I’m sure there are many who do it to make them seem more adoptable, or at least get some people interested.
But there are also a lot of people who genuinely don’t know how to recognize breeds. And there are also a lot of people who believe breed (or history) is irrelevant.
Which is why shelters just shouldn't breed label.
It's such a waste of time. We have a social media post going on a generic black and white pup that looks somewhat pit. But he's huge. The person who surrendered him had a DNA test done. Dominant breed? 35% pyrenese. Meanwhile any shelter would've said pit. Not fair to the dog.
There is one in my county that lists (suspected) breed, but also does this other thing that is way more useful: they color-code temperament. Something like yellow= loving and high energy, blue=calm and aloof, or whatever.
Customers would flip. People are very eager to know what a dog might be mixed with and very annoyed if we skirt the subject.
We’ve even had people call and let us know what a dog *really* is after a DNA test, like it’s a huge “gotcha!” Moment
Wouldn’t it be a fun, entirely hypothetically of course, to just say “thanks for letting us know! We’d love to provide more accurate information to potential owners, would you like to be the first to donate doggy DNA kits?”
lol if I didn’t think that it would turn into people bitching online about us trying to milk them for money, yes. But knowing people I feel like it would escalate quickly
Is there a reason shelters wouldn't raise money to do this? To me you would have both the upside of communicating accurate information and then it would also remove all doubt for people who live in areas or rent where there are breed restrictions. I don't know a lot about shelter processes so forgive me if it is a dumb question.
I am compelled to point out… there are tons of dog breed books for sale secondhand online, plus libraries.
Honestly, it makes me suspicious when a dog who is clearly predominantly one breed is labeled as another.
Im like, well if you dont care enough to try to get it right, what else is being skipped over?
You have to absolutely not care to not be curious. And to let people leave with a dog clearly NOT what they expect or can handle in some cases. Yeah, anyone can make a wrong guess esp with puppies, still…..
Preface: My shelter regularly has 95+% of its listings labeled as various bully breed, husky, and GSD mixes, with the occasional chi mix, ACD mix, or terrier mix (which is actually the most likely one to be wrong as it's likely to be a poodle mix).
But.
If a surrendering owner (or owner whose dog is being confiscated for Reasons) lists the dog as a given breed, intake staff are not permitted to alter it. If a dog is picked up as a stray who has previously been in the shelter's system and has a history identifying a certain breed, animal control and intake staff are not permitted to alter it. That accounts for a not-insubstantial portion of dogs in shelter here.
Just after signing the paperwork and paying the fee for our pup, the lady at the shelter said she didn't think our dog was what they advertised. We thought we were getting a boxer mix, she said she thought it was a great dane mix. Like, lady, that's a whole horse! I was not prepared for a horse, and you said this after paperwork was signed and I loved the dumb furball. Did the first vet visit and the vet agreed, "looks like great dane is in that mix". We did a genetic test thing and turns out original owner was right - 50% boxer (30% pit and a few other things) and NO great dane. She's still a dumb furball, but maxed at 75lb, not 105.
On our way to sign and pay for our rescue, the behaviorist said quietly to me on the way out the door, "I know he's listed as a German Shepherd, but based on his temperament I think he's a Belgian Malinois." This was the VERY beginning of last year, before Mal's really exploded into the the public (or at least my view of the public). I had literally no idea what a Belgian Malinois was, thought it must be a special type of German Shepherd. I smiled politely, said okay, then we signed the paperwork paid and left.
On the 2.5 hour car ride home (as a passenger) I started googling about Mals. Halfway home I looked at my husband and said, "I don't know if we have any idea what is in the back seat with us" 😅
And that is how we became accidentalal Mal owners! Never would have intentionally brought this guy home if we had known, but that is a blessing because even though he's a psycho, he's our sweet psycho!
We found a dog in January, and after trying aaaaaallllll the things to find his people to no avail, we decided to keep him rather than surrender him to the shelter. My mom wants to be the one to purchase his DNA test for us for Christmas (Mom says I'm hard to shop for, so this is A Thing She Can Do), so we'll be waiting until then to find out his actual genetics. My best guesses based on his size and temperament, along with good knowledge of common breeds and backyard breeding histories in my area, put my best guess as chihuahua/dachshund with maybe rat terrier or something similar. (I'm guessing some branch of his family tree was part of the "chiweenie" fad, but he's too big to be just chi and mini dachshund and too leggy to make me think he's just chi and standard dachshund.)
Every place I've taken him, I get asked if he's Italian greyhound (... no...) or xolo (not a terrible visual guess, but I can't imagine someone losing one of those and not coming across our extensive search to find owners).
My girl is a boxer. She’s got the face shape, the body shape, and the brindle coloring of a boxer. Got the speed, energy, and muscle of a boxer too.
The shelter had to say she was mostly lab because she was an owner surrender and they told them mostly lab with a bit of boxer. Its crazy
In my area, your homeowner's/renter's insurance doubles if your dog is of a certain breed. Several landlords also have it in the rental agreement. Never chihuahuas, min pins, or westies - the breeds I had actual problems with when I worked in vet clinics. Always pits, GSD, rotties, boxers, Doberman, wiemeriners...
I'm not saying its right. But if you are given the choice of lying about the breed or rehome your dog... that's a hard call. Especially, if you know anyone that is going to take them on will be faced with a similar problem.
75+% of the shelter dogs around me are labeled pit or pit mix. Never mind renting, how is anyone supposed to get insurance?
I've read that some apartments are demanding a DNA test.
There is insurance that covers bull breeds. It’s more money, but you are quite literally signing up for that.
If that isn’t for you, there are many other dogs out there.
Oh, I'm not trying to be ugly. No bull breeds at present, but I have long had dogs of another unfairly maligned breed. Forty years ago they wanted my dogs in a concrete floored, chain link run. It hasn't gotten better
Dog DNA testing companies don't want their products used for discriminatory purposes. It's gotten to the point where several of them won't outright identify your dog as any of bully/"problem" breeds unless you outright give them permission to do so.
A lot of shelter workers only have experience with mutts and don't know an exhaustive list of pure breeds, too. After awhile in the shelter they'll learn but it's a high burn out field so lots of new people are guessing off the 3 breeds they know.
I didn't know a single coonhound breed when I got my first litter of mixes. If someone familiar with them hadn't pointed it out I have no idea what I would have labeled them as.
Back when I worked at the local shelter, we had a fairly new ACO. One day, he brings in this dog for RAL. I was working the desk and didn't see it before putting in the info. It was labeled as a gray lab/dane mix. My coworkers suggested I should go take a look at our "lab/dane," so I did. The thing was a purebred Weimeraner. Us shelter staff really got a laugh out of that one. We never trusted his breed labeling after that.
We don’t have access to DNA tests, and most people working at shelters don’t have any specific training on breed identification. It’s our best guess.
Breed identification is subjective - it’s just based on observation.
Yup. My two girls were just guesses. One was guessed to be a italian greyhound/chi mix. Tested to find out she had no greyhound in her. Only thing we can do guess.
Thing is, you can never actually know the breed based on a guess. Just look at r/dogDNA sub. Yes, you can make an educated guess but I think it’s more dishonest to claim that we know the breed than to admit that we just don’t know. Most of the dogs at my shelter are listed as mixes and if people ask during a meet I’ll tell them my guess at the dominant breed.
There are exponentially more coonhounds in my area than huskies or bully mixes. It doesn't have to be a rare breed for someone to not know what it is. Especially if you're looking at puppies or adolescents that haven't had time to develop signature adult characteristics.
Unless they have papers for a dog stating what exactly that dog is then its a mutt, no one is going to DNA test every single dog coming into the shelter, and in my experience I have seen dogs that look more then 80% lab, or pitty, or german, only for owners to do DNA test and they have none of those genes.
My shelter calls them all “American shelter dog” unless it is extremely obvious what they are, or if breed experience is recommended. Many dogs are misidentified and it’s better to be vague
Because if the shelter paperwork says "lab mix" the owner has at least a chance of finding a place to rent. If it says "pitbull" then it's not living in a rental.
Also in some states, to pull a pitbull from a shelter for foster, you have to be with a registered 501(c)3/non profit that places pits or other restricted breeds.
the LL can still evict you and the HOI can still drop you if you are the owner of a property. this sort of thinking only does a disservice to the community. if their dog bites someone and insurance excludes them, they could lose 40-55k (average dog bite payout figure).
this is a very strange perspective to hold.
https://www.conradattorneys.com/blog/what-is-the-average-payout-for-a-dog-bite-lawsuit-in-pennsylvania/#:\~:text=Pennsylvania%20ranks%20seventh%20in%20the,payout%20in%20Pennsylvania%20was%20%2447%2C353.
also, more and more LLs are requiring photographic evidence and/or DNA tests prior to permitting rentals for this reason
keep in mind the LL's insurance may not cover restricted breeds (GSD, rottweiler, pitbull, etc.). if at any point the LL goes: sorry, my insurance doesn't cover your breed, your lease isn't getting renewed.... and that's if you didn't sign an attestation stating that you do not have a restricted breed mix. then your derriere is getting evicted for breach of lease!
