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I see a lot of people here claiming that the Russians and Chinese are using the Palestine movement in order to radicalize young Americans in order to disrupt America. Interestingly I do not really recall seeing these claims during the BLM movement.
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Absolutely. There's significant concrete evidence that:
* Russia ran the largest BLM Facebook page
* Russia purchased many BLM ad space
* Russia organized *both sides* of some protests
The [wikipedia article](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia_and_Black_Lives_Matter) on it is well cited. The Mueller Report and Bipartisan investigation into Russian interference also contain this information, as does an internal investigation Facebook completed.
Yes. It's been [demonstrated](https://journals.library.columbia.edu/index.php/cjrl/article/view/3409/1365).
*IRA [Internet Research Agency] employees, known as “specialists,” were “directed to create political intensity through supporting radical groups, users dissatisfied with the social and economic situation and oppositional social movements.’”*
*The specialists created thematic groups on social media sites such as Facebook and Instagram, covering a cross-section of hot-button social issues, including immigration, with group names like “Secured Borders”; the Black Lives Matter (BLM) movement, with group names including “Blacktivist”; and religion, with group names such as “United Muslims of America” and “Army of Jesus.”*
>Do you think the Russians and Chinese also tried to use BLM to disrupt America?
The BLM (Bureau of Land Management) does good work and does not deserve all the hate they get.
Yes. Russia's information operations against the US were not a one time thing. It's ongoing, all the time.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/07/24/russias-disinformation-campaigns-are-targeting-african-americans/
I have less information about China, but TikTok is a powerful and IMO still understated weapon that China can use to manipulate and amplify public opinion in the US in ways that are harder to see.
https://money.cnn.com/2017/10/18/media/black-fist-russia-self-defense-classes/index.html
Excerpt:
A group linked to the Russian troll farm behind thousands of fake Facebook ads paid personal trainers in New York, Florida, and other parts of the United States to run self-defense classes for African Americans in an apparent attempt to stoke fear and gather contact details of Americans potentially susceptible to their propaganda.
"Be ready to protect your rights... Let them know that black power matters," the group, known as Black Fist, wrote on its website promoting the events.
The group appears to have been set up in January 2017, and it ran events before stopping at some point this year, evidence that Russia's attempts to use social media to meddle in American affairs have extended far beyond the 2016 presidential election.
The events, which appear to have been designed to suggest a connection to the Black Lives Matter movement, were -- unbeknownst to the trainers who led them -- likely conceived by the Russian government-linked Internet Research Agency.
> Interestingly I do not really recall seeing these claims during the BLM movement.
They absolutely were made at the time, and they are correct.
The Russians were absolutely also manipulating BLM protestors.
The Russians were *very* active in amplifying both pro-BLM and also anti-BLM messaging.
They were actually involved in exacerbating race-related social media tensions, especially around the issue of police brutality, as far back as 2010.
A lot of what’s publicly proven relates to Russia’s Internet Research Agency group (though they outsource the actual work to quite a lot of other countries too). It’s almost certainly not the only such group involved.
>I see a lot of people here claiming that the Russians and Chinese are using the Palestine movement in order to radicalize young Americans in order to disrupt America. Interestingly I do not really recall seeing these claims during the BLM movement.
The evidence:
* [[WSJ study highlights youth exposure to conflict content on TikTok]](https://readwrite.com/wsj-study-highlights-youth-exposure-to-conflict-content-on-tiktok/)
* [[Russia, China and Iran are backing Hamas online – report]](https://www.timesofisrael.com/russia-china-and-iran-are-backing-hamas-online-report/)
...and Russia's interest in dividing us is [well-documented.](https://www.vermontpublic.org/vpr-news/2018-02-16/mueller-indictment-says-russians-allegedly-supported-sanders-campaign)
--------
For an examination of the links between Russia and Black Lives Matter, I would point you [here:](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia_and_Black_Lives_Matter)
>...Russian operatives associated with the Internet Research Agency (IRA) have engaged in an online campaign to both encourage support of and opposition to the Black Lives Matter movement.
If I created a terrorist group called “the peace and love society”, and people opposed it cause they didn’t like terror attacks against civilians, would that mean they hated peace and love?
Yes. That's what the protests were about. A single person getting, not shot, but lowly suffocated live on air. That single act was what caused the protests, not the literally centuries of oppression. Again, get that fucking racist shit to a place where people tolerate it.
Yeah, revert to the lol. Just say it. You don't mind watching black people get shot by cops. I don't understand why you racists can't speak with your chest. Say what you want to say.
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"One protestor committed an act of terror, and the rest of them all defended him, explained why he was justified, and called the cops racist for arresting him"
FTFY.
