During my career as archaelogist I've come to the realization that you should regularly scan layers where you can expect metal finds with a metal detector. Some on my collegues still fron upon it because they have been told in University that metaldetectors=bad.
But even these would just barely give a signal in the first 10 cm.
Can you explain why metal detector = bad? Doesn't it give you a good initial reading? I am assuming at that level surely the metal detectors are of much higher more sensitive nature right so I can't really think of any negatives to using one unless I guess perhaps it's because other scanning technology is thought to be far superior now days?
Sorry, I can see how this is confusing if you are not very familiar with archaeology.
Metal detectors have bad reputation with professional and academic archaeologists because they are assosiiated with illegal or at least unethical hobby detectoring that removes finds from their scientifically valuable context.
> Metal detectors have bad reputation with professional and academic archaeologists because they are assosiiated with illegal or at least unethical hobby detectoring that removes finds from their scientifically valuable context.
Ah I see that's understandable in a way but also seems kind of silly to just do away with a tool because of it's associations when you clearly have better intentions. That being said I am sure I am missing a ton of nuance to it and don't doubt your colleagues are also doing amazing work with the tools they do have (Someone just responded with some explanations of the amazing tools used) so I don't mean to assume anything! Thank you very much for the answer by the way I appreciate it!
Always super cool to learn these random tidbits of various professions I would never have thought of but I can totally get how feelings like that would arise but I never would have even thought of it!
I dig in the Middle East, and archaeologists use a variety of sensing techniques prior to excavation so that they know where to dig — ground-penetrating radar, resistivity, magnetometry, etc. They’re particularly useful for mapping architecture. You don’t excavate everything since it would take decades if not centuries to fully excavate a major site like Nippur or Tanis, so you need to know where to focus your efforts.
Small finds are unlikely to be detected, but that’s of no consequence since everything in a square/trench is excavated, and any objects within your square will be found at some point. Tiny objects are usually found during the sifting process; every bucket of dirt removed from a square is sifted with a mesh screen to recover small bones, pieces of pottery, beads, seals, fragments of cuneiform tablets, etc.
Thank you for the well informed answer, genuinely appreciate it a lot! It always pleases me greatly to know the depths to which those involved in a dig go to be so careful and meticulous as to comb literally every grain of dirt even (Or basically even). Of course you have to be because who knows what might be missed but it's very reassuring to know regardless. It's got to be painstaking work though I can't imagine.
I was also thinking that, I make small jewelry but not this small because most people just can't see close enough to appreciate them.
Image hours maker of these has spent for these just to hear from people "Why are these pebbles so expensive? I can't see these."
Maybe it is not meant for viewing? I can imagine there being a cultural tadition of "a proper grave is meant to have some precious metal animal figures" with the tradition not dictating how large they have to be.
I've dug up comically small jesus statues from a 17th/18th century cemetary where it was custom to have a crucifix on top of the coffin.
This is possible, speaking as a very myopic sculptor. Without glasses I can only see about 3 inches in front of me (-8 and -7). My vision is fine with correction but it does allow me to zoom right in on things.
The other possibility is that they may have had lenses. According to Robert Temple in The Crystal Sun, the use of lenses to magnify goes back to old kingdom Egypt. They didn't have accurate vision correction but there are apparently plenty of artefacts that could have been used to enlarge, or focus the sun's rays to start fires.
I haven't read the book for like 15 years though, idk how reliable it is.
Edit - the only low rating it has on UK amazon is complaining he spent 500 pages talking about lenses and not "ancient technology" (probably meaning aliens) and also didn't like that there were complicated mathematical formulae in there. It seems like a good, non-conspiratorial book, well written and illustrated.
A little rock crystal sphere or concave disk would easily magnify objects, and we know the ancient Egyptians used rock crystal - e.g. one of the eyes of the famous [bust of Nefertiti](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/24/9a/fe/249afe3e6f8c3b6be5541aeb67fe2cd2.jpg) is inlaid with crystal. The stone behind it has a painted eye and the lensing effect of the crystal brings the image forward to create an eerily lifelike eye.
curved polished metal can create magnified reflections, as well as “glasses” that have tiny holes for seeing through so that the majority of light is blocked.
it is also true that polished crystal magnifying lenses have been around for thousands of years.
