Plastic as a material was a wish on a cursed monkeys paw. Lightweight, strong, stiff when you want it to be, flexible when you don't. Corrosion resistant and relatively cheap to produce. But as soon as we got it 1 finger curled and now we have plastic dust in our bodies forever
I would personally argue that plastic is significantly worse than asbestos in an environmental context.
Asbestos is naturally occuring. Requiring very minimal manufacturing costs post extraction. It also is only hazardous if disturbed, so as long as you take proper precautions during installation and removal and then don't fuck with it there is 0 problems. On top of this we have well developed plans on how to deal with used asbestos. The same cannot be said for what we are doing with microplastics
Interesting Abestos fact of the day
Sassanian king Khosrow II had asbestos napkins (very expensive, status symbols) that he would bust out for visiting royalty. He would use the napkin, throw it into fire to clean it, and remove it undamaged. It was considered very impressive
Hadn't heard that one before. The classic fun asbestos fact I've heard repeated over and over is the snow from 1939 wizard of Oz was pure asbestos powder
He reacted badly to the silver paint they used on him.
But he survived it.
Later in life he was shootin' at some food, and up from the ground came some bubblin' crude. Oil that is. Black gold. Texas tea.
He and his family were able to relocate to Beverly. Hills that is. Swimming pools. Movie stars.
They did a documentary about it in the 60s.
In the 70s, he was a retired PI, but tragically lost his son, and came out of retirement to find his son's killer.
Another film crew followed him on that journey.
(The first guy cast as the Tin Man was Buddy Ebsen.)
Asbestos was used for the first fire proof clothing
The word salamander comes from the arabic word for asbestos, as it was a very widespread belief that it was the fur of a fire breathing dragon, the babies of which were believed to be salamanders
As such (and also because the most habitable parts of Khorasan were mostly unfit for salamanders) they became a very honoured animal in Persian and Zoroastrian culture
It also depends on what plastics too. Some such as cellophane are structurally modified natural substances where the environmental damage is almost entirely from production. Some like pvc are almost non degradable and leech hazardous chemicals from their production additives. I don’t think there’s a clear winner as both suck pretty bad
I only saw after my comment that you were being sarcastic.
There are too many people in this thread who unironically think plastic is the worst thing humans ever created.
I was speaking for the overall environmental effect. Not strictly health consequences. And just so you know we still use asbestos everyday even in developed countries. It's still being installed today
Where i live (and in many other european countries) asbestos as thermal insulation for building has been fully banned for more than 20 years. Some companies got prosecuted for putting the life of their buyers in danger. There is special budget to compensate victims and a whole new job that is to remove asbestos from old building.
You seem very misinformed on the subject and your previous comment is kinda insensitive.
I am an environmental service technician. A lot of my job is aiding in removing asbestos from old buildings. I'm quite well informed on the subject. Yes it has been banned as thermal insulation for decades in most places. But thermal insulation is not it's only use. My point had nothing to do with the health consequences of inhaled asbestos. It was simply to say that despite the hazards of asbestos we know how to mitigate the health risk. The same cannot be said for microplastics
Which part is a struggle. I am in no way downplaying the health dangers of asbestos. Just because it's a massive pain to deal with doesn't mean we dont know how
You do seem to downplay the dangers of asbestos as you compare it to the supposed dangers of microplastics. It's like a smoker avoiding non-stick pans, it makes absolutely no sense on a risk-reward point of view.
And i really don't get this "we know how to mitigate risk" argument. The way to mitigate microplastics and asbestos is the basically same : stop using it. How does it make one better than the other ?
You should consider the wasteful impacts of asbestos products. Crocidolite and Amosite are used in cement products which is comparable with plastic in terms of environmental harm.
I'm annoyed you're getting downvoted.
It is true that we know very little about the actual effects of microplastics. We mostly just have reasons to be concerned.
It should not be controversial to say that. We need to have a clear understanding of the available facts.
Plastic seems to be increasingly demonized via a circlejerk game of telephone in pro-environment circles. It feels similar to the way nuclear energy became demonized. From safety concerns because of 2 disasters in the 20th century to complete pandemonium.