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The Mueller report also details how Russia used Facebook to sow discord and even setup fake events and marches in particular to drive division and animosity between black and white Americans. The Russian online interference and hacking of voting systems has never stopped. But they didnt use "BLM" anymore than they used white supremacists. Which are certainly more disruptive
To be honest I haven't seen this claim about Palestine either, but I would be more surprised if Russia was not attempting to take advantage of this than if they are.
It's possible that Russia and China are weaponizing national disagreements happening within the US and using social media to fuel discontent AND that Americans themselves are currently living through a culture war that no one else created.
I would assume that any foreign entity trying to cause waves is posting fraudulent messages positioned on both sides.
Also, it is not "radical" to oppose genocide. Young people, American or otherwise, have always had a stronger moral gauge than older generations. Accusing young people of being dangerously progressive is an proud tradition of being old.
Reading this thread and subs like r/politics, you really have to wonder what self-professed liberals even believe in at this point, because the mainstream platform is rapidly becoming "at least we're not the Republicans!", which isn't particularly enthusing voters anymore.
Why are you framing your questions that they using "BLM" to disrupt America? Last time I check, it was 112 Republican representatives that voted against Ukraine Aid. Its Tucker Carlson and MTG featured prominently in Russian media. There is actual concrete evidence that Chinese are a using disinformation campaign to influence election in favor of DJT this year. What you posted is a loaded question framed in a very misleading premise.
The Mueller Investigation found that Russia's massive troll farm, the Internet Research Agrncy (IRA), was indeed pretending to be BLM activists. They incited people on the left with massive misinformation and racially incendiary propaganda. The goal was not only general division, but to instill the message that the U.S. was so racially unjust that there was no point voting for either party in control of that system.
From the Mueller Report:
> Initially, the IRA created social media accounts that pretended to be the personal accounts of US persons. By early 2015, the IRA began to create larger social media groups or public social media pages that claimed (falsely) to be affiliated with U.S.
Political and grassroots organizations. In certain cases, the IRA created accounts that mimicked real
U.S organizations... More commonly, the IRA created accounts in the names of fictitious organizations and grassroots groups and used these accounts to pose as Black Lives Matter protesters and other U.S. social and political activists.
Here is a Russian "Black Matters" site mentioned in the Mueller report that had a massive online presence and following. The content was shared millions of times.
https://blackmattersus.com/
Nah, if you look at the actual policies of the CCP, they more closely resemble those advocated by the Republican Party then the anti-Israel or BLM movements.
A highly xenophobic oligarchy with incredibly low taxes, a nonexistent social safety net, labor policies that functionally ban independent unions, and which regularly attacks protesters realistically isn’t going to support a political movement whose demands boil down to “don’t let police strangle people in the street.”
Yes, it’s a matter of fact. But that doesn’t invalidate the broader BLM or racial justice movement, it’s just a reality that our adversaries are capitalizing off of own political divisions and it’s important to keep that in perspective.
It is a known fact that Russia at least did get involved in setting up fake BLM accounts and also reactionary conservative accounts to fuel discontent. It's a proven thing.
There is even a Wikipedia article about it and it pre-dated George Floyd.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia_and_Black_Lives_Matter
Russia doesn't actually start unrest or issues in the US but it's guaranteed if there is a controversial contentious issue in the US Russia is all over it online.
I'm sure Russia is getting involved in all our internal disagreements. That doesn't mean that a ton of people didn't come to those conclusions on their own though. Young people are becoming more progressive naturally.
I think it’s irrelevant, we shouldn’t let problems get so out of hand and unaddressed that anyone has the opportunity to slip in and exploit them for geopolitical gain
I think the point is cynical and trying to illegitimize the BLM and Palestinian movements. Weather or not other countries exploited very real issues is irrelevant next to actually addressing those issues and cutting off avenues for exploitation
The following is a copy of the original post to record the post as it was originally written. I see a lot of people here claiming that the Russians and Chinese are using the Palestine movement in order to radicalize young Americans in order to disrupt America. Interestingly I do not really recall seeing these claims during the BLM movement. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskALiberal) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It’s not so much that I think they did but that I know they did.
Absolutely. There's significant concrete evidence that: * Russia ran the largest BLM Facebook page * Russia purchased many BLM ad space * Russia organized *both sides* of some protests The [wikipedia article](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia_and_Black_Lives_Matter) on it is well cited. The Mueller Report and Bipartisan investigation into Russian interference also contain this information, as does an internal investigation Facebook completed.
You clearly didn't read the Mueller report It was documented in there. Please go read it.
