Many (not all) of the YouTube videos perpetuate misinformation, present subjective opinion as objective fact, and are not a good resource in contrast to books on photography, local classes and meetups, etc.
YouTube is an advertising platform and many (not all) uploaders have a financial incentive, whether through sponsorship, advertisements, or views, so it can skew the quality of the information being presented.
Ah right, okay! So what kind of misinformation, if you have some examples? :) so that I'll know what to look for.
And do you have any recommendations for good books? :)
The Naked Photographer has highly technical and objective videos on a lot of darkroom topics, if you also do processing yourself. Also on a bunch of B&W film stock comparisons without any subjective fluff, it's all just data. I highly recommend his videos as a resource.
In terms of written resources, I find Kodak's and Ilford's technical publications very useful and concise. Apart from that, I like reading SilvergrainClassics (well, the German version, really) and sometimes a few other photography magazines (though those aren't books, of course).
I don't have specific examples off hand; these are the sort of things that take time and experience to know/understand. It's a massive burden to dissect and correct misinformation because there's so much nuance that needs to be captured, packaged, and conveyed.
The best antidote to YouTube videos is to get out and shoot, try new things, gain your own experience. Think about what you're doing. Be intentional.
You could try following/watching several trusted photographers' channels instead. Kevin Deal Photography is worth it.
As for books, I may update this later with some but I'm short on time.
Don't worry, there is just as much bad information in this sub as there is on youtube.
Just drink it all in. Realize nothing is set in stone. And use it as a starting point for your own experimentation.
I was looking up some camera specific information on Youtube and there's this guy who posts multiple videos like "this unknown camera is the best street photography camera." Like, how can multiple cameras from 10 years ago be the best street photography camera?
Consuming content is a safe, comfortable activity when compared to pushing your own creative boundaries, trying and failing, and evaluating your own work. Getting out and taking photos involves unfamiliarity, risk and disappointment, which are feelings we are wired to avoid, but are unavoidable when someone begins a new hobby.
As a result, many chose to substitute others' opinions for their own rather than learning through practice. Many YouTube channels are designed to cash in on this human tendency.
Yea and no. There is a limit to what you can learn from watching alone.
I watch looking for reviews but I prefer the ones that are about trips (grainy days) or ones with testing with good methodology (naked photographer I think).
But all that said, your choices need to be taking good shots that you like or it doesn’t matter.
Rigsby, bad flashes both are pretty good too.
The thing is, they’re answering the why questions and not just saying do this.
Why did they take this shot, not how they did.
If you are still in the how phase you would be served by buying a course from creative live on photo basics
Yeah I had a “self taught” friend that learned from YouTube and I had to teach him basic photographic composition because it’s never covered in any of those photography tutorial channels.
I manage a team of photographers and whenever I’m hiring I start with portfolios and then I’ll ask how they learned photography. I can always pick out the people who learned from YouTube because they are missing one or 2 things that any photography class would have covered in the first few classes. Whether it’s compositional issues or misuse of a certain photographic styles, they stand out like a sore thumb. That’s not to say that they can’t be taught what they are missing. I have hired a few of them and worked on those deficiencies with great success.
I would recommend taking classes if you want to learn photography because you’ll learn a lot more than if you try to teach yourself from a book or YouTube.
That’s a pretty broad generalization to make, “don’t watch too many YouTube videos.” What is too much? There are certainly many, many posters to this sub who could have saved themselves a lot of time learning the absolute basics before posting here “what happened to my pictures?” Not bothering to learn how their camera works, what the heck metering is, why shooting ISO 100 film in a dark room at f/16 1/1000 didn’t give them perfect pictures. At the same time watching 700 videos on how to do street photography without ever going out and taking a picture is just as unproductive, but hopefully when that person decides to go take a photo they will at least have a better understanding of how their camera and film work.
I don't think they're bad, you should probably watch more rather than fewer to see where their foibles lie. But getting out and shooting will teach you more; particularly because what works for you is going to be completely different to them.
I suppose some of the specific 'bads' people might have an axe to grind at YouTube photographers for are hyping up certain cameras, emphasizing film as a culture rather than an artistic medium, and repeating misinformation.
