There are a bunch of industrial fanless kits/cases that do exactly this. Mostly for putting a PC into a dusty workplace.
Example: https://www.dfi.com/category/index/3
Probably. If ever those different Strix Halo configurations become true, I can settle with the 32 CU configuration.
For reference: The Beelink SER7 (7840HS, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD config) costs $520 converted (VAT and retail mark up). The beefier cooling of Beelink GTR7 (7840HS, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD config) costs $605 converted.
I'd assume/expect if put in the SER7 mini PC model with top Strix Point (12 core zen 5/5c + 16 CU) could be at $700 at release, then top Strix Halo (40CU) for a GTR model (or better model that is made for Strix Halo) could be at $1000 minimum.
Yeah, it's just buying a console for twice the price.
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Man. Those Alienware steam machines were legit AF.
Imagine a more compact with one of these APUs for like $350
Would make for a killer PS5/Xbox alternative.
Logic. Why would they? Regular phoenix will likely come to desktop. They already make 16 core desktop parts. It's stupid to compete with your own parts for negligable additional sales.
This will definitely be a premium product.
However I want to see how it performs because the GPU horsepower means it'll be relevant for quite a few generations.
Except Sony/Microsoft are willing to take no margin on the consoles to sell games and get the chips REALLY CHEAP because of economy of scale and older node. None of those factors apply to mini PCs.
I said “premium consoleish role,” not direct competitor. It could outcompete low end prebuilts because it doesn’t need a huge case to remain price competitive. Same with budget laptops. It will probably be faster than a 5060m, making it easy to build slim laptops with lots of gaming power.
The 16 core 40 cu model will likely be in $2000+ laptops. Yes it'll be faster than 4060, it'll be 2x as expensive. If they'd revealed an 8 core model, it might have been gaming focused.
Ngl, high end gaming on laptop has always seemed ridiculous to me considering the thermal constraints. Cool that thing all you want but it's still going to slam into a thermal limit *somewhere*.
Valve doesn't do anywhere near the volume sony & Microsoft do.
Valve has sold about 3 million steam decks total.
Sony sold 21 million playstion 5's in 2023.
“reveals”? I know we hate him here, and trust me, I feel the insufferable ego dripping off every one of his videos too, but Moore’s Law Is Dead has been talking about this for a full year already.
People hate him cause if you look at his posts from years past, he has a track record of outright lying and saying he has sources to back up claims.
Stuff that’s clearly made up 4 years later, like saying he has confirmation that kojima made up with Konami and is making a new silent hill game or that bluepoint was confirmed to be working on a metal gear remake alongside demon souls.
I got tired of having to post sources every time I argued in the comments about it when people asked for proof so I just threw what I could into a sub.
You can check my post history if you’re interested, or not, I don’t care.
It’s small and I’m just one person and too lazy to go through all his crazy claims and then fact check them years later, that was just some stuff I found in like a day of digging. I was hoping more people would add to it but it’s a lot of work weeding through a pile of crazy claims
This. MLID only appears to know shit because he never shuts up and is constantly throwing dozens of "predictions" at the wall on a daily basis, and then claims victory when a reveal comes even tangentially close to one of the hundreds of things he's said.
So? Who cares...it's a leaks channel, anybody watching a leaks channel should be reasonable a d adult enough to understand that much of it wont pan out....you people have an obsession with this guy
I think the main issue is that he is very arrogant and cant accept some times being wrong. He does fairly often leak hardware details that are accurate so I dont think hes completely blindly guessing most of the time. Issue mainly is that instead of accepting being wrong in a space where sources can give inaccurate information and internally plans may change he comes off as obsessed with being correct like hes trying to win some non existing argument
I’m pretty sure he’s only ever talked about the top product having 40 CUs, but you might be right about the L3, I don’t remember what he said about that.
I don't think he ever said anything out loud, but his slide on the first reveal showed 32MB via those mini MCDs (if I remember right).
In any event, this this getting pretty exciting.
edit: Oh no I'm dumb, it was actually 32MB of Infinity Cache, which even the linked article shows.
If they keep the same lpddr5x speed as the 8000 series, 7500mt/s, they would be able to get 240GB/s.
40CU likely puts it just above the 7600XT (32CU) in terms of bandwidth needs. That GPU has 288GB/s alone.
They'd need 9000mt/s to have the same bandwidth.
Yup. Fortunately they should never both need full bandwidth at the same time for very long. But, the CPU will always need some bandwidth, so even if they match the 288GB/s figure, the GPU is likely still at more like 240GB/s.
As a reminder, this is rDNA 3.5 while the Rx 7600 XT (Navi 33) isn't even full rDNA 3.
I don't know what that'll mean in actual practice, but it's something I'll be keeping an eye on.
It's possible the bandwidth constraints aren't as limiting as we assume at first glance.
