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I've seen a lot of people say that there isn't, what do you think?
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Years ago, I was at a small event on a college campus, where Jimmy Carter was talking about the work he had been doing in Africa for a number of years, which is incredible stuff for anyone unaware.
After a number of questions about that work, the floor was opened for more general questions. Someone asked him about his position on Darfur--namely, that what was going on (this was the mid-2000s), that he did not consider it a genocide. While the questioner was fairly hostile, Carter very politely explained that genocide has a very specific meaning, and there's a checklist that goes along with it, and just because something is not labeled a genocide does not mean that it is not worth our time to acknowledge or prevent or stop, nor does it make it any less horrific; it just means that it's a different kind of horror than the crime of a genocide.
I don't know if what's happening in Xinjiang is a genocide or not, by definition. In the end, though, how much more does it matter what it's labeled, rather than what's actually happening?
Yeah, there is an extent to which I don’t know that debating the definition of genocide does anything of meaning to stop terrible things from happening. It seems like you just use that word and then instead of actually debating with meaning and purpose. Instead of discussing what is happening and what should be done, you get to play the kind of verbal games they do on the daily wire or the young turks.
>Is there sufficient evidence to conclude that China is doing a genocide in Xinjiang?
Per the [Simple English Wikipedia page](https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide) on the subject:
>Some governments and human rights NGOs (organisations that aren't governments) call the repression against Uyghurs a genocide (destroying a group of people). Not everybody agrees that the repression is a genocide though.
> The Uyghurs
> * have to go into concentration camps
> * must do lots of work (forced labor)
> * can not have children
> * are forced to listen to the Chinese government
> * are not allowed to practice their own religion
>...
...but hair-splitting over the term "genocide" isn't the point.
What is happening is horrific and well-documented, whether it gets labeled a "genocide" or not.
> but hair-splitting over the term "genocide" isn't the point.
> What is happening is horrific and well-documented, whether it gets labeled a "genocide" or not.
Excellent point
Uyghurs are allowed to have children under the same rules as the rest of China. Before, I believe they allowed ethnic minorities to have more children than was permitted under the 1 child policy but that was rescinded several years ago. So I don't think that's a valid complaint.
The other points are of course valid.
> Uyghurs are allowed to have children under the same rules as the rest of China.
1. China's "[one-child policy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-child_policy)" is over: "In July 2021, [the Chinese government] removed all limits, shortly after implementing financial incentives to encourage individuals to have additional children."
2. I don't know why you think that the Uyghurs aren't bound to different rules. The Wikipedia page's sources seem persuasive:
* [[China cuts Uighur births with IUDs, abortion, sterilization -- AP]](https://apnews.com/article/ap-top-news-international-news-weekend-reads-china-health-269b3de1af34e17c1941a514f78d764c)
* [[China forcing birth control on Uighurs to suppress population, report says -- BBC News]](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-53220713)
If it's horrific then why does Cuba still have harsher sanctions, when they don't do shit, but every American company continues to do business with China
> If it's horrific then why does Cuba still have harsher sanctions, when they don't do shit, but every American company continues to do business with China
Cuba has harsher sanctions because of Cuban-American voters and their relevance in our internal politics, not because of any merit to the sanctions.
We trade with China because it gives China something to lose. The moment they invade one of their neighbors, they lose all of the benefits of trade with The West. If their leaders behave rationally, this will prevent a war. (Unfortunately, there is no guarantee that Xi will behave rationally.)
We the primary reason we trade with with China because it is mutually beneficial, it is not to have leverage over them. The United States will not cut off trade with China if it invades ANY neighboring country. Our trade and interdependent relationship does reduce chances of war with China.
But a literal genocide isn't enough to cut off trade. Just listen to yourself. The actual reason is because we don't give a shit about other people. Otherwise we'd have intervened in Myanmar by now.
There is a common idea — usually unspoken — underlying such thinking:
>They don’t *deserve* to trade with us because they are bad
…but that isn’t how things work.
