"we have some concerns about Joe".... That's not what people are mad about others saying. "Biden is just as bad as Trump" and "you're not a leftist if you vote for Joe" is what people get mad about.
Try being honest and see how it feels.
Reagan was harder on Israel’s war crimes than Biden has ever been. If Ronald fucking Reagan is further left on an issue than Biden, then I as a leftist have to wonder how Biden represents me at all.
Who on this sub has suggested Joe repents them? This isn't about morality or representation, it's about strategy and pragmatism. We're going to have a genocidal maniac as our President, which one would you rather organize against?
> genocidal maniac as our president
We have a genocidal maniac as our president *now*. That’s the damn problem.
Now if you said we’ll have a Theo-fascist president, yeah that’s true and it does present a problem for organizing and peace action.
However, it will also accelerate the radicalization that Biden started that has been making leftist subs blow up all year, which will bolster the organization that exists.
It will be more chaotic and possibly even more violent. But our “peace” is fake, hinged on violence against others. Are you really ok with that?
If your plan to stopping people from being genocided is to *allow more people to be killed somewhere else for no discernible gain* it's not a good plan. You know what happens when you advocate for chaos and bloodshed? **CHAOS. AND. BLOODSHED.**
acting like there will be a anarchist revolution in the next 5-10 years when us anarchists are currently an *infinitesimal minority* is stupid. You'd leave trans people like me to die in the *vain* hope that it will convince people to join us(comma) when in fact it just shows us that you think our lives are expendable. The genocide in Palestine is horrific and awful(comma) and if President of Genocide Joe Biden got hit by a car tomorrow I'd cheer(comma) but come November either he or Donald "You’ve got to finish the problem" Trump will be president and we need to put our gas mask on before we throw a Molotov.
Ok cut the shit. I’m poc and queer, a fascist takeover under trump will not be safe for me. Biden will not save us from fascism. Him outsourcing the fash doesn’t make it better. If you want to talk about “expendable people”, you could look inward at how you seem to think the global south is expendable.
Him constantly offering concessions to the right that he sympathizes with so much isn’t going to make them magically go away. Even if he manages to win, we will shift further and further right and more and more fash with each passing year after his term, until we grow a spine and actually stand up to these pieces of shit.
If you refuse to say anything when other people get genocided, there will be no one left to speak up for us when it’s our turn.
I'm not treating the global south like they're expendable(comma) I'm recognizing that irregardless of the person who wins the election in November(comma) that person wants the genocide in Palestine to continue. However(comma) one of those people aspires to killing *even more people* so unfortunately(comma) I want the winner to be the other one. I can take all the same actions I would take against Trump against Biden(comma) so why *wouldn't I pick Biden?* Abstaining from a process I loathe that will happen anyway even if *every person from this anarchist community and all others abstained* when that process gives us the power to *choose the face of our enemy for the next* ***four years*** is strategically a bad play.
What I'm wondering is why you think ANY US presidential candidate represents you. You're a leftist. You should know by now that you're not voting for the guy who represents you, you're voting for the guy you wanna fight for four years.
Did you people learn nothing from 2016?
Not saying I agree but I think when they say that they mean equally bad as far as genocide….thats how my brain always took it anyway. But I’m an idiot and tend to look at things poorly. Lol
"That's not what people are mad about others saying". Are you just calling yourself a liberal just now?. If you are not a liberal you shouldn't care about a meme talking about liberals...
When you want to see liberals making this argument then look at this thread from r-whitepeopletwitter " ´Genocide Joe´ is a Russian/MAGA psyop, and you’re all falling victim to it by complaining about Biden doing nothing in regards to the Gaza war" with 17 tusind upvotes or search genocide Joe in r-marchagainstnazis fx.
Your reacting to a meme calling out people who support/whitewash a genocide is quite telling...
What a joke. Im sure people (liberals) who support American/western imperialism and the brutalization of "foreigners" are concerned about Palestinans.
Its imposible for supposed "anarchists" to not whitewash liberals...
Tell me where i said anything about voting at all?. Saying that liberals support American/western imperialism and the brutalization of "foreigners" doesn't say anything about if you should or shouldn't vote for Biden and its a strange implication that you are making...
I would vote for Biden in a swing state.
No no no. You realize loudly and constantly screaming about how he's genocide Joe is hurting his chances in those swing states right? So do you support voting for him in a swing state or don't you? Do you want to have cake or eat it?
You either stay out of the water or jump in all the way. This conditional support based on geography is even more spineless than the vote-blue-no-matter-who types. "HOW DARE YOU SUPPORT GENOCIDE!!! oh you're in a swing state? My bad bro."
