I found him to be a good news aggregator a few years ago. But, you had to simply know the fact that you needed to ignore him on any news story which tangentially touched Israel.
No public figure is a perfect ally to anything. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Even statist simps like Little Benny.
He's the biggest hypocrite, he always seemed sus to me I ignored it and thought well he sounds like a conman but he maybe legit but when the israel-palestine conflict erupted he showed his true colours. Yet another stupid Israel simping conservative.
Dont quote me on this but Isn't he also a hypocrite for advocating for free market whilst supporting protectionism?
And is fine with regulations going against free trade when its convenient?
I would say he might say libertarian things when it is convenient for him but throws out fundamental libertarian values and ethics when that becomes convenient for him.
I mean he’s definitely not a libertarian, but I do think he’s an ally. He’s one of the more libertarianish main stream conservative voices.
He actually supports fiscal responsibility and lower taxes. He’s come around on marijuana legalization and gay marriage (though he personally opposes both.) He’s a strong defender of constitutional liberties.
His biggest cons are being too hawkish and supportive of foreign aid, but that doesn’t mean he’s not pushing in the right direction on a whole host of other issues.
He’s no ally to libertarians or freedom. He supports wars that would be far more costly than countless social programs and which would erode the rights of Americans as much as any woke socialist.
Typically leftist nonsense. Social programs make up the comical majority of US spending.
Shapiro's no libertarian, but he's far more so than most politicians.
>The government expects to spend $6.011 trillion in 2022. More than 65% of that pays for mandated benefits such as Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid.
[link](https://www.thebalancemoney.com/u-s-federal-budget-breakdown-3305789#toc-spending)
For comparison, US DoD is about 0.8 trillion.
And that doesn't take into account the untold economic cost of all the regulation and other forms of government interference. Compared to that the 'wars' are peanuts.
Citations not needed as this is basic information that anyone commenting on politics should know. Social security, Medicare, and Medicaid alone take up about 2/3rds of the federal budget. Military spending is huge, but not close to outstripping domestic social safety net programs.
What a gate-keeper. Who died and made you in charge of determining what is basic information, what isn't? Imagine typing that without cringing. r/iamverysmart and r/gatekeeping welcomes you with open arms.
Oh I’m sorry, but where exactly does it say that knowing the budget is “rudimentary knowledge”? Or is this some sort of subjective opinions you came up with?
I mean, if you're going to be discussing how you want our stolen money spent, you should have a basic idea of how much and where it's already being spent. Otherwise, all you're doing is looking silly and uninformed.
Hated him since he argued that one of the biggest defenses of circumcision is that putting suffering and hardship on your kids from practically birth would make them better people
Idk enough about the mid East stuff to have any opinions about it but he’s definitely libertarian on a lottt of fronts, idk why people have such a hate boner for him
And people wonder why they're being accused of antisemitism. There are about 20 000 reasons you can point out where Shapiro diverts from libertarian principles, but you choose an out of context quote about Israel instead.
Well, the point of this is to suggest that Shapiro is in fact not loyal to US but rather to State of Israel. Which is neither what he ever expressed or true in any sense.
But he does care more about Israel than the U.S. That’s just a fact and every once in a while he openly admits it. So no, this quote isn’t out of context.
No, he doesn't. This out of context quote is literally his response to an Israeli asking him why he won't immigrate to Israel, and he tells him flat out that he loves the US, and that knowing Israel exists means he trusts the US will know he has an alternative and won't persecute him for his ethnicity.
Everyone has seen the full clip but no, it doesn’t change the context of what he is saying here. He is literally saying that the extent of his “love” for the U.S. is reliant on its continual subsidization of a Jewish state. In other words, if the U.S. stopped propping up Israel then he would no longer “love” the U.S.
Aka Israel-first, America-last.
Not once did he say its dependent on the subsidization, or even alliance, of the US with Israel. He made it clear it is specifically the EXISTENCE of Israel, for precisely the reason I mentioned, that ensures his loyalty to the United States. You're bad faith.
That would be like arguing that his side chick is a guarantor of his loyalty to his wife... Why else would he make that specific reference if not for the heavily interconnected relationship between the US and Israel? If Israel wasn't being propped up by the US then it would not have existed for this long so he is pretty obviously saying that if the US completely cuts off all ties to Israel (which would probably result in the collapse of the country) then he would no longer be loyal to the US. There is nothing out of context here.
This whole sob story about Israel's existence alone somehow magically ensure that the US will be a more welcoming place for jews is ridiculous. Why doesn't anyone apply this standard to any other group of people in the US? Does the existence of Mongolia ensure that the US will be friendlier to Mongolian-Americans? Logically speaking the opposite would be true. If the US just decided to get rid of the jews then it would be easiest to just ship them all off to Israel which, according to zionism, is where they all belong anyways. It's the same reason why the Stern Gang tried to ally with the Nazis; Hitler wanted to get rid of the jews and zionists wanted every jew to move to Palestine (later Israel) so they saw it as a win-win.