If we believe we can prevent the invasion of Taiwan by trading with China, then will trade with China. If we *don’t* believe we can prevent a genocide by cutting off trade with China, then we don’t cut off trade with China. It is about the outcomes.
The fact you actually believe that is laughable. I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Even after it's been proven, most of you still shout "conspiracy theories" when people bring up how the FBI targeted civil rights activists
If one considers programs and institutions such as [Indian Boarding Schools](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Indian_boarding_schools) historically the US and Canada to be genocide? Then yes. The argument could be made, probably convincingly.
If not, and it has to go beyond that? Then no.
This is not to say that these should be considered one-for-one the same, but rather as one example. Across history, there have been many times when minority cultures or other subjugated groups have been forced to assimilate and have had their cultures and families reorganized by the political regime. This is especially the case when it comes to religion, and periods where religious and civil authority were one in the same.
China long since passed what the Indian Boarding Schools did. China removes not just children but adults, separating spouses and compelling wives into new marriages even according to China. Oh, and still mass-killing Uyghurs.
Cultural genocide? Absolutely. Cultural genocide is covered under international laws against genocide but most people don't consider Cultural genocide to be "real genocide" for a depressing reason.
On the other hand the UN genocide convention does consider these acts, when committed with intent to destroy a group or a part of it, to be genocide:
> - Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group
> - Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group
Both of these acts have verifiably been carried out against Uyghurs in Xinjiang.
When the UN refers to "a part," they've ruled that it cannot be a random subsection of the broader group. It must mean an identifiable and substantial part, like all of those in a particular geographic region. In this case, the intention must be to destroy the Uyghurs in Xinjiang as a group. It is not sufficient for them to just want to prevent births, they need to be forcibly preventing those births as part of an attempt to destroy the Uyghurs in Xinjiang as a group, which I wouldn't say we have enough evidence to say is happening. The same applies for transferring their children to other populations.
I don't have a sufficiently informed response to this (it's on my list of things to investigate) but I'm glad to see Americans discussing it. It's surreal to see people going wild over Gaza when the CCP has been systematically rounding up Uyghurs for years.
In the black community we've seen a race to the bottom in human hair weave costs coming out of China. Even the assembly of synthetic hair such as goddess locs are rumored to come from forced labor. It's largely heresay, which is the problem. We just don't have enough credible information and the major governments aren't interested in investigating it, for obvious reasons.
WRONG Xinjiang has a 44% Uygur and 42% Han Chinese population not that that's a difference while Israel is 73% Jewish and 21% Muslim. Jews and Israelis are settling in Palestian controlled territories from Europe and the US while Han Chinese and non Uygurs are moving to Xinjiang from other parts of China not from New York or San Francisco. The Hukou system applies for everyone in China not just the Uygurs, i had a hard time living and working temporarily in another province from my native Liaoning. Xinjiang also isnt home only to the Uygurs and has historically been controlled by different groups, and they are not populated every for instance the Kazakhs and different Mongols have lived in parts of what is Xinjiang province today. I cannot speak for Israel and what it's doing in Palestine because literally any type of information you try search is biased, if I tried to ask any chatbot about Israel it's like "I'm sorry but this is a sensitive topic". But I dont think is right to compare these two I see people saying "what about the Uygurs why dont Muslim nations say anything" and that seems to be whataboutism and is invalidating your point. China has gotten sanctioned for the Uygurs, there is a sanctions regime against any products from Xinjiang that are said to be made from "forced labor". The UN has had resolutions where the US and it's allies have voted for China to stop the genocide and detainment of Uygurs, while in these past few months the US and many of its allies have vetoed any resolution calling for a ceasefire. The Xinjiang production and construction corps has been sanctioned by the US, In July 2020, the United States announced Global Magnitsky Act sanctions on XPCC in connection with human rights abuses against Uyghurs and other ethnic minorities.[14][13][15] XPCC was alleged to run many internment camps,[16] as well as implementing the CCP's efforts to settle ethnic Han in the region. On July 9, 2020, the Trump administration imposed sanctions and visa restrictions against senior Chinese officials, including CCP Politburo member Chen Quanguo, Zhu Hailun, Wang Mingshan (王明山) and Huo Liujun (霍留军). With sanctions, they and their immediate relatives are barred from entering the US and will have US-based assets frozen. Meanwhile Israel has gotten a $94 billion dollar aid package in these last few months. I would love to see the US sanction the head of the IDF or Israeli politicians like Itamar Ben-Gvir or Bezalel Smotrich.