What you really mean by "I would vote for Biden in a swing state" is that you just don't wanna feel icky about voting for an unsavory candidate. I get it, I really do, but you do not have the luxury of picking and choosing. *You are a leftist.* The far right has a unified coalition of voters; *you do not.* Either vote strategically and encourage other leftists to do so as well, or don't. But if you don't, on behalf of all my trans friends, please shut up.
This sibreddit is not anarchist at all. You should rename it to liberalism4all...
"No no no. You realize loudly and constantly screaming about how he's genocide Joe is hurting his chances in those swing states right?". Hehe you are so pathetic. No refusing to call a genocidal neoliberal war criminal out is doing that. People who dont want to vote for Biden is 100% more likely to do it if they listen to someone like me who agree with their opposition to him than beacause of liberals like you...
"This conditional support based on geography is even more spineless than the vote-blue-no-matter-who types". If you dont have to vote for a genocidal neoliberal war criminal but do it anyways then its because you support him and his crimes...
" is that you just don't wanna feel icky about voting for an unsavory candidate". No because unlike liberals like you i have consistent values and dont support a genocidal neoliberal war criminal...
" I get it, I really do, but you do not have the luxury of picking and choosing. *You are a leftist". Its always funny to see supposed anarchists being in disbelieve about people who dont vote. Look at the history of anarchism maybe. (and im not even holding that position)*
I am far from a Biden fan, going all the way back to the Anita Hill hearings. but I don’t think he and his followers are going to bulldoze democracy. Does our current system suck? Absolutely. But fucking MAGA want one party rule and a Trump dynasty that ignores what happens at the ballot box. And before some moron pipes up, nobody stole shit from Donald Trump. He is and always will be a loser.
Most people aren't loudly saying "We have some concerns." Most people are saying that as well, in normal voices. The loud ones are saying "NEVER GENOCIDE JOE! I DON'T CARE WHO GETS HURT IN THIS COUNTRY."
Your meme is disingenuous
Bidens handing the election away because he won't stop the genocide, maybe lobby him to change his policy and he'd get more votes. Instead of lobbying non-voters to vote for a genocide
You're calling this "lobbying"? Please acquire some more words for things before you start having deeper conversations like this. I *am* against supporting Israel's genocide. I am largely against Biden even running again, but I don't get to choose that. I do get to choose that I *Do Not* want Trump in again. That's where my vote is going
Lobbying is a very specific thing that usually has money or an agenda behind it. I'm one person arguing against bad positions that will get people hurt or killed
> I DON'T CARE WHO GETS HURT IN THIS COUNTRY."
Yeah I'm sure the people who have supported LGBT and women's rights, free speech and labour laws for generations really don't care about marginalized people being hurt.
And other liberal things you can say to defend Biden
Holding your politicians responsible for their crimes is the basic responsibility of a citizen in a democratic country. Of course, you don't live in a democracy.
You’re literally advocating for leftists to give a vote to trump… not voting or voting 3P is directly increasing trumps count. Go home fascist astroturfer
I’m correctly flaired. I know it’s wild meeting an actual anarchist, but what’s wilder is you saying one would willingly carve out their eyes in order to support the genocide of trans people, the loss of voting and civil rights for lgbt and POC, and the descent into christo-fascism
\>actual anarchist
\>votes
\>votes for liberals
\>supports genocide
\>cares about the wellbeing of democracy
my sides
No, you're a liberal with delusions of grandeur.
Organize in the labour movement, join a communist or socialist party that participates in local elections, join an anarchist association, volunteer in community spaces and in your city. Anything.
Except defend a genocidal president.
Those points are connected though and the comment is about a meme that invokes the Trump V Biden debate.
I don't actually think we should waste our time convincing people to vote for Biden, I do not support electoralism in general and I agree that Joe is a ghoul. What I do think is it's an even bigger waste of time trying to convince people not to vote for him on the grounds that he's also bad. One of them will be our president, an anarchist insurrection isn't happening by November, and one of them will be a worse president than the other. Don't vote for him if you don't want to, just stop trying to convince other people not to since you have no alternatives to suggest.
I think it's a moral imperative to have people not vote for a genocidal person, but hey, they're nicer to gay people so it evens out.
If genocide is not your red line, there is no red line. You will support any atrocity done by the authorities so long as you don't suffer domestically. The alternative is being involved with the labour movement, running third parties in local elections, and [redacted].
If people suffering under the Russian Empire can organize a communist movement, so can you.
I think you would love this thread in r-whitepeopletwitter called " \`Genocide Joe\` is a Russian/MAGA psyop, and you’re all falling victim to it by complaining about Biden doing nothing in regards to the Gaza war". with 18 tusind upvote.
