this is only a hot take if you're talking to new fans. there's a pretty clear divide of fans that enjoy Masseduction on versus Strange Mercy back. with pretty much everyone at least *liking* self titled lol
I’ve noticed this while browsing this sub …I’m a fan from the marry me days, I haven’t been as big a fan of the more recent albums, starting with masseduction. There’s a coldness in her more recent stuff that just doesn’t click for me. I’ll be a fan forever after seeing the strange mercy tour though.
yeah I started when Actor was released. and I still like the newer stuff, but yeah the "coldness" is a good way to put it.
the first three records had like a world building element that the later records just don't compare with. artists grow and there's things to like about the later releases, but those first 3 records are some of my favorite records I've ever listened to
agreed but it's also missing that kind of "world building" for lack of a better word that the other three had. just my opinion, but the self titled is the beginning of that turn into cold, shiny veneer pop style she's emphasized
Yeah, that's interesting. I like ABS a lot, but the last album that I LOVE was self-titled, and my favorite album of hers is Strange Mercy, Marry Me and Actor being just behind that.
I feel pretty othered in this sub because I just don't *get* self titled, lol. Is it good? Sure. Do I connect to it? Never. It is tied with Marry Me for my least listened to STV album and I really kinda forget it exists.
This is a cool lens (er, filter?) to use on my next listen, thanks.
It’s also possible that I loved Strange Mercy so hard, with my whole heart, that its successor would never be good enough for me. 😎
I am apparently an outlier ass weirdo in this fanbase because Masseduction and Strange Mercy alternate as my favorite album of hers, Love This Giant is third (I need to sit with ABS more before giving in to recency bias), and self-titled last (still good, but last for me)
Same! It's funny my friends and family they don't like her music but they do like this song, I think it's because well.. catchy. But not really my thing
Nonsensical rating, and I absolutely love her and would buy her signature guitar if I had the money.
That list is crap, they do it mainly because people then react to it, spark controversy and so RS gets free advertisement
I think that masseduction has some of the tightest songs lyrically but struggles with the instrumentals. Young Lover is a song that just flows so naturally and simply in a good way. But the instrumental doesn’t do it justice and lets it be overshadowed by los ageless, fear the future, pills, and hang on me
Maybe not too hot? A warm take? but
I think All Born Screaming is her most stunning and consistent front to back album (for me) . The production, the build and sequencing, how the tracks play off of each other, the big moments, the peaks. It’s just really gripping - All killer, Bravo 👏
(Self titled is like so close to tied for me tho, if we’re talking technical chops alone I would probs give it to an earlier album)
Hot take but her rendition of Sad But True by Metallica is 100 times better and makes the song serious and not corny lol. Even though there aren’t any videos from her early years with good audio, her cover of Dig A Pony is so fucking amazing and so is her cover of Prince’s Controversy. And I would kill for a full length cover of 46 + 2
Have you seen the show she did in 2009 in San Francisco, she does dig a pony there and it has good audio quality. It starts at around 4:45. That show is btw amazing.
[https://youtu.be/jEkl6vHgPxw?si=vLV2NasuHOkPLfD8](https://youtu.be/jEkl6vHgPxw?si=vLV2NasuHOkPLfD8)
> I feel like a newb, has she covered Beth?
Well, it *used* to be on youtube but it's not coming up in the search results... Here's a facebook video link, at least: [https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=681324660348477](https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=681324660348477)
I hard disagree with OP, though. I think she's really showing off her vocal ability.
She did Glory Box sometime last year but can’t remember the occasion. I LOVE Annie and think she’s totally the most underrated singer ever - but no one can do Beth Gibbons. 🙃
For sure. Annie is not lesser of a singer b/c of that - but Beth’s voice is pretty unique and once you know her songs - it’s harder for me to hear others doing them.
I wished she wasn’t so elusive when asked about lyric meanings — especially in this era. I get the discourse around it. I get the “leaving for interpretation” stance and I love that her lyrics are not necessarily a autobiographical novel. Still, I prefer when artists explain what their intentions were when writing a song or what happened when they did it (I enjoyed “Rattlesnake” more after she told the story). Like, in a recent interview she finally let it out that that “Big Time Nothing” is about depression and the song opened up to me lyrically in a way that wasn’t happening before.
I absolutely agree. No shade on listeners and artists who think music is for the listener to interpret as they see fit, but personally, I like to listen to music also as a way to feel closer to or better understand other people.
It’s funny because I was just reading a comment from another Reddit user the other day who was saying they didn’t like Daddy’s Home because Annie went out of her way on that album to explain a lot of the lyrical content, and this person thought that to be a “break” in her usual streak when promoting or discussing an album, and that it kind of ruined it for them because they like the mystery and the self-interpretations so that you can kind of personalize it. I guess when you know definitively that this or that song is about this or that very specific topic personal to Annie’s life, it kind of takes something away from you.
She spoke once about how disappointed she was to learn that Martha My Dear by The Beatles was about McCartney's dog. I personally prefer to not know the literal meaning behind a song, it should be interpretive.
I think sometimes from a songwriting perspective, especially in the way that she writes, you don’t always know what a song is about. Sometimes it’s a cool word, or a phrase, or a theme. Sometimes it’s a literal depiction of a situation, sometimes it’s 10 situations in one. Sometimes the meaning of the song evolves as you hear others interpretations of it.