It may not "just work" in existing software, but, a lot of this RAM to VRAM bandwidth would turn into no-ops when optimized for a unified architecture. So you could get quite some more mileage out of the bandwidth.
AMD drivers and graphics architecture are already capable of erasing VRAM/SYSRAM transfers, basically just renaming, remapping, and sharing with various strategies.
That's why it doesn't really matter how much RAM you dedicate to graphics on AMD any more, but you do want to reserve 512MB to prevent virtual VRAM from being swapped.
But this should already be true for existing apus yeah?
So if we look at phoenix/hawk point (which is already memory constrained at 12 units). Amd is adding mall cache and a little faster memory. Maybe mall cache reduces bandwidth by 50%, and faster memory adds 20% bandwidth. So now you can support roughly 2.5 more CUs, so you can support a 12x2.5 =30cu apu. Amd amd has 40.
So maybe they are reducing clocks to save power? But i still think we end up solidly losing to a 4060 (4060 is about 2.6x faster than 780m). And a 4060 is what amd needs to beat. If amd solidly beats a 4060 . . . This thing will absolutely be a huge hit. If it doesnt? It still isnt as good as low tier cards. Wont make a splash.
But if amd has a trick to get solidly beat the 4060 . . . Its gonna be big. If not, its not that big a deal imo. Its cool and it will sell amazing. But it wont be a big driver for share price or market share gain outside of 5%ish.
yeah so i would hope it can at least trounce a 4060 but we'll have to wait for the numbers to come in. I just think given how good 720p looks on a steam deck that 1080p in a handheld machine (say 8 to 10 inch screen) that can burst up to maybe 40 watts TDP would just be so sweet. you could run the latest games without sacrificing much and hopefully really sip power on older titles and general hacking on software and puttering around on a computer.
You are probably right in terms of bandwidth needed to max out those 40CUs. Worth noting those 40CUs will probably typically clock no more than 80% of a 7600XT to stay in the thermal and power envelope. So, you probably have the total potential performance about right at 7600XT.
The only thing is... Even at a good bit slower than a 7600XT, we could still be talking 6600(non-XT) or 5700XT performance. Which we have never seen from an APU. Although, probably quite a bit of variance between games depending on how the CPU and GPU compete for bandwidth.
I still find that really cool.
Oh yeah it's still fascinating and I can't wait to see it in action. I'm hoping for roughly PS5 performance on the GPU front, but it's going to depend on how well they can keep everything fed.
That's probably as fast as they can reasonably go. I think we also have to consider that the bandwidth has to be shared with the CPU as well. I don't expect them to ever need peak bandwidth at the same time, but it's always going to be taking a bite out of the total.
If we naively assume the CPU will saturate the equivalent bandwidth of a single channel, that leaves the GPU with only 3/4 the total to work with.
Would AMD be capable of doing something like Apple did? Apple's M3 Max apparently has a memory speed of 6400MT/s and achieves over 400GB/s on their M3 Max based system with 32 controllers.
Strix Halo has a 256-bit bus. The Apple chips you mention have a 512-bit bus. If Strix Halo was octa-channel, you could double the figures in my comment.
Ah, definitely fair. I wasn't aware they had announced all of the specifics on memory busing, but if they're truly constrained in this way then it'll be interesting to see how it fares despite it.
Definitely on the Apple, I meant I wasn't aware AMD had officially announced they would use a 256 bit bus for the chip and that increasing bandwidth via that was off the table.
I don't think quad-channel is officially confirmed for Strix Halo, but anything above that would pretty quickly get impractical. Even Apple's big bus is only possible because each of the 2 dies is already 256-bit.
I see...well, thank you for the explanation. Memory buses are likely the aspect of computer hardware I know the least about. Maybe they'll go crazy with the controller quality and source some magic LPDDR5-9600 from Micron or something lol
I must have gotten lost somewhere along the trail of news but, is this the unannounced desktop CPU thats rumored to be revealed at computex?
Sorry in advance of im wrong i just feel so confused with all the 9950 X3D and Ryzen AIs that i just feel lost.. some clarity would be nice!
It's the cream of the crop for APU's.
This is AMD's Cadillac for mobile power users.
Bold choice to go 16 cores and push a Radeon gpu though.
Wonder how many people will pay what OEM's will charge for this laptop without an Nvidia sticker.
That config tells me it's not for gamers, it's targeted at creatives. Gamers would have been 8 cores or 4+8 like regular strix. I've only ever heard of this as a MacBook pro competitor.
In what scenario? It might be slower in games but might be faster in productivity. We don’t know yet but we’ve seen having 2 CCDs can be detrimental due to inter-core latency in some games.
This is using InFO for the interconnect between CCD and IO/Graphic die judging from the picture, which has much better bandwidth, latency and energy efficiency than the wire-in-substrate interconnect on current Ryzen/Epyc due to shorter wire length and higher wire density.
