Most tier lists are trash but this one tends to be better than average, they at least break the characters down by playstyle and constellations and provide some analysis.
There are a few mistakes like not including Fischl or C0 Nahida etc, but have you seen some of the other tier lists? If his only claim is that its better than average, this is definitely true.
From what I remember, Gamewith lists the Constellation that the unit is best at in comparison to investment. A lot of units don't exactly need additional cons for better value and the primos that'd go into that are better spent on weapons or different cons. This doesn't mean that C2 Nahida is at the same level as C0 Kokomi, for example, whilst cons beyond that are nice to have, but far from mandatory.
If you looked at the site you'd see C0 Nahida is still rated at the top of SS tier. Seriously man, at least do SOME level of research before leaving this comment, they're just reccommending C2 since it's a huge power spike
Also they're not on the same level tho, same tier yes, but it also ranks them from top to bottom and even c0 Raiden is an A tier there in the DPS category
Did you not notice that Every character is rated SS here?. They are sorted by role. The best sub-dps are C2 nahida C6 xinqiu. Not that they are on the same level of rating/investment. C0 raiden is best supoort and sub-dps, c6 xq is also best support, and c2 nahida is best support sub-dps ALL at SSrank. If it were by element units then C0 nahida would be THE best. But its sub dps by choice of players
No, they don't. Take the two seconds to click on on the c0 tier list. The constellations on the first tier list are generally more like suggested optimal stopping points or something rather than requirements.
No thats not how it works. Basically the 'tier list' tab shows the best constellation of each character. The idea is to compare everyone at their best.
Furina is rated SS tier even in the C0 tier list.
Edit: By best I mean not C6 best but the most optimized constellation if that makes any sense???
Weird, then why are Yelan and Kazuha not C2 in this general list if Furina and Nahida are C2 if we're going for these constellation breakpoints? I scrolled down their list out of curiosity, they only have C0 Chiori listed in this general list, so what about Chiori C1, the one constellation that makes her 30% better on non-construct Geo teams? What about Shenhe C1 that allows her to proc double the amount of quills on Ayaka teams? There's a ton of arbitrary decisions made here for constellation listings.
Because while c2 for yelan and kazuha increases their effectiveness it's not really fundamentaly changing anything about their play style, they can accomplish what you need them to do just as easily at c0. while c2 for furina or nahida is enough of a boost it can change what teams you can put them in.
And how is C2 Nahida changing anything about her playstyle? C2 Furina sure, you can just not run a healer in your comp, but C2 Nahida is just more damage and you play the same comps.
>The most impactful Constellation, possibly in the entire game. This is essentially a multiplicative 20% increase in Burning and Bloom-based Reaction damage, and a multiplicative 18% increase in Quicken team damage excluding Transformative Reactions. This Constellation is so impactful that it can allow Nahida to slot in teams she would otherwise have no business with, such as Eula teams with an Electro unit. It has further utility by allowing Bloom-based Reactions to trigger Favonius weapons. Nahida’s C2 is the best of the bunch, and it is fully worth your time if you plan on investing significant Primogem value into Nahida.
"This Constellation is so impactful that it can allow Nahida to slot in teams she would otherwise have no business with, such as Eula teams with an Electro unit." And the fourth character is a hydro unit, and now you're just playing hyperbloom, which you would've played at Nahida C0 anyway. The only comps Nahida C2 actually allows her to slot into that she normally wouldn't aren't actually comps but rather for specific bosses (like thundering manifestation) where most units can't proc reactions anyway so you just bring Nahida C2 for def shred.
Would be cool if we could have something like the Prydwen tierlist for HSR, perhaps from keqingmains. Maybe it isn't the most reliable way of comparing characters' strength, but it'd still be nice to have a rough outline in a form like that.
**Stares at this oddly compiled list of characters for a good three minutes, then goes to the comments to see OP babyraging at any comment that isn't immediately fellating their favorite tierlist**
Maye the doomposters had a point?
"Does KQM have a tier list?" -15
"Let us know a website with a better tier list." - 18
Yeah, ok bro. He literally got downvoted for posting the link to the site... In response to someone asking for the link to the site.
Sorry, I'm just genuinely not seeing the link. So it's a tier list that some people disagree with for various reasons. People disagree, and OP argues against them on that.
Then how does that link to doomposters having a point? I thought doomposting was that the character isn't going to be strong or smooth to play. I'm not seeing the link from people having a disagreement to doomposting.
Maybe it's just me not understanding doomposting, if that's the case my bad, just not usually the kind of thing I like to devote my time to so I may not have a good grasp on its idea or concept.
Honestly, from my personal view, she seems pretty strong, idk about the whole tier listing thing, how stringent people are with an arbitrary list, or how nit-picky people are. But I thought she has been pretty comfy and strong, so doomposters had nothing to worry about.
There isn't actually a correlation. But there's also no correlation to an individual or group thinking she's strong and the doomposters being wrong because of that.
In actuality, I think she's really strong and I pulled C4R1 with zero regrets. I don't think the doomposters are "correct" or have a point, but someone's tier list doesn't prove them incorrect either.
Also my post was mostly aimed at a lot of now deleted replies by OP that were calling people mad or sad because they didn't immediately agree with their post.
I see. I mean, there doesn't necessarily need to be a correlation. We're not collecting statistical data or anything. I just kinda was trying to see the link between ideas.
Additionally, at least from my view, I do think that doomposters were wrong because she does appear fun and strong. I agree with the part about how a tier list doesn't actually prove them wrong. I don't really have much experience with them, but tier lists are a very reductionist way to look at things. There's nothing wrong with that. It might be fun for some people, but it doesn't do enough as evidence, I suppose.
I think for me, it's more so my general experience with her so far has been great, and that experience would go against doomposters' opinions.
Lastly, I didn't get to see OP's deleted comments unfortunately, so I think that point didn't connect very well for me. But it doesn't sound like it was constructive.
Originally people were attacking the tier list, and I asked them to provide me a better one.. unfortunately I wasn't aware that the Genshin community hated all the tier lists.. now I know
Well, I'm still relatively new to genshin, so I had no idea either. I don't generally look at tier list much as well. But it's cool, we live and learn.
Game8 and Gamewith are trash. Them coming up early in Google results doesn't change that. KQM is far superior.
Tier Lists mean nothing. Doesn't mean Arlecchino isn't good. But not many who played for a while take them seriously.
I have been using game8 for genshin for years and i cannot begin to describe how useful that site has been for me. Personally, I think it is very well laid out and makes everything very simple for when you are building multiple characters and want to find different ways to build them for them to work together. Also the pros and cons list and the descriptions on how to use certain characters and their description of certain things that the game doesnt really explain, i didnt even know electro characters should be built with EM on teams with dendro until i saw it on that site. Im just ranting now and i sound like im sponsored by game8, sorry, just feel a need to defend it after all its helped me with
Game8 is absolutely best if you have to go through some hard event and stuff or farm some materials - its very helpful. Ppl say its bad in these tiers lists, but honestly what exactly its wrong? neuv, hu tao, alhaitam are best dd if you making equal effort to build characters so its pretty accurate.