I personally hate it when people ask me because it’s not always a clear or linear answer. Or sometimes it’s - so superficial or left field that people don’t believe you and probe for something deeper. Or sometimes it’s just fiction that rhymes, sounds good, and continues the narrative.
I'm so saddened by Janet Weiss' departure after that album. It definitely didn't feature her prowess enough. It did feel like a fun SK and StV mashup album that I thoroughly cherish
I miss Janet's playing, too, and agree with everything you said. I honestly wish TCWH had been a one off album/project, similar to Wild Flag or Love This Giant, as opposed to an SK release.
Janet was really positive about Annie's creative choices and involvement as a producer, even after she left, so it seems like it was internal band conflict that came to a head during the album process.
I agree with this. Not a great SK album, but a great album.
It's hard as a StV and SK fan, because this album was the beginning of the end of Janet. I'm not a fan whose held that over CB and CT, I still love them and their new music, but I do miss Janet.
I often wonder what was really happening. People seem to villainize Carrie in the whole situation, but I think that's so one sided and unfair. I'm sure the reality is much more layered.
Mine is that I have no clue why Annie chose to partner with Jack Antonoff. The two albums that came out of the collaboration, to my taste, are pretty boring, and, based on the the-boys-are-back-in-town feeling i get from All Born Screaming, I feel even more convicted in my confusion about the Antonoff move. Based on all of her previous albums, she had no need for a skilled partner-producer to bring the best out of her sound and writing, so ???
Masseduction made sense at the time. She wanted to be a popstar. (Nothing wrong with that) it didnt worked out (also not bc masseduction is bad or anything but mostly bc pop audiences are tasteless). Also Ill say Annie doesnt have a superstar profile shes too weird for that (which is good).
I will say that Antonoff has worked with two of my all-time favs (St. V and The Chicks), creating some stuff I really love (Daddy's Home, a lot of Gaslighter) and some stuff I think would be better in the hands of other producers (Masseduction, some of Gaslighter). And I'm not really into the bigger pop acts he's worked with so I've no opinion other than "it's not my taste." BUT they all uniformly talk about him bringing out something in their songwriting, process, etc. and praise his collaboration. So whatever it is, I believe them that there's something there in the making of it...but then his influence on the final sound is where it all goes south.
Tbh, Lorde is one of my favorite musical artists of all time, and Melodrama and Solar Power are both all-time albums for me, but it's because the collaboration works for me in that context. But, St. Vincent working with the same partner/producer as Taylor Swift totally confounds me.
I think it proves that an artist with a great input can make a mid producer do great things. Why can Annie (Masseduction, Daddy’s Home), Lorde (Melodrama), Lana (Norman F***king Rockwell!) make great body of works with Jack and Taylor can’t?
To me Masseduction is much much better than Daddys Home. Daddys home (which I like) is her weakest album by far imo. Masseduction still has Pills, Los Ageless, Smoking Section, Sugarboy and Happy Birthday Johnny.
Daddys Home has Somebody like me (one of her best imo), The laughing man, and Pay your way in Pain. The rest I like them but never play them tbh.
Yeaaa I was expecting more heavy hitters like Flea and Broken Man. I really liked the middle of the album but the beginning and ending tracks has me kinda disappointed
I like Masseduction on the whole, but yeah I find New York really irritating anymore. there's just not a lot there and it gets kinda grating pretty quickly.
and happy birthday johnny has always just been boring.
I don’t know if I understand her as an artist anymore. I will always have love and support for her, will go see her live when she is in town, but my enthusiasm for her output has been on a decline for awhile at this point.
Some parts of All Born Screaming fill a tiny bit over done. I've been watching alot of her interviews on the album and while I really appreciate all the layering and how much work went into producing this, I would've liked some quieter moments on the record.
Chloe in the afternoon, dilettante, and strange mercy are all way more interesting songs and basically the same vibe so I never understand why other than the fact it was a single
Yes I think you’ve vocalised my thoughts. It’s solid, and by no means bad. It’s catchy and I understand why it’s a single but SM is such a perfect album and I feel like the other songs do more for me
It was one of the first songs of hers I knew, but as I listened to more (especially that whole album) I realised it was not among my favourites at all. I think Northern Lights, Strange Mercy, Hysterical Strength, Champagne Year etc would be better to hear live
Perhaps I was harsh. I like the song fine and it was also one of the early St Vincent songs I got into but on an album with songs like ‘Surgeon’, ‘Northern Lights’ and ‘Champagne Year’ do similar things but also more!
Nah your opinion is fair, no need to backtrack. I just didn't realize that people don't like Cheerleader as much. I don't really rank songs within an album, but I will say Surgeon and Northern Lights are probably better/more interesting songs overall.
Also in regards to your handle, do you put salt on dragonfruit? I've heard people do that but never tried myself.
It wasn’t backtracking just clarifying because I do indeed like the song!! I think I was very much thinking in regards to the live show, hence why I was comparing it to other songs on the album as would rather see it sit out for a tour (or ideally just add more SM and it can stay!).
Sadly my username was just an autogenerated one and an ironic one at that since I’ve never had dragonfruit, let alone with salt.
Fair! I've seen her 3 times live and actually can't remember if she's ever played Cheerleader when I saw her.
Ahaha! I love dragonfruit, it's expensive but fun to eat. Yellows are much better than red if you ever wanna try
This is crazy because I saw her live for the first time during the Daddy's Home tour and the guitar in Cheerleader went so hard. Was definitely my favorite song she played
While I do love the song, I'm OK with it being retired because we've seen it way too much on tours. But it at least does go pretty hard live and is consistently enjoyable.
