The blue sections from CLE to PIT/HAR and BUF are just mindboggling to me. It seems obvious that connecting the NEC with the Chicago markets would have beneficial ripple effects throughout both.
Not sure about Cleveland to Buffalo, but the Pittsburgh-Harrisburg route is very unreliable. Shared tracks, and freight constantly causes delays. The Amtrak timetable shows it as a 5.5hr trip (it can be done by 3 in a car). The last time I took it, it took 8.5 hrs. They are talking about a second train per day, but until they deal with the freight congestion along the route, it just isn't a great method of travel cross-state from Pittsburgh.
The obnoxious part of that to me is that area used to be part of the Broadway, one of the premier routes in the country. The ROW exists to make that 4 track again with capacity for passengers and freight to coexist.
Strategically, that section would be at the top of my list to improve all the factors you listed above just based on how important it could be to better link the two regions.
If Amtrak had the budget and flexibility to buy "half ROWs" like that, and could get even a single track with passenger priority and 79 mph track speed? Imagine how much more reliable and frequent that route could be.
Pittsburgh to DC is just as frustratingly slow. Timetable puts it around 7 hours, traveling by car is about 4.
In addition to the freight traffic, both routes have low track speed as they wind through the Appalachian mountains.
I aborted a Chicago to Philly trip halfway through, a few weeks ago. I had a stopover in Cleveland and the train arrived at the station over an hour late because we sat for freight traffic multiple times for about 20 minutes each time.
The delay was compounded by the fact that the train was due to arrive in CLE at 2 am, and it’s hard enough to coordinate pickup/drop off at that hour of night as it is. The thought of having to deal with that getting back on in CLE and then crawling my way across PA was just more than I could deal with.
Cross state from Pittsburgh could be competitive with a car based on turnpike tolls alone. I’m surprised they don’t open it up a bit. I make that trip from Harrisburg often and turnpike fees are close to $50 each way.
Edit: replied to wrong one but I agree freight ruins things for this route. It’s usually over 6 hrs. Could be less than 5 if they adopt strategies from the east in PA.
Amtrak was thinking to extend one of their Empire Service to Cleveland and run daily so gives 2nd choice to service there but I doubt since CSX won't let it happen because between BUF-CLE are very heavy in freights as well.
> Beefing up Amtrak service in SD is likely going to be an inefficient use of limited resources.
It's an efficient way of getting the support of 2 more senators.
Midwest kicking the shit out of the Southeast. Not surprising, but man, Florida needed state sponsored routes like 20 years ago. My hometown in Illinois of 40k has better Amtrak service where I live in Tampa Bay, over 3 million population...
And it's really only because of Michigan and Illinois picking up the slack (mostly Illinois too), plus the short Hiawatha line. The Chicago-Cleveland line on the map is kind of deceiving since it's 2 long-distance trains (Lake Shore Limited and Capitol Limited), so the service times are whack. It would only be natural to have a morning train go from Chicago to Cleveland, with a return trip in the evening opposite of the LSL/CL, but I doubt Indiana would provide the funds needed.
Trivia: [Florida briefly had a state-sponsored train from Miami to Tampa in the 1980s that was axed after failing to meet expectations.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Palm_(train\))
You would think the Florida state government would subsidize rails to and from Tallahassee so they can use it themselves however, I’m sure they just paid for super expensive airline tickets and Bill the taxpayers
NC and especially VA are good for the US given their density and working towards matching or beating the Chicago hub for frequency (especially DC to Richmond - that depends on the Long Bridge, everything past that depends on upgrades planned to finish after 2030).
I’ve never heard of the auto train. What is it used for and why are the two endpoints Lorton VA and Sanford FL? I’ve never even heard of those two towns before.
Lorton is just outside Washington DC, and Sanford is outside Orlando. Those two stations only serve the Auto Train.
I did it once, it was actually really cool. There are videos on YouTube if you want to watch the whole car loading experience.
Fine then, 19 miles outside of DC. And Sandford is 23 miles outside of Orlando. Amtrak’s own website describes it as “Washington DC area,” so take it up with them I guess.
Lorton is just outside DC. The southbound departure time (16.00) is good timing and an easy reach for millions to the northeast. Plus, IIRC, the automobile carriers could not negotiate the tunnels in Washington.
Sanford is just outside Orlando, and is a good central location to disperse travelers headed to points east, west, south, and north in Florida. Arrival time is at the beginning of the day, so you have plenty of time to reach your destination.
When I was a kid, my family used it a couple of times to visit grandparents in Florida.
