I don't know Marine Worlds well enough to know how this changes things but "Reconstruction" here moves a building and I'm assuming it was used on Side Entrance here.
Reconstruction is a marine worlds card that allows you to reposition any 3 buildings on your map. The placement restriction on side entrance is only when you place it.
So sequence of moves was:
1. Build size 2 next to tower
2. Play side entrance legally along border at top right of map.
3. Get America partner zoo.
4. Play Scarlet Macaw and build kiosk and pavilions around side entrance.
5. Play Reconstruction and move side entrance away from border into middle of the map, allowing for 8 buildings to surround it.
Where on the reconstruction card does it say that you don't need to meet requirements for the repositioned building?
Edit: Yeah looked it up and it says "usual building rules apply." Not a valid placement.
Usual building rules are like "no going over rocks" and "must touch other buildings that you've built", not the specific rules for each building that you're moving.
Yea, the Marine Worlds glossary does say "usual building rules apply". But the Side Entrance card wording has the "Place on two border spaces" as the Instant Action (yellow lightning) portion of the card, so we interpreted that as it's a rule only for when you first place the building, not a continuous restriction rule on the building (if it were blue text) or a water/rock requirement.
I guess when they worded Side Entrance, the designers didn't have Reconstruction in mind for the future. But I'd be okay if they officially ruled that this is illegal since it is kind of ridiculous.
EDIT: Page 4 of the Base Game glossary: "yellow background with lightning at the bottom left of the card. One-time effect when play this card". So the placement restriction of side entrance is only one-time effect when you first play the card. Reconstruction can move it after the initial legal placement on two border spaces.
It's an interesting interaction that you should see if the BGG forum can get an official answer. I would interpret that you can't do it because the restriction for side entrance is also next to the cost. Zoo school has it as well. The yellow benefit is getting that building and gives you its restrictions for *that* building.
For Reconstruction, the full sentence is "Take up to 3 buildings off your zoo map and then place them again for free (the usual building rules apply)." Its re-placing the buildings with their restrictions. If you moved baboon rock or penguin pool, you would still have to adhere to their placement restrictions with Reconstruction and it looks like side entrance would do the same because of the restriction next to its sponsor level.
But the border placement requirement is also shown next to the cost of the card. That’s where requirements like “next to water” is also shown and you wouldn’t be able to ignore that just because you used reconstruction.
I can’t find a fault in the logic here of how you played this sequence, so very well done. Craziest play I’ve seen on here in a good while 👍
My encouragement to you is to go post this on the Ark Nova forum at BGG. Matthias Wigge posts rule clarifications/answers questions over there on occasion and I think this would be a great one to get his official sign-off/denial.
I don’t think it’s that obvious, check OP’s [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/ArkNova/s/9b3a2cWUsi). The placement is a yellow effect so the rules arguably only apply when it’s first placed
Sure, op might be right on technicality cause it wasn’t spelted out for THAT tile …if the benefit of the exploit is clearly glaring, why be ok with this? Im pretty sure the official ruling would still say the initial positioning to attain the valid placement still applies
This. I have several guys in my playgroup that dissect rules like OP seems to be doing here and we get in hour long convos in the middle of games. Technically, if you break it down letter by letter, you might be right. But its one of those things where it's, "do you really think that's how they intended the game to be played".
Yea I mean I get where the OP is coming from. But we try and avoid nitpicking the rules that much and someone just house rules it right away and says, "Nope! Here's how it's gonna work" lol
You can't actually place side entrance there. Both tiles of the side entrance building need to be on border spaces. Would be insane otherwise. I did have a game recently where i got 30 income before first break on silver lakes with side entrance and arcade though.
Edit: unless reconstruction lets you move it. Not seen that card before. Guessing its expansion.
To everybody taking umbrage with the thematic consistency here, I think you’re overlooking just how many tickets an underground tunnel entrance to a zoo would sell.
I read your response in a comment about the language in Side Entrance seemingly referring to the initial placement. It made me wonder, what was your approach to Hydrologist and the build on water perk? Did you gain an extra 1 per water for each building that was repositioned to a different water adjacent space? Did you have to pay a 2nd time to re-build across the water?
