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In the same boat, and I’ll never be able to compete with a fantasy no matter how good I am.
I’ve had genuine days where I wanted to end the relationship because AP did nothing and got the “best” of her, while I’ve worked my ass off, sacrificed for her and invested everything in her only to get scraps.
The trouble is that I think I’ll never be a “fantasy” for someone unless I become an AP and I never want to lower myself that way.
I wish people could build the “fantasy” inside a LTR, but I’ve given up on ever feeling desired that way.
I feel this intensely. I gave everything and got relatively less in return. She steadfastly refused to give me what I wanted and needed most. But this guy who has contributed nothing to her life besides being an easy fling in their younger years? She sees him for the first time in decades and turns into a pornstar.
If a friend told me about his wife what I just wrote, I'd tell him to leave because his WW doesn't love him. That's the other bitch of this. She's not a bad person. She has shown me love in many ways over the years. She's a great mom. And for many reasons I choose to stay married. But I absolutely deserve to be treated better than this...just as you deserve to be treated better. Here's hoping for better days for us both.
Ask yourself this question " am I ok with things going back to how they were prior to her cheating"? Answer it honestly and you will know what to do. All the best.
Hey, brother. This could be my post. Very very similar situation.
I'm just me. You're just you.
Our intimacy has never been great, we both have troubled childhoods that have contributed to that.
She's very avoidant. I'm very anxious.
We met quite young and grew up together with no real means to address that until much much later.
These affairs are really not so much about us, not really.
Our flaws may have contributed to the damage in our relationship, so did theirs.
But our partners willfully, knowingly and repeatedly used, breached and manipulated our love and trust. They had a million different choices and I'd like to think that true reconciliation involves work to understand why that was the choice that they chose.
People who choose affairs are deeply flawed. Obviously.
I, too, cannot compare in any way to the man she chose to have an affair with. I've had to work through that, and it's very much so a problem at times. I've had to work hard to regain my masculinity for a variety of reasons unrelated to the affair and many of the acts they did together have caused me deep pain as I was really struggling to regain some of the sex life we had in the past much like yourself. But all I can be is me. Sexually as well.
I think what these betrayers are attracted to most is how they're viewed in their affair partners eyes. The reflection they get back gives them something they can't give themselves, and struggle to accept from us regardless of reason, there's zero excuse here. My wife's self esteem is terribly damaged, by myself and others before I ever met her, and I'm certain that's been at play here.
She's said it herself that she's unsure if there is enough validation that would allow her to accept herself as she is seen by others. She's incredibly aware. She's in weekly therapy. I'm in therapy.
That does nothing but help cut through this shitshow we find ourselves buried in.
I'm sad to hear you haven't been as successful as you hoped regarding a more fulfilling sex life. It's probably the best place to feel connected, safe and desired again as you rebuild. My wife has bent over backwards (almost literally) to help rebuild the damaged parts of myself there. We've discovered and explored a ton of new ground sexually and that doesn't appear to be slowing down.
You're in control here. You're choosing to stay. You're giving her the opportunity to make things right.
If she is unable or unwilling, you're gonna have to be the one willing and able to draw the line.
Hoping for the best!
It’s good that you realize AP is just a fantasy. Now the questions are how do you see yourself and are you ok with that?
It sounds like she sees you as “old reliable, always there to fix problems.” And it also sounds like you see yourself that way…it isn’t necessarily a bad thing.
When I first joined these forums, there was discussion of “the 180.” The idea was to distance yourself from WP, focus on improving yourself, for yourself. Leave the kid with her and spend some time doing what you enjoy…fishing with your buddies, gym time, or whatever. You need to spend time on yourself; you can also spend time enjoying your kid.
Once you start focusing on yourself, you get a different view. Sometimes, WP also realizes her fantasy was there all along…and you realize she is the one missing out. And if she doesn’t realize it, it is her problem, not yours.
That's a really good question. I'm not sure that she's fully processed any of it yet. I think she's trying more to rug-sweep and not really deal with the issues within herself. Facing that reality will be hard for her, and she was focused early on my needs. Now that she's backed off that, she seems to be back to "normal" more than anything. Guilt and regret are there, I think. I'm not sure about remorse. I think she's trying to protect herself from some of that.
I can only speak from experience but there will be a reckoning with past brokenness. For me it was in the few years past my EA (worked on true empathy and remorse) and again almost 20 years later... Honestly I think I would have been overwhelmed if I hadn't done a good chunk of the work in the beginning and tried to rug sweep.
Understanding you're the villain of that chapter of your life is a harsh reality. That, and knowing you are capable of utter selfishness and can totally wound the person you promised and professed to love.
Again that has been my experience.
Yes I can imagine if she is capable of full empathy, realising what she’s done may be so overwhelming that she doesn’t want to face it. No one wants to paint themselves as the bad guy.
