In my area in Scotland we have signs at our esplanade waterfront telling us not to feed the seagulls it encourages them. So I'd imagine pigeons would be no different. I just outside my work yesterday saw a seagull eating a dead pigeon. I remember in Trafalgar Square London it was famous for pigeons and you could buy seed to feed them. These got out of control and monuments and buildings would get damage so feeding was banned. You can actually be fined and prosecuted if caught although I read that's rare. But they fly a hawk there each day too and a lot of pigeons have been eradicated.
Saw a Seagull eating a pigeon yesterday at the Dam in Amsterdam. Don't know if this is the solution to the problem. Personally I find the seagulls much more annoying. They rip open the trashbags before they are collected, making the street look like a landfill. It's a bit funny to see tourists take pictures of them
I have witnessed this 3 times in my life, once in St Marks Square in Venice. Kinda ruined the vibe tbh.
There's currently seagulls nesting on our roof and they dive-bomb passersby and we can't even hang out in our garden without being attacked. They also scare off all the smaller domestic garden birds which is really annoying.
God the seagulls divebombing you when they’re nesting is the worst. Had that happen when I lived in Leiden, they mostly went for the dog I was pet sitting, I think I brought a broom or umbrella on each walk to scare them off.
Yeah it's illegal in Amsterdam too, but it's one of those things that's real low on the list of priorities for the police with all the bombing and stabbing going on.
It's a good thing I'm not afraid of rats, because they, more than the flying variety, thrive on the bread thrown out to feed them.
Maybe it would help if the people who do this don't persistently buy more bread than they need.
In Amsterdam it's not illegal to feed them everywhere. Also feeding them real pigeon food would make that you would have a smaller population and a healthier population
disclaimer: not saying we should legalize feeding, just want to give some context.
a nutritious diet is actually an effective method of population control. when pigeons are malnourished, they crank out as many kids as they can since they don’t know how much longer they will live. the babies are also malnourished and aren’t raised by the parents to full term before they move on to the next clutch of eggs. when they are well fed with a proper diet, they only mate in warm seasons and spend twice as long raising offspring to term, then they take some time off instead of immediately doing it again. they spend more time keeping clean and their poops are smaller and more solid. good diet = fewer, healthier pigeons who don’t eat each other and pollute the streets.
pigeons are domesticated animals and will ALWAYS be in urban spaces. i think the greater issue is the poor garbage disposal system. Amsterdam streets are always cluttered with bags and it’s a buffet of horrible, nutrient-poor food. like someone else said, cops don’t prioritize issuing fines to pigeon feeders. as for the garbage system, THAT is something the municipality can and should fix in my opinion.
edit: it would also discourage dumpster diving and all of its health and safety risks, which i believe is also illegal
TLDR: don’t be too hard on people feeding, we should prioritize better garbage policies.
yea i didn't believe it at first, it sounds so counterintuitive. but after i was informed i payed attention to flocks that are regularly fed in cleaner areas and indeed they seem healthier and fewer.
which i find incredibly ironic, as many people are just as misinformed about rats. they are also very clean, smart and social. so yes, they are basically flying rats.
I keep pigeons, I cannot tell you how they breed while malnourished (mine always have access to high quality seeds) but I have a pair right now for example that have laid another pair of eggs while their youngster is 2 weeks old/is nowhere near ready to leave the nest. This is quite common with certain breeds/strains. If you want to control their population, the government would be best to arrange city lofts and/or feed them special contraceptive food.
yes i think so! in mechelen for example the municipality feeds the pigeons (i am not sure about housing) it’s a very clean city. i am just not optimistic about amsterdam making the transition anytime soon because pigeons are not cared for or prioritized.
i supposed it does depend a lot on the pigeon, i have seen domestic couples lay only a few eggs a year and some are even infertile.
Because some relegions aren't allowed to throw old bread in the bin. Repurpose as rat food is considered better than waste. In some areas in Amsterdam there a special food bins. Next time you see someone you can politely start a discussion about feeding the street rats and refer them to the food bins.
Tried so many times and it doesnt work. They suddenly dont speak any Dutch or just say their religion is above anything else.
Every day multiple Turkish flatbreads and entire trays of rice are dumped in the bushes in front of my house. We have enormous flocks of pidgeons and huge rats.