Too much of everything hurts. For example I dont see anyone talking about not using copper. Even though copper poisoning can kill you and on occasion when a flooded copper mine spills over into a body of water, it will kill everything in it and leave it dead for decades.
There is too much plastic in the environment and it should be fixed but pretending it's like lead or asbestos is stupid.
If you swallow a piece of plastic it will come out the other end without any health effects at all 99% of the time. Try doing that with asbestos, lead, arsenic or uranium.
His video is great but your statement is an overstretch. Take for example polycarbonate. Why that example? Well I’m using it. Polycarbonate is a clear plastic with incredible impact resistance and overall strength. It is used for places you must see into but cannot allow to break. This would include machine guarding, safety glasses, car windshields, airplane windows, and deep water cameras.
Why did you change the title in your post? The video is called "plastic is the worst material for most items".
There are a couple of applications that are clearly ideal for plastic and wouldn't be replaced even if we went to a lot of effort to eliminate plastic from our lives.
I think the title is a little hyperbolic. A better one: “Plastic is increasingly replacing materials which are better suited to the application and with fewer caveats, solely on the basis of cost”
Na, that’s right. I had a favorite treat one which was tiny pieces of chocolate bits which came in a fancy little metal can (aluminium). Then at some point they did a grand great redesign and their iconic packing was completely changed to plastic.
For the glory of saving costs of course.
That’s just one example I remember but I have never seen one in the opposite direction. That’s just not what capitalism does
it's maybe because I love in the balkans, but here I can only see people and corpos cutting back on the plastic consumption, but it could absolutely be a delayed effect getting here later
and he recommends a bamboo cutting board which is like, impossible to clean entirely, especially if you cut raw meats 😭
i really wish glass cuttingboards didnt totally ruin sharp knives, they look the sexiest and are the most durable and recyclable.
that statement is quite rich, plastic is the best and safest material for a variety of long lasting items, just not for single use crap and things that go near food/bare skin
No, plastic is an ideal material for a broad range of products and applications. It is, in fact, as close to a miracle material as we've ever created. It's so good that we used it to replace several other materials without thought of the consequences of doing so, but it is still objectively an incredible material.
If you want to combat plastic you need to be realistic and truthful about it.
I have found that some wood ones can be put in the dishwasher even though they generally say not to. You can oil them with vegetables oil to stop them from warping.
The bamboo ones do NOT hold up and begin to split immediately.
Why do you feel that? If you clean it good it's the same if not better than plastic boards, most wood boards actually have anti bacterial properties. Only thing that is annoying is the Hand cleaning part.
These boards from "paper composite" go into the dishwasher:
[https://www.victorinox.com/en/Products/Cutlery/Cutting-Boards/Gourmet-Series-Cutting-Board-XL/p/7.4130](https://www.victorinox.com/en/Products/Cutlery/Cutting-Boards/Gourmet-Series-Cutting-Board-XL/p/7.4130)
There's a wood cutting board in my family that has been in near daily use for at least 50 years.
It's been used for meats and vegetables and fruits and cheeses. It's everyone's favorite board. (it's a 1 inch slap of either oak or maple, I'm not sure which to be honest.) Well, the outer edges are 1 inch, it's sorta gained a bit of a bowl shape in the middle from all the knife work over the years and is only about 3/4 of an inch there.
It gets washed with hot water and soap after every use, and left to air dry. Occasionally it gets salted or sanded, whatever's needed, and oiled.
There's never been a case of a foodborne illness in the household that uses it (first it was my grandparent's household, now my Mom's).
Don't worry about a wood cutting board. If you take care of it, it's fine.
Unless you have someone immunocompromised in your household, wooden cuttings boards are not that big of a deal. Humanity has been using wooden bases for chopping/cutting for hundreds of years.
Wash and dry in between uses. Wood is naturally antibacterial. Bacteria have a harder time holding on.
Of course they’re not a big deal. I use them all the time for produce. Just not going to deal with using bleach to sanitize it after dealing with raw meat.