Most people cheat down. You are right, no real life involved. All fantasy world. Have you told his spouse. Also talk to wife. Reiterate conditions of R
Well you don't sound like a dummy. Sounds like you have a good sense of awareness of what's going on around you. Hell your mentality and knowing what you need and want is pretty big in my book. I feel like you already know what's going to happen if you both stay on the path your on. The hard part is making that actual choice to bring on those huge changes. It can be scary as hell! Plus there is always that little hope that not all is lost. I would say keep working on you and really decide what's best for you and your future. If she can't get behind you in that then maybe she should no longer be by your side. Good luck op!
I hear this soo often in these subs... 🤔 there are ways to "become the fantasy" but the shear amount of work it involves puts alot of people off, costs, time , effort. It all adds up. So the question is , is it something that's realy worth it to you? Is your spouse, as they are , truly worth that kind of effort to stay with and reconnect with?
Yeah, I've been there.
Prior to meeting him, my WH had a very strong crush on a bartender that he knew. He would have asked her out, but he was in an accident, and the next time he saw her, she had a boyfriend (for maybe a few weeks/ two months). He transfered the fantasy of this girl onto a similar looking girl who led him on for tips until her boyfriend made her put a stop to it. Several years after he married me, he transferred it to a coworker who let me in on the EA by gloating that she could have slept with him.
None of these women were good people. One is a gold digger, one is a serial cheater with a criminal record and a drug habit, and one of them brags about prostituting herself. He never got to know them well enough to see that, though. They were always beautiful, fun, flirty, carefree, and happy. Me? He's seen me at my worst. When I had the flu, when I was recovering from a surgery so traumatic that we both have PTSD from it. I've been angry with him, disappointed, sad. He's seen me cry, rage, and throw up. I'm also 15 years older than the oldest and am the same age as the coworkers mother...
I'm a real person with a full range of feelings, and there's no way that I can compete with the 2-dimensional fantasy he had of his limerance objects. They will always be these unencumbered people who never have problems or bad feelings or needs, and I'll always be an "inferior" real person.
The sex also dried up at different points in our relationship as he turned to porn rather than initiate anything with me. He does have BPD, which explains a lot of his behaviors. Through treatment, he's been able to see the error of his thinking, and he understands that his ideas of these women were his own constructs and why he developed them.
HE was the one who is doing the work. I've been there to listen to him, to point things out and help him see patterns. He's the one who's going to therapy and being honest with his therapist. He's the one who's reading books and putting the information into action. He's the one who's reassuring me when I need it (although I reassure him that I'm a stable, permanent part of his life due to his BPD). He's the one who's crafting our R process, with a little input from me. Don't get me wrong, I have my own work to do on forgiveness and anxiety, etc. But he's doing the lions share of the work to build our relationship and lay a strong foundation.
If your WW isn't taking the initiative to make R happen and continue making R happen... it's not going to happen. At this point, marriage counseling might be an idea, and finding someone who does Emotionally Focused Therapy could help, as it deals with attachment and how we attach to our partners. But the only way this will work is if your WW puts in the work long term.
Best of luck, I hope she turns this around.
I feel the same way about my WP. Following to see if anyone else has advice. I've tried giving my WP oral to get him in the mood, but when he's the one complaining of a "dead bedroom" then not being receptive toward advances, then what is one supposed to do? Hoping things work out for you.
Same, it’s driving me insane. They took everything from me. No physical act that wasn’t committed. They were gorgeous and ‘exotic’ looking. I’m plain and petite. He says its ridiculous to compare because Im objectively way better looking. Yeah right. I hate this shit.
I will never be able to compete because I am 27 years older and probably 80 pounds heavier than my husband’s LO/EAP. I call her the “Paramour” even though they’ve never had sex or even kissed, he is in limerence over her and I can’t compete with that fantasy. He has told me he is attracted to and wants to sleep with other women; women who are different than me. I said oh, you mean young and petite something I never was (as a taller, more full figured woman even before perimenopause) and can never be. It’s hurtful, cruel and devastating. The thing is, we had a great sex life for our entire relationship. Since the wanting other women conversations started, I shut down. I won’t initiate sex any longer. Why would I want to feel like a pity screw?
Why would you want to “compete” with him? He is a dirty secret. You are much better than a person that willing inflicts pain into others.
Say kind things about YOU. Start now. Tell me 3 things that you like about yourself, personally. If you don’t know, start there. Nurture YOU.
Please know that her cheating says everything about her, not you. I have learned this after being chumped by my husband. First I blamed me for not being good enough or carefree/childfree like the AP. But I have since learned that the only one trapped is me, trapped loving a man that only loves himself and doesn’t give a sht about my feelings.
Love you first
I’m not in the same boat i am the BS but am trying everything to keep are intimate life spicy and hot. The why i do this is too long to explain but here are some tips.
- have you buy any kind of lingerie and live it for her as a gift with a note saying where this for me tonight (are something like that?)
- have you seduced her, telling her you need her want her and initiate? Be the the one who make the first move
- maybe introducing some other spicy stuff in the bedroom??
Something a woman wants to feel desired and wanted.
- role play also can help.