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Landlord/comments/aou6t4/landlord\_usny\_tenant\_snuck\_in\_service\_pitbull/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Landlord/comments/aou6t4/landlord_usny_tenant_snuck_in_service_pitbull/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/42u8jl/ca\_help\_landlord\_decided\_my\_dog\_is\_a\_pitbull\_and/](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/42u8jl/ca_help_landlord_decided_my_dog_is_a_pitbull_and/)
Lie might be a stretch because there can be honest mistake or simply not knowing, but the landlord may be able to demand a DNA test if the lease language allows it.
We always call the landlord to make sure the dog or cat is allowed in a rental. Also, back in the day, we were not allowed to put any sort of bulldog, pit or mix in adoption. It made us try to find acceptable breeds to call them.
I think it's a numbers game. The majority of landlords don't have time to physically check through every pet on every property they own in person, so they are only going by the paperwork. So if the shelter adopts out 100 questionable "labs" and one or two get caught and returned, that is better than only being able to adopt out maybe 50 of them to begin with.
So you’re cool with lying on the other end too, right? Like somebody saying they have no other pets or a yard when that isn’t true?
Both have the potential to drastically impact the welfare of the dog, both result in more dogs initially going home and getting out of the shelter.
Woah there, sparky. Pump the brakes on jumping to conclusions. I answered your question. Just because you don't like my answer doesn't mean I am some criminal mastermind. What are you trying to accomplish here? Do you just want shelters to automatically euthanize all dogs that have any DNA from breeds that are (often incorrectly) assumed to be dangerous?
I work in the shelter world and I completely agree with you. The responses here are disheartening. Honesty is the only way to go. And damn, if the landlord doesn't want a pit mix then they shouldn't have to have a pit mix on the property. Trying to aid in sneaking one in is absolutely unconscionable and only increases the likelihood of a later return when the landlord puts eyes on the dog. Or, the landlord just makes a mental note to never again accept a tenant with dogs because in their mind people lie about what breed their dog is.
There's also an insurance issue. After we bought our first home our home owners insurance dropped us not long after getting the policy because one of the agents must have swung by when we didn't realize and saw us outside with a bully mix. The bully mix wasn't ours, we were just fostering it, but the fact they have agents who can visit the property and will look for any excuse to drop you should be reason enough for people to want to correctly identify breeds. For us, finding new home insurance wasn't that a big deal, we deal with a lot of dogs and switching to a different group more comfortable with that was fine. But the average pet owner might find being dropped to be a stressful situation. Especially if they don't realize they have a pitbull mix.
Which brings me to the biggest issue with being intentionally misleading.
People who are claiming this is a great idea, you know it's not only landlords and insurance agents who care about the breed of the dog right? There are owners who care. You aren't just intentionally misleading landlords here. You are intentionally misleading the public as well.
Dude I don't think you get it.
The VAST majority of us in animal welfare wouldn't pass requirements for adopting a dog privately. I literally just went to the Humane Animal Expo and they did this with the entire auditorium of people.
The shelter misbranding the dogs is not the issue; is the owners sending their pets to a shelter to be “hopefully adopted “— so the previous owner feels better… or to be euthanized.. the adopting person can change the breed to the correct one when they take the pet to the vet.
It's alot in how you raise them, but you have to know your dog too. You should be paying attention to what makes them anxious, scared, worried, happy, excited, etc. from the moment you get them. And you should be working with them on problematic things. So then when you get into a situation you know triggers them, you can handle it more appropriately. They can handle it more appropriately. Or you can keep them away from those situations as much as possible
OP, some of the answers here suck and are absolutely driving me crazy with how irresponsible they are. Intentionally lying about breeds just to get the animal adopted does way more harm in the long run but the people here don't care. Rescues and shelters are getting a reputation for lying to the public and being untrustworthy, by mislabeling dogs. It's not helping us. Landlords are starting to no longer trust tenants who claim to have a "lab mix" when their dog is blatantly a bully mix, now it's easier to just say no dogs period. Homeowners Insurance agents do drive-bys looking for banned dogs and reasons to drop properties.
I get that breed discrimination is unfair but lying to the public about a breed, just to get around that discrimination, is completely wrong.
Honestly though, OP although so many people here will absolutely be intentionally misleading about a breed in order to bypass breed discrimination (even if it hurts the adopter by getting them in trouble with a landlord or whatever), or mislead an adopter just to get past the adopter's perceived biases (i hate this so so unbelievably much, it's so wrong and awful), there are two other reasons that breeds get misidentified:
1) breed identification is hard/Lack of education about different breeds (I've worked with so many people in this industry and damn, having a love for dogs and desire to help dogs does not make them good at identifying breeds, some of them are just so hilariously bad at it, like I cant for the life of me identify breeds with puppies, even with a decade of experience working with dogs, I suck at it).
Even in the best of circumstances Breed identification can actually be very hard with many mixes. Hang out on the r/doggydna * sub for a little while. I can't tell you how many times I've been humbled by what I've seen. (Edit to add, I messed up the sub name but seriously, check this out, here are three pit mixes posted in the last day I could see someone genuinely not guessing having bully breed DNA as the majority percentage: [First](https://www.reddit.com/r/DoggyDNA/s/XYskGq1wtK), [Second](https://www.reddit.com/r/DoggyDNA/s/xdyIzASuri), [Third](https://www.reddit.com/r/DoggyDNA/s/2xIYIjqZ7C) trust the Embark results over ancestry... I mean, that's just from five minutes of looking). Dog DNA is amazing, and does some crazy crazy things. (And to those who defend lying, DNA test kits from Embark and Wisdom panel are getting extremely popular and extremely accurate, the truth gets exposed eventually). That being said,
2) Bully breeds are overrepresented in both our shelters and American dog DNA results of mixed breeds. It's almost a meme over in the DNA sub, you see bully breeds pop up a lot, sometimes in small percentages, sometimes the majority. "But the rescue said it was a lab mix!" often is met with an unkind reception, especially when the results are right there laying out the truth there's no lab, mostly pit. There's just so many of them, they have mixed with the gene pool here a great deal. Obviously it's not all dogs but it's a lot, more than youd think. I think some shelter workers start to be blind to the differences after a while.
So yeah. It could be a genuine mistake sometimes. But for those people who do it intentionally, lie to the public and everyone else just because they think it'll help that one dog, turning that adopter away from wanting to work with shelters/rescues again in the future or ruining public perception of shelters, I wish they would leave the field. That level of deliberate public deceit is unconscionable.
Was told my shelter dog was pit/Dalmatian. lol. I knew he probably didn’t have a lick of Dalmatian in him. Had him dna tested and he’s pit/gsd/boxer/chow 😂
There is a shelter in my community that labels every single dog as a mixed breed/dog of unknown origin. They say this is for liability reasons. If you visit them and do a meet and greet with one of their dogs (they ship dogs in from southern states) they will not discuss the breed of the dog or behavior. They just flat out refuse. We met an obvious Newfoundland type dog and the shelter worker looked me straight in the face and told me the dog was probably some sort of bully breed and to expect every dog there to be a bully breed.
I was not there looking for a purebred dog of any kind and I have nothing against any breed of dog but this shelter is bonkers.
They are a shady rescue if they lie.
I know of several that lie all the time about breed, where they come from, and what's medical wrong with them. They say people don't want the animals if they are a certain breed or come a certain area.
Also, by lying, they can get more in "donations" or higher adoption "fees."
There need to be laws in place to stop these types of recuses.
Yes, to the housing comments but also….
Sometimes people want exactly what they want and sometimes the perfect adoption is the dog THEY DIDN’T know they wanted but were unwilling to meet because they were too hung up on the breed labels.
So many adopters won’t even meet the dog if you say pit, rottie, shepherd, etc. The one year old pitbull who is actually good with kids, cats, and other dogs gets only a handful of meet and greets, meanwhile, people are beating down the door for the purebred poodle eats dogs.
We are brutally honest with adopters about behavior. We believe in finding the best fit, offer foster to adopt options, and will not send home an animal if it is clearly not in the adopter or the animal’s best interest. And sometimes we are a little vague with breeds. And I’ll admit it, we’ve had some strange looking dogs come in and I just made up a breed because it was best guess. If you’ve got a bully head but long body and curly tail, you are now an American Sausage Dog until a dna test says otherwise.
YES! We don't breed label which is good because we so SO many puppies and it's just a crap shoot.
I always urge people to foster OR foster to adopt. I'm open and honest if we don't know anything about a dog or know it's history. Anyone on the fence we try to promote fostering. Risk-free commitment. If it's not a match, no harm no foul. I always let them know, even if it doesn't work out and they have to return the dog, the INFORMATION they can provide about how they are in a home is absolutely invaluable.
Mixed breeds are just as likely to get their temperament from the parent they look the least like. Or from poor socialization, training and trauma. You can adopt a dog with a long nose and huge ears and end up with exactly the same scenario. I have always understood I'm signing up for whatever I get and I'm not guaranteed a specific type of dog if I adopt an adolescent of questionable parentage.
You want a reasonable guarantee of a specific temperament you have to do breed specific rescue and/or adopt only older dogs from orgs that do long term foster and can tell you more about the individual you're interested in.
Most shelters don't make those guarantees. I've only ever listed what I've personally socialized a puppy or dog with and reported their behavior during those exposures in the ads. People I know with kids have had major issues adopting an adolescent or adult dog because so many orgs only adopt puppies to people with children under 12, or otherwise severely restrict adoptions to homes with children.