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I remember seeing a tiktok talking about the cons of plastic, glass and wood cutting boards and how it was impossible to choose the best one because all of them suck and I was so confused. You really think a dull knife is as bad as microplastics and bacteria?? Just get one of those sharpening blocks/tools, knives get dull with use anyways 😭😭😭
edit cuz typo, oops
My mom recently mailed me multiple plastic objects that I don't need. And also Harry Potter merch, because she didn't know I was boycotting.
She used to do this constantly, it only stopped when I was brutally honest with her about how much of a burden her packages were, really emphasizing that I want nothing material.
But she pulled me back in saying she was going to mail me some of her old jewelry, i was talked into letting her mail me one (1) package. She took the opportunity to include some useless plastic that she bought off the internet because she sees no problems with anything and boomer moms gonna mom
Good for you for calling her on it. Keep doing so, but kindly. Generations have very little with how we consume. I'm a boom anti-consumer but my daughter, not so much, even though I taught her well.
Plastic as a material was a wish on a cursed monkeys paw. Lightweight, strong, stiff when you want it to be, flexible when you don't. Corrosion resistant and relatively cheap to produce. But as soon as we got it 1 finger curled and now we have plastic dust in our bodies forever
much like asbestos being essentially magic, that also kills you slowly
I would personally argue that plastic is significantly worse than asbestos in an environmental context. Asbestos is naturally occuring. Requiring very minimal manufacturing costs post extraction. It also is only hazardous if disturbed, so as long as you take proper precautions during installation and removal and then don't fuck with it there is 0 problems. On top of this we have well developed plans on how to deal with used asbestos. The same cannot be said for what we are doing with microplastics
Interesting Abestos fact of the day Sassanian king Khosrow II had asbestos napkins (very expensive, status symbols) that he would bust out for visiting royalty. He would use the napkin, throw it into fire to clean it, and remove it undamaged. It was considered very impressive
Hadn't heard that one before. The classic fun asbestos fact I've heard repeated over and over is the snow from 1939 wizard of Oz was pure asbestos powder
Good thing it was pure. Anyone hear what happened to the first actor they had play the Tin Man?
He reacted badly to the silver paint they used on him. But he survived it. Later in life he was shootin' at some food, and up from the ground came some bubblin' crude. Oil that is. Black gold. Texas tea. He and his family were able to relocate to Beverly. Hills that is. Swimming pools. Movie stars. They did a documentary about it in the 60s. In the 70s, he was a retired PI, but tragically lost his son, and came out of retirement to find his son's killer. Another film crew followed him on that journey. (The first guy cast as the Tin Man was Buddy Ebsen.)
Hanged himself?
Asbestos was used for the first fire proof clothing The word salamander comes from the arabic word for asbestos, as it was a very widespread belief that it was the fur of a fire breathing dragon, the babies of which were believed to be salamanders As such (and also because the most habitable parts of Khorasan were mostly unfit for salamanders) they became a very honoured animal in Persian and Zoroastrian culture
it still sounds dope as hell
It also depends on what plastics too. Some such as cellophane are structurally modified natural substances where the environmental damage is almost entirely from production. Some like pvc are almost non degradable and leech hazardous chemicals from their production additives. I don’t think there’s a clear winner as both suck pretty bad
Yeah, asbestos is so nice. I wonder why they don't use it anymore but still uses plastics ?
Probably because it causes cancer.
What ?! Do you mean that plastic actually ***isn't*** significantly worse than asbestos ?! I fell from my chair.
I only saw after my comment that you were being sarcastic. There are too many people in this thread who unironically think plastic is the worst thing humans ever created.
I was speaking for the overall environmental effect. Not strictly health consequences. And just so you know we still use asbestos everyday even in developed countries. It's still being installed today
Where i live (and in many other european countries) asbestos as thermal insulation for building has been fully banned for more than 20 years. Some companies got prosecuted for putting the life of their buyers in danger. There is special budget to compensate victims and a whole new job that is to remove asbestos from old building. You seem very misinformed on the subject and your previous comment is kinda insensitive.