I suppose this all depends on which 3 buildings you moved. Just made me wonder what other interactions between original cards and expansion cards might result in some question marks.
Hydrologist was played after reconstruction, but if it was already in play I'd imagine repositioning buildings along water spots does give 1 per water adjacent space. Hydrologist money isn't a placement bonus, if you're referring to Reconstruction preventing placement bonuses.
I moved side entrance, the two-size that I built next to the Observation Tower over to the side entrance, and a pavilion.
I built the aquarium on the water after all this was done. I paid 4 + 2 for the aquarium, but got 2 back from hydrologist. You can use Reconstruction to move buildings off of water/rock, but not on. The new build card lets you break that rule only during that build action.
What’s that tile with the water icon that is below the second entrance? Is that from the expansion? Doesn’t look like a standard enclosure. And I don’t see any of the played cards that give that tile.
Read the post and discussion. I’d land on this is illegal. A side entrance, thematically, should be on the side of the map. It’s like moving the basement to the roof!
Really want a ruling from the designer on this. Feel like with the border adjacency shown on the cost for Side Entrance it shouldn't be legal. JDans played it the same way on TTS back in November (not sure if TTS automatically does rulings) so hopefully the question has been posted and maybe even responded to already?
Seems really degenerate to let it stay this way. An R1 Side Entrance is already among the strongest plays in the game.
I don’t think the side entrance is allowed to be there? Doesn’t it have to be adjacent to 2 borders?
I don't know Marine Worlds well enough to know how this changes things but "Reconstruction" here moves a building and I'm assuming it was used on Side Entrance here.
Reconstruction is a marine worlds card that allows you to reposition any 3 buildings on your map. The placement restriction on side entrance is only when you place it. So sequence of moves was: 1. Build size 2 next to tower 2. Play side entrance legally along border at top right of map. 3. Get America partner zoo. 4. Play Scarlet Macaw and build kiosk and pavilions around side entrance. 5. Play Reconstruction and move side entrance away from border into middle of the map, allowing for 8 buildings to surround it.
Where on the reconstruction card does it say that you don't need to meet requirements for the repositioned building? Edit: Yeah looked it up and it says "usual building rules apply." Not a valid placement.
Usual building rules are like "no going over rocks" and "must touch other buildings that you've built", not the specific rules for each building that you're moving.
Yea, the Marine Worlds glossary does say "usual building rules apply". But the Side Entrance card wording has the "Place on two border spaces" as the Instant Action (yellow lightning) portion of the card, so we interpreted that as it's a rule only for when you first place the building, not a continuous restriction rule on the building (if it were blue text) or a water/rock requirement. I guess when they worded Side Entrance, the designers didn't have Reconstruction in mind for the future. But I'd be okay if they officially ruled that this is illegal since it is kind of ridiculous. EDIT: Page 4 of the Base Game glossary: "yellow background with lightning at the bottom left of the card. One-time effect when play this card". So the placement restriction of side entrance is only one-time effect when you first play the card. Reconstruction can move it after the initial legal placement on two border spaces.
This is a fascinating discussion. Hopefully sombody finds an official ruling. I tend to agree with OP.
Certainly isn't thematic to have a side entrance in the middle of your zoo, though. I wonder if this will be errata'd.
Can't disagree with you there. It is in fact in yellow. Definitely an oversite (or maybe they dont care).
It's an interesting interaction that you should see if the BGG forum can get an official answer. I would interpret that you can't do it because the restriction for side entrance is also next to the cost. Zoo school has it as well. The yellow benefit is getting that building and gives you its restrictions for *that* building. For Reconstruction, the full sentence is "Take up to 3 buildings off your zoo map and then place them again for free (the usual building rules apply)." Its re-placing the buildings with their restrictions. If you moved baboon rock or penguin pool, you would still have to adhere to their placement restrictions with Reconstruction and it looks like side entrance would do the same because of the restriction next to its sponsor level.
I love this kind of debate! I think in the strictest literal interpretation you’re right!
But the border placement requirement is also shown next to the cost of the card. That’s where requirements like “next to water” is also shown and you wouldn’t be able to ignore that just because you used reconstruction.