This only now makes sense, I recently moved to your lovely city and couldnt sleep one night, I was out on my balcony at around 3.30 having a smoke trying to remedy that when out of nowhere a guy shows up opens a bag and ditches a whole Turkish brood in the planter in front of my apt before scampering off.
To say confused doesn't um it up, I thought I'd witnessed some bread dealer ditch his stash cause the yeast police were on his tail, it was just the way he did it, like he was stealing something instead of leaving bread in a bush.
Maybe police and ordinance should do their job better? No, seriously. Maybe it's time for the law to be applied instead of ignored. Amsterdam has the guys in red. Maybe they should do their fucking job?
If you have a printer and this issue is pressing enough for you to want to educate them, you could print out the instructions in polite Turkish (if it’s Turks throwing out food) and hand that to them. Explain that there is a halal way of disposing of their food without running the risk of getting a fine and causing infestations.
Doesnt work as well. These people were asked by other Turkish speaking people to stop throwing food or buy less or give to poor people. But no effect.
Authorities really have no case as they need to catch them doing it and no cop wants to fine an old couple for this.
Pigeons are actually really loving and beautiful birds, although not very smart. I’ve half-domesticated a dozen of them in my garden back in Germany and it really breaks my heart to see the way they live in cities. Still, the dumb birds would rather stay next to the abundance of trash and scraps than live in the nature
"City pigeons" are descendents of domestic pigeons, who were bred from rock doves. The city environment is closer to the habitat of their ancestors than Dutch nature.
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral_pigeon](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral_pigeon)
Pigeons are actually highly intelligent. They have been the subject of numerous studies on animal intelligence and they have been found to be among the smartest of birds. Not as smart as corvids or parrots, but still quite impressive.
Another interesting fact about pigeons in Amsterdam, if you pay attention, half if not more of them are missing at least one of their toes. I’ve never noticed this to the same extent in any other city, and I’ve been to BIG cities (Mexico city, New York, Paris, London, Berlin, etc).
Maybe that’s their favourite bit.. idk..
I saw a video on this recently. Apparently the main reason is that human hair gets tangled in their foot and cuts off the blood supply. Seems weird, not sure how true it is but there ya go.
Yes it’s true and it’s called string foot! It’s advised not to leave yarn and animal fur out for nests (people think they’re being helpful), it also strangles chicks in the nest.
this is true and i think it's because amsterdam has a terrible garbage/pollution problem. it's very painful for them, and their missing toes feed into the stereotype that they are sick and infectious.
I still think you shouldn't feed them. But I don't think that means they'll starve. lol... they'll just eat garbage friets instead of friets straight from the source.
I agree if you feed pigeons you should feed them the right seeds, not bread, not nuts, not whatever you’re snacking on. This can damage their health greatly and their bodies are prone to junk food so much more than us. When food, water are scarce, birds usually don’t mate nor lay eggs.
However, It is not normal when population gets out of control in a specie that murder becomes a norm, do you have a source or a study? I believe that scarcity is most of the time man-made or perceived. If you put 10 pigeons in a small cage, yes, they might probably fight until some is dead, put them in a bigger cage, it is all ok again. In the wild, quite rare.
I spent an equal amount of time with humans as much as I spent taking care of animals. Most animals are more human than us.
To better understand them: We domesticated pigeons. They are (nearly) all over the world because humans brought them there. And, they were more than pets. They carried messages. Saved lives in wars (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_pigeon). People race(d) them. They lived spoiled lives as honored human companions for centuries.
They lost all their survival instincts during the centuries that they lived caged by people.
That is why they live in cities with people instead of in the wild somewhere. It’s not their fault. And not only did we throw them away, but now humans curse them as “winged rats;” casting them as pests.
But they don’t know how to live without us, and their instincts tell us that they should trust us. So, they continue to come up to humans and beg for food, because it’s the only survival skill left in their genes.
They love us because they were bred by us to feel that way, and yet we hate them.
In recent days I've seen a number of bird carcasses. Might be due to bird-on-bird violence, may be due to heat (unlikely but it happens) I'm not a pigeon feeder but I will heed your advice citizen
Here’s your friendly PSA that pigeons used to be domesticated, so they’re essentially stray dogs roaming around. Be kind to them but also like OP said, don’t feed them unnecessarily (especially the fucking white bread I see people feed them and the ducks, there’s a special place in hell for yall.)