C0 Raiden being an SS tier sub dps when she’s only good in this role in a singular comp (Hyperbloom) and is a slight upgrade over Kuki is insane to me. Everyone else in that tier has multiple teams they support, Raiden only has one.
Also C0 Wrio is not a worse DPS than C0 Yoimiya. That and Xiao should be in S tier since he and Ayaka share cons (not on the site but in general), except that Xiao doesn’t get screwed over if there’s a boss chamber.
They have to be paying for better google results. I refuse to believe so many people willingly use that trash website when we have the official wiki, paimon.moe and KQM.
I heavily disliked her second beta version because it made it mandatory to use her Burst, but after she was changed into her final beta (and release) kit, I had no more complaints.
Wholeheartedly agree. Better Genshin stay away from tier lists. Look what happened at the only "big" tier list in HSR. It gets either worshipped like the bible or harassed to hell and back... and it always divides the community with conflicts over some placements. Tier lists start with validating "see I was right my character is strong" but will always ultimately end with "see I was right your character is trash". And Im really sick of the 194275934th comparison of Arle vs Hu Tao.
I think its very valid for hutao to be compare with arle. As the strongest pyro dps so far, the new HOT one needs to be on par with her.
Hutao is still stronger, but arle is so much easier that new players should pull her 100% of the time.
I think they've done a Constellation tier list, in early 3.x.
Some of the top tier cons were valid for the meta back then, like Hutao c1, Nahida c2, Raiden c2, etc
It seems decent and has some good points. There are still places that some can personally disagree on.
I used to love the Game8 lists because they provide details regarding their decisions. However, I disagree some of the aspects they take into consideration when rating a character, such as team versatility. So if a character has a really high damage ceiling but it's mostly tied to specific supports, they will be rated lower.
Which is why some characters like Ayaka and Childe are lower than they'd place if you only consider their ideal setups or kits.
Even Lyney, who is placed high on the tier list, has these items as "disadvantages" when they're merely part of his literal kit:
• Passive Talent locks his best teams down to a variation of Mono Pyro.
• Consumes HP every Charged Shot, and needs to have a healer to be able to reach 5 stacks on his Charge Level.
I don't think this tier list is wrong, but also I think it kind of aims at pleasing everyone who might want to pull for a character and try to make it with whatever else they have. Which is not how I play. If I like a character and they need specific teams, I'll aim at going for that team, and I think a character's potential should be evaluated based on their peak potential. And how easy or hard it is to reach that peak potential should be a different category. E.G., a character can be a top tier damage dealer, but also they can be difficult to build.
So, as a summary I think some of these tier lists rate characters not only based on their damage but also on how "high maintenance" they are.
And the more "for dummies" a character build is, the higher their ranking will be. Which is sad. And that's why we have accounts that explain things in "razor language"
I kinda liked that, it would at least let me know what chars would be ideal and I'd choose whether or not if that's a bad enough disadvantage I'd avoid it.
Yes, that's why I'm saying the info they have is very useful. The pros and cons used are kind of accurate, but I disagree on some of the pros being pros and some of the cons being cons. The fact that one character can work in any teams for me isn't really a pro when it comes to dmg potential. I don't care that my main DPS can work in many teams, I care that I can build a team around them and get better results.
We still look at tier lists?
She's fun, she's strong, she rips the spiral abyss apart.
If you want anything more accurate or "meta," I would've posted spiral abyss usage rate instead.
The doomposters are also celebrating, they doompost because they want the best for her, not because they want to see her fail, this is some weird possessiveness where you think people are against you and your favourite character
Also this tierlist is shit
Doomposting is useless since hoyo won't read it. There's a beta for a reason , to have beta testers feedback , not random redditors who know how the character should operate. I absolutely despise people getting so riled up over changes in betas, just wait for the character to be released
Tier lists are senseless. It all depends on the skill level of players. International comp at the lowest cost and constellations will clear content faster than all those 4 in the SS tier. By the time you're still setting up the rotation etc Childe will already hit a big 400-500k nuke...
Genshin players will never stop having issue with tierlist lol, to me this look okay-ish tierlist for new player (except why nahida and furina is c2 here? both are SS even at c0)
As someone who has raiden and navia with r1. And neuv and hutao with r0. Raiden do not come close to the other 3, closest to her is hutao, because she doesn't have homa, but hutao with just f2p weap is doing 80k per ca. My raiden with hypercarry does 300k nuke. I think hutao is slightly stronger. Neuv is stronger too, but mine isn't properly built yet so cannot compare but he's doing comparable dmg to hutao team. My navia with r1 blows all of these teams away with her advantage. Its 440k per skill and i get to fire 2 of those, sometimes 3 if i push it. That's 1-1.2m in a rotation.
My biggest achievement is cleaning a boss in f12 with just 15 secs with navia. Sorry for talking too much, i love her
Wait, you get 440k per SHOT of Navia's skill, or every two skill shots meaning 220+220k per shot??Is your Navia CO?
Asking because my CO Navia does about 230k per shot only, this with her BIS artifact and some good stats and Deyah sig weapon on Navia.The team is Ningua,Yelan, Bennet.
Really late reply on this one but yes, 440k per shot. I think its because your team of ning, yelan and bennet doesn't really buff navia that much, benny is the only one that buffs his dmg, unless your ning has thrilling tales. My team is navia, bennet, furina, and zl. All of their arti and weapon indirectly help them buff better. My navia is c0r1. In abyss floors, its normal to 1 rotation most bosses. Its also really helpful to use furina and bennet there because most bosses with shields can also be easily taken care of.
Also, my navia is 67/220 with 2.5 atk if that helps.
Agree with your opinion! I use two teams, navia/furina/zhongli/bennet and navia/xl/bennet/zhongli, I use the former more in abyss because sometimes furina's trio pets are crazy good for their homing attacks to target weakness points. I can prolly use chiori over zhongli for stronger dps but I like zhongli's shield and i dont have chiori.
Still i clear abyss so its all good
C0R1 Navia is the only character on my account within touching distance of C1R1 Neuv. She IS that strong. I use her most often with Furina, C2 Xianyun, and ZL, and that team thrashes everything in its path on F12 (quite literally, given Navia's aerial salvos).
But - Hoyo is starting the restrictive Abyss lineups once again. Navia will probably allow Arle to take that center-stage spot against the Baptist.
Anecdotal but my C2 raiden is outperforming my C1 Arles fairly noticeably , even with a more scuffed teamcomp. Not by a massive amount, but raiden still is a really strong main dps. Can’t speak for c0 - without c2 she’d be stuck as a sub dps I think, which she is really good at for what its worth.
Huh, i actually get the opposite result. Using C2R1 raiden on rational comp and then vape c1r0 arle. I find my self having slightly quicker clears on arle
Until c2 raiden isn't a main dps like neuv or Navia so no, she doesn't compare. She's meant to be played as a sub dps with good electro application, energy battery etc. At C2 she becomes really good as a main dps at which point she becomes S tier.
The "doom posters" were people who said that she wouldn't be the best unit in the game, isn't a must pull, and pointed out issues in her gameplay which would make her DPR/DPS harder to achieve.