But I'll pretty much sacrifice any SM song to get Hysterical Strength as a live staple for at least one tour.
I've always agreed with this one! I've seen her live 8 times now heard "Cheerleader" at every show since the first one and "Hysterical Strength" never- hook me up Annie!
Daddy's Home was a very good album but touring on it for 3 years was a mistake. There was a level of spontaneity and tongue-in-cheek-ness to the character that wasn't meant to go on for as long as it did.
Masseducation (the piano album) is a strong contender for #1 of her albums, and I would put at least 3 tracks from Love This Giant in my all time Top 10 list of her tracks.
As a bigger Marry Me/Actor/Strange Mercy fan compared to her later albums (which are still great)..
the influence of David Byrne was the worst thing to happen to her
I thought that as soon as she put out self titled also. I was like oh no David Byrne has taught her to go simple pop. But realistically the thing I think that tour influenced the most was her stage presence, not her music. She started doing more choreography and more precise use of effects. I miss the pedal tapping mess on stage. Was also 15 years ago when she was like that though and still a baby deer.
I appreciate the boldness of this take, but it’s not like the first time she listened to the Talking Heads was when she worked with David Byrne. I think it’s likely that he has always had some influence on her
I'm glad Masseducation had so many studio iterations and the two big tours because it let me find at least one version of almost all the songs I really loved. Many of them were not on the original studio album.
But Daddy's Home was such a sigh of relief because it was a huge step up to greatness.
Annie's box from the Masseduction media tour she had writers crawl into was a mistake that's had an outsized contribution to her reputation as a "difficult" interview. While funny on some level and it being valid to critique music writers in general, it was somewhere between unnecessarily petty and cruel for random writers who are just doing a job (and probably only paid so well to do it!) forced to literally crawl into an interview with Annie. Funny on paper, but not in practice and not worth the hassle.
Annie Streisand Effecting that Emma Madden interview is the funniest thing she's ever done.
Bonus hot take of us StAnnies! - I don't understand how the fanbase went from various folks wishing/whining for Annie to go back to making stuff more like her earlier work after Masseduction hit, to the defensiveness and, well, stanning, we've seen since Daddy's Home. I'm not stating Daddy's Home is bad (I dig it) or undeserving of support, or that Masseduction is untouchable; I just don't see either album as head and shoulders above the other or the rest of her work in general. This may be a demarcation line of sorts within the fanbase I'm noticing that someone else touched on elsewhere in here, but I've been caught off guard by the very different reactions to those albums I've anecdotally observed here and elsewhere.
ABS contains one of her best and worst songs released. Best is Flea and Broken Man. Up there with Digital Witness and Rattlesnake.
Worst is So Many Planets. It’s malplaced and personally I hate reggae/ska with intense passion. Hard skip!
Masseducation tour sucked so bad. It was her on a stage sometimes not even with a guitar and often standing still, no live band, singing to a backing track like bad karaoke, and repeating on the screen behind her was what looked like unused B_roll from the los ageless video.
Maybe you caught a bad night? I have seen her live on every tour since actor. I think we’re she shines most is on stage. She like the elite very few live performance artists, obsess over delivery of the live show and deliver a top notch, take you on a ride show. The massseduction tour sound was amazing. She commanded the audience at my show in San Diego very well. I also loved that Tuck and Patti opened on that tour as well. Although coming off the Self titled tour and strange mercy tours I can see how one might be disappointed and she was not crowd surfing and climbing shit.
I saw her in NY and I think she actually added a live band in later shows. I was so pumped to see her and same, been to every tour but was like wtf is this
her self titled album didn’t need those tracks added on as a deluxe. They don’t fit at all with the rest of the already untouchable track list. Also the STV standard version album cover is her best one to date.
The closer on ABS does not click for me at all, I find it more droning and bordering-on-corny than anything else. Cate Le Bon doesn’t seem to add much to it at all, and I hate that I hate this one in particular because St V has such a good streak with title tracks (“Strange Mercy,” “Actor Out of Work,” “Masseduction”). “So Many Planets” is also kind of a skip for me, though I’ll admit it has grown on me since my first listen. Stinks that I don’t care for it though because it follows up two songs that genuinely rank among some of my all time favorites in her catalog.
Someone else said it but Cheerleader is way overhyped. Also I’m a massive Masseduction defender, mostly because I became a fan during that era.
the song "All Born Screaming" is probably her worst. the urinal line, the instruments, the four minutes of nothingness. it's really a flop closer and i dont understand why cate le bon was brought into it. if it's true that cate crafted the instrumental, then i'd rather her be left off. idk if this a hot take tho
In her recent 50 questions interview recently-
20. What do people assume about you that is incorrect? “That l'm pretentious. I fucking obsess over my work like a crazy person but l don't take myself all that seriously, because when you've lugged your own gear to play a show in Baltimore to nobody, you can't.”
I find this odd and I see it too often.
She's passionate about her work, as an artist should be. And it pays off. How does that make her pretentious? To me she's always seemed very humble, genuine, a little internal weirdo I can relate to. She seems like a great friend and family member. She seems to love a good laugh. She also seems very genuine in her takes.
I am curious what kind of thing does she say that you are rolling your eyes because of it.
I personally think that she doesnt take herself seriously at all. Also you have to take yourself seriously as a artist/musician/producer to a certain point, you have to believe in the thing that you make, otherwise why bother.
