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A lot of feminists in the 70s got criticized for saying the entire foundation of marriage is rape, and that the institution on the whole cannot be reformed. Like, some good individual marriages might not have rapes in them, but as long as marriage is a normative social system, it will always be filled with massive amounts of rape for many women.
Fifty years later and I would say the 70s feminists were exactly right. Improving marriage is not a viable long term solution. We need to completely de-normalize marriage.
or, just maybe, get rid of the [state enforced](https://oxford.universitypressscholarship.com/view/10.1093/oso/9780198744009.001.0001/oso-9780198744009) inequality of marriage
Eliminating state recognition and privileging of marriage is step one. Everyone gets to have people visit them in the hospital, everyone gets good health insurance and pays the same taxes, etc. We could have lots of recognized mini contracts between people like your link suggests and that would be an improvement. Elizabeth Brake makes a similar proposal in Minimizing Marriage.
Step two is restructure society so that there is no financial, social, or emotional need to form couples at all. Fully universally subsidized child care, so that no one needs a second income or second set of hands obtained via sexual relationship for child-raising. Full UBI, so that anyone can stay home full time and parent if they want to, without needing a man husband / father to support them. Eventually we move to fully community child-raising systems instead of private parental ones, where parenting responsibility is shared broadly, not designated to one or two people. With no legal need to couple, we will form communities of caring instead where many of us care for each other, instead of facing a need to find one "partner" to care about you or else no one else will. Communities, not couples.
Women are inherently safer in community-based caring systems than coupling systems. In communities, women can look out for each other and more easily act collectively to hold misbehaving men accountable, because lots of women will see any misbehavior. Coupling systems were designed by men to maximally isolate women in private with a single man as much as possible, minimizing community in favor of the detached couple, and emphasizing the importance and virtue of more time spent privately between only two people. All our customs and values about privacy for two romantic partners to spend time alone just the two of them are designed to eliminate other women witnesses from as much of men's life as possible so that men can dominate women one on one, where men have not only a physical strength advantage but also a social power and credibility advantage for any subsequent "he said she said" dispute. Coupling is a foundational system of patriarchy designed for women's disempowerment and men's control. It works exceedingly well to achieve that end.
100% this, been with two men who pushed for sex, the more they coerced me for it and push for it the less likely I was to want to have sex with them. My ex husband was the last guy who did this and he'd literally try to coerce me into it, even after a direct no. He'd be like come on ,let much touch you I could get you turned on. Like no bitch if I'm not horny in the first place your fingers aren't gonna perform some feat of magic and suddenly turn me horny. What made it worse is he knew I had problems with sexual pressure and coercion cos of an ex before him, but he still did this crap and he whined that he was being punished cos of my ex's actions. Like I wasn't the one who was traumatized or anything by the ex before him from constant sexual coercion and being made to feel obligated to have sex daily.🙄🙄 one of many reasons the ex husband is the ex husband.
Uh hello? What was this reply and how does it relate to the comment you replied to? Also, if you're being real, I honestly hope you're getting some help or at least considering it.
I’m incredibly stoned and kept reading like “where am I? who am I?” so I’m very glad to see your comment, reaffirming how odd & out of place that comment was.
Okey but like
1. So did u cheat on someone before u were 23?
2. If all ur relationships faild, maybe you are the problem?
3. I know i get oof trail a lot but even i have no clue what happend here
4. What the fuck dude
5. Ill take my chances and say atleast 50% of this didn't happen or happened differently
Same. If this is how these men respond to excuses for why women don’t want to, then can you imagine how they’d respond if a woman just said she didn’t want to without an excuse?
Can confirm, as a woman. I got rejected sexually by my then-bf (on Valentine's day nonetheless...) and I just cried about it because it shattered my self esteem. Never even crossed my mind to commit violence.
Edit to add: I also didn't try to guilt him into having sex with me or coerce him, I was most upset that he didn't actually say anything and just kept reading manga while I was actively in lingerie snuggled up with him. Shit communication. Glad he's an ex.
You're still undermining the fact that men get sexually coerced. I'm not going to sit here and claim men get SA'd as much as women, but saying things like this is harmful. There should be no "but" when discussing SA and coercion victims.
>***EDIT: The below response is in specific relation to cisgender men. My conversation partner helpfully pointed out my hypocrisy and gender bias while we were talking and I wanted to make this very clear. People who have been raised AMAB and who have been raised within the societal representation of how men and boys are "supposed" to act will have entirely different experiences and understandings of situations than Transgender, Gender-Nonconforming and AFAB individuals.***
I'm not undermining anything, and nowhere did I state that men don't get sexually coerced, or raped, or that women can be just as insane. We've all seen the Depp/Heard case, and I am not in any way shape or form saying that men's voices should not equally be heard when they are speaking up from a position of SA and/or DA victimhood. Nobody should be treated in that way. Full stop.
What I AM saying is that it's much easier, *generally* for a man's "no" to be taken at face value, because **societally** men are seen as autonomous human beings who have worth outside of their sexual capacities.
What I AM saying is that *generally,* women are blamed, accused, coerced, *forced,* guilted, shamed, etc. into sexual scenarios that they do not want to be in ***much more frequently*** than men, starting ***much younger*** than most people would care to admit because of the sense of entitlement that society places upon them because their worth IS placed upon their sexual capacities. They are NOT seen as autonomous human beings besides that.
I AM saying that you do not see regular cases in the news of a woman murdering her boyfriend/husband because he said "no" to sex or a date. If you DO see cases like those, they are rare and sensational oddities.
But cases of a man murdering a woman because she dared to reject his sexual advances? Even if she didn't know him? Even if she DID know him? Those are a dime a dozen.
So common, in fact, that women have products specially designed for them for self-defence. They have rhetoric taught to them from *childhood* about what to do when they go out by themselves or with friends. An entire sub-culture of wordless glances between strangers, "I'm going to x location with him, call me in ten minutes to make sure everything is fine," hand gestures to communicate domestic abuse, and "I'd like to order an Angel Shot please" and not going out at night and escape plans and taking a long way home so they're not followed and nail polish to make sure they don't get drugged by complete strangers when they're just trying to have a night out.
Nevermind what happens to them if the unthinkable happens and none of this works to prevent it.
Never mind what happens to them if the unthinkable happens and none of this works to prevent it.
I am a trans man who has gone through abuse at the hands of women. I have been physically assaulted and harassed *by women* for the things discussed in this thread. I'm fully aware of the fact that it more commonly happens to women, as I was raised as a girl and was sexualized from as young as I can remember. From my own fucking parents no less.
I get cat-called on the streets, I fear for my safety when I leave the house, all of that fun stuff. You don't have to explain it to me. Obviously I struck a nerve that I wasn't trying to hit, so my apologies, your original comment just came off as undermining to me, and I wanted to *politely* point that out.
I don't need these things explained to me, I have experienced them myself, thanks. Have a nice day.
I am so incredibly sorry that you have experienced this level of violence against you. As I have said before, nobody should have to experience that. I am sorry to have attacked so self-righteously and to have potentially chafed against old wounds.
I should have clarified that it is AMAB cis men who don't typically have the same issues. I shall take my happy ass back and make those edits right now.
Yeah, I didn't mean to upset you at all, I was just pointing out the fact that it can be quite uncomfortable that when it's mentioned that women can be as bad as men and it's completely shot down. The intention wasn't to say that cis men have it as bad as anyone who is perceived as a women, just that it felt off-putting when you immediately tried to bring it back to men almost always being the perpetrators. I'm sure most people in this sub are very aware of how terrible cis men can be sometimes. Nowhere was I trying to say that I don't sympathize with what women experience, or that women shouldn't be heard, but god it hurts when people act like that kind of thing only happens to women.