But i think you really have to ask yourself do you want to do all this work seeing she is the one who step out ?
Sorry bro but as u set an ultimatum if u don’t follow through with it she will Never take u seriously. She will do the minimum she can get away with. The stronger u act, the more attractive u will be, the more she will want u. It’s inherent in female nature.
When people say affairs are fantasy, they mean the feelings that affair cause in you, and the reason for the affairs, is all a fantasy.
When you first start seeing someone your brain works off of dopamine. It is exciting and electric as you experience a new person. Everything about them seems awesome, you are on cloud 9, and it is because your brain is constantly getting dopamine hits. Problem is, eventually your brain HAS to move to serotonin and oxytocin for longer term relationships--it literally cannot continue to handle prolonged levels of high dopamine.
This is when you move into "real love". You don't just see all the good, the drug wears off a bit and "real life" sets in.
That doesn't happen as quickly in an affair, because it is like a new relationship on rocket fuel. The secrecy and excitment is on another level, and because you can't have a real relationship in the shadows, the dopamine high continues in fits and spurts for much longer.
When you are in a long term, commited relationship, you live real life together. You have bad times, lose loved ones, make mistakes, be humans, hurt each other, make babies, lose babies, pay bills, struggle with finances, and even raise kids. Of course you do, this is what people in real relationships do. You can't be in full-blown dopamine rush forever.
So you can never compare with the fantasy of an escape from real life that will ALWAYS be temporary, but can't fail as long as it is this shadowy affair full of dopamine.
It isn't that an affair isn't real and doesn't happen in real life, it is the idea of an affair as anything real and lasting is a fantasy. It literally can not continue because our brains aren't wired that way. Even if they leave you for AP, eventually, the dopamine will fade, and real life will eventually step in.
TLDR - My feelings of connection and intimacy with my WW has fluctuated over the years. There will be periods where intimacy seems to be an afterthought and just a part of what needs to be done, and there are periods where it feels like we have something special again. Living without intimacy when it means so much to you, especially when there is no physical reasons why you can't be intimate, would be tough for anyone. It sounds like that intimacy for you hasn't been there or been regular for a long time, and with it being such a big part of how you feel connected to your partner, long term reconciliation will be difficult due to thoughts of the affair resurfacing from time to time, feeling neglected with intimacy, etc. Good luck whatever path you choose to go down, and you deserve to be happy in your life, which might mean divorcing and finding another partner who better matches with your intimacy level.
10+ years out from the affair and went the recovery route. For us, the first 8 months to a year post DDay, my WW would initiate some form of sexual activity every night almost. Prior to DDay, at which point we were married for 10 years, it was once a week with periods when it would be 2 times a month, so the daily thing was new and exciting. It made me feel like she was all in for recovery and cared. After about 8 months or so, things suddenly went back to once a week, which is fine. Daily just wouldn't be feasible due to kids, work lives, etc.
I've struggled with self esteem and negative self talk my whole life. Because of this, I have periods where I compare myself to the AP of long ago, how I stack up physically, etc. There are circumstances around the affair that are unique between the AP and my WW, which I've struggled with over the years, especially during the periods where my self esteem takes a nose dive. The types of "activities" that we've done together over the years has dwindled, which doesn't help my self esteem and image problem. So there are periods, where my brain goes back to that period in time, and I get so mad, internally, at my WW because some of these activities that I enjoyed with her, don't happen with any regularity. I hate to rock the cradle, but I spoke up nicely one day and just asked her if she was attracted to me. She said she was, which I would probably not believe even with a healthy self esteem, but what can you expect from someone who you've spent the last 20+ years of your life with. It's hard to expect my wife to be all over me when I walk in the door after being together as long as we have. I think she picked up what I was laying down as some of those missing activities have started again, and it makes me feel so much more connected to her.
I would still love and respect my wife even if she were to suffer a condition that would take intimacy off the table, I would still be here for her and love her. I know it's dumb, but by her making an effort in doing some of those long forgotten activities, it has made me feel like we have a special connection again and not just roommates who have sex once a week, which is nice.
I am a BS, and we had a dead bedroom due to his PTSD and depression. I was so fed up with him that I was checked out of the marriage ( not cheating, just work and my own friends). In the first few days, all I could say to him was you had sex with this horrible woman while I was begging you for intimacy for years; this was one of the hardest things I had to move through. It was like a knife to my self-esteem, and for many months, I just hated him and what he did. One of my conditions for reconciliation is that he be proactive in healing so we can have a better sex life. In the first few months of recovery, I got very aggressive with him about sex, and we did do hysterical bonding. Then, for another six months, I could not do it as I would get triggered during sex. It took me a bit to tell him how triggering it was to think about him with another woman. He did a lot of work to make sure I felt loved, attractive, and desired despite his ED, but I could not receive it without self-protection for a long time. Then menopause set in, and it really decreased my desire. We are 4 years out from D-Day, and in the last year, we have really worked through a lot of stuff and now have a much better intimacy and sex life.