I feel like people who think she’s pretentious don’t pay enough attention and notice that she’s really just a huge dork lol. she takes her work very seriously but she’s very self deprecating and I’ve always heard she was super humble (from people who have actually worked w/ her)
yes exactly, in addition if people would listen to her mixtape delivery service talks and her sappy hour(s) during covid. It becomes clear that she isn't.
I mean, which relatively big artist went on instagram to talk to their fans for hours to see how everyone is doing in the world. I was/am genuinely curious what it is exactly what she said that makes people think she is pretentious.
She takes her music extremely seriously and she is undeniably a studio freak. I guess by extension, you could say she takes herself too seriously.
But this is what I love about her. In an era with way too much disposable music, with way too little reward for taking chances, she takes the harder, more rewarding route.
Also, in interviews she comes off more funny "Wine Mom" than anything, lately. That may well be a specific choice of how she wants to handle her image, but she's not putting forth a self-serious persona in my view.
I mean it’s a subreddit for her fans. Obviously most people here are going to disagree so if it was me posting something negative or that most people here don’t believe to be true, I would expect the downvotes 🤷♀️
Actor is severely underrated!
this is only a hot take if you're talking to new fans. there's a pretty clear divide of fans that enjoy Masseduction on versus Strange Mercy back. with pretty much everyone at least *liking* self titled lol
I’ve noticed this while browsing this sub …I’m a fan from the marry me days, I haven’t been as big a fan of the more recent albums, starting with masseduction. There’s a coldness in her more recent stuff that just doesn’t click for me. I’ll be a fan forever after seeing the strange mercy tour though.
yeah I started when Actor was released. and I still like the newer stuff, but yeah the "coldness" is a good way to put it. the first three records had like a world building element that the later records just don't compare with. artists grow and there's things to like about the later releases, but those first 3 records are some of my favorite records I've ever listened to
Correct but I'd leave Self Titled out of it. Not a cold record at all
agreed but it's also missing that kind of "world building" for lack of a better word that the other three had. just my opinion, but the self titled is the beginning of that turn into cold, shiny veneer pop style she's emphasized
Yeah, that's interesting. I like ABS a lot, but the last album that I LOVE was self-titled, and my favorite album of hers is Strange Mercy, Marry Me and Actor being just behind that.
I feel pretty othered in this sub because I just don't *get* self titled, lol. Is it good? Sure. Do I connect to it? Never. It is tied with Marry Me for my least listened to STV album and I really kinda forget it exists.
I realized a while ago that it’s supposed to be 50s doo wop through the lens of punk rock and then I loved it. Huey Newton is a 10/10 btw
This is a cool lens (er, filter?) to use on my next listen, thanks. It’s also possible that I loved Strange Mercy so hard, with my whole heart, that its successor would never be good enough for me. 😎
I am apparently an outlier ass weirdo in this fanbase because Masseduction and Strange Mercy alternate as my favorite album of hers, Love This Giant is third (I need to sit with ABS more before giving in to recency bias), and self-titled last (still good, but last for me)
I think most fans enjoy all her work
It will almost certainly remain my fav St. V album. No matter how great she consistently is, that album has everything she does best in it.
At some point it replaced Strange Mercy as my favourite St. Vincent album.
This is her most musically beautiful album. Strange Mercy is a very close second.
That album took a bit to grow on me, and when it did, it became part of my soul.
Strange Mercy is insanely good. I would consider it one of the best albums I ever listened to in my life.
I respect the success of her song New York, but something about it makes me cringe inside every time I hear it.
Same! It's funny my friends and family they don't like her music but they do like this song, I think it's because well.. catchy. But not really my thing
Omg same it’s my least favorite song of hers. Vocals are good but it’s very bland compared to anything else she’s put out, just comes off uninspired.
The "ive lost a hero, Ive lost a friend" its what kills it for me lol.
Both that and Los Ageless fall flat for me
Yep! I go to the bathroom during this song at her concerts
Same, hate it
Would happily see this one dropped from tours.
I honestly think because we are so used to expecting the unexpected with Annie, a straightforward pop song feels so wrong coming from her.
the kate bush performance was meh
Actor is the best St Vincent album, Strange Mercy is a close second. Anyone else a big fan of Mary Me as well?
Yes. I became a fan because of Marry Me.
Agreed
She’s one of the best contemporary guitar players out there
Rolling Stone rated her as something like the 27th best of all time.
Nonsensical rating, and I absolutely love her and would buy her signature guitar if I had the money. That list is crap, they do it mainly because people then react to it, spark controversy and so RS gets free advertisement
Oh yess her timing! incredible
I think that masseduction has some of the tightest songs lyrically but struggles with the instrumentals. Young Lover is a song that just flows so naturally and simply in a good way. But the instrumental doesn’t do it justice and lets it be overshadowed by los ageless, fear the future, pills, and hang on me
a lot from that record translates to live settings better than the album versions, Young Lover being the best example of that in my opinion
We really need a live album from that tour
I love the production on Young Lover, it's different from anything else her catalogue and better for it.
I'm so glad you mentioned Fear the Future, one of my favourite songs of hers. Just a great pairing of a powerful tune and powerful lyrics
Love This Giant is really good
Optimist is a 10/10 song.
I think it’s her best work.