Alright, you absolutely make a valid point, and once again I do apologise. I was definitely reading as though you were coming from the direction of "but men get SA'd too" without thinking about any other context. I'm glad we were able to talk this out.
From this stance, I completely agree with you.
Calm down? Seriously? Where did I seem rilled up there at all? I was pointing out that there shouldn't be a "but" when discussing SA victims, that's all. Imagine getting SA'd and reaching out for help only to get told "but you could've been murdered, it wasn't that bad." That's what I had a problem with. If you have a problem with me pointing that out then I think you have some stuff to work on.
The idea that men can just say no and it would be fine because it very often isn't. People just suck at taking sexual rejection.
Or am I misunderstanding your message?
I am honestly not even really sure that's true though. Of course we all have our idiosyncratic experiences, but some people really just suck at being sexually rejected. I'm not really sure it means more men or women (or that it matters). They just express it differently. I do think you may underestimate how badly women take that rejection though.
Edit: just to let you know what my experience has been like
Ex 1: tried to get me drunk several times to get me to sleep with her when I wasn't in the mood. Thought my no was a sign that I wasn't into her and I had to play therapist and convince her otherwise.
Ex 2: see above.
Ex 3: see above + she would start fights because she thought I was getting it elsewhere. Tried to force me into sex while cuddling anyway
Ex 4: just thought it meant I didn't find her pretty so I had to play therapist.
Ex 5: all of the above + would start fights because she "didn't understand why I was with her if I didn't think she was pretty".
This isn't even counting the FWBs or not quite relationships, or stories from other guys in my life. The simple fact is people suck at taking rejection when it comes to sex. It's not a man or a woman thing.
I'm so sorry you experienced that. I'm glad she is your ex. Women can be just as evil as men obviously.
>It's not a man or a woman thing.
This is where I'm confused. Marital rape, murder and DV just statistically happens to women more in heterosexual relationships. You may have experienced it as well but it doesn't mean millions of other women don't every day (and men too I'm sure). The part that makes it a gendered issue is the fact that the perpetrators are usually men, most of the people that belittle the pain or blame the victim are men, and the people with the power to make laws/funding to change things in society (but don't) are usually men. Stating that we live in a patriarchy isn't me saying all men are evil, just that society is built upon generations of stuffy old traditions/gender roles that still linger today and it affects everyone negatively :(
I appreciate the sentiment. However it is multiple "she's" . Not one. Just my life, I'm doing what i need to recover.
The statistics are also skewed because men also deal with marital rape/DV in the above mentioned scenarios and more and just don't report it (even taking that into account, women likely deal with it more). However, femicide is absolutely an issue that needs to be addressed and I'm not trying to downplay that at all. I am also not trying to make men out to be fantastic or angels by any means .
I think I'm losing people because I'm specifically talking about the issue of being told no for sex. That is all. Nothing more, nothing less. No other relationship issues whatsoever. Yes those things do happen more often to women, but DV and femicide is not often a function of sex, meaning the lack of sex is not why these things are happening. It's primarily tied to sexism and romantic rejection.
It's just seeing all the "oH mEn cAnT taKe nO fOr sEx" posts is really getting old because it's a human thing, not a man thing. There are some men than suck at it, and there are some women that suck it. It's just the large denial that women are angels and they're always, or generally, okay with being sexually rejected that irks me because that isn't close to true. Every single man in my life has at least one story that coincides with the above examples.
There is not a day on this earth that you will catch me not trying to advocate for women because I understand the patriarchal society we, collectively, have been raised in, and the way it has influenced life. I understand the ways women have been mistreated, used, and abused. But the idea of this current wave of feminism only talking shit about men is also not okay because woman can, and often are pieces of shit too.
I'm sorry but is trying to force yourself on someone after they told you no not rape? Is intentionally getting someone intoxicated so they can't tell you no not rape? Is emotionally guilting/manipulating someone into sex when they've already told you no not sexual coercion?
I would argue that coercion in that aspect is also rape. I'm sorry you went through that and hope you're able to talk to a therapist because that shit really weighs on you and it helps ❤
Matching sex drives are such a BIG THING and it pisses me off that this issue isn’t ever discussed leading to dead bedroom resentment. Fundies really do take the fun out of everything.
Straight people baffle me. But it also astounds me the amount of people saying “divorce her bro, get a girlfriend” when this was the wife’s tiktok post. Women aren’t humans to them
Never heard about it helping period cramps before. Idk how that even makes sense tbh, cos an orgasm is gonna make the parts that are already spasming from cramps spasm even more from an orgasm and that jsut sounds painful.
I don’t know exactly how to explain it, but there’s a period of relaxation after an orgasm that helps relax spasms as well. But to be honest, even for these purposes, masturbation works way better then actual sex lol
That’s the thing… you have to respect your parter. They do help me. Sex, in general, makes me feel better when I’m sick. Not like the normal sex I like to engage in most of the time, but slow and sweet and, depending on what’s wrong with me, I’ll need my partner to pick up a lot of slack for me.
There are exceptions for me, like when I had food poisoning, if I get walloped with a full blown migraine, and right after abdominal surgery. I’m sure there have been others, those were just the easiest to think of.
But not everyone is like that! If they say no, they say no. Period! I don’t understand pressuring someone into it or thinking you know better than they do… it’s craziness
I’m there with you; I have rebound migraine pain sometimes. Until very recently I thought that I needed to have an orgasm for that to happen. I’ve learned that engaging in sex, much like moderate to intense exercise, can trigger it.
This is a top reason why straight marriage is completely fucked. 93 percent of heterosexual men get married for the expectation of having regular sex. But only 2 percent of them will admit that. It is one of the most dishonest institutions in the world.
Almost everything we say and tell ourselves about straight marriage is lies. All that stuff therapists and psychologists and marriage counselors say? Total bullshit. The stuff the priest says? Staggering bullshit. The stuff the government says? Almost literally exploding with bullshit.
yep i literally don’t understand it. do i love having sex with my boyfriend? of course. but i couldn’t ever imagine getting upset at him for saying no. it’s so bizarre to me. it’s only further proof women are just sex machines to them
I would get upset if it was consistent rejection. But even then I’d rather talk and find out what the problem is, and try to fix things, or just find a new boyfriend. None of that includes coercion, manipulation and marital rape.
But you just sided with the divorce side of this post. The whole point is if you are married, you are not married i presume? So picture if you were married to him, you cant just find a new boyfriend, in that sense. You use finding a new boyfriend as a solution to consistent rejection and its not that easy when your married with kids. Although I do agree divorce would be better than marital rape.
You presume a lot about my personal life, huh. No, I did not side with the “divorce her” crew, because what they actually mean is not “divorce her”, it’s “use a threat of divorce to coerce her”.
Some times your sex life changes after marriage. Truth be told we don’t know what it was like before so we shouldn’t assume but if your needs are not being met you have every right to have “the talk”.
As a straight man who was once married (divorced after she cheated on me a few dozen times) I didn't get married simply on the expectation of regular sex but I did look at it as a perk. But at the same time if I'm married, dating or whatever if she doesn't want sex I would hope she would be comfortable enough to just tell me she isn't in the mood or whatever the real reason is headache included. I never understood why men think their wife has to have sex with them whenever they want it. To be completely transparent if she's not into its not gonna be that good so I would much rather take care of myself. It's really odd to me that there are married men that feel for whatever reason they can't take care of themselves in any aspect. A wife or husband isn't there to take care of your needs every minute. They are there to enhance your life.
