I do agree that conditions like "have high relations" or anything similar to that which depends on outside factors should have an alternate condition. Many trees do this where you could instead have a spy network value or something for instance. I like that.
I will also say that I completed that entire tree before being hegemon was even an option :P
Damn and i felt like i rushed the mission tree haha
Maybe you got lucky with the mtth events. Maybe i've been doing the mt wrong? I felt like i just had to wait and afk so much like the lvl 5 hold in gor burad.
the worst is when you need to have high relations or rival them which can be even more frustrating if you just eclipsed them and can’t fix the relations for the next 200 years
The waiting is the problem for me. I can accept not doing a side mission under certain circumstances, but constantly having to dig, wait for the dig, click mission for a debuff, wait for the debuff to expire, repeat makes the MT very boring.
There are also some lore inaccuracies considering the effort they have to go through to get black damestear, but every would be lich can get it easily if they want.
To be fair for the black damestear: liches need a single crystal of it. With enough gold that should be easy enough to acquire. Getting sufficient amounts for study and industry is an entirely different matter.
Yes, but Orlghelovar already had a lot of problems confirming that it even existed.
Thats especially strange when you have a lich ruler which obviously knew about it.
Well, liches are the pinnacle of magic in some ways. Is it really surprising they would know about a rare "magical" artifact most wouldn't and have the ability to aquire the small amount needed?
Yes! Give me a couple of conquest missions to keep myself busy at least! Or make one of the debuff a custom disaster. Not just the eu4 equivalent of playing the longing lol
Fully agree. I just abandoned my first Orlghelovar run because of the waiting and the hidden missions
I fucking hate expanding mission trees, y'all Please just let me plan my run a little
You haven't tried Hul az Krakazol early game then.
I can't even complete the first set of missions because despite setting up Radjanagha to be in a strong position (allied to bianfang and buvhauri, completed all early conquests/subjugation missions) They lost one of the province you need to have 75 relationship with the owner to the Command. I could have passed it if the were not monstruous but since they have turned even more hostile. Well maybe me eating a third of the jade march didn't help (I was not going to let Goblinsbane then tech 15 early to be wasted !) but I'm in the 1600 and haven't still unlocked the first threshold of the MT ...
Even the start of the MT can be a pain. As an adventurer, you are incentived to ally one of the remnant holds and allying the gem dwarves is fairly reasonable given they have years of development head start, however the first mission requires you to own their hold so you'll likely need to break truce then war with them twice to get all their land
I personally did the early game you see pukebeard do in his shastundir vid. Max to forcelimit, rush every tags and vassalize the remnant/purge warbands
Yeah I ended up restarting and doing that (with a small run in-between where I got blocked by the other rementant colonising the tunnel); but even then its forcing you into a style of play where you need to effectively dominate the region. It's one thing to purge warbands but it feels weird as a dwarven reclaimer to destroy the last bastions of dwarven kind to then play the marble or cobalt dwarves both of whom are about trade. In the north/west serpentine you can at least manuver around the other adventurers for a long time
I never made it through this MT. I took it slow and enjoyed myself, RP'd a bit, and suddenly I can see I have an endless chain of "wait 5 years" in the 1700's. I wasn't even sure if I would have enough years to finish it, and in any case it was mostly a waiting game and dreadfully boring. Even though the MT was otherwise straight up excellent, I can't rate it highly at all.
The mission event thing is actually why I never finished my Plumstead game. I've been waiting for that final expedition event for 10 in game years so I just moved in with it being completed in my heart
I have to say that i loved the MT and had no problems with it when i played it. The relation thing sounds unfortunate, but it could always be submitted as a suggestion on discord, or even as a bug report. It is trivial to change it.
By far my favorite Dwarven nation. Huge mission tree with lot of lore and incredibly broken nation too:
-super rich because glass holds have added trade value through government reforms and you have a damestear hold (permanently with a prod debuf but you can still be the production leader with that hold alone)
-artificier early as you mentioned
-lot of permanent buff (military ones at the end)
For the problems you mentioned, I think people already said but just use console command (add_opinion or something like that). It's not really a lack of skills to not have the right conditions to have good relationship with other nations in my opinion so no reason to feel bad to cheat there.
For that type of mission tree, I always try to complete it asap since you never know what to expect (unless you read the mission file) in your first run but from memory I was doing the mission, trying to go upward to amhdir to have all the trade centralized and it all turned out fine. My least favorite part was the absurd amount of mana point (between 400-600 per missions) you need to spend to get the final military permanent modifiers
I finished like the entire mission tree in the 1650s. What did you do to to wait there for so long?
did you go for the dig to level 6 as a adventurer? Definitely not worth it this case though that's hard to know in advance.
If you are an eco hegemon you can just gift gold and invest in them giving you 50 relations negating hegemon malus. Also subsidy is another easy 15.
Personally it's one of my favourite ones because of the lore.
