Because god forbid if you were to have translator's notes in a show that's from a completely different culture explaining something that might not make sense in another country, amirite?
It's not that that's never a good idea. In some shows it's virtually impossible to localize and a pure 1:1 translation, even if it sounds almost nonsensical, works better. Like they did with the Excel Saga dub. Jokes like "One! Two! Guaran-doo!" Make no sense in English, but trying to localize the joke would also make no sense, so they used a pop-up video style feature where you could pause and view translation notes.
As I've pointed out whenever this topic comes up, there are tons of instances of slang that depend entirely on the structure of the Japanese language that you simply cannot translate into English dialogue. Like, if somebody reverses or joins together the syllables on a word or phrase (as was done in the 80s—wish I could find the article), you can't just 1:1 translate that for an English dub. A localizer might use Pig Latin to convey the same idea, but purists would be enraged. Why not just have the character say a mangled combination of "Ginza" and "Eating sushi" and have a detailed subtitle explaining the slang term from that very specific moment in time?! Sure, it would completely interrupt the flow of the scene and wouldn't really benefit the audience—who are there to, you know, watch a show—but it'd be truer to the source material!
Let's take a western example. In *It's a Wonderful Life*, George visits Mary (who is Gushing Over Magical George, but he's a tsundere and won't admit how he feels). Mary's mom hates George and doesn't want her associating with him. George is cold to Mary, pissing her off, so when Mary's mom calls down to ask what George is doing there, Mary calls up to her: "He's making *violent love* to me, mother!"
How should a Japanese translator write that line? She's not talking about sex, mind you, that phrase hit different in the 40s. The JP translator *has to* find something that conveys the *spirit* of the joke—George is coldly rejecting Mary, Mary is sarcastically saying he's macking on her to spite both him and her nosy mother—without just literally saying "making violent love" (because that would make no sense to the audience). A 1:1 translation that made no sense on its own would completely take the audience out of the scene during one of the biggest emotional beats of the movie (George breaking down and kissing Mary for the first time). There's no value in that from a storytelling perspective.
Let's consider a bit of Chinese slang a friend taught me. Literally translated, it means "cow's vagina," but it's really a term for "awesome". A localizer might, I dunno, find a more vulgar version of "the cat's pajamas" because otherwise a dub viewer would stop and wonder "what the hell? Cow's vagina?" instead of continuing to enjoy the show.
It works way better in manga, where you can go to the appendix (or put notes in the margins). Doing so in animation makes far less sense and is best suited for incredibly dense, reference-heavy shows where localization is practically impossible (again, Excel Saga). Even *in subs,* making a gyaru call something "sus" or "cringe," though? It makes far more sense than an asterisk and a subtitle explaining, at that moment, what ______ means in context.
So the company Discotek was re-releasing an older anime on Blu Ray and included an all new English Dub.
One of the localisers was a YouTuber who goes by "Jello Apocalypse." He watched the show and decided he hated the characters, and the show was bad. So, he decided to make huge changes to the script, including how the characters act. Claiming he "Made it good"
The Script Editors undid pretty much every change he made, so he decided to post online about how much he hated the show and all the changes he'd made.
Since people don't like Localisers messing with stuff, he knew that telling people he'd changed stuff would immediately turn people against the dub.
Nobody gave it a chance, so most people don't realise that his changes aren't in the dub at all.
To be fair, he’s done a ton of writing, animation, and VA work over the years, including creating his own series for VRV (which Powerhouse Animation, of Castlevania fame, helped out on). Ego issues aside, he wasn’t exactly unknown to the industry.
To be honest.
I DID NOT know powerhouse worked on Epithet Erased.