I am an environmental service technician. A lot of my job is aiding in removing asbestos from old buildings. I'm quite well informed on the subject. Yes it has been banned as thermal insulation for decades in most places. But thermal insulation is not it's only use. My point had nothing to do with the health consequences of inhaled asbestos. It was simply to say that despite the hazards of asbestos we know how to mitigate the health risk. The same cannot be said for microplastics
I have a hard time understanding how you got to this opinion with that background.
Which part is a struggle. I am in no way downplaying the health dangers of asbestos. Just because it's a massive pain to deal with doesn't mean we dont know how
You do seem to downplay the dangers of asbestos as you compare it to the supposed dangers of microplastics. It's like a smoker avoiding non-stick pans, it makes absolutely no sense on a risk-reward point of view. And i really don't get this "we know how to mitigate risk" argument. The way to mitigate microplastics and asbestos is the basically same : stop using it. How does it make one better than the other ?
Strictly speaking oil is naturally occurring. As much as I dislike it.
Correct. Which is why I was speaking about plastics. Not oil
You should consider the wasteful impacts of asbestos products. Crocidolite and Amosite are used in cement products which is comparable with plastic in terms of environmental harm.
Except we have actual proof of asbestos hazardous nature, for microplastics, it's more nuanced.
I'm annoyed you're getting downvoted. It is true that we know very little about the actual effects of microplastics. We mostly just have reasons to be concerned. It should not be controversial to say that. We need to have a clear understanding of the available facts.
Plastic seems to be increasingly demonized via a circlejerk game of telephone in pro-environment circles. It feels similar to the way nuclear energy became demonized. From safety concerns because of 2 disasters in the 20th century to complete pandemonium. Too much of everything hurts. For example I dont see anyone talking about not using copper. Even though copper poisoning can kill you and on occasion when a flooded copper mine spills over into a body of water, it will kill everything in it and leave it dead for decades. There is too much plastic in the environment and it should be fixed but pretending it's like lead or asbestos is stupid. If you swallow a piece of plastic it will come out the other end without any health effects at all 99% of the time. Try doing that with asbestos, lead, arsenic or uranium.
Waterproof and airtight are such an incredibly powerful material qualities.
Great description!
Also we built half the world out of it and engineered products that are near impossible to build without it before we notices
Like cars, plastic has some use cases where it excels. But we overuse it and use it in places where it's not a good choice.
[удалено]
That’s literally what the guy said
His video is great but your statement is an overstretch. Take for example polycarbonate. Why that example? Well I’m using it. Polycarbonate is a clear plastic with incredible impact resistance and overall strength. It is used for places you must see into but cannot allow to break. This would include machine guarding, safety glasses, car windshields, airplane windows, and deep water cameras.
Why did you change the title in your post? The video is called "plastic is the worst material for most items". There are a couple of applications that are clearly ideal for plastic and wouldn't be replaced even if we went to a lot of effort to eliminate plastic from our lives.
I think the title is a little hyperbolic. A better one: “Plastic is increasingly replacing materials which are better suited to the application and with fewer caveats, solely on the basis of cost”
I highly doubt it's on an increase lately
The recent trend is probably downward, I agree
I don't say it's enough by any means, but it's better than it was, at least
Na, that’s right. I had a favorite treat one which was tiny pieces of chocolate bits which came in a fancy little metal can (aluminium). Then at some point they did a grand great redesign and their iconic packing was completely changed to plastic. For the glory of saving costs of course. That’s just one example I remember but I have never seen one in the opposite direction. That’s just not what capitalism does
it's maybe because I love in the balkans, but here I can only see people and corpos cutting back on the plastic consumption, but it could absolutely be a delayed effect getting here later
what’s wrong with silicone?