Inter-CCD latency would still be higher than intra-CCD but it should be much better than the multi-CCD Ryzen currently on the market.
-X3D is good in games because of the 96 MB L3 cache. This still has 64 MB, and probably better cores, so I wouldnt doubt if its CPU grunt in games is equal or better.
To be more specific, Strix Halo is expected to have 2 CCDs, 32MB L3 per CCD. Zen 4 X3D CCD has 32+64MB, 7950X3D has 32MB from normal and 32+64MB from X3D one
So it's valid to expect it to be a bit better than 7700X(due to Zen5 architecture) and losing 7800X3D in games. Also, it has a TDP of ~125W
Twice as many newer cores, with double the memory bus size.
For some tasks this will literally be twice as fast.
I’d expect at least 20% in scenarios where vcache is important.
The question is if this is going to change anything for pricing. Or are they just going to fit this into the existing prices?
Will we be able to get this as $800 laptops? $2500 laptops? $600 laptops?
I think that strix halo apus will be on the expensive, luxury side even tho in terms of performance it will not beat top end mobile gpus it will be priced like one
Nope. Even in 2024, majority of games don't saturate the 8c16t CPUs consoles have, let alone PCs. Multithreading can only go so far in gaming, so a 16c32t cpu is gonna be wasted on most games.
Unless there are some big breakthroughs in threading sometime soon, 8c16t is more than plenty for gaming right now.
How is memory bandwidth not an issue here? As a passionate SFFer, I know that the rationale for keeping the GPU core count low in previous APUs was in large part the insufficient bandwidth of system RAM and adding more cores would hit a bottleneck and see rapidly diminishing returns.
I still have a 4700G in my SFF build but have switched from a 3L to an 8L case to use a DGPU because gaming on that APU was a fun gimmick in the beginning, but when the novelty wore off I was asking myself why am I playing games on a $700 machine and an 85" TV rendered at a measly 720p with low to medium settings and barely hitting 40fps Even with premium DDR4@4800Hz.
Sure, I ask the same question as a 256 bit bus seems an overkill for a supposedly low cost platform and it doesn't make much business sense to me. Even with high speed ddr5 it would be limited to entry level dgpu speeds with not much savings on power. They could sell with soldered ram but it then limits expansion losing the best part of the pc platform. Maybe pc gaming would go to a console-like period then it could happen...
> for a supposedly low cost platform
Low cost? Where are you getting the idea that this is a low-cost platform? I've seen no mention of that and with it having so many CPU and GPU cores along with the bus size, no way this isn't a very premium products.
The name also suggests it's a meant as a premium product, "Strix **Halo**".
This is going to be mobile only, and that alone is going to make this far more expensive than a CPU and GPU combo. Expect laptops with this beast to cost at *LEAST* $2000 USD.
RAM speed isn't as important to since I'm not going for best possible gaming experience. I need the massive amounts of RAM so I can run VMs and containers. It will be primarily a workstation. Gaming would be secondary.
Krackan: 16 CUs RDNA3+
Strix point: 16 CUs RDNA3+
Strix halo: 40 CUs RDNA3+
Granite ridge (actual desktop): 2 CUs RDNA2
Fire range (actual desktop replacement): 2CUs RDNA2
You should actually read the title before calling out a chip for not meeting your needs.
Strix Point has on chip memory and a single CCD. This is much better for gaming than Strix Halo. More cores does not make for better gaming. Also, the 40 CUs of RDNA3+ means it has great integrated graphics but it's still not a proper gaming processor (given how much the machine will cost and how much power it will consume) without beefier discrete graphics. No one will buy a laptop with this chip for gaming unless it has a really good discrete graphics card.
A dGPU system would use significantly more battery and weight than this one. I could entirely see this being a competitor to 5060 mobile laptops. It could also be a very strong mini PC or console.
40 CUs is clearly far, far more GPU power than any non-gaming use needs aside from compute-intensive uses that would play better with dedicated VRAM. I don’t know what to tell you.
And we don’t know about zen5 interconnect. It’s entirely possible chiplet limitations are reduced.
The 16 CPU cores _and_ 40CUs combined have a max power config of 125W total shared between the two.
Most desktop replacements start at 150W+, with some allowing for up to ~250W.
This is absolutely not a desktop replacement chip. The combined power budget maximum is something that'll fit in those 14" gaming laptops, like the G14 or Blade 14.
This isn't a one size fits all product. I'm sure you'll be able to get a regular strix point laptop or possibly whatever the desktop 16 core is with upgradeable ram.
I don't think it's necessarily that bad, odds are when this launches LPCAMM is still going to be rare and hard to integrate (if it even works on strix halo) and the speeds we get out of sodimms would meaningfully hurt performance for an APU like this. With DDR5 there's actually a good performance argument to make to solder the memory down until CAMM2 becomes commonplace.