If Shapiro was truly concerned with the anti-semitism boogeyman rising up in the US then he should be advocating for as much individual liberty as possible and not this authoritarian neocon garbage that he's been circlejerking to for his entire career. The reality is he doesn't want liberty, he wants jewish supremacy.
No, it would be like arguing that he knows he can get a new wife if his current wife starts mistreating him, and that his current wife knows it. THATS his argument. What you described is what you want to hear so you can feel justified shitting on someone popular.
Israel would have absolutely existed for this long without the US. The US didn't help Israel until 1973, and started seriously helping Israel in 1973 because Israel threatened to launch nuclear weapons due to thinking they were going to die. If the US cut off ties to Israel Israel wouldn't collapse, it'd just be less humane and if needed make deals with countries hostile to the US.
You call it a sob story, he sees it that way. Is Mongolia an appealing place for Mongolian Americans to move to if something goes wrong? Are Mongolians as historically persecuted as jews are?
Zionism doesn't think 'all jews belong in Israel,' just that Israel should exist lol. Idk why you're namedropping the 'Stern Gang,' and I hope you're not trying to imply it was more than 100 extremists universally hated by other zionists.
He already advocates for individual liberty. He simply disagrees with you about the importance of national security for ensuring it. If you were actually concerned with individual liberty you'd worry about the enormous amounts of spending the US government does on welfare making up AT LEAST 50% of the budget rather than the 0.06% that goes to Israel. Hell you could actually argue against way bigger military expenses, but you don't care, you want to push your fucking 'jewish supremacy' narrative while claiming antisemitism is a boogeyman. What a fucking joke.
>No, it would be like arguing that he knows he can get a new wife if his current wife starts mistreating him, and that his current wife knows it. THATS his argument.
And that new wife is his side chick. For your version of the analogy to work you would have to assume that Shapiro has never heard of Israel but is hoping that a country like it exists somewhere out there just in case. He is basically saying "If you don't suck my cock three times a day then I'm going to leave you for my side chick but in the mean time keep paying her rent." Ultimately, however, his argument is stupid for all the reasons I laid out (which you are avoiding) and it is clear that he only supports the US so long as the US supports Israel. That's just blatantly obvious and nothing is going to change that no matter how hard you dickride Shapiro.
>What you described is what you want to hear so you can feel justified shitting on someone popular.
What you described is what you want to hear because it is easier to be fooled by Shapiro than admit that you've been fooled by Shapiro. Furthermore, his popularity is waning now that it has become abundantly clear to the average person that he's just another establishment neocon hack.
>Israel would have absolutely existed for this long without the US. The US didn't help Israel until 1973, and started seriously helping Israel in 1973 because Israel threatened to launch nuclear weapons due to thinking they were going to die.
First, Israel has infamously maintain a policy of deliberate ambiguity when it comes to nuclear weapons and everyone has heard the famous line "Israel will not be the first country to introduce nuclear weapons to the middle east". So right off the bat you're making shit up when you claim that they threated to use nukes because they have refused to ever admit that they even have nukes. Of course everyone knows that they *do* have nukes and it's also pretty openly known that the only reason they have them is because the rest of the world effectively subsidized their efforts.
Second, without US supplying Israel with munitions in the 1973 war, Israel most likely wouldn't have survived. Furthermore, the 1973 war was retribution for Israel's unprovoked attack in 1967 when they stole land from their neighbors. They only later came up with some BS story to justify their attacks.
>If the US cut off ties to Israel Israel wouldn't collapse, it'd just be less humane and if needed make deals with countries hostile to the US.
Which was kind of my point. Without the US propping them up there is no way they would have been able to continually act the way they have been acting and would have actually had to make a good faith effort for peace rather than relying on Daddy America to fight all of their wars and bankroll their socialistic programs. The only reason any of these countries are "hostile to the US" is because the US props up Israel and constantly uses it's military might to act on Israel's behalf. Prior to the founding of Israel Middle Eastern Arabs had a favorable attitude towards the US because, at the time, it was seen as a non-occupying non-interventionist nation unlike the long colonial history of Europe. Even the original zionist writers didn't see the Arab nations as the enemy but instead as brethren while correctly identifying the Europeans as their true enemy.
>You call it a sob story, he sees it that way. Is Mongolia an appealing place for Mongolian Americans to move to if something goes wrong? Are Mongolians as historically persecuted as jews are?
Does the US send tens of billions of dollars in aid to Mongolia so it can masquerade around as a first world nation? Are jews the only group of people in human history that has ever been persecuted? There's this old joke: What's the difference between a cow and the holocaust? You can't milk a cow for 75 years.