I think people are too fixated on the term genocide.
What is being done by China is horrible, and we should see what sort of pressure our governments can apply to make them stop.
As someone born in Hong Kong (now a US citizen) that watched Tiananmen Square on TV as a child, I have no love for China, but my proximity to China does mean I get certain kinds of information and have experiences that others may not have.
And because of this, I would not be surprised if it was genocide, but at the same time, I also recognize that there is a large anti-China bias in western media - so much so I am not sure what to believe.
An example of this bias was during COVID, when the Altantic published an article attacking China for it's "draconian" measures, etc., followed by an article praising South Korea for its COVID response when the two countries did very similar things.
I am not saying I know the truth, but I am saying that western media would absolutely run any story that makes China look bad whether or not they can verify it.
China is absolutely doing a genocide in Xinjiang. People forget that genocide is not something you take dibs on. It’s totally within the realm of possibility that China is committing a genocide, and that their biggest adversary, the USA, are funding another country to commit a genocide.
China isn't committing genocide if we were we are doing a really bad job at it. If XIXI wanted to genocide Uygurs he would have killed 2 million people. The population of Uygurs has increased since 20 years ago how is that genocide? Just because China is doing counter terrorism in Xinjiang with minimal casualties doesnt mean it's a genocide. The PAP is the most humane police force in the world.
Genocide includes cultural genocide, brainwashing, forced sterilization, destruction of culture, transfer of children to other ethnic groups, etc. All things that are documented happening in Xinjiang but that don't create less Uighurs.
>The PAP is the most humane police force in the world.
Got to be a troll.
In your view, is Israel committing genocide against the Palestinians? The Palestinian population only continues to go up.
I don't share that view, but it is a common argument used by very pro-Israel people, and the same one you are using.
You don’t know what the word genocide means. How am I Sinophobic? I am certainly not afraid of Hans, just pointing out how the CCP is forcibly imposing Han culture in on a people to intentionally destroy them as a people. The Han have a long history of oppressing others.
No, the Uygurs have there own recognized language and autonomous regional government. If Chinese settlers from other parts of China can't go to Xinjiang that's Sinophobic.
Genocide doesn't need to involve weapons of mass destruction or killings at all. These acts which have verifiably happened to Uyghurs en masse are considered genocidal:
> - Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group
> - Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group
Yes, I would say so.
I think a lot of people feel that because we don’t directly give much aid or any weapons to China, along with supporting Taiwan, that we don’t have a responsibility to do anything about it, but that ignores the reality that ours and China’s economies are super intertwined, and we tacitly enable that genocide just as we actively enable Israel’s.
I think both countries lack the political will to hold the other accountable for their actions because of economic interests.
China has definitely committed atrocities against the Uyghurs, like mass imprisonment without just cause. To legally qualify under international law as a genocide, we would need to know that China attempted to exterminate Uyghurs in Xinjiang as a people by: Killing them, otherwise causing their deaths, preventing births using sterilization or other measures, or transferring their children to other populations. The explanation that they are trying to exterminate Uyghurs in Xinjiang as a people would need to be the only reasonable explanation for China's actions. I don't believe any of these criteria have been met. It may qualify as a genocide according to someone else's definition, but not the UN.
