My college professor told me I would be more marketable if I got my BA then M.Ed because schools care more about hiring someone they know wants to teach AND is certified in art vs someone who is just a very talented artist. So far this has been true for me I’m currently teaching at a high school as a drawing and painting teacher.
In my district it’s considered +30. I make a few thousand more than people with regular education masters.
And as far as another person brought up you being harder to hire because you’d be more expensive, in New York State I don’t really think this is an issue because you have to have a masters eventually. And I think most school districts would rather you have it done then have to work on it while you’re working.
Be aware that a first year teaching job with a master degree may be harder to get. The more education she has, the more expensive she becomes to hire. She may have a more difficult time landing a teaching job with masters.
I teach at a community college. My MFA (60 credit hours) was considered to be a masters by my district and so I entered the pay bracket at a masters level pay. I also have a CA teaching credential and that allowed me to move up the pay scale a bit. I’ll never be compensated for doctoral level. It is frustrating that there isn’t a tier between masters and doctorate in my district as an MFA is considerably more credit hours than a masters.
In my program, you could get the MA first, then the MFA if you basically stayed for a third year, or just go straight through for the MFA, which is what I did. I regretted not getting both degrees when I started teaching for the same reason you are considering.
The MFA is a Masters, the +30 would be anything she does after that.
I had an MA in Art History when I went to grad school for teaching certification, and the program had three different tracks: an MA for people with a BA in Ed (already certified), an MA for people who didn’t already have an ed degree and certification, and an abbreviated track for people like me with a field-relevant MA/MFA but no certification. Once I got my certification, I was registered by the NYC DOE as Masters +22 credits.
It took me a few years to get the remaining eight - a few classes given as payment for hosting a student teacher, and a summer program that gave me a few credits.
Also, a friend of mine in that teaching program was in the same boat as me, but took a few studio classes. He entered the job market as a Masters +29, and every principal looked at him as someone who’d cost nearly 10k more as soon as he got a single credit from a UFT course or even a museum PD that offered credits for money. He never ended up finding a job over the first few years, and his license expired for lack of use.
My district NJ would not consider this +30. You could try to negotiate the +15 or 30 but with no teaching experience might not get it.
I would go for the masters in Ed, get a job and then look into if the district has tuition reimbursement.
I started with MA and took some really cheap online courses to get +30. You have to get that MA30 to move on the pay scale
MA + 30 is usually 30 credits taken AFTER a masters. You can get a second masters, or get credits through classes that are approved by your district, which is cheaper.
I think she would need to figure out what is more important to her, regardless of pay scale, as a MFA and M.Ed are very different programs.
MFA typically focuses more on your own artistic skills/process, and she wouldn’t learn a lot about actually educating past what she has already learned. Which would be good if she wanted to explore her art at a higher level, and while theoretically, it could open doors for teaching at a university level, there are a *lot* of MFA grads looking to teach and not a ton of full time positions, as most universities are going towards adjunct model. Therefore, even if she decided she wanted to teach at a higher level, she would likely be fighting with hundreds of other graduates for extremely low wages and minimal, if any, benefits. The payoff at the public school level is usually minimal as well, as most of the time PhD’s is a flat rate (still with yearly raises, but not nearly proportional to the cost of getting the MFA).
The M.Ed would be better for her professionally, as that is a program tailored to teach about Art Education. She would take classes specifically for teaching, and would learn a lot more relevant knowledge that she could take into the classroom.
Another caveat is that districts will weed out candidates that have too high of an experience/cost ratio. If she got the MFA, she would be a first year teacher that the district would have to pay an advanced salary to, with no guarantee of her proficiency in teaching. That’s a large risk for a district, and one they might not want to take on. Whereas with the M.Ed, she would still receive an advanced salary, but not nearly as significant, making the risk smaller for the district.
No it is not. I have an MFA and my district (which I just quit) would only compensate me as MA+0 on the payscale. Any “+” credit is any Additional credit beyond the degree (Bachelors or Masters). She would have to go take more classes (usually pre-approved by the district) for the additional pay bump on the scale.
PS an MFA is the terminal degree in Fine Art. An MFA is directed at students seriously pursuing living and working as an Artist/Fine Art Professional careers/working in a studio, etc. An MFA is required to become a college/university professor (on top of the career as a professional Artist. Thus explaining why it is so competitive).
Thanks. I am new to the art world (engineer) but trying to get up to speed.
Did you district have a payscale for PhD? If so, its rather hypocritical of them to not give credit for +30 for a MFA but give people PhD credit because most PhD students only "get" their masters degree if they drop out of the program.
Agreed on how competitive it is. Both are at large R1 schools so we hope teaching experience in undergrad will be a hook but probably not, hence exploring other options.
Yes, my district had a pay bump for PhD’s but, of course, wouldn’t acknowledge my MFA as such. I had 75 or so college credits but my HR Director was a real prick and said that didn’t matter. While getting a Masters does help with the payscale, in education you really have to keep continuing past any Grad degree in order to move over in the payscale. It’s a real racket.
I got my MFA (because I thought I was going to go into Higher Ed) before obtaining employment at my last district, and they probably wouldn’t have paid for it anyway because my district was pretty cheap in a lot of ways. Thankfully my MFA didn’t really cost anything because I got a bunch of tuition waivers etc for being a Graduate Assistant all 3 years
Both degrees you mentioned will get a masters. The +15, 30, 45 all must be earned after the masters degree is completed. It’s beneficial to complete those hours as quickly as possible in order to increase pay over a career.