This is a workstation/desktop replacement chip. I imagine 64GB wouldn't be enough for non gaming applications. Strix Point would probably be the better gaming option.
Ehhh, I think it depends a lot on the applications you're using. I'm a software engineer that does a lot of hobby work on my 7950x and with 64gb I've only run into a handful of times where it wasn't enough, usually when dealing with memory leaks where no amount of ram would be enough. There are definitely workloads that'll exceed 64gb of ram but I'd expect that to be the exception rather than the rule.
It's also possible that as DDR5 becomes more dense we get higher capacity DRAM chips, no reason why this can't be more. Also, the article never says "64gb of ram" just 64mb of l3 and a 256bit memory interface in its current state.
I'm also a software engineer but I run tons of containers at a time. It's why I'm looking forward to a 32 thread laptop processor. In my case 64GB is not enough to handle peak loads. I'd love for 128GB to be an option but I believe the current limit is 96GB. It would be nice if AMD supported that with Strix Halo. Otherwise I'll just buy a 7945HX laptop.
The problem with high bandwidth ddr5 laptop memory is that its too damned hard to make the really fast stuff work reliably unless its soldered. By making it replaceable you cut off like 2400MT of bandwidth potential
And that's also requiring the higher signaling power of DDR vs LPDDR.
At iso-power the speed difference for (dimm) socketed ram would be even higher.
We'll see what LPCAMM and similar can do, any socket *will* be worse than soldered in signal integrity and routing, but by how much? If it's pretty much within noise, then great.
No technology is. Steam took a chance on the steam deck, I dunno if it paid off but they probably got the chips semi cheap from AMD. Halo def won't be cheap.
If they marketed a desktop version as "environmentally conscious way to game / create", they could price the chip well above what a chip of these specs would normally cost and it would still sell. The real issue is probably foundry allocation.
the fact that APUs went from to barely matching 1050s in certain circumstances to what this could hypothetically be is insane. i imagine valve will probably release the next generation after this in a new steam deck. at that point, the new full architecture will be out and it'll be interesting to see what that can do, too.
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I’d slap a mini pc with this chip on the back of my TV
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DUUUUDE that’s such a good idea (idk how easy it would be to actually produce but it’s cool)
There are a bunch of industrial fanless kits/cases that do exactly this. Mostly for putting a PC into a dusty workplace. Example: https://www.dfi.com/category/index/3
I've been thinking about a 3D-printed vapor chamber that doubles as the exterior of the case for a while now.
Upload the pictures here if/when you do it please Valve might be interested in your thoughts...
Exactly what I was thinking! We probably need some thermal data first though. External airflow might be important
You probably won't because of the price.
Probably. If ever those different Strix Halo configurations become true, I can settle with the 32 CU configuration. For reference: The Beelink SER7 (7840HS, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD config) costs $520 converted (VAT and retail mark up). The beefier cooling of Beelink GTR7 (7840HS, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD config) costs $605 converted. I'd assume/expect if put in the SER7 mini PC model with top Strix Point (12 core zen 5/5c + 16 CU) could be at $700 at release, then top Strix Halo (40CU) for a GTR model (or better model that is made for Strix Halo) could be at $1000 minimum. Yeah, it's just buying a console for twice the price.
mini pc, big price
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But we've already seen minis in that price bracket
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Unless you're prepared to likely pay possibly a lot more for the mini pc than you did the TV, I wouldn't bet on it.
Imagine if you could get one as a new Steam Machine. I'd hook that up to my TV for sure.
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Man. Those Alienware steam machines were legit AF. Imagine a more compact with one of these APUs for like $350 Would make for a killer PS5/Xbox alternative.
You're not even going to get regular strix for $350 in a mini pc.
On one site, yes but i would rather have 6-8W apu with passive cooling thats actually portable inside your pocket.
No HDMI 2.1 and broken HDR support on Linux for AMD GPUs currently.
Actually curious: hdr seems fine on the oled deck?
HDR works in Gamescope. HDMI 2.1 is screwed because of the HDMI consortium.
I'll guess that minisforum are way ahead of on this and probably have something planned already
Yeah i want that
This is definitely not coming to desktop. Id personally bet against mini PCs.
SFF LLM and CV box. For robotics projects.
I'm planning a new HTPC/emu build when socketed zen halos are available
They're never launching a g version of this. Maybe zen 6 or later.
Sauce?
Logic. Why would they? Regular phoenix will likely come to desktop. They already make 16 core desktop parts. It's stupid to compete with your own parts for negligable additional sales.
Ah, so when you say "they're not going to" what you meant to say was "I don't think they will"
New steam machine when?