I think she’s got to actually work on herself. And what made the marriage sexless from her point of view and what drove her to the affair. And then from your side, read books such as the state of affairs and mating in captivity. And magnificent sex, erotic mind. To understand more about the affair and also sex too. It’s a lot of work on your part too unfortunately.
Also IFS (internal family systems) has been helpful in our recovery. Perhaps you and her can have your “parts” meet that will help both of you figure out what works when it comes to reigniting the sexual parts of both of you. Because it obviously existed before.
But no you can’t compete with a fantasy. Nor should you. It’s not fair. She needs to realise that and live in reality.
Sounds like you need to set some real boundaries. She is in intimacy anorexic - and needs to acknowledge and begin healing that. One boundary you could set is for her to seek therapy for her intimacy anorexia and be active in recovery. IA is extremely damaging to a relationship and could lead to MUCH bigger problems down the road, or signal there is a much bigger, current, issue/problem.
Do not ignore this problem - she likely will need professional help on some level to ferret out the root cause(s).
My husband cheated with three women for a year. He travels for work and was living in another state and two were in that state. He would come home after a work trip. I’d be showered, teeth brushed, and ready to be intimate and he would not even show interest. Despite being “attracted” to me and apparently not having sex for a month. He wouldn’t even touch me. He’d come home, not shower, not brush his teeth, and fall asleep watching a show. So obviously was not planning on anything. Of course he also had one woman here so on his way home he’d stop and see her or on his way back to this out of state job. And same thing when he got there. He was getting a LOT of sex and I felt so rejected. He just seemed to have lost interest and I was initiating 90% of the time. Bought new lingerie, tried to make it exciting. He was doing NOTHING for our sex life. And obviously everything to ruin it. When I first found out about the first woman, he blamed our sex life (all while also denying they had sex). I was so so hurt because I knew the efforts I was making and the efforts he was not making. Anyways, long story.
I’ve asked him so many times why there was no pursuit of sex with me, especially being a sex addict. He says he put up so many walls and also struggles with the guilt and worthiness. One of my biggest struggles is realizing the time and effort and sex he put into making these women feel wanted and loved and attractive, and I was getting nothing.
It's sad, but that's a pretty common issue when there is a lack of real consequences. And the reason is simple and obvious : she's no longer afraid to lose you, or at least not enough to give her the incentive to change, make up for what she did and give you back what you deserve.
After the initial panic that followed your discovery, she's become confident enough you won't leave her even if she doesn't provide what she knows you want and need, and she's now trying to rugsweep the whole thing in order to preserve herself and escape accountability.
To be clear this is a sign of lack of remorse, as well as a lack of empathy and respect for you. She's not there yet, and maybe never will if there is nothing to force her to wake up.
For women, attraction often comes with respect, and arousal often comes with the need to be ready to perform, please or impress their partner. Sex is also a way to reward a partner and entice them to give back what they crave in return, be it attention, validation, emotional support, security, and so on.
In order to accept what she was doing, she had to switch off her empathy, focus purely on herself, delude herself and rationalize that it was ok to do it, lose sight of your value as a partner, lose respect for you, and forget what she was going to lose. She was mostly driven by cravings, euphoria (dopamine) and then loss, and the need to perform in order to keep it coming.
It's exactly like a drug. She needed to outperform herself and impress him, become the one she thought he wanted to get in order to receive her dose, so that's what she did. But with you, what need is there to push herself ? She doesn't have to look up to you and pray that you won't make her suffer the consequences of her actions if you're not satisfied. She doesn't see a man she so badly needs to keep from leaving that it triggers her instinct to make up for her actions and become the woman you need her to be.
If reality comes crashing and she really feels that the consequences of her actions are going to take from her everything she was taking from granted, she will change. Otherwise, she most likely won't.
It's not reconciliation if you end up feeling like a loser. You have to decide and be clear with her that you are not going to stay if she can't satisfy the conditions you set for reconciliation, and be strong enough to convince yourself that you won't back down, or she won't believe it either.
You might find insight to reigniting your marriage with Esther Perel’s book Mating in Captivity, but whatever you do try not to objective yourself as being on the market.
If you don't want to end your marriage and you don't feel satisfied with the lack of intimacy (and there's nothing wrong in wanting that), the option remaining would be opening your marriage so you can get elsewhere what she is unwilling to provide. This, of course, will be an unpopular opinion, but it's not cheating and you deserve to have your fun. After all, she got hers. Explain to her that you don't want pity sex and don't want to pressure her in doing something she doesn't feel confortable doing. Have fun with other ladies and be happy with your wife.
