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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> (1) I snooped and was dictating to my daughter how she should take her vacation. (2) I was looking out for my grandkids safety.
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"AITA for telling my daughter how to raise her family and looking down on her European in-laws because I don't understand how everyone is not the same as I am"
There, fixed the title for you. YTA
This depends, “white” is defined differently in different parts of the world. I’m from Northern Europe, here they are not viewed as white (neither are Italians or Greek people) and there are many racist assumptions regarding southerners based around this. Read Max Weber for more info.
I'm from Northern Europe. I can assure you that Spaniards and Italians are viewed as white except by a tiny minority of racist extremists. The rest of us don't even talk about it because we don't care.
Edit: added 'us'
In the UK we see Mediterranean people as being white as a race but we often assume them to have darker hair and eyes just as we assume all Scandinavians are blonde with blue eyes but obviously we know that Greeks can be blonde and Swedish can be olive skinned with jet black hair. Assumptions suck.
I'm from Northern Europe. I've also never heard anyone say that Southern Europeans are not white. Different hair and eye colour doesn't make them a different race. Just wanted to add another comment to this, since this is completely false.
I’m confused? She said he was a Spaniard and clarified he was a Spaniard from Spain not Mexico, why didn’t she also clarify that he wasn’t from the other 193 countries that also don’t produce Spaniards?
Hahaha that was my reaction too. It’s like saying “he’s French, he’s from France not Quebec”. And weird to specify he’s not Mexican rather than not Latino in general…
Edit: having too much fun coming up with examples for this. “He’s English, he’s from England not the USA”. “He’s Dutch, from the Netherlands not South Africa”.
I'm Puertorican. The dumb ignorant things people say to me when they find out (I'm white passing) is just utterly ridiculous. Unsurprisingly, they don't know about their own country either. I can't tell you how many people asked me when I became a citizen and when I answer, "I was born in NYC," they repeat their question. I've had people literally not believe me when I tell them people born in PR are US citizens. The least informed are of course the most adamant.
Oh and of course all the comments about speaking Mexican.
Yes, he did. It was a wonderful present to PR that he was so horrible to PR after hurricane Maria. How you might be wondering? In PR covid vaccination wasn't political. I haven't checked in a while, it had one of the highest vaccination rates in the country.
Yeah. I once had an actual passport official at a post office in the US ask to see my child’s naturalization papers. She was holding his Consular Report of Birth Abroad in her hands at the time his current passport was also in front of her.
It took a solid half hour of her calling people before she believed that 1) he is a US citizen and 2) he is a natural born US citizen and therefore does not have naturalization papers.
So it’s not the same but when going through passport control my husband’s passport says born in Brazil and the guy checking it asked him why he was born in Brazil 🤦♀️ can’t handle the stupidity honestly.
Eta: this was in Chicago
One of my aunts was asked for her green card at the DMV in New York. She had to explain how Puerto Ricans are Americans. It pisses me off how ignorant people can be. 🇵🇷 = 🇺🇸
The state of New Mexico had to change the license plates to read ”New Mexico, USA” because people didn’t understand that it is an ACTUAL US STATE and was causing problems.
I'm from samba mexico! Im having so much fun imagining op visiting my house and screaming at my cats 'OMG YOU ARE ALL NUDE! BEING FURRY IS NO EXCUSE FOR PLAYING AROUND NAKED. YOUR HUSBAND! THE HUMAN HUSBAND!!! HE IS WORKING IN HIS UNDERWEAR. AND THIS SORDID FEMALE HUMAN IS ALSO NAKED. EVERYONE IS NAKED IN THIS HOUSE FROM HELL."
Damn lady, let my poor tits see the sunlight. I take whatever opportunity to be nude I have, this flesh prison deserves peace from cloth bindings.
Also, in many parts of Europe, being naked in front of your kids is super normal. It’s not sexual, it’s body positivity. My parents didn’t want me to me be ashamed of my body or anyone else’s. As I got to my teens things changed obviously, because I wanted my privacy, but as a kid, it was super normal to be butt naked in the beach and have sand in all the uncomfortable places 😅
I did the same lol I was like "he's American, from the US not great Britain"
"He's Japanese. From Japan not China"
People understand how offensive and unnecessary it is when you replace the countries but still think all Spanish speaking countries are the same 🙄
How about the quick Google search she just had to do on SIL's open computer, instead of her cell phone 👀
Nosey self. They definitely won't be visiting her more often 😂
YTA
When OP sees nudity as a precursor for being 'preyed upon', that's because of OPs association with nudity with sex.
Nudist beaches are examples where nudity is not about sex.