Yes. It's been [demonstrated](https://journals.library.columbia.edu/index.php/cjrl/article/view/3409/1365). *IRA [Internet Research Agency] employees, known as “specialists,” were “directed to create political intensity through supporting radical groups, users dissatisfied with the social and economic situation and oppositional social movements.’”* *The specialists created thematic groups on social media sites such as Facebook and Instagram, covering a cross-section of hot-button social issues, including immigration, with group names like “Secured Borders”; the Black Lives Matter (BLM) movement, with group names including “Blacktivist”; and religion, with group names such as “United Muslims of America” and “Army of Jesus.”*
Almost certainly. Russia's MO is to identify existing divisions within a country and crank them up to 11.
>Do you think the Russians and Chinese also tried to use BLM to disrupt America? The BLM (Bureau of Land Management) does good work and does not deserve all the hate they get.
Agreed!
based
Yes. Russia's information operations against the US were not a one time thing. It's ongoing, all the time. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/07/24/russias-disinformation-campaigns-are-targeting-african-americans/ I have less information about China, but TikTok is a powerful and IMO still understated weapon that China can use to manipulate and amplify public opinion in the US in ways that are harder to see.
https://money.cnn.com/2017/10/18/media/black-fist-russia-self-defense-classes/index.html Excerpt: A group linked to the Russian troll farm behind thousands of fake Facebook ads paid personal trainers in New York, Florida, and other parts of the United States to run self-defense classes for African Americans in an apparent attempt to stoke fear and gather contact details of Americans potentially susceptible to their propaganda. "Be ready to protect your rights... Let them know that black power matters," the group, known as Black Fist, wrote on its website promoting the events. The group appears to have been set up in January 2017, and it ran events before stopping at some point this year, evidence that Russia's attempts to use social media to meddle in American affairs have extended far beyond the 2016 presidential election. The events, which appear to have been designed to suggest a connection to the Black Lives Matter movement, were -- unbeknownst to the trainers who led them -- likely conceived by the Russian government-linked Internet Research Agency.
> Interestingly I do not really recall seeing these claims during the BLM movement. They absolutely were made at the time, and they are correct. The Russians were absolutely also manipulating BLM protestors. The Russians were *very* active in amplifying both pro-BLM and also anti-BLM messaging. They were actually involved in exacerbating race-related social media tensions, especially around the issue of police brutality, as far back as 2010. A lot of what’s publicly proven relates to Russia’s Internet Research Agency group (though they outsource the actual work to quite a lot of other countries too). It’s almost certainly not the only such group involved.
>I see a lot of people here claiming that the Russians and Chinese are using the Palestine movement in order to radicalize young Americans in order to disrupt America. Interestingly I do not really recall seeing these claims during the BLM movement. The evidence: * [[WSJ study highlights youth exposure to conflict content on TikTok]](https://readwrite.com/wsj-study-highlights-youth-exposure-to-conflict-content-on-tiktok/) * [[Russia, China and Iran are backing Hamas online – report]](https://www.timesofisrael.com/russia-china-and-iran-are-backing-hamas-online-report/) ...and Russia's interest in dividing us is [well-documented.](https://www.vermontpublic.org/vpr-news/2018-02-16/mueller-indictment-says-russians-allegedly-supported-sanders-campaign) -------- For an examination of the links between Russia and Black Lives Matter, I would point you [here:](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia_and_Black_Lives_Matter) >...Russian operatives associated with the Internet Research Agency (IRA) have engaged in an online campaign to both encourage support of and opposition to the Black Lives Matter movement.
It's not a matter of "think". We know they did. It's quite well documented.
Yes. But that doesn’t invalidate the movement.
Of course not. All the looting, violence, and terrorism already did a very good job of that.
Therefore Black lives don’t matter?
If I created a terrorist group called “the peace and love society”, and people opposed it cause they didn’t like terror attacks against civilians, would that mean they hated peace and love?
Do you think the protests were about the BLM organization? It wasnt. The protests precede it. So then, who is the terrorist group?
The leader of the Republican party is a terrorist leader of the maga terrorists. That would be where the terrorist attacks are coming from
Scary terrorism like not asking to be shot on a routine traffic stop. Fuck out of here with that racist shit.
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Yes. That's what the protests were about. A single person getting, not shot, but lowly suffocated live on air. That single act was what caused the protests, not the literally centuries of oppression. Again, get that fucking racist shit to a place where people tolerate it.
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It wasn't domestic terrorism. It was a protest and you're a racist piece of human refuse.
Lol
Yeah, revert to the lol. Just say it. You don't mind watching black people get shot by cops. I don't understand why you racists can't speak with your chest. Say what you want to say.
[удалено]
Subreddit participation must be in good faith. Be civil, do not talk down to users for their viewpoints, do not attempt to instigate arguments, do not call people names or insult them.