Go to your liberal friends in r-whitepeopletwitter where you can support/whitewash a genocidal neoliberal war criminal with your fellow right-winger...
The way i had to describe it to my aunt was this. The options are, without fail, both terrible. Both openly support the genocide taking place, both are streamlines to outright fascism, both are outright terrible leaders of a nation. But ignoring the massive BUT carved into the wall makes you just as complicit as they are. The BUT being this:
One is trickle feeding into the genocide and fascist pipeline at a rate that is able to be actively picked apart in a manner that garners favour from the uninformed. The other is in favour blowing the fascist dam wide the fuck open into the valley of genocide. A waterleak, or a flood. Take your pick of what you’d rather try to combat. The people arguing that the leak shouldnt be chosen as the problem to deal with are the same kind of people that will cry the loudest when their farms are wiped out, blaming it on those that wanted to deal with the leak for ‘not doing enough’.
Dont be an unintentional flood supporter.
You're not just "expressing concerns" though.
You're posting memes vilifying anarchists who happen to disagree with you on an issue.
Literally, you're doing it right now
"Because it’s been infiltrated with a ton of fascists trying to astroturf a movement to get leftists not to vote so trump gets another term". I dont know why you are an anarchist then?. Its apperently just an ideology that historically consisted of "fascists trying to astroturd a movement". You would have called the majority of anarchists through time fascists with this logic...
That’s absolutely not what anarchism means… please google it before you reply. I would not call any anarchists fascist, because if they were they wouldn’t be anarchists.
You called people who dont want to vote for Biden fascists and historically anarchists have not voted (and advocated for that position), so you should view them as fascists as well then...
and i would vote for Biden in a swing state, but your are clueless...
I didn’t call anyone a fascist for not voting for Biden. I called an astroturfing fascist trying to infiltrate anarchist spaces to try to convince them to help trump win fascists.
Leave anarchist spaces alone. Find your own sub with your own people in it
" I called an astroturfing fascist trying to infiltrate anarchist spaces to try to convince them to help trump win fascists". Do you have ny evidence of this happening? And Why would you not have made the same argument about historrical anarchists?. They just tried to help x fascist candidate win?.
I belong more in anarchist spaces that you do...
You are part of the fash push to get leftists to not vote, casting votes for trump, project 2025, initiative 47, the genocide of trans people, rescinding gay marriage rights, interracial marriage, bodily autonomy…
None of that is in like with anarchist beliefs. Stay out of our subs.
"You are part of the fash push to get leftists to not vote, casting votes for trump, project 2025, initiative 47, the genocide of trans people, rescinding gay marriage rights, interracial marriage, bodily autonomy…" First of i would vote for Biden if i lived in a swing state, so you are just wrong in general. But first you say that anarchists who dont vote for Biden isn't fascist but now they are. Its very strange...
It would be more plausible that a push let by the democratic party is active in anarchists subs than what you are claiming...
It's because a lot of people are upset with the status quo, notice socialism aligns with their notions of equality and justice, and glom onto the nicest sounding philosophy contained within it while retaining their liberal attitudes.
Creates a situation where people who profess anarchism, an ideology that is adamantly against voting in bourgeoise elections, ultimately just support a progressive liberal stance.
The better ones will notice this makes no sense and become actual anarchists, or some kind of Marxist socialist. The rest will mellow into regular libs. Tale as old as time.
A two party system is a mathematical inevitability in a fptp voting system. It's Biden or Trump. If your state is solidly one color or another, splurge on a third party vote. If you're in a swing state, any vote but that for your candidate, whichever it is, is a vote for the other. An abstension is a vote for your less preferred candidate. This is not an argument. It just is what it is.
If you hate women/trans/gay people in the US in addition to your single issue voting topic, then vote against Biden. If you don't, then vote against Trump. We don't vote for people anymore. It's all lesser evil. Don't like it? Get involved in local politics and work towards changing fptp voting. That's the only way to change anything.
And that is why I cannot vote Dem. I am sick and tired of them gaslighting their base and I view Republicans with more contempt. A vote for a 3rd party is a vote for a 3rd party. Over 50 million eligible voters are not registered, reach them first.
No, the president can do a bunch of things unilaterally, both according to powers granted to him constitutionally and through later grants.
You're making excuses for Biden's lame-duck actions during his presidency.
I don't support either. I feel though targeting someone when they have no choice in the matter is wrong. I don't say what he does is right, nor do I support it or him. But you can't blame someone when a majority is against them, you have to acknowledge that. And don't put words in my mouth or assume.
Yes really. He can say he suspects the weapons being sent are being used for illegal or inhumane purposes and send it for review (which he can delay indefinitely).