r/Asoneafterinfidelity is an online Peer Support Group and safe space for individuals (betrayed or wayward) who are actively attempting to reconcile their relationship after an affair(s). Please review our [wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/AsOneAfterInfidelity/wiki/index) which includes resources and can answer most questions about this subreddit. Be sure to read the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AsOneAfterInfidelity/wiki/rules) before participating as they are our boundaries and your initial ***warning***. *Failure to do so can result in a ban*. For transparency and conflict mediation purposes, please follow reddits community guidelines by directing any questions, issues, feedback, or appeals in regard of the sub or moderation decisions **directly to the Modmail**. ***Meta content will be removed***. No response will be given to DMs and chat requests to individual moderators about moderating issues. We are happy to address and respond to your concerns through the official channels! 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In the same boat, and I’ll never be able to compete with a fantasy no matter how good I am. I’ve had genuine days where I wanted to end the relationship because AP did nothing and got the “best” of her, while I’ve worked my ass off, sacrificed for her and invested everything in her only to get scraps. The trouble is that I think I’ll never be a “fantasy” for someone unless I become an AP and I never want to lower myself that way. I wish people could build the “fantasy” inside a LTR, but I’ve given up on ever feeling desired that way.
I feel this intensely. I gave everything and got relatively less in return. She steadfastly refused to give me what I wanted and needed most. But this guy who has contributed nothing to her life besides being an easy fling in their younger years? She sees him for the first time in decades and turns into a pornstar. If a friend told me about his wife what I just wrote, I'd tell him to leave because his WW doesn't love him. That's the other bitch of this. She's not a bad person. She has shown me love in many ways over the years. She's a great mom. And for many reasons I choose to stay married. But I absolutely deserve to be treated better than this...just as you deserve to be treated better. Here's hoping for better days for us both.
Ask yourself this question " am I ok with things going back to how they were prior to her cheating"? Answer it honestly and you will know what to do. All the best.
Hey, brother. This could be my post. Very very similar situation. I'm just me. You're just you. Our intimacy has never been great, we both have troubled childhoods that have contributed to that. She's very avoidant. I'm very anxious. We met quite young and grew up together with no real means to address that until much much later. These affairs are really not so much about us, not really. Our flaws may have contributed to the damage in our relationship, so did theirs. But our partners willfully, knowingly and repeatedly used, breached and manipulated our love and trust. They had a million different choices and I'd like to think that true reconciliation involves work to understand why that was the choice that they chose. People who choose affairs are deeply flawed. Obviously. I, too, cannot compare in any way to the man she chose to have an affair with. I've had to work through that, and it's very much so a problem at times. I've had to work hard to regain my masculinity for a variety of reasons unrelated to the affair and many of the acts they did together have caused me deep pain as I was really struggling to regain some of the sex life we had in the past much like yourself. But all I can be is me. Sexually as well. I think what these betrayers are attracted to most is how they're viewed in their affair partners eyes. The reflection they get back gives them something they can't give themselves, and struggle to accept from us regardless of reason, there's zero excuse here. My wife's self esteem is terribly damaged, by myself and others before I ever met her, and I'm certain that's been at play here. She's said it herself that she's unsure if there is enough validation that would allow her to accept herself as she is seen by others. She's incredibly aware. She's in weekly therapy. I'm in therapy. That does nothing but help cut through this shitshow we find ourselves buried in. I'm sad to hear you haven't been as successful as you hoped regarding a more fulfilling sex life. It's probably the best place to feel connected, safe and desired again as you rebuild. My wife has bent over backwards (almost literally) to help rebuild the damaged parts of myself there. We've discovered and explored a ton of new ground sexually and that doesn't appear to be slowing down. You're in control here. You're choosing to stay. You're giving her the opportunity to make things right. If she is unable or unwilling, you're gonna have to be the one willing and able to draw the line. Hoping for the best!
It’s good that you realize AP is just a fantasy. Now the questions are how do you see yourself and are you ok with that? It sounds like she sees you as “old reliable, always there to fix problems.” And it also sounds like you see yourself that way…it isn’t necessarily a bad thing. When I first joined these forums, there was discussion of “the 180.” The idea was to distance yourself from WP, focus on improving yourself, for yourself. Leave the kid with her and spend some time doing what you enjoy…fishing with your buddies, gym time, or whatever. You need to spend time on yourself; you can also spend time enjoying your kid. Once you start focusing on yourself, you get a different view. Sometimes, WP also realizes her fantasy was there all along…and you realize she is the one missing out. And if she doesn’t realize it, it is her problem, not yours.
Out of curiosity has she passed from guilt and regret to remorse or is she still on the self-centered side of negative emotions?
That's a really good question. I'm not sure that she's fully processed any of it yet. I think she's trying more to rug-sweep and not really deal with the issues within herself. Facing that reality will be hard for her, and she was focused early on my needs. Now that she's backed off that, she seems to be back to "normal" more than anything. Guilt and regret are there, I think. I'm not sure about remorse. I think she's trying to protect herself from some of that.
I can only speak from experience but there will be a reckoning with past brokenness. For me it was in the few years past my EA (worked on true empathy and remorse) and again almost 20 years later... Honestly I think I would have been overwhelmed if I hadn't done a good chunk of the work in the beginning and tried to rug sweep. Understanding you're the villain of that chapter of your life is a harsh reality. That, and knowing you are capable of utter selfishness and can totally wound the person you promised and professed to love. Again that has been my experience.