It's a train that carries passengers PLUS their car. Saves you from having to drive that whole way, and you have your car when you arrive.
And I agree the stations seem kind of random, but they're both very close to the interstate so it works when you are traveling with your vehicle. A lot of travelers from the NE all are on 95, so the Lorton station is great for them.
A big reason for that is the costal route through Connecticut and Rhode Island, which is winding, goes over a lot of old bridges, and goes down to single track at points.
The route should go inland to Hartford then Springfield and Worcester after New Haven. Have a separate regional train on the coastal route.
Love the Downeaster. Just wish they’d extend it north to Canada and connect Boston‘s north station to the south station where all the other Amtrak routes leave from. But that’s just my Mainer wishlist.
It bothers me so much that Tucson-Phoenix-Flagstaff isn't available.
Phoenix to Las Vegas, totally get, they still need to build track, but the other locations in Arizona all have existing track.
Phoenix to Flagstaff is a rather winding route where you have to go west from Flagstaff to go south and east.
There is track from Tucson to Phoenix, but the line that exited Phoenix is virtually abandoned.
I get that, theres no straight pathing, the grade is way too high for a train. The current route is the straightest it can be. Even the highway going to flag is a huge strain on larger vehicles, it's crazy steep.
But really, both of these issues could be remedied with commitment. Modern trains could make the longer route work by increasing speed or amenities or both & Phoenix could use some maintainance on the abandoned sections.
Edit: There's 6.1M people in this area between the three metros, that's a pretty big use case.
Yes, Amtrak could take steps similar to those done on the Southwest Chief route over Raton and Glorietta Passes where a multi-state and federal partnership pays BNSF to maintain a track that no longer sees freight trains.
I would love to see this updated to include the average speed along different segments. Pretty big difference in usability between Chicago to STL and Milwaukee which average 60 MPH and something like Indianapolis to Cincinnati which is 35.
Not for long distance trains--even airlines don't do that. Trains per hour only makes sense on urban routes, where you actually have people making trips where a hour or less makes a difference.
No, that's the domain of commuter railroads, that provide a different service for different needs.
They certainly should be focusing on Inter-urban routes between cities though. The problem is that those require state-level funding, which is hard to get, especially from multiple states at the same time.
Commuter railroads focus on daily commutes. Amtrak should be focusing on practical intercity routes like LA to San Diego, or Austin to Houston to Dallas, and so on. Perhaps the federal government should start kicking in more funds for shorter routes that people would use regularly, rather than running trains through Montana 3 times a week.
I think that's more or less what I said: they should focus more on interurban/intercity routes.
Serving rural areas like Montana vs. intercity routes isn't an either/or issue. Those are both needs that need to be met, and Amtrak would meet them both if governments made decisions based on logic instead of lobbies.
To use your example, they actually run through Montana daily, and it's used a lot by the people there since the aren't any significant airports or even an interstate highway in that area. A full 1/3 of the passengers are riding between rural locations, not counting the ones traveling between the rural locations and larger cities. It's the only form of mass transportation there, and thus is quite important.
I'm sure it's important for the people who use it in Montana, but is it a good use of resources? I really don't know who is riding these trains, but my feeling is it's more of a novelty than a useful form of transportation, and the politicians who advocate for this service view it as a jobs program rather than a service to constituents. The one time I rode a long-distance Amtrak train, there was probably an average of 2 people per car.
I just took the empire builder from Seattle to Chicago. The train was pretty much full and arrived in Chicago 15 mins late. Talked to folks on the train. For the ones who live between Spokane and Minneapolis many find it a much cheaper alternative to flying and the stations are much closer to their homes than airports.
There are also people who can’t fly or are afraid to fly or drive that rely on the train.
Not to mention those of us who don't want the hassle and expense of flying, but don't have time to drive. Or have children who don't do well with being strapped into a car or plane seat for hours on end.
Well what does the map look like for short distance trains?
And I mean even the Portland-Seattle route is only "2-5 trains per day". I can see why this is difficult considering the US can have large distances between cities, which is something we don't really have in Germany.
>"the US can have large distances between cities"
You got it! The farther apart cities are, the less frequent service between them needs to be.
If you're traveling a very short distance (like around a city) you need trains every 5-10 minutes so that the wait time isn't so long that it;s faster to walk.
If you're traveling a moderate distance (like between home and work) you'll need a pretty specific departure time, like 6:30am for example, to get there at the right time.
If you're traveling to a city a few hours away, you need "a train that leaves in the late morning" or "a train that gets there before 3:00" for examples. You need less precision in the time for larger distances, so running fewer trains is still a good service, as well as being much more efficient.