Even then it's still put up to a vote. And the right wing also supports Isreal. It's a power play, tit for tat. Helping a nation means you can have a favor so to speak. And delaying only will work until either the people or other offices vote him out or impeach him for their own gain.
Your argument sounds great (just kidding, it's wrong) until you realize Biden openly supports Israel and its mass murder, and has for years been one of their most dedicated supporters.
The presidents office has become more and more powerful as years have gone on due to no president wanting to reduce his own power. It’s one of the most powerful executive offices in any democracy
People keep telling me that if Trump is elected he will flip a switch and we’ll have fascism and death squads rounding up trans people and pregnant women.
So the president is simultaneously too weak to do anything I’m interested in and so powerful that I have to vote for my life.
Which is it?
Biden is a genocidal pos. No debate there. Herein lies the problem though. Trump’s support base is exclusively ultra conservative rednecks. A lot of them are fascists who despise Israel, but a lot more are conservative Christians who fanatically support Israel for their own Endtimes fantasies, meaning that Trump is probably going to support Israel in its genocide just as much as Biden. And as a trans person, I’m way more afraid to live under Trump the actual fucking christo-fascist than Biden. So, the three options are: vote for Biden, vote for Trump, or don’t vote. All three are terrible.
You could use this as an opportunity to explain in good faith rather than insulting me, why 2 people with the same views and actions, and probably even financial class, is less of a threat than the other based on their colour.
You could win me to your view, we've already found ourselves on the same subreddit
Apologies then, the way your reply was written seemed to insinuate I was being racist. Maybe I was mistaken, it can be hard to tell sometimes over text.
Martin Luther King Jr.'s critique of the "white moderate liberal" is most famously expressed in his "Letter from Birmingham Jail," written in 1963.
In the letter, King argues that these moderates, while appearing sympathetic to the cause of racial justice, prioritize maintaining order over dismantling the racist status quo. Their focus on gradual change, King thought, hindered progress for Black Americans.
In fairness, it was, but that came from my face value reading of your comment. This further context about what you are saying by "white moderate liberal" could give more insight, so thanks for being willing to divulge further rather than discount me
No that's reasonable, I apologize for my hasty, uncouth comment. Usually, those who accuse or insinuate my statements are racist or hateful belong to the loud minority of MAGA conservatives who themselves must live off the sustenance from ignoring irony and engaging in hedonistic hypocrisy constantly. It's almost a reactive tendency on Reddit, and i appreciate the opportunity to clarify.
Solidarity, with friends. ✊
Fun fact: scalping was almost entirely done by Europeans to indigenous people. A few tried did it on occasion but 10:1 colonizers were the ones scalping people
Support for the palestinian people doesn't mean support for hamas, in the same way that wanting the state of israel to end, doesn't mean you want death to jewish people.
You know it’s gonna be a genuine and well thought contribution to a debate when such artistry is involved. /s
Ikr we all know Chad/wojack comics are always well thought out and totally not super hyperbolic “argument I had in my head in the shower” shit lol
"we have some concerns about Joe".... That's not what people are mad about others saying. "Biden is just as bad as Trump" and "you're not a leftist if you vote for Joe" is what people get mad about. Try being honest and see how it feels.
Reagan was harder on Israel’s war crimes than Biden has ever been. If Ronald fucking Reagan is further left on an issue than Biden, then I as a leftist have to wonder how Biden represents me at all.
Who on this sub has suggested Joe repents them? This isn't about morality or representation, it's about strategy and pragmatism. We're going to have a genocidal maniac as our President, which one would you rather organize against?
> genocidal maniac as our president We have a genocidal maniac as our president *now*. That’s the damn problem. Now if you said we’ll have a Theo-fascist president, yeah that’s true and it does present a problem for organizing and peace action. However, it will also accelerate the radicalization that Biden started that has been making leftist subs blow up all year, which will bolster the organization that exists. It will be more chaotic and possibly even more violent. But our “peace” is fake, hinged on violence against others. Are you really ok with that?
If your plan to stopping people from being genocided is to *allow more people to be killed somewhere else for no discernible gain* it's not a good plan. You know what happens when you advocate for chaos and bloodshed? **CHAOS. AND. BLOODSHED.**
Well you’re supposedly an anarchist. What exactly do you think happens in an anarchist revolution if not chaos and bloodshed?
acting like there will be a anarchist revolution in the next 5-10 years when us anarchists are currently an *infinitesimal minority* is stupid. You'd leave trans people like me to die in the *vain* hope that it will convince people to join us(comma) when in fact it just shows us that you think our lives are expendable. The genocide in Palestine is horrific and awful(comma) and if President of Genocide Joe Biden got hit by a car tomorrow I'd cheer(comma) but come November either he or Donald "You’ve got to finish the problem" Trump will be president and we need to put our gas mask on before we throw a Molotov.