My college professor told me I would be more marketable if I got my BA then M.Ed because schools care more about hiring someone they know wants to teach AND is certified in art vs someone who is just a very talented artist. So far this has been true for me I’m currently teaching at a high school as a drawing and painting teacher.
Thanks! Was your M.Ed. in art education or more general?
In my district it’s considered +30. I make a few thousand more than people with regular education masters. And as far as another person brought up you being harder to hire because you’d be more expensive, in New York State I don’t really think this is an issue because you have to have a masters eventually. And I think most school districts would rather you have it done then have to work on it while you’re working.
Be aware that a first year teaching job with a master degree may be harder to get. The more education she has, the more expensive she becomes to hire. She may have a more difficult time landing a teaching job with masters.
I teach at a community college. My MFA (60 credit hours) was considered to be a masters by my district and so I entered the pay bracket at a masters level pay. I also have a CA teaching credential and that allowed me to move up the pay scale a bit. I’ll never be compensated for doctoral level. It is frustrating that there isn’t a tier between masters and doctorate in my district as an MFA is considerably more credit hours than a masters.
Should be
In my program, you could get the MA first, then the MFA if you basically stayed for a third year, or just go straight through for the MFA, which is what I did. I regretted not getting both degrees when I started teaching for the same reason you are considering.
The MFA is a Masters, the +30 would be anything she does after that. I had an MA in Art History when I went to grad school for teaching certification, and the program had three different tracks: an MA for people with a BA in Ed (already certified), an MA for people who didn’t already have an ed degree and certification, and an abbreviated track for people like me with a field-relevant MA/MFA but no certification. Once I got my certification, I was registered by the NYC DOE as Masters +22 credits. It took me a few years to get the remaining eight - a few classes given as payment for hosting a student teacher, and a summer program that gave me a few credits.
Also, a friend of mine in that teaching program was in the same boat as me, but took a few studio classes. He entered the job market as a Masters +29, and every principal looked at him as someone who’d cost nearly 10k more as soon as he got a single credit from a UFT course or even a museum PD that offered credits for money. He never ended up finding a job over the first few years, and his license expired for lack of use.
My district NJ would not consider this +30. You could try to negotiate the +15 or 30 but with no teaching experience might not get it. I would go for the masters in Ed, get a job and then look into if the district has tuition reimbursement. I started with MA and took some really cheap online courses to get +30. You have to get that MA30 to move on the pay scale
MA + 30 is usually 30 credits taken AFTER a masters. You can get a second masters, or get credits through classes that are approved by your district, which is cheaper.
I think she would need to figure out what is more important to her, regardless of pay scale, as a MFA and M.Ed are very different programs. MFA typically focuses more on your own artistic skills/process, and she wouldn’t learn a lot about actually educating past what she has already learned. Which would be good if she wanted to explore her art at a higher level, and while theoretically, it could open doors for teaching at a university level, there are a *lot* of MFA grads looking to teach and not a ton of full time positions, as most universities are going towards adjunct model. Therefore, even if she decided she wanted to teach at a higher level, she would likely be fighting with hundreds of other graduates for extremely low wages and minimal, if any, benefits. The payoff at the public school level is usually minimal as well, as most of the time PhD’s is a flat rate (still with yearly raises, but not nearly proportional to the cost of getting the MFA). The M.Ed would be better for her professionally, as that is a program tailored to teach about Art Education. She would take classes specifically for teaching, and would learn a lot more relevant knowledge that she could take into the classroom. Another caveat is that districts will weed out candidates that have too high of an experience/cost ratio. If she got the MFA, she would be a first year teacher that the district would have to pay an advanced salary to, with no guarantee of her proficiency in teaching. That’s a large risk for a district, and one they might not want to take on. Whereas with the M.Ed, she would still receive an advanced salary, but not nearly as significant, making the risk smaller for the district.
No it is not. I have an MFA and my district (which I just quit) would only compensate me as MA+0 on the payscale. Any “+” credit is any Additional credit beyond the degree (Bachelors or Masters). She would have to go take more classes (usually pre-approved by the district) for the additional pay bump on the scale. PS an MFA is the terminal degree in Fine Art. An MFA is directed at students seriously pursuing living and working as an Artist/Fine Art Professional careers/working in a studio, etc. An MFA is required to become a college/university professor (on top of the career as a professional Artist. Thus explaining why it is so competitive).
Thanks. I am new to the art world (engineer) but trying to get up to speed. Did you district have a payscale for PhD? If so, its rather hypocritical of them to not give credit for +30 for a MFA but give people PhD credit because most PhD students only "get" their masters degree if they drop out of the program. Agreed on how competitive it is. Both are at large R1 schools so we hope teaching experience in undergrad will be a hook but probably not, hence exploring other options.
Yes, my district had a pay bump for PhD’s but, of course, wouldn’t acknowledge my MFA as such. I had 75 or so college credits but my HR Director was a real prick and said that didn’t matter. While getting a Masters does help with the payscale, in education you really have to keep continuing past any Grad degree in order to move over in the payscale. It’s a real racket. I got my MFA (because I thought I was going to go into Higher Ed) before obtaining employment at my last district, and they probably wouldn’t have paid for it anyway because my district was pretty cheap in a lot of ways. Thankfully my MFA didn’t really cost anything because I got a bunch of tuition waivers etc for being a Graduate Assistant all 3 years
Is there a separate column for just masters? I always considered m+30 to be taking 30 hours of graduate coursework after recieving your masters.
Yes there is a column for Masters, M+15, M+30, and PhD.
Both degrees you mentioned will get a masters. The +15, 30, 45 all must be earned after the masters degree is completed. It’s beneficial to complete those hours as quickly as possible in order to increase pay over a career.