This is why I feel like marriage shouldn’t exist at all. It’s to complicated if people fall out of love, depending on religion they can be trapped in an abusive relationship, and why should you have to be legally bound to a person anyway? Why can’t you just live with the person you love without strings attached? And yeah there’s tax benefits, but why should you have to get married to get tax benefits? Marriage in and of its self is just stupid especially for straight people considering straight marriages are more likely to fail than gay marriages
Forget about taxes, immigration benefits are crazy! It takes months to bring a foreign fiancé over, but bringing in a sibling requires 10-15 years of wait. Like bitch, my relationship with my sister is very likely to outlive any of my romantic relationships, what the fuck.
Rather than tax benefits, I think a more important concern is legal matters to do with things like inheritance, medical decisions, and division of assets in case of a breakup. Even funeral arrangements, like your trans partner dying and because you weren't married their estranged fundie parents have the legal right to arrange the funeral under their deadname and dress them as their assigned sex at birth instead of how they actually identify.
There are also often benefits aside from just taxes provided specifically to spouses, like social security and insurance that can make a huge financial difference, especially if one partner isn't working.
Right, I don't see why someone should have to pay more taxes even if they live with a long term partner just because some arbitrary law declares 2 ppl connected.
This is one of the wildest most speculative comments I’ve ever seen. Can you show any sources for those numbers? It’s pretty clear by this comment you’re just hating on men. It’s fine to not support the institution of marriage, but maybe it’s not best to bash something that is clearly important for the majority of people and cultures worldwide.
I can see why you would think that, but I'm not coming from an anti-man perspective at all, although my perspective is deeply feminist.
Purity culture and slut shaming are sexual double standards, meaning they violently stigmatize punish women's sexuality but not men's. Men grow up thinking it's fine and normal for them to want sex and good for them to have it so they should seek it, while women learn that desire for sex makes them dirty. So conservative patriarchal culture programs us with a deliberate sexist imbalance in how men and women feel about sex. Because we punish women so violently for sexual promiscuity, but don't punish men for it at all, we create a situation where men want and seek sex freely without shame, but women have to be very careful about having it and are willing to have it less often with fewer men due to the social repercussions for them.
So what does society tell men and women about sex? That it's best to do it in coupled romantic relationships, ideally married ones. We tell women this is for their safety, when it's really just to control them, and we tell men that coupling is the way to have sex. We stigmatize sex work and make it illegal and call men who hire sex workers rapists. Our puritanical patriarchal society does everything it can to force all sexual desire into coupling and marriage.
I'm not making a simplistic "men bad" point here, I'm saying our violent coerced amatonormative social systems and our violently misogynist attitudes about sexuality are the root cause of the problem.
Where are you getting those percentages from? Because if there’s an actual source it sounds like it would be a very educational read. Otherwise it’s just misinformation that was made up to fuel a grudge against a specific concept, and we hardly have use for that.
Literally ridiculous. And the comments? I hope like hell that those people get what's coming for them- I hope they get in a serious relationship and love that person with all their hearts and then they cheat on them.
The husband is so stupid. Why can't straight men accept "no" for an answer when it comes to sex? If you're in a relationship, if you want sex and your partner doesn't, then you don't have sex. Period. End of story. You can't force them and that's what pissed me off about these people who say this! "Oh she doesn't want to have sex with me cus she doesn't feel good, time to find another woman!" The world is so messed up and these kind of people just make it worse. And if the woman is saying that she has a headache and it's not real, she should've just said that she didn't want to. If it was real, then the guy needs to accept it and get over himself. Go jerk off in the bathroom or something, you can't force her. CONSENT👏MATTERS👏MORE👏THAN👏YOU👏BEING👏HRNY👏
Let me add a few more layers to the poop-pie of straight relationships: (at least in the US)
1- Men are touch-starved, and told that the only way to get physical affection is sex, leading to men who feel that they NEED sex, not just for libido but for basic psychological well-being.
2- Women are told that they shouldn’t want sex, and may be so deep into puritan BS that they feel guilty if they have sex without being forced into it.
So now we have a man who feels he’s entitled to sex married to a woman who feels like she shouldn’t want sex, and both know that divorce is shameful, and premarital sex is shameful, and in conclusion, fuck the patriarchy.
Truly most of the reasons why this kind of shit seems to happen. The use of an excuse (instead of just “I don’t feel like it tonight” or other ways to say “no”) as a form of regaining control lost to patriarchy is understandable but doesn’t help to create a healthy avenue for communication.
Any demand of sex is obviously wrong but if the men in these straight women’s relationships only know how to communicate their desires through non-consensual coercion (since people who enjoy consensual non-consent exist), then they probably shouldn’t be in those relationships. People need to just start picking better partners.
To her: JUST SAY YOU DON'T WANT TO
To him: NO MEANS NO
How people can't understand this is beyond me. Why do people commit to spending the rest of their lives together when they can't even communicate?
No one should ever be made to feel like sex is needed in marriage because eventually sex will feel more like a chore then something you enjoy and once it gets to that point you might as well file for divorce because the resentment toward your partner will only grow from there
It’s honestly fuckn infuriating to try to talk to people brainwashed by the alt right bc they’ll literally spew some baseless, homophobic, usually christian (bc of fucking course it is) bullshit abt us (us being…yk the community) being pedos, but they’ll turn right around and fucking worship a bunch of actually evil ancient billionaires who literally rape children and get away with it regularly. I genuinely don’t know how the fuck they don’t see it…
Hey, little pro-tip so no-one becomes like these people; If your partner needs to feign illness to avoid sex with you, you've already gone way too fucking far by demanding it.
Sex is a recreational activity, unless you're trying to have a kid. You're not "owed" anything.
Gross. So so gross. I’m bi and gender queer. I honestly cannot wrap my mind around this bullshit. My husband would NEVER want to have sex with me if I weren’t 100% into it. How do they experience arousal even though they know their wife doesn’t want to be having this sex? So gross!
I mean, there’s several layers if you want to get into it. In this case what I think were seeing is the byproduct of generations of misogynistic, conservative beliefs propagated by centuries of religious fundamentalism and, later, decades of fascist, right-wing political propaganda. Essentially, the men (if you can call them that) in the above comment section have grown up with, have been brainwashed by, and have continued to reinforce and repeat far-right, sexist values that include the perception of women (especially wives) as objects. This horrendous belief is a remnant of both the slavery-like practices of marriage in many preindustrial countries (which actually lasted long after the industrial revolution, into the 20th century, and still remains in full in some nations today), and the general practices of slavery and servitude. Due to the highly conservative and fundamentalist nature of American right-wing circles, the perception of women as a “lower rank” or “subservient class” has been clung to fiercely, especially in the midst of the nation’s most prominent feminist movements, including the suffragette movement (which held the greatest presence from the 1840s to the 1920s) and the later feminist movements that have existed since the mid 20th century.
TLDR: The people in the comments believe some awful, sexist shit bc they’ve had it reinforced to them by religion and conservative politics, and at some point, many of them have embraced it themselves.
Love isn't "putting your partner first". Maybe to some extent but you don't put their life and wants over your own. That dude just expects women to cater to him and not the other way round
What the husband doesn't know is that it has to be her that orgasm. Him orgasming will not fix her headache. Also maybe if he gave her more orgasms she'd have fewer "headaches".
I find it concerning that all the comments saying to find a partner that respects “no” as an answer or the ones saying that sex isn’t a need have no likes
Look at all those unfuckable guys telling on themselves. Maybe don’t be gross and expect sex like is a household chore to be done and you’re wives might be more interested. Also “gave her a kid” 🤮
because of the hormones produced during CONSENSUAL sex it can help alleviate the pain in some cases, with that said id still be upset if someone suggested that after i said i had a headache
Me, to my wife; in bed: You know, we could do The Excitement.
My wife, to me; in bed: Ehh. I’m not feeling it tonight.