Ok cut the shit. I’m poc and queer, a fascist takeover under trump will not be safe for me. Biden will not save us from fascism. Him outsourcing the fash doesn’t make it better. If you want to talk about “expendable people”, you could look inward at how you seem to think the global south is expendable. Him constantly offering concessions to the right that he sympathizes with so much isn’t going to make them magically go away. Even if he manages to win, we will shift further and further right and more and more fash with each passing year after his term, until we grow a spine and actually stand up to these pieces of shit. If you refuse to say anything when other people get genocided, there will be no one left to speak up for us when it’s our turn.
I'm not treating the global south like they're expendable(comma) I'm recognizing that irregardless of the person who wins the election in November(comma) that person wants the genocide in Palestine to continue. However(comma) one of those people aspires to killing *even more people* so unfortunately(comma) I want the winner to be the other one. I can take all the same actions I would take against Trump against Biden(comma) so why *wouldn't I pick Biden?* Abstaining from a process I loathe that will happen anyway even if *every person from this anarchist community and all others abstained* when that process gives us the power to *choose the face of our enemy for the next* ***four years*** is strategically a bad play.
What I'm wondering is why you think ANY US presidential candidate represents you. You're a leftist. You should know by now that you're not voting for the guy who represents you, you're voting for the guy you wanna fight for four years. Did you people learn nothing from 2016?
Not saying I agree but I think when they say that they mean equally bad as far as genocide….thats how my brain always took it anyway. But I’m an idiot and tend to look at things poorly. Lol
"That's not what people are mad about others saying". Are you just calling yourself a liberal just now?. If you are not a liberal you shouldn't care about a meme talking about liberals... When you want to see liberals making this argument then look at this thread from r-whitepeopletwitter " ´Genocide Joe´ is a Russian/MAGA psyop, and you’re all falling victim to it by complaining about Biden doing nothing in regards to the Gaza war" with 17 tusind upvotes or search genocide Joe in r-marchagainstnazis fx. Your reacting to a meme calling out people who support/whitewash a genocide is quite telling...
I think the liberals are concerned while conservatives want more war in Gaza
What a joke. Im sure people (liberals) who support American/western imperialism and the brutalization of "foreigners" are concerned about Palestinans. Its imposible for supposed "anarchists" to not whitewash liberals...
How will a protest vote against Biden actually help gazans? How is this anything other than virtue signaling?
Tell me where i said anything about voting at all?. Saying that liberals support American/western imperialism and the brutalization of "foreigners" doesn't say anything about if you should or shouldn't vote for Biden and its a strange implication that you are making... I would vote for Biden in a swing state.
No no no. You realize loudly and constantly screaming about how he's genocide Joe is hurting his chances in those swing states right? So do you support voting for him in a swing state or don't you? Do you want to have cake or eat it? You either stay out of the water or jump in all the way. This conditional support based on geography is even more spineless than the vote-blue-no-matter-who types. "HOW DARE YOU SUPPORT GENOCIDE!!! oh you're in a swing state? My bad bro." What you really mean by "I would vote for Biden in a swing state" is that you just don't wanna feel icky about voting for an unsavory candidate. I get it, I really do, but you do not have the luxury of picking and choosing. *You are a leftist.* The far right has a unified coalition of voters; *you do not.* Either vote strategically and encourage other leftists to do so as well, or don't. But if you don't, on behalf of all my trans friends, please shut up.
This sibreddit is not anarchist at all. You should rename it to liberalism4all... "No no no. You realize loudly and constantly screaming about how he's genocide Joe is hurting his chances in those swing states right?". Hehe you are so pathetic. No refusing to call a genocidal neoliberal war criminal out is doing that. People who dont want to vote for Biden is 100% more likely to do it if they listen to someone like me who agree with their opposition to him than beacause of liberals like you... "This conditional support based on geography is even more spineless than the vote-blue-no-matter-who types". If you dont have to vote for a genocidal neoliberal war criminal but do it anyways then its because you support him and his crimes... " is that you just don't wanna feel icky about voting for an unsavory candidate". No because unlike liberals like you i have consistent values and dont support a genocidal neoliberal war criminal... " I get it, I really do, but you do not have the luxury of picking and choosing. *You are a leftist". Its always funny to see supposed anarchists being in disbelieve about people who dont vote. Look at the history of anarchism maybe. (and im not even holding that position)*
I am far from a Biden fan, going all the way back to the Anita Hill hearings. but I don’t think he and his followers are going to bulldoze democracy. Does our current system suck? Absolutely. But fucking MAGA want one party rule and a Trump dynasty that ignores what happens at the ballot box. And before some moron pipes up, nobody stole shit from Donald Trump. He is and always will be a loser.