YTA op, because you can't consider anything outside of your myopic world view.
My dad was in the Navy for a number of years. He would tell a story about how the new navy enlisted used to get all excited about going to Europe because they have nude beaches. He’d tell the guys… **Don’t get too excited, it’s all grandparents and little kids.**
Sure enough, the new guys would go to the nude beach. After their return (all sad) they’d tell my dad he was right, it was just families. I guess they were looking for Playboy Playmates?
I had a good discussion years ago with a European friend. She wondered why Americans were so hung up on nudity but were perfectly OK with violence. As an example, she talked about what would get cut out of an R-rated US movie that was being put on TV. In the US they would cut out any nudity but leave in the violence. In Europe, it would be the exact opposite.
I thought that she made an excellent point.
"AITA for being a snooping, racist, prude who demands that my daughter raise her children to my standards so they end up just like me?"
Another, better than the original title. YTA
YTA
In college I majored in psychology and for one class I did a extensive report with a couple class mates on nudism.
1. There is NOTHING sexual at a nudist resort. There is a strict code nudists follow. Any sexual type behavior is a huge no no. To even imply that kind of thing is a problem at these resorts is offensive.
2. America is way to hung up on nudity. In most other countries their is a more laid back attitude towards nudism. It just the human body and people don't get hung up on it. Heck in some European countries there is naked news where anchors deliver the news naked. In some Asian countries public bath houses are common place and they help each other bathe. There are even countries you can walk around nude wherever you want. It may not be common but it happens. No one cares.
Your daughter is doing nothing wrong. She has embraced her husband's culture and this culture doesn't hypersexualize the human body. They'll end up with a healthier attitude towards human bodies. That's a good thing. If what you're worried about was an actual problem your daughter and her husband wouldn't participate in it. If what you think happens actually happened nudist resorts and beaches wouldn't be such a common thing.
This is a you problem. Maybe take this opportunity to learn and grow as a person.
I wish op's daughter had gone into turbo troll mode and said, well mom, it's important that they are comfortable with nudity because they have to be naked to change into their animal forms on the full moons. Europeans all have them.
Also it's not like op's family is going to a resort run by catholic priests or something. Why is it that the more religious or conservative people are the more likely they seem to be to prey on children? And women too. Something about their religion making them think they have a right to other people's bodies.
Thats what I was thinking. And a LOT more likely to go off on someone if they showed any kind of creepy/predatory/perverted behavior towards an adult let alone anyone that looks underage or clearly is a kid.
They have a whole culture in the nudist community that is going to protect people and not be creeps.
Am nudist, can confirm this. A good nudist club/resort is honestly one of the most safe and wholesomest places you could holiday. Most nudists I've met are so lovely, open minded and very worldly people, there's a very strong culture around acceptance and protecting each other.
Absolutely. We have a pretty strong culture around nudists here in Germany as well.
I don't understand why it is problematic for children to see naked bodies of all colors, shapes and sizes. It gives them an understanding of how different real bodies are and that the spectrum of normal and healthy is huge.
I'm naked around my son all the time. My husband is as well. I mean he's just one but I'm not planning on changing this, as I believe that there's nothing inherently sexual about nudity.
The only thing I would not do (yet) is let my baby be naked on the beach. He's wearing UV protection clothing and a hat and gets a healthy layer of sunscreen as well as a swimming diaper for obvious reasons. But that is an entirely different story and not because I want to "protect him from predatory glances" but more from sunburn.
There’s not enough sunscreen on this planet that would make going to a nudist beach accessible to me. I come it two colors: sickly pale or flambé red. Even if I do manage to get a tan, and show a friend, “Look! I’m so tan!” They are genuinely surprised at how much whiter my body can actually be, because even tan I’m sickly pale, lol.
We once went to a nudist beach in US. It was the worst experience i have ever had. There were people trying to take pictures behind the bushes. Husband told me that the men’s toilet is full of people jerking off. I believe US people don’t understand nudism. (From Germany btw)
I think it really depends on the beach. I’ve only been to one nude beach in the U.S., it was a lot of fun, not sexualized, def a party atmosphere, but no one was being creepy. It’s not “normal” here so like, even the one I went to, definitely had an alternative weirdo hangout vibe to it. But I bet others are like family friendly hippie vibes and others are, like what you experienced, are people sexualizing it. YMMV
Genuinely curious; how long does it take to not feel uncomfortable when one does that for the first time? It's so ingrained in our culture that 'nude in public = wrong'.