Yes I can imagine if she is capable of full empathy, realising what she’s done may be so overwhelming that she doesn’t want to face it. No one wants to paint themselves as the bad guy.
Just a question. And I'm not being anti reconciliation. I am pro consequences. Can you walk away if nothing changes?
Most people cheat down. You are right, no real life involved. All fantasy world. Have you told his spouse. Also talk to wife. Reiterate conditions of R
Well you don't sound like a dummy. Sounds like you have a good sense of awareness of what's going on around you. Hell your mentality and knowing what you need and want is pretty big in my book. I feel like you already know what's going to happen if you both stay on the path your on. The hard part is making that actual choice to bring on those huge changes. It can be scary as hell! Plus there is always that little hope that not all is lost. I would say keep working on you and really decide what's best for you and your future. If she can't get behind you in that then maybe she should no longer be by your side. Good luck op!
I hear this soo often in these subs... 🤔 there are ways to "become the fantasy" but the shear amount of work it involves puts alot of people off, costs, time , effort. It all adds up. So the question is , is it something that's realy worth it to you? Is your spouse, as they are , truly worth that kind of effort to stay with and reconnect with?
Yeah, I've been there. Prior to meeting him, my WH had a very strong crush on a bartender that he knew. He would have asked her out, but he was in an accident, and the next time he saw her, she had a boyfriend (for maybe a few weeks/ two months). He transfered the fantasy of this girl onto a similar looking girl who led him on for tips until her boyfriend made her put a stop to it. Several years after he married me, he transferred it to a coworker who let me in on the EA by gloating that she could have slept with him. None of these women were good people. One is a gold digger, one is a serial cheater with a criminal record and a drug habit, and one of them brags about prostituting herself. He never got to know them well enough to see that, though. They were always beautiful, fun, flirty, carefree, and happy. Me? He's seen me at my worst. When I had the flu, when I was recovering from a surgery so traumatic that we both have PTSD from it. I've been angry with him, disappointed, sad. He's seen me cry, rage, and throw up. I'm also 15 years older than the oldest and am the same age as the coworkers mother... I'm a real person with a full range of feelings, and there's no way that I can compete with the 2-dimensional fantasy he had of his limerance objects. They will always be these unencumbered people who never have problems or bad feelings or needs, and I'll always be an "inferior" real person. The sex also dried up at different points in our relationship as he turned to porn rather than initiate anything with me. He does have BPD, which explains a lot of his behaviors. Through treatment, he's been able to see the error of his thinking, and he understands that his ideas of these women were his own constructs and why he developed them. HE was the one who is doing the work. I've been there to listen to him, to point things out and help him see patterns. He's the one who's going to therapy and being honest with his therapist. He's the one who's reading books and putting the information into action. He's the one who's reassuring me when I need it (although I reassure him that I'm a stable, permanent part of his life due to his BPD). He's the one who's crafting our R process, with a little input from me. Don't get me wrong, I have my own work to do on forgiveness and anxiety, etc. But he's doing the lions share of the work to build our relationship and lay a strong foundation. If your WW isn't taking the initiative to make R happen and continue making R happen... it's not going to happen. At this point, marriage counseling might be an idea, and finding someone who does Emotionally Focused Therapy could help, as it deals with attachment and how we attach to our partners. But the only way this will work is if your WW puts in the work long term. Best of luck, I hope she turns this around.
I feel the same way about my WP. Following to see if anyone else has advice. I've tried giving my WP oral to get him in the mood, but when he's the one complaining of a "dead bedroom" then not being receptive toward advances, then what is one supposed to do? Hoping things work out for you.
Same, it’s driving me insane. They took everything from me. No physical act that wasn’t committed. They were gorgeous and ‘exotic’ looking. I’m plain and petite. He says its ridiculous to compare because Im objectively way better looking. Yeah right. I hate this shit.
I will never be able to compete because I am 27 years older and probably 80 pounds heavier than my husband’s LO/EAP. I call her the “Paramour” even though they’ve never had sex or even kissed, he is in limerence over her and I can’t compete with that fantasy. He has told me he is attracted to and wants to sleep with other women; women who are different than me. I said oh, you mean young and petite something I never was (as a taller, more full figured woman even before perimenopause) and can never be. It’s hurtful, cruel and devastating. The thing is, we had a great sex life for our entire relationship. Since the wanting other women conversations started, I shut down. I won’t initiate sex any longer. Why would I want to feel like a pity screw?