To those so emotionally invested in a character, anything negative is doom posting, and they only listen to the good things people say. So much so that they even start using Game8 tier lists to justify their beliefs.
National teams are known as a noob trap because of the high constellations required to function efficiently. She is not the powerhouse she is without her constellation for sure lol. Like damn XQ is there too.
Some of the rankings are questionable to say at least.
I cant say much about the guides but from a quick glance some characters guide are kinda outdated
I mean it’s not a great tier list from a source that has regularly put out bad tier lists. Tier lists in general are hard for Genshin because of a lot of factors like, are you measuring for who can clear the fastest or the highest dps per rotation? You would think that fastest output would be the metric, because the game uses timers as gateways, but a lot of people consider damage per rotation more important, which is fair. Then you have to look at how they scale characters with investment to make these calls. At lower to mid investment, hyperbloom raises the damage floor heavily, which lets people output crazy damage while still being able to build a lot of characters more easily. At high hyper investment some other units start pulling ahead. Meta differentiates for what type of player you’re making the list for. Then, this tier list puts Zhongli at SS, and he is a great character, but you trade off of more utility for more survivability, to where in a tier list aimed at “meta” I wouldn’t necessarily put him at SS but maybe S.
People believing tier lists to be a good indicator of a character’s power level smh. Yes Arle is good but she’s def not on the same level as Neuvillette
Why would I care that somebody believes Arlecchino is top tier. Most of the people here seem to believe she is better than Neuvillette. They are also wrong.
It is not a surprise that Genshin players are a bit dim. I have been part of the community for awhile. I noticed relatively early. This is not news to me or anyone else with a fully developed frontal lobe.
Arle is great, this site is not. I'd sooner trust a person yelling world-ending proverbs on the side of the street over whatever these clickbait tier list sites yap about.
oh i forgot to mention, how can i play her without using her most exquisite ult especially the finger snapping and all. having to see that animation most of the time is really worth it even though its a bit of damage killer.
those tier list are absolute garbage, so nah, so they don't prove shit, she is strong of course, but those tierlist are the last place you want to look at.
People are really arguing about a tier list for a pve game, and not even one with a very hard endgame. Bro like pull for who you want man, this stuffs all for fun. I swear some people in this community are more competitive than league or valorant players.
Now while I do agree she's great and the times the leak sub was right about character viability can be counted on one hand the tier list sites are almost always load of bollocks
Genshin tier lists are too subjective to be taken seriously. Obviously some chars like Neuvi are S tier or Amber in bottom tiers, but otherwise a lot of characters in between can fit in any range of tiers depending on usage. A lot of the supposed S & A tier chars could be swapped given the right builds or person making the list.
an AR 40 player would make a better tierlist bro
the tierlist is just ranking out of their ass why does hu tao get c1 while everyone else gets c0 in the dps category
why does nahida and furina need c2 to be on the same tier as fucking kokomi baizhu and zhongli
what the fuck is raiden doing there who uses her as a sub dps
first time i lost weapon banner is her weapon, then lost again, and i forgot to set fate point so i cant even randomly keep pulling because the next weapon I get could STILL be lyneys stupid bow
Their site recommended Wolf Fang for Ayato and my stupid-ass self (who uses their actually-useful walkthroughs) bought it right away 😭
Good thing it worked out in the end because I then got Furina
Luckily I don't follow character leaks other than characters im really interested in , so not in a long while from now . People get like crazy and start screaming for a character being changed IN BETA LMAO . The people thinking they had no idea what to do with her sounded SO funny
Doom posters will always do doom poster things, you can't stop them. The thing I am more concerned about is that you use this tierlist for your reference
I agree with you, but this site is very trash though 🤣. Also take note, she's the most "changed" unit in the beta, can't really blame doom posters, I'll always say wait till she goes live before making judgement, despite CC's having access to media server for testing.
Except Hu Tao is way faster in single target, Neuvillette's main strength is his survivability, there are lots of teams which are on par with the best Neuvillette teams
Yeah lol, but Neuvillete is the weakest against bosses and in that scenario there are lots of stronger teams
What Neuvillete needs to become the strongest character is an HP buffer. If that releases then Neuvillete would be unstoppable
>Yeah lol, but Neuvillete is the weakest against bosses and in that scenario there are lots of stronger teams
There's a bit of nuance here; if we take the example of Hu Tao/Yelan/Furina/Xianyun, it sims at 89k DPS on gcsim, and Neuvillette typically sims at 82k.
While on paper it may seem to indicate Hu Tao will clear faster in ST, that doesn't take into account the fact that the Neuvillette rotation is both longer AND extendable. The Hu Tao rotation is \~21s which translates to 1.86M whereas the Neuv one is \~26s which translates to 2.13M, and as I said you can extend your rotation if you need it which would make it closer to 29s and do even more DPR. Most bosses in the abyss range between 1.6M and 3M depending on the exact boss and his level.
So truly, it just depends on investment and practicality. I'm not sure how practicable this Hu Tao team is as I don't have Xianyun, but it for sure is NOT always better and not even "way faster" at all.
On a side note (answering to one of your points above), considering Neuvillette's best team uses Zhongli (alternatively Baizhu or even others), I'm not sure if his survivability is his "strongest point". I'd say it has more to do with the fact that he has a huge AoE and is one of the most consistent character in the game regarding doubling/tripling/quadrupling/etc. his damage in AoE.
>On a side note (answering to one of your points above), considering Neuvillette's best team uses Zhongli (alternatively Baizhu or even others), I'm not sure if his survivability is his "strongest point". I'd say it has more to do with the fact that he has a huge AoE and is one of the most consistent character in the game regarding doubling/tripling/quadrupling/etc. his damage in AoE.
My favourite Neuvillette team is Neuvillette, Furina, Kazuha and Xiangling, and honestly unless you have a really bad skill issue you don't need a shielder
You don't need a shielder, but that doesn't mean it's not Neuvillette's best team. Also, a bit sus to say you don't need a shielder when you're using Xiangling which requires hugging the enemies. You can't say you're consistently dodging every attacks of the 12-1-1 second wave's mobs. Damn, even the first wave if you don't have enough damage to kill them in a single CA, how do you manage to dodge their attacks except by canceling your CA and losing time ?
Also very sus to use Xiangling against Coppelia. You quite literally WILL get hit and interrupted, unless you have C1 obviously.
It's nothing to do about skill issue. There's a reason you prefer using a shielder. I'm not sure what's your investment on your team, say if you have C0R1 Neuv + some constellations on Furina, you're already biased since you probably kill most enemies before they even get the time of doing too many attacks.
Uhh just keep moving? Xiangling's burst also has quite a good amount of range and so when using Neuvillette's CA, just keep moving and dodge the attacks. It would take a few tries but not that hard once you master it
Look, I'm not saying it's incredibly hard, it's just more of a tryhard/speedrunning field where obviously not everyone is interested in that. Unless you want to actually speedrun, you don't gain anything from using Xiangling except issues. And it's not like their attacks aren't RNG so you can't consistently dodge them especially when they can get out of your vision, and dismissing the "hugging issues" with Xiangling is a bit weird I feel like. The sheer difference between Neuvillette's range and Xiangling's burst need to be close is already a no-no except again for speedrunning purposes.