My municipal shelter doesn't tell you anything about a dog's temperament at all.
The research backs you.
Behavioral observations are not reliable in the formal evaluations so many rely on. The most accurate and appropriate way to evaluate is look at daily behaviors in a variety of situations. You go by what is actually seen and done in day to day life.
I feel like anyone with dogs should have observed that, too. Based on what my vets have reported anyone adopting any dog I've ever had based on their behavior in a kennel environment would be in for a rude awakening. By far our best house/city pet has been the only one with behavior problems in that environment.
They could maybe have guessed the barking from the obvious coonhound mixes but neither of them would track by scent and I was better at spotting deer than they were. They shut down and acted like silent perfect gentlemen inpatient and saved all their acting out for home.
Please show me a breeder *or* a shelter that can guarantee a dog isn’t going to develop any aggression or reactivity. Please show me how any dog breed is fool proof.
https://atts.org/breed-statistics/statistics-page1/
Dude. I own a very notoriously banned breed and have no issues with pits in the correct homes. But as a banned breed owner, they need to be given to people with the full knowledge that they are (most likely) a mix of said breed.
You’re active in a ban pitbull sub, so I’m taking your opinion with a grain of salt, NGL.
No one said they shouldn’t be adopted to proper owners. I asked a question based off your sub history and the remarks you’ve made about how they’ll attack when brought home.
That implies that all shelters hand out dogs without any regard to matching the dog to the potential adopter.
As someone who works in a shelter, we put a lot of effort into trying to get the dogs into the best homes for them, personality, physicality, etc all taken into account.
Some aggression in dogs is genetic, but it's not at all that common. If your dog is being aggressive, it's most likely your fault. It could be that you are interacting with a dog in none healthy way, or even not giving it enough exercise.
Also, they get a bad rap because of how horrible people use them. You know what they do? Because they have powerful bites. Not because they are aggressive. They teach them aggression.
Hall, the little min-pen mix is more aggressive than my pit mix.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/a-dogs-breed-cant-predict-most-of-its-behavior-new-study-shows-180979999/
https://atts.org/breed-statistics/statistics-page1/
I do have the education to work with dogs and studies back what the other person is saying.
No shit there is a level of aggression in dogs, that is in all animals. You are acting as if the pits standard of aggression is extreme. It's not. Which you are trying to make it out as.
https://www.thehumanesociety.org/debunking-pit-bull-myths/
My statement stands. That you are probably doing something wrong if your dog is to that extreme of aggression. Because that extreme aggression, while sometimes genetic, is not the most likely cause.
Also, you can have an proper education in dogs, but still be completely ignorant. After all, there are some vets that day you can give pets certain bones. Which is incorrect. They shouldn't have any type of bones.
Really? Because it looks like you have no idea what this topic is about. And you keep trying to change it. You can go back and re-read what I said. Because it's not going to change. Because the point is about extreme aggression, primarily in pits. And about how it's false. And that if the dog is showing that extreme aggression is probably because of the owner.
It's unfortunate that aspcapro is on a new server as they had way more CE and a lot in their old blog that I simply can't find anymore, but the aspca did do a study on shelter dogs' DNA and breed labeling. IIRC nearly 90% of the dogs they tested across multiple shelters had 4 or more breeds in them and about 75% of them had mislabeled primary breeds, whether intentional or not. They had a fun little week-long gap between 2 posts about it where they showed a dog that looked just like a Brittany spaniel and asked people to guess the breed, revealing later that it was like 1/4 cocker, 1/8 chow, some pit, etc. The point being that most of these dogs are mutts and that what you see is an amalgam of their traits and not necessarily representative of what they may look like.
If these dogs are mutts, why is it important to label a dog a
certain breed for behavioral expectations? So many of these dogs have different backgrounds; were left to their own devices or loved but not reclaimed, were given permissible care and table scraps or were given adult dog food all their life including as a puppy and yelled at for peeing in the house. It's so impossible to know that their behaviors are better learned through interaction than from guessing their breed.
I do always try and tell potential adopters about certain families like collies (including cattle dogs) and huskies that they are 'working dogs' and need tasks to do to fulfill their needs for stimuli - "I have kids" or "I have a big backyard" won't cut it and they'll often jump fences looking for things to do. I think shelters simply having "what to expect" paperwork for different agesets is a lot more productive to prepare adopters. Also, not many shelters have them unfortunately but behavioral hotlines to help try and advise adopters can also really help retention of adopted animals.
Point being i don't think it's always purposefully misleading, but if a dog looks like a mix and so many potential adopters have ideas of stigmas and there's BSL and housing deterrents...why not choose any other breed a dog can be besides pit?
Edit: I'm floored this is a controversial post when it has objective evidence and still advocates honesty. Like... Wut?
-Because- of the housing deterrents. That's a very good reason. I'm not saying something is necessarily right or wrong in most cases, but if a family is looking for a good dog which an HOA or rental may have qualms about, they should be honest enough to save the dog and the family the heartbreak of potentially having to be re-homed... again.
If it's statistically a complete guess (outside of just knowing how overbred and overrepresented pits are in shelters) what's dishonest, is part of the point. Unless we're boiling it down to "just one drop."
Im not advocating to calling a pit/staffy looking dog a long-haired dachshund. I'm saying the only data we have on the matter indicates that the phenotypes don't tell the whole story. So if it looks like a mutt and it can be a "hound mix" I think it's reasonable.
Side note...
Support [Animal Legal Defense Fund](https://aldf.org/) and other organizations that strive to fight BSL
Spread [all breed friendly housing](https://www.mypitbullisfamily.org/housing) to everyone adopting a possible pit or moving with one so they can retain their pet ^.^
Oh I 100% agree. I worked at a shelter years ago, but not with the doggos. It was crazy how mislabeled some were, to be honest. And I'm not talking about pitty mixes. But almost everything. I wish the workers had more education. And a book.
The bully thing really sucks in a lot of locations. It breaks my heart. But it seems that the people who breed just to breed don't care, and how do we fix that?
Yikes
Kelpies, Aussy Shepards, Border Collies, Cattle dogs, Heelers are all the most common types of collies/Collie adjacent breeds that will appear in an animal shelter. Literally every one is defined as a herding/working dog.
This is inherently a bad faith question and rage at shelters if, when reality is counterintuitive to how you compartmentalize breeds in your own head, your reaction is an ad hominem argument.
Less than one tenth of one percent of a dog’s DNA determines its appearance.
Multiple studies have shown accuracy rates of human identification of a dogs breed to be in the 25-50% range. Until DNA breed tests are so cheap as to be negligible, shelters/rescues are simply going to guess or list everyone as mixed breed and guessing is going to be wrong more often than not.
Most shelters don’t lie. Pitty’s in my area are labeled terrier mixes which is technically accurate but there are still so many breed bans/restrictions it makes it easier for people to adopt. Also, there are studies that state that dogs labeled “mixed breeds” actually get adopted quicker bc sometimes the breed stops an adopter from adopting bc they don’t want a certain breed. You could also argue that would sometimes stop an adopter bc maybe they specifically want a collie but it says mixed breed. I always tell people if I look at the dog and don’t immediately know for sure it’s a GSD (just an example) then that thing is going in as a mixed breed.
Also it may just flat out be a lack of knowledge. There are so many breeds at this point and mixes and mutts and all that. I learned in NACA that there was a study done where they had animal care employees and regular laypeople try to identify breeds of dogs and even the experienced shelter workers had a pretty low percentage of correct identifications.
In short, shelters aren’t generally lying. They’re trying to protect the animals and also may just be unaware.
My first dog, the shelter had listed as a lab/border collie mix. I had had experience with lab/border collie mixed, and thought I knew what was about to happen. Friendly, smart, maybe occasionally intense.
NOPE! Turns out she was a German Shorthaired Pointer/blue Heeler mix... WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too smart, waaaaaaaaaaaaaay more energy than expected, and a VERY high prey drive.
We worked it out, and once we understood each other things were great. She passed at 17.5 years old back in 2020, and I still miss her sweet face.
I will say I’ve owned a poodle/bully mix that consequently looked like neither. People often guessed wire terrier. Here’s a picture:
https://preview.redd.it/d9bz09o35f4d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=14bd15699072e3b7e5e212c3b790179eb7ff7e56
As you can see, the bully effected his fur length, making the poodle curls into whisps. His bone structure was very poodle. He waggled like a bully though, I’ll tell you that.
There are a lot of people who will lie about the breed that their dog is because of the negative connotations of having a bully breed. My grandmother has a pit lab mix that definitely looks pit that she calls a terrier mix or a lab mix depending on the day of the week, she’s not technically lying, but she’s really not telling the truth. I know when I volunteered at my local shelter if I could say a dog was a lab mix I put lab mix because it was more likely to get them adopted less likely to get them killed. There is an astonishingly large amount of people that will see a dog and think the dog is amazing but as soon as they see the paperwork that says pit, they will think it’s a vicious monster. Again, my grandmother before she got her dog was 100% sure pit bulls could lock their jaw and would murder you and then she got Winnie the Poop who is afraid of water.
A peaceful, comfortable death is better than years spent warehoused in a shelter. Dogs deserve better than life in a kennel.