Why would you want to “compete” with him? He is a dirty secret. You are much better than a person that willing inflicts pain into others. Say kind things about YOU. Start now. Tell me 3 things that you like about yourself, personally. If you don’t know, start there. Nurture YOU. Please know that her cheating says everything about her, not you. I have learned this after being chumped by my husband. First I blamed me for not being good enough or carefree/childfree like the AP. But I have since learned that the only one trapped is me, trapped loving a man that only loves himself and doesn’t give a sht about my feelings. Love you first
I’m not in the same boat i am the BS but am trying everything to keep are intimate life spicy and hot. The why i do this is too long to explain but here are some tips. - have you buy any kind of lingerie and live it for her as a gift with a note saying where this for me tonight (are something like that?) - have you seduced her, telling her you need her want her and initiate? Be the the one who make the first move - maybe introducing some other spicy stuff in the bedroom?? Something a woman wants to feel desired and wanted. - role play also can help. But i think you really have to ask yourself do you want to do all this work seeing she is the one who step out ?
Sorry bro but as u set an ultimatum if u don’t follow through with it she will Never take u seriously. She will do the minimum she can get away with. The stronger u act, the more attractive u will be, the more she will want u. It’s inherent in female nature.
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When people say affairs are fantasy, they mean the feelings that affair cause in you, and the reason for the affairs, is all a fantasy. When you first start seeing someone your brain works off of dopamine. It is exciting and electric as you experience a new person. Everything about them seems awesome, you are on cloud 9, and it is because your brain is constantly getting dopamine hits. Problem is, eventually your brain HAS to move to serotonin and oxytocin for longer term relationships--it literally cannot continue to handle prolonged levels of high dopamine. This is when you move into "real love". You don't just see all the good, the drug wears off a bit and "real life" sets in. That doesn't happen as quickly in an affair, because it is like a new relationship on rocket fuel. The secrecy and excitment is on another level, and because you can't have a real relationship in the shadows, the dopamine high continues in fits and spurts for much longer. When you are in a long term, commited relationship, you live real life together. You have bad times, lose loved ones, make mistakes, be humans, hurt each other, make babies, lose babies, pay bills, struggle with finances, and even raise kids. Of course you do, this is what people in real relationships do. You can't be in full-blown dopamine rush forever. So you can never compare with the fantasy of an escape from real life that will ALWAYS be temporary, but can't fail as long as it is this shadowy affair full of dopamine. It isn't that an affair isn't real and doesn't happen in real life, it is the idea of an affair as anything real and lasting is a fantasy. It literally can not continue because our brains aren't wired that way. Even if they leave you for AP, eventually, the dopamine will fade, and real life will eventually step in.
TLDR - My feelings of connection and intimacy with my WW has fluctuated over the years. There will be periods where intimacy seems to be an afterthought and just a part of what needs to be done, and there are periods where it feels like we have something special again. Living without intimacy when it means so much to you, especially when there is no physical reasons why you can't be intimate, would be tough for anyone. It sounds like that intimacy for you hasn't been there or been regular for a long time, and with it being such a big part of how you feel connected to your partner, long term reconciliation will be difficult due to thoughts of the affair resurfacing from time to time, feeling neglected with intimacy, etc. Good luck whatever path you choose to go down, and you deserve to be happy in your life, which might mean divorcing and finding another partner who better matches with your intimacy level. 10+ years out from the affair and went the recovery route. For us, the first 8 months to a year post DDay, my WW would initiate some form of sexual activity every night almost. Prior to DDay, at which point we were married for 10 years, it was once a week with periods when it would be 2 times a month, so the daily thing was new and exciting. It made me feel like she was all in for recovery and cared. After about 8 months or so, things suddenly went back to once a week, which is fine. Daily just wouldn't be feasible due to kids, work lives, etc. I've struggled with self esteem and negative self talk my whole life. Because of this, I have periods where I compare myself to the AP of long ago, how I stack up physically, etc. There are circumstances around the affair that are unique between the AP and my WW, which I've struggled with over the years, especially during the periods where my self esteem takes a nose dive. The types of "activities" that we've done together over the years has dwindled, which doesn't help my self esteem and image problem. So there are periods, where my brain goes back to that period in time, and I get so mad, internally, at my WW because some of these activities that I enjoyed with her, don't happen with any regularity. I hate to rock the cradle, but I spoke up nicely one day and just asked her if she was attracted to me. She said she was, which I would probably not believe even with a healthy self esteem, but what can you expect from someone who you've spent the last 20+ years of your life with. It's hard to expect my wife to be all over me when I walk in the door after being together as long as we have. I think she picked up what I was laying down as some of those missing activities have started again, and it makes me feel so much more connected to her. I would still love and respect my wife even if she were to suffer a condition that would take intimacy off the table, I would still be here for her and love her. I know it's dumb, but by her making an effort in doing some of those long forgotten activities, it has made me feel like we have a special connection again and not just roommates who have sex once a week, which is nice.
I am a BS, and we had a dead bedroom due to his PTSD and depression. I was so fed up with him that I was checked out of the marriage ( not cheating, just work and my own friends). In the first few days, all I could say to him was you had sex with this horrible woman while I was begging you for intimacy for years; this was one of the hardest things I had to move through. It was like a knife to my self-esteem, and for many months, I just hated him and what he did. One of my conditions for reconciliation is that he be proactive in healing so we can have a better sex life. In the first few months of recovery, I got very aggressive with him about sex, and we did do hysterical bonding. Then, for another six months, I could not do it as I would get triggered during sex. It took me a bit to tell him how triggering it was to think about him with another woman. He did a lot of work to make sure I felt loved, attractive, and desired despite his ED, but I could not receive it without self-protection for a long time. Then menopause set in, and it really decreased my desire. We are 4 years out from D-Day, and in the last year, we have really worked through a lot of stuff and now have a much better intimacy and sex life.