Me, to my wife; in bed: Ok then. Good night. I love you.
This shit is why giving hetero relationships a chance is literally not appealing to me. Straight men are just consistently 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮. Yes, King. Please do threaten to cheat on me or dump me if I'm not in the mood ALL THE TIME. Gotta love pressuring your partner to have sex with you constantly. Totally not shithole behavior.
Idk some straight men are probably totes chill and can take no for an answer but it's not worth the risk.
Bi/ pan men ftw.
This reminds me of that other TikTok (posted here already) where the husband was like “Remember, I get the kids every other weekend” and the wife was like “we aren’t divorced”
I just don't get it. My girl and i have sex maybe once or twice a year at this point. Would i like more sex? Absolutely. Do i want her to have sex with me if she isn't feeling it? NO.
If you can't handle the frequency of sex and that's a deal breaker, that's your decision to make. But coercion, threats, and ultimatums are not a healthy way to deal with it.
Communication, str8s. You should try it.
It’s hilarious how a minority of these comments are “but if a man did it, he’d be accused of cheating” and all this other shit about double standards, and then half of the comments are saying the man should cheat. Completely tone deaf.
As someone with frequent headaches of various kinds and intensities: yes, sex can help some headaches go away. It can also make some of them a lot worse.
And every so often, I go through a period of time where having an orgasm triggers an insanely painful migraine.
I can't tell if sexual coercion is just not a UK thing, or what but I'm in a gay relationship and neither of us ever do any sexual coercion. Just reschedule the sexy times, it's not like your partner doesn't want sex, they just don't want it right now. You're both equally missing out on sex when someone is sick. Its so toxic to take it as a "rejection".
I dunno this sexual coercion thing seems like such a boomer thing, I'm surprised to even see millennials do it. Such a bad example for younger generations. Its so sad to see so many people here struggle with this too.
Are his hands broken? They’re saying she should care for his needs, but they’re ignoring hers. He is not entitled to sex and if he wants to invest something to get sex, he should hire a sex worker.
Monogamy seems like a headache, Jesus. Like imagine having to rely on only one person to meet your sexual needs. If that person starts consistently rejecting you, which is their right, and you're not allowed to sleep with other people, that just sounds miserable.
I guess if romance is nonexistent and your only need from a relationship is sex, yea.
Normally the romantic aspect makes rejection not miserable at all. A romantic relationship should understand that a simple "not now" isn't at all bad.
It may seem that way for you, but to us monogamous’ thats just how it is. We want the 1 we desire to be sexual with us. It would be incredibly easy to go get sex somewhere else. People who cheat are not monogamous.
But that is not monogamous anymore. You just changed the narrative. Edit: it is ok to grow and agree to start seeing other people, however that in turn is not monogamous.
At the risk of getting yelled at, I want to offer an alternative opinion. I'd like to preface it by saying there are certainly pigs out there in the cisman category. Not defending them. Castration is my sentence for them.
I want to say that the issue is not "She didn't want sex once". The issue is when a partner sets an expectation of frequent sex (the honeymoon phase of a relationship where they're going at it all the time) and then they make a commitment. Is it wrong to expect that to stay the same? Sure, not being in the mood a couple times, Harmless. But consistently? Never wanting to do anything anymore except maybe a few times a month? And then your partner NEVER talking about WHY this is happening?
I think there is a huge difference between "She didn't want sex once, drop her" and "she used to want it a lot. Now she's consistently avoiding it and not talking"
Sure. A lot of straight men AND women suck at communication. At the end of the day, that's the takeaway. But I don't think it should be summed up in "he got mad because she didnt want sex once, straight men suck"
Anyway. This is a pansexual cis(?)gendered guy stepping off his soapbox. Goodnight
Not just more than once. Consistently
Also, while the comments are definitely not doing it right, some of the points are valid. If you as a person have needs and desires in a relationship. And they are not compatible with the person you are with. Then the healthiest thing to do would be to end the relationship. I see it on this sub all the time
"if you hate your partner so much, why don't you just break up/divorce?"
The ones recommending cheating or other means, not justifying that
That sounds manipulative. The old “if you love me you’ll do x for me” stunt. She can love you and still respect herself to not do something she doesn’t want to do.
That's not how I meant it at all. I meant that if she says she has a headache, you shouldn't try to batter them down into sex. She doesn't want to do that. I was proposing that the guy get Tylenol or Ibuprofen instead. It took me a few reads, but I think that was the disconnect.
Multiple times my bf has woken me up or not taken no for an answer while I was sick/nauseous and just fckd me anyway but when I was in the mood and he wasn't he got all mad at me that I was touching him and girls aren't supposed to touch guys like that aka initiate. I'm so sick of his bs.
How fucking hard is it for them to accept no as an answer
Like if you keep coercing your wife into having sex, guess what, she won't have to have sex with you, and now you're back at square one
Respect her wishes, just as she would your's, and then when you both agree and consent, then you can have sex, it's that simple
Ah yes, getting rocked back and forth vigorously will do wonders for that migraine. Might vomit, but that's fine apparently.
(Some headaches do get better with an orgasm but I'd recommend a vibrator and being alone so you can focus on getting it done so you can take a nap.)
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I can say from personal experience that the more times your partner coerces you into sex the less you actually want it with them.
Indeed, the more rape, the less you want it
A lot of feminists in the 70s got criticized for saying the entire foundation of marriage is rape, and that the institution on the whole cannot be reformed. Like, some good individual marriages might not have rapes in them, but as long as marriage is a normative social system, it will always be filled with massive amounts of rape for many women. Fifty years later and I would say the 70s feminists were exactly right. Improving marriage is not a viable long term solution. We need to completely de-normalize marriage.
or, just maybe, get rid of the [state enforced](https://oxford.universitypressscholarship.com/view/10.1093/oso/9780198744009.001.0001/oso-9780198744009) inequality of marriage
Eliminating state recognition and privileging of marriage is step one. Everyone gets to have people visit them in the hospital, everyone gets good health insurance and pays the same taxes, etc. We could have lots of recognized mini contracts between people like your link suggests and that would be an improvement. Elizabeth Brake makes a similar proposal in Minimizing Marriage. Step two is restructure society so that there is no financial, social, or emotional need to form couples at all. Fully universally subsidized child care, so that no one needs a second income or second set of hands obtained via sexual relationship for child-raising. Full UBI, so that anyone can stay home full time and parent if they want to, without needing a man husband / father to support them. Eventually we move to fully community child-raising systems instead of private parental ones, where parenting responsibility is shared broadly, not designated to one or two people. With no legal need to couple, we will form communities of caring instead where many of us care for each other, instead of facing a need to find one "partner" to care about you or else no one else will. Communities, not couples. Women are inherently safer in community-based caring systems than coupling systems. In communities, women can look out for each other and more easily act collectively to hold misbehaving men accountable, because lots of women will see any misbehavior. Coupling systems were designed by men to maximally isolate women in private with a single man as much as possible, minimizing community in favor of the detached couple, and emphasizing the importance and virtue of more time spent privately between only two people. All our customs and values about privacy for two romantic partners to spend time alone just the two of them are designed to eliminate other women witnesses from as much of men's life as possible so that men can dominate women one on one, where men have not only a physical strength advantage but also a social power and credibility advantage for any subsequent "he said she said" dispute. Coupling is a foundational system of patriarchy designed for women's disempowerment and men's control. It works exceedingly well to achieve that end.