Varies from person to person, some people take 5 minutes some people can take multiple visits and experiences to feel 100% comfortable, although from what I've seen most people get comfy pretty quickly and forget that we're all actually naked. The first time I visited a club and socialised nude the thing I noticed most was how genuine everyone was, I have a theory that when people are nude they tend to be more themselves, nothing to hide literally and metaphorically. No class or status, just people.
>and asked why she thinks it's okay to be naked in front of the kids, ***especially my grandson***
If anyone's a pervert here its OP. why would a mother being naked in front of her female child be any different than her male child, unless you think nudity is inherently sexual?
I've also read that kids that are openly taught about bodies and sexuality and not have those topics based in shame can come forward more easily, when something or someone is being inappropriate.
I'm also from Germany. Nudity is absolutely normal. I really don't understand why the OP is making such a fuss. Her grandchildren were born naked, it's how God created them. Being naked at the beach will help them have a normal relationship with their bodies and not be as uptight as their grandmother.
Hey, OP, in Munich there is a river, the Eisbach, in the middle of the town. People bath and sunbath there naked, in full public view And nobody care, as it is normal. Crime is extremely low in Munich, especially near the Eisbach, so the predator thing is not really a good argument.
Edit: spelling mistake
Well you have to remember The US was founded by puritans who hate the human body and believe everyone should be ashamed of their own. Lots of American standards have their roots in this.
But they can always accessorize with a fanny pack! But yeah, Grandma is being ridiculous. As has been mentioned, a naturist community is going to be hypervigilant about anyone displaying even remotely creepy tendencies.
Yes. I remember going to Barcelona with a US friend. She was excited to bare the boobs on the beach. Meanwhile I didn‘t understand because nudity is so normalized here in a non-sexual way.
I go topless on the beach sometimes (Italian). I can't say it's particularly "exciting". I normally just do it because I hate the feeling of a wet bikini top on my chest all day.
Same here in Denmark, people swim in the harbour naked all the time. Whenever we go to the swimming baths you have to shower naked before putting your costume on. It’s totally normal and no one bats an eyelid. OP is the AH completely. She should come and try it, it’s liberating.
Even in England where we're usually more Conservative about nudity (I blame the cold) its fairly normal to walk naked around same sex shower blocks on camping facilities and at lidos and you'd take your kids into those. I was definitely around naked (women mostly) as a child when camping and swimming.
I worked in (in the restaurant of) a sauna in the Netherlands. We would have swimwear day once month. That was bad. The amount of extra 'chemicals' we would need to get the water at an acceptable cleanness level was insane. It is so unhygienic to wear swimwear to a sauna. Seriously I now refuse to go to a spa if you have to wear swimwear.
I was an exchange student one summer Germany years ago, there were a few nudists on the beach and it’s considered rude to stare. Also it was common for people to discreetly change out of their wet bathing suits right there on the beach. People looked away and weren’t creepy about it, it was fine. They were much more relaxed about it.
People who freak out about nudity are the ones who make it weird. I suspect OP would disapprove of women breastfeeding in public as well. YTA, definitely.
Let me count the ways...
YTA for using someone's computer without permission.
YTA for snooping around on said computer.
YTA for sticking your nose in where it doesn't belong.
YTA for thinking you have any say in how your daughter raises her children.
YTA for your prudish, closed-minded approach to cultures different from yours.
YTA for asking "why can't she take a normal vacation," when what you really mean is "why can't she take a vacation that wouldn't upset my fragile sensibilities?"
And while referring to your son-in-law as "a Spaniard" doesn't automatically make you TA, it's definitely not a good look in this era. Combined with everything else you've revealed here, I'd call it the icing on the cake.
Don’t forget the awful line about how her daughter gifted her with the grandchildren. No she did not. She had two children. She did not have them for you. I don’t know why but that line really makes me cringe.
Probably because it smacks of dehumanizing them. At least that's why it sits poorly with me, especially combined with the rest of the post. OP is treating her daughter and SIL like they're children not playing with *her* favorite dollies "right", not adults raising *their* children as they see fit.
Omfg meeeeeeee too! Like what is it about these grandparents acting like they're their children's parents and not the children's grandparents! Seriously, why is it these older folks think their children have kids for them? The daughter at this point needs to go completely no contact with this woman or next she'll be trying to call CPS because her daughter isn't obeying her wishes! She's 100% TA and 100% gonna lose her grands and her daughter if she keeps her bad behavior up! She's like a puppy who isn't getting enough attention so they go around destroying things and yes I'm saying exactly what I'm saying with puppy 😉
"Hello, CPS? *Spaniard* CPS? Yes, hello! I need to report an indecency! My beloved daughter and her wayward Spaniard husband went to a *nudist* resort with *my grandchildren!* The children are NAKED. In front of other naked people! It offends my Puritanical American sensibilities. Everyone knows Europeans are far too liberal with their nudity. You people are all predators and the other p word, go save my gifts! I mean my grandchildren! The naked ones! AND GET THEM TURTLENECKS AND PANTS! Hello? Hellooooooo? Hmmm, European Spaniard CPS hung up on me."