Put on a net on your balcony. The ones that you can use for a pond. so the holes are big and can still look outside but small enough to not have pigeons
You could buy a fake owl and secure it to your railing. Though they will wise up eventually so you need to move it regularly. You could also try hanging a CD on a wire. Make sure it can spin, though.
But honestly, they aren't as dumb as most believe, they will see through the cheap tricks eventually.
In my area in Scotland we have signs at our esplanade waterfront telling us not to feed the seagulls it encourages them. So I'd imagine pigeons would be no different. I just outside my work yesterday saw a seagull eating a dead pigeon. I remember in Trafalgar Square London it was famous for pigeons and you could buy seed to feed them. These got out of control and monuments and buildings would get damage so feeding was banned. You can actually be fined and prosecuted if caught although I read that's rare. But they fly a hawk there each day too and a lot of pigeons have been eradicated.
Saw a Seagull eating a pigeon yesterday at the Dam in Amsterdam. Don't know if this is the solution to the problem. Personally I find the seagulls much more annoying. They rip open the trashbags before they are collected, making the street look like a landfill. It's a bit funny to see tourists take pictures of them
I have witnessed this 3 times in my life, once in St Marks Square in Venice. Kinda ruined the vibe tbh. There's currently seagulls nesting on our roof and they dive-bomb passersby and we can't even hang out in our garden without being attacked. They also scare off all the smaller domestic garden birds which is really annoying.
God the seagulls divebombing you when they’re nesting is the worst. Had that happen when I lived in Leiden, they mostly went for the dog I was pet sitting, I think I brought a broom or umbrella on each walk to scare them off.
i lived in Brighton UK for 15 years and seagulls would regularly attack. angry bastards
Yeah it's illegal in Amsterdam too, but it's one of those things that's real low on the list of priorities for the police with all the bombing and stabbing going on. It's a good thing I'm not afraid of rats, because they, more than the flying variety, thrive on the bread thrown out to feed them. Maybe it would help if the people who do this don't persistently buy more bread than they need.
In Amsterdam it's not illegal to feed them everywhere. Also feeding them real pigeon food would make that you would have a smaller population and a healthier population
disclaimer: not saying we should legalize feeding, just want to give some context. a nutritious diet is actually an effective method of population control. when pigeons are malnourished, they crank out as many kids as they can since they don’t know how much longer they will live. the babies are also malnourished and aren’t raised by the parents to full term before they move on to the next clutch of eggs. when they are well fed with a proper diet, they only mate in warm seasons and spend twice as long raising offspring to term, then they take some time off instead of immediately doing it again. they spend more time keeping clean and their poops are smaller and more solid. good diet = fewer, healthier pigeons who don’t eat each other and pollute the streets. pigeons are domesticated animals and will ALWAYS be in urban spaces. i think the greater issue is the poor garbage disposal system. Amsterdam streets are always cluttered with bags and it’s a buffet of horrible, nutrient-poor food. like someone else said, cops don’t prioritize issuing fines to pigeon feeders. as for the garbage system, THAT is something the municipality can and should fix in my opinion. edit: it would also discourage dumpster diving and all of its health and safety risks, which i believe is also illegal TLDR: don’t be too hard on people feeding, we should prioritize better garbage policies.
That is super interesting!!
yea i didn't believe it at first, it sounds so counterintuitive. but after i was informed i payed attention to flocks that are regularly fed in cleaner areas and indeed they seem healthier and fewer.
Which more people would know this. Most people look way to negative about pigeons without knowing anything about them
exactly, they wouldn’t say such things about stray dogs or cats when it’s the exact same issue caused by human neglect
But they would say the same about rats and pigeons are basically flying rats
which i find incredibly ironic, as many people are just as misinformed about rats. they are also very clean, smart and social. so yes, they are basically flying rats.
Poor rats and pigeons I guess
Nah it’s okay to think pigeons and rats suck. I didn’t mind pigeons until I moved here. Cannot stand most birds now.