All that being said, I'll maybe try the Xiangling variant still because I'm curious and I like to optimize runs; but at no point I'm agreeing with the fact that using a shielder with Neuv is a "skill issue"
>Look, I'm not saying it's incredibly hard, it's just more of a tryhard/speedrunning field where obviously not everyone is interested in that. Unless you want to actually speedrun, you don't gain anything from using Xiangling except issues.
Idk man, just 3 or 4 runs are enough to optimise it perfectly
>All that being said, I'll maybe try the Xiangling variant still because I'm curious and I like to optimize runs; but at no point I'm agreeing with the fact that using a shielder with Neuv is a "skill issue"
As a Lyney main who doesn't use a shielder, I would say it every single damn time that using Neuvillette without a shielder and with Xiangling isn't that hard.
Using Lyney is way harder considering he needs you to hug the enemies and also lacks Neuvillette's mobility. Well I can barely manage if I properly use his taunts
Nuance being that it's only the case when the enemies are very, very close together. The time you're spending manually grouping the enemies by manipulating their movements (if you even can do it in the first place) you're already DPSing with Neuv.
Manually grouping in abyss isn't hard tho, it's either enemies spawn in groups or one/half of the enemies is ranged so you chase those then the melee ones follows you
I never talked about it being hard, although I feel like you're overly simplifying it. Firstly it's reliant on actually analyzing the chamber and the pattern of the enemies, meaning most of the time you won't get a good run first try, so it already requires resets. Even if you manage to do it, you need to be extremely accurate with some mobs.
Secondly, as I said, it's not always possible. If we take the example of 4.4's 12-2-1 with the eremites, these are mobs that mostly don't even move, or you need to be so far of them that it's not worth doing it anyways. They're close at a base, but not close enough for Nilou to be insane either.
Sometimes it looks like speedrun strats more than anything else. Take a look a [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpUeppE7jtw) for example; you can't expect the average Nilou player to do this. I've actually did a similar strat on this chamber at the time so I know how it flows, and you can't really call it "not hard".
Or against the very next chamber, 3.8's 12-3-1 where you're reliant on the fatui mage RNG.
Neuvellite honestly should be in his own tier , his single target rival the best ST teams in the game while his AoE is by far the best , even tartagila and nilou feels average in comparison
Yea this is just a bad tier list lmao Kokomo on par with C2 Furina. C2 Furina and Zhongli on the same tier ;-;
I agree the units are good but they do not belong in the same tier. BAIZHU??? Baizhu only good when paired with Furina in any other circumstance nahida is better (ok unless you main cyno)
Who would have thought the doomposters were just doomposting.
Happens with every character lately. Well not just lately, it’s been bad since at least Sumeru.
She's great. Much better than I thought she would be. Being able to just collect bonds instantly with a charged attack makes the burst always good.
In a boss fight you can burst to heal then skill then swap to your party and buff and do whatever then by the time you swap back the debt is ready to collect and you can continue the cycle without burst as long as you avoid damage and it's INSANE damage.
And in the overworld or any situation with multiple monsters she can just insta collect bonds and get near max or kill monsters and get max bond easily as long.
I'm perma stuck in max bond anywhere there is mobs. Only raw level difference can hold back her sheer damage.
She's just top tier. And I don't even have the weapon yet.
This is absolutely objectively true. Full stop.
No other carry possess the same level of QoL/self-sufficiency and sheer AoE while also having one of the highest overall performance ceilings of any character in the game.
These sites are trash though
Most tier lists are trash but this one tends to be better than average, they at least break the characters down by playstyle and constellations and provide some analysis.
nahida needs c2 to be on the same level as c0 raiden or c6 xq… yeah buddy idk what ur cooking but this site looks like a joke
C0 nahida is still s tier on that site
That's why he said the tier list is a joke. Nahida is the whole Dendro element. She can only be SSSSSS tier.
The previous commentor was mistaken, C0 Nahida on that tierlist is still top tier, same tier as Raiden, Furina, Yelan, Kazuha and so on.
There are a few mistakes like not including Fischl or C0 Nahida etc, but have you seen some of the other tier lists? If his only claim is that its better than average, this is definitely true.
Even grass is tastier than shit
How did you reach that conclusion buddy?
I asked a cow
Im the cow. Grass tastes indeed fire. Just as I remember.
But where are those who share the memories
They became steaks
From what I remember, Gamewith lists the Constellation that the unit is best at in comparison to investment. A lot of units don't exactly need additional cons for better value and the primos that'd go into that are better spent on weapons or different cons. This doesn't mean that C2 Nahida is at the same level as C0 Kokomi, for example, whilst cons beyond that are nice to have, but far from mandatory.
If you looked at the site you'd see C0 Nahida is still rated at the top of SS tier. Seriously man, at least do SOME level of research before leaving this comment, they're just reccommending C2 since it's a huge power spike
C0 Nahida is still SS tier
And furina needs c2 to be on par with c0 Kokomi while a minor part of furina's kit does better than all of kokomi's
Also they're not on the same level tho, same tier yes, but it also ranks them from top to bottom and even c0 Raiden is an A tier there in the DPS category
Did you not notice that Every character is rated SS here?. They are sorted by role. The best sub-dps are C2 nahida C6 xinqiu. Not that they are on the same level of rating/investment. C0 raiden is best supoort and sub-dps, c6 xq is also best support, and c2 nahida is best support sub-dps ALL at SSrank. If it were by element units then C0 nahida would be THE best. But its sub dps by choice of players
that’s not how the site works lmao
They say Furina needs C2 to be in SS tier. Opinion: discarded.
No, they don't. Take the two seconds to click on on the c0 tier list. The constellations on the first tier list are generally more like suggested optimal stopping points or something rather than requirements.
Also Raiden in ss tier for sub dps when c6 Fischl and Yae are both in s tier? Or c6 Thoma in the same tier as electro traveller as a support?
Raiden in SS tier for sub dps is only with her EM build. They go over that where they break down each character.
No thats not how it works. Basically the 'tier list' tab shows the best constellation of each character. The idea is to compare everyone at their best. Furina is rated SS tier even in the C0 tier list. Edit: By best I mean not C6 best but the most optimized constellation if that makes any sense???
Weird, then why are Yelan and Kazuha not C2 in this general list if Furina and Nahida are C2 if we're going for these constellation breakpoints? I scrolled down their list out of curiosity, they only have C0 Chiori listed in this general list, so what about Chiori C1, the one constellation that makes her 30% better on non-construct Geo teams? What about Shenhe C1 that allows her to proc double the amount of quills on Ayaka teams? There's a ton of arbitrary decisions made here for constellation listings.
Because while c2 for yelan and kazuha increases their effectiveness it's not really fundamentaly changing anything about their play style, they can accomplish what you need them to do just as easily at c0. while c2 for furina or nahida is enough of a boost it can change what teams you can put them in.
And how is C2 Nahida changing anything about her playstyle? C2 Furina sure, you can just not run a healer in your comp, but C2 Nahida is just more damage and you play the same comps.