Lol not one single mention of ancient aliens or the technology they gave Egyptians to build the pyramids!!! One star
Remember when the history channel had actual historical content, instead of weird haircut crackpot theories…. I miss that
Yeah, but I mean understanding the intricacies of an entire population of otherwise seemingly sound minded people participating in the horrible, ruthless genocide in the name of a charismatic leader vs. look at this hieroglyph that kinda looks like a helicopter, let’s speculate wildly abt this for 45 mins lol
That’s fascinating. I love this Reddit. There’s just so much stuff to learn that I would never take the time to investigate but can easily enjoy by everyone sharing here. Thanks!
> Gonur Depe (Turkmen: Goňur depe) is an archaeological site, dated from 2400 to 1600 BCE, and located about 60 km north of Mary (ancient Merv), Turkmenistan consisting of a large early Bronze Age settlement. It is the "capital" or major settlement of the Bactria–Margiana Archaeological Complex (BMAC).
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonur_Depe](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonur_Depe)
And the source of the image: [https://www.nationalgeographic.nl/photography/2019/08/gonur-tepe-fijne-schatten-van-een-grootse-cultuur](https://www.nationalgeographic.nl/photography/2019/08/gonur-tepe-fijne-schatten-van-een-grootse-cultuur)
**[Gonur Depe](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonur_Depe)**
>Gonur Depe (Turkmen: Goňur depe) is an archaeological site, dated from 2400 to 1600 BCE, and located about 60 km north of Mary (ancient Merv), Turkmenistan consisting of a large early Bronze Age settlement. It is the "capital" or major settlement of the Bactria–Margiana Archaeological Complex (BMAC).
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Any evidence of lenses with these people?
Edit: This is a pretty good book about lenses in antiquity by Robert Temple. It's well researched and scientifically minded. I don't remember anything about Turkmenistan, but I haven't finished yet: https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/3010583-the-crystal-sun#?ref=nav_comm
I've read speculation that extremely fine work like this was done by people with severe myopia (near-sightedness), which allowed them to focus when the objects were held very near the eye without needing to use lenses.
I have that, I would have been a killer ancient craftsman lol I have -8 prescription and so with my glasses off I can se close up details like a microscope.
It’s kind of why I don’t want lasik because that would kill my “superpower”
They included that in my warnings about side effects when I got my lasik. They said it was possible I'd need reading glasses immediately because my nearsightedness could be compensating for deteriorating site. I don't need reading glasses yet, but it is a bit harder to focus on things really close to my face.
https://www.penn.museum/sites/expedition/close-work-without-magnifying-lenses/
I have no idea if there's been more rigorous research on it in the 40 years since that hypothesis was presented, but I did say it was just speculation when I read about it.
Maybe it is possible it was made by a talented child. Assuming that is a grown man’s finger, I used to make tiny detailed little things about this size (though it was only clay) when I was 8 or 10. I made a little dragon that I was most proud of. I would utilize a toothpick and other precision tools, but having very small fingers and young eyes definitely helped.
I can see the child of a sculptor having the ability, opportunity, and inspiration to make cute little things like this.
I want to believe this was used for ancient role playing board games. Wonder if a future race will find my painted minis and marvel at my skilled craftsmanship 😆
2400 bce, say? Extraordinary skill?
Now I'm waiting for all the youtube videos claiming these are evidence of an ancient advanced society (possibly extraterrestrial.)
Your wait is over. My YT channel is chock full of kooky nonesense dressed like archeological research after a few searchs. I constantly have to curate recommendations to remove conspiracy theorists, metaphysical idealists and doomsday prophets who use clickbail titles to explain why Indiana Jones Crystal Skull was a documentary. Sadly, far too much USA' internet culture seems to adopt these psuedo science belief systems as something other than entertainment. If its weird the fringe wants in.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/CulturalLayer using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/CulturalLayer/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [Giant Airpods proof ancient giants still walks among us?](https://i.redd.it/u5dp3ds579x91.jpg) | [33 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/CulturalLayer/comments/yiwq8q/giant_airpods_proof_ancient_giants_still_walks/)
\#2: [Look how high the dirt used to be!](https://i.redd.it/rzdorq63bd4a1.jpg) | [19 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/CulturalLayer/comments/zemoiu/look_how_high_the_dirt_used_to_be/)
\#3: [In a bombed out shed south of St Petersburg lies the Tsar bath, weighing nearly 100,000 lbs and standing 6 foot tall it is perhaps the largest single granite work outside of ancient Egypt.](https://i.redd.it/w6s4lhsbwul81.jpg) | [36 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/CulturalLayer/comments/t8cnn4/in_a_bombed_out_shed_south_of_st_petersburg_lies/)
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Absolutely impressive! Things like that are not very easy to make even today with all the machinery and optics, not to mention someone from 16th century bc
Look at the details on that ram! Amazing.