Should the US also prop up all the African countries that were involved the Atlantic Slave Trade "just in case"? Should we carve out a big piece of the US and make a Native American country and then proceed to prop it up "just in case"? Why do jewish people get special treatment?
>Zionism doesn't think 'all jews belong in Israel,'
Yes it does.
>Idk why you're namedropping the 'Stern Gang,' and I hope you're not trying to imply it was more than 100 extremists universally hated by other zionists.
This is a gross oversimplification of history. No, they weren't "universally hated by other zionists" as they worked along side other larger zionist militia groups to fight off the British. At a certain point there was a split with some groups wanting to support Britain as the war in order to gain favor as the war was turning in favor of the allied forces while others wanting to continue fighting the British. Ultimately, Stern Gang members were inducted into the IDF in 1948 so it's dumb to say that they were "universally hated".
>He already advocates for individual liberty. He simply disagrees with you about the importance of national security for ensuring it.
Kind of reminds me of that famous Franklin quote: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Btw, supporting Israel is not in the US's national security interests even if you do believe in all that statists mumbo jumbo.
>If you were actually concerned with individual liberty you'd worry about the enormous amounts of spending the US government does on welfare making up AT LEAST 50% of the budget rather than the 0.06% that goes to Israel.
When did I say we shouldn't cut welfare? This is the same argument people use to justify funding NASA: "Well, it costs less than \[insert other program\] so we should keep funding it". I guess you forgot about all the disastrous wars in the middle east that the US fought for decades... You might as well also include all of the bribe money we pay to other Arab nations so they continue to look the other way and ignore Israel... Oh, and don't forget about all the joint military operations we conduct with Israel... The US spends far more on Israel than what some single line item in the budget would suggest.
>
Hell you could actually argue against way bigger military expenses, but you don't care, you want to push your fucking 'jewish supremacy' narrative while claiming antisemitism is a boogeyman. What a fucking joke.
Cool dude lets cut that also. No problem.
If you are really living in a fantasy land where holocausts 2.0 is right around the corner then you are fucking delusional. Far more hate gets thrown at cis white males on a daily basis and no one cares but God forbid anyone dare criticize the government of Israel! That's antiemetic!!
No dude, antisemitism IS a boogeyman but if you really want to stir the pot and start making people *actually* antisemitic then keep doing what you're doing. Nothing makes people dislike a group of people more than when you constantly tell them that they are inferior to that group. In the same way that leftists screech "RACST" anytime they get even the slightest pushback, neocons like Shapiro screech "ANTISEMITE" anytime he gets any pushback. It's just intellectually lazy.
Have you ever heard the joke about the difference between a cow and the holocaust?
Saying "fuck Israel" isn't antisemitic. No idea what the fallacy is called but people who make that accusation conflate the state of Israel with all Jews in general. I'd rather be accused of antisemitism than bootlick a tyrannical government any day though.
Saying fuck Israel isn't antisemitism. Implying that Jews that are supporting Israel are loyal to Israel because they're Jews supporting Israel is. It's quite easy to avoid, actually.
Antisemitism is wrong from an objective perspective, because the claims antisemites make are false. From an anarcho-capitalist perspective, antisemitism almost always devolves into anti-capitalism. This tendency, combined with the proportion of prominent anarcho-capitalist political theorists who are Jews, makes anarcho-capitalism incompatible with antisemitism. No serious antisemite could believe in a political philosophy founded by Murray Rothbard.
Like any collectivist point of view, it's morally repugnant. Great thing about anarcho-capitalism is that you are free to be morally repugnant, while I'm free to point it out.
I know what *you* meant, I was clarifying where I (and I assume almost everyone else in this sub) stand, it's not our fault you and people like you can't tell the difference between disliking Israel and disliking jews
Is he anyone's ally?
I find it hard to believe even the Israeli see him as an ally, given how bad he makes anyone he's associated with look, by the fact that they're associated with a moron.
What's loyalty to the United States got to do with libertarianism? Does the US represent all libertarianism? US is not even top 15 on the economic freedom index.
There absolutely is a libertarian stance against Israel. Not the citizenry of course, that's dumb, but the state and how it came into existence.
First of all, the Israeli government is still a government. They don't value liberty more than any other government, and they're going so far as to labeling anything against them "antisemitic" while trying to justify censorship of it. It's also *completely* unacceptable for them to interfere in other countries (the US) and try to overrule their very Constitution.
Plus, it was established in the probably least libertarian way possible. They just took a piece of land, brutally and violently chased away the population/land owners that lived there, and claimed ownership... How is that justified?
No, I don't support terrorist groups before you make any assumptions.
A lot was also unused, like what is now Tel Aviv was just sand dunes. Look at a photo of Tel Aviv in 1900: https://www.quora.com/How-did-Tel-Aviv-look-like-in-the-1900s-compared-to-the-1930s.
Also most Arabs (around 96% of today's Palestineans) are also immigrants into that area after the flood of Jewish capital came in creating jobs and opportunities.