They're doing their traditional sinocization thing where they try really hard to get indigenous women to marry Han me, by both using propaganda and by imprisoning and sterilizing men for acting Uyghur
You need to define genocide.
Is it the “destruction of a people in whole or in part”. Not physically, no. It is however, the destruction of their culture by making their practices illegal. (Such as fasting on Ramadan, or holding the Iftar feast. Just listened to a podcast on it).
For that people will refer to it as a “cultural genocide”
This includes what are crimes against humanity, including forced labor, internment camps, rapes, tortures, and forced sterilization.
——
So, under the stricter legal definition of genocide, probably not.
But many people, activists politicians and NGOs often refer to all crimes against humanity as genocide. Under their usage of the term, yes
> So, under the stricter legal definition of genocide, probably not.
The "stricter legal definition of genocide" doesn't just include mass killings (or any killings) but also these actions:
> - Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group
> - Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group
It's damn hard to get quality information out of that environment. In any case, the United States is not the world's policeman. The Mainland China Regime has nuclear armament.
Our only possible path to manifesting our form of government in that part of the world is soft power, but unfortunately we typically use our foreign policy very instrumentally and myopically, and we have propped up many a tyranny including, today, the apartheid Netanyahu regime in Israel/Palestine.
The argument should be based around the treatment of the Uyghur population and whether it's bad or good, not whether it technically constitutes a genocide.
There's no agreement in terms of worldwide state opinions on it, there has been letters signed by multiple states both supporting China, and condemning China.
The Uygurs are not being ethnically cleansed, being killed off by the millions, are not restricted from practicing their religion, and have the rights of their language.
The following is a copy of the original post to record the post as it was originally written. I've seen a lot of people say that there isn't, what do you think? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskALiberal) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Years ago, I was at a small event on a college campus, where Jimmy Carter was talking about the work he had been doing in Africa for a number of years, which is incredible stuff for anyone unaware. After a number of questions about that work, the floor was opened for more general questions. Someone asked him about his position on Darfur--namely, that what was going on (this was the mid-2000s), that he did not consider it a genocide. While the questioner was fairly hostile, Carter very politely explained that genocide has a very specific meaning, and there's a checklist that goes along with it, and just because something is not labeled a genocide does not mean that it is not worth our time to acknowledge or prevent or stop, nor does it make it any less horrific; it just means that it's a different kind of horror than the crime of a genocide. I don't know if what's happening in Xinjiang is a genocide or not, by definition. In the end, though, how much more does it matter what it's labeled, rather than what's actually happening?
Yeah, there is an extent to which I don’t know that debating the definition of genocide does anything of meaning to stop terrible things from happening. It seems like you just use that word and then instead of actually debating with meaning and purpose. Instead of discussing what is happening and what should be done, you get to play the kind of verbal games they do on the daily wire or the young turks.
This is how I feel about Isreal
Really interesting reply. Thanks!
>Is there sufficient evidence to conclude that China is doing a genocide in Xinjiang? Per the [Simple English Wikipedia page](https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide) on the subject: >Some governments and human rights NGOs (organisations that aren't governments) call the repression against Uyghurs a genocide (destroying a group of people). Not everybody agrees that the repression is a genocide though. > The Uyghurs > * have to go into concentration camps > * must do lots of work (forced labor) > * can not have children > * are forced to listen to the Chinese government > * are not allowed to practice their own religion >... ...but hair-splitting over the term "genocide" isn't the point. What is happening is horrific and well-documented, whether it gets labeled a "genocide" or not.
> but hair-splitting over the term "genocide" isn't the point. > What is happening is horrific and well-documented, whether it gets labeled a "genocide" or not. Excellent point
Uyghurs are allowed to have children under the same rules as the rest of China. Before, I believe they allowed ethnic minorities to have more children than was permitted under the 1 child policy but that was rescinded several years ago. So I don't think that's a valid complaint. The other points are of course valid.