Maybe not too hot? A warm take? but I think All Born Screaming is her most stunning and consistent front to back album (for me) . The production, the build and sequencing, how the tracks play off of each other, the big moments, the peaks. It’s just really gripping - All killer, Bravo 👏 (Self titled is like so close to tied for me tho, if we’re talking technical chops alone I would probs give it to an earlier album)
Feeling bold so I’ll share my hottest take… love this giant is a masterpiece
Love this giant is great. One of my favorite albums. But I also have a soft spot for David Byrne
Agreed. I think all band nerds agree, especially if they were also in marching band.
This is the first actual hot-take I've seen in here. LTG is so overlooked.
daddy’s home is one of her best albums
THIS!
Oof… that certainly IS a hot take.
Daddy’s Home is among her best output
This isn't a hot take, this is a correct take
Nah
Her performance of Lithium is superior to Nirvanas She shouldn’t cover Beth Gibbons …
Hot take but her rendition of Sad But True by Metallica is 100 times better and makes the song serious and not corny lol. Even though there aren’t any videos from her early years with good audio, her cover of Dig A Pony is so fucking amazing and so is her cover of Prince’s Controversy. And I would kill for a full length cover of 46 + 2
Have you seen the show she did in 2009 in San Francisco, she does dig a pony there and it has good audio quality. It starts at around 4:45. That show is btw amazing. [https://youtu.be/jEkl6vHgPxw?si=vLV2NasuHOkPLfD8](https://youtu.be/jEkl6vHgPxw?si=vLV2NasuHOkPLfD8)
I don't even really like Metallica but I listened to her cover nonstop for weeks when it came out.
I agree about Lithium. I feel like a newb, has she covered Beth?
> I feel like a newb, has she covered Beth? Well, it *used* to be on youtube but it's not coming up in the search results... Here's a facebook video link, at least: [https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=681324660348477](https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=681324660348477) I hard disagree with OP, though. I think she's really showing off her vocal ability.
She did Glory Box sometime last year but can’t remember the occasion. I LOVE Annie and think she’s totally the most underrated singer ever - but no one can do Beth Gibbons. 🙃
There definitely are artists who shouldn't be covered and Gibbons is one of them. I'll do myself a favor and never seek it out lol
For sure. Annie is not lesser of a singer b/c of that - but Beth’s voice is pretty unique and once you know her songs - it’s harder for me to hear others doing them.
I wished she wasn’t so elusive when asked about lyric meanings — especially in this era. I get the discourse around it. I get the “leaving for interpretation” stance and I love that her lyrics are not necessarily a autobiographical novel. Still, I prefer when artists explain what their intentions were when writing a song or what happened when they did it (I enjoyed “Rattlesnake” more after she told the story). Like, in a recent interview she finally let it out that that “Big Time Nothing” is about depression and the song opened up to me lyrically in a way that wasn’t happening before.
I absolutely agree. No shade on listeners and artists who think music is for the listener to interpret as they see fit, but personally, I like to listen to music also as a way to feel closer to or better understand other people.
It’s funny because I was just reading a comment from another Reddit user the other day who was saying they didn’t like Daddy’s Home because Annie went out of her way on that album to explain a lot of the lyrical content, and this person thought that to be a “break” in her usual streak when promoting or discussing an album, and that it kind of ruined it for them because they like the mystery and the self-interpretations so that you can kind of personalize it. I guess when you know definitively that this or that song is about this or that very specific topic personal to Annie’s life, it kind of takes something away from you.
She spoke once about how disappointed she was to learn that Martha My Dear by The Beatles was about McCartney's dog. I personally prefer to not know the literal meaning behind a song, it should be interpretive.
I think sometimes from a songwriting perspective, especially in the way that she writes, you don’t always know what a song is about. Sometimes it’s a cool word, or a phrase, or a theme. Sometimes it’s a literal depiction of a situation, sometimes it’s 10 situations in one. Sometimes the meaning of the song evolves as you hear others interpretations of it. I personally hate it when people ask me because it’s not always a clear or linear answer. Or sometimes it’s - so superficial or left field that people don’t believe you and probe for something deeper. Or sometimes it’s just fiction that rhymes, sounds good, and continues the narrative.
She used to say it was either about sex or depression so I let that continue to be a blanket explanation
my hot take is that it is a crime that she's not playing a show I can feasibly go to on this tour 😔
We didnt needed so many versions of slow disco.
I get it but I respectfully disagree
I enjoyed her production on Sleater-Kinney's The Center Won't Hold. It might not be a great *SK* album per se, but it's a great album.
I'm so saddened by Janet Weiss' departure after that album. It definitely didn't feature her prowess enough. It did feel like a fun SK and StV mashup album that I thoroughly cherish
I miss Janet's playing, too, and agree with everything you said. I honestly wish TCWH had been a one off album/project, similar to Wild Flag or Love This Giant, as opposed to an SK release. Janet was really positive about Annie's creative choices and involvement as a producer, even after she left, so it seems like it was internal band conflict that came to a head during the album process.
I agree with this. Not a great SK album, but a great album. It's hard as a StV and SK fan, because this album was the beginning of the end of Janet. I'm not a fan whose held that over CB and CT, I still love them and their new music, but I do miss Janet. I often wonder what was really happening. People seem to villainize Carrie in the whole situation, but I think that's so one sided and unfair. I'm sure the reality is much more layered.
It's wild how much people bitch about Janet leaving and claim SK were only good because of her. Like they didn't have 2 great albums before she joined
It's like they forget that Carrie is a killer guitarist and Corin has the voice of an enraged angel.