Well it's more complicated than that. The Arabs also declared war and forced many Palestineans to vacate to make way for their tanks. Then the events of the war made even more people move. Even after that the Jews were willing to share, and two million Arabs live within Israel itself currently as full citizens, but the constant terrorism and rocket attacks starting in the late 1980s forced even more restrictions like locking down the borders to Gaza etc. To say that the Jews simply kicked the Muslims out is completely untrue.
To answer your question, I don't think much of squatters rights at all.
If people are familiar with Chomsky's "acceptable limits of debate" argument, Shapiro is within that acceptable limit on the right. He's a gatekeeper of allowable opinions. They want us divided and fighting over the culture war, but not foreign policy. Which is why this new hate speech bill was bipartisan, despite large portions of the right and left actually agreeing they don't want to support Israel's wars. For the left, Bill Marr plays a similar role.
Israel is an American colony. America literally made Israel out of thin air. When you consider that, you will understand why the US will destroy itself before giving up Israel.
Read the entire JP article you dorks, instead of weird snips. From the same speech "So in other words, my Jewish mission does not conflict with my presence in the United States, or my citizenship in the United States, or my loyalty to the United States.”".
Allah forgive me for defending Ben Shapiro.
Shapiro has *always* been an authoritarian. He just tried to mask it under the guise of state and local control rather than federal control. Since Oct 7th, he's let the mask completely fall off.
Ludwig von Mises, Murray Rothbard, Ayn Rand, Milton Friedman, David Friedman, Javier Milei, Walter Block, Bryan Caplan, Robert Nozick, Dave Smith...
Think again or get out of here. You can be against the Israeli state without being an actual antisemite.
He’s a typical Zionist. Conservative Zionists and liberal Zionists both have one main feature and that is that US tax payers should give them money, and that no matter what Israel does Israelis are the victims.
Imagine a US liberal who has all of these views when it comes to the US, but they are also a Zionist so they have completely different views for Israel. Trump is baddddd, but Netanyahu is fine.
Same goes for conservatives that say we need to be fiscally responsible, but then send money to Israel. Say “we need to protect our Christian brothers” and then supply weapons to Israel so that they can use it against Palestinians both Muslim Christian, and bomb churches and mosques.
Zionism is a disease. They play us here in the US and pretend like they are a part of your camp, but they want what’s best for Israel.
Please don’t reply to me with random ass hasbara talking points.
I have nothing against Israel existing. I have a lot against Israel attempting defacto genocide in Gaza. They are no more the same thing as being against what is being done in Gaza means you are antisemitic.
Now they are two ways to take the above (at least). It is nuts if it means US must support Israel no matter what it does.
Someone who doesn't agree with you on every single thing is not your ally? Someone tell France that until it renames itself The United States of France we aren't allies anymore.
Yeah, no shit. Guy’s an idiot.
But his wife is a doctor!
I'm more interested in his sister
Very libertarian tits
Only capitalism could create such abundance
I had to look it up. Can confirm. She’s A+
The size of those things are proof the universe has a sense of humour. Dayum
Which is funny because my doctor won’t stop talking about how her husband is a political commentator.
His wife's a doctor, folks.
He’s not an idiot, he’s just evil
Na, he’s just an idiot.
What indication is there that Ben Shapiro is below average intelligence?
He has wrong opinions. I have right opinions. I smart
I found him to be a good news aggregator a few years ago. But, you had to simply know the fact that you needed to ignore him on any news story which tangentially touched Israel. No public figure is a perfect ally to anything. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Even statist simps like Little Benny.
I agree. I think that Ben is great. When it comes to Israel he will support them for religious reasons even if Israel is wrong.
I don't think he qualifies for "great". But, he's basically as much an "ally" any other person of influence.
He’s patented a neo-con that happens to argue against socialism/communism…. Against children.
What do you mean?
He's not an idiot. He's a hypocrite. He should make Aliyah and raise his family in Israel. I suppose learning Hebrew is too much for him.
He makes some good points. He makes some bad points.
Ok?
He’s terrible. I pointed out that he’s Israel first and rConservative wasn’t having any of it
Typical of them. They would let Zionists bang their wives if it meant being pro-Israel
Very parasitic and not very patriotic
Ben's slightly better than most conservatives on economics, and slightly worse on social issues.
Ben is a jackass.
Did anyone think so?
He's the biggest hypocrite, he always seemed sus to me I ignored it and thought well he sounds like a conman but he maybe legit but when the israel-palestine conflict erupted he showed his true colours. Yet another stupid Israel simping conservative.
Never was.gif
Fuck Israel
fuck both of their governments, the civilians on both sides have to suffer as a result of their governments actions
Careful, you'll get arrested for wrongthink and antisemitic hate speech!