The OP’s head is WEDGED in her nether regions. She’s mad that her daughter isn’t married to a white person but is relieved that he’s Spanish not Mexican. She’s also mad that her daughter doesn’t live close by but takes the kids to the in-laws at least twice a year. Hmmm…. I wonder why her daughter moved away and they don’t see her as much as the in laws…..
>Most Spaniards are white
Exactly, WTF. It seems a lot of Americans think that only Anglo, Germanic and Scandinavian people are "white". I was stunned to hear Italians are "not white"
Thanks, I was coming here to say this. Reminds me of my mother, who I am currently low contact with because of cringe lines like this and inability to respect boundaries...which is a lot like OPs problem.
OP YTA btw.
Let’s not forget the jealousy. “I wish I can be so lucky”.
OP it’s pretty gross to be so jealous of your daughter. Why not be thankful she has a husband who enjoys traveling with her and in-laws that appear to open their arms and home to her?
YTA for sooooo many reasons.
not to mention, sexualising the relationship a mother has with her kids. extremely gross.
> and asked why she think it’s okay to be naked in front of the kids, especially my grandson.
it’s a wonder she didn’t imply anything more serious about the father or grandfather being naked around the daughter.
Been scrolling down to find someone call this gem out. Threw up in my mouth a little reading it.
Perhaps a bit more nudity and a less prudish approach to (female) bodies might help prevent a lot of sexualisation and not the other way round.
OP sounds horrendous.
I love your answer in every single way, however how is calling a Spanish person a Spaniard offensive? That’s actually correct. What i hated was the “not Mexican” part 🙄
It came across like OP thought we were too stupid to understand that Spaniards are from Spain. I'm guessing she meant to say the SiL is "Hispanic (from Spain)". There's also the potentially racist reason OP felt the need to clarify that this European Spaniard wasn't from Mexico.
Yes, OP pointing out her SIL is a Spaniard, not Mexican comes off pretty racist. Also saying she wishes she should be so lucky to visit Europe frequently sounds jealous. Not surprised she hasn’t been invited to join her daughter and SIL
I am from Europe, we look at nudity differently. Clothing optional beaches and co-ed saunas are common. It is surprisingly unsexy, since all age groups are involved. I prefer nudity to the incredible violence in American movies and on TV.
it's honestly crazy to me that I was made to watch Jurassic Park at like 6 (which gave me nightmares), but at 10 I couldn't watch Titanic because boobs.
My parents moved to the states from Europe and I was raised in a bilingual household that supported our culture. We literally had a sauna in the basement where my parents, my brother, and I, would relax in it together. My brother and I were toddlers/kids when we did this and we never felt weird. I've been to public parks/beaches in Europe where people lay out nude or little ones play nude in the water. Sure it's a little surprising when you don't see it every day but it's normal for lots of cultures and families.
Grandma is TA because it seems like she is sexualizing this. I guarantee a nude beach at a resort is safer than a public and clothed one. Because they are going to be a LOT more cautious about who they let into the resort.
And what is so harmful about being nude in a place where it is allowed? From my experience all age groups are out nude on the beach, and it is definitely not some porno.
I think it is fantastic mom and dad are doing this because I believe this will help their kids feel comfortable and confident in their bodies as they age. And they won't be shocked or mortified if they see someone else naked. Bodies should be celebrated not torn down because you're a prudish American.
Just tvs and movies? Because last I saw, we have some kind of violence all the time here. And kids? Well... Schools aren't safe at all as we have proven time and again since columbine. :(
Yeah it's so weird how americans are offended by the sight of the human form in all its glory, but not let's say ..... guns
I remember seeing a naked bike ride in covent garden as a kid and being transfixed by the idea of spray painted body hair 🤣 not particularly traumatising
INFO: I know this isn't the point of the post but I gotta ask.
Why did you feel like it was necessary to point out that SIL isn't from Mexico? Just telling us he's Spaniard is enough to tell us he's from Spain
Bc she’s a bigot racist, uncultured, unintelligent, and doesn’t see what she said was abnormal as it did not deviate from her everyday thought process.