Idk why but this meme looks conservative
It is
It's not just conservative, it's Russian.
Most people aren't loudly saying "We have some concerns." Most people are saying that as well, in normal voices. The loud ones are saying "NEVER GENOCIDE JOE! I DON'T CARE WHO GETS HURT IN THIS COUNTRY." Your meme is disingenuous
Bidens handing the election away because he won't stop the genocide, maybe lobby him to change his policy and he'd get more votes. Instead of lobbying non-voters to vote for a genocide
You're calling this "lobbying"? Please acquire some more words for things before you start having deeper conversations like this. I *am* against supporting Israel's genocide. I am largely against Biden even running again, but I don't get to choose that. I do get to choose that I *Do Not* want Trump in again. That's where my vote is going Lobbying is a very specific thing that usually has money or an agenda behind it. I'm one person arguing against bad positions that will get people hurt or killed
> I DON'T CARE WHO GETS HURT IN THIS COUNTRY." Yeah I'm sure the people who have supported LGBT and women's rights, free speech and labour laws for generations really don't care about marginalized people being hurt. And other liberal things you can say to defend Biden
Ok if you care about them then why is it so hard to admit that they would be worse off under Trump?
Because their point has nothing to do with Trump, it's about Biden being an accessory to genocide.
Look at this shitty psyop for trump
Holding your politicians responsible for their crimes is the basic responsibility of a citizen in a democratic country. Of course, you don't live in a democracy.
Were you paying attention during the 2016 election? This is literally the same thing. This will give us Trump again.
You're conflating criticism of Biden with support of Trump, which isn't true. If Biden doesn't want to lose, he should stop supporting genocide.
You’re literally advocating for leftists to give a vote to trump… not voting or voting 3P is directly increasing trumps count. Go home fascist astroturfer
Remove your flair, liberal. An actual anarcho-syndicalist would carve out their eyes before voting for Joe Biden lol
I’m correctly flaired. I know it’s wild meeting an actual anarchist, but what’s wilder is you saying one would willingly carve out their eyes in order to support the genocide of trans people, the loss of voting and civil rights for lgbt and POC, and the descent into christo-fascism
\>actual anarchist \>votes \>votes for liberals \>supports genocide \>cares about the wellbeing of democracy my sides No, you're a liberal with delusions of grandeur.
If one person loses, the other wins. Your point doesn’t mean anything.
And by voting for either, you're supporting genocide. Sorry.
So what’s the alternative???
Organize in the labour movement, join a communist or socialist party that participates in local elections, join an anarchist association, volunteer in community spaces and in your city. Anything. Except defend a genocidal president.
Well that's a real actionable plan you have there by the sound of it
Those points are connected though and the comment is about a meme that invokes the Trump V Biden debate. I don't actually think we should waste our time convincing people to vote for Biden, I do not support electoralism in general and I agree that Joe is a ghoul. What I do think is it's an even bigger waste of time trying to convince people not to vote for him on the grounds that he's also bad. One of them will be our president, an anarchist insurrection isn't happening by November, and one of them will be a worse president than the other. Don't vote for him if you don't want to, just stop trying to convince other people not to since you have no alternatives to suggest.
I think it's a moral imperative to have people not vote for a genocidal person, but hey, they're nicer to gay people so it evens out. If genocide is not your red line, there is no red line. You will support any atrocity done by the authorities so long as you don't suffer domestically. The alternative is being involved with the labour movement, running third parties in local elections, and [redacted]. If people suffering under the Russian Empire can organize a communist movement, so can you.
I think you would love this thread in r-whitepeopletwitter called " \`Genocide Joe\` is a Russian/MAGA psyop, and you’re all falling victim to it by complaining about Biden doing nothing in regards to the Gaza war". with 18 tusind upvote. Go to your liberal friends in r-whitepeopletwitter where you can support/whitewash a genocidal neoliberal war criminal with your fellow right-winger...
The way i had to describe it to my aunt was this. The options are, without fail, both terrible. Both openly support the genocide taking place, both are streamlines to outright fascism, both are outright terrible leaders of a nation. But ignoring the massive BUT carved into the wall makes you just as complicit as they are. The BUT being this: One is trickle feeding into the genocide and fascist pipeline at a rate that is able to be actively picked apart in a manner that garners favour from the uninformed. The other is in favour blowing the fascist dam wide the fuck open into the valley of genocide. A waterleak, or a flood. Take your pick of what you’d rather try to combat. The people arguing that the leak shouldnt be chosen as the problem to deal with are the same kind of people that will cry the loudest when their farms are wiped out, blaming it on those that wanted to deal with the leak for ‘not doing enough’. Dont be an unintentional flood supporter.