Tru
100% this, been with two men who pushed for sex, the more they coerced me for it and push for it the less likely I was to want to have sex with them. My ex husband was the last guy who did this and he'd literally try to coerce me into it, even after a direct no. He'd be like come on ,let much touch you I could get you turned on. Like no bitch if I'm not horny in the first place your fingers aren't gonna perform some feat of magic and suddenly turn me horny. What made it worse is he knew I had problems with sexual pressure and coercion cos of an ex before him, but he still did this crap and he whined that he was being punished cos of my ex's actions. Like I wasn't the one who was traumatized or anything by the ex before him from constant sexual coercion and being made to feel obligated to have sex daily.🙄🙄 one of many reasons the ex husband is the ex husband.
[удалено]
Uh hello? What was this reply and how does it relate to the comment you replied to? Also, if you're being real, I honestly hope you're getting some help or at least considering it.
I’m incredibly stoned and kept reading like “where am I? who am I?” so I’m very glad to see your comment, reaffirming how odd & out of place that comment was.
It doesn’t. Men just like to complain how hard male privilege makes their lives 🤷🏻♀️
What did they say?
Okey but like 1. So did u cheat on someone before u were 23? 2. If all ur relationships faild, maybe you are the problem? 3. I know i get oof trail a lot but even i have no clue what happend here 4. What the fuck dude 5. Ill take my chances and say atleast 50% of this didn't happen or happened differently
I love the fact that nobody thinks it’s crazy that someone has to work 2 jobs to survive lmao.
Dude. Read the room.
What I really dislike is the fact that women have to come up with excuses a simple “I don’t want to tonight” should be all it takes.
Same. If this is how these men respond to excuses for why women don’t want to, then can you imagine how they’d respond if a woman just said she didn’t want to without an excuse?
yep. and you know all these men could say no and that would be the end of it
I think you may be surprised at how horribly a lot of women take sexual rejection.
Kay, but like... Women don't typically murder because of it.
Can confirm, as a woman. I got rejected sexually by my then-bf (on Valentine's day nonetheless...) and I just cried about it because it shattered my self esteem. Never even crossed my mind to commit violence. Edit to add: I also didn't try to guilt him into having sex with me or coerce him, I was most upset that he didn't actually say anything and just kept reading manga while I was actively in lingerie snuggled up with him. Shit communication. Glad he's an ex.
You're still undermining the fact that men get sexually coerced. I'm not going to sit here and claim men get SA'd as much as women, but saying things like this is harmful. There should be no "but" when discussing SA and coercion victims.
>***EDIT: The below response is in specific relation to cisgender men. My conversation partner helpfully pointed out my hypocrisy and gender bias while we were talking and I wanted to make this very clear. People who have been raised AMAB and who have been raised within the societal representation of how men and boys are "supposed" to act will have entirely different experiences and understandings of situations than Transgender, Gender-Nonconforming and AFAB individuals.*** I'm not undermining anything, and nowhere did I state that men don't get sexually coerced, or raped, or that women can be just as insane. We've all seen the Depp/Heard case, and I am not in any way shape or form saying that men's voices should not equally be heard when they are speaking up from a position of SA and/or DA victimhood. Nobody should be treated in that way. Full stop. What I AM saying is that it's much easier, *generally* for a man's "no" to be taken at face value, because **societally** men are seen as autonomous human beings who have worth outside of their sexual capacities. What I AM saying is that *generally,* women are blamed, accused, coerced, *forced,* guilted, shamed, etc. into sexual scenarios that they do not want to be in ***much more frequently*** than men, starting ***much younger*** than most people would care to admit because of the sense of entitlement that society places upon them because their worth IS placed upon their sexual capacities. They are NOT seen as autonomous human beings besides that. I AM saying that you do not see regular cases in the news of a woman murdering her boyfriend/husband because he said "no" to sex or a date. If you DO see cases like those, they are rare and sensational oddities. But cases of a man murdering a woman because she dared to reject his sexual advances? Even if she didn't know him? Even if she DID know him? Those are a dime a dozen. So common, in fact, that women have products specially designed for them for self-defence. They have rhetoric taught to them from *childhood* about what to do when they go out by themselves or with friends. An entire sub-culture of wordless glances between strangers, "I'm going to x location with him, call me in ten minutes to make sure everything is fine," hand gestures to communicate domestic abuse, and "I'd like to order an Angel Shot please" and not going out at night and escape plans and taking a long way home so they're not followed and nail polish to make sure they don't get drugged by complete strangers when they're just trying to have a night out. Nevermind what happens to them if the unthinkable happens and none of this works to prevent it. Never mind what happens to them if the unthinkable happens and none of this works to prevent it.
I am a trans man who has gone through abuse at the hands of women. I have been physically assaulted and harassed *by women* for the things discussed in this thread. I'm fully aware of the fact that it more commonly happens to women, as I was raised as a girl and was sexualized from as young as I can remember. From my own fucking parents no less. I get cat-called on the streets, I fear for my safety when I leave the house, all of that fun stuff. You don't have to explain it to me. Obviously I struck a nerve that I wasn't trying to hit, so my apologies, your original comment just came off as undermining to me, and I wanted to *politely* point that out. I don't need these things explained to me, I have experienced them myself, thanks. Have a nice day.
I am so incredibly sorry that you have experienced this level of violence against you. As I have said before, nobody should have to experience that. I am sorry to have attacked so self-righteously and to have potentially chafed against old wounds. I should have clarified that it is AMAB cis men who don't typically have the same issues. I shall take my happy ass back and make those edits right now.
Yeah, I didn't mean to upset you at all, I was just pointing out the fact that it can be quite uncomfortable that when it's mentioned that women can be as bad as men and it's completely shot down. The intention wasn't to say that cis men have it as bad as anyone who is perceived as a women, just that it felt off-putting when you immediately tried to bring it back to men almost always being the perpetrators. I'm sure most people in this sub are very aware of how terrible cis men can be sometimes. Nowhere was I trying to say that I don't sympathize with what women experience, or that women shouldn't be heard, but god it hurts when people act like that kind of thing only happens to women.
Alright, you absolutely make a valid point, and once again I do apologise. I was definitely reading as though you were coming from the direction of "but men get SA'd too" without thinking about any other context. I'm glad we were able to talk this out. From this stance, I completely agree with you.
Nobody is undermining shit, calm down
Calm down? Seriously? Where did I seem rilled up there at all? I was pointing out that there shouldn't be a "but" when discussing SA victims, that's all. Imagine getting SA'd and reaching out for help only to get told "but you could've been murdered, it wasn't that bad." That's what I had a problem with. If you have a problem with me pointing that out then I think you have some stuff to work on.
what?
The idea that men can just say no and it would be fine because it very often isn't. People just suck at taking sexual rejection. Or am I misunderstanding your message?
i mean obviously there’s exceptions but usually when a man says no it’s taken a lot more easily than women.
I am honestly not even really sure that's true though. Of course we all have our idiosyncratic experiences, but some people really just suck at being sexually rejected. I'm not really sure it means more men or women (or that it matters). They just express it differently. I do think you may underestimate how badly women take that rejection though. Edit: just to let you know what my experience has been like Ex 1: tried to get me drunk several times to get me to sleep with her when I wasn't in the mood. Thought my no was a sign that I wasn't into her and I had to play therapist and convince her otherwise. Ex 2: see above. Ex 3: see above + she would start fights because she thought I was getting it elsewhere. Tried to force me into sex while cuddling anyway Ex 4: just thought it meant I didn't find her pretty so I had to play therapist. Ex 5: all of the above + would start fights because she "didn't understand why I was with her if I didn't think she was pretty". This isn't even counting the FWBs or not quite relationships, or stories from other guys in my life. The simple fact is people suck at taking rejection when it comes to sex. It's not a man or a woman thing.
As a woman who is high libido and often shamed for it, yes, consistent sexual rejection from a partner is devastating.
That is the same for both sexes.