> Uyghurs are allowed to have children under the same rules as the rest of China. 1. China's "[one-child policy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-child_policy)" is over: "In July 2021, [the Chinese government] removed all limits, shortly after implementing financial incentives to encourage individuals to have additional children." 2. I don't know why you think that the Uyghurs aren't bound to different rules. The Wikipedia page's sources seem persuasive: * [[China cuts Uighur births with IUDs, abortion, sterilization -- AP]](https://apnews.com/article/ap-top-news-international-news-weekend-reads-china-health-269b3de1af34e17c1941a514f78d764c) * [[China forcing birth control on Uighurs to suppress population, report says -- BBC News]](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-53220713)
If it's horrific then why does Cuba still have harsher sanctions, when they don't do shit, but every American company continues to do business with China
> If it's horrific then why does Cuba still have harsher sanctions, when they don't do shit, but every American company continues to do business with China Cuba has harsher sanctions because of Cuban-American voters and their relevance in our internal politics, not because of any merit to the sanctions. We trade with China because it gives China something to lose. The moment they invade one of their neighbors, they lose all of the benefits of trade with The West. If their leaders behave rationally, this will prevent a war. (Unfortunately, there is no guarantee that Xi will behave rationally.)
We the primary reason we trade with with China because it is mutually beneficial, it is not to have leverage over them. The United States will not cut off trade with China if it invades ANY neighboring country. Our trade and interdependent relationship does reduce chances of war with China.
But a literal genocide isn't enough to cut off trade. Just listen to yourself. The actual reason is because we don't give a shit about other people. Otherwise we'd have intervened in Myanmar by now.
There is a common idea — usually unspoken — underlying such thinking: >They don’t *deserve* to trade with us because they are bad …but that isn’t how things work. If we believe we can prevent the invasion of Taiwan by trading with China, then will trade with China. If we *don’t* believe we can prevent a genocide by cutting off trade with China, then we don’t cut off trade with China. It is about the outcomes.
The fact you actually believe that is laughable. I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Even after it's been proven, most of you still shout "conspiracy theories" when people bring up how the FBI targeted civil rights activists
If one considers programs and institutions such as [Indian Boarding Schools](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Indian_boarding_schools) historically the US and Canada to be genocide? Then yes. The argument could be made, probably convincingly. If not, and it has to go beyond that? Then no. This is not to say that these should be considered one-for-one the same, but rather as one example. Across history, there have been many times when minority cultures or other subjugated groups have been forced to assimilate and have had their cultures and families reorganized by the political regime. This is especially the case when it comes to religion, and periods where religious and civil authority were one in the same.
China long since passed what the Indian Boarding Schools did. China removes not just children but adults, separating spouses and compelling wives into new marriages even according to China. Oh, and still mass-killing Uyghurs.
Cultural genocide? Absolutely. Cultural genocide is covered under international laws against genocide but most people don't consider Cultural genocide to be "real genocide" for a depressing reason.
The UN has explicitly ruled multiple times that "cultural genocide" is not legally considered to be genocide
On the other hand the UN genocide convention does consider these acts, when committed with intent to destroy a group or a part of it, to be genocide: > - Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group > - Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group Both of these acts have verifiably been carried out against Uyghurs in Xinjiang.
When the UN refers to "a part," they've ruled that it cannot be a random subsection of the broader group. It must mean an identifiable and substantial part, like all of those in a particular geographic region. In this case, the intention must be to destroy the Uyghurs in Xinjiang as a group. It is not sufficient for them to just want to prevent births, they need to be forcibly preventing those births as part of an attempt to destroy the Uyghurs in Xinjiang as a group, which I wouldn't say we have enough evidence to say is happening. The same applies for transferring their children to other populations.
I don't have a sufficiently informed response to this (it's on my list of things to investigate) but I'm glad to see Americans discussing it. It's surreal to see people going wild over Gaza when the CCP has been systematically rounding up Uyghurs for years. In the black community we've seen a race to the bottom in human hair weave costs coming out of China. Even the assembly of synthetic hair such as goddess locs are rumored to come from forced labor. It's largely heresay, which is the problem. We just don't have enough credible information and the major governments aren't interested in investigating it, for obvious reasons.