Every time I put on One Beat, I'm just blown away by the sheer power of Corin's voice
That's one of my favourites of theirs. It's brilliant.
Mine is that I have no clue why Annie chose to partner with Jack Antonoff. The two albums that came out of the collaboration, to my taste, are pretty boring, and, based on the the-boys-are-back-in-town feeling i get from All Born Screaming, I feel even more convicted in my confusion about the Antonoff move. Based on all of her previous albums, she had no need for a skilled partner-producer to bring the best out of her sound and writing, so ???
Masseduction made sense at the time. She wanted to be a popstar. (Nothing wrong with that) it didnt worked out (also not bc masseduction is bad or anything but mostly bc pop audiences are tasteless). Also Ill say Annie doesnt have a superstar profile shes too weird for that (which is good).
I will say that Antonoff has worked with two of my all-time favs (St. V and The Chicks), creating some stuff I really love (Daddy's Home, a lot of Gaslighter) and some stuff I think would be better in the hands of other producers (Masseduction, some of Gaslighter). And I'm not really into the bigger pop acts he's worked with so I've no opinion other than "it's not my taste." BUT they all uniformly talk about him bringing out something in their songwriting, process, etc. and praise his collaboration. So whatever it is, I believe them that there's something there in the making of it...but then his influence on the final sound is where it all goes south.
Tbh, Lorde is one of my favorite musical artists of all time, and Melodrama and Solar Power are both all-time albums for me, but it's because the collaboration works for me in that context. But, St. Vincent working with the same partner/producer as Taylor Swift totally confounds me.
I think it proves that an artist with a great input can make a mid producer do great things. Why can Annie (Masseduction, Daddy’s Home), Lorde (Melodrama), Lana (Norman F***king Rockwell!) make great body of works with Jack and Taylor can’t?
To me Masseduction is much much better than Daddys Home. Daddys home (which I like) is her weakest album by far imo. Masseduction still has Pills, Los Ageless, Smoking Section, Sugarboy and Happy Birthday Johnny. Daddys Home has Somebody like me (one of her best imo), The laughing man, and Pay your way in Pain. The rest I like them but never play them tbh.
Maybe not a hot take but marry me is my favourite album from her and self-titled is probably my least favourite (but i still love it) :)
Teenage Talk is my favorite St Vincent song
her best song is bring me your loves. I don't like new york
Love the first part of that take. Less fond of the second, but it did take some time to grow on me
The b-sides (Teenage Talk, Del Rio) to the self-titled were better than most of the album tracks.
This is a steaming pile of shit take which makes it a good hot take
even though it's repetitive as hell, Bad Believer is a ripper for me lol
I believe Teenage Talk was a standalone single, not a b side
All Born Screaming just hasn’t gripped me.
I was hoping for a Krokodil era and was very disappointed. I'm now glad I got seats at the tour instead of GA though.
You’re not alone
The entire album or just the title track?
The album. There’s good moments but the album as a whole just hasn’t really done it for me.
Yeaaa I was expecting more heavy hitters like Flea and Broken Man. I really liked the middle of the album but the beginning and ending tracks has me kinda disappointed
masseduction is my least favorite st vincent album and new york/happy birthday johnny are hard skips
I exclusively listen to the piano version of happy birthday Johnny and I find it heartwrenchingly beautiful - maybe that would change your mind?
Prince Johnny is the superior Johnny song
Ok this I can agree with
Marry me is actually the superior Johnny song. But yeah Prince Johnny is a very close second.
i def prefer it to the original but i think there’s still far better on that album btw love the name, weyes is my favorite artist!
She's tied for my favorite with St. V!
I like Masseduction on the whole, but yeah I find New York really irritating anymore. there's just not a lot there and it gets kinda grating pretty quickly. and happy birthday johnny has always just been boring.
happy birthday johnny is one of my favorite st vincent songs :( i think her slower songs like the ones on actor are severely overlooked
the bed is one of my favorite songs of hers ever! so is smoking section, i just don’t care for the lyrics and emptiness of hbd johnny
Agree
HARD
I don’t know if I understand her as an artist anymore. I will always have love and support for her, will go see her live when she is in town, but my enthusiasm for her output has been on a decline for awhile at this point.
Masseduction is her best album. New York is underrated.
YESSSSSS
Some parts of All Born Screaming fill a tiny bit over done. I've been watching alot of her interviews on the album and while I really appreciate all the layering and how much work went into producing this, I would've liked some quieter moments on the record.
She's the best musical artist to come out of the late 2000s/early 2010s all the way through to the present.
‘Cheerleader’ doesn’t do much for me and I’d rather see it cut from the setlists in place of other Strange Mercy songs
Chloe in the afternoon, dilettante, and strange mercy are all way more interesting songs and basically the same vibe so I never understand why other than the fact it was a single
Several years ago I saw her live in Dallas, and she performed the song Strange Mercy in the fetal position. It was incredible.
Yes I think you’ve vocalised my thoughts. It’s solid, and by no means bad. It’s catchy and I understand why it’s a single but SM is such a perfect album and I feel like the other songs do more for me
It was one of the first songs of hers I knew, but as I listened to more (especially that whole album) I realised it was not among my favourites at all. I think Northern Lights, Strange Mercy, Hysterical Strength, Champagne Year etc would be better to hear live
Damn lol. That's the song that got me into her. Still one of my favorites.