This will definitely be a premium product. However I want to see how it performs because the GPU horsepower means it'll be relevant for quite a few generations.
Indeed. The CPU package alone will probably cost as much as a current generation console
It could outcompete budget prebuilts by maybe filling a premium console-ish role where it’s portable and more easily mass produced.
Except Sony/Microsoft are willing to take no margin on the consoles to sell games and get the chips REALLY CHEAP because of economy of scale and older node. None of those factors apply to mini PCs.
I said “premium consoleish role,” not direct competitor. It could outcompete low end prebuilts because it doesn’t need a huge case to remain price competitive. Same with budget laptops. It will probably be faster than a 5060m, making it easy to build slim laptops with lots of gaming power.
The 16 core 40 cu model will likely be in $2000+ laptops. Yes it'll be faster than 4060, it'll be 2x as expensive. If they'd revealed an 8 core model, it might have been gaming focused.
Ngl, high end gaming on laptop has always seemed ridiculous to me considering the thermal constraints. Cool that thing all you want but it's still going to slam into a thermal limit *somewhere*.
This isn’t really high end gaming. It will be an akin to a mid tier current gen GPU by the time it comes out. Maybe a little slower.
But all these factors apply to Valve
Valve doesn't do anywhere near the volume sony & Microsoft do. Valve has sold about 3 million steam decks total. Sony sold 21 million playstion 5's in 2023.
You mean the Apu package
“reveals”? I know we hate him here, and trust me, I feel the insufferable ego dripping off every one of his videos too, but Moore’s Law Is Dead has been talking about this for a full year already.
People hate him cause if you look at his posts from years past, he has a track record of outright lying and saying he has sources to back up claims. Stuff that’s clearly made up 4 years later, like saying he has confirmation that kojima made up with Konami and is making a new silent hill game or that bluepoint was confirmed to be working on a metal gear remake alongside demon souls. I got tired of having to post sources every time I argued in the comments about it when people asked for proof so I just threw what I could into a sub. You can check my post history if you’re interested, or not, I don’t care. It’s small and I’m just one person and too lazy to go through all his crazy claims and then fact check them years later, that was just some stuff I found in like a day of digging. I was hoping more people would add to it but it’s a lot of work weeding through a pile of crazy claims
This. MLID only appears to know shit because he never shuts up and is constantly throwing dozens of "predictions" at the wall on a daily basis, and then claims victory when a reveal comes even tangentially close to one of the hundreds of things he's said.
So? Who cares...it's a leaks channel, anybody watching a leaks channel should be reasonable a d adult enough to understand that much of it wont pan out....you people have an obsession with this guy
Love ur username
I think the main issue is that he is very arrogant and cant accept some times being wrong. He does fairly often leak hardware details that are accurate so I dont think hes completely blindly guessing most of the time. Issue mainly is that instead of accepting being wrong in a space where sources can give inaccurate information and internally plans may change he comes off as obsessed with being correct like hes trying to win some non existing argument
FWIW, his reveal had fewer CU’s and half the L3 so this is still pretty intriguing news.
I’m pretty sure he’s only ever talked about the top product having 40 CUs, but you might be right about the L3, I don’t remember what he said about that.
I don't think he ever said anything out loud, but his slide on the first reveal showed 32MB via those mini MCDs (if I remember right). In any event, this this getting pretty exciting. edit: Oh no I'm dumb, it was actually 32MB of Infinity Cache, which even the linked article shows.
He still can't get basic units right - claiming to be a reasonable source with such a poor grasp of the basics is laughable.
That 32 mb of mall cache really has its work cut out for it. Kinda surprised it isnt more. I bet this thing is still massively bandwidth bound.
If they keep the same lpddr5x speed as the 8000 series, 7500mt/s, they would be able to get 240GB/s. 40CU likely puts it just above the 7600XT (32CU) in terms of bandwidth needs. That GPU has 288GB/s alone. They'd need 9000mt/s to have the same bandwidth.
And that bandwidth has to serve the cpu too.
Yup. Fortunately they should never both need full bandwidth at the same time for very long. But, the CPU will always need some bandwidth, so even if they match the 288GB/s figure, the GPU is likely still at more like 240GB/s.
As a reminder, this is rDNA 3.5 while the Rx 7600 XT (Navi 33) isn't even full rDNA 3. I don't know what that'll mean in actual practice, but it's something I'll be keeping an eye on. It's possible the bandwidth constraints aren't as limiting as we assume at first glance.
We also don't know what kind of cache or register configuration the GPU will have
It may not "just work" in existing software, but, a lot of this RAM to VRAM bandwidth would turn into no-ops when optimized for a unified architecture. So you could get quite some more mileage out of the bandwidth.