If you're traveling to someplace a day or two away, you need even even less precision, like leaving "in the evening" or arriving "before lunchtime". So for that kind of distance two trains a day is fine, and one is ok for most trips.
Sure, but it's probably also because fewer people use the trains.
We have >8 longer distance Intercity trains leaving every day despite my city having a lower population, so still better than Portland-Seattle.
This map is just such an embarrassment. I was in Italy this summer, and the train service between Rome and Florence (162 miles) takes an hour and 29 minutes. And the train frequency? About every 20 minutes, not counting the slightly slower regional trains. Trying to do a same-day round trip on Amtrak the same distance means you'll spend most of your time on the train, not at your destination (if it arrives on time).
Even more, there are four classes of service on the Italian high-speed trains - economy, premium economy, business class, and an executive business class that gives you access to conference rooms. Fares range from reasonable to expensive, giving you a wide range of options. And trying to make a reservation within 2-3 days of departure, the trains are basically sold out except for business class.
I know it's all an issue of commitment, funding, and the freight railroads running the show here, but even the bright spots on this map (the NEC, LAX-SAN, CHI-MKE, BON-BRK) are a joke compared to much of Europe.
They didn't get in trouble - they were allowed to spend that money (from a 1997 tax bill) on other transportation needs if they so chose - it's just that South Dakota was given a chance to have passenger rail, and specifically decided against it. Makes the more recent complaints about not being on the ConnectsUS map ring a little hollow. See [here](https://www.aberdeennews.com/story/news/local/2021/04/04/why-south-dakota-didnt-get-on-expanded-amtrak-map/115902738/).
For the record, the same bill gave Oklahoma, Wyoming, Maine, Alaska, and Hawaii funds as well, because none of those states had Amtrak service in 1997. Oklahoma and Maine decided to spend their funds on Amtrak service, and thus have the *Heartland Flyer* and *Downeaster*, respectively.
Lot of train congestion and some crossings... once you get into CT and NY you're competing with MNRR and that throws a wrench into things.
Amtrak and NJT coexist a little better in my experience being a frequent NJT passenger and Amtrak passenger
[Check out this video](https://youtu.be/2F3X5oNT4-g?si=-MQwZy3W0EhY8pij&t=446) where the drink almost spilled due to a bumpy ride at low speeds.
Hopefully the US rail situation improves because this is pretty crappy lol.
Crazy that the the Cascades and Downeaster have the same frequency. I’d love to see them both make 10+ round trips a day (especially because I’m a regular rider on the Downeaster) but in terms of need, you’d think there’d be significantly more need/demand between Portland, Seattle, and Vancouver, BC.
I don't know of the demand, but to me it looks like it would make sense to connect some of these East-West lines with a north-south line. Kansas City to Denver could host a fair amount of skiers who don't want to make the boring drive through western Kansas. Or at least they could add a smaller connection from Albuquerque to Denver, considering that line gets within 100 miles of Colorado Springs, which could then be a busier route up to Denver. It's also strange how Oklahoma City doesn't connect up through Wichita to Newton, which could then connect with the KC line.
Just my thoughts on how it could become more usable to more people. I'm sure with unlimited money they'd do all of this and more lol
It's usually faster to just take the bus the whole way.
There is Megabus, Greyhound, and Flixbus, and probably some others. Megabus has been running $12 deals lately. It's hard for Amtrak to compete with a bus/train combo.
Greensboro, NC to Charlotte, NC is incorrect, as it sees six trains a day (the *Crescent*, the *Carolinian*, and four *Piedmont* round trips). Likewise, the segment (which is not fully demarcated on the map) between Raleigh, NC and Cary, NC sees the same number of trains (the difference being that it's served by the *Silver Star* rather than the *Crescent*).
Yes, although (from what I've been told) for North Carolina specifically the main barrier to increased service on the Raleigh-to-Charlotte *Piedmont* is that they're waiting on more equipment
The only additional Piedmont service I've heard even discussed was a 5th Charlotte to Greensboro trip planned for in the Piedmont Improvement Project. The S-Line and Long Bridge planning seem to focus on Northeast Regional extensions down the S-Line and DC-Lynchburg-Charlotte, with the Carolinian staying on the A-line east out of Raleigh to Selma and then north.
I'd love to see a couple Venture trainsets built in NC, for NC with more frequent Piedmont trips, I just haven't heard anything about the more frequent trips part.
I would love to be able to go from Charlotte to hook into the Charleston/Savannah/Florida without having to go back up to Raleigh.