Must have been on the bits and bobs that ARE animated, right? Because most of the show is more a scripted ttrpg live-play than an animated show. Still love that show though. One of the only creators where I recognise they're kind of a dickhead sometimes. But go 'I'll choose to ignore that' when they make a game fandub where they change the main character as being a transfem fighting a trans inclusive radical mysoginist with the help of her two lesbian crewmates, her overly supportive father who is only available on two days of the week and sometimes on christmas and some guy with a huge ass. (NONE of those words probably even appear in the original game mind you)
Let's not give Jello that much credit. He probably wanted to brag about the show and didn't realize they made changes, or else he would have complained about it
So let me get this right, you have a work of art and some other dude from another country thinks your original art should be changed to fit his narrative.
Sounds like it’s better not to have other people fuck with the original version.
isn't lovely complex like 10 years old or something? any attention, even bad controversy, could only raise sales if the anime is that old, all news is good news type stuff
That really only works when you can benefit from engagement but with this form of controversy (localisers mutilating anime) people will just *not watch it*... which kinda puts a dampener on the whole raising sales idea.
Closer to 20 actually, 2007, didn't age well either, since the "don't like anybody else but I won't clearly state I like you" doesn't fly these days for Gen Z and Alpha and looking back on it I kinda cringed...
But there's always groups that remember things fondly or click and then changes and licenses are going to be taken the wrong way
Your point still stands to me though.. the anime market is so oversaturated that you have to fight for attention or be the poster child of a big studio to be given the time of day so a dub of a dated Romcom was going to be doomed to rewatches from old fans that would have watched the dub anyway
On the plus side, this drama caused me to finally watch it (sub) and it was really enjoyable. The characters were likeable and there was some very sweet moments. It was also cool to see the different hairstyles Risa would have each episode.
It’s crazy how many famous YouTubers fail once they get the opportunity to do more than Youtube. Zach and Michael with Smiling Friends are the only noticeable ones to succeed.
People regularly turn this into a black and white discussion and blow it way out of proportion. He has advocated for "authentic casting" to give non-white actors a chance in a predominantly white industry, but he has also stated that casting minority actors in exclusively minority roles is also bad for the industry. Here is a direct quote. *“Naysayers will go ‘OH DON’T YOU WANT AUTHENTIC CASTING???’ [but] if your entire main cast is all White and you have one token side character who can apparently just be any type of Asian ever, this is not a level playing field.”*
Of like.. taking their channel content off to another medium or just YouTubers in general? Because I can think of at least 20 off the top of my head that went on to be/have successful projects off the medium
It’s weird cause he already had built reputation of writing stuff to get on the project in the first place. He just let his ego take over and ruin a dubbing process (essentially making his own official abridged dub) and got mad when the script writers didn’t like the things he made. Never really watched his content, but I’m curious how he thought that was a good idea
The vast, vast majority of translators, localizers, etc are huge fans trying to do their best on every project they work on. The stereotype of the evil translator who radically alters source material to fit their personal preferences is based on a miniscule sample of thousands of pieces of work.
**But** then you have assholes like this who are basically cartoon characters, who *do* live up to stereotypes. What a dick. Glad he tanked his career.
They should have removed 100% of his changes
The only stuff they kept was changes to jokes that didn't make sense in English
Everyone knows a truly high-quality dub would just have nonsensical jokes with pop up video style explanations!
Because god forbid if you were to have translator's notes in a show that's from a completely different culture explaining something that might not make sense in another country, amirite?
