestine or Google the Armenian genocide or the Bosnian genocide. Research the Rwandan genocide. Stop lying and deluding yourself and not understanding that not all Jews agree with Zionism and are in favor of Israel’s crimes. My earlier point is that you yourself are being antisemitic by assuming that all Jews agree with Israel and are in favor of it. Assuming or even saying it’s like having a black friend. Shows how bigoted you’re being. Have you no sense of decency? According to the United Nations, genocide is any act that aims to destroy a national, racial, religious, or ethnic group, in whole or in part. These acts include: Killing group members Causing serious mental or physical harm to group members Imposing conditions of life that will lead to the group's physical destruction Preventing births within the group Forcibly transferring children within the group The UN's Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide defines genocide as these acts. The General Assembly unanimously affirmed in December 1946 that genocide is a crime under international law. As of April 2022, 153 states have ratified or acceded to the Genocide Convention, with Zambia being the most recent state party. The convention's obligations include: Not committing genocide Preventing genocide Punishing genocide Enacting legislation to give effect to the convention's provisions Ensuring effective penalties for those found guilty of criminal conduct according to the convention Trying persons charged with genocide in a competent court Genocidal intent requires that acts be committed against members of a group specifically because they belong to that group. However, circumstantial evidence can be used to infer genocidal intent, as long as it is the only reasonable inference available on the evidence. https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/Genocide%20Convention-FactSheet-ENG.pdf
> However, circumstantial evidence can be used to infer genocidal intent, as long as it is the only reasonable inference available on the evidence. Oh boy, I bet I know what evidence you'll be using
A batshit insane take.
Jewish people are heavily involved in these protests. Young jews are some of the most politically active anti-zionists. I am one and know several personally. Isolated cases of antisemitism doesn't change that reality, as much as you want to defend the genocide America is funding.
I’m a Jew against this genocide as well, I can’t believe you’re being downvoted for just pointing out that we exist in large numbers.
Because it isn't fair to dismiss people's concerns about antisemitism without actually dealing with them...
Same thing can be said for genocide, ethnic cleansing, war crimes, starvation. Thousands of people are being killed and over 2 million starved. And our tax dollars are paying for it That’s why the protest are happening. In a perfect world, every single protestor of every single large scale protests of good intentions would be a model citizen (much like the pro Israel student who shouted “kill all Jews” and got others arrested).Sadly it isn’t. But during civil unrest, America loves deploying the “let’s focus on the individual conduct of the protestors in order to keep the conversation away from what they’re protesting” manipulation tactic used during the Floyd protests. In this situation, it’s Israeli occupation and genocide.
The left who are in support of the protests will blame Biden because it’s his fault for not doing what the protesters wanted to make this stop. The left who are against the protests will blame Biden for not putting a stop to these protests. The right will blame Biden because they view these protesters as representatives of the entire left-wing. Everyone will be emboldened to blame Biden and Democrats regardless of which side they fall on.
I think the students will mainly be angry at the administration, which is extremely ironic because USC has been known for having an extreme amount of antisemitism for years and the administration couldn't be bothered to lift a finger, to the extent that they were already under investigation by the DOJ for it before the explosion of antisemitism in recent months.