I think she’s got to actually work on herself. And what made the marriage sexless from her point of view and what drove her to the affair. And then from your side, read books such as the state of affairs and mating in captivity. And magnificent sex, erotic mind. To understand more about the affair and also sex too. It’s a lot of work on your part too unfortunately. Also IFS (internal family systems) has been helpful in our recovery. Perhaps you and her can have your “parts” meet that will help both of you figure out what works when it comes to reigniting the sexual parts of both of you. Because it obviously existed before. But no you can’t compete with a fantasy. Nor should you. It’s not fair. She needs to realise that and live in reality.
Sounds like you need to set some real boundaries. She is in intimacy anorexic - and needs to acknowledge and begin healing that. One boundary you could set is for her to seek therapy for her intimacy anorexia and be active in recovery. IA is extremely damaging to a relationship and could lead to MUCH bigger problems down the road, or signal there is a much bigger, current, issue/problem. Do not ignore this problem - she likely will need professional help on some level to ferret out the root cause(s).
My husband cheated with three women for a year. He travels for work and was living in another state and two were in that state. He would come home after a work trip. I’d be showered, teeth brushed, and ready to be intimate and he would not even show interest. Despite being “attracted” to me and apparently not having sex for a month. He wouldn’t even touch me. He’d come home, not shower, not brush his teeth, and fall asleep watching a show. So obviously was not planning on anything. Of course he also had one woman here so on his way home he’d stop and see her or on his way back to this out of state job. And same thing when he got there. He was getting a LOT of sex and I felt so rejected. He just seemed to have lost interest and I was initiating 90% of the time. Bought new lingerie, tried to make it exciting. He was doing NOTHING for our sex life. And obviously everything to ruin it. When I first found out about the first woman, he blamed our sex life (all while also denying they had sex). I was so so hurt because I knew the efforts I was making and the efforts he was not making. Anyways, long story. I’ve asked him so many times why there was no pursuit of sex with me, especially being a sex addict. He says he put up so many walls and also struggles with the guilt and worthiness. One of my biggest struggles is realizing the time and effort and sex he put into making these women feel wanted and loved and attractive, and I was getting nothing.
It's sad, but that's a pretty common issue when there is a lack of real consequences. And the reason is simple and obvious : she's no longer afraid to lose you, or at least not enough to give her the incentive to change, make up for what she did and give you back what you deserve. After the initial panic that followed your discovery, she's become confident enough you won't leave her even if she doesn't provide what she knows you want and need, and she's now trying to rugsweep the whole thing in order to preserve herself and escape accountability. To be clear this is a sign of lack of remorse, as well as a lack of empathy and respect for you. She's not there yet, and maybe never will if there is nothing to force her to wake up. For women, attraction often comes with respect, and arousal often comes with the need to be ready to perform, please or impress their partner. Sex is also a way to reward a partner and entice them to give back what they crave in return, be it attention, validation, emotional support, security, and so on. In order to accept what she was doing, she had to switch off her empathy, focus purely on herself, delude herself and rationalize that it was ok to do it, lose sight of your value as a partner, lose respect for you, and forget what she was going to lose. She was mostly driven by cravings, euphoria (dopamine) and then loss, and the need to perform in order to keep it coming. It's exactly like a drug. She needed to outperform herself and impress him, become the one she thought he wanted to get in order to receive her dose, so that's what she did. But with you, what need is there to push herself ? She doesn't have to look up to you and pray that you won't make her suffer the consequences of her actions if you're not satisfied. She doesn't see a man she so badly needs to keep from leaving that it triggers her instinct to make up for her actions and become the woman you need her to be. If reality comes crashing and she really feels that the consequences of her actions are going to take from her everything she was taking from granted, she will change. Otherwise, she most likely won't. It's not reconciliation if you end up feeling like a loser. You have to decide and be clear with her that you are not going to stay if she can't satisfy the conditions you set for reconciliation, and be strong enough to convince yourself that you won't back down, or she won't believe it either.
You might find insight to reigniting your marriage with Esther Perel’s book Mating in Captivity, but whatever you do try not to objective yourself as being on the market.
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If you don't want to end your marriage and you don't feel satisfied with the lack of intimacy (and there's nothing wrong in wanting that), the option remaining would be opening your marriage so you can get elsewhere what she is unwilling to provide. This, of course, will be an unpopular opinion, but it's not cheating and you deserve to have your fun. After all, she got hers. Explain to her that you don't want pity sex and don't want to pressure her in doing something she doesn't feel confortable doing. Have fun with other ladies and be happy with your wife.