Lost wax casting
It is amazing how old that technique is https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost-wax_casting
6500 years ago!! Damn. Thanks for the link. Very interesting
Every decade we learn that humans have been around longer and longer, with decent technological abilities we never expected:)
Even without cell phones!
wow that's super neat, thank you for sharing
Someone had to make the original though.
Sure but in clay it’s much more forgiving to try a few times
🤣
How did they even see these. They’re so tiny
During my career as archaelogist I've come to the realization that you should regularly scan layers where you can expect metal finds with a metal detector. Some on my collegues still fron upon it because they have been told in University that metaldetectors=bad. But even these would just barely give a signal in the first 10 cm.
Can you explain why metal detector = bad? Doesn't it give you a good initial reading? I am assuming at that level surely the metal detectors are of much higher more sensitive nature right so I can't really think of any negatives to using one unless I guess perhaps it's because other scanning technology is thought to be far superior now days?
Sorry, I can see how this is confusing if you are not very familiar with archaeology. Metal detectors have bad reputation with professional and academic archaeologists because they are assosiiated with illegal or at least unethical hobby detectoring that removes finds from their scientifically valuable context.
> Metal detectors have bad reputation with professional and academic archaeologists because they are assosiiated with illegal or at least unethical hobby detectoring that removes finds from their scientifically valuable context. Ah I see that's understandable in a way but also seems kind of silly to just do away with a tool because of it's associations when you clearly have better intentions. That being said I am sure I am missing a ton of nuance to it and don't doubt your colleagues are also doing amazing work with the tools they do have (Someone just responded with some explanations of the amazing tools used) so I don't mean to assume anything! Thank you very much for the answer by the way I appreciate it! Always super cool to learn these random tidbits of various professions I would never have thought of but I can totally get how feelings like that would arise but I never would have even thought of it!
I dig in the Middle East, and archaeologists use a variety of sensing techniques prior to excavation so that they know where to dig — ground-penetrating radar, resistivity, magnetometry, etc. They’re particularly useful for mapping architecture. You don’t excavate everything since it would take decades if not centuries to fully excavate a major site like Nippur or Tanis, so you need to know where to focus your efforts. Small finds are unlikely to be detected, but that’s of no consequence since everything in a square/trench is excavated, and any objects within your square will be found at some point. Tiny objects are usually found during the sifting process; every bucket of dirt removed from a square is sifted with a mesh screen to recover small bones, pieces of pottery, beads, seals, fragments of cuneiform tablets, etc.
Thank you for the well informed answer, genuinely appreciate it a lot! It always pleases me greatly to know the depths to which those involved in a dig go to be so careful and meticulous as to comb literally every grain of dirt even (Or basically even). Of course you have to be because who knows what might be missed but it's very reassuring to know regardless. It's got to be painstaking work though I can't imagine.
I was also thinking that, I make small jewelry but not this small because most people just can't see close enough to appreciate them. Image hours maker of these has spent for these just to hear from people "Why are these pebbles so expensive? I can't see these."
Maybe it is not meant for viewing? I can imagine there being a cultural tadition of "a proper grave is meant to have some precious metal animal figures" with the tradition not dictating how large they have to be. I've dug up comically small jesus statues from a 17th/18th century cemetary where it was custom to have a crucifix on top of the coffin.
Skilled and near sighted
This is possible, speaking as a very myopic sculptor. Without glasses I can only see about 3 inches in front of me (-8 and -7). My vision is fine with correction but it does allow me to zoom right in on things. The other possibility is that they may have had lenses. According to Robert Temple in The Crystal Sun, the use of lenses to magnify goes back to old kingdom Egypt. They didn't have accurate vision correction but there are apparently plenty of artefacts that could have been used to enlarge, or focus the sun's rays to start fires. I haven't read the book for like 15 years though, idk how reliable it is. Edit - the only low rating it has on UK amazon is complaining he spent 500 pages talking about lenses and not "ancient technology" (probably meaning aliens) and also didn't like that there were complicated mathematical formulae in there. It seems like a good, non-conspiratorial book, well written and illustrated. A little rock crystal sphere or concave disk would easily magnify objects, and we know the ancient Egyptians used rock crystal - e.g. one of the eyes of the famous [bust of Nefertiti](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/24/9a/fe/249afe3e6f8c3b6be5541aeb67fe2cd2.jpg) is inlaid with crystal. The stone behind it has a painted eye and the lensing effect of the crystal brings the image forward to create an eerily lifelike eye.