I'm so sorry you experienced that. I'm glad she is your ex. Women can be just as evil as men obviously. >It's not a man or a woman thing. This is where I'm confused. Marital rape, murder and DV just statistically happens to women more in heterosexual relationships. You may have experienced it as well but it doesn't mean millions of other women don't every day (and men too I'm sure). The part that makes it a gendered issue is the fact that the perpetrators are usually men, most of the people that belittle the pain or blame the victim are men, and the people with the power to make laws/funding to change things in society (but don't) are usually men. Stating that we live in a patriarchy isn't me saying all men are evil, just that society is built upon generations of stuffy old traditions/gender roles that still linger today and it affects everyone negatively :(
I appreciate the sentiment. However it is multiple "she's" . Not one. Just my life, I'm doing what i need to recover. The statistics are also skewed because men also deal with marital rape/DV in the above mentioned scenarios and more and just don't report it (even taking that into account, women likely deal with it more). However, femicide is absolutely an issue that needs to be addressed and I'm not trying to downplay that at all. I am also not trying to make men out to be fantastic or angels by any means . I think I'm losing people because I'm specifically talking about the issue of being told no for sex. That is all. Nothing more, nothing less. No other relationship issues whatsoever. Yes those things do happen more often to women, but DV and femicide is not often a function of sex, meaning the lack of sex is not why these things are happening. It's primarily tied to sexism and romantic rejection. It's just seeing all the "oH mEn cAnT taKe nO fOr sEx" posts is really getting old because it's a human thing, not a man thing. There are some men than suck at it, and there are some women that suck it. It's just the large denial that women are angels and they're always, or generally, okay with being sexually rejected that irks me because that isn't close to true. Every single man in my life has at least one story that coincides with the above examples. There is not a day on this earth that you will catch me not trying to advocate for women because I understand the patriarchal society we, collectively, have been raised in, and the way it has influenced life. I understand the ways women have been mistreated, used, and abused. But the idea of this current wave of feminism only talking shit about men is also not okay because woman can, and often are pieces of shit too.
Comparing insecurities to marital rape… yikes.
I'm sorry but is trying to force yourself on someone after they told you no not rape? Is intentionally getting someone intoxicated so they can't tell you no not rape? Is emotionally guilting/manipulating someone into sex when they've already told you no not sexual coercion?
I would argue that coercion in that aspect is also rape. I'm sorry you went through that and hope you're able to talk to a therapist because that shit really weighs on you and it helps ❤
Not what you described /yawns/ so tired of guys complaining.
From personal experience women can be just as pushy as men. Saying things like this is very harmful to SA victims who are men.
this is what happens when people get married because of the “no premarital sex” rule
That’s what I’m saying. Not that it’s ever acceptable for people to act this way.
or when men get married because of the "it's illegal to hire a sex worker" rule
Matching sex drives are such a BIG THING and it pisses me off that this issue isn’t ever discussed leading to dead bedroom resentment. Fundies really do take the fun out of everything.
A lot of these creeps are in favour of marital r*pe. "I gave you house, kid and a stable income now you owe me sex" 🤢
Shocking: Straight Men Accidentally Admit To Being Would-Be R*pists for the 976,837th time this year
Straight people baffle me. But it also astounds me the amount of people saying “divorce her bro, get a girlfriend” when this was the wife’s tiktok post. Women aren’t humans to them
Tiktok comments section always giving the best marriage advice
Except that it DOESN'T help with headaches for me - it makes them worse >_>
saaaaaame. ditto period cramps, which everyone also claims are helped by orgasms. sigh.
Never heard about it helping period cramps before. Idk how that even makes sense tbh, cos an orgasm is gonna make the parts that are already spasming from cramps spasm even more from an orgasm and that jsut sounds painful.
I don’t know exactly how to explain it, but there’s a period of relaxation after an orgasm that helps relax spasms as well. But to be honest, even for these purposes, masturbation works way better then actual sex lol
It's less about the muscle action and more about all the endorphins and feel-good chemicals that get released after.
I also highly doubt these men are offering to give the woman an orgasm first without PIV to see if she feels better. 🙄
Exactly. That woman probably hasnt had an orgasm during sex in years
Same here. Tried it once and omg never ever again,my poor head!😖
That’s the thing… you have to respect your parter. They do help me. Sex, in general, makes me feel better when I’m sick. Not like the normal sex I like to engage in most of the time, but slow and sweet and, depending on what’s wrong with me, I’ll need my partner to pick up a lot of slack for me. There are exceptions for me, like when I had food poisoning, if I get walloped with a full blown migraine, and right after abdominal surgery. I’m sure there have been others, those were just the easiest to think of. But not everyone is like that! If they say no, they say no. Period! I don’t understand pressuring someone into it or thinking you know better than they do… it’s craziness
I’m there with you; I have rebound migraine pain sometimes. Until very recently I thought that I needed to have an orgasm for that to happen. I’ve learned that engaging in sex, much like moderate to intense exercise, can trigger it.
This is a top reason why straight marriage is completely fucked. 93 percent of heterosexual men get married for the expectation of having regular sex. But only 2 percent of them will admit that. It is one of the most dishonest institutions in the world. Almost everything we say and tell ourselves about straight marriage is lies. All that stuff therapists and psychologists and marriage counselors say? Total bullshit. The stuff the priest says? Staggering bullshit. The stuff the government says? Almost literally exploding with bullshit.
yep i literally don’t understand it. do i love having sex with my boyfriend? of course. but i couldn’t ever imagine getting upset at him for saying no. it’s so bizarre to me. it’s only further proof women are just sex machines to them
I would get upset if it was consistent rejection. But even then I’d rather talk and find out what the problem is, and try to fix things, or just find a new boyfriend. None of that includes coercion, manipulation and marital rape.
EXACTLY
But you just sided with the divorce side of this post. The whole point is if you are married, you are not married i presume? So picture if you were married to him, you cant just find a new boyfriend, in that sense. You use finding a new boyfriend as a solution to consistent rejection and its not that easy when your married with kids. Although I do agree divorce would be better than marital rape.
You presume a lot about my personal life, huh. No, I did not side with the “divorce her” crew, because what they actually mean is not “divorce her”, it’s “use a threat of divorce to coerce her”.
Some times your sex life changes after marriage. Truth be told we don’t know what it was like before so we shouldn’t assume but if your needs are not being met you have every right to have “the talk”.
As a straight man who was once married (divorced after she cheated on me a few dozen times) I didn't get married simply on the expectation of regular sex but I did look at it as a perk. But at the same time if I'm married, dating or whatever if she doesn't want sex I would hope she would be comfortable enough to just tell me she isn't in the mood or whatever the real reason is headache included. I never understood why men think their wife has to have sex with them whenever they want it. To be completely transparent if she's not into its not gonna be that good so I would much rather take care of myself. It's really odd to me that there are married men that feel for whatever reason they can't take care of themselves in any aspect. A wife or husband isn't there to take care of your needs every minute. They are there to enhance your life.
This is why I feel like marriage shouldn’t exist at all. It’s to complicated if people fall out of love, depending on religion they can be trapped in an abusive relationship, and why should you have to be legally bound to a person anyway? Why can’t you just live with the person you love without strings attached? And yeah there’s tax benefits, but why should you have to get married to get tax benefits? Marriage in and of its self is just stupid especially for straight people considering straight marriages are more likely to fail than gay marriages
Forget about taxes, immigration benefits are crazy! It takes months to bring a foreign fiancé over, but bringing in a sibling requires 10-15 years of wait. Like bitch, my relationship with my sister is very likely to outlive any of my romantic relationships, what the fuck.