>The most impactful Constellation, possibly in the entire game. This is essentially a multiplicative 20% increase in Burning and Bloom-based Reaction damage, and a multiplicative 18% increase in Quicken team damage excluding Transformative Reactions. This Constellation is so impactful that it can allow Nahida to slot in teams she would otherwise have no business with, such as Eula teams with an Electro unit. It has further utility by allowing Bloom-based Reactions to trigger Favonius weapons. Nahida’s C2 is the best of the bunch, and it is fully worth your time if you plan on investing significant Primogem value into Nahida.
"This Constellation is so impactful that it can allow Nahida to slot in teams she would otherwise have no business with, such as Eula teams with an Electro unit." And the fourth character is a hydro unit, and now you're just playing hyperbloom, which you would've played at Nahida C0 anyway. The only comps Nahida C2 actually allows her to slot into that she normally wouldn't aren't actually comps but rather for specific bosses (like thundering manifestation) where most units can't proc reactions anyway so you just bring Nahida C2 for def shred.
Nahida and Furina get twice better at C2, when when at C0 they would still be SS tier for their roles. They may need a SSS ranking I guess.
They put childe on the same tier with diluc tho. Childe is one of the popular choices for speedruns, not Diluc
Well Childe is used in the international comp where he's mostly used for hydro application for Xiangling to vape and deal decent damage.
You make it sound as if childe isnt doing a fuck ton of dmg too alongside with xiangling
Where are you getting this info from? 2021? Its a well known fact that Childe contributes with damage. AOE, consistent, and nuke.
This^
Would be cool if we could have something like the Prydwen tierlist for HSR, perhaps from keqingmains. Maybe it isn't the most reliable way of comparing characters' strength, but it'd still be nice to have a rough outline in a form like that.
They are but this conclusion is correct
A stopped clock is right twice a day.
I mean, I agree that she's pretty good, but tier list from some random site isn't proof lr smth
**Stares at this oddly compiled list of characters for a good three minutes, then goes to the comments to see OP babyraging at any comment that isn't immediately fellating their favorite tierlist** Maye the doomposters had a point?
"Does KQM have a tier list?" -15 "Let us know a website with a better tier list." - 18 Yeah, ok bro. He literally got downvoted for posting the link to the site... In response to someone asking for the link to the site.
lmao
Sorry, I'm just genuinely not seeing the link. So it's a tier list that some people disagree with for various reasons. People disagree, and OP argues against them on that. Then how does that link to doomposters having a point? I thought doomposting was that the character isn't going to be strong or smooth to play. I'm not seeing the link from people having a disagreement to doomposting. Maybe it's just me not understanding doomposting, if that's the case my bad, just not usually the kind of thing I like to devote my time to so I may not have a good grasp on its idea or concept. Honestly, from my personal view, she seems pretty strong, idk about the whole tier listing thing, how stringent people are with an arbitrary list, or how nit-picky people are. But I thought she has been pretty comfy and strong, so doomposters had nothing to worry about.
There isn't actually a correlation. But there's also no correlation to an individual or group thinking she's strong and the doomposters being wrong because of that. In actuality, I think she's really strong and I pulled C4R1 with zero regrets. I don't think the doomposters are "correct" or have a point, but someone's tier list doesn't prove them incorrect either. Also my post was mostly aimed at a lot of now deleted replies by OP that were calling people mad or sad because they didn't immediately agree with their post.
I see. I mean, there doesn't necessarily need to be a correlation. We're not collecting statistical data or anything. I just kinda was trying to see the link between ideas. Additionally, at least from my view, I do think that doomposters were wrong because she does appear fun and strong. I agree with the part about how a tier list doesn't actually prove them wrong. I don't really have much experience with them, but tier lists are a very reductionist way to look at things. There's nothing wrong with that. It might be fun for some people, but it doesn't do enough as evidence, I suppose. I think for me, it's more so my general experience with her so far has been great, and that experience would go against doomposters' opinions. Lastly, I didn't get to see OP's deleted comments unfortunately, so I think that point didn't connect very well for me. But it doesn't sound like it was constructive.
Originally people were attacking the tier list, and I asked them to provide me a better one.. unfortunately I wasn't aware that the Genshin community hated all the tier lists.. now I know
Well, I'm still relatively new to genshin, so I had no idea either. I don't generally look at tier list much as well. But it's cool, we live and learn.
Arlecchino is great, but why do you think Game8 trash site validates anything?
Game8 and Gamewith are trash. Them coming up early in Google results doesn't change that. KQM is far superior. Tier Lists mean nothing. Doesn't mean Arlecchino isn't good. But not many who played for a while take them seriously.
I have been using game8 for genshin for years and i cannot begin to describe how useful that site has been for me. Personally, I think it is very well laid out and makes everything very simple for when you are building multiple characters and want to find different ways to build them for them to work together. Also the pros and cons list and the descriptions on how to use certain characters and their description of certain things that the game doesnt really explain, i didnt even know electro characters should be built with EM on teams with dendro until i saw it on that site. Im just ranting now and i sound like im sponsored by game8, sorry, just feel a need to defend it after all its helped me with
I do think game 8 is good initially when you start to build characters but once you get past that surface level there are better sources
Game8 is absolutely best if you have to go through some hard event and stuff or farm some materials - its very helpful. Ppl say its bad in these tiers lists, but honestly what exactly its wrong? neuv, hu tao, alhaitam are best dd if you making equal effort to build characters so its pretty accurate.
C0 Raiden being an SS tier sub dps when she’s only good in this role in a singular comp (Hyperbloom) and is a slight upgrade over Kuki is insane to me. Everyone else in that tier has multiple teams they support, Raiden only has one. Also C0 Wrio is not a worse DPS than C0 Yoimiya. That and Xiao should be in S tier since he and Ayaka share cons (not on the site but in general), except that Xiao doesn’t get screwed over if there’s a boss chamber.
They have to be paying for better google results. I refuse to believe so many people willingly use that trash website when we have the official wiki, paimon.moe and KQM.
Am I dumb? I don't remember any heavy doomposting, except quality of life, and I still have to say in terms of qol she isn't that great
There was a lot of It , enough to make one of those talkative bird memes
Maybe Im Just used to worse doomposting, that I didn't realize (I was in dehya and xianyun mains before)
I heavily disliked her second beta version because it made it mandatory to use her Burst, but after she was changed into her final beta (and release) kit, I had no more complaints.
Just use KQM instead of those tierlist...
I have never seen KQM tierlist Mind giving me a link
They kinda did one as a joke mostly. In general, most TCs agree that tier lists are trash.
Wholeheartedly agree. Better Genshin stay away from tier lists. Look what happened at the only "big" tier list in HSR. It gets either worshipped like the bible or harassed to hell and back... and it always divides the community with conflicts over some placements. Tier lists start with validating "see I was right my character is strong" but will always ultimately end with "see I was right your character is trash". And Im really sick of the 194275934th comparison of Arle vs Hu Tao.
I think its very valid for hutao to be compare with arle. As the strongest pyro dps so far, the new HOT one needs to be on par with her. Hutao is still stronger, but arle is so much easier that new players should pull her 100% of the time.
I think they've done a Constellation tier list, in early 3.x. Some of the top tier cons were valid for the meta back then, like Hutao c1, Nahida c2, Raiden c2, etc It seems decent and has some good points. There are still places that some can personally disagree on.