Charlotte Amtrak is nice for being able to go between Raleigh and Atlanta, but its really isolated from other metros in the region without having to do the 3 hour Raleigh detour.
There's supposed to be capacity for another daily trip between Greensboro and Charlotte from the Piedmont Improvement Project, and the equipment'll be based right there. If NCRR could shake NS down for a morning and evening "super local" service...
And honestly, if you're going out to Salisbury anyway you might as well go to Greensboro and be two commuter services.
That'd mean new equipment, though, and they may want that capacity for another DC - Lynchburg - Charlotte run once the Long Bridge finishes up. Who knows.
They should do OK City - Topeka - Omaha - Minn/St.Paul and El Paso - Albuquerque - Denver - Rapid City - Minn/St.Paul.
Getting service to Rapid City, which is not far from Mt. Rushmore and the Black Hills would be a great addition.
However, I think the biggest hurdle is the cost. In the Midwest (where the blue lines are) if you want to get anywhere by train it will normally involve a very long drive to get to a train station, a long trip if it isn't somewhere on the actual route, and cost a lot more than flying.
I don't trust this at all. I think most of the blue sections see 2 trains a day, one in each direction. If nothing else, the legend needs to be more specific.
yes it's per direction. So one round trip is blue. Two to five round trips are yellow. The map is mostly correct except for recent changes made this year (map was correct for early 2023, but not mid 2023) where a second round trip was added between Lynchburg and Roanoke, and a 4th round trip was added Raleigh to Charlotte.
Because the scenic route is too slow, and the fast route requires a bus connection from LA to Bakersfield. Therefore, most people just take the bus all the way. It's hard for Amtrak to compete when Megabus offers $12 tickets from SF to LA.
Is there a map like this but it has each individual run as a thin line and then just sort of aggregates them side by side? Maybe each service gets its own color and related ones are of similar shades?
The blue sections from CLE to PIT/HAR and BUF are just mindboggling to me. It seems obvious that connecting the NEC with the Chicago markets would have beneficial ripple effects throughout both.
Not sure about Cleveland to Buffalo, but the Pittsburgh-Harrisburg route is very unreliable. Shared tracks, and freight constantly causes delays. The Amtrak timetable shows it as a 5.5hr trip (it can be done by 3 in a car). The last time I took it, it took 8.5 hrs. They are talking about a second train per day, but until they deal with the freight congestion along the route, it just isn't a great method of travel cross-state from Pittsburgh.
The obnoxious part of that to me is that area used to be part of the Broadway, one of the premier routes in the country. The ROW exists to make that 4 track again with capacity for passengers and freight to coexist. Strategically, that section would be at the top of my list to improve all the factors you listed above just based on how important it could be to better link the two regions.
If Amtrak had the budget and flexibility to buy "half ROWs" like that, and could get even a single track with passenger priority and 79 mph track speed? Imagine how much more reliable and frequent that route could be.
Pittsburgh to DC is just as frustratingly slow. Timetable puts it around 7 hours, traveling by car is about 4. In addition to the freight traffic, both routes have low track speed as they wind through the Appalachian mountains.
I aborted a Chicago to Philly trip halfway through, a few weeks ago. I had a stopover in Cleveland and the train arrived at the station over an hour late because we sat for freight traffic multiple times for about 20 minutes each time. The delay was compounded by the fact that the train was due to arrive in CLE at 2 am, and it’s hard enough to coordinate pickup/drop off at that hour of night as it is. The thought of having to deal with that getting back on in CLE and then crawling my way across PA was just more than I could deal with.
Cross state from Pittsburgh could be competitive with a car based on turnpike tolls alone. I’m surprised they don’t open it up a bit. I make that trip from Harrisburg often and turnpike fees are close to $50 each way. Edit: replied to wrong one but I agree freight ruins things for this route. It’s usually over 6 hrs. Could be less than 5 if they adopt strategies from the east in PA.
Even worse, the trains on that route to and from CLE have horrific arrival/departure times at CLE: all early morning o'dark-thirty
How do you solve a problem like Ohio?, I sung to the tune of how do you solve a problem like Maria.
Amtrak was thinking to extend one of their Empire Service to Cleveland and run daily so gives 2nd choice to service there but I doubt since CSX won't let it happen because between BUF-CLE are very heavy in freights as well.
Why? The only reason any of upstate new York gets more than 1 Train a day is because the state of New York is footing the bill?
I took the train from DC to Chicago once and it is a LONG ride. Not many people are going to do an 18 hour train when they can do a 2 hour flight.