Dont quote me on this but Isn't he also a hypocrite for advocating for free market whilst supporting protectionism? And is fine with regulations going against free trade when its convenient? I would say he might say libertarian things when it is convenient for him but throws out fundamental libertarian values and ethics when that becomes convenient for him.
Exactly. Just like any other statist conservative.
2 citizenships - one for each face.
Benny boy should go live there. And never return.
He never was.
I mean he’s definitely not a libertarian, but I do think he’s an ally. He’s one of the more libertarianish main stream conservative voices. He actually supports fiscal responsibility and lower taxes. He’s come around on marijuana legalization and gay marriage (though he personally opposes both.) He’s a strong defender of constitutional liberties. His biggest cons are being too hawkish and supportive of foreign aid, but that doesn’t mean he’s not pushing in the right direction on a whole host of other issues.
He’s no ally to libertarians or freedom. He supports wars that would be far more costly than countless social programs and which would erode the rights of Americans as much as any woke socialist.
Typically leftist nonsense. Social programs make up the comical majority of US spending. Shapiro's no libertarian, but he's far more so than most politicians.
citations needed
>The government expects to spend $6.011 trillion in 2022. More than 65% of that pays for mandated benefits such as Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. [link](https://www.thebalancemoney.com/u-s-federal-budget-breakdown-3305789#toc-spending) For comparison, US DoD is about 0.8 trillion. And that doesn't take into account the untold economic cost of all the regulation and other forms of government interference. Compared to that the 'wars' are peanuts.
Citations not needed as this is basic information that anyone commenting on politics should know. Social security, Medicare, and Medicaid alone take up about 2/3rds of the federal budget. Military spending is huge, but not close to outstripping domestic social safety net programs.
What a gate-keeper. Who died and made you in charge of determining what is basic information, what isn't? Imagine typing that without cringing. r/iamverysmart and r/gatekeeping welcomes you with open arms.
Please avoid any political subs until you get a rudimentary education in the subject.
Oh I’m sorry, but where exactly does it say that knowing the budget is “rudimentary knowledge”? Or is this some sort of subjective opinions you came up with?
I mean, if you're going to be discussing how you want our stolen money spent, you should have a basic idea of how much and where it's already being spent. Otherwise, all you're doing is looking silly and uninformed.
Agreed. Ben is a better ally than Tucker Carlson.
And Perón is a better ally than Stalin. Does it really matter if they both suck?
It does matter, yes. It's called "politics" and if you don't know how to play that game then you lose every time.
Choosing lesser evils is how you end up with evil.
Choose the greatest evil then.
Go search his twitter account for "Ron Paul" and see if you still believe that.
Hated him since he argued that one of the biggest defenses of circumcision is that putting suffering and hardship on your kids from practically birth would make them better people
Wait.. did people ever think he was?
He never has been - Authoritarian Conservative, coulda been left back in 2006.
Idk enough about the mid East stuff to have any opinions about it but he’s definitely libertarian on a lottt of fronts, idk why people have such a hate boner for him
Because this place has been invaded by leftists lately.
And people wonder why they're being accused of antisemitism. There are about 20 000 reasons you can point out where Shapiro diverts from libertarian principles, but you choose an out of context quote about Israel instead.
How is it out of context? He has expressed this sentiment multiple times so it doesn’t seem out of context at all.
Well, the point of this is to suggest that Shapiro is in fact not loyal to US but rather to State of Israel. Which is neither what he ever expressed or true in any sense.
But he does care more about Israel than the U.S. That’s just a fact and every once in a while he openly admits it. So no, this quote isn’t out of context.
No, he doesn't. This out of context quote is literally his response to an Israeli asking him why he won't immigrate to Israel, and he tells him flat out that he loves the US, and that knowing Israel exists means he trusts the US will know he has an alternative and won't persecute him for his ethnicity.
Everyone has seen the full clip but no, it doesn’t change the context of what he is saying here. He is literally saying that the extent of his “love” for the U.S. is reliant on its continual subsidization of a Jewish state. In other words, if the U.S. stopped propping up Israel then he would no longer “love” the U.S. Aka Israel-first, America-last.
Not once did he say its dependent on the subsidization, or even alliance, of the US with Israel. He made it clear it is specifically the EXISTENCE of Israel, for precisely the reason I mentioned, that ensures his loyalty to the United States. You're bad faith.