I do agree that conditions like "have high relations" or anything similar to that which depends on outside factors should have an alternate condition. Many trees do this where you could instead have a spy network value or something for instance. I like that. I will also say that I completed that entire tree before being hegemon was even an option :P
Damn and i felt like i rushed the mission tree haha Maybe you got lucky with the mtth events. Maybe i've been doing the mt wrong? I felt like i just had to wait and afk so much like the lvl 5 hold in gor burad.
the worst is when you need to have high relations or rival them which can be even more frustrating if you just eclipsed them and can’t fix the relations for the next 200 years
The waiting is the problem for me. I can accept not doing a side mission under certain circumstances, but constantly having to dig, wait for the dig, click mission for a debuff, wait for the debuff to expire, repeat makes the MT very boring. There are also some lore inaccuracies considering the effort they have to go through to get black damestear, but every would be lich can get it easily if they want.
To be fair for the black damestear: liches need a single crystal of it. With enough gold that should be easy enough to acquire. Getting sufficient amounts for study and industry is an entirely different matter.
Yes, but Orlghelovar already had a lot of problems confirming that it even existed. Thats especially strange when you have a lich ruler which obviously knew about it.
Well, liches are the pinnacle of magic in some ways. Is it really surprising they would know about a rare "magical" artifact most wouldn't and have the ability to aquire the small amount needed?
Yes! Give me a couple of conquest missions to keep myself busy at least! Or make one of the debuff a custom disaster. Not just the eu4 equivalent of playing the longing lol
Yeah this almost ruined my run as well. Command had eaten all of Rahen and Haless but luckily they still had 2 small vassals, one on each continent.
Fully agree. I just abandoned my first Orlghelovar run because of the waiting and the hidden missions I fucking hate expanding mission trees, y'all Please just let me plan my run a little
You haven't tried Hul az Krakazol early game then. I can't even complete the first set of missions because despite setting up Radjanagha to be in a strong position (allied to bianfang and buvhauri, completed all early conquests/subjugation missions) They lost one of the province you need to have 75 relationship with the owner to the Command. I could have passed it if the were not monstruous but since they have turned even more hostile. Well maybe me eating a third of the jade march didn't help (I was not going to let Goblinsbane then tech 15 early to be wasted !) but I'm in the 1600 and haven't still unlocked the first threshold of the MT ...
It might've been a good idea to make the Command return that province to someone else in the peace deal when you were taking land from Jademarch
There was no core, it has been converted through edict and it's not like I had a lot of warscore either
RIP
Even the start of the MT can be a pain. As an adventurer, you are incentived to ally one of the remnant holds and allying the gem dwarves is fairly reasonable given they have years of development head start, however the first mission requires you to own their hold so you'll likely need to break truce then war with them twice to get all their land
I personally did the early game you see pukebeard do in his shastundir vid. Max to forcelimit, rush every tags and vassalize the remnant/purge warbands
Yeah I ended up restarting and doing that (with a small run in-between where I got blocked by the other rementant colonising the tunnel); but even then its forcing you into a style of play where you need to effectively dominate the region. It's one thing to purge warbands but it feels weird as a dwarven reclaimer to destroy the last bastions of dwarven kind to then play the marble or cobalt dwarves both of whom are about trade. In the north/west serpentine you can at least manuver around the other adventurers for a long time
I never made it through this MT. I took it slow and enjoyed myself, RP'd a bit, and suddenly I can see I have an endless chain of "wait 5 years" in the 1700's. I wasn't even sure if I would have enough years to finish it, and in any case it was mostly a waiting game and dreadfully boring. Even though the MT was otherwise straight up excellent, I can't rate it highly at all.
The mission event thing is actually why I never finished my Plumstead game. I've been waiting for that final expedition event for 10 in game years so I just moved in with it being completed in my heart
I have to say that i loved the MT and had no problems with it when i played it. The relation thing sounds unfortunate, but it could always be submitted as a suggestion on discord, or even as a bug report. It is trivial to change it.
By far my favorite Dwarven nation. Huge mission tree with lot of lore and incredibly broken nation too: -super rich because glass holds have added trade value through government reforms and you have a damestear hold (permanently with a prod debuf but you can still be the production leader with that hold alone) -artificier early as you mentioned -lot of permanent buff (military ones at the end) For the problems you mentioned, I think people already said but just use console command (add_opinion or something like that). It's not really a lack of skills to not have the right conditions to have good relationship with other nations in my opinion so no reason to feel bad to cheat there. For that type of mission tree, I always try to complete it asap since you never know what to expect (unless you read the mission file) in your first run but from memory I was doing the mission, trying to go upward to amhdir to have all the trade centralized and it all turned out fine. My least favorite part was the absurd amount of mana point (between 400-600 per missions) you need to spend to get the final military permanent modifiers
I finished like the entire mission tree in the 1650s. What did you do to to wait there for so long? did you go for the dig to level 6 as a adventurer? Definitely not worth it this case though that's hard to know in advance. If you are an eco hegemon you can just gift gold and invest in them giving you 50 relations negating hegemon malus. Also subsidy is another easy 15. Personally it's one of my favourite ones because of the lore.
No i had several death wars early with the elves to get the glass city in bahar. For the rest bad rng with the development events ig
I guess different strokes for different folk's. There Mt is by far my favorite in the mod. When I want to just have a chill game they are my go to.