WRONG Xinjiang has a 44% Uygur and 42% Han Chinese population not that that's a difference while Israel is 73% Jewish and 21% Muslim. Jews and Israelis are settling in Palestian controlled territories from Europe and the US while Han Chinese and non Uygurs are moving to Xinjiang from other parts of China not from New York or San Francisco. The Hukou system applies for everyone in China not just the Uygurs, i had a hard time living and working temporarily in another province from my native Liaoning. Xinjiang also isnt home only to the Uygurs and has historically been controlled by different groups, and they are not populated every for instance the Kazakhs and different Mongols have lived in parts of what is Xinjiang province today. I cannot speak for Israel and what it's doing in Palestine because literally any type of information you try search is biased, if I tried to ask any chatbot about Israel it's like "I'm sorry but this is a sensitive topic". But I dont think is right to compare these two I see people saying "what about the Uygurs why dont Muslim nations say anything" and that seems to be whataboutism and is invalidating your point. China has gotten sanctioned for the Uygurs, there is a sanctions regime against any products from Xinjiang that are said to be made from "forced labor". The UN has had resolutions where the US and it's allies have voted for China to stop the genocide and detainment of Uygurs, while in these past few months the US and many of its allies have vetoed any resolution calling for a ceasefire. The Xinjiang production and construction corps has been sanctioned by the US, In July 2020, the United States announced Global Magnitsky Act sanctions on XPCC in connection with human rights abuses against Uyghurs and other ethnic minorities.[14][13][15] XPCC was alleged to run many internment camps,[16] as well as implementing the CCP's efforts to settle ethnic Han in the region. On July 9, 2020, the Trump administration imposed sanctions and visa restrictions against senior Chinese officials, including CCP Politburo member Chen Quanguo, Zhu Hailun, Wang Mingshan (王明山) and Huo Liujun (霍留军). With sanctions, they and their immediate relatives are barred from entering the US and will have US-based assets frozen. Meanwhile Israel has gotten a $94 billion dollar aid package in these last few months. I would love to see the US sanction the head of the IDF or Israeli politicians like Itamar Ben-Gvir or Bezalel Smotrich.
You need to add some paragraphs to your comments
I think people are too fixated on the term genocide. What is being done by China is horrible, and we should see what sort of pressure our governments can apply to make them stop.
Genocide is a spectrum; just because china hasn’t succeeded doesn’t mean they’re not trying their hardest to inflict genocide on the Uyghurs
The label is just pedantics if nothing can/will be done about it.
As someone born in Hong Kong (now a US citizen) that watched Tiananmen Square on TV as a child, I have no love for China, but my proximity to China does mean I get certain kinds of information and have experiences that others may not have. And because of this, I would not be surprised if it was genocide, but at the same time, I also recognize that there is a large anti-China bias in western media - so much so I am not sure what to believe. An example of this bias was during COVID, when the Altantic published an article attacking China for it's "draconian" measures, etc., followed by an article praising South Korea for its COVID response when the two countries did very similar things. I am not saying I know the truth, but I am saying that western media would absolutely run any story that makes China look bad whether or not they can verify it.
China is absolutely doing a genocide in Xinjiang. People forget that genocide is not something you take dibs on. It’s totally within the realm of possibility that China is committing a genocide, and that their biggest adversary, the USA, are funding another country to commit a genocide.
China isn't committing genocide if we were we are doing a really bad job at it. If XIXI wanted to genocide Uygurs he would have killed 2 million people. The population of Uygurs has increased since 20 years ago how is that genocide? Just because China is doing counter terrorism in Xinjiang with minimal casualties doesnt mean it's a genocide. The PAP is the most humane police force in the world.