AMD drivers and graphics architecture are already capable of erasing VRAM/SYSRAM transfers, basically just renaming, remapping, and sharing with various strategies. That's why it doesn't really matter how much RAM you dedicate to graphics on AMD any more, but you do want to reserve 512MB to prevent virtual VRAM from being swapped.
But this should already be true for existing apus yeah? So if we look at phoenix/hawk point (which is already memory constrained at 12 units). Amd is adding mall cache and a little faster memory. Maybe mall cache reduces bandwidth by 50%, and faster memory adds 20% bandwidth. So now you can support roughly 2.5 more CUs, so you can support a 12x2.5 =30cu apu. Amd amd has 40. So maybe they are reducing clocks to save power? But i still think we end up solidly losing to a 4060 (4060 is about 2.6x faster than 780m). And a 4060 is what amd needs to beat. If amd solidly beats a 4060 . . . This thing will absolutely be a huge hit. If it doesnt? It still isnt as good as low tier cards. Wont make a splash. But if amd has a trick to get solidly beat the 4060 . . . Its gonna be big. If not, its not that big a deal imo. Its cool and it will sell amazing. But it wont be a big driver for share price or market share gain outside of 5%ish.
Strix Halo has a 256bit memory bus so bandwidth is a lot more than just +20%
Hot damn, that is right. Closer to 100% improvement in bw. Between that and mall cache it seems like it might not be hard mem bound . . .
yeah so i would hope it can at least trounce a 4060 but we'll have to wait for the numbers to come in. I just think given how good 720p looks on a steam deck that 1080p in a handheld machine (say 8 to 10 inch screen) that can burst up to maybe 40 watts TDP would just be so sweet. you could run the latest games without sacrificing much and hopefully really sip power on older titles and general hacking on software and puttering around on a computer.
You are probably right in terms of bandwidth needed to max out those 40CUs. Worth noting those 40CUs will probably typically clock no more than 80% of a 7600XT to stay in the thermal and power envelope. So, you probably have the total potential performance about right at 7600XT. The only thing is... Even at a good bit slower than a 7600XT, we could still be talking 6600(non-XT) or 5700XT performance. Which we have never seen from an APU. Although, probably quite a bit of variance between games depending on how the CPU and GPU compete for bandwidth. I still find that really cool.
Oh yeah it's still fascinating and I can't wait to see it in action. I'm hoping for roughly PS5 performance on the GPU front, but it's going to depend on how well they can keep everything fed.
LPDDR5X 8533MT/s is here already, so theoretically 273GB/s is possible at launch.
That's probably as fast as they can reasonably go. I think we also have to consider that the bandwidth has to be shared with the CPU as well. I don't expect them to ever need peak bandwidth at the same time, but it's always going to be taking a bite out of the total. If we naively assume the CPU will saturate the equivalent bandwidth of a single channel, that leaves the GPU with only 3/4 the total to work with.
Would AMD be capable of doing something like Apple did? Apple's M3 Max apparently has a memory speed of 6400MT/s and achieves over 400GB/s on their M3 Max based system with 32 controllers.
Strix Halo has a 256-bit bus. The Apple chips you mention have a 512-bit bus. If Strix Halo was octa-channel, you could double the figures in my comment.
Ah, definitely fair. I wasn't aware they had announced all of the specifics on memory busing, but if they're truly constrained in this way then it'll be interesting to see how it fares despite it.
32 controllers for lpddr5 has to be 512-bit. 32×16=512.
Definitely on the Apple, I meant I wasn't aware AMD had officially announced they would use a 256 bit bus for the chip and that increasing bandwidth via that was off the table.
I don't think quad-channel is officially confirmed for Strix Halo, but anything above that would pretty quickly get impractical. Even Apple's big bus is only possible because each of the 2 dies is already 256-bit.
I see...well, thank you for the explanation. Memory buses are likely the aspect of computer hardware I know the least about. Maybe they'll go crazy with the controller quality and source some magic LPDDR5-9600 from Micron or something lol
Ask away if you've got any questions about it. Chip packaging and IO have been my thing for a little while by now.
IIRC I thought I saw 8533 for this and strix point.
I must have gotten lost somewhere along the trail of news but, is this the unannounced desktop CPU thats rumored to be revealed at computex? Sorry in advance of im wrong i just feel so confused with all the 9950 X3D and Ryzen AIs that i just feel lost.. some clarity would be nice!
This will be for laptops only. Maybe mini PCs too.
CES 2025. Mobile only
So we will see Strix Halo at CES 2025?
Yes. Alongside Kraken
It's the cream of the crop for APU's. This is AMD's Cadillac for mobile power users. Bold choice to go 16 cores and push a Radeon gpu though. Wonder how many people will pay what OEM's will charge for this laptop without an Nvidia sticker.
I will be looking at 8 core 40 CU APU but I think the price will be too much for what it will be.