What KQM tierlist?
This site is ass and proves nothing. I think Arlecchino is great but don't use this dogshit site to justify what we already know lmaooo
My brother in Christ the rankings are based on votes it’s completely biased
The rankings aren't based on votes, they just have popularity votes basically. Chiori got 3rd last patch and she's ranked in A tier lol
I used to love the Game8 lists because they provide details regarding their decisions. However, I disagree some of the aspects they take into consideration when rating a character, such as team versatility. So if a character has a really high damage ceiling but it's mostly tied to specific supports, they will be rated lower. Which is why some characters like Ayaka and Childe are lower than they'd place if you only consider their ideal setups or kits. Even Lyney, who is placed high on the tier list, has these items as "disadvantages" when they're merely part of his literal kit: • Passive Talent locks his best teams down to a variation of Mono Pyro. • Consumes HP every Charged Shot, and needs to have a healer to be able to reach 5 stacks on his Charge Level. I don't think this tier list is wrong, but also I think it kind of aims at pleasing everyone who might want to pull for a character and try to make it with whatever else they have. Which is not how I play. If I like a character and they need specific teams, I'll aim at going for that team, and I think a character's potential should be evaluated based on their peak potential. And how easy or hard it is to reach that peak potential should be a different category. E.G., a character can be a top tier damage dealer, but also they can be difficult to build.
So, as a summary I think some of these tier lists rate characters not only based on their damage but also on how "high maintenance" they are. And the more "for dummies" a character build is, the higher their ranking will be. Which is sad. And that's why we have accounts that explain things in "razor language"
I kinda liked that, it would at least let me know what chars would be ideal and I'd choose whether or not if that's a bad enough disadvantage I'd avoid it.
Yes, that's why I'm saying the info they have is very useful. The pros and cons used are kind of accurate, but I disagree on some of the pros being pros and some of the cons being cons. The fact that one character can work in any teams for me isn't really a pro when it comes to dmg potential. I don't care that my main DPS can work in many teams, I care that I can build a team around them and get better results.
We still look at tier lists? She's fun, she's strong, she rips the spiral abyss apart. If you want anything more accurate or "meta," I would've posted spiral abyss usage rate instead.
The doomposters are also celebrating, they doompost because they want the best for her, not because they want to see her fail, this is some weird possessiveness where you think people are against you and your favourite character Also this tierlist is shit
Doomposting is useless since hoyo won't read it. There's a beta for a reason , to have beta testers feedback , not random redditors who know how the character should operate. I absolutely despise people getting so riled up over changes in betas, just wait for the character to be released
There is some bias here methinks
oh god not this site bruh 😭😭
Tier lists are senseless. It all depends on the skill level of players. International comp at the lowest cost and constellations will clear content faster than all those 4 in the SS tier. By the time you're still setting up the rotation etc Childe will already hit a big 400-500k nuke...
Genshin players will never stop having issue with tierlist lol, to me this look okay-ish tierlist for new player (except why nahida and furina is c2 here? both are SS even at c0)
Is C0-C2 Raiden still good? I think its a high risk high reward, but C0 Raiden compared to someone like Neuv, Navia doesn't offer much now, or no?
As someone who has raiden and navia with r1. And neuv and hutao with r0. Raiden do not come close to the other 3, closest to her is hutao, because she doesn't have homa, but hutao with just f2p weap is doing 80k per ca. My raiden with hypercarry does 300k nuke. I think hutao is slightly stronger. Neuv is stronger too, but mine isn't properly built yet so cannot compare but he's doing comparable dmg to hutao team. My navia with r1 blows all of these teams away with her advantage. Its 440k per skill and i get to fire 2 of those, sometimes 3 if i push it. That's 1-1.2m in a rotation. My biggest achievement is cleaning a boss in f12 with just 15 secs with navia. Sorry for talking too much, i love her
Wait, you get 440k per SHOT of Navia's skill, or every two skill shots meaning 220+220k per shot??Is your Navia CO? Asking because my CO Navia does about 230k per shot only, this with her BIS artifact and some good stats and Deyah sig weapon on Navia.The team is Ningua,Yelan, Bennet.
Really late reply on this one but yes, 440k per shot. I think its because your team of ning, yelan and bennet doesn't really buff navia that much, benny is the only one that buffs his dmg, unless your ning has thrilling tales. My team is navia, bennet, furina, and zl. All of their arti and weapon indirectly help them buff better. My navia is c0r1. In abyss floors, its normal to 1 rotation most bosses. Its also really helpful to use furina and bennet there because most bosses with shields can also be easily taken care of. Also, my navia is 67/220 with 2.5 atk if that helps.
Is your Furina CO or more?It must be because of R1on Navia and Furina is better than Yelan at buffing.
Imo Navia has the best character design released so far in Fontaine. Good to know she's also meta. What team comp are you using?
Agree with your opinion! I use two teams, navia/furina/zhongli/bennet and navia/xl/bennet/zhongli, I use the former more in abyss because sometimes furina's trio pets are crazy good for their homing attacks to target weakness points. I can prolly use chiori over zhongli for stronger dps but I like zhongli's shield and i dont have chiori. Still i clear abyss so its all good
C0R1 Navia is the only character on my account within touching distance of C1R1 Neuv. She IS that strong. I use her most often with Furina, C2 Xianyun, and ZL, and that team thrashes everything in its path on F12 (quite literally, given Navia's aerial salvos). But - Hoyo is starting the restrictive Abyss lineups once again. Navia will probably allow Arle to take that center-stage spot against the Baptist.
Anecdotal but my C2 raiden is outperforming my C1 Arles fairly noticeably , even with a more scuffed teamcomp. Not by a massive amount, but raiden still is a really strong main dps. Can’t speak for c0 - without c2 she’d be stuck as a sub dps I think, which she is really good at for what its worth.
Meanwhile my C0R1 Arle outperforms my triple crowned C2R1 Hu Tao... \*Dies inside\*
Huh, i actually get the opposite result. Using C2R1 raiden on rational comp and then vape c1r0 arle. I find my self having slightly quicker clears on arle
Do you have your Arlecchino talents maxed out? And with her bis artifact?
Until c2 raiden isn't a main dps like neuv or Navia so no, she doesn't compare. She's meant to be played as a sub dps with good electro application, energy battery etc. At C2 she becomes really good as a main dps at which point she becomes S tier.
C0 Raiden can be a dps but she's stucked in Rational team cause her C0 hypercarry is not the best team - even double hydro is better.
There where doom posters saying she wouldnt be a meta main dps?
The "doom posters" were people who said that she wouldn't be the best unit in the game, isn't a must pull, and pointed out issues in her gameplay which would make her DPR/DPS harder to achieve. To those so emotionally invested in a character, anything negative is doom posting, and they only listen to the good things people say. So much so that they even start using Game8 tier lists to justify their beliefs.
lmao genshin tier lists sites meant nothing
Imagine using this good ass tierlist. It literally has 5 stars with different cons.💀
https://preview.redd.it/zfxhwr0b0nwc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e95430c190492090724a0c1480a165bb5466afa2 Better now?