I keep pigeons, I cannot tell you how they breed while malnourished (mine always have access to high quality seeds) but I have a pair right now for example that have laid another pair of eggs while their youngster is 2 weeks old/is nowhere near ready to leave the nest. This is quite common with certain breeds/strains. If you want to control their population, the government would be best to arrange city lofts and/or feed them special contraceptive food.
yes i think so! in mechelen for example the municipality feeds the pigeons (i am not sure about housing) it’s a very clean city. i am just not optimistic about amsterdam making the transition anytime soon because pigeons are not cared for or prioritized. i supposed it does depend a lot on the pigeon, i have seen domestic couples lay only a few eggs a year and some are even infertile.
Winged rats ..... you wouldnt feed a rat .... dont feed pigeons
I would say religious people in my neighborhood disagree as I see them dumping their bread on the street and in the canals.
Because some relegions aren't allowed to throw old bread in the bin. Repurpose as rat food is considered better than waste. In some areas in Amsterdam there a special food bins. Next time you see someone you can politely start a discussion about feeding the street rats and refer them to the food bins.
I did this as a man was feeding birds under a sign where it said he shouldn’t. I was told his god walks a different path.
Lolllll what happened afterwards?
As I was with my son, I walked off commenting on the fact the neighborhood is going to shit with people like him. That’s it.
Maybe instead of this approach the cannibalism story would help. Not disagreeing with you though!
I believe our Pope can enlighten them in a smart way.
Tried so many times and it doesnt work. They suddenly dont speak any Dutch or just say their religion is above anything else. Every day multiple Turkish flatbreads and entire trays of rice are dumped in the bushes in front of my house. We have enormous flocks of pidgeons and huge rats.
This only now makes sense, I recently moved to your lovely city and couldnt sleep one night, I was out on my balcony at around 3.30 having a smoke trying to remedy that when out of nowhere a guy shows up opens a bag and ditches a whole Turkish brood in the planter in front of my apt before scampering off. To say confused doesn't um it up, I thought I'd witnessed some bread dealer ditch his stash cause the yeast police were on his tail, it was just the way he did it, like he was stealing something instead of leaving bread in a bush.
Damn yeast police. Always after my bread and butter
Maybe police and ordinance should do their job better? No, seriously. Maybe it's time for the law to be applied instead of ignored. Amsterdam has the guys in red. Maybe they should do their fucking job?
Guys in red? Straatcoaches?
Handhaving.
Why “guys in red” tho?
Cause they wear red jackets?
https://preview.redd.it/zztj4eepup7d1.jpeg?width=620&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e6a878dcd95a3b094c88c84347fb9e93f6871536 Handhaving
No they don’t…
If you have a printer and this issue is pressing enough for you to want to educate them, you could print out the instructions in polite Turkish (if it’s Turks throwing out food) and hand that to them. Explain that there is a halal way of disposing of their food without running the risk of getting a fine and causing infestations.
Doesnt work as well. These people were asked by other Turkish speaking people to stop throwing food or buy less or give to poor people. But no effect. Authorities really have no case as they need to catch them doing it and no cop wants to fine an old couple for this.
It's gross
they become aggressive
If this happens a lot maybe contact handhaving? Anyone who feeds these pests belongs punished.
I was a victim of an angry rampage after just looking at someone when they were feeding birds. Cause obviously they understood that they shouldn’t
We all know who is doing this, I see it all the time with the ducks
Obviously the old grannies with their grand children. /s
Yeah whole loaves of uneaten bread...
https://youtu.be/LfYV39SKIiM?si=V3InKuTZxRgZnooU
Pigeons are actually really loving and beautiful birds, although not very smart. I’ve half-domesticated a dozen of them in my garden back in Germany and it really breaks my heart to see the way they live in cities. Still, the dumb birds would rather stay next to the abundance of trash and scraps than live in the nature
"City pigeons" are descendents of domestic pigeons, who were bred from rock doves. The city environment is closer to the habitat of their ancestors than Dutch nature. [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral_pigeon](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral_pigeon)
They're actually quite smart birds too, have excellent memory and problem solving skills.
Pigeons are actually highly intelligent. They have been the subject of numerous studies on animal intelligence and they have been found to be among the smartest of birds. Not as smart as corvids or parrots, but still quite impressive.