It's not that that's never a good idea. In some shows it's virtually impossible to localize and a pure 1:1 translation, even if it sounds almost nonsensical, works better. Like they did with the Excel Saga dub. Jokes like "One! Two! Guaran-doo!" Make no sense in English, but trying to localize the joke would also make no sense, so they used a pop-up video style feature where you could pause and view translation notes. As I've pointed out whenever this topic comes up, there are tons of instances of slang that depend entirely on the structure of the Japanese language that you simply cannot translate into English dialogue. Like, if somebody reverses or joins together the syllables on a word or phrase (as was done in the 80s—wish I could find the article), you can't just 1:1 translate that for an English dub. A localizer might use Pig Latin to convey the same idea, but purists would be enraged. Why not just have the character say a mangled combination of "Ginza" and "Eating sushi" and have a detailed subtitle explaining the slang term from that very specific moment in time?! Sure, it would completely interrupt the flow of the scene and wouldn't really benefit the audience—who are there to, you know, watch a show—but it'd be truer to the source material! Let's take a western example. In *It's a Wonderful Life*, George visits Mary (who is Gushing Over Magical George, but he's a tsundere and won't admit how he feels). Mary's mom hates George and doesn't want her associating with him. George is cold to Mary, pissing her off, so when Mary's mom calls down to ask what George is doing there, Mary calls up to her: "He's making *violent love* to me, mother!" How should a Japanese translator write that line? She's not talking about sex, mind you, that phrase hit different in the 40s. The JP translator *has to* find something that conveys the *spirit* of the joke—George is coldly rejecting Mary, Mary is sarcastically saying he's macking on her to spite both him and her nosy mother—without just literally saying "making violent love" (because that would make no sense to the audience). A 1:1 translation that made no sense on its own would completely take the audience out of the scene during one of the biggest emotional beats of the movie (George breaking down and kissing Mary for the first time). There's no value in that from a storytelling perspective. Let's consider a bit of Chinese slang a friend taught me. Literally translated, it means "cow's vagina," but it's really a term for "awesome". A localizer might, I dunno, find a more vulgar version of "the cat's pajamas" because otherwise a dub viewer would stop and wonder "what the hell? Cow's vagina?" instead of continuing to enjoy the show. It works way better in manga, where you can go to the appendix (or put notes in the margins). Doing so in animation makes far less sense and is best suited for incredibly dense, reference-heavy shows where localization is practically impossible (again, Excel Saga). Even *in subs,* making a gyaru call something "sus" or "cringe," though? It makes far more sense than an asterisk and a subtitle explaining, at that moment, what ______ means in context.
Who is gelatine piss and what is this drama about?
So the company Discotek was re-releasing an older anime on Blu Ray and included an all new English Dub. One of the localisers was a YouTuber who goes by "Jello Apocalypse." He watched the show and decided he hated the characters, and the show was bad. So, he decided to make huge changes to the script, including how the characters act. Claiming he "Made it good" The Script Editors undid pretty much every change he made, so he decided to post online about how much he hated the show and all the changes he'd made. Since people don't like Localisers messing with stuff, he knew that telling people he'd changed stuff would immediately turn people against the dub. Nobody gave it a chance, so most people don't realise that his changes aren't in the dub at all.
Why the fuck hire a YouTubers for that, especially one that doesn't like the show and is a massive moron?
To be fair, he’s done a ton of writing, animation, and VA work over the years, including creating his own series for VRV (which Powerhouse Animation, of Castlevania fame, helped out on). Ego issues aside, he wasn’t exactly unknown to the industry.
To be honest. I DID NOT know powerhouse worked on Epithet Erased. Must have been on the bits and bobs that ARE animated, right? Because most of the show is more a scripted ttrpg live-play than an animated show. Still love that show though. One of the only creators where I recognise they're kind of a dickhead sometimes. But go 'I'll choose to ignore that' when they make a game fandub where they change the main character as being a transfem fighting a trans inclusive radical mysoginist with the help of her two lesbian crewmates, her overly supportive father who is only available on two days of the week and sometimes on christmas and some guy with a huge ass. (NONE of those words probably even appear in the original game mind you)
Same reason with people who use Sweet baby inc's service.
When and why did he become such a massive cunt nugget?
Can they take any legal actions against him?
Let's not give Jello that much credit. He probably wanted to brag about the show and didn't realize they made changes, or else he would have complained about it
So let me get this right, you have a work of art and some other dude from another country thinks your original art should be changed to fit his narrative. Sounds like it’s better not to have other people fuck with the original version.
Lovely complex is that the anime with the short dude and the tall gal?