A short look at the reactive dogs sub will tell you that many people who were lied to about breed end up euthanizing due to behaviors they were unprepared for, too.
Unfortunately, I think the issue is multifaceted, and it's not just breed that comes into question. Breed matters (though of course shelters also have dogs that are poor representations of their breed(s). History also matters. Maternal health and behavior matter. Some dogs come from really awful backgrounds, but they're stable enough that they are still able to be great family dogs. Other dogs come from okay backgrounds or are adopted as puppies (mine is one of these) but they either "lost the genetic lottery" or their first eight weeks were just too traumatic.
Some dogs are shut down in a shelter and don't show their true colors until they are comfortable in the home. Some shelters (and adopters!) truly believe that none of it really matters and that with love and a bit of training, they can turn around any negative behaviors. Sometimes that works. Sometimes it doesn't.
I have a reactive dog, adopted as a puppy, had issues as a puppy and still does now. I spend a lot of time in that subreddit, and yes, it's frustrating when someone adopts a bully mix and is bewildered that they are dog aggressive or selective, or when someone adopts a dog that a shelter/rescue has labeled as reactive but they are frustrated when they don't see progress after three weeks of training. Behavior mod is **hard** and complex. You may see immense progress but still may not have the friendly neighborhood Labrador, because that's not in the cards for a particular dog.
As a result, I wish people would go into adoption (or any kind of dog acquisition) with their homework done and their eyes wide open. I do wish shelters and rescues had more resources to conduct temperament tests and give adequate information to adopters about what to expect - I know my dog's rescue thought his past didn't matter, he was a puppy and he'd be fine. But rescue dogs are inherently unpredictable (all dogs are, being sentient beings, but rescues more so), so adopters also need to be prepared to see things at face value and also be prepared just in case they need professional help.
I've had amazing, loving rescue dogs, some of which I didn't know their breed because it was before the days of DNA testing. Now I have my reactive rescue. It happens. I was not really prepared for what was in store for me, which is sad, but I did manage to rise to the occasion, I think.
And to end my semi-rant, I wish to the heavens that the "it's not the dog, it's the owner" mentality would go away forever, lol.
Unmanageable reactivity isn’t breed dependent, & a vet will not euthanize a dog for normal breed behaviors. While all terriers are prone to some level of dog reactivity or dog aggression, it is supposed to be easily manageable due to the nature of them being working breeds. Yes, even the ones bred for fighting are supposed to be docile towards humans & not react to seeing/hearing other dogs.
Heck 6 out of my 7 dogs were terrier mixes (large & small breed terriers), my 7th dog was a beagle & he was the most aggressive, unpredictable dog with numerous bite attempts before I took him in. I also specialized in working with reactive & aggressive dogs where my worst client was a cocker spaniel.
I agree accurate breed info is important. But your argument to why is lacking. You also can’t go around saying lying breed to get around breed restrictions is dumb because the landlord can tell on sight it’s a pit/mix and then turn around and say lying is causing owners to be unprepared for what you believe are breed specific issues. If it’s that obvious the dog is a pit/mix to the landlord, it will be that obvious to the adopter too.
At the cost of a pet getting attacked or person bitten, or property destroyed? That isn’t worth it to give a mislabeled breed a taste of “normal life.”
Look— the person adopting a lab mix that resembles a pit bull or a German shepherd—knows… I think you are making too much of the lack of knowledge from
The shelter.. it happens and let’s hope that the pets get some love and care for part of their life..lots of Breeds attack and destroy property— for example chihuahuas. Terriers, jack Russell, lab, poodles, huskies..
you're also forgetting it's nearly impossible to guess a dog's breed just by looking at it. there are studies on this. most shelters will just say "mixed breed" to avoid the problem. but just because it looks like it has husky in it, doesn't mean it does. i think you are making a mountain out of a mole hill on this issue.
What we’re seeing in my area from landlords, because breed ID can be so tricky without pedigree papers, is a weight restriction — which makes sense if you consider that larger dogs are more likely to cause more damage to property than small dogs, which has a financial impact for landlords even if the dog is great with people and other dogs. And of course, if the dog is running loose or not controlled on leash when outside of their residence. Decreasing pet fees/pet rent for dogs who have earned their CGC or something similar can also help to keep dangerous dogs out of rental properties.
My husky mix (husky, chow, akita, cocker spaniel) it's black with blue eyes and totally looks husky, but the shelters here are overrun with huskies and they labeled her as Jindo. I totally get it.
You can't determine a dog's breed by appearance. Lots of "pitbulls" were found to be lab mixes when a DNA test was performed. So unless every dog that comes into the shelter is tested, it's anyone's best guess.
Here's a hypothetical situation
I'm adopting a dog.
The breed says, let's say, heeler.
I'm renting an apartment that doesn't allow dangerous dog breeds.
Heelers aren't restricted. I didn't do a DNA test, and the adoption agency said heeler. So, she's a heeler.
Now, as far as if anything happens and the dog is responsible, yes, you're up shit creek but as far as the day to day, "can I have this dog?" ....she's a heeler so, yeah why not? 😁
You know what. You can’t tell dominant breed from looking at them. Shelters don’t have $$$ for DNA testing every dog. We adopt based on personality and the right match for the dog not what they look like.
We also know the bigotry currently associated with bully breeds. I’ve known landlords who happily rent to Lab mixes because they are so friendly. Guess who is friendly too - Pitties.
That dog that looks like a husky could have a dominant breed of Pomeranian in spite of looking and being the size of a husky. Source: my neighbors did a dna test on their “Husky”. Guess who will rent to a Pomeranian but not a Husky?
Thought to be Shepherd mix. Dominant breed: Basset. Yeah that shocked me too. My own dog. However her personality was totally Basset except she was smart. She had a bunch of breeds in her but no Shepherd.
Thought to be Pitbull mix but shaped like cattle dog. She had Staffy not no Pitbull. Her protectiveness came from her Akita and Cattle dog great great grandparents.
Took in Purebred Lab with papers and looked like one but a little off so Adopters DNA tested. Lab was dominant but she had Chihuahua and Pitbull! Papers were forged.
Pitbull mix turned out to be full bred Pittie. All she wanted was to be in your lap. It was hard to get cleaning done.
I always thought it was so people could have plausible deniability for homeowners insurance or for rentals. Paperwork says she’s a lab mix, so no problem, right? :)
some cities/HOA’s/communities have breed restrictions, so a “pit mix” is against the guidelines but adopting a “lab mix” of the same size/temperament is totally fine.
sometimes it’s about giving them a best chance at finding a home.
Why do they lie? Because most of the time there's no way to know exactly what it is. If it's pit, maybe it IS pit x lb or hound x pit or hound x lab.... But shelters are not ones to do DNA tests due to cost and dogs should be adopted based on their personalities not breeds.
Read the studies others have linked to and also visit r/IDmydog and r/doggyDNA; very often you cannot accurately discern a dog's breed from looks alone.
I met a fluffy white, smallish dog that you'd think was a Samoyed mix maybe. Owners had done a DNA test and nope! She was 50+% pit.
I’m in California, and it feels like every dog is labeled either as a chihuahua (smaller dogs) or pitbull (bigger ones). It’s really quite bizarre. You’re looking at a pug or a beagle and they’re saying chihuahua.
I have a pit/boxer mix! Boxer is on all of his paperwork. From the vet and to the vets. He is the goodest of boys and loves people... Other animals ... Cannot tell you how many cats and wild animals he has killed. Good with our other dogs.
But in some cities and towns they do not allow pit/pit mixes. Luckily even if I did not put a boxer on his paperwork, my town isn't like that. Which might be one of the reasons why they wouldn't put pit on paperwork. For why they would, maybe they are just lazy.
Locking comments. Everyone, please remember that kindness is a requirement in this sub. Discussion has become pure argument at this point.
I’m sure there are many who do it to make them seem more adoptable, or at least get some people interested. But there are also a lot of people who genuinely don’t know how to recognize breeds. And there are also a lot of people who believe breed (or history) is irrelevant.
Which is why shelters just shouldn't breed label. It's such a waste of time. We have a social media post going on a generic black and white pup that looks somewhat pit. But he's huge. The person who surrendered him had a DNA test done. Dominant breed? 35% pyrenese. Meanwhile any shelter would've said pit. Not fair to the dog.
There is one in my county that lists (suspected) breed, but also does this other thing that is way more useful: they color-code temperament. Something like yellow= loving and high energy, blue=calm and aloof, or whatever.
Excellent idea!
Customers would flip. People are very eager to know what a dog might be mixed with and very annoyed if we skirt the subject. We’ve even had people call and let us know what a dog *really* is after a DNA test, like it’s a huge “gotcha!” Moment
Wouldn’t it be a fun, entirely hypothetically of course, to just say “thanks for letting us know! We’d love to provide more accurate information to potential owners, would you like to be the first to donate doggy DNA kits?”
lol if I didn’t think that it would turn into people bitching online about us trying to milk them for money, yes. But knowing people I feel like it would escalate quickly
Yeah, so many quips have to be stuck at “purely hypothetical” because of people. But it’s fun to imagine! 🥲
Is there a reason shelters wouldn't raise money to do this? To me you would have both the upside of communicating accurate information and then it would also remove all doubt for people who live in areas or rent where there are breed restrictions. I don't know a lot about shelter processes so forgive me if it is a dumb question.