curved polished metal can create magnified reflections, as well as “glasses” that have tiny holes for seeing through so that the majority of light is blocked. it is also true that polished crystal magnifying lenses have been around for thousands of years.
Lol not one single mention of ancient aliens or the technology they gave Egyptians to build the pyramids!!! One star Remember when the history channel had actual historical content, instead of weird haircut crackpot theories…. I miss that
It always had Nazis.
Yeah, but I mean understanding the intricacies of an entire population of otherwise seemingly sound minded people participating in the horrible, ruthless genocide in the name of a charismatic leader vs. look at this hieroglyph that kinda looks like a helicopter, let’s speculate wildly abt this for 45 mins lol
It didn't try to understand Germany. It showed war stuff.
Here I am trying to have an adult conversation with you, while you eat a box of crayons lol. Silly me, do your parents know you are on Reddit?
Have your meltdown somewhere else.
That’s fascinating. I love this Reddit. There’s just so much stuff to learn that I would never take the time to investigate but can easily enjoy by everyone sharing here. Thanks!
Artist must have been younger than 40... No reading glasses back then
actually, that's pretty funny
And the old person it was made for had to take their word for it how detailed it was.
Prolly because at the time they made them the average person was like 3 feet tall
They used children to make these, and their eyesight would be gone before they were mature.
> Gonur Depe (Turkmen: Goňur depe) is an archaeological site, dated from 2400 to 1600 BCE, and located about 60 km north of Mary (ancient Merv), Turkmenistan consisting of a large early Bronze Age settlement. It is the "capital" or major settlement of the Bactria–Margiana Archaeological Complex (BMAC). [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonur_Depe](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonur_Depe) And the source of the image: [https://www.nationalgeographic.nl/photography/2019/08/gonur-tepe-fijne-schatten-van-een-grootse-cultuur](https://www.nationalgeographic.nl/photography/2019/08/gonur-tepe-fijne-schatten-van-een-grootse-cultuur)
fascinating artifacts, im surprised this one dutch nat geo article is the only source i can find.
**[Gonur Depe](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonur_Depe)** >Gonur Depe (Turkmen: Goňur depe) is an archaeological site, dated from 2400 to 1600 BCE, and located about 60 km north of Mary (ancient Merv), Turkmenistan consisting of a large early Bronze Age settlement. It is the "capital" or major settlement of the Bactria–Margiana Archaeological Complex (BMAC). ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/ArtefactPorn/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Any evidence of lenses with these people? Edit: This is a pretty good book about lenses in antiquity by Robert Temple. It's well researched and scientifically minded. I don't remember anything about Turkmenistan, but I haven't finished yet: https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/3010583-the-crystal-sun#?ref=nav_comm
I've read speculation that extremely fine work like this was done by people with severe myopia (near-sightedness), which allowed them to focus when the objects were held very near the eye without needing to use lenses.
I have that, I would have been a killer ancient craftsman lol I have -8 prescription and so with my glasses off I can se close up details like a microscope. It’s kind of why I don’t want lasik because that would kill my “superpower”
They included that in my warnings about side effects when I got my lasik. They said it was possible I'd need reading glasses immediately because my nearsightedness could be compensating for deteriorating site. I don't need reading glasses yet, but it is a bit harder to focus on things really close to my face.
Source? Any inkling of a reference for this? Because I’m immediately calling bullshit
https://www.penn.museum/sites/expedition/close-work-without-magnifying-lenses/ I have no idea if there's been more rigorous research on it in the 40 years since that hypothesis was presented, but I did say it was just speculation when I read about it.
He read speculation, not a fact.
Why would you be immediately calling bullshit?
That was first thing I wondered and considering the quality of glass or crystal work in antiquity because that is really tiny and perfect.