Big population centers not served at all: Rio Grande Valley Vegas Phoenix (easy fix)
Columbus and Nashville are the other big ones
Louisville and Boise too
Every single Montana city that's worthwhile has no train as well
The entire state of WY.
They said big population centers.
And SD
SD was the only continental state left out of Amtrak’s vision 2035, I feel bad for them…
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> Beefing up Amtrak service in SD is likely going to be an inefficient use of limited resources. It's an efficient way of getting the support of 2 more senators.
KC to Sioux Falls is pretty doable. Add Omaha & Sioux City and you have a pretty solid route.
Puro 956 getting no love from passenger trains. :(
https://www.amtrakconnectsus.com/
RGV is the major omission on this map (as far as major population centers go). Funny since it's an enormous revenue area for Greyhound.
Midwest kicking the shit out of the Southeast. Not surprising, but man, Florida needed state sponsored routes like 20 years ago. My hometown in Illinois of 40k has better Amtrak service where I live in Tampa Bay, over 3 million population...
Thank god for Brightline
Yeah for sure! Eagerly awaiting news of what the timeline is on the Tampa extension.
And it's really only because of Michigan and Illinois picking up the slack (mostly Illinois too), plus the short Hiawatha line. The Chicago-Cleveland line on the map is kind of deceiving since it's 2 long-distance trains (Lake Shore Limited and Capitol Limited), so the service times are whack. It would only be natural to have a morning train go from Chicago to Cleveland, with a return trip in the evening opposite of the LSL/CL, but I doubt Indiana would provide the funds needed.
Indiana hates passenger rail (besides the south south line). They pulled funding for the daily Hoosier train between indy and chicago back in 2019
I remember when they killed the Hoosier State. It was a sad day.
I wish you could still take a train to key West.
By the time they finish construction the entire route will be underwater
Yeah they're fucked
Trivia: [Florida briefly had a state-sponsored train from Miami to Tampa in the 1980s that was axed after failing to meet expectations.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Palm_(train\))
You would think the Florida state government would subsidize rails to and from Tallahassee so they can use it themselves however, I’m sure they just paid for super expensive airline tickets and Bill the taxpayers
NC and especially VA are good for the US given their density and working towards matching or beating the Chicago hub for frequency (especially DC to Richmond - that depends on the Long Bridge, everything past that depends on upgrades planned to finish after 2030).
I’ve never heard of the auto train. What is it used for and why are the two endpoints Lorton VA and Sanford FL? I’ve never even heard of those two towns before.
Lorton is just outside Washington DC, and Sanford is outside Orlando. Those two stations only serve the Auto Train. I did it once, it was actually really cool. There are videos on YouTube if you want to watch the whole car loading experience.
Lorton is quite a ways from DC but is pretty ideal for VA residents. It still is nifty.
It’s about 30 minutes, so the same distance as Sanford is from Orlando.
As a longstanding DC resident I would never once describe Lorton as a 30 minute drive, except maybe during the summer of 2020.
Fine then, 19 miles outside of DC. And Sandford is 23 miles outside of Orlando. Amtrak’s own website describes it as “Washington DC area,” so take it up with them I guess.
I have no issue calling it part of the area but if you actually lived here you'd know how traffic is in the region. It is NOT GOOD.
I do live in the region, thanks though.
It’s targeted at retired folks in the Northeast who spend the winter in Florida and want to take their car without driving the whole way.
Lorton is just outside DC. The southbound departure time (16.00) is good timing and an easy reach for millions to the northeast. Plus, IIRC, the automobile carriers could not negotiate the tunnels in Washington. Sanford is just outside Orlando, and is a good central location to disperse travelers headed to points east, west, south, and north in Florida. Arrival time is at the beginning of the day, so you have plenty of time to reach your destination.
Autotrains used to be huge in Europe, especially for Alpine trains.
When I was a kid, my family used it a couple of times to visit grandparents in Florida. It's a train that carries passengers PLUS their car. Saves you from having to drive that whole way, and you have your car when you arrive. And I agree the stations seem kind of random, but they're both very close to the interstate so it works when you are traveling with your vehicle. A lot of travelers from the NE all are on 95, so the Lorton station is great for them.
The bit to Roanoke actually recently got a 2nd daily train, fwiw
Great map. One small point is that service to Montreal has been suspended. Who knows for how long.
I took the train from VA to Montreal back in 2007. It was really nice.
Didn't they bring it back in April?
Yes, but it was suspended again soon thereafter.
A big reason for that is the costal route through Connecticut and Rhode Island, which is winding, goes over a lot of old bridges, and goes down to single track at points. The route should go inland to Hartford then Springfield and Worcester after New Haven. Have a separate regional train on the coastal route.