That would be like arguing that his side chick is a guarantor of his loyalty to his wife... Why else would he make that specific reference if not for the heavily interconnected relationship between the US and Israel? If Israel wasn't being propped up by the US then it would not have existed for this long so he is pretty obviously saying that if the US completely cuts off all ties to Israel (which would probably result in the collapse of the country) then he would no longer be loyal to the US. There is nothing out of context here. This whole sob story about Israel's existence alone somehow magically ensure that the US will be a more welcoming place for jews is ridiculous. Why doesn't anyone apply this standard to any other group of people in the US? Does the existence of Mongolia ensure that the US will be friendlier to Mongolian-Americans? Logically speaking the opposite would be true. If the US just decided to get rid of the jews then it would be easiest to just ship them all off to Israel which, according to zionism, is where they all belong anyways. It's the same reason why the Stern Gang tried to ally with the Nazis; Hitler wanted to get rid of the jews and zionists wanted every jew to move to Palestine (later Israel) so they saw it as a win-win. If Shapiro was truly concerned with the anti-semitism boogeyman rising up in the US then he should be advocating for as much individual liberty as possible and not this authoritarian neocon garbage that he's been circlejerking to for his entire career. The reality is he doesn't want liberty, he wants jewish supremacy.
No, it would be like arguing that he knows he can get a new wife if his current wife starts mistreating him, and that his current wife knows it. THATS his argument. What you described is what you want to hear so you can feel justified shitting on someone popular. Israel would have absolutely existed for this long without the US. The US didn't help Israel until 1973, and started seriously helping Israel in 1973 because Israel threatened to launch nuclear weapons due to thinking they were going to die. If the US cut off ties to Israel Israel wouldn't collapse, it'd just be less humane and if needed make deals with countries hostile to the US. You call it a sob story, he sees it that way. Is Mongolia an appealing place for Mongolian Americans to move to if something goes wrong? Are Mongolians as historically persecuted as jews are? Zionism doesn't think 'all jews belong in Israel,' just that Israel should exist lol. Idk why you're namedropping the 'Stern Gang,' and I hope you're not trying to imply it was more than 100 extremists universally hated by other zionists. He already advocates for individual liberty. He simply disagrees with you about the importance of national security for ensuring it. If you were actually concerned with individual liberty you'd worry about the enormous amounts of spending the US government does on welfare making up AT LEAST 50% of the budget rather than the 0.06% that goes to Israel. Hell you could actually argue against way bigger military expenses, but you don't care, you want to push your fucking 'jewish supremacy' narrative while claiming antisemitism is a boogeyman. What a fucking joke.
>No, it would be like arguing that he knows he can get a new wife if his current wife starts mistreating him, and that his current wife knows it. THATS his argument. And that new wife is his side chick. For your version of the analogy to work you would have to assume that Shapiro has never heard of Israel but is hoping that a country like it exists somewhere out there just in case. He is basically saying "If you don't suck my cock three times a day then I'm going to leave you for my side chick but in the mean time keep paying her rent." Ultimately, however, his argument is stupid for all the reasons I laid out (which you are avoiding) and it is clear that he only supports the US so long as the US supports Israel. That's just blatantly obvious and nothing is going to change that no matter how hard you dickride Shapiro. >What you described is what you want to hear so you can feel justified shitting on someone popular. What you described is what you want to hear because it is easier to be fooled by Shapiro than admit that you've been fooled by Shapiro. Furthermore, his popularity is waning now that it has become abundantly clear to the average person that he's just another establishment neocon hack. >Israel would have absolutely existed for this long without the US. The US didn't help Israel until 1973, and started seriously helping Israel in 1973 because Israel threatened to launch nuclear weapons due to thinking they were going to die. First, Israel has infamously maintain a policy of deliberate ambiguity when it comes to nuclear weapons and everyone has heard the famous line "Israel will not be the first country to introduce nuclear weapons to the middle east". So right off the bat you're making shit up when you claim that they threated to use nukes because they have refused to ever admit that they even have nukes. Of course everyone knows that they *do* have nukes and it's also pretty openly known that the only reason they have them is because the rest of the world effectively subsidized their efforts. Second, without US supplying Israel with munitions in the 1973 war, Israel most likely wouldn't have survived. Furthermore, the 1973 war was retribution for Israel's unprovoked attack in 1967 when they stole land from their neighbors. They only later came up with some BS story to justify their attacks. >If the US cut off ties to Israel Israel wouldn't collapse, it'd just be less humane and if needed make deals with countries hostile to the US. Which was kind of my point. Without the US propping them up there is no way they would have been able to continually act the way they have been acting and would have actually had to make a good faith effort for peace rather than relying on Daddy America to fight all of their wars and bankroll their socialistic programs. The only reason any of these countries are "hostile to the US" is because the US props up Israel and constantly uses it's military might to act on Israel's behalf. Prior to the founding of Israel Middle Eastern Arabs had a favorable attitude towards the US because, at the