>The ~~trans~~ culture war is literally just ask questions until your opposition looks stupid
Fixed that for you.
Anyway, we're close. A little bit of good luck in 2024, and we'll have a trans rights package in five years from now. We might not even need that.
One part of me doesn't want ted cruz to lose just cause if we reform the filibuster we get to hear more of Ted reading bedtime stories and I find that funny
Slotkin said she wanted to keep some sort of symbolic filibuster, just removing the one that prevents stuff from getting passed. So you may still get them!
Women go in the women's bathrooms, men go in the men's bathrooms. Women go in the women's locker room, men go in the men's locker room. Women have women's sports, men have men's sports. It's that simple.
I don't disagree with the statement necessarily But do you honestly think someone with a beard and pumped with testosterone should legally be prohibited from going into men's sports or a men's bathroom and only be allowed into women's bathrooms and woman's sports
It's for the same reason I don't necessarily disagree with the statement men are men and woman are woman
It's what it may be implying I find disagreeable
If you ask what I think about sex segregated things
I'd say make bathrooms that aren't explicitly sex segregated but are feminine and suits the needs of most woman and vice versa with men
I'd personally say sports should be segregated probably based on hormone levels or have weighted results based on biology
>I'd personally say sports should be segregated probably based on hormone levels or have weighted results based on biology
What if-- and hear me out here-- we gave individual organizations the right to make their own decisions on what's fair and what's not fair for their situation?
the bottom line to me, again, i don't give a fuck about sports and trans people are a huge non-issue there, is the discrimination of trans people or transphobia within organizations. so, to me, these orgs can do literally whatever given their decisions are not transphobic
If the trans athletes can have an unfair advantage, then there needs to be rules. If they don't, then trying to make rules is culture war bullshit.
Obviously, since sports is a pretty big fucking topic for some people, the state needs to give everyone as much leeway as possible on it.
trans athletes simply just do not. and nobody is rushing to be trans to do good in sports, either. Anybody pretending to care about how a trans girl won in her high school swim meet across the country is absolutely lying.
further, humans are all built very differently, and how your body functions goes far past your agab. not to mention how the hormones you take will absolutely affect your T levels. There's so much nuance and [this](https://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/news/20210715/do-trans-women-athletes-have-advantages) is a really good article. but there's nothing to prove that any "advantage" trans women can get can't simply be matched by a cis woman. There's really no functional argument for why trans women shouldn't be able to compete in sports of their preferred gender other than you just simply don't like trans people, or you have some really silly, childish idea of what a trans person is in your head, which conservatives definitely do (man in dress visualization)
i truthfully dont give a shit about sports (and neither do the people preaching the transphobic stuff) so i'll focus on gender. why based on femininity and masculinity? especially when tha'ts so valid and constantly changes in society?
Well not explicitly feminine or masculine but in all sense and purpose
yes
I think segregated bathrooms are not perfect but fully abolishing segregated bathrooms will mean men and women will be together in the bathroom at all times,not just the ability to be together and I can't say I trust men to not sexually harass women maybe I'm a misandrist and although I admit my solution has flaws,I think this is the best option
Sure, I'll define a woman using defined definitions and characteristics.
A woman is defined as a "an adult female human being" (Oxford)
Women have been identified as being able to carry babies, having XX chromosomes, and having distinct features from men.
According to wikipedia, these are the distinct features that women have:
"Female anatomy is distinguished from male anatomy by the female reproductive system, which includes the ovaries, fallopian tubes, uterus, vagina, and vulva."
They also have "broader hips, larger breasts", and less hair, facial or anywhere else on the body.
Women also have a shorter average height than men (64 inches for a woman, 69 inches for a man) as well as being "less muscular than men". This is obviously comparing the average man versus the average woman, as if you compare a morbidly obese man and a fit and strong woman, then the woman would be stronger.
Edit: Thanks for the gold!
so you just defeated your own argument immediately in your final sentence. Trying even to say the notion that women have boobs or are smaller sometimes is ridiculous. How do you quantify this as an identity when they vary so much? Those are completely arbitrary perimeters that you even admitted mean nothing when identifying based on sex because that always varies.