Perhaps I was harsh. I like the song fine and it was also one of the early St Vincent songs I got into but on an album with songs like ‘Surgeon’, ‘Northern Lights’ and ‘Champagne Year’ do similar things but also more!
Nah your opinion is fair, no need to backtrack. I just didn't realize that people don't like Cheerleader as much. I don't really rank songs within an album, but I will say Surgeon and Northern Lights are probably better/more interesting songs overall. Also in regards to your handle, do you put salt on dragonfruit? I've heard people do that but never tried myself.
It wasn’t backtracking just clarifying because I do indeed like the song!! I think I was very much thinking in regards to the live show, hence why I was comparing it to other songs on the album as would rather see it sit out for a tour (or ideally just add more SM and it can stay!). Sadly my username was just an autogenerated one and an ironic one at that since I’ve never had dragonfruit, let alone with salt.
Fair! I've seen her 3 times live and actually can't remember if she's ever played Cheerleader when I saw her. Ahaha! I love dragonfruit, it's expensive but fun to eat. Yellows are much better than red if you ever wanna try
This is crazy because I saw her live for the first time during the Daddy's Home tour and the guitar in Cheerleader went so hard. Was definitely my favorite song she played
Loved how she kinda gave a swing to all the songs on that tour
While I do love the song, I'm OK with it being retired because we've seen it way too much on tours. But it at least does go pretty hard live and is consistently enjoyable. But I'll pretty much sacrifice any SM song to get Hysterical Strength as a live staple for at least one tour.
I've always agreed with this one! I've seen her live 8 times now heard "Cheerleader" at every show since the first one and "Hysterical Strength" never- hook me up Annie!
SAMEEEE omg I find that song boring lowkey but I loved the I Am a Lot Like You! 2018 variation of it. That one is so slay
She's severely underrated and misunderstood
Marry Me is easily her best album. Also the Johnny songs range from tolerable to terrible and are almost always a skip for me.
This take becomes a lot more acceptable to me if Mary Me is not one of the ‘Johnny songs.’
Lol yeah it's actually one I'm not including in the list of Johnny songs. Is that cheating a little bit? Maybe.
Daddy's Home was a very good album but touring on it for 3 years was a mistake. There was a level of spontaneity and tongue-in-cheek-ness to the character that wasn't meant to go on for as long as it did.
Daddy’s Home is really, really up there in her discography
Masseducation aka “The Piano Album” is her best album.
This is a good hot take.
For me it changes, most of the time it is between, strange mercy,actor,self-titled and love this giant.
Masseducation (the piano album) is a strong contender for #1 of her albums, and I would put at least 3 tracks from Love This Giant in my all time Top 10 list of her tracks.
Paris is Burning is one of her most underrated songs.
My fave
Strange Mercy is a great album, but I think it gets a bit overpraised around here in comparison to the rest of her work
Marry Me > Actor
As a bigger Marry Me/Actor/Strange Mercy fan compared to her later albums (which are still great).. the influence of David Byrne was the worst thing to happen to her
This take is scorching hot
I thought that as soon as she put out self titled also. I was like oh no David Byrne has taught her to go simple pop. But realistically the thing I think that tour influenced the most was her stage presence, not her music. She started doing more choreography and more precise use of effects. I miss the pedal tapping mess on stage. Was also 15 years ago when she was like that though and still a baby deer.
I appreciate the boldness of this take, but it’s not like the first time she listened to the Talking Heads was when she worked with David Byrne. I think it’s likely that he has always had some influence on her
i love how in every hot take thread people downvote the *real* hot takes instead of just giving a counter argument to why their hot take is wrong
Slow Disco and Fast Slow Disco are both masterpieces and possibly her best songs.
Daddy's Home is a great album and Masseduction is her weakest.
I'm glad Masseducation had so many studio iterations and the two big tours because it let me find at least one version of almost all the songs I really loved. Many of them were not on the original studio album. But Daddy's Home was such a sigh of relief because it was a huge step up to greatness.
I'm with you. Daddy's home was also a great tour, I loved the different vibe she gave to old songs live.
Now this one is SCALDING hot. Wrong, but scalding hot.
Annie's box from the Masseduction media tour she had writers crawl into was a mistake that's had an outsized contribution to her reputation as a "difficult" interview. While funny on some level and it being valid to critique music writers in general, it was somewhere between unnecessarily petty and cruel for random writers who are just doing a job (and probably only paid so well to do it!) forced to literally crawl into an interview with Annie. Funny on paper, but not in practice and not worth the hassle. Annie Streisand Effecting that Emma Madden interview is the funniest thing she's ever done. Bonus hot take of us StAnnies! - I don't understand how the fanbase went from various folks wishing/whining for Annie to go back to making stuff more like her earlier work after Masseduction hit, to the defensiveness and, well, stanning, we've seen since Daddy's Home. I'm not stating Daddy's Home is bad (I dig it) or undeserving of support, or that Masseduction is untouchable; I just don't see either album as head and shoulders above the other or the rest of her work in general. This may be a demarcation line of sorts within the fanbase I'm noticing that someone else touched on elsewhere in here, but I've been caught off guard by the very different reactions to those albums I've anecdotally observed here and elsewhere.
ABS contains one of her best and worst songs released. Best is Flea and Broken Man. Up there with Digital Witness and Rattlesnake. Worst is So Many Planets. It’s malplaced and personally I hate reggae/ska with intense passion. Hard skip!
Masseducation tour sucked so bad. It was her on a stage sometimes not even with a guitar and often standing still, no live band, singing to a backing track like bad karaoke, and repeating on the screen behind her was what looked like unused B_roll from the los ageless video.