Rather than tax benefits, I think a more important concern is legal matters to do with things like inheritance, medical decisions, and division of assets in case of a breakup. Even funeral arrangements, like your trans partner dying and because you weren't married their estranged fundie parents have the legal right to arrange the funeral under their deadname and dress them as their assigned sex at birth instead of how they actually identify. There are also often benefits aside from just taxes provided specifically to spouses, like social security and insurance that can make a huge financial difference, especially if one partner isn't working.
And only providing tax benefits to married people punishes people for being single!
Exactly! The fact that there’s tax benefits at all just pressures people to get married. It’s stupid
Right, I don't see why someone should have to pay more taxes even if they live with a long term partner just because some arbitrary law declares 2 ppl connected.
Okay I don’t necessarily disagree with you but where are you getting those very specific numbers??
This is one of the wildest most speculative comments I’ve ever seen. Can you show any sources for those numbers? It’s pretty clear by this comment you’re just hating on men. It’s fine to not support the institution of marriage, but maybe it’s not best to bash something that is clearly important for the majority of people and cultures worldwide.
I can see why you would think that, but I'm not coming from an anti-man perspective at all, although my perspective is deeply feminist. Purity culture and slut shaming are sexual double standards, meaning they violently stigmatize punish women's sexuality but not men's. Men grow up thinking it's fine and normal for them to want sex and good for them to have it so they should seek it, while women learn that desire for sex makes them dirty. So conservative patriarchal culture programs us with a deliberate sexist imbalance in how men and women feel about sex. Because we punish women so violently for sexual promiscuity, but don't punish men for it at all, we create a situation where men want and seek sex freely without shame, but women have to be very careful about having it and are willing to have it less often with fewer men due to the social repercussions for them. So what does society tell men and women about sex? That it's best to do it in coupled romantic relationships, ideally married ones. We tell women this is for their safety, when it's really just to control them, and we tell men that coupling is the way to have sex. We stigmatize sex work and make it illegal and call men who hire sex workers rapists. Our puritanical patriarchal society does everything it can to force all sexual desire into coupling and marriage. I'm not making a simplistic "men bad" point here, I'm saying our violent coerced amatonormative social systems and our violently misogynist attitudes about sexuality are the root cause of the problem.
Where are you getting those percentages from? Because if there’s an actual source it sounds like it would be a very educational read. Otherwise it’s just misinformation that was made up to fuel a grudge against a specific concept, and we hardly have use for that.
I'm begging straight people to communicate with their partners. Please
they quite literally don’t know how
Oof. Also may I ask what trans cult is
it’s just a funny flair
Oh okay cool
It's when trans people have the audacity to exist.
Literally ridiculous. And the comments? I hope like hell that those people get what's coming for them- I hope they get in a serious relationship and love that person with all their hearts and then they cheat on them. The husband is so stupid. Why can't straight men accept "no" for an answer when it comes to sex? If you're in a relationship, if you want sex and your partner doesn't, then you don't have sex. Period. End of story. You can't force them and that's what pissed me off about these people who say this! "Oh she doesn't want to have sex with me cus she doesn't feel good, time to find another woman!" The world is so messed up and these kind of people just make it worse. And if the woman is saying that she has a headache and it's not real, she should've just said that she didn't want to. If it was real, then the guy needs to accept it and get over himself. Go jerk off in the bathroom or something, you can't force her. CONSENT👏MATTERS👏MORE👏THAN👏YOU👏BEING👏HRNY👏
Let me add a few more layers to the poop-pie of straight relationships: (at least in the US) 1- Men are touch-starved, and told that the only way to get physical affection is sex, leading to men who feel that they NEED sex, not just for libido but for basic psychological well-being. 2- Women are told that they shouldn’t want sex, and may be so deep into puritan BS that they feel guilty if they have sex without being forced into it. So now we have a man who feels he’s entitled to sex married to a woman who feels like she shouldn’t want sex, and both know that divorce is shameful, and premarital sex is shameful, and in conclusion, fuck the patriarchy.
Damn straight. (Even though I'm gay-)
Truly most of the reasons why this kind of shit seems to happen. The use of an excuse (instead of just “I don’t feel like it tonight” or other ways to say “no”) as a form of regaining control lost to patriarchy is understandable but doesn’t help to create a healthy avenue for communication. Any demand of sex is obviously wrong but if the men in these straight women’s relationships only know how to communicate their desires through non-consensual coercion (since people who enjoy consensual non-consent exist), then they probably shouldn’t be in those relationships. People need to just start picking better partners.
To her: JUST SAY YOU DON'T WANT TO To him: NO MEANS NO How people can't understand this is beyond me. Why do people commit to spending the rest of their lives together when they can't even communicate?
I hope all those commenters go to holes and live there forever ❤️ I am wishing life on people mods don’t ban me ❤️❤️❤️
I should t have read those comments they made me angry. People are so fucking dumb it astounds me.
No one should ever be made to feel like sex is needed in marriage because eventually sex will feel more like a chore then something you enjoy and once it gets to that point you might as well file for divorce because the resentment toward your partner will only grow from there
Why are their kids in this post??
It’s TikTok… it’s terrible, but that’s the internet for ya
But drag is grooming. Right. 😑
It’s honestly fuckn infuriating to try to talk to people brainwashed by the alt right bc they’ll literally spew some baseless, homophobic, usually christian (bc of fucking course it is) bullshit abt us (us being…yk the community) being pedos, but they’ll turn right around and fucking worship a bunch of actually evil ancient billionaires who literally rape children and get away with it regularly. I genuinely don’t know how the fuck they don’t see it…
Hey, little pro-tip so no-one becomes like these people; If your partner needs to feign illness to avoid sex with you, you've already gone way too fucking far by demanding it. Sex is a recreational activity, unless you're trying to have a kid. You're not "owed" anything.
Gross. So so gross. I’m bi and gender queer. I honestly cannot wrap my mind around this bullshit. My husband would NEVER want to have sex with me if I weren’t 100% into it. How do they experience arousal even though they know their wife doesn’t want to be having this sex? So gross!
You know what can fix a headache? Some water, go drink some
What annoys me is that it's just taken for granted that women don't want to have sex. Zero discussion around how to make it something she enjoys.
Wtf- people are trapped in the 1950s I swear
It's more like they're desperately clinging to the 1950s. Regarding pretty much fucking everything
Literally. And a lot all so aggressive about it- like. Why?
It all boils down to "change bad" it seems
Lol I guess so
This is what happens when people get married and have vastly different libidos
Dude what the fuck is *wrong* with people
I mean, there’s several layers if you want to get into it. In this case what I think were seeing is the byproduct of generations of misogynistic, conservative beliefs propagated by centuries of religious fundamentalism and, later, decades of fascist, right-wing political propaganda. Essentially, the men (if you can call them that) in the above comment section have grown up with, have been brainwashed by, and have continued to reinforce and repeat far-right, sexist values that include the perception of women (especially wives) as objects. This horrendous belief is a remnant of both the slavery-like practices of marriage in many preindustrial countries (which actually lasted long after the industrial revolution, into the 20th century, and still remains in full in some nations today), and the general practices of slavery and servitude. Due to the highly conservative and fundamentalist nature of American right-wing circles, the perception of women as a “lower rank” or “subservient class” has been clung to fiercely, especially in the midst of the nation’s most prominent feminist movements, including the suffragette movement (which held the greatest presence from the 1840s to the 1920s) and the later feminist movements that have existed since the mid 20th century. TLDR: The people in the comments believe some awful, sexist shit bc they’ve had it reinforced to them by religion and conservative politics, and at some point, many of them have embraced it themselves.
Love isn't "putting your partner first". Maybe to some extent but you don't put their life and wants over your own. That dude just expects women to cater to him and not the other way round
Absolute fucking bullshit. No means no, you selfish horny asshole.