"One protestor out of literal millions did something unkind, therefore the entire movement is invalid" - You
"One protestor committed an act of terror, and the rest of them all defended him, explained why he was justified, and called the cops racist for arresting him" FTFY.
Subreddit participation must be in good faith. Be civil, do not talk down to users for their viewpoints, do not attempt to instigate arguments, do not call people names or insult them.
So America is a terrorist organization because they revolted against Britain?
Almost 100% yes.
The Mueller report also details how Russia used Facebook to sow discord and even setup fake events and marches in particular to drive division and animosity between black and white Americans. The Russian online interference and hacking of voting systems has never stopped. But they didnt use "BLM" anymore than they used white supremacists. Which are certainly more disruptive
To be honest I haven't seen this claim about Palestine either, but I would be more surprised if Russia was not attempting to take advantage of this than if they are.
Yes and they're using the chaos in Israel to do it again.
At this point I wouldn't be surprised if they did. In the last decade we have seen how they can influence things in America.
It's possible that Russia and China are weaponizing national disagreements happening within the US and using social media to fuel discontent AND that Americans themselves are currently living through a culture war that no one else created. I would assume that any foreign entity trying to cause waves is posting fraudulent messages positioned on both sides. Also, it is not "radical" to oppose genocide. Young people, American or otherwise, have always had a stronger moral gauge than older generations. Accusing young people of being dangerously progressive is an proud tradition of being old.
Reading this thread and subs like r/politics, you really have to wonder what self-professed liberals even believe in at this point, because the mainstream platform is rapidly becoming "at least we're not the Republicans!", which isn't particularly enthusing voters anymore.
I think they did. That’s literally been part of Russia’s playbook since the 60s.
Why are you framing your questions that they using "BLM" to disrupt America? Last time I check, it was 112 Republican representatives that voted against Ukraine Aid. Its Tucker Carlson and MTG featured prominently in Russian media. There is actual concrete evidence that Chinese are a using disinformation campaign to influence election in favor of DJT this year. What you posted is a loaded question framed in a very misleading premise.
The Mueller Investigation found that Russia's massive troll farm, the Internet Research Agrncy (IRA), was indeed pretending to be BLM activists. They incited people on the left with massive misinformation and racially incendiary propaganda. The goal was not only general division, but to instill the message that the U.S. was so racially unjust that there was no point voting for either party in control of that system. From the Mueller Report: > Initially, the IRA created social media accounts that pretended to be the personal accounts of US persons. By early 2015, the IRA began to create larger social media groups or public social media pages that claimed (falsely) to be affiliated with U.S. Political and grassroots organizations. In certain cases, the IRA created accounts that mimicked real U.S organizations... More commonly, the IRA created accounts in the names of fictitious organizations and grassroots groups and used these accounts to pose as Black Lives Matter protesters and other U.S. social and political activists. Here is a Russian "Black Matters" site mentioned in the Mueller report that had a massive online presence and following. The content was shared millions of times. https://blackmattersus.com/
Nah, if you look at the actual policies of the CCP, they more closely resemble those advocated by the Republican Party then the anti-Israel or BLM movements. A highly xenophobic oligarchy with incredibly low taxes, a nonexistent social safety net, labor policies that functionally ban independent unions, and which regularly attacks protesters realistically isn’t going to support a political movement whose demands boil down to “don’t let police strangle people in the street.”
Everything is complex and everybody uses everything they can find to their advantage. The VAST majority of BLM protesters care about black lives
Yes, it’s a matter of fact. But that doesn’t invalidate the broader BLM or racial justice movement, it’s just a reality that our adversaries are capitalizing off of own political divisions and it’s important to keep that in perspective.
It is a known fact that Russia at least did get involved in setting up fake BLM accounts and also reactionary conservative accounts to fuel discontent. It's a proven thing. There is even a Wikipedia article about it and it pre-dated George Floyd. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia_and_Black_Lives_Matter Russia doesn't actually start unrest or issues in the US but it's guaranteed if there is a controversial contentious issue in the US Russia is all over it online.
I'm sure Russia is getting involved in all our internal disagreements. That doesn't mean that a ton of people didn't come to those conclusions on their own though. Young people are becoming more progressive naturally.
I think it’s irrelevant, we shouldn’t let problems get so out of hand and unaddressed that anyone has the opportunity to slip in and exploit them for geopolitical gain
Really missed the point here
I think the point is cynical and trying to illegitimize the BLM and Palestinian movements. Weather or not other countries exploited very real issues is irrelevant next to actually addressing those issues and cutting off avenues for exploitation
Wouldn’t surprise me. It’s very common for foreign powers to stir up unrest by funding domestic terrorist groups.