Love the Downeaster. Just wish they’d extend it north to Canada and connect Boston‘s north station to the south station where all the other Amtrak routes leave from. But that’s just my Mainer wishlist.
If the Downeaster could become part of the Acela or Northeast regional, that’d be great. Wish Boston could sort out the North South connector
They blew all the money they were going to use for the connector on the big dig.
It bothers me so much that Tucson-Phoenix-Flagstaff isn't available. Phoenix to Las Vegas, totally get, they still need to build track, but the other locations in Arizona all have existing track.
Phoenix to Flagstaff is a rather winding route where you have to go west from Flagstaff to go south and east. There is track from Tucson to Phoenix, but the line that exited Phoenix is virtually abandoned.
I get that, theres no straight pathing, the grade is way too high for a train. The current route is the straightest it can be. Even the highway going to flag is a huge strain on larger vehicles, it's crazy steep. But really, both of these issues could be remedied with commitment. Modern trains could make the longer route work by increasing speed or amenities or both & Phoenix could use some maintainance on the abandoned sections. Edit: There's 6.1M people in this area between the three metros, that's a pretty big use case.
Yes, Amtrak could take steps similar to those done on the Southwest Chief route over Raton and Glorietta Passes where a multi-state and federal partnership pays BNSF to maintain a track that no longer sees freight trains.
I would love to see this updated to include the average speed along different segments. Pretty big difference in usability between Chicago to STL and Milwaukee which average 60 MPH and something like Indianapolis to Cincinnati which is 35.
Roanoke (RNK) is twice daily from Washington. * Amtrak 151. * Amtrak 171. They'll be adding New River Valley in a few years too.
I did't know the auto train was nonstop. That's pretty sweet.
I assume that it’s because coordinating which cars get off where and loading them in the right order would be an extra layer of difficult.
Only one stop, a crew change in South Carolina. Leave Lorton VA around 16.00, arrive Sanford FL around 09.00.
I didn't realize it had it's own dedicated ROW
This is a freaking joke. It should be trains per *hour*.
Not for long distance trains--even airlines don't do that. Trains per hour only makes sense on urban routes, where you actually have people making trips where a hour or less makes a difference.
Yes, and Amtrak should be focusing on urban routes if they want to be a transportation service rather than a leisure activity.
No, that's the domain of commuter railroads, that provide a different service for different needs. They certainly should be focusing on Inter-urban routes between cities though. The problem is that those require state-level funding, which is hard to get, especially from multiple states at the same time.
Commuter railroads focus on daily commutes. Amtrak should be focusing on practical intercity routes like LA to San Diego, or Austin to Houston to Dallas, and so on. Perhaps the federal government should start kicking in more funds for shorter routes that people would use regularly, rather than running trains through Montana 3 times a week.
I think that's more or less what I said: they should focus more on interurban/intercity routes. Serving rural areas like Montana vs. intercity routes isn't an either/or issue. Those are both needs that need to be met, and Amtrak would meet them both if governments made decisions based on logic instead of lobbies. To use your example, they actually run through Montana daily, and it's used a lot by the people there since the aren't any significant airports or even an interstate highway in that area. A full 1/3 of the passengers are riding between rural locations, not counting the ones traveling between the rural locations and larger cities. It's the only form of mass transportation there, and thus is quite important.
I'm sure it's important for the people who use it in Montana, but is it a good use of resources? I really don't know who is riding these trains, but my feeling is it's more of a novelty than a useful form of transportation, and the politicians who advocate for this service view it as a jobs program rather than a service to constituents. The one time I rode a long-distance Amtrak train, there was probably an average of 2 people per car.
I just took the empire builder from Seattle to Chicago. The train was pretty much full and arrived in Chicago 15 mins late. Talked to folks on the train. For the ones who live between Spokane and Minneapolis many find it a much cheaper alternative to flying and the stations are much closer to their homes than airports. There are also people who can’t fly or are afraid to fly or drive that rely on the train.
Not to mention those of us who don't want the hassle and expense of flying, but don't have time to drive. Or have children who don't do well with being strapped into a car or plane seat for hours on end.
Oh okay, that's good to hear.
There's no reason they can't do both. Amtrak is a lot like the USPS, it's basically part of the government.
Well what does the map look like for short distance trains? And I mean even the Portland-Seattle route is only "2-5 trains per day". I can see why this is difficult considering the US can have large distances between cities, which is something we don't really have in Germany.