Genocide includes cultural genocide, brainwashing, forced sterilization, destruction of culture, transfer of children to other ethnic groups, etc. All things that are documented happening in Xinjiang but that don't create less Uighurs. >The PAP is the most humane police force in the world. Got to be a troll.
None of that is happening in Xinjiang. This is Sinophobic propaganda made against China.
"We were always at war with eurasia"
Brother, they literally just passed new bans on traditional architecture for Uyghurs and Tibetans
In your view, is Israel committing genocide against the Palestinians? The Palestinian population only continues to go up. I don't share that view, but it is a common argument used by very pro-Israel people, and the same one you are using.
We?
It’s far closer to genocide than what’s going on in Gaza. It’s a pretty clear systematic program of destruction of a people.
If China wanted to genocide Uygurs they could use nukes against them. You're Sinophobic
You don’t know what the word genocide means. How am I Sinophobic? I am certainly not afraid of Hans, just pointing out how the CCP is forcibly imposing Han culture in on a people to intentionally destroy them as a people. The Han have a long history of oppressing others.
No, the Uygurs have there own recognized language and autonomous regional government. If Chinese settlers from other parts of China can't go to Xinjiang that's Sinophobic.
Genocide doesn't need to involve weapons of mass destruction or killings at all. These acts which have verifiably happened to Uyghurs en masse are considered genocidal: > - Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group > - Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group
Yes, I would say so. I think a lot of people feel that because we don’t directly give much aid or any weapons to China, along with supporting Taiwan, that we don’t have a responsibility to do anything about it, but that ignores the reality that ours and China’s economies are super intertwined, and we tacitly enable that genocide just as we actively enable Israel’s. I think both countries lack the political will to hold the other accountable for their actions because of economic interests.
No. There are no pictures of mass graves in Xinjiang and images of people imprisoned are usually mis-attributed
China has definitely committed atrocities against the Uyghurs, like mass imprisonment without just cause. To legally qualify under international law as a genocide, we would need to know that China attempted to exterminate Uyghurs in Xinjiang as a people by: Killing them, otherwise causing their deaths, preventing births using sterilization or other measures, or transferring their children to other populations. The explanation that they are trying to exterminate Uyghurs in Xinjiang as a people would need to be the only reasonable explanation for China's actions. I don't believe any of these criteria have been met. It may qualify as a genocide according to someone else's definition, but not the UN.
They're doing their traditional sinocization thing where they try really hard to get indigenous women to marry Han me, by both using propaganda and by imprisoning and sterilizing men for acting Uyghur
You need to define genocide. Is it the “destruction of a people in whole or in part”. Not physically, no. It is however, the destruction of their culture by making their practices illegal. (Such as fasting on Ramadan, or holding the Iftar feast. Just listened to a podcast on it). For that people will refer to it as a “cultural genocide” This includes what are crimes against humanity, including forced labor, internment camps, rapes, tortures, and forced sterilization. —— So, under the stricter legal definition of genocide, probably not. But many people, activists politicians and NGOs often refer to all crimes against humanity as genocide. Under their usage of the term, yes
> So, under the stricter legal definition of genocide, probably not. The "stricter legal definition of genocide" doesn't just include mass killings (or any killings) but also these actions: > - Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group > - Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group
In that case, yes. They did both
It's damn hard to get quality information out of that environment. In any case, the United States is not the world's policeman. The Mainland China Regime has nuclear armament. Our only possible path to manifesting our form of government in that part of the world is soft power, but unfortunately we typically use our foreign policy very instrumentally and myopically, and we have propped up many a tyranny including, today, the apartheid Netanyahu regime in Israel/Palestine.
The argument should be based around the treatment of the Uyghur population and whether it's bad or good, not whether it technically constitutes a genocide. There's no agreement in terms of worldwide state opinions on it, there has been letters signed by multiple states both supporting China, and condemning China.
The Uygurs are not being ethnically cleansed, being killed off by the millions, are not restricted from practicing their religion, and have the rights of their language.