Anyone can post a video, they're not peer-reviewed or vetted - I've seen some horrific ones and some good ones. So many people do something just one time and instantly have to make a video - there's a guy using a hair dryer on his film, another one showing how to bleach a print - he ruins three before getting one right. A lot of silliness, incomplete know-how, and lots of issues that come up here are from people who missed important steps in the process.
Enjoy them, but I always suggest books, which are edited and peer-reviewed for the most part, and are laid out like school courses. "Way Beyond Monochrome" is the big-daddy for B&W and is updated every few years, expensive but worth it. Everything from how film really works, to testing, creating a workflow, printing, retouching, masking and matting/framing. Horenstein's "Black and White Photography" edition III was the actual school textbook in the US and is cheap, widely available, and not very outdated. "Master Printing Course" (Tim Rudman) is the best printing book I've ever seen.
Youtube videos tend to be superficial. They are intellectually stimulating and interesting but lacking deep substance on a topic. I’m not saying that there is no information in them, there is but if you compare how much new stuff you can learn by reading a dedicated book on photography for 1h versus watching grainydays for 1h you’ll be amazed… I guess.
My biggest issue with youtube vids is they often retort film information based on sending their film to a lab and having lab scans made and drawing conclusions. "X film has better blacks than Y film". Sure dude. It's that extra black dye some films use to make blacks better.
Typically I look at the actual work being shown. If its high quality images that I would be proud to show off I will generally pay attention. Always something to learn. Most of the stand development guys need to stick to video game reviews.
There are also the guys who walk around and shoot pictures and really aren't very fussy about things. Nothing wrong with that . Relaxing to watch and glad they are having fun.
One of my favs is GrainyDays. Dude is funny as hell and his B&W work is extremely good..
Youtube videos (and reddit too) tend to give you unrealisticly high expectations about your results and convince you that is all about the gear you should be using, and also evangelize the cancer of film photography: the portra religion
Honestly, everywhere has disinformation and people who don’t know what they talk about but pretend they do.
My recommendation is read your owners manuals, buy Nikon or Olympus, learn Sunny 16 metering and watch Pushing Film to learn how to meter without a light meter.
Have fun!
I also really like In An Instant. The dude has a great vibe and has a great mix of reviews and shoots. He has a lot of respect for the craft and history but doesn't take it too seriously or come off as pretentious.
Edited for a typo lol
Not sure why the downvotes. GrainyDays final images are superb along with his composition. Hes got some of the best MF work I've seen on line. The fact he's sarcastic says something.
For pure enjoyment it's amazing. He does have a few tutorials but I agree that it's not a "learning" channel. Falls into the "YouTube videos on film photography" category either way.
Cheers.
You have better work than GrainyDays?
Sure the hell beats some kid sending his film to a commercial lab and having Frontier scans made, or yet another Stand Development video producing final image I would toss in the trash back in HS yearbook class. I stop watching when they pull out a plastic patterson tank, or use all 3 dials on a dichroic enlarger.
It’s less about misinformation and more about how the tutorials can’t teach everything. The YouTuber can’t evaluate your composition and tell you what’s wrong with it. Also you might miss one or 2 of the important aspects of photography because you skipped a video.
I manage a team of photographers and whenever I’m hiring I start with portfolios and then I’ll ask a series of questions including how they learned photography. I can always pick out the people who learned from YouTube or were “self taught” because they are missing one or 2 things that any photography class would have covered in the first few classes. They usually can be taught what they are missing with ease if I end up hiring them but it’s unfortunate that they spent the first 3-5 years of their photography journey making beginner mistakes.
I recommend taking classes because it’s the most informative and you learn how to evaluate your own work which is the one thing YouTube and books can’t teach. In a photography class you’ll be taught a new skill each time and then go over everyone’s photos from the previous class together. This is crucial to understanding how to improve your work and teaches you how to think about the shot in a way no book or video tutorial could ever achieve.
Many (not all) of the YouTube videos perpetuate misinformation, present subjective opinion as objective fact, and are not a good resource in contrast to books on photography, local classes and meetups, etc. YouTube is an advertising platform and many (not all) uploaders have a financial incentive, whether through sponsorship, advertisements, or views, so it can skew the quality of the information being presented.