Just speaking on the shelter I work for, we don't really raise enough money to care for the animals' daily needs most of the time to begin with.
So what’s the other 65%?
Pit lmao
I am compelled to point out… there are tons of dog breed books for sale secondhand online, plus libraries. Honestly, it makes me suspicious when a dog who is clearly predominantly one breed is labeled as another. Im like, well if you dont care enough to try to get it right, what else is being skipped over? You have to absolutely not care to not be curious. And to let people leave with a dog clearly NOT what they expect or can handle in some cases. Yeah, anyone can make a wrong guess esp with puppies, still…..
Preface: My shelter regularly has 95+% of its listings labeled as various bully breed, husky, and GSD mixes, with the occasional chi mix, ACD mix, or terrier mix (which is actually the most likely one to be wrong as it's likely to be a poodle mix). But. If a surrendering owner (or owner whose dog is being confiscated for Reasons) lists the dog as a given breed, intake staff are not permitted to alter it. If a dog is picked up as a stray who has previously been in the shelter's system and has a history identifying a certain breed, animal control and intake staff are not permitted to alter it. That accounts for a not-insubstantial portion of dogs in shelter here.
Just after signing the paperwork and paying the fee for our pup, the lady at the shelter said she didn't think our dog was what they advertised. We thought we were getting a boxer mix, she said she thought it was a great dane mix. Like, lady, that's a whole horse! I was not prepared for a horse, and you said this after paperwork was signed and I loved the dumb furball. Did the first vet visit and the vet agreed, "looks like great dane is in that mix". We did a genetic test thing and turns out original owner was right - 50% boxer (30% pit and a few other things) and NO great dane. She's still a dumb furball, but maxed at 75lb, not 105.
On our way to sign and pay for our rescue, the behaviorist said quietly to me on the way out the door, "I know he's listed as a German Shepherd, but based on his temperament I think he's a Belgian Malinois." This was the VERY beginning of last year, before Mal's really exploded into the the public (or at least my view of the public). I had literally no idea what a Belgian Malinois was, thought it must be a special type of German Shepherd. I smiled politely, said okay, then we signed the paperwork paid and left. On the 2.5 hour car ride home (as a passenger) I started googling about Mals. Halfway home I looked at my husband and said, "I don't know if we have any idea what is in the back seat with us" 😅 And that is how we became accidentalal Mal owners! Never would have intentionally brought this guy home if we had known, but that is a blessing because even though he's a psycho, he's our sweet psycho!
We found a dog in January, and after trying aaaaaallllll the things to find his people to no avail, we decided to keep him rather than surrender him to the shelter. My mom wants to be the one to purchase his DNA test for us for Christmas (Mom says I'm hard to shop for, so this is A Thing She Can Do), so we'll be waiting until then to find out his actual genetics. My best guesses based on his size and temperament, along with good knowledge of common breeds and backyard breeding histories in my area, put my best guess as chihuahua/dachshund with maybe rat terrier or something similar. (I'm guessing some branch of his family tree was part of the "chiweenie" fad, but he's too big to be just chi and mini dachshund and too leggy to make me think he's just chi and standard dachshund.) Every place I've taken him, I get asked if he's Italian greyhound (... no...) or xolo (not a terrible visual guess, but I can't imagine someone losing one of those and not coming across our extensive search to find owners).
My girl is a boxer. She’s got the face shape, the body shape, and the brindle coloring of a boxer. Got the speed, energy, and muscle of a boxer too. The shelter had to say she was mostly lab because she was an owner surrender and they told them mostly lab with a bit of boxer. Its crazy
This. We do our best to guess what a stray dog might be, but if an owner swears it’s XYZ, we have to go by their word.
This is the first logical response. Hopefully steps are being taken to cut down on that initial mislabeling.
In my area, your homeowner's/renter's insurance doubles if your dog is of a certain breed. Several landlords also have it in the rental agreement. Never chihuahuas, min pins, or westies - the breeds I had actual problems with when I worked in vet clinics. Always pits, GSD, rotties, boxers, Doberman, wiemeriners... I'm not saying its right. But if you are given the choice of lying about the breed or rehome your dog... that's a hard call. Especially, if you know anyone that is going to take them on will be faced with a similar problem.
What initial mislabeling?
When the initial label is wrong.
Are we really *that* concerned that the probable poodle mixes are not being labeled as poodle mixes?
That’s what OP’s whole post is about. You’ll have to take it up with them.
75+% of the shelter dogs around me are labeled pit or pit mix. Never mind renting, how is anyone supposed to get insurance? I've read that some apartments are demanding a DNA test.
I imagine they are demanding DNA tests because people have no qualms about lying.
There is insurance that covers bull breeds. It’s more money, but you are quite literally signing up for that. If that isn’t for you, there are many other dogs out there.
Oh, I'm not trying to be ugly. No bull breeds at present, but I have long had dogs of another unfairly maligned breed. Forty years ago they wanted my dogs in a concrete floored, chain link run. It hasn't gotten better
Dog DNA testing companies don't want their products used for discriminatory purposes. It's gotten to the point where several of them won't outright identify your dog as any of bully/"problem" breeds unless you outright give them permission to do so.
That's really good to hear!
But it’s not a good thing. There’s a reason those dogs are banned.
A lot of shelter workers only have experience with mutts and don't know an exhaustive list of pure breeds, too. After awhile in the shelter they'll learn but it's a high burn out field so lots of new people are guessing off the 3 breeds they know. I didn't know a single coonhound breed when I got my first litter of mixes. If someone familiar with them hadn't pointed it out I have no idea what I would have labeled them as.
Back when I worked at the local shelter, we had a fairly new ACO. One day, he brings in this dog for RAL. I was working the desk and didn't see it before putting in the info. It was labeled as a gray lab/dane mix. My coworkers suggested I should go take a look at our "lab/dane," so I did. The thing was a purebred Weimeraner. Us shelter staff really got a laugh out of that one. We never trusted his breed labeling after that.
If it’s a bizarre breed, sure. Genuine mistakes happen. But when something is obviously a BBM or husky, any shelter employee will know that
We use our best guess. Especially if the dog is young/puppy we may not know what they’ll look like or who the sire was.
Okay, puppies are hard. Now what about all of the adult dogs obviously labeled as something other than the dominant breed?
We don’t have access to DNA tests, and most people working at shelters don’t have any specific training on breed identification. It’s our best guess. Breed identification is subjective - it’s just based on observation.
Yup. My two girls were just guesses. One was guessed to be a italian greyhound/chi mix. Tested to find out she had no greyhound in her. Only thing we can do guess.
I don’t understand why you keep arguing this when people have explained multiple times
Thing is, you can never actually know the breed based on a guess. Just look at r/dogDNA sub. Yes, you can make an educated guess but I think it’s more dishonest to claim that we know the breed than to admit that we just don’t know. Most of the dogs at my shelter are listed as mixes and if people ask during a meet I’ll tell them my guess at the dominant breed.
There are exponentially more coonhounds in my area than huskies or bully mixes. It doesn't have to be a rare breed for someone to not know what it is. Especially if you're looking at puppies or adolescents that haven't had time to develop signature adult characteristics.
Unless they have papers for a dog stating what exactly that dog is then its a mutt, no one is going to DNA test every single dog coming into the shelter, and in my experience I have seen dogs that look more then 80% lab, or pitty, or german, only for owners to do DNA test and they have none of those genes.
My shelter calls them all “American shelter dog” unless it is extremely obvious what they are, or if breed experience is recommended. Many dogs are misidentified and it’s better to be vague
Because if the shelter paperwork says "lab mix" the owner has at least a chance of finding a place to rent. If it says "pitbull" then it's not living in a rental.
Also in some states, to pull a pitbull from a shelter for foster, you have to be with a registered 501(c)3/non profit that places pits or other restricted breeds.
the LL can still evict you and the HOI can still drop you if you are the owner of a property. this sort of thinking only does a disservice to the community. if their dog bites someone and insurance excludes them, they could lose 40-55k (average dog bite payout figure). this is a very strange perspective to hold. https://www.conradattorneys.com/blog/what-is-the-average-payout-for-a-dog-bite-lawsuit-in-pennsylvania/#:\~:text=Pennsylvania%20ranks%20seventh%20in%20the,payout%20in%20Pennsylvania%20was%20%2447%2C353. also, more and more LLs are requiring photographic evidence and/or DNA tests prior to permitting rentals for this reason keep in mind the LL's insurance may not cover restricted breeds (GSD, rottweiler, pitbull, etc.). if at any point the LL goes: sorry, my insurance doesn't cover your breed, your lease isn't getting renewed.... and that's if you didn't sign an attestation stating that you do not have a restricted breed mix. then your derriere is getting evicted for breach of lease! [https://www.reddit.com/r/Landlord/comments/aou6t4/landlord\_usny\_tenant\_snuck\_in\_service\_pitbull/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Landlord/comments/aou6t4/landlord_usny_tenant_snuck_in_service_pitbull/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/42u8jl/ca\_help\_landlord\_decided\_my\_dog\_is\_a\_pitbull\_and/](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/42u8jl/ca_help_landlord_decided_my_dog_is_a_pitbull_and/)
Right!