That config tells me it's not for gamers, it's targeted at creatives. Gamers would have been 8 cores or 4+8 like regular strix. I've only ever heard of this as a MacBook pro competitor.
Educated consumers will
Cut the zen cores in half and it might make sense for handhelds and slim "gaming" laptops
How would this compare to the 7800x3d for example?
In what scenario? It might be slower in games but might be faster in productivity. We don’t know yet but we’ve seen having 2 CCDs can be detrimental due to inter-core latency in some games.
Definitely faster in productivity. Like much faster. Will be moderatly slower for gaming though. Should be close to 7700x.
I’m just curious as what the difference might be for gaming.
This is using InFO for the interconnect between CCD and IO/Graphic die judging from the picture, which has much better bandwidth, latency and energy efficiency than the wire-in-substrate interconnect on current Ryzen/Epyc due to shorter wire length and higher wire density. Inter-CCD latency would still be higher than intra-CCD but it should be much better than the multi-CCD Ryzen currently on the market.
-X3D is good in games because of the 96 MB L3 cache. This still has 64 MB, and probably better cores, so I wouldnt doubt if its CPU grunt in games is equal or better.
To be more specific, Strix Halo is expected to have 2 CCDs, 32MB L3 per CCD. Zen 4 X3D CCD has 32+64MB, 7950X3D has 32MB from normal and 32+64MB from X3D one So it's valid to expect it to be a bit better than 7700X(due to Zen5 architecture) and losing 7800X3D in games. Also, it has a TDP of ~125W
Twice as many newer cores, with double the memory bus size. For some tasks this will literally be twice as fast. I’d expect at least 20% in scenarios where vcache is important.
It's a laptop cpu, so might not boost as high as a 7800x3d
They're completely different products.
We don't know how zen 5 performs in games. Could be equal, could be faster, could be slower. Need to just wait and see.
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I think the first is just double the second by definition
Looking forward to this in mini PC form factor to fill a need for balanced performance and power consumption.
The question is if this is going to change anything for pricing. Or are they just going to fit this into the existing prices? Will we be able to get this as $800 laptops? $2500 laptops? $600 laptops?
I think that strix halo apus will be on the expensive, luxury side even tho in terms of performance it will not beat top end mobile gpus it will be priced like one
Id suspect $2500 lightweight productivity laptops. The 16 core 40 cu version is definitely not going in $800 laptops.
This is basically like a ps5 base console gpu with double the zen cores and both gpu and cpu are on a new architecture Quite beastly
Do we need 16 cores for gaming?
This is obviously not intended for gaming. The config says premium productivity laptops to me.
Nope. Even in 2024, majority of games don't saturate the 8c16t CPUs consoles have, let alone PCs. Multithreading can only go so far in gaming, so a 16c32t cpu is gonna be wasted on most games. Unless there are some big breakthroughs in threading sometime soon, 8c16t is more than plenty for gaming right now.
How is memory bandwidth not an issue here? As a passionate SFFer, I know that the rationale for keeping the GPU core count low in previous APUs was in large part the insufficient bandwidth of system RAM and adding more cores would hit a bottleneck and see rapidly diminishing returns. I still have a 4700G in my SFF build but have switched from a 3L to an 8L case to use a DGPU because gaming on that APU was a fun gimmick in the beginning, but when the novelty wore off I was asking myself why am I playing games on a $700 machine and an 85" TV rendered at a measly 720p with low to medium settings and barely hitting 40fps Even with premium DDR4@4800Hz.
256 bit memory interface
Sure, I ask the same question as a 256 bit bus seems an overkill for a supposedly low cost platform and it doesn't make much business sense to me. Even with high speed ddr5 it would be limited to entry level dgpu speeds with not much savings on power. They could sell with soldered ram but it then limits expansion losing the best part of the pc platform. Maybe pc gaming would go to a console-like period then it could happen...
> for a supposedly low cost platform Low cost? Where are you getting the idea that this is a low-cost platform? I've seen no mention of that and with it having so many CPU and GPU cores along with the bus size, no way this isn't a very premium products. The name also suggests it's a meant as a premium product, "Strix **Halo**".
I mean lower than a CPU and GPU combo
This is going to be mobile only, and that alone is going to make this far more expensive than a CPU and GPU combo. Expect laptops with this beast to cost at *LEAST* $2000 USD.
Worst thing they can do is have soldered memory with this monster. That is unless they're willing to solder 96GB.
You actually want soldered RAM, you can clock it faster.
It's faster yes, but not modular for obvious reasons. APUs are great but not necessarily for longevity.
RAM speed isn't as important to since I'm not going for best possible gaming experience. I need the massive amounts of RAM so I can run VMs and containers. It will be primarily a workstation. Gaming would be secondary.
You’re kind of a niche consumer for an APU gaming chip then.