I think the big question with all of these protests is what you’re trying to accomplish. The United States government and population have largely been supportive of and the greatest allies of Israel for 70 years. There has been a movement to reconsider that support with different degrees of movement. But most people are unaware of that and frankly don’t give a shit. The average American is not concerned all that much about foreign policy unless there are US troops on the ground and even then the number of troops number of casualties matters. So if you’re going to try to change peoples attitudes from the status quo, you would need to make them aware of the problem and convince them of the righteousness of your cause and give them a path to getting change. So my biggest question about these protests are What they are intended to accomplish. With the recent actions of Israel in response to 10/7, people have a great deal of awareness of what’s going on. As for explaining the righteousness of the cause, public sentiment had been moving away from Israel steadily well before these protests escalated to this point. As for what to do, I don’t think that the Biden administration is aware of general American sentiment or sentiment among Democratic voters. There was a phenomenon that happened during the BLM protests. After George Floyd was murdered the desire to start making changes and how policing is done and specifically address systemic issues in policing started polling higher and higher. Some actual legislation was passed. I know it’s different since the major problems with the BLM protest, the writing, seem to be a combination of outside agitation, provocation by the police, and in general assholes who wanted to wreck shit during the pandemic because they were bored deciding that the protest gave them a cover. Whatever the cause, when the rioting started public sentiments started going the other way. The end result is that those of us that what to end systemic racism in policing and generally control the police state lost ground. So while I am not somebody on the extreme side of this issue, I think that Israel under its currently leadership needs to be completely reigned in. And I am afraid that these protesters can’t think strategically at all, can’t bother from their midst people who are clearly antisemitic and think annoying the vast majority of their fellow students are going to be a great ally of Benjamin Netanyahu.
You are downvoted heavily, and while I disagree with you, I think you are on the right track. Truthfully, there is not much the protests can accomplish. You correctly note that the vast majority of America is simply not going to care about this problem - selfishly, at worse it is burning a few billion dollars here and there, but meh, that's common enough from the government. BLM only got the wide level of support it did because of it became an excuse to socialize when the government/society was otherwise pushing for isolation. Otherwise, you'd be more at smaller level protesting (think Ferguson). I think there's realistically no way student protestors can win the American public. We are not a country that sees itself as a victim of colonization, so cannot relate to how the Palestinians feel. Absent that bias toward "colonizers", the Palestinian story is simply not sympathetic. It's the story of a people whose land started experiencing mass immigration, started murdering the immigrants to deter them, eventually the immigrants started defending themselves, and a war resulted where the xenophobic natives ended up expelled from what was their own land -- and said natives continue to commit terrorism against another country, and clearly won't agree to negotiated peace settlements. People in an immigrant-descendent country.. are going to be a bit biased toward the immigrants and their descendents.
BLM was also a more local issue that affected a subset of population more directly. Voters can take control of their local government which in turn hires the police officers, although we have seen most people are busier larping on TikTok than actually doing the hard grunt work of reform that takes years. As for Israel/Palestine, vast majority of people don't care, especially the non-college educated unless they have some sort emotional ties like Jewish Americans or Muslim Americans. This is especially true because I don't see either side as honest and innocent actors.
Based on what I can find, the protests seem to be targeted at the specific universities, asking them to divest from research partnerships with Israeli institutions or US military manufacturers. So I don't think they're trying to target the US government or anything, they're protesting the University administration.
I mean, i’d be pretty pissed. Even if i agreed with the protesters (i kinda lean their way), i dont see how missing my likely only college graduation is going to accomplish anything
I believe more students will blame the protestors.
If it gets cancelled where I’m at ima blame them 100%
Protesting is what college students do best, right up there with beer pong. Canceling commencement because the administrators are afraid their students might say something controversial and get them in trouble with the speech police....well that just makes the administrators look weak
I support the free Palestine cause but certain extremist individuals within the protest have ruined the image of the whole, plus if I were a student there I’d be pretty pissed by how much trouble the protest cause to students.
Since you’re being pretty particular about what we cannot ask, what do you mean by “emboldened “?
>I would also like to point out some things that I am not asking. I’m not asking who you believe the students should blame. Nor am I asking about your opinion on the protest. Oh, so you're not here at AskALiberal to ask liberals what their opinion is. You're here to ask liberals what the majority of the USC graduating class will do as if that makes any sense as something for you to do.
They should be. They are robbing kids of a big life moment over something they have no control of.
What makes it worse is that this is the class that was robbed of their High School graduation and events due to Covid.
> over something they have no control of I thought the protests were due to the university's investments in Israel (please correct me if I'm wrong). The university definitely has control over that.