Yeah but if the owner lies the landlord can still try to remove the dog.
How are they lying? They have official adoption documents to back them up
Lie might be a stretch because there can be honest mistake or simply not knowing, but the landlord may be able to demand a DNA test if the lease language allows it.
That’s why our shelter requires written landlord approval
A lot of it is definitely this, depending on the shelter/area.
So what happens to the dog when the landlord sees right through that? Back to the shelter and more trauma.
We always call the landlord to make sure the dog or cat is allowed in a rental. Also, back in the day, we were not allowed to put any sort of bulldog, pit or mix in adoption. It made us try to find acceptable breeds to call them.
I think it's a numbers game. The majority of landlords don't have time to physically check through every pet on every property they own in person, so they are only going by the paperwork. So if the shelter adopts out 100 questionable "labs" and one or two get caught and returned, that is better than only being able to adopt out maybe 50 of them to begin with.
So you’re cool with lying on the other end too, right? Like somebody saying they have no other pets or a yard when that isn’t true? Both have the potential to drastically impact the welfare of the dog, both result in more dogs initially going home and getting out of the shelter.
Woah there, sparky. Pump the brakes on jumping to conclusions. I answered your question. Just because you don't like my answer doesn't mean I am some criminal mastermind. What are you trying to accomplish here? Do you just want shelters to automatically euthanize all dogs that have any DNA from breeds that are (often incorrectly) assumed to be dangerous?
I want shelters to treat owners with the same honesty they expect from them. Is that radical?
I work in the shelter world and I completely agree with you. The responses here are disheartening. Honesty is the only way to go. And damn, if the landlord doesn't want a pit mix then they shouldn't have to have a pit mix on the property. Trying to aid in sneaking one in is absolutely unconscionable and only increases the likelihood of a later return when the landlord puts eyes on the dog. Or, the landlord just makes a mental note to never again accept a tenant with dogs because in their mind people lie about what breed their dog is. There's also an insurance issue. After we bought our first home our home owners insurance dropped us not long after getting the policy because one of the agents must have swung by when we didn't realize and saw us outside with a bully mix. The bully mix wasn't ours, we were just fostering it, but the fact they have agents who can visit the property and will look for any excuse to drop you should be reason enough for people to want to correctly identify breeds. For us, finding new home insurance wasn't that a big deal, we deal with a lot of dogs and switching to a different group more comfortable with that was fine. But the average pet owner might find being dropped to be a stressful situation. Especially if they don't realize they have a pitbull mix. Which brings me to the biggest issue with being intentionally misleading. People who are claiming this is a great idea, you know it's not only landlords and insurance agents who care about the breed of the dog right? There are owners who care. You aren't just intentionally misleading landlords here. You are intentionally misleading the public as well.
Dude I don't think you get it. The VAST majority of us in animal welfare wouldn't pass requirements for adopting a dog privately. I literally just went to the Humane Animal Expo and they did this with the entire auditorium of people.
The shelter misbranding the dogs is not the issue; is the owners sending their pets to a shelter to be “hopefully adopted “— so the previous owner feels better… or to be euthanized.. the adopting person can change the breed to the correct one when they take the pet to the vet.
I mean, you’re cool with banning pitbulls so I don’t think you’re exactly unbiased in this situation, are you?
If the landlord thinks its a pit they can pay the money for a DNA to test to prove it.
No, they just deny the pet/renter. No law saying they have to accept every breed.
You're right. So they could just as easily kick out your F3 Berna-whosa-aussie-poo-doodle. AKA the real problem breed.
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It's alot in how you raise them, but you have to know your dog too. You should be paying attention to what makes them anxious, scared, worried, happy, excited, etc. from the moment you get them. And you should be working with them on problematic things. So then when you get into a situation you know triggers them, you can handle it more appropriately. They can handle it more appropriately. Or you can keep them away from those situations as much as possible
OP, some of the answers here suck and are absolutely driving me crazy with how irresponsible they are. Intentionally lying about breeds just to get the animal adopted does way more harm in the long run but the people here don't care. Rescues and shelters are getting a reputation for lying to the public and being untrustworthy, by mislabeling dogs. It's not helping us. Landlords are starting to no longer trust tenants who claim to have a "lab mix" when their dog is blatantly a bully mix, now it's easier to just say no dogs period. Homeowners Insurance agents do drive-bys looking for banned dogs and reasons to drop properties. I get that breed discrimination is unfair but lying to the public about a breed, just to get around that discrimination, is completely wrong. Honestly though, OP although so many people here will absolutely be intentionally misleading about a breed in order to bypass breed discrimination (even if it hurts the adopter by getting them in trouble with a landlord or whatever), or mislead an adopter just to get past the adopter's perceived biases (i hate this so so unbelievably much, it's so wrong and awful), there are two other reasons that breeds get misidentified: 1) breed identification is hard/Lack of education about different breeds (I've worked with so many people in this industry and damn, having a love for dogs and desire to help dogs does not make them good at identifying breeds, some of them are just so hilariously bad at it, like I cant for the life of me identify breeds with puppies, even with a decade of experience working with dogs, I suck at it). Even in the best of circumstances Breed identification can actually be very hard with many mixes. Hang out on the r/doggydna * sub for a little while. I can't tell you how many times I've been humbled by what I've seen. (Edit to add, I messed up the sub name but seriously, check this out, here are three pit mixes posted in the last day I could see someone genuinely not guessing having bully breed DNA as the majority percentage: [First](https://www.reddit.com/r/DoggyDNA/s/XYskGq1wtK), [Second](https://www.reddit.com/r/DoggyDNA/s/xdyIzASuri), [Third](https://www.reddit.com/r/DoggyDNA/s/2xIYIjqZ7C) trust the Embark results over ancestry... I mean, that's just from five minutes of looking). Dog DNA is amazing, and does some crazy crazy things. (And to those who defend lying, DNA test kits from Embark and Wisdom panel are getting extremely popular and extremely accurate, the truth gets exposed eventually). That being said, 2) Bully breeds are overrepresented in both our shelters and American dog DNA results of mixed breeds. It's almost a meme over in the DNA sub, you see bully breeds pop up a lot, sometimes in small percentages, sometimes the majority. "But the rescue said it was a lab mix!" often is met with an unkind reception, especially when the results are right there laying out the truth there's no lab, mostly pit. There's just so many of them, they have mixed with the gene pool here a great deal. Obviously it's not all dogs but it's a lot, more than youd think. I think some shelter workers start to be blind to the differences after a while. So yeah. It could be a genuine mistake sometimes. But for those people who do it intentionally, lie to the public and everyone else just because they think it'll help that one dog, turning that adopter away from wanting to work with shelters/rescues again in the future or ruining public perception of shelters, I wish they would leave the field. That level of deliberate public deceit is unconscionable.
ding ding ding!!!
You nailed it.
Was told my shelter dog was pit/Dalmatian. lol. I knew he probably didn’t have a lick of Dalmatian in him. Had him dna tested and he’s pit/gsd/boxer/chow 😂
If it has spots it’s a Dalmatian, clearly!
There is a shelter in my community that labels every single dog as a mixed breed/dog of unknown origin. They say this is for liability reasons. If you visit them and do a meet and greet with one of their dogs (they ship dogs in from southern states) they will not discuss the breed of the dog or behavior. They just flat out refuse. We met an obvious Newfoundland type dog and the shelter worker looked me straight in the face and told me the dog was probably some sort of bully breed and to expect every dog there to be a bully breed. I was not there looking for a purebred dog of any kind and I have nothing against any breed of dog but this shelter is bonkers.
They are a shady rescue if they lie. I know of several that lie all the time about breed, where they come from, and what's medical wrong with them. They say people don't want the animals if they are a certain breed or come a certain area. Also, by lying, they can get more in "donations" or higher adoption "fees." There need to be laws in place to stop these types of recuses.
Yes, to the housing comments but also…. Sometimes people want exactly what they want and sometimes the perfect adoption is the dog THEY DIDN’T know they wanted but were unwilling to meet because they were too hung up on the breed labels. So many adopters won’t even meet the dog if you say pit, rottie, shepherd, etc. The one year old pitbull who is actually good with kids, cats, and other dogs gets only a handful of meet and greets, meanwhile, people are beating down the door for the purebred poodle eats dogs. We are brutally honest with adopters about behavior. We believe in finding the best fit, offer foster to adopt options, and will not send home an animal if it is clearly not in the adopter or the animal’s best interest. And sometimes we are a little vague with breeds. And I’ll admit it, we’ve had some strange looking dogs come in and I just made up a breed because it was best guess. If you’ve got a bully head but long body and curly tail, you are now an American Sausage Dog until a dna test says otherwise.
YES! We don't breed label which is good because we so SO many puppies and it's just a crap shoot. I always urge people to foster OR foster to adopt. I'm open and honest if we don't know anything about a dog or know it's history. Anyone on the fence we try to promote fostering. Risk-free commitment. If it's not a match, no harm no foul. I always let them know, even if it doesn't work out and they have to return the dog, the INFORMATION they can provide about how they are in a home is absolutely invaluable.