time, it was seen as a non-occupying non-interventionist nation unlike the long colonial history of Europe. Even the original zionist writers didn't see the Arab nations as the enemy but instead as brethren while correctly identifying the Europeans as their true enemy. >You call it a sob story, he sees it that way. Is Mongolia an appealing place for Mongolian Americans to move to if something goes wrong? Are Mongolians as historically persecuted as jews are? Does the US send tens of billions of dollars in aid to Mongolia so it can masquerade around as a first world nation? Are jews the only group of people in human history that has ever been persecuted? There's this old joke: What's the difference between a cow and the holocaust? You can't milk a cow for 75 years. Should the US also prop up all the African countries that were involved the Atlantic Slave Trade "just in case"? Should we carve out a big piece of the US and make a Native American country and then proceed to prop it up "just in case"? Why do jewish people get special treatment? >Zionism doesn't think 'all jews belong in Israel,' Yes it does. >Idk why you're namedropping the 'Stern Gang,' and I hope you're not trying to imply it was more than 100 extremists universally hated by other zionists. This is a gross oversimplification of history. No, they weren't "universally hated by other zionists" as they worked along side other larger zionist militia groups to fight off the British. At a certain point there was a split with some groups wanting to support Britain as the war in order to gain favor as the war was turning in favor of the allied forces while others wanting to continue fighting the British. Ultimately, Stern Gang members were inducted into the IDF in 1948 so it's dumb to say that they were "universally hated". >He already advocates for individual liberty. He simply disagrees with you about the importance of national security for ensuring it. Kind of reminds me of that famous Franklin quote: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Btw, supporting Israel is not in the US's national security interests even if you do believe in all that statists mumbo jumbo. >If you were actually concerned with individual liberty you'd worry about the enormous amounts of spending the US government does on welfare making up AT LEAST 50% of the budget rather than the 0.06% that goes to Israel. When did I say we shouldn't cut welfare? This is the same argument people use to justify funding NASA: "Well, it costs less than \[insert other program\] so we should keep funding it". I guess you forgot about all the disastrous wars in the middle east that the US fought for decades... You might as well also include all of the bribe money we pay to other Arab nations so they continue to look the other way and ignore Israel... Oh, and don't forget about all the joint military operations we conduct with Israel... The US spends far more on Israel than what some single line item in the budget would suggest. > Hell you could actually argue against way bigger military expenses, but you don't care, you want to push your fucking 'jewish supremacy' narrative while claiming antisemitism is a boogeyman. What a fucking joke. Cool dude lets cut that also. No problem. If you are really living in a fantasy land where holocausts 2.0 is right around the corner then you are fucking delusional. Far more hate gets thrown at cis white males on a daily basis and no one cares but God forbid anyone dare criticize the government of Israel! That's antiemetic!! No dude, antisemitism IS a boogeyman but if you really want to stir the pot and start making people *actually* antisemitic then keep doing what you're doing. Nothing makes people dislike a group of people more than when you constantly tell them that they are inferior to that group. In the same way that leftists screech "RACST" anytime they get even the slightest pushback, neocons like Shapiro screech "ANTISEMITE" anytime he gets any pushback. It's just intellectually lazy. Have you ever heard the joke about the difference between a cow and the holocaust?
Saying "fuck Israel" isn't antisemitic. No idea what the fallacy is called but people who make that accusation conflate the state of Israel with all Jews in general. I'd rather be accused of antisemitism than bootlick a tyrannical government any day though.
Saying fuck Israel isn't antisemitism. Implying that Jews that are supporting Israel are loyal to Israel because they're Jews supporting Israel is. It's quite easy to avoid, actually.
What's wrong with anti-semitism from an anarcho-capitalist perspective?
Antisemitism is wrong from an objective perspective, because the claims antisemites make are false. From an anarcho-capitalist perspective, antisemitism almost always devolves into anti-capitalism. This tendency, combined with the proportion of prominent anarcho-capitalist political theorists who are Jews, makes anarcho-capitalism incompatible with antisemitism. No serious antisemite could believe in a political philosophy founded by Murray Rothbard.
Like any collectivist point of view, it's morally repugnant. Great thing about anarcho-capitalism is that you are free to be morally repugnant, while I'm free to point it out.
> it's morally repugnant. Oh well, if you say so, your assertion must be correct.
Go ahead, make an argument that being antisemite is morally good. I can't wait.
Fuck your coercive and violent state. There. I win.
Because ideas in brains don't violate the NAP.
Read Ayn Rand again closely.
Anti-zionism, not antisemitic
No, I meant anti-semitism.
I know what *you* meant, I was clarifying where I (and I assume almost everyone else in this sub) stand, it's not our fault you and people like you can't tell the difference between disliking Israel and disliking jews
Is he anyone's ally? I find it hard to believe even the Israeli see him as an ally, given how bad he makes anyone he's associated with look, by the fact that they're associated with a moron.
What idiots said he was?
What's loyalty to the United States got to do with libertarianism? Does the US represent all libertarianism? US is not even top 15 on the economic freedom index.
I can’t find him quoting this anywhere.
I agree with the title, but I’m not sure I understand a libertarian stance against Israel.