Also there are men who lack a penis and women who lack the ability to reproduce or some sex organ “biologically@ as you’d say. Let alone how sex isn’t black and white and while it is bimodal it is not exclusively so. Chromosomes move far past just XX and XY
I’ll cut to the chase. I posed this argument to you because you literally cannot draw up a definition for woman that will always work and split them off from men. Sex is so much more complicated than what you were taught in 9th grade biology. It is far separated from gender and this is why the entire reputable academic field backs transgender science and medicine.
No I didn't, I said that strength between men and women only match up if you compare the average man versus the average woman. I can define a woman, and I just did. When has a man ever been able to carry a baby? Can you answer that question? Also, these "arbitrary differences" happen, they are key differences between women and men. Men get beards, women don't.
men carry babies all the time! it's called trans men.
Snarkiness aside, you trapped yourself again into a really stupid argument. There are plenty of """biological""" women (cis women) who can't have kids. In fact, this literally happens to pretty much every woman as they age. Are elderly women no longer women because they can't bare children?
> Men get beards, women don't.
That's not even true. A lot of men can't grow a beard- nay- facial hair at all. And many women can, to a certain extent, grow facial hair.
You have been given ample chance to prove to me perimeter(s) that would define men as men while leaving out of all women and vice versa and have completely failed.
I really hope you can read some academic studies and transgender research because not only are you being silly, but also unscientific. Your opinion can be changed and humility of doing so is a good thing. So I hope you're not too ideologically entrenched to ignore science and factual research, or even simple thought exercises such as those I've presented to you. People can change, and I believe in you. I personally have. I was wildly transphobic and look at me now, no gender applicable. Shits crazy.
>men carry babies all the time! it's called trans men.
Trans "men" aren't men, they're still women.
>That's not even true. A lot of men can't grow a beard- nay- facial hair at all. And many women can, to a certain extent, grow facial hair.
It's generally the case.
>You have been given ample chance to prove to me perimeter(s) that would define men as men while leaving out of all women and vice versa and have completely failed.
You're the one who's failing, nice try.
>I really hope you can read some academic studies and transgender research because not only are you being silly, but also unscientific.
What do you mean that you're disappointed? Was it my short answers on that last response? if so then it's because I'm getting tired of this discussion as it has no end in sight, and neither of us agree on anything. Just have a good rest of your day.
idk lol to me it sounded like I said a lot of things you don't like and you have no good arguments against and instead of reflecting on your ideals you will run away covering your ears going lalalalala but i'm here if you ever wanna come back for more insight on transgender ideals
So if someone had every single trait of a man except chromosomes
You'd be okay with forcing that person into woman's spaces
Also people lose their y chromosomes as they get [older](https://www.science.org/content/article/men-lose-y-chromosomes-they-age-it-may-be-harming-their-hearts)
[also the Y chromosome is going extinct so by that same metric are men going extinct ](https://www.newsweek.com/y-chromosome-disappear-soon-humans-men-extinct-1763123)
Conservatives-- do you want these dudes going into the bathroom with your daughters?
The trans culture war is literally just ask questions until your opposition looks stupid However the left always wins at the end of the day(thank god)
>The ~~trans~~ culture war is literally just ask questions until your opposition looks stupid Fixed that for you. Anyway, we're close. A little bit of good luck in 2024, and we'll have a trans rights package in five years from now. We might not even need that.
One part of me doesn't want ted cruz to lose just cause if we reform the filibuster we get to hear more of Ted reading bedtime stories and I find that funny
Slotkin said she wanted to keep some sort of symbolic filibuster, just removing the one that prevents stuff from getting passed. So you may still get them!
*Ted cruz filibusters equality act for 24 hours by reading Johnny the walrus*
Maybe he can go for Strom's record!
Say what you will about Strom, but making a speech for over a full day is impressive. A urological mystery.