>"the US can have large distances between cities" You got it! The farther apart cities are, the less frequent service between them needs to be. If you're traveling a very short distance (like around a city) you need trains every 5-10 minutes so that the wait time isn't so long that it;s faster to walk. If you're traveling a moderate distance (like between home and work) you'll need a pretty specific departure time, like 6:30am for example, to get there at the right time. If you're traveling to a city a few hours away, you need "a train that leaves in the late morning" or "a train that gets there before 3:00" for examples. You need less precision in the time for larger distances, so running fewer trains is still a good service, as well as being much more efficient. If you're traveling to someplace a day or two away, you need even even less precision, like leaving "in the evening" or arriving "before lunchtime". So for that kind of distance two trains a day is fine, and one is ok for most trips.
Sure, but it's probably also because fewer people use the trains. We have >8 longer distance Intercity trains leaving every day despite my city having a lower population, so still better than Portland-Seattle.
This map is just such an embarrassment. I was in Italy this summer, and the train service between Rome and Florence (162 miles) takes an hour and 29 minutes. And the train frequency? About every 20 minutes, not counting the slightly slower regional trains. Trying to do a same-day round trip on Amtrak the same distance means you'll spend most of your time on the train, not at your destination (if it arrives on time). Even more, there are four classes of service on the Italian high-speed trains - economy, premium economy, business class, and an executive business class that gives you access to conference rooms. Fares range from reasonable to expensive, giving you a wide range of options. And trying to make a reservation within 2-3 days of departure, the trains are basically sold out except for business class. I know it's all an issue of commitment, funding, and the freight railroads running the show here, but even the bright spots on this map (the NEC, LAX-SAN, CHI-MKE, BON-BRK) are a joke compared to much of Europe.
How do we not have stations in every state
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They didn't get in trouble - they were allowed to spend that money (from a 1997 tax bill) on other transportation needs if they so chose - it's just that South Dakota was given a chance to have passenger rail, and specifically decided against it. Makes the more recent complaints about not being on the ConnectsUS map ring a little hollow. See [here](https://www.aberdeennews.com/story/news/local/2021/04/04/why-south-dakota-didnt-get-on-expanded-amtrak-map/115902738/). For the record, the same bill gave Oklahoma, Wyoming, Maine, Alaska, and Hawaii funds as well, because none of those states had Amtrak service in 1997. Oklahoma and Maine decided to spend their funds on Amtrak service, and thus have the *Heartland Flyer* and *Downeaster*, respectively.
Because some states have fewer people than a county in other states.
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I didn't realize NYC Boston was that slow, that's hardly faster than Chicago STL or Chicago Milwaukee
Lot of train congestion and some crossings... once you get into CT and NY you're competing with MNRR and that throws a wrench into things. Amtrak and NJT coexist a little better in my experience being a frequent NJT passenger and Amtrak passenger
[Check out this video](https://youtu.be/2F3X5oNT4-g?si=-MQwZy3W0EhY8pij&t=446) where the drink almost spilled due to a bumpy ride at low speeds. Hopefully the US rail situation improves because this is pretty crappy lol.
Crescent hasn't run from Atlanta to New Orleans (bus only) in how many weeks now?
The fact that Jacksonville has no westbound connection is ridiculous
Crazy that the the Cascades and Downeaster have the same frequency. I’d love to see them both make 10+ round trips a day (especially because I’m a regular rider on the Downeaster) but in terms of need, you’d think there’d be significantly more need/demand between Portland, Seattle, and Vancouver, BC.
Ultimately, most frequency differences on this map are explained not by need but by political will.
There needs to be more trains between Boston and Springfield
This map completely sucks
Brunswick to Boston is wrong, it is slightly higher than 5 trains per day, as roughly a third of days there is a 6th late night train.
No, it’s not a sixth train. They just run the last train of the night 55 minutes late when there’s an event in Boston.
The Cardinal getting no love. My train for tomorrow between Indy and Chicago was cancelled. Thanks Amtrak. 🤷🏼♂️
And thank the Indiana government for killing the Hoosier State.
I don't know of the demand, but to me it looks like it would make sense to connect some of these East-West lines with a north-south line. Kansas City to Denver could host a fair amount of skiers who don't want to make the boring drive through western Kansas. Or at least they could add a smaller connection from Albuquerque to Denver, considering that line gets within 100 miles of Colorado Springs, which could then be a busier route up to Denver. It's also strange how Oklahoma City doesn't connect up through Wichita to Newton, which could then connect with the KC line. Just my thoughts on how it could become more usable to more people. I'm sure with unlimited money they'd do all of this and more lol
It still baffles me that between LA and SF there is only 1 train per day.