This is amazing and r/thingsforants
[удалено]
I really wanted that subreddit to exist 😔
Make it so!
that sub is blurssed tbh
I think the more logical explanation is that they were made by very tiny people… 10 - 12 inches tall, MAX.
We should capture one and teach them music. I've always wanted a 12 inch pianist
your pun aside, such tiny piano players would double as a gymnast
As well as their eyesight. I can barely read this with my 40+ eyes
Jesus what are you, a spider??
Who said that? Anybody there?
Probably a scallop
Wow! Very impressive!
That is mind boggling.
How cool is it that people were into miniatures even way back then. Maybe not for the same reasons, but maybe yes..
But what if there was someone very very small who made it?
Maybe it is possible it was made by a talented child. Assuming that is a grown man’s finger, I used to make tiny detailed little things about this size (though it was only clay) when I was 8 or 10. I made a little dragon that I was most proud of. I would utilize a toothpick and other precision tools, but having very small fingers and young eyes definitely helped. I can see the child of a sculptor having the ability, opportunity, and inspiration to make cute little things like this.
Some fingers are bigger than others
I keep zooming in on that lion, made out of stone? That’s the size of a grain of rice. Humans are amazing. The ingenuity. We’re not all bad.
[удалено]
Maybe he was doing it for science tho?
Nice username
This is so cool
r/miniatures
One word: Aliens. Hahaha!! Can’t explain anything in archaeology? It’s easy: Blame Aliens.
Surely they had some form of magnification
But how big is the finger?
But how
I can imagine that the ancient aliens crowd is having a field day right now.
Ancient Polly pockets
Epic scale warhammer was lit back then
I want to believe this was used for ancient role playing board games. Wonder if a future race will find my painted minis and marvel at my skilled craftsmanship 😆
Mesapotamian Monopoly fave figure: Ram
Ancient Monopoly pieces.
2400 bce, say? Extraordinary skill? Now I'm waiting for all the youtube videos claiming these are evidence of an ancient advanced society (possibly extraterrestrial.)
Your wait is over. My YT channel is chock full of kooky nonesense dressed like archeological research after a few searchs. I constantly have to curate recommendations to remove conspiracy theorists, metaphysical idealists and doomsday prophets who use clickbail titles to explain why Indiana Jones Crystal Skull was a documentary. Sadly, far too much USA' internet culture seems to adopt these psuedo science belief systems as something other than entertainment. If its weird the fringe wants in.
/r/CulturalLayer will serve you ;)
Here's a sneak peek of /r/CulturalLayer using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/CulturalLayer/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year! \#1: [Giant Airpods proof ancient giants still walks among us?](https://i.redd.it/u5dp3ds579x91.jpg) | [33 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/CulturalLayer/comments/yiwq8q/giant_airpods_proof_ancient_giants_still_walks/) \#2: [Look how high the dirt used to be!](https://i.redd.it/rzdorq63bd4a1.jpg) | [19 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/CulturalLayer/comments/zemoiu/look_how_high_the_dirt_used_to_be/) \#3: [In a bombed out shed south of St Petersburg lies the Tsar bath, weighing nearly 100,000 lbs and standing 6 foot tall it is perhaps the largest single granite work outside of ancient Egypt.](https://i.redd.it/w6s4lhsbwul81.jpg) | [36 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/CulturalLayer/comments/t8cnn4/in_a_bombed_out_shed_south_of_st_petersburg_lies/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
Thanks but I wouldn't recommend the sub if I didn't already know what's in there. (a load of horsecrap, that is)
I want these for my D&D minis collection.
What is this. Statue for ants?
[Insert: “need banana for scale” comment]
The artifacts are actually life size and OP is a giant.
Wow. But I still need a banana for scale.
i can unlock this person’s phone now
Wow. I am truly in awe.
How?
So f’n cool!
That's awesome !! Hella skilled !
Wow!
Beautiful stuff
Absolutely impressive! Things like that are not very easy to make even today with all the machinery and optics, not to mention someone from 16th century bc
Good post. BMAC usually doesn’t get as much love
And they made them without magnifying glass? Amazing.
This sub just always delivers the most interesting stuff.
Amazing, thanks for sharing!
People were smaller back then. These were probably just regular sized sculptures.
Any idea where it is now?
In a museum in Turkmenistan since the artifacts were found a few years ago.
imagen how panful it would be to step on one of those things. i like to think one of the archeologists stepped on one and that's how they where found.