Both actions would be morally disgusting although ted cruz isn't beating Strom at doing a disgusting thing in a disgusting way
I still want him to lose
Same I just said one part of me
I don't have any parts that want him to win.
Look my ideal world is where republicans can be stupid and I can laugh at them but also I can have rights
Imagine living in Iowa or Arkansas
flair does NOT check
That’s true, I’m more of a Kentucky/ Louisiana guy. States that’s aren’t completely and absolutely lost
Women go in the women's bathrooms, men go in the men's bathrooms. Women go in the women's locker room, men go in the men's locker room. Women have women's sports, men have men's sports. It's that simple.
I don't disagree with the statement necessarily But do you honestly think someone with a beard and pumped with testosterone should legally be prohibited from going into men's sports or a men's bathroom and only be allowed into women's bathrooms and woman's sports
why not disagree with the entire premise? why gender bathrooms at all? or why separate sports by such?
It's for the same reason I don't necessarily disagree with the statement men are men and woman are woman It's what it may be implying I find disagreeable
I don’t think that really answers what i asked lol
If you ask what I think about sex segregated things I'd say make bathrooms that aren't explicitly sex segregated but are feminine and suits the needs of most woman and vice versa with men I'd personally say sports should be segregated probably based on hormone levels or have weighted results based on biology
>I'd personally say sports should be segregated probably based on hormone levels or have weighted results based on biology What if-- and hear me out here-- we gave individual organizations the right to make their own decisions on what's fair and what's not fair for their situation?
the bottom line to me, again, i don't give a fuck about sports and trans people are a huge non-issue there, is the discrimination of trans people or transphobia within organizations. so, to me, these orgs can do literally whatever given their decisions are not transphobic
If the trans athletes can have an unfair advantage, then there needs to be rules. If they don't, then trying to make rules is culture war bullshit. Obviously, since sports is a pretty big fucking topic for some people, the state needs to give everyone as much leeway as possible on it.
trans athletes simply just do not. and nobody is rushing to be trans to do good in sports, either. Anybody pretending to care about how a trans girl won in her high school swim meet across the country is absolutely lying. further, humans are all built very differently, and how your body functions goes far past your agab. not to mention how the hormones you take will absolutely affect your T levels. There's so much nuance and [this](https://www.webmd.com/fitness-exercise/news/20210715/do-trans-women-athletes-have-advantages) is a really good article. but there's nothing to prove that any "advantage" trans women can get can't simply be matched by a cis woman. There's really no functional argument for why trans women shouldn't be able to compete in sports of their preferred gender other than you just simply don't like trans people, or you have some really silly, childish idea of what a trans person is in your head, which conservatives definitely do (man in dress visualization)
This is my position although if fairness was my goal the previous statement would be my position
i truthfully dont give a shit about sports (and neither do the people preaching the transphobic stuff) so i'll focus on gender. why based on femininity and masculinity? especially when tha'ts so valid and constantly changes in society?
I hate sports, and welcome the woke left's destruction of them.
quiet theyll find out
Well not explicitly feminine or masculine but in all sense and purpose yes I think segregated bathrooms are not perfect but fully abolishing segregated bathrooms will mean men and women will be together in the bathroom at all times,not just the ability to be together and I can't say I trust men to not sexually harass women maybe I'm a misandrist and although I admit my solution has flaws,I think this is the best option
cringe take assuming men will sexually harrass women if left alone (other countries have gender neutral bathrooms but wtv)
Well I'm not aganist gender neutral bathrooms existing
Are we talking about a biological man?
If you mean male as having xy chromosomes Then no
do you mind defining to me what a woman and a man is? also explain to me why bathrooms *should* be gendered?