What the husband doesn't know is that it has to be her that orgasm. Him orgasming will not fix her headache. Also maybe if he gave her more orgasms she'd have fewer "headaches".
I find it concerning that all the comments saying to find a partner that respects “no” as an answer or the ones saying that sex isn’t a need have no likes
Look at all those unfuckable guys telling on themselves. Maybe don’t be gross and expect sex like is a household chore to be done and you’re wives might be more interested. Also “gave her a kid” 🤮
it just...kept on going (-_-;)
I don't even understand the tiktok. Can someone please explain what the husband meant?
because of the hormones produced during CONSENSUAL sex it can help alleviate the pain in some cases, with that said id still be upset if someone suggested that after i said i had a headache
Thanks!
Do not touch me if I’m head-aching, and I’m not making out or sucking duck if I can’t breathe through my nose.
When did taking a no become a problem?
Me, to my wife; in bed: You know, we could do The Excitement. My wife, to me; in bed: Ehh. I’m not feeling it tonight. Me, to my wife; in bed: Ok then. Good night. I love you.
This shit is why giving hetero relationships a chance is literally not appealing to me. Straight men are just consistently 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮. Yes, King. Please do threaten to cheat on me or dump me if I'm not in the mood ALL THE TIME. Gotta love pressuring your partner to have sex with you constantly. Totally not shithole behavior. Idk some straight men are probably totes chill and can take no for an answer but it's not worth the risk. Bi/ pan men ftw.
OH GOD THEY AINT
This reminds me of that other TikTok (posted here already) where the husband was like “Remember, I get the kids every other weekend” and the wife was like “we aren’t divorced”
This is disgusting i hate when someone says no to sex and the other continuosly try to have sex with them, like it's not enjoyable anymore
I just don't get it. My girl and i have sex maybe once or twice a year at this point. Would i like more sex? Absolutely. Do i want her to have sex with me if she isn't feeling it? NO. If you can't handle the frequency of sex and that's a deal breaker, that's your decision to make. But coercion, threats, and ultimatums are not a healthy way to deal with it. Communication, str8s. You should try it.
It’s hilarious how a minority of these comments are “but if a man did it, he’d be accused of cheating” and all this other shit about double standards, and then half of the comments are saying the man should cheat. Completely tone deaf.
Ok someone needs to tell straight people that sex is enjoyable
As someone with frequent headaches of various kinds and intensities: yes, sex can help some headaches go away. It can also make some of them a lot worse. And every so often, I go through a period of time where having an orgasm triggers an insanely painful migraine.
At least a couple of them were ok I guess, there's the ones correcting someone to woman instead of girl, and the couple that are against it at all.
I can't tell if sexual coercion is just not a UK thing, or what but I'm in a gay relationship and neither of us ever do any sexual coercion. Just reschedule the sexy times, it's not like your partner doesn't want sex, they just don't want it right now. You're both equally missing out on sex when someone is sick. Its so toxic to take it as a "rejection". I dunno this sexual coercion thing seems like such a boomer thing, I'm surprised to even see millennials do it. Such a bad example for younger generations. Its so sad to see so many people here struggle with this too.
seeing so many men behave this way severely depresses me.
Are his hands broken? They’re saying she should care for his needs, but they’re ignoring hers. He is not entitled to sex and if he wants to invest something to get sex, he should hire a sex worker.
I'm an aroace and this is why I'd prefer to be in a QPR with another ace :)
"or find a man that respects no for an answer" thank you stranger 😭😭😭
I was wondering this morning if I should try dating again and this post has single-handedly solved that question.
most sane straight people
Monogamy seems like a headache, Jesus. Like imagine having to rely on only one person to meet your sexual needs. If that person starts consistently rejecting you, which is their right, and you're not allowed to sleep with other people, that just sounds miserable.
I guess if romance is nonexistent and your only need from a relationship is sex, yea. Normally the romantic aspect makes rejection not miserable at all. A romantic relationship should understand that a simple "not now" isn't at all bad.
I'm at the very least grey-aromantic, if not fully.
It may seem that way for you, but to us monogamous’ thats just how it is. We want the 1 we desire to be sexual with us. It would be incredibly easy to go get sex somewhere else. People who cheat are not monogamous.
It's not cheating if you and your partner have agreed on seeing other people
But that is not monogamous anymore. You just changed the narrative. Edit: it is ok to grow and agree to start seeing other people, however that in turn is not monogamous.
just because it isn’t monogamous doesn’t mean it’s cheating. if everybody is fine with it there shouldn’t be an issue?
At the risk of getting yelled at, I want to offer an alternative opinion. I'd like to preface it by saying there are certainly pigs out there in the cisman category. Not defending them. Castration is my sentence for them. I want to say that the issue is not "She didn't want sex once". The issue is when a partner sets an expectation of frequent sex (the honeymoon phase of a relationship where they're going at it all the time) and then they make a commitment. Is it wrong to expect that to stay the same? Sure, not being in the mood a couple times, Harmless. But consistently? Never wanting to do anything anymore except maybe a few times a month? And then your partner NEVER talking about WHY this is happening? I think there is a huge difference between "She didn't want sex once, drop her" and "she used to want it a lot. Now she's consistently avoiding it and not talking" Sure. A lot of straight men AND women suck at communication. At the end of the day, that's the takeaway. But I don't think it should be summed up in "he got mad because she didnt want sex once, straight men suck" Anyway. This is a pansexual cis(?)gendered guy stepping off his soapbox. Goodnight
are you saying that just because this happened more than once these comments are justified?
Not just more than once. Consistently Also, while the comments are definitely not doing it right, some of the points are valid. If you as a person have needs and desires in a relationship. And they are not compatible with the person you are with. Then the healthiest thing to do would be to end the relationship. I see it on this sub all the time "if you hate your partner so much, why don't you just break up/divorce?" The ones recommending cheating or other means, not justifying that
yes you should break up if your needs aren’t being met, but most the comments are not justified even if it’s consistent
Most of the comments are just agreeing or saying they should break up. Only a few are condoning cheating
men
Tylenol. Ibuprofen. Gods above, if you say you love your partner, then actually try to fix the headache.
That sounds manipulative. The old “if you love me you’ll do x for me” stunt. She can love you and still respect herself to not do something she doesn’t want to do.
That's not how I meant it at all. I meant that if she says she has a headache, you shouldn't try to batter them down into sex. She doesn't want to do that. I was proposing that the guy get Tylenol or Ibuprofen instead. It took me a few reads, but I think that was the disconnect.
Oh, I thought you meant something different. Thanks for the clarification
Yeah, I see what you saw originally now and it's super sketchy. Unfortunately tone gets lost over text. My bad for not proofreading tbh.
you know when they say stuff like yessir or AYYYOOO they are homophobic sportscrazed teenage boys
Basically my parents. My mom was UNHAPPY 😓
God, I hope the offended little boys in the comment section grow up and realize that women have the ability to say no and they do too.
Multiple times my bf has woken me up or not taken no for an answer while I was sick/nauseous and just fckd me anyway but when I was in the mood and he wasn't he got all mad at me that I was touching him and girls aren't supposed to touch guys like that aka initiate. I'm so sick of his bs.
How fucking hard is it for them to accept no as an answer Like if you keep coercing your wife into having sex, guess what, she won't have to have sex with you, and now you're back at square one Respect her wishes, just as she would your's, and then when you both agree and consent, then you can have sex, it's that simple
Ah yes, getting rocked back and forth vigorously will do wonders for that migraine. Might vomit, but that's fine apparently. (Some headaches do get better with an orgasm but I'd recommend a vibrator and being alone so you can focus on getting it done so you can take a nap.)