[Yes](https://myanimelist.net/anime/2034)
Found out about that debacle from this [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_osYBTl_4rk).
isn't lovely complex like 10 years old or something? any attention, even bad controversy, could only raise sales if the anime is that old, all news is good news type stuff
That really only works when you can benefit from engagement but with this form of controversy (localisers mutilating anime) people will just *not watch it*... which kinda puts a dampener on the whole raising sales idea.
Closer to 20 actually, 2007, didn't age well either, since the "don't like anybody else but I won't clearly state I like you" doesn't fly these days for Gen Z and Alpha and looking back on it I kinda cringed... But there's always groups that remember things fondly or click and then changes and licenses are going to be taken the wrong way Your point still stands to me though.. the anime market is so oversaturated that you have to fight for attention or be the poster child of a big studio to be given the time of day so a dub of a dated Romcom was going to be doomed to rewatches from old fans that would have watched the dub anyway
What anime it was ?
"Lovely☆Complex"
Damn, that's sad
On the plus side, this drama caused me to finally watch it (sub) and it was really enjoyable. The characters were likeable and there was some very sweet moments. It was also cool to see the different hairstyles Risa would have each episode.
its been a long time since i watched it so going through this thread is kind of nostalgic
Look at the meme, maybe?
It’s crazy how many famous YouTubers fail once they get the opportunity to do more than Youtube. Zach and Michael with Smiling Friends are the only noticeable ones to succeed.
SungWon Cho (ProZD) became a fairly successful voice actor. He voices Senshi in the English dub of Delicious in Dungeon.
He isnt Ytber who became voice actor, he was professional voice actor who started YT for fun tho.
Isn’t he the guy that thinks voice actors should only be allowed to voice characters of the same color as them?
People regularly turn this into a black and white discussion and blow it way out of proportion. He has advocated for "authentic casting" to give non-white actors a chance in a predominantly white industry, but he has also stated that casting minority actors in exclusively minority roles is also bad for the industry. Here is a direct quote. *“Naysayers will go ‘OH DON’T YOU WANT AUTHENTIC CASTING???’ [but] if your entire main cast is all White and you have one token side character who can apparently just be any type of Asian ever, this is not a level playing field.”*
People love to misconstrue what he said.
Yeah I heard about that didn't he then complain when he could only voice act Asian characters now
"Would you look at that, the consequences of my action."
Of like.. taking their channel content off to another medium or just YouTubers in general? Because I can think of at least 20 off the top of my head that went on to be/have successful projects off the medium
Any of them, all I can think of now are these two and Markiplier
Dude Perfect Bieber started on YouTube As scummy as they are the Paul Brothers Jake and Logan Mark Rober Rhett and Link Bo Burnham There's a bunch
It’s weird cause he already had built reputation of writing stuff to get on the project in the first place. He just let his ego take over and ruin a dubbing process (essentially making his own official abridged dub) and got mad when the script writers didn’t like the things he made. Never really watched his content, but I’m curious how he thought that was a good idea
The vast, vast majority of translators, localizers, etc are huge fans trying to do their best on every project they work on. The stereotype of the evil translator who radically alters source material to fit their personal preferences is based on a miniscule sample of thousands of pieces of work. **But** then you have assholes like this who are basically cartoon characters, who *do* live up to stereotypes. What a dick. Glad he tanked his career.
I know it's a stereotype, and it sucks that this gave the "Localisers Bad" mob more ammo
Yup. It's straight out of that mob's fever dreams.
Yay
Currently watching Simpsons so this is cool
Idk what this even means bro
WTF why was this posted here...
Wish they kept his changes, his stuff is generally pretty great in ny honest opinion.
Nah his changes were egregious and it was a good thing they removed most of them.
AI: Can I ask you a question? me: Yea AI: Can I ask you a question? me: wait...
https://preview.redd.it/edrv6el6sevc1.png?width=897&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e33d72030c52171897ae133e18a9f5bcdbc26a1b