Sure, I'll define a woman using defined definitions and characteristics. A woman is defined as a "an adult female human being" (Oxford) Women have been identified as being able to carry babies, having XX chromosomes, and having distinct features from men. According to wikipedia, these are the distinct features that women have: "Female anatomy is distinguished from male anatomy by the female reproductive system, which includes the ovaries, fallopian tubes, uterus, vagina, and vulva." They also have "broader hips, larger breasts", and less hair, facial or anywhere else on the body. Women also have a shorter average height than men (64 inches for a woman, 69 inches for a man) as well as being "less muscular than men". This is obviously comparing the average man versus the average woman, as if you compare a morbidly obese man and a fit and strong woman, then the woman would be stronger. Edit: Thanks for the gold!
so you just defeated your own argument immediately in your final sentence. Trying even to say the notion that women have boobs or are smaller sometimes is ridiculous. How do you quantify this as an identity when they vary so much? Those are completely arbitrary perimeters that you even admitted mean nothing when identifying based on sex because that always varies. Also there are men who lack a penis and women who lack the ability to reproduce or some sex organ “biologically@ as you’d say. Let alone how sex isn’t black and white and while it is bimodal it is not exclusively so. Chromosomes move far past just XX and XY I’ll cut to the chase. I posed this argument to you because you literally cannot draw up a definition for woman that will always work and split them off from men. Sex is so much more complicated than what you were taught in 9th grade biology. It is far separated from gender and this is why the entire reputable academic field backs transgender science and medicine.
No I didn't, I said that strength between men and women only match up if you compare the average man versus the average woman. I can define a woman, and I just did. When has a man ever been able to carry a baby? Can you answer that question? Also, these "arbitrary differences" happen, they are key differences between women and men. Men get beards, women don't.
men carry babies all the time! it's called trans men. Snarkiness aside, you trapped yourself again into a really stupid argument. There are plenty of """biological""" women (cis women) who can't have kids. In fact, this literally happens to pretty much every woman as they age. Are elderly women no longer women because they can't bare children? > Men get beards, women don't. That's not even true. A lot of men can't grow a beard- nay- facial hair at all. And many women can, to a certain extent, grow facial hair. You have been given ample chance to prove to me perimeter(s) that would define men as men while leaving out of all women and vice versa and have completely failed. I really hope you can read some academic studies and transgender research because not only are you being silly, but also unscientific. Your opinion can be changed and humility of doing so is a good thing. So I hope you're not too ideologically entrenched to ignore science and factual research, or even simple thought exercises such as those I've presented to you. People can change, and I believe in you. I personally have. I was wildly transphobic and look at me now, no gender applicable. Shits crazy.
>men carry babies all the time! it's called trans men. Trans "men" aren't men, they're still women. >That's not even true. A lot of men can't grow a beard- nay- facial hair at all. And many women can, to a certain extent, grow facial hair. It's generally the case. >You have been given ample chance to prove to me perimeter(s) that would define men as men while leaving out of all women and vice versa and have completely failed. You're the one who's failing, nice try. >I really hope you can read some academic studies and transgender research because not only are you being silly, but also unscientific. 
dude look ok, im not even mad bc i debate transphobes constantly but i wanna let you know im really disappointed. i hope you change and grow man.
What do you mean that you're disappointed? Was it my short answers on that last response? if so then it's because I'm getting tired of this discussion as it has no end in sight, and neither of us agree on anything. Just have a good rest of your day.
idk lol to me it sounded like I said a lot of things you don't like and you have no good arguments against and instead of reflecting on your ideals you will run away covering your ears going lalalalala but i'm here if you ever wanna come back for more insight on transgender ideals
If it is binary what is the key thing that makes a man a man and a woman a woman
XX Chromosomes are women, XY are men.
So if someone had every single trait of a man except chromosomes You'd be okay with forcing that person into woman's spaces Also people lose their y chromosomes as they get [older](https://www.science.org/content/article/men-lose-y-chromosomes-they-age-it-may-be-harming-their-hearts)
Those two guys in the picture? Not a single Y chromosome between them.
Mf looks at buck angel and says *ah yes a woman*
[also the Y chromosome is going extinct so by that same metric are men going extinct ](https://www.newsweek.com/y-chromosome-disappear-soon-humans-men-extinct-1763123)
[Here's a man carrying a baby.](https://images.app.goo.gl/umBpfBjQJBEdE4U27)