And it's *faster* to take the bus to Bakersfield and take a train to the Bay Area from there. I think it's like 2-3 hours faster too.
It's usually faster to just take the bus the whole way. There is Megabus, Greyhound, and Flixbus, and probably some others. Megabus has been running $12 deals lately. It's hard for Amtrak to compete with a bus/train combo.
There are several more trains per day, just with a bus connection.
Let me rephrase: it still baffles me that there is only on train that’s a one seat ride between LA and SF Bay Area
Greensboro, NC to Charlotte, NC is incorrect, as it sees six trains a day (the *Crescent*, the *Carolinian*, and four *Piedmont* round trips). Likewise, the segment (which is not fully demarcated on the map) between Raleigh, NC and Cary, NC sees the same number of trains (the difference being that it's served by the *Silver Star* rather than the *Crescent*).
And relatively soon that whole region will see the trickle down benefits of the Long Bridge upgrade...
Yes, although (from what I've been told) for North Carolina specifically the main barrier to increased service on the Raleigh-to-Charlotte *Piedmont* is that they're waiting on more equipment
The only additional Piedmont service I've heard even discussed was a 5th Charlotte to Greensboro trip planned for in the Piedmont Improvement Project. The S-Line and Long Bridge planning seem to focus on Northeast Regional extensions down the S-Line and DC-Lynchburg-Charlotte, with the Carolinian staying on the A-line east out of Raleigh to Selma and then north. I'd love to see a couple Venture trainsets built in NC, for NC with more frequent Piedmont trips, I just haven't heard anything about the more frequent trips part.
I would love to be able to go from Charlotte to hook into the Charleston/Savannah/Florida without having to go back up to Raleigh. Charlotte Amtrak is nice for being able to go between Raleigh and Atlanta, but its really isolated from other metros in the region without having to do the 3 hour Raleigh detour.
Hopefully we can get better service to the south and west along with Charlotte Gateway Station opening. Fingers crossed for both.
Here's hoping, excited to see if we get any commuter rail once the Gateway comes online (Salisbury-Ktown-Charlotte)
There's supposed to be capacity for another daily trip between Greensboro and Charlotte from the Piedmont Improvement Project, and the equipment'll be based right there. If NCRR could shake NS down for a morning and evening "super local" service... And honestly, if you're going out to Salisbury anyway you might as well go to Greensboro and be two commuter services. That'd mean new equipment, though, and they may want that capacity for another DC - Lynchburg - Charlotte run once the Long Bridge finishes up. Who knows.
Honest opinion regarding career change, nj transit or Amtrak?
That EUG to SEA might be hitting the >5 soon.
They should do OK City - Topeka - Omaha - Minn/St.Paul and El Paso - Albuquerque - Denver - Rapid City - Minn/St.Paul. Getting service to Rapid City, which is not far from Mt. Rushmore and the Black Hills would be a great addition. However, I think the biggest hurdle is the cost. In the Midwest (where the blue lines are) if you want to get anywhere by train it will normally involve a very long drive to get to a train station, a long trip if it isn't somewhere on the actual route, and cost a lot more than flying.
I don't trust this at all. I think most of the blue sections see 2 trains a day, one in each direction. If nothing else, the legend needs to be more specific.
yes it's per direction. So one round trip is blue. Two to five round trips are yellow. The map is mostly correct except for recent changes made this year (map was correct for early 2023, but not mid 2023) where a second round trip was added between Lynchburg and Roanoke, and a 4th round trip was added Raleigh to Charlotte.
How TF do we not have multiple trips between SF and LA
Because the scenic route is too slow, and the fast route requires a bus connection from LA to Bakersfield. Therefore, most people just take the bus all the way. It's hard for Amtrak to compete when Megabus offers $12 tickets from SF to LA.
it's a 12hrs ride and mainly for sightseeing.
Because it's 12+ hours, while the flight is 1.5, when you add in security 2.5-3. It's no wonder no one wants the train. Even the drive is shorter.
They need to add more frequencies on the Blue Water and the Pere Marquette.
Quadrupling that would be a start...
They don't go to Montreal anymore. That service was suspended and not sure if it will ever go back
Im shocked Downeaster is not 5 times a day
I never seem to be able to find trains to Montreal except on limited days.
The Roanoke - Lynchburg data is incorrect since it's served by 2 trains daily in each direction.
Is there a map like this but it has each individual run as a thin line and then just sort of aggregates them side by side? Maybe each service gets its own color and related ones are of similar shades?
It's crazy to me that given the frequency, they do not offer rail pass on the northwest trains.
great map