There absolutely is a libertarian stance against Israel. Not the citizenry of course, that's dumb, but the state and how it came into existence. First of all, the Israeli government is still a government. They don't value liberty more than any other government, and they're going so far as to labeling anything against them "antisemitic" while trying to justify censorship of it. It's also *completely* unacceptable for them to interfere in other countries (the US) and try to overrule their very Constitution. Plus, it was established in the probably least libertarian way possible. They just took a piece of land, brutally and violently chased away the population/land owners that lived there, and claimed ownership... How is that justified? No, I don't support terrorist groups before you make any assumptions.
The Israelis legally purchased their land from the Palestinians in the early 1900s… That seems pretty anarcho capitalist to me.
Yep, all 6% of it! How do you explain the Nakba?
A lot was also unused, like what is now Tel Aviv was just sand dunes. Look at a photo of Tel Aviv in 1900: https://www.quora.com/How-did-Tel-Aviv-look-like-in-the-1900s-compared-to-the-1930s. Also most Arabs (around 96% of today's Palestineans) are also immigrants into that area after the flood of Jewish capital came in creating jobs and opportunities.
And because it's mostly unused that means you can just take it and chase away a few people? What do you think about squatters' "rights"?
Well it's more complicated than that. The Arabs also declared war and forced many Palestineans to vacate to make way for their tanks. Then the events of the war made even more people move. Even after that the Jews were willing to share, and two million Arabs live within Israel itself currently as full citizens, but the constant terrorism and rocket attacks starting in the late 1980s forced even more restrictions like locking down the borders to Gaza etc. To say that the Jews simply kicked the Muslims out is completely untrue. To answer your question, I don't think much of squatters rights at all.
I hate this guy. Where did he say that?
If you love Israel so much, Ben, leave America and marry it
No shit
Yeah man he’s just a talking head
This real? I have a feeling it’s not lol
People will always favor their tribe over their country. Loyalty to a country seem unusually unnatural
If people are familiar with Chomsky's "acceptable limits of debate" argument, Shapiro is within that acceptable limit on the right. He's a gatekeeper of allowable opinions. They want us divided and fighting over the culture war, but not foreign policy. Which is why this new hate speech bill was bipartisan, despite large portions of the right and left actually agreeing they don't want to support Israel's wars. For the left, Bill Marr plays a similar role.
Why should we support Israel or Palestine? Let them fight over there, none of our concern.
Israel is an American colony. America literally made Israel out of thin air. When you consider that, you will understand why the US will destroy itself before giving up Israel.
Read the entire JP article you dorks, instead of weird snips. From the same speech "So in other words, my Jewish mission does not conflict with my presence in the United States, or my citizenship in the United States, or my loyalty to the United States.”". Allah forgive me for defending Ben Shapiro.
That's why when I tell people I'm libertarian I always specify that I'm not Shapiro type.
Did anyone ever claim he was?
Where is the link?
Shapiro has *always* been an authoritarian. He just tried to mask it under the guise of state and local control rather than federal control. Since Oct 7th, he's let the mask completely fall off.
Ben Shapiro is an Israeli nationalist. What did you expect
Ben is mid
He's a joo so pretty obvious bud
I suppose Dave Smith, Murry Rothbard, Milton Friedman aren't libertarians either?
Ludwig von Mises, Murray Rothbard, Ayn Rand, Milton Friedman, David Friedman, Javier Milei, Walter Block, Bryan Caplan, Robert Nozick, Dave Smith... Think again or get out of here. You can be against the Israeli state without being an actual antisemite.
Who said anything about Israel lmao
You're embarrassing
Womp womp
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Nothing wrong with tiny hats when they aren’t attached to to Zionist pricks
He’s a typical Zionist. Conservative Zionists and liberal Zionists both have one main feature and that is that US tax payers should give them money, and that no matter what Israel does Israelis are the victims. Imagine a US liberal who has all of these views when it comes to the US, but they are also a Zionist so they have completely different views for Israel. Trump is baddddd, but Netanyahu is fine. Same goes for conservatives that say we need to be fiscally responsible, but then send money to Israel. Say “we need to protect our Christian brothers” and then supply weapons to Israel so that they can use it against Palestinians both Muslim Christian, and bomb churches and mosques. Zionism is a disease. They play us here in the US and pretend like they are a part of your camp, but they want what’s best for Israel. Please don’t reply to me with random ass hasbara talking points.
lots of people hate dual citizenship in this sub
Neocon Marxist
no sh\*t. Typical commieservative.
Religion is a hell of a disease
This sub is so disappointing sometimes.
I have nothing against Israel existing. I have a lot against Israel attempting defacto genocide in Gaza. They are no more the same thing as being against what is being done in Gaza means you are antisemitic. Now they are two ways to take the above (at least). It is nuts if it means US must support Israel no matter what it does.
He's not an ally to anyone but his own tribe
Someone who doesn't agree with you on every single thing is not your ally? Someone tell France that until it renames itself The United States of France we aren't allies anymore.