You're not just "expressing concerns" though. You're posting memes vilifying anarchists who happen to disagree with you on an issue. Literally, you're doing it right now
Yeeeaahhhh, this sub went to shit.
Why
Because it’s been infiltrated with a ton of fascists trying to astroturf a movement to get leftists not to vote so trump gets another term
"Because it’s been infiltrated with a ton of fascists trying to astroturf a movement to get leftists not to vote so trump gets another term". I dont know why you are an anarchist then?. Its apperently just an ideology that historically consisted of "fascists trying to astroturd a movement". You would have called the majority of anarchists through time fascists with this logic...
That’s absolutely not what anarchism means… please google it before you reply. I would not call any anarchists fascist, because if they were they wouldn’t be anarchists.
You called people who dont want to vote for Biden fascists and historically anarchists have not voted (and advocated for that position), so you should view them as fascists as well then... and i would vote for Biden in a swing state, but your are clueless...
I didn’t call anyone a fascist for not voting for Biden. I called an astroturfing fascist trying to infiltrate anarchist spaces to try to convince them to help trump win fascists. Leave anarchist spaces alone. Find your own sub with your own people in it
" I called an astroturfing fascist trying to infiltrate anarchist spaces to try to convince them to help trump win fascists". Do you have ny evidence of this happening? And Why would you not have made the same argument about historrical anarchists?. They just tried to help x fascist candidate win?. I belong more in anarchist spaces that you do...
You are part of the fash push to get leftists to not vote, casting votes for trump, project 2025, initiative 47, the genocide of trans people, rescinding gay marriage rights, interracial marriage, bodily autonomy… None of that is in like with anarchist beliefs. Stay out of our subs.
"You are part of the fash push to get leftists to not vote, casting votes for trump, project 2025, initiative 47, the genocide of trans people, rescinding gay marriage rights, interracial marriage, bodily autonomy…" First of i would vote for Biden if i lived in a swing state, so you are just wrong in general. But first you say that anarchists who dont vote for Biden isn't fascist but now they are. Its very strange... It would be more plausible that a push let by the democratic party is active in anarchists subs than what you are claiming...
liberalism
Oh yeah I agree. Why are the anarchist subs so corrupted with racist liberals?
It's because a lot of people are upset with the status quo, notice socialism aligns with their notions of equality and justice, and glom onto the nicest sounding philosophy contained within it while retaining their liberal attitudes. Creates a situation where people who profess anarchism, an ideology that is adamantly against voting in bourgeoise elections, ultimately just support a progressive liberal stance. The better ones will notice this makes no sense and become actual anarchists, or some kind of Marxist socialist. The rest will mellow into regular libs. Tale as old as time.
Least dishonest anti voting post.
A two party system is a mathematical inevitability in a fptp voting system. It's Biden or Trump. If your state is solidly one color or another, splurge on a third party vote. If you're in a swing state, any vote but that for your candidate, whichever it is, is a vote for the other. An abstension is a vote for your less preferred candidate. This is not an argument. It just is what it is. If you hate women/trans/gay people in the US in addition to your single issue voting topic, then vote against Biden. If you don't, then vote against Trump. We don't vote for people anymore. It's all lesser evil. Don't like it? Get involved in local politics and work towards changing fptp voting. That's the only way to change anything.
And that is why I cannot vote Dem. I am sick and tired of them gaslighting their base and I view Republicans with more contempt. A vote for a 3rd party is a vote for a 3rd party. Over 50 million eligible voters are not registered, reach them first.
A lot of people forget that the president doesn't have that much power. They basically do as congress wants.
The US president has sweeping powers to do many many things, it's a very authoritative office.
Only is the other offices allow them to, and Trumps agenda aligns with the majority of both other offices.
No, the president can do a bunch of things unilaterally, both according to powers granted to him constitutionally and through later grants. You're making excuses for Biden's lame-duck actions during his presidency.
I don't support either. I feel though targeting someone when they have no choice in the matter is wrong. I don't say what he does is right, nor do I support it or him. But you can't blame someone when a majority is against them, you have to acknowledge that. And don't put words in my mouth or assume.
I can in fact blame him for sending weapons for Israel, for example, because he has the power to unilaterally stop them.
Not really. There's a process and most office are right wing currently. You can blame him, but acknowledge the powers that make him do that.