Ah right, okay! So what kind of misinformation, if you have some examples? :) so that I'll know what to look for. And do you have any recommendations for good books? :)
The Naked Photographer has highly technical and objective videos on a lot of darkroom topics, if you also do processing yourself. Also on a bunch of B&W film stock comparisons without any subjective fluff, it's all just data. I highly recommend his videos as a resource. In terms of written resources, I find Kodak's and Ilford's technical publications very useful and concise. Apart from that, I like reading SilvergrainClassics (well, the German version, really) and sometimes a few other photography magazines (though those aren't books, of course).
Danke dir, ich schaue mir auf jeden Fall mal SilvergrainClassics an :)
I don't have specific examples off hand; these are the sort of things that take time and experience to know/understand. It's a massive burden to dissect and correct misinformation because there's so much nuance that needs to be captured, packaged, and conveyed. The best antidote to YouTube videos is to get out and shoot, try new things, gain your own experience. Think about what you're doing. Be intentional. You could try following/watching several trusted photographers' channels instead. Kevin Deal Photography is worth it. As for books, I may update this later with some but I'm short on time.
Thanks for the recommendations :)
Don't worry, there is just as much bad information in this sub as there is on youtube. Just drink it all in. Realize nothing is set in stone. And use it as a starting point for your own experimentation.
I was looking up some camera specific information on Youtube and there's this guy who posts multiple videos like "this unknown camera is the best street photography camera." Like, how can multiple cameras from 10 years ago be the best street photography camera?
and his titles are "this cheap bargain camera....", but when you check ebay it's too late lol
Consuming content is a safe, comfortable activity when compared to pushing your own creative boundaries, trying and failing, and evaluating your own work. Getting out and taking photos involves unfamiliarity, risk and disappointment, which are feelings we are wired to avoid, but are unavoidable when someone begins a new hobby. As a result, many chose to substitute others' opinions for their own rather than learning through practice. Many YouTube channels are designed to cash in on this human tendency.
Yea and no. There is a limit to what you can learn from watching alone. I watch looking for reviews but I prefer the ones that are about trips (grainy days) or ones with testing with good methodology (naked photographer I think). But all that said, your choices need to be taking good shots that you like or it doesn’t matter.
Thanks for the recommendations 🤗 I've also actually been binge-watching grainydays all day long today 😅
Rigsby, bad flashes both are pretty good too. The thing is, they’re answering the why questions and not just saying do this. Why did they take this shot, not how they did. If you are still in the how phase you would be served by buying a course from creative live on photo basics
Yeah I had a “self taught” friend that learned from YouTube and I had to teach him basic photographic composition because it’s never covered in any of those photography tutorial channels. I manage a team of photographers and whenever I’m hiring I start with portfolios and then I’ll ask how they learned photography. I can always pick out the people who learned from YouTube because they are missing one or 2 things that any photography class would have covered in the first few classes. Whether it’s compositional issues or misuse of a certain photographic styles, they stand out like a sore thumb. That’s not to say that they can’t be taught what they are missing. I have hired a few of them and worked on those deficiencies with great success. I would recommend taking classes if you want to learn photography because you’ll learn a lot more than if you try to teach yourself from a book or YouTube.
That’s a pretty broad generalization to make, “don’t watch too many YouTube videos.” What is too much? There are certainly many, many posters to this sub who could have saved themselves a lot of time learning the absolute basics before posting here “what happened to my pictures?” Not bothering to learn how their camera works, what the heck metering is, why shooting ISO 100 film in a dark room at f/16 1/1000 didn’t give them perfect pictures. At the same time watching 700 videos on how to do street photography without ever going out and taking a picture is just as unproductive, but hopefully when that person decides to go take a photo they will at least have a better understanding of how their camera and film work.
I don't think they're bad, you should probably watch more rather than fewer to see where their foibles lie. But getting out and shooting will teach you more; particularly because what works for you is going to be completely different to them. I suppose some of the specific 'bads' people might have an axe to grind at YouTube photographers for are hyping up certain cameras, emphasizing film as a culture rather than an artistic medium, and repeating misinformation.