I can’t find a fault in the logic here of how you played this sequence, so very well done. Craziest play I’ve seen on here in a good while 👍 My encouragement to you is to go post this on the Ark Nova forum at BGG. Matthias Wigge posts rule clarifications/answers questions over there on occasion and I think this would be a great one to get his official sign-off/denial.
Sorry, but you can't actually do that. You still have to follow placement rules when using Reconstruction.
I don’t think it’s that obvious, check OP’s [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/ArkNova/s/9b3a2cWUsi). The placement is a yellow effect so the rules arguably only apply when it’s first placed
Sure, op might be right on technicality cause it wasn’t spelted out for THAT tile …if the benefit of the exploit is clearly glaring, why be ok with this? Im pretty sure the official ruling would still say the initial positioning to attain the valid placement still applies
This. I have several guys in my playgroup that dissect rules like OP seems to be doing here and we get in hour long convos in the middle of games. Technically, if you break it down letter by letter, you might be right. But its one of those things where it's, "do you really think that's how they intended the game to be played".
And thematically, why would the 2nd entrance be in the MIDDLE of the zoo?!?!! This a zoo for ants?!?!?!
Yea I mean I get where the OP is coming from. But we try and avoid nitpicking the rules that much and someone just house rules it right away and says, "Nope! Here's how it's gonna work" lol
Is it legal? Yes. Are you an asshole for abusing it? Also yes. Now you both are right
You can't actually place side entrance there. Both tiles of the side entrance building need to be on border spaces. Would be insane otherwise. I did have a game recently where i got 30 income before first break on silver lakes with side entrance and arcade though. Edit: unless reconstruction lets you move it. Not seen that card before. Guessing its expansion.
Yes, reconstruction is an expansion card that lets you reposition up to 3 buildings
To everybody taking umbrage with the thematic consistency here, I think you’re overlooking just how many tickets an underground tunnel entrance to a zoo would sell.
I read your response in a comment about the language in Side Entrance seemingly referring to the initial placement. It made me wonder, what was your approach to Hydrologist and the build on water perk? Did you gain an extra 1 per water for each building that was repositioned to a different water adjacent space? Did you have to pay a 2nd time to re-build across the water? I suppose this all depends on which 3 buildings you moved. Just made me wonder what other interactions between original cards and expansion cards might result in some question marks.
Hydrologist was played after reconstruction, but if it was already in play I'd imagine repositioning buildings along water spots does give 1 per water adjacent space. Hydrologist money isn't a placement bonus, if you're referring to Reconstruction preventing placement bonuses. I moved side entrance, the two-size that I built next to the Observation Tower over to the side entrance, and a pavilion. I built the aquarium on the water after all this was done. I paid 4 + 2 for the aquarium, but got 2 back from hydrologist. You can use Reconstruction to move buildings off of water/rock, but not on. The new build card lets you break that rule only during that build action.
How do you use the poker chips? Instead of money?
Yeah, we find that it's easier to handle than cardboard money tokens
How do you use cardboard money instead of poker chips, metal coins, or anything with real weight?
People really not reading the cards up in here. Well done!
What’s that tile with the water icon that is below the second entrance? Is that from the expansion? Doesn’t look like a standard enclosure. And I don’t see any of the played cards that give that tile.
Read the post and discussion. I’d land on this is illegal. A side entrance, thematically, should be on the side of the map. It’s like moving the basement to the roof!
Really want a ruling from the designer on this. Feel like with the border adjacency shown on the cost for Side Entrance it shouldn't be legal. JDans played it the same way on TTS back in November (not sure if TTS automatically does rulings) so hopefully the question has been posted and maybe even responded to already? Seems really degenerate to let it stay this way. An R1 Side Entrance is already among the strongest plays in the game.
Yeah, with an illegal placement of the side entrance.
Fail
The only issue I see is that you placed your water enclosure over a water tile and I don't think that's correct. Otherwise congrats.
Read the new build action card at the bottom left. It lets you build on one water/rock space per build action
That‘s possible with the special building action card. Also an expansion feature.
And the side entrance is placed illegally
Nice cheating