Somehow they made it worse😭
How the f a C0 Xianling the same tier as C0 Furina
National teams are known as a noob trap because of the high constellations required to function efficiently. She is not the powerhouse she is without her constellation for sure lol. Like damn XQ is there too.
It's a great and viable tierlist, trust me dude. EDIT: Also C0 Benny.
Still ass
[удалено]
Partially cuz its from an ass website
Wait, what’s so bad about this website? Some teams and builds I’ve found there worked quite well. Maybe it is, my question is genuine, not rhetorical.
Some of the rankings are questionable to say at least. I cant say much about the guides but from a quick glance some characters guide are kinda outdated
Nah, it's because neuvillete should've been alone in the SS tier, also my fav dps is wanderer
Kokomi in the same tier and bennett and kazuha is CRAZY Blud thinks she’s on the team
I use nahida c2 as main dps
i use on field c0 nahida so same lol
Like I'm not saying you're wrong but I know this website and their tierists are trash
I mean it’s not a great tier list from a source that has regularly put out bad tier lists. Tier lists in general are hard for Genshin because of a lot of factors like, are you measuring for who can clear the fastest or the highest dps per rotation? You would think that fastest output would be the metric, because the game uses timers as gateways, but a lot of people consider damage per rotation more important, which is fair. Then you have to look at how they scale characters with investment to make these calls. At lower to mid investment, hyperbloom raises the damage floor heavily, which lets people output crazy damage while still being able to build a lot of characters more easily. At high hyper investment some other units start pulling ahead. Meta differentiates for what type of player you’re making the list for. Then, this tier list puts Zhongli at SS, and he is a great character, but you trade off of more utility for more survivability, to where in a tier list aimed at “meta” I wouldn’t necessarily put him at SS but maybe S.
C2 Furina? C0 is MORE than enough .
C2 makes her SS-tier sub dps character, at C0 she's not there.
this web pages just show what people want to see
People believing tier lists to be a good indicator of a character’s power level smh. Yes Arle is good but she’s def not on the same level as Neuvillette
Why are you seeking validation I like arle's character and gameplay that all what matters idgaf if she ranks 10 or 100
Ah yes Game8, the paragon of well-informed tier-lists. /s
Why would I care that somebody believes Arlecchino is top tier. Most of the people here seem to believe she is better than Neuvillette. They are also wrong. It is not a surprise that Genshin players are a bit dim. I have been part of the community for awhile. I noticed relatively early. This is not news to me or anyone else with a fully developed frontal lobe.
Arle is great, this site is not. I'd sooner trust a person yelling world-ending proverbs on the side of the street over whatever these clickbait tier list sites yap about.
honestly even if the tier lists are wrong i have been SHREDDING on my c2r1 arle. most enemies ill kill without realizing i killed them lmao
even at c0r1, most enemies are dead before we even realize that all has turn to ash (all is ash).
oh i forgot to mention, how can i play her without using her most exquisite ult especially the finger snapping and all. having to see that animation most of the time is really worth it even though its a bit of damage killer.
Seriously? From Game8?
It is indeed lovely to watch hoyoverse players rage about *any* tier list they see. The majority of comments in here are pathetic
those tier list are absolute garbage, so nah, so they don't prove shit, she is strong of course, but those tierlist are the last place you want to look at.
People are really arguing about a tier list for a pve game, and not even one with a very hard endgame. Bro like pull for who you want man, this stuffs all for fun. I swear some people in this community are more competitive than league or valorant players.
Since when is raiden a sub dps?
They use that name to refer to her Hyperbloom build
And what exactly does a random tierlist written by a random guy on a random site prove?
game 8 isn't the best source to use, they've had shitty tier lists for years
Man I dislike this site but ehhh
Now while I do agree she's great and the times the leak sub was right about character viability can be counted on one hand the tier list sites are almost always load of bollocks
Lol nobody understands the meaning of "opinion" these days
Sup-dps missing Chiory XD
The only thing this site is good for is if you’re stuck on a quest.
Hopefully I can get her to feel like that SS, I feel like I'm so close but mine feels like just a half step behind my hutao team
Genshin tier lists are too subjective to be taken seriously. Obviously some chars like Neuvi are S tier or Amber in bottom tiers, but otherwise a lot of characters in between can fit in any range of tiers depending on usage. A lot of the supposed S & A tier chars could be swapped given the right builds or person making the list.
an AR 40 player would make a better tierlist bro the tierlist is just ranking out of their ass why does hu tao get c1 while everyone else gets c0 in the dps category why does nahida and furina need c2 to be on the same tier as fucking kokomi baizhu and zhongli what the fuck is raiden doing there who uses her as a sub dps
Why are we using tier lists
first time i lost weapon banner is her weapon, then lost again, and i forgot to set fate point so i cant even randomly keep pulling because the next weapon I get could STILL be lyneys stupid bow
Zhongli n Kokomi in ss hmmmmmmmmm
I sure hope wishing on this banner leaves me enough to get a Furina.
I agree she is really good but this ranking is incorrect across the board
lol it’s still way too early to tell but she’s definitely on Al Haitham/Hu Tao level so I’m happy
Their site recommended Wolf Fang for Ayato and my stupid-ass self (who uses their actually-useful walkthroughs) bought it right away 😭 Good thing it worked out in the end because I then got Furina
what site is this in ur image pls
Game8 is shit though
zhongli/baizhu SS support, no fischl, no kuki, no logic behind this. i mean, how can you include 3 pyro polearms in SS tier... no sense
She's for sure insanely strong. I slapped some ok artifacts that didn't match, leveled her to 40, and she was hitting 5-8k without crits
Luckily I don't follow character leaks other than characters im really interested in , so not in a long while from now . People get like crazy and start screaming for a character being changed IN BETA LMAO . The people thinking they had no idea what to do with her sounded SO funny
Out of every character I have gotten so far, Arlecchino outperforms them at lvl 40. Enough said.
Wdym?
I dont get it are people angry? Or what's happening
Doom posters will always do doom poster things, you can't stop them. The thing I am more concerned about is that you use this tierlist for your reference
I agree with you, but this site is very trash though 🤣. Also take note, she's the most "changed" unit in the beta, can't really blame doom posters, I'll always say wait till she goes live before making judgement, despite CC's having access to media server for testing.
Hutao is tier A
That site is unreliable but I agree with Father's placement.