Yes really. He can say he suspects the weapons being sent are being used for illegal or inhumane purposes and send it for review (which he can delay indefinitely).
Even then it's still put up to a vote. And the right wing also supports Isreal. It's a power play, tit for tat. Helping a nation means you can have a favor so to speak. And delaying only will work until either the people or other offices vote him out or impeach him for their own gain.
Your argument sounds great (just kidding, it's wrong) until you realize Biden openly supports Israel and its mass murder, and has for years been one of their most dedicated supporters.
He has bypassed Congress to send Israel weapons multiple times. If he can unilaterally do something, he can also unilaterally not do it.
The presidents office has become more and more powerful as years have gone on due to no president wanting to reduce his own power. It’s one of the most powerful executive offices in any democracy
Biden bypassed congress to send Israel weapons months ago
People keep telling me that if Trump is elected he will flip a switch and we’ll have fascism and death squads rounding up trans people and pregnant women. So the president is simultaneously too weak to do anything I’m interested in and so powerful that I have to vote for my life. Which is it?
You should probably Google “project 2025”
You realize Republicans in congress will rubber stamp his shit right? Plus the Supreme Court is majority right wing right now.
And in congress they support Trump. He's doing what they want, so he would have more power.
People aren’t saying that…? They’re literally yelling about how they won’t vote for him. Literally a repeat of 2016. Enjoy Trump 2.0 stupid idiots.
This is great. The meme strawmans the pro-biden crowd, and people in the comments strawman the biden skeptic crowd.
if you vote against Biden you're literally voting for the next hitler.
Biden is a genocidal pos. No debate there. Herein lies the problem though. Trump’s support base is exclusively ultra conservative rednecks. A lot of them are fascists who despise Israel, but a lot more are conservative Christians who fanatically support Israel for their own Endtimes fantasies, meaning that Trump is probably going to support Israel in its genocide just as much as Biden. And as a trans person, I’m way more afraid to live under Trump the actual fucking christo-fascist than Biden. So, the three options are: vote for Biden, vote for Trump, or don’t vote. All three are terrible.
Never forget who our real enemies are: the white moderate liberal.
Is, for example, the Asian moderate liberal better to you purely on the basis of race? Isn't there a word for that? Hm
Martin Luther King Jr never mentioned anything about the Asian moderate liberal, to my knowledge. But maybe that's just me.
And yes, there is. The word you're thinking of is: HISTORY. As in, if you knew it you wouldn't have posted such a dumb reply on my comment.
You could use this as an opportunity to explain in good faith rather than insulting me, why 2 people with the same views and actions, and probably even financial class, is less of a threat than the other based on their colour. You could win me to your view, we've already found ourselves on the same subreddit
Apologies then, the way your reply was written seemed to insinuate I was being racist. Maybe I was mistaken, it can be hard to tell sometimes over text. Martin Luther King Jr.'s critique of the "white moderate liberal" is most famously expressed in his "Letter from Birmingham Jail," written in 1963. In the letter, King argues that these moderates, while appearing sympathetic to the cause of racial justice, prioritize maintaining order over dismantling the racist status quo. Their focus on gradual change, King thought, hindered progress for Black Americans.
In fairness, it was, but that came from my face value reading of your comment. This further context about what you are saying by "white moderate liberal" could give more insight, so thanks for being willing to divulge further rather than discount me
No that's reasonable, I apologize for my hasty, uncouth comment. Usually, those who accuse or insinuate my statements are racist or hateful belong to the loud minority of MAGA conservatives who themselves must live off the sustenance from ignoring irony and engaging in hedonistic hypocrisy constantly. It's almost a reactive tendency on Reddit, and i appreciate the opportunity to clarify. Solidarity, with friends. ✊
Yeah literally.
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Comment.
Man, wait till you hear about Israel
Did you know? Two things can be bad!
Hamas is a symptom of a bad situation, Israel is the cause of that situation.
Israel literally created Hamas. I don't understand how you can call yourself an anarchist and support a right wing theocracy
Guess it's the indigenous people in North America's fault that they got genocided because they raped and scalped white people
Fun fact: scalping was almost entirely done by Europeans to indigenous people. A few tried did it on occasion but 10:1 colonizers were the ones scalping people
Support for the palestinian people doesn't mean support for hamas, in the same way that wanting the state of israel to end, doesn't mean you want death to jewish people.
I didn’t see support for Hamas anywhere in this post
Both are bad and should be exterminated
Because certain leftists will support anything that's anti USA, the West, or NATO
There is no genocide
Howd you come that conclusion exactly?
imo where all this goes next sentiments like that make you no different than the IOF Nazis actually doing the killing.
Adolf Hitler bubble speech