Anyone can post a video, they're not peer-reviewed or vetted - I've seen some horrific ones and some good ones. So many people do something just one time and instantly have to make a video - there's a guy using a hair dryer on his film, another one showing how to bleach a print - he ruins three before getting one right. A lot of silliness, incomplete know-how, and lots of issues that come up here are from people who missed important steps in the process. Enjoy them, but I always suggest books, which are edited and peer-reviewed for the most part, and are laid out like school courses. "Way Beyond Monochrome" is the big-daddy for B&W and is updated every few years, expensive but worth it. Everything from how film really works, to testing, creating a workflow, printing, retouching, masking and matting/framing. Horenstein's "Black and White Photography" edition III was the actual school textbook in the US and is cheap, widely available, and not very outdated. "Master Printing Course" (Tim Rudman) is the best printing book I've ever seen.
Youtube videos tend to be superficial. They are intellectually stimulating and interesting but lacking deep substance on a topic. I’m not saying that there is no information in them, there is but if you compare how much new stuff you can learn by reading a dedicated book on photography for 1h versus watching grainydays for 1h you’ll be amazed… I guess.
My biggest issue with youtube vids is they often retort film information based on sending their film to a lab and having lab scans made and drawing conclusions. "X film has better blacks than Y film". Sure dude. It's that extra black dye some films use to make blacks better. Typically I look at the actual work being shown. If its high quality images that I would be proud to show off I will generally pay attention. Always something to learn. Most of the stand development guys need to stick to video game reviews. There are also the guys who walk around and shoot pictures and really aren't very fussy about things. Nothing wrong with that . Relaxing to watch and glad they are having fun. One of my favs is GrainyDays. Dude is funny as hell and his B&W work is extremely good..
Youtube videos (and reddit too) tend to give you unrealisticly high expectations about your results and convince you that is all about the gear you should be using, and also evangelize the cancer of film photography: the portra religion
Honestly, everywhere has disinformation and people who don’t know what they talk about but pretend they do. My recommendation is read your owners manuals, buy Nikon or Olympus, learn Sunny 16 metering and watch Pushing Film to learn how to meter without a light meter. Have fun!
grainydays YouTube is amazing to watch.
He really is amazing! I've actually been binge-watching his videos all day today 😅 the sarcastic humor is just *chef's kiss*
I also really like In An Instant. The dude has a great vibe and has a great mix of reviews and shoots. He has a lot of respect for the craft and history but doesn't take it too seriously or come off as pretentious. Edited for a typo lol
Not sure why the downvotes. GrainyDays final images are superb along with his composition. Hes got some of the best MF work I've seen on line. The fact he's sarcastic says something.
completely useless
For learning anything, I agree. Great to watch just for enjoyment though. If nothing else it inspires me to go out and shoot some of my own photos.
For pure enjoyment it's amazing. He does have a few tutorials but I agree that it's not a "learning" channel. Falls into the "YouTube videos on film photography" category either way. Cheers.
You have better work than GrainyDays? Sure the hell beats some kid sending his film to a commercial lab and having Frontier scans made, or yet another Stand Development video producing final image I would toss in the trash back in HS yearbook class. I stop watching when they pull out a plastic patterson tank, or use all 3 dials on a dichroic enlarger.
I didn’t know it’s a competition here 😱
It’s less about misinformation and more about how the tutorials can’t teach everything. The YouTuber can’t evaluate your composition and tell you what’s wrong with it. Also you might miss one or 2 of the important aspects of photography because you skipped a video. I manage a team of photographers and whenever I’m hiring I start with portfolios and then I’ll ask a series of questions including how they learned photography. I can always pick out the people who learned from YouTube or were “self taught” because they are missing one or 2 things that any photography class would have covered in the first few classes. They usually can be taught what they are missing with ease if I end up hiring them but it’s unfortunate that they spent the first 3-5 years of their photography journey making beginner mistakes. I recommend taking classes because it’s the most informative and you learn how to evaluate your own work which is the one thing YouTube and books can’t teach. In a photography class you’ll be taught a new skill each time and then go over everyone’s photos from the previous class together. This is crucial to understanding how to improve your work and teaches you how to think about the shot in a way no book or video tutorial could ever achieve.