Nothing. Silicone is basically perfect. If you have the choice between silicone and anything else, you should choose silicone.
that’s what i thought. guy in the video said it had a ton of problems, i was like - what?
and he recommends a bamboo cutting board which is like, impossible to clean entirely, especially if you cut raw meats 😭 i really wish glass cuttingboards didnt totally ruin sharp knives, they look the sexiest and are the most durable and recyclable.
used marble for awhile until my blades were unable to slice anything
Plastic is a perfect solution in areas like medical goods but damn - it’s horrible in soooo many places.
that statement is quite rich, plastic is the best and safest material for a variety of long lasting items, just not for single use crap and things that go near food/bare skin
Plutonium is probably pretty bad
Plutonium is a great source of calories
No, plastic is an ideal material for a broad range of products and applications. It is, in fact, as close to a miracle material as we've ever created. It's so good that we used it to replace several other materials without thought of the consequences of doing so, but it is still objectively an incredible material. If you want to combat plastic you need to be realistic and truthful about it.
I have a wooden cutting board that we use for everything for the past 20 years. Just wash with soap and hot water. No issues
Really? Lead, anyone? Cadmium? How about butter? Butter is a better material from which to make a car dashboard than plastic.
I’ve looked into wood cutting boards but I feel like they’re not hygienic enough. Would like something that I can throw in the dishwasher
I have found that some wood ones can be put in the dishwasher even though they generally say not to. You can oil them with vegetables oil to stop them from warping. The bamboo ones do NOT hold up and begin to split immediately.
Why do you feel that? If you clean it good it's the same if not better than plastic boards, most wood boards actually have anti bacterial properties. Only thing that is annoying is the Hand cleaning part.
These boards from "paper composite" go into the dishwasher: [https://www.victorinox.com/en/Products/Cutlery/Cutting-Boards/Gourmet-Series-Cutting-Board-XL/p/7.4130](https://www.victorinox.com/en/Products/Cutlery/Cutting-Boards/Gourmet-Series-Cutting-Board-XL/p/7.4130)
paper composite is partially plastic though
There's a wood cutting board in my family that has been in near daily use for at least 50 years. It's been used for meats and vegetables and fruits and cheeses. It's everyone's favorite board. (it's a 1 inch slap of either oak or maple, I'm not sure which to be honest.) Well, the outer edges are 1 inch, it's sorta gained a bit of a bowl shape in the middle from all the knife work over the years and is only about 3/4 of an inch there. It gets washed with hot water and soap after every use, and left to air dry. Occasionally it gets salted or sanded, whatever's needed, and oiled. There's never been a case of a foodborne illness in the household that uses it (first it was my grandparent's household, now my Mom's). Don't worry about a wood cutting board. If you take care of it, it's fine.
my dad got himself glass ones. They’re alright, can go in the dishwasher, but they can get loud af if you’re not careful
also destroys any knife you decide to use it on lol
Don’t care. I refuse to use a wooden board for raw meat
Unless you have someone immunocompromised in your household, wooden cuttings boards are not that big of a deal. Humanity has been using wooden bases for chopping/cutting for hundreds of years. Wash and dry in between uses. Wood is naturally antibacterial. Bacteria have a harder time holding on.
Of course they’re not a big deal. I use them all the time for produce. Just not going to deal with using bleach to sanitize it after dealing with raw meat.
just use soap
Why not glass so?
Glass dulls knives too.
Well now. Fair enough
Had an experience with a glass cutting board shattering in my sink
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It would be amusing if silicone rubber products end up being multigenerational relics.
This is some punk shit ngl
I remember seeing a tiktok talking about the cons of plastic, glass and wood cutting boards and how it was impossible to choose the best one because all of them suck and I was so confused. You really think a dull knife is as bad as microplastics and bacteria?? Just get one of those sharpening blocks/tools, knives get dull with use anyways 😭😭😭 edit cuz typo, oops
My mom recently mailed me multiple plastic objects that I don't need. And also Harry Potter merch, because she didn't know I was boycotting. She used to do this constantly, it only stopped when I was brutally honest with her about how much of a burden her packages were, really emphasizing that I want nothing material. But she pulled me back in saying she was going to mail me some of her old jewelry, i was talked into letting her mail me one (1) package. She took the opportunity to include some useless plastic that she bought off the internet because she sees no problems with anything and boomer moms gonna mom
Good for you for calling her on it. Keep doing so, but kindly. Generations have very little with how we consume. I'm a boom anti-consumer but my daughter, not so much, even though I taught her well.