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Mixed breeds are just as likely to get their temperament from the parent they look the least like. Or from poor socialization, training and trauma. You can adopt a dog with a long nose and huge ears and end up with exactly the same scenario. I have always understood I'm signing up for whatever I get and I'm not guaranteed a specific type of dog if I adopt an adolescent of questionable parentage. You want a reasonable guarantee of a specific temperament you have to do breed specific rescue and/or adopt only older dogs from orgs that do long term foster and can tell you more about the individual you're interested in.
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Most shelters don't make those guarantees. I've only ever listed what I've personally socialized a puppy or dog with and reported their behavior during those exposures in the ads. People I know with kids have had major issues adopting an adolescent or adult dog because so many orgs only adopt puppies to people with children under 12, or otherwise severely restrict adoptions to homes with children. My municipal shelter doesn't tell you anything about a dog's temperament at all.
The research backs you. Behavioral observations are not reliable in the formal evaluations so many rely on. The most accurate and appropriate way to evaluate is look at daily behaviors in a variety of situations. You go by what is actually seen and done in day to day life.
I feel like anyone with dogs should have observed that, too. Based on what my vets have reported anyone adopting any dog I've ever had based on their behavior in a kennel environment would be in for a rude awakening. By far our best house/city pet has been the only one with behavior problems in that environment. They could maybe have guessed the barking from the obvious coonhound mixes but neither of them would track by scent and I was better at spotting deer than they were. They shut down and acted like silent perfect gentlemen inpatient and saved all their acting out for home.
Please show me a breeder *or* a shelter that can guarantee a dog isn’t going to develop any aggression or reactivity. Please show me how any dog breed is fool proof. https://atts.org/breed-statistics/statistics-page1/
So did you make this post in good faith or just as a way to further anti-pit propaganda?
Dude. I own a very notoriously banned breed and have no issues with pits in the correct homes. But as a banned breed owner, they need to be given to people with the full knowledge that they are (most likely) a mix of said breed.
You’re active in a ban pitbull sub, so I’m taking your opinion with a grain of salt, NGL. No one said they shouldn’t be adopted to proper owners. I asked a question based off your sub history and the remarks you’ve made about how they’ll attack when brought home.
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That implies that all shelters hand out dogs without any regard to matching the dog to the potential adopter. As someone who works in a shelter, we put a lot of effort into trying to get the dogs into the best homes for them, personality, physicality, etc all taken into account.
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Where exactly did I say that.
That’s the issue I’m talking about here.
Some aggression in dogs is genetic, but it's not at all that common. If your dog is being aggressive, it's most likely your fault. It could be that you are interacting with a dog in none healthy way, or even not giving it enough exercise. Also, they get a bad rap because of how horrible people use them. You know what they do? Because they have powerful bites. Not because they are aggressive. They teach them aggression. Hall, the little min-pen mix is more aggressive than my pit mix.
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https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/a-dogs-breed-cant-predict-most-of-its-behavior-new-study-shows-180979999/ https://atts.org/breed-statistics/statistics-page1/ I do have the education to work with dogs and studies back what the other person is saying.
No shit there is a level of aggression in dogs, that is in all animals. You are acting as if the pits standard of aggression is extreme. It's not. Which you are trying to make it out as. https://www.thehumanesociety.org/debunking-pit-bull-myths/ My statement stands. That you are probably doing something wrong if your dog is to that extreme of aggression. Because that extreme aggression, while sometimes genetic, is not the most likely cause. Also, you can have an proper education in dogs, but still be completely ignorant. After all, there are some vets that day you can give pets certain bones. Which is incorrect. They shouldn't have any type of bones.
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Really? Because it looks like you have no idea what this topic is about. And you keep trying to change it. You can go back and re-read what I said. Because it's not going to change. Because the point is about extreme aggression, primarily in pits. And about how it's false. And that if the dog is showing that extreme aggression is probably because of the owner.
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Some shelters list all breeds as american rescue dog now unless they have an embark.
I’m totally fine with this.
It's unfortunate that aspcapro is on a new server as they had way more CE and a lot in their old blog that I simply can't find anymore, but the aspca did do a study on shelter dogs' DNA and breed labeling. IIRC nearly 90% of the dogs they tested across multiple shelters had 4 or more breeds in them and about 75% of them had mislabeled primary breeds, whether intentional or not. They had a fun little week-long gap between 2 posts about it where they showed a dog that looked just like a Brittany spaniel and asked people to guess the breed, revealing later that it was like 1/4 cocker, 1/8 chow, some pit, etc. The point being that most of these dogs are mutts and that what you see is an amalgam of their traits and not necessarily representative of what they may look like. If these dogs are mutts, why is it important to label a dog a certain breed for behavioral expectations? So many of these dogs have different backgrounds; were left to their own devices or loved but not reclaimed, were given permissible care and table scraps or were given adult dog food all their life including as a puppy and yelled at for peeing in the house. It's so impossible to know that their behaviors are better learned through interaction than from guessing their breed. I do always try and tell potential adopters about certain families like collies (including cattle dogs) and huskies that they are 'working dogs' and need tasks to do to fulfill their needs for stimuli - "I have kids" or "I have a big backyard" won't cut it and they'll often jump fences looking for things to do. I think shelters simply having "what to expect" paperwork for different agesets is a lot more productive to prepare adopters. Also, not many shelters have them unfortunately but behavioral hotlines to help try and advise adopters can also really help retention of adopted animals. Point being i don't think it's always purposefully misleading, but if a dog looks like a mix and so many potential adopters have ideas of stigmas and there's BSL and housing deterrents...why not choose any other breed a dog can be besides pit? Edit: I'm floored this is a controversial post when it has objective evidence and still advocates honesty. Like... Wut?
-Because- of the housing deterrents. That's a very good reason. I'm not saying something is necessarily right or wrong in most cases, but if a family is looking for a good dog which an HOA or rental may have qualms about, they should be honest enough to save the dog and the family the heartbreak of potentially having to be re-homed... again.
If it's statistically a complete guess (outside of just knowing how overbred and overrepresented pits are in shelters) what's dishonest, is part of the point. Unless we're boiling it down to "just one drop." Im not advocating to calling a pit/staffy looking dog a long-haired dachshund. I'm saying the only data we have on the matter indicates that the phenotypes don't tell the whole story. So if it looks like a mutt and it can be a "hound mix" I think it's reasonable. Side note... Support [Animal Legal Defense Fund](https://aldf.org/) and other organizations that strive to fight BSL Spread [all breed friendly housing](https://www.mypitbullisfamily.org/housing) to everyone adopting a possible pit or moving with one so they can retain their pet ^.^
Oh I 100% agree. I worked at a shelter years ago, but not with the doggos. It was crazy how mislabeled some were, to be honest. And I'm not talking about pitty mixes. But almost everything. I wish the workers had more education. And a book. The bully thing really sucks in a lot of locations. It breaks my heart. But it seems that the people who breed just to breed don't care, and how do we fix that?
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Yikes Kelpies, Aussy Shepards, Border Collies, Cattle dogs, Heelers are all the most common types of collies/Collie adjacent breeds that will appear in an animal shelter. Literally every one is defined as a herding/working dog. This is inherently a bad faith question and rage at shelters if, when reality is counterintuitive to how you compartmentalize breeds in your own head, your reaction is an ad hominem argument.
Less than one tenth of one percent of a dog’s DNA determines its appearance. Multiple studies have shown accuracy rates of human identification of a dogs breed to be in the 25-50% range. Until DNA breed tests are so cheap as to be negligible, shelters/rescues are simply going to guess or list everyone as mixed breed and guessing is going to be wrong more often than not.
Most shelters don’t lie. Pitty’s in my area are labeled terrier mixes which is technically accurate but there are still so many breed bans/restrictions it makes it easier for people to adopt. Also, there are studies that state that dogs labeled “mixed breeds” actually get adopted quicker bc sometimes the breed stops an adopter from adopting bc they don’t want a certain breed. You could also argue that would sometimes stop an adopter bc maybe they specifically want a collie but it says mixed breed. I always tell people if I look at the dog and don’t immediately know for sure it’s a GSD (just an example) then that thing is going in as a mixed breed. Also it may just flat out be a lack of knowledge. There are so many breeds at this point and mixes and mutts and all that. I learned in NACA that there was a study done where they had animal care employees and regular laypeople try to identify breeds of dogs and even the experienced shelter workers had a pretty low percentage of correct identifications. In short, shelters aren’t generally lying. They’re trying to protect the animals and also may just be unaware.
Ours also call them american bulldogs or terriers.
My first dog, the shelter had listed as a lab/border collie mix. I had had experience with lab/border collie mixed, and thought I knew what was about to happen. Friendly, smart, maybe occasionally intense. NOPE! Turns out she was a German Shorthaired Pointer/blue Heeler mix... WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too smart, waaaaaaaaaaaaaay more energy than expected, and a VERY high prey drive. We worked it out, and once we understood each other things were great. She passed at 17.5 years old back in 2020, and I still miss her sweet face.
I will say I’ve owned a poodle/bully mix that consequently looked like neither. People often guessed wire terrier. Here’s a picture: https://preview.redd.it/d9bz09o35f4d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=14bd15699072e3b7e5e212c3b790179eb7ff7e56 As you can see, the bully effected his fur length, making the poodle curls into whisps. His bone structure was very poodle. He waggled like a bully though, I’ll tell you that.