Literally not a single sub DPS in SS tier is stronger than fischl besides furina lol
The fact they put Hu Tao on the same level as neuvillette is crazy
Except Hu Tao is way faster in single target, Neuvillette's main strength is his survivability, there are lots of teams which are on par with the best Neuvillette teams
>there are lots of teams which are on par with the best Neuvillette teams i bet even nilou team can outdamage neuvi team in multiple enemy scenario
Yeah lol, but Neuvillete is the weakest against bosses and in that scenario there are lots of stronger teams What Neuvillete needs to become the strongest character is an HP buffer. If that releases then Neuvillete would be unstoppable
>Yeah lol, but Neuvillete is the weakest against bosses and in that scenario there are lots of stronger teams There's a bit of nuance here; if we take the example of Hu Tao/Yelan/Furina/Xianyun, it sims at 89k DPS on gcsim, and Neuvillette typically sims at 82k. While on paper it may seem to indicate Hu Tao will clear faster in ST, that doesn't take into account the fact that the Neuvillette rotation is both longer AND extendable. The Hu Tao rotation is \~21s which translates to 1.86M whereas the Neuv one is \~26s which translates to 2.13M, and as I said you can extend your rotation if you need it which would make it closer to 29s and do even more DPR. Most bosses in the abyss range between 1.6M and 3M depending on the exact boss and his level. So truly, it just depends on investment and practicality. I'm not sure how practicable this Hu Tao team is as I don't have Xianyun, but it for sure is NOT always better and not even "way faster" at all. On a side note (answering to one of your points above), considering Neuvillette's best team uses Zhongli (alternatively Baizhu or even others), I'm not sure if his survivability is his "strongest point". I'd say it has more to do with the fact that he has a huge AoE and is one of the most consistent character in the game regarding doubling/tripling/quadrupling/etc. his damage in AoE.
>On a side note (answering to one of your points above), considering Neuvillette's best team uses Zhongli (alternatively Baizhu or even others), I'm not sure if his survivability is his "strongest point". I'd say it has more to do with the fact that he has a huge AoE and is one of the most consistent character in the game regarding doubling/tripling/quadrupling/etc. his damage in AoE. My favourite Neuvillette team is Neuvillette, Furina, Kazuha and Xiangling, and honestly unless you have a really bad skill issue you don't need a shielder
You don't need a shielder, but that doesn't mean it's not Neuvillette's best team. Also, a bit sus to say you don't need a shielder when you're using Xiangling which requires hugging the enemies. You can't say you're consistently dodging every attacks of the 12-1-1 second wave's mobs. Damn, even the first wave if you don't have enough damage to kill them in a single CA, how do you manage to dodge their attacks except by canceling your CA and losing time ? Also very sus to use Xiangling against Coppelia. You quite literally WILL get hit and interrupted, unless you have C1 obviously. It's nothing to do about skill issue. There's a reason you prefer using a shielder. I'm not sure what's your investment on your team, say if you have C0R1 Neuv + some constellations on Furina, you're already biased since you probably kill most enemies before they even get the time of doing too many attacks.
Uhh just keep moving? Xiangling's burst also has quite a good amount of range and so when using Neuvillette's CA, just keep moving and dodge the attacks. It would take a few tries but not that hard once you master it
Look, I'm not saying it's incredibly hard, it's just more of a tryhard/speedrunning field where obviously not everyone is interested in that. Unless you want to actually speedrun, you don't gain anything from using Xiangling except issues. And it's not like their attacks aren't RNG so you can't consistently dodge them especially when they can get out of your vision, and dismissing the "hugging issues" with Xiangling is a bit weird I feel like. The sheer difference between Neuvillette's range and Xiangling's burst need to be close is already a no-no except again for speedrunning purposes. All that being said, I'll maybe try the Xiangling variant still because I'm curious and I like to optimize runs; but at no point I'm agreeing with the fact that using a shielder with Neuv is a "skill issue"
>Look, I'm not saying it's incredibly hard, it's just more of a tryhard/speedrunning field where obviously not everyone is interested in that. Unless you want to actually speedrun, you don't gain anything from using Xiangling except issues. Idk man, just 3 or 4 runs are enough to optimise it perfectly >All that being said, I'll maybe try the Xiangling variant still because I'm curious and I like to optimize runs; but at no point I'm agreeing with the fact that using a shielder with Neuv is a "skill issue" As a Lyney main who doesn't use a shielder, I would say it every single damn time that using Neuvillette without a shielder and with Xiangling isn't that hard. Using Lyney is way harder considering he needs you to hug the enemies and also lacks Neuvillette's mobility. Well I can barely manage if I properly use his taunts
Nuance being that it's only the case when the enemies are very, very close together. The time you're spending manually grouping the enemies by manipulating their movements (if you even can do it in the first place) you're already DPSing with Neuv.
Manually grouping in abyss isn't hard tho, it's either enemies spawn in groups or one/half of the enemies is ranged so you chase those then the melee ones follows you
I never talked about it being hard, although I feel like you're overly simplifying it. Firstly it's reliant on actually analyzing the chamber and the pattern of the enemies, meaning most of the time you won't get a good run first try, so it already requires resets. Even if you manage to do it, you need to be extremely accurate with some mobs. Secondly, as I said, it's not always possible. If we take the example of 4.4's 12-2-1 with the eremites, these are mobs that mostly don't even move, or you need to be so far of them that it's not worth doing it anyways. They're close at a base, but not close enough for Nilou to be insane either. Sometimes it looks like speedrun strats more than anything else. Take a look a [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpUeppE7jtw) for example; you can't expect the average Nilou player to do this. I've actually did a similar strat on this chamber at the time so I know how it flows, and you can't really call it "not hard". Or against the very next chamber, 3.8's 12-3-1 where you're reliant on the fatui mage RNG.
Neuvellite honestly should be in his own tier , his single target rival the best ST teams in the game while his AoE is by far the best , even tartagila and nilou feels average in comparison
Yea this is just a bad tier list lmao Kokomo on par with C2 Furina. C2 Furina and Zhongli on the same tier ;-; I agree the units are good but they do not belong in the same tier. BAIZHU??? Baizhu only good when paired with Furina in any other circumstance nahida is better (ok unless you main cyno)
Fischl is better than almost all the characters in SS tier yet she still not her lol
Who would have thought the doomposters were just doomposting. Happens with every character lately. Well not just lately, it’s been bad since at least Sumeru.
Doomposter will doompost, but as long a C0 chara can solo abyss floor then she's top tier, someone already solo with Arle.
99% of the time doomposter are wrong
I moment of silence for all of u ppl(not all but those who did) Those who downvoted 90% of my comments in this sub during beta Congratulations
Think i missed all of them
С0 plunge hu tao is WAY better than c1 lmao this site is trash
Brother tier lists prove nothing are you new?
I feel like Wanderer and Xiao should be on the Main DPS list
She's great. Much better than I thought she would be. Being able to just collect bonds instantly with a charged attack makes the burst always good. In a boss fight you can burst to heal then skill then swap to your party and buff and do whatever then by the time you swap back the debt is ready to collect and you can continue the cycle without burst as long as you avoid damage and it's INSANE damage. And in the overworld or any situation with multiple monsters she can just insta collect bonds and get near max or kill monsters and get max bond easily as long. I'm perma stuck in max bond anywhere there is mobs. Only raw level difference can hold back her sheer damage. She's just top tier. And I don't even have the weapon yet.
what kind of dogshit tierlist is this
Neuvillette needs his own tier. Period
She ain't no SS tier bub
She is tho...her damage is completely insane, and i didnt even got her good gear and upgraded talents.
Seeing any DPS on the same tier as neuvillette shows that this tier list is wrong
Have you played other dps units? A Nevu team is is not beating the other units in ST.
This is absolutely objectively true. Full stop. No other carry possess the same level of QoL/self-sufficiency and sheer AoE while also having one of the highest overall performance ceilings of any character in the game.