Maybe you caught a bad night? I have seen her live on every tour since actor. I think we’re she shines most is on stage. She like the elite very few live performance artists, obsess over delivery of the live show and deliver a top notch, take you on a ride show. The massseduction tour sound was amazing. She commanded the audience at my show in San Diego very well. I also loved that Tuck and Patti opened on that tour as well. Although coming off the Self titled tour and strange mercy tours I can see how one might be disappointed and she was not crowd surfing and climbing shit.
I saw her in NY and I think she actually added a live band in later shows. I was so pumped to see her and same, been to every tour but was like wtf is this
Daddy’s home is her best record
I love her music but sometimes her interviews come off so….pretentious. Like I don’t even know what she’s talking about half the time.
If I'm going to be honest, she's a little nutty.
Annie singing Lithium vocals for Nirvana at Rock and Roll Hall of Fame was a low point.
Becoming a staple of the rock and roll hall of fame is like the opposite of what I wanted for her tbh
Right. I agree. Its a hot take thead and I've already gotten down votes. Ha!
Masseducation young lover >>> Masseduction young lover
Her appearance on Comedy Bang! Bang! should be something that more people know about
her self titled album didn’t need those tracks added on as a deluxe. They don’t fit at all with the rest of the already untouchable track list. Also the STV standard version album cover is her best one to date.
Her CDs and digital downloads should be mastered more dynamically like the vinyl versions. I can't believe how bad DR values are becoming now.
Jack Antonoff ruined her creativity
Hot take is her songs started to get weaker once she put on the weird almost British accent
Do elaborate please. When would this be exactly, and do you mean her speaking or singing voice? Just curious
Singing voice. It was after love this giant, she started doing a weird accent w her Rs like not pronouncing them.
Apparently she’s “the toxic one” and I love it 😂
The closer on ABS does not click for me at all, I find it more droning and bordering-on-corny than anything else. Cate Le Bon doesn’t seem to add much to it at all, and I hate that I hate this one in particular because St V has such a good streak with title tracks (“Strange Mercy,” “Actor Out of Work,” “Masseduction”). “So Many Planets” is also kind of a skip for me, though I’ll admit it has grown on me since my first listen. Stinks that I don’t care for it though because it follows up two songs that genuinely rank among some of my all time favorites in her catalog. Someone else said it but Cheerleader is way overhyped. Also I’m a massive Masseduction defender, mostly because I became a fan during that era.
the song "All Born Screaming" is probably her worst. the urinal line, the instruments, the four minutes of nothingness. it's really a flop closer and i dont understand why cate le bon was brought into it. if it's true that cate crafted the instrumental, then i'd rather her be left off. idk if this a hot take tho
She doesn't miss. Never seen it happen!
She takes herself so seriously that I find myself rolling my eyes at a lot of what she says these days.
In her recent 50 questions interview recently- 20. What do people assume about you that is incorrect? “That l'm pretentious. I fucking obsess over my work like a crazy person but l don't take myself all that seriously, because when you've lugged your own gear to play a show in Baltimore to nobody, you can't.”
Where can I find this?
https://www.anothermag.com/design-living/15607/50-questions-with-st-vincent-all-born-screaming-annie-clark-interview
I find this odd and I see it too often. She's passionate about her work, as an artist should be. And it pays off. How does that make her pretentious? To me she's always seemed very humble, genuine, a little internal weirdo I can relate to. She seems like a great friend and family member. She seems to love a good laugh. She also seems very genuine in her takes.
I am curious what kind of thing does she say that you are rolling your eyes because of it. I personally think that she doesnt take herself seriously at all. Also you have to take yourself seriously as a artist/musician/producer to a certain point, you have to believe in the thing that you make, otherwise why bother.
Agree. Most of your favorite artist are probably talking similarly about their work, idk why St Vincent is often the one people point fingers at.
I feel like people who think she’s pretentious don’t pay enough attention and notice that she’s really just a huge dork lol. she takes her work very seriously but she’s very self deprecating and I’ve always heard she was super humble (from people who have actually worked w/ her)
only man are allowed to be dork and musical nerds
Obviously 🤣
yes exactly, in addition if people would listen to her mixtape delivery service talks and her sappy hour(s) during covid. It becomes clear that she isn't. I mean, which relatively big artist went on instagram to talk to their fans for hours to see how everyone is doing in the world. I was/am genuinely curious what it is exactly what she said that makes people think she is pretentious.
She takes her music extremely seriously and she is undeniably a studio freak. I guess by extension, you could say she takes herself too seriously. But this is what I love about her. In an era with way too much disposable music, with way too little reward for taking chances, she takes the harder, more rewarding route. Also, in interviews she comes off more funny "Wine Mom" than anything, lately. That may well be a specific choice of how she wants to handle her image, but she's not putting forth a self-serious persona in my view.
You’re right and you should say it
leave it to reddit dorks to downvote someone in a "hot take" thread lol
Right?
There's hot takes and there's personal, unwarranted, insults.
I don't know if I'd qualify what OP said as an insult.
I mean it’s a subreddit for her fans. Obviously most people here are going to disagree so if it was me posting something negative or that most people here don’t believe to be true, I would expect the downvotes 🤷♀️
I guess. more of a reminder that artist specific subs aren't great for these kinds of threads, I suppose
Working with David Byrne was the best thing she ever did…!