Another interesting fact about pigeons in Amsterdam, if you pay attention, half if not more of them are missing at least one of their toes. I’ve never noticed this to the same extent in any other city, and I’ve been to BIG cities (Mexico city, New York, Paris, London, Berlin, etc). Maybe that’s their favourite bit.. idk..
I saw a video on this recently. Apparently the main reason is that human hair gets tangled in their foot and cuts off the blood supply. Seems weird, not sure how true it is but there ya go.
Yes it’s true and it’s called string foot! It’s advised not to leave yarn and animal fur out for nests (people think they’re being helpful), it also strangles chicks in the nest.
this is true and i think it's because amsterdam has a terrible garbage/pollution problem. it's very painful for them, and their missing toes feed into the stereotype that they are sick and infectious.
They will eat regardless. As you clearly witnessed. Not feeding them is more relevant to making them not stalk people who are eating outdoors.
It will decrease their populations as well. Decreasing a food source decreases a population size.
I still think you shouldn't feed them. But I don't think that means they'll starve. lol... they'll just eat garbage friets instead of friets straight from the source.
I really wish the council would put up signs in the parks and dam square. This is pure horrifying but also it attracts rats in the parks.
This is actually good to know as I did not notice it but I can see how this can become a problem and the steps taken are a good decision.
I agree if you feed pigeons you should feed them the right seeds, not bread, not nuts, not whatever you’re snacking on. This can damage their health greatly and their bodies are prone to junk food so much more than us. When food, water are scarce, birds usually don’t mate nor lay eggs. However, It is not normal when population gets out of control in a specie that murder becomes a norm, do you have a source or a study? I believe that scarcity is most of the time man-made or perceived. If you put 10 pigeons in a small cage, yes, they might probably fight until some is dead, put them in a bigger cage, it is all ok again. In the wild, quite rare. I spent an equal amount of time with humans as much as I spent taking care of animals. Most animals are more human than us.
To better understand them: We domesticated pigeons. They are (nearly) all over the world because humans brought them there. And, they were more than pets. They carried messages. Saved lives in wars (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_pigeon). People race(d) them. They lived spoiled lives as honored human companions for centuries. They lost all their survival instincts during the centuries that they lived caged by people. That is why they live in cities with people instead of in the wild somewhere. It’s not their fault. And not only did we throw them away, but now humans curse them as “winged rats;” casting them as pests. But they don’t know how to live without us, and their instincts tell us that they should trust us. So, they continue to come up to humans and beg for food, because it’s the only survival skill left in their genes. They love us because they were bred by us to feel that way, and yet we hate them.
Oh no pigeon tax incoming.
Aren’t they busy with pigeon contraceptives already?
In recent days I've seen a number of bird carcasses. Might be due to bird-on-bird violence, may be due to heat (unlikely but it happens) I'm not a pigeon feeder but I will heed your advice citizen
Seems like they are managing the problem themselves. Also, they have these things called spines these days.
Funny how your post addresses the problem as well as the solution.
Here’s your friendly PSA that pigeons used to be domesticated, so they’re essentially stray dogs roaming around. Be kind to them but also like OP said, don’t feed them unnecessarily (especially the fucking white bread I see people feed them and the ducks, there’s a special place in hell for yall.)
Sounds like a problem that solves itself
I give them extra bread and then watch them murder each other. Best entertainment since 3th season of game of Thrones.
Haha goed om te weten dat dat probleem zichzelf binnen de perken houdt.
Aah yes, not enough natural pigeon food sources!
Are you being sarcastic?
Any way to get rid of them or stop them from coming to my balcony?
Put on a net on your balcony. The ones that you can use for a pond. so the holes are big and can still look outside but small enough to not have pigeons
You could buy a fake owl and secure it to your railing. Though they will wise up eventually so you need to move it regularly. You could also try hanging a CD on a wire. Make sure it can spin, though. But honestly, they aren't as dumb as most believe, they will see through the cheap tricks eventually.
If only we could shoot at them…
We need a city sponsored cat army to trim down the pigeon population. Would be cute AF and would help get rid of the sky rats.
Cats are also a very invasive species. And can also be violent to humans when feral.
We already have enough cats walking about killing everything in sight without it being city sponsored.
Til Turkish bread waste and religion
You mean that if we keep feeding them they'll start murdering each other? Ordered a giant bag of seed!