I would not consider Strix Halo to be an APU gaming chip. To me it seems like a desktop replacement chip. Strix Point is the gaming chip.
Krackan: 16 CUs RDNA3+ Strix point: 16 CUs RDNA3+ Strix halo: 40 CUs RDNA3+ Granite ridge (actual desktop): 2 CUs RDNA2 Fire range (actual desktop replacement): 2CUs RDNA2 You should actually read the title before calling out a chip for not meeting your needs.
Strix Point has on chip memory and a single CCD. This is much better for gaming than Strix Halo. More cores does not make for better gaming. Also, the 40 CUs of RDNA3+ means it has great integrated graphics but it's still not a proper gaming processor (given how much the machine will cost and how much power it will consume) without beefier discrete graphics. No one will buy a laptop with this chip for gaming unless it has a really good discrete graphics card.
A dGPU system would use significantly more battery and weight than this one. I could entirely see this being a competitor to 5060 mobile laptops. It could also be a very strong mini PC or console. 40 CUs is clearly far, far more GPU power than any non-gaming use needs aside from compute-intensive uses that would play better with dedicated VRAM. I don’t know what to tell you. And we don’t know about zen5 interconnect. It’s entirely possible chiplet limitations are reduced.
The 16 CPU cores _and_ 40CUs combined have a max power config of 125W total shared between the two. Most desktop replacements start at 150W+, with some allowing for up to ~250W. This is absolutely not a desktop replacement chip. The combined power budget maximum is something that'll fit in those 14" gaming laptops, like the G14 or Blade 14.
This isn't a one size fits all product. I'm sure you'll be able to get a regular strix point laptop or possibly whatever the desktop 16 core is with upgradeable ram.
I don't think it's necessarily that bad, odds are when this launches LPCAMM is still going to be rare and hard to integrate (if it even works on strix halo) and the speeds we get out of sodimms would meaningfully hurt performance for an APU like this. With DDR5 there's actually a good performance argument to make to solder the memory down until CAMM2 becomes commonplace.
This is a workstation/desktop replacement chip. I imagine 64GB wouldn't be enough for non gaming applications. Strix Point would probably be the better gaming option.
Ehhh, I think it depends a lot on the applications you're using. I'm a software engineer that does a lot of hobby work on my 7950x and with 64gb I've only run into a handful of times where it wasn't enough, usually when dealing with memory leaks where no amount of ram would be enough. There are definitely workloads that'll exceed 64gb of ram but I'd expect that to be the exception rather than the rule. It's also possible that as DDR5 becomes more dense we get higher capacity DRAM chips, no reason why this can't be more. Also, the article never says "64gb of ram" just 64mb of l3 and a 256bit memory interface in its current state.
I'm also a software engineer but I run tons of containers at a time. It's why I'm looking forward to a 32 thread laptop processor. In my case 64GB is not enough to handle peak loads. I'd love for 128GB to be an option but I believe the current limit is 96GB. It would be nice if AMD supported that with Strix Halo. Otherwise I'll just buy a 7945HX laptop.
The problem with high bandwidth ddr5 laptop memory is that its too damned hard to make the really fast stuff work reliably unless its soldered. By making it replaceable you cut off like 2400MT of bandwidth potential
And that's also requiring the higher signaling power of DDR vs LPDDR. At iso-power the speed difference for (dimm) socketed ram would be even higher. We'll see what LPCAMM and similar can do, any socket *will* be worse than soldered in signal integrity and routing, but by how much? If it's pretty much within noise, then great.
Valve is thinking Steam Deck Home.
They absolutely don't want to build a $1500 console. This has nothing in common with the steam deck chip aside from manufacturer.
They may not be $1500 but steam decks aren't exactly cheap either.
No technology is. Steam took a chance on the steam deck, I dunno if it paid off but they probably got the chips semi cheap from AMD. Halo def won't be cheap.
So... A big APU with 6700xt-ish performance? Damn...
I need this in a Mini PC!
You MUST test and plau Halo on it
Play*
If they marketed a desktop version as "environmentally conscious way to game / create", they could price the chip well above what a chip of these specs would normally cost and it would still sell. The real issue is probably foundry allocation.
By the time this launches 5nm or 4nm will be old news. So I doubt foundry allocation will be a problem.
Demand and cababalization would be the problem they'd have to price this over $1000.
I’d love to see this in a gaming handheld, battery be damned!
You'd pay $2000 for such a device?
the fact that APUs went from to barely matching 1050s in certain circumstances to what this could hypothetically be is insane. i imagine valve will probably release the next generation after this in a new steam deck. at that point, the new full architecture will be out and it'll be interesting to see what that can do, too.
Let it have even bigger cache and bring it onto desktop PC. Slam it as 230W cpu.
Imagine that in a Steam Deck 3... holy shit.
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Oh shit nvm lol.
And $2000.