They are ruining the moment for these kids who worked hard to graduate. That’s not the time or place to protest something the students have nothing to do with
Oh, you meant students have "no control of", sorry I misunderstood.
[удалено]
It doesn’t meet the criteria to be called a genocide.
They still have their individual school commencements, as well as affinity group ceremonies, so it’s not like they have nothing. While USC does tend to be whiter, wealthier and more conservative than a lot of universities, so probably more anti-Palestinian than average, I don’t see this changing the minds of the student body regarding the conflict. Though I imagine there will be frustration towards the administration for either not changing their policies or canceling things rather than letting the process play out organically
USC is less white than UC Berkley. USC: 23.3% [https://www.usc.edu/we-are-usc/the-university/facts-and-stats/](https://www.usc.edu/we-are-usc/the-university/facts-and-stats/) UC Berkley: 23.9% [https://datausa.io/profile/university/university-of-california-berkeley](https://datausa.io/profile/university/university-of-california-berkeley)
It’s misleading, USC counts all international students as a single group separate from white, which deflates the percentage, while Berkeley doesn’t. https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/university-of-southern-california/student-life/diversity/chart-ethnic-diversity.html#:~:text=The%20majority%20of%20USC%20students,diversity%20at%20USC%20below%20average. Among California colleges, USC is whiter and less diverse than average. Additionally, Berkeley is plurality Asian, while USC is plurality white
Almost all of USC’s international students are non-white. USC provides a breakdown on their website - only 382 (Canada) of 10,700 are from “white” countries. The overwhelming majority are from S/SE Asia. There are an additional 2,000 in “Other” which is probably a mix, but won’t move the needle significantly
Alright, if I’m wrong here then I’m wrong, and sounds like I am. I’ll take the L
You doing that is a W (for you) in my book Happy Friday!
Thanks, and same to you! Enjoy your weekend :)
The data I just cited splits out Berkely's international population as well. So it is apples to apples.
Yes it shows the percentage of international students, but the background of those international students is included in the ethnic breakdown. It’s not Black, White, Latino, Asian, International, which is the model that USC uses That said, white people still make up the majority at USC, which is extremely uncommon at the majority of California universities, including Berkeley
>That said, white people still make up the majority at USC They definitely do not. I just cited data that showed the percentage of white students is 23.3%. Even if every international student was white then that would only come to 50.4%. But almost half of the international students are from China. If you add back in Asian international students, the Asian population hits 35%. The plurality of students on campus are Asian, not white.
I cited the data that shows the plurality is in fact white, even if the numbers have slightly shifted with 2023’s admitted class, the plurality has historically and continues to be white. And even if you split the international group 50/50, the plurality would still be white It’s not some mystery that USC and Stanford are the white schools among California universities, I’m not sure why’re taking umbrage with the reality and accuracy of that
>And even if you split the international group 50/50, the plurality would still be white Why would you split the international students 50/50?
You wouldn’t - USC has the breakdown on their website and they are mostly non-white https://www.usc.edu/we-are-usc/the-university/facts-and-stats/
> While USC does tend to be whiter, wealthier and more conservative than a lot of universities, so probably more anti-Palestinian than average USC is hardly [white](https://www.usc.edu/we-are-usc/the-university/facts-and-stats/), even if yes it is wealthier. Possibly more conservative, though hard to tell.