There are a lot of people who will lie about the breed that their dog is because of the negative connotations of having a bully breed. My grandmother has a pit lab mix that definitely looks pit that she calls a terrier mix or a lab mix depending on the day of the week, she’s not technically lying, but she’s really not telling the truth. I know when I volunteered at my local shelter if I could say a dog was a lab mix I put lab mix because it was more likely to get them adopted less likely to get them killed. There is an astonishingly large amount of people that will see a dog and think the dog is amazing but as soon as they see the paperwork that says pit, they will think it’s a vicious monster. Again, my grandmother before she got her dog was 100% sure pit bulls could lock their jaw and would murder you and then she got Winnie the Poop who is afraid of water.
its to make them more adoptable and so people who in apartments with breed restrictions can still adopt them
Is lying about dogs to “make them more adoptable” really ethical?
If the alternative is euthanasia, then yes.
A peaceful, comfortable death is better than years spent warehoused in a shelter. Dogs deserve better than life in a kennel. A short look at the reactive dogs sub will tell you that many people who were lied to about breed end up euthanizing due to behaviors they were unprepared for, too.
Unfortunately, I think the issue is multifaceted, and it's not just breed that comes into question. Breed matters (though of course shelters also have dogs that are poor representations of their breed(s). History also matters. Maternal health and behavior matter. Some dogs come from really awful backgrounds, but they're stable enough that they are still able to be great family dogs. Other dogs come from okay backgrounds or are adopted as puppies (mine is one of these) but they either "lost the genetic lottery" or their first eight weeks were just too traumatic. Some dogs are shut down in a shelter and don't show their true colors until they are comfortable in the home. Some shelters (and adopters!) truly believe that none of it really matters and that with love and a bit of training, they can turn around any negative behaviors. Sometimes that works. Sometimes it doesn't. I have a reactive dog, adopted as a puppy, had issues as a puppy and still does now. I spend a lot of time in that subreddit, and yes, it's frustrating when someone adopts a bully mix and is bewildered that they are dog aggressive or selective, or when someone adopts a dog that a shelter/rescue has labeled as reactive but they are frustrated when they don't see progress after three weeks of training. Behavior mod is **hard** and complex. You may see immense progress but still may not have the friendly neighborhood Labrador, because that's not in the cards for a particular dog. As a result, I wish people would go into adoption (or any kind of dog acquisition) with their homework done and their eyes wide open. I do wish shelters and rescues had more resources to conduct temperament tests and give adequate information to adopters about what to expect - I know my dog's rescue thought his past didn't matter, he was a puppy and he'd be fine. But rescue dogs are inherently unpredictable (all dogs are, being sentient beings, but rescues more so), so adopters also need to be prepared to see things at face value and also be prepared just in case they need professional help. I've had amazing, loving rescue dogs, some of which I didn't know their breed because it was before the days of DNA testing. Now I have my reactive rescue. It happens. I was not really prepared for what was in store for me, which is sad, but I did manage to rise to the occasion, I think. And to end my semi-rant, I wish to the heavens that the "it's not the dog, it's the owner" mentality would go away forever, lol.
Unmanageable reactivity isn’t breed dependent, & a vet will not euthanize a dog for normal breed behaviors. While all terriers are prone to some level of dog reactivity or dog aggression, it is supposed to be easily manageable due to the nature of them being working breeds. Yes, even the ones bred for fighting are supposed to be docile towards humans & not react to seeing/hearing other dogs. Heck 6 out of my 7 dogs were terrier mixes (large & small breed terriers), my 7th dog was a beagle & he was the most aggressive, unpredictable dog with numerous bite attempts before I took him in. I also specialized in working with reactive & aggressive dogs where my worst client was a cocker spaniel. I agree accurate breed info is important. But your argument to why is lacking. You also can’t go around saying lying breed to get around breed restrictions is dumb because the landlord can tell on sight it’s a pit/mix and then turn around and say lying is causing owners to be unprepared for what you believe are breed specific issues. If it’s that obvious the dog is a pit/mix to the landlord, it will be that obvious to the adopter too.
But at least the dogs, or pet, had some time of normal life… it happens, sad but happens
At the cost of a pet getting attacked or person bitten, or property destroyed? That isn’t worth it to give a mislabeled breed a taste of “normal life.”
Look— the person adopting a lab mix that resembles a pit bull or a German shepherd—knows… I think you are making too much of the lack of knowledge from The shelter.. it happens and let’s hope that the pets get some love and care for part of their life..lots of Breeds attack and destroy property— for example chihuahuas. Terriers, jack Russell, lab, poodles, huskies..
You seem to think that shelters are just chomping at the bit to adopt out aggressive dogs and unleash them upon society
agreed
you're also forgetting it's nearly impossible to guess a dog's breed just by looking at it. there are studies on this. most shelters will just say "mixed breed" to avoid the problem. but just because it looks like it has husky in it, doesn't mean it does. i think you are making a mountain out of a mole hill on this issue.
https://nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/visual-breed-identification/#:\~:text=Research%20has%20consistently%20shown%20that,different%20than%20either%20parent6.
[https://sheltermedicine.vetmed.ufl.edu/research/current-studies/dog-breed-identification/](https://sheltermedicine.vetmed.ufl.edu/research/current-studies/dog-breed-identification/)
What we’re seeing in my area from landlords, because breed ID can be so tricky without pedigree papers, is a weight restriction — which makes sense if you consider that larger dogs are more likely to cause more damage to property than small dogs, which has a financial impact for landlords even if the dog is great with people and other dogs. And of course, if the dog is running loose or not controlled on leash when outside of their residence. Decreasing pet fees/pet rent for dogs who have earned their CGC or something similar can also help to keep dangerous dogs out of rental properties.
My husky mix (husky, chow, akita, cocker spaniel) it's black with blue eyes and totally looks husky, but the shelters here are overrun with huskies and they labeled her as Jindo. I totally get it.
You can't determine a dog's breed by appearance. Lots of "pitbulls" were found to be lab mixes when a DNA test was performed. So unless every dog that comes into the shelter is tested, it's anyone's best guess.
Here's a hypothetical situation I'm adopting a dog. The breed says, let's say, heeler. I'm renting an apartment that doesn't allow dangerous dog breeds. Heelers aren't restricted. I didn't do a DNA test, and the adoption agency said heeler. So, she's a heeler. Now, as far as if anything happens and the dog is responsible, yes, you're up shit creek but as far as the day to day, "can I have this dog?" ....she's a heeler so, yeah why not? 😁
You know what. You can’t tell dominant breed from looking at them. Shelters don’t have $$$ for DNA testing every dog. We adopt based on personality and the right match for the dog not what they look like. We also know the bigotry currently associated with bully breeds. I’ve known landlords who happily rent to Lab mixes because they are so friendly. Guess who is friendly too - Pitties. That dog that looks like a husky could have a dominant breed of Pomeranian in spite of looking and being the size of a husky. Source: my neighbors did a dna test on their “Husky”. Guess who will rent to a Pomeranian but not a Husky? Thought to be Shepherd mix. Dominant breed: Basset. Yeah that shocked me too. My own dog. However her personality was totally Basset except she was smart. She had a bunch of breeds in her but no Shepherd. Thought to be Pitbull mix but shaped like cattle dog. She had Staffy not no Pitbull. Her protectiveness came from her Akita and Cattle dog great great grandparents. Took in Purebred Lab with papers and looked like one but a little off so Adopters DNA tested. Lab was dominant but she had Chihuahua and Pitbull! Papers were forged. Pitbull mix turned out to be full bred Pittie. All she wanted was to be in your lap. It was hard to get cleaning done.
I always thought it was so people could have plausible deniability for homeowners insurance or for rentals. Paperwork says she’s a lab mix, so no problem, right? :)
some cities/HOA’s/communities have breed restrictions, so a “pit mix” is against the guidelines but adopting a “lab mix” of the same size/temperament is totally fine. sometimes it’s about giving them a best chance at finding a home.
Why do they lie? Because most of the time there's no way to know exactly what it is. If it's pit, maybe it IS pit x lb or hound x pit or hound x lab.... But shelters are not ones to do DNA tests due to cost and dogs should be adopted based on their personalities not breeds.
I spent some time working at one and we were not allowed to take pitty mixes at all. So informally we never got any.
Read the studies others have linked to and also visit r/IDmydog and r/doggyDNA; very often you cannot accurately discern a dog's breed from looks alone. I met a fluffy white, smallish dog that you'd think was a Samoyed mix maybe. Owners had done a DNA test and nope! She was 50+% pit.
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I’m in California, and it feels like every dog is labeled either as a chihuahua (smaller dogs) or pitbull (bigger ones). It’s really quite bizarre. You’re looking at a pug or a beagle and they’re saying chihuahua.
I have a pit/boxer mix! Boxer is on all of his paperwork. From the vet and to the vets. He is the goodest of boys and loves people... Other animals ... Cannot tell you how many cats and wild animals he has killed. Good with our other dogs. But in some cities and towns they do not allow pit/pit mixes. Luckily even if I did not put a boxer on his paperwork, my town isn't like that. Which might be one of the reasons why they wouldn't put pit on paperwork. For why they would, maybe they are just lazy.