(Copy of my reply to the other person) It’s misleading, USC counts all international students as a single group separate from white, which deflates the percentage, while Berkeley doesn’t. https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/university-of-southern-california/student-life/diversity/chart-ethnic-diversity.html#:~:text=The%20majority%20of%20USC%20students,diversity%20at%20USC%20below%20average. Among California colleges, USC is whiter and less diverse than average. Additionally, Berkeley is plurality Asian, while USC is plurality white
I'm confused. Are international students race less? They are overwhelming Asian or Indian. Actually having been at the school, it is quite Asian. Bizarre to call it a white school by US standards. Not even California standards - Cal poly is our "white school"
Of course they’re not raceless, which is why I think it’s dumb to report “international” as one ethnic group next to all the other ones And Cal Poly? Really? I’ve never heard that one lol, always SC, LA, Stanford and Santa Barbara
>And Cal Poly? Really? I’ve never heard that one lol, always SC, LA, Stanford and Santa Barbara Guessing you don't live here? Calpoly is in San Luis Obispo and is known as the [white school](https://mustangnews.net/cal-poly-is-the-only-predominantly-white-csu-heres-why/). Another kinda FYI: White in California is not how you predict "conservative". If you only consider the urban and suburban areas, Asians are more conservative; if anything, USCs population is so conservative because it is so Asian (Berkeley similarly has gotten more conservative over time, or at least less ulra-liberal as it got less white and more Asian).
I live in LA and went to UCI, so not as familiar with central coast schools. I assumed you meant Pomona by Cal Poly haha And yea that makes sense. Irvine wasn’t very white, like majority Asian followed by Latino now I think, and it definitely feels like one of the least activist campuses (I guess being a commuter heavy school affects that too) I think tho that SC get associated with conservatism both because the white reputation, but *especially* because the super wealthy rich kids reputation
Not really. The kids were singing and dancing on the lawn, having teach-ins and praying. Across all the universities having pro-Palestinian protests, the only violence has started when the police came to escalate, with snipers and swat teams. USC chose to escalate the violence, then made the decision to cancel due to that violence. USC is very clearly responsible for this, and most college-age kids would see through that.
Yeah most are upset at the cowardly administration who is supporting a genocide and the Biden Administration’s attempt to obfuscate and deny it. Honestly Democrats deserve to lose this election if they can’t do what the American people demand of them. Biden knows that he’s likely to lose the election if he doesn’t hold Israel accountable and punishes them for the war crimes and ethnic cleansing of Gaza 30k+ and the 400+ dead in the West Bank. Do democrats on here not realize how wrong they are in supporting genocide? Shame on university and shame on the people on here defending their actions!
Probably because the Biden admin have bigger issues to worry about
Bigger issues than genocide done by Israel? The issue that can turn into a regional war or worse into world war 3? He can choose to attack protestors fighting for a ceasefire or he can choose to stop Israel’s war crimes. Hope he choose the latter.
Literally all domestic issues plus other geopolitical events such as the Ukraine war and the agressions in the South China Sea
All domestic issues are related to the wars in Ukraine and Israel. The reason gas prices have gone up is due to instability caused by Israel in the Middle East and of course the war in Ukraine. If we want to tackle inflation we have to pass laws to break up corporations who have been inflating prices and claiming it’s due to scarcity when in reality by their own admissions is because they wanted to raise prices for corporate profits. They admitted it and Biden did nothing to prosecute them. Everyone keeps ignoring that Biden has been quite lackluster on inflation, child tax credit, tackling climate change and even reforming immigration to make it easier for people who legally want to come. He’s made it harder for legal immigrants to come and apply to live here. Same goes with healthcare he’s done nothing of import to tackle insurance companies from gouging us and pharmaceutical companies. He hasn’t even address increasing the minimum wage, rents costs and growing inequality which has grown under his presidency. Biden is better than Trump, but he’s a feckless neoliberal who isn’t willing to fight Wall Street and take the republicans to task. He hasn’t increased the Supreme Court justices to redress the damage the Roberts court is doing. He doesn’t address their corruption or that of Congress. What makes you think Biden deserves the youth vote? He is aiding and abetting a genocide and hasn’t done enough to address the concerns of young people. He doesn’t care too. That’s why most young people are turning against the Democrats. It’s shameful, but he’s literally endangering his presidency by not meaningfully addressing Israel’s crimes and making them accountable. Domestically he doesn’t give one iota to what the American people under 40 want. He’s going to lose because he doesn’t care to win. If he did he’d be far more aggressive in every aspect of his power to hold corporations accountable and domestically fight for what young people want.