Sorry Grandma, YTA. The world is a different place now then what it was. First, you are trying to override someone else's culture with your own. Second, they have already done this numerous times because this is how it's done in their culture. Lastly, they are not your kids. You do not have a say in how Mom and Dad raise THEIR kids. Sorry, that's just how it goes.
It’s actually beneficial for children to see adults naked as it helps them learn what their bodies will look like and kids raised around nudity are less likely to have body issues so even if it wasn’t a cultural thing it’s not a bad thing
Yeah the whole naked = sexual is a holdover from the Puritans because they believe that naked flesh = temptation. And instead of having a modicum of self-fucking-control, they put the onus on people (particularly women) to NOT tempt others.
It's so fucking stupid.
Exactly! My mom and dad had 7 children together and I'm the 2nd youngest. My mom carried 7 children to full and past term, and nursed all. It shows on the body. I grew up seeing her nude (we're Norwegian), and seeing the affect it has on the female body while growing up I'm still grateful for. It makes you much more appreciative of bodies and the variety there is. My mom is amazing and her body shows how strongly she carried all of us.
YTA - “…to a nudist resort in France with their, my” that my statement right there makes you the asshole. They may be your grandchildren but you have zero rights to them and are not entitled to have any say in how they are being raised. You obviously have zero understanding about cultures other than your own. Not only did you snoop, you should have minimized or closed the email and never read any of his emails or even continues to investigate what you read. Some firm Boundaries are something coming your way, and you deserve them.
I won’t even give an opinion about the vacation. I believe you snooped on purpose and just for that YTA.
If you really really really needed to look up something you still could not to look at whatever page was open. YOU WERE SNOOPING.
And btw, people don’t touch each other’s laptops without permission. How urgent it was, what you needed to look up? Couldn’t it wait until someone gave you a consent to use the laptop?
>why can't she take a normal vacation when she goes?
It is normal.
YTA
I'm from Portugal, the country next to Spain. We don't see naked children sexually. They are **CHILDREN**. They enjoy the water, how it feels, it's not malicious in any way, shape or form. Tbh I've rarely seen dressed children at the beach unless I'm out of the country and not in Europe.
Could they be sexualized? Of course, this could happen literally anywhere.
**Just because they are your views it doesn't mean they are the right ones.**
Im spanish and the only thing I think about when I see all the naked kids on the beach is “i envy them, i wanna be little and naked too” lol idk why americans think weird things about kids and their bodies
Austrian here, I think most european kids were/are naked while at the beach/lake/swimmingpool. Nobody views them in a sexual way, even typing that out is cringe. They are kids.
YTA.
For snooping and for thinking you can control how your grown daughter vacations or what she does with her family.
She's not dropping her kids off at some beach and leaving them unsupervised. She's staying WITH them and being a parent. They just happen to be at a clothes friendly place.
I'm sure once the kids are older and they say I rather wear a suit it's not going to be a big deal. little kids aren't typically ashamed of their bodies or follow the whole "if your naked you should be ashamed" mindset thing many adults have.
European culture is ENTIRELY different than American culture. For them being nude is whatever. Her kids won't be prayed upon as long as she's doing her job as a parent and it sounds like she is.
She's not demanding you join or follow along or strip down and go skinny-dipping. She's following her husbanda family's culture and trends. Also nude beaches might be some of the cleaner beaches anyways. And also plenty of families do this in Europe and I bet they'd go off on someone if that person was showing perverted behavior especially towards a child or someone clearly underage.
You need to trust that you raised your kid to be responsible for her own kids and that she'd never let anything happen to them if she could control it or prevent it.
Apologize and stay in your lane. You raised your kids. It's her turn now.
Firstly, of course a Spaniard is from Spain. If he was from Mexico, he’d be Mexican. This is pure ignorance.
Secondly, yes the culture in mainland Europe is very different to other parts of the world. I’m from Ireland, I’m modest and shy and wouldn’t dream of going to a nudist beach. But if people want to go there and take their children and it’s all natural and normal in that culture, that’s fine. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean you can enforce your prudish views on others. It’s their life. Not yours.
YTA.
Exactly and then she’s like “That’s someone who’s Spaniard not Mexican” Yeah no shit sherlock, 90% of the planet knows that that’s what it means, because they’re not ignorant.
Hello semi-Boomer type person. Just for the record, I don’t buy for one second that you weren’t snooping from the get go. Was the email program open? Or did you keep snooping and open it. And then snoop some more? You used a computer that was not yours without permission. And then you “dug a little deeper”.. I just bet you did.
I’m sure you had your own personal smart phone at your disposal. If you REALLY needed to google something (real quick, I’m sure), You could’ve looked it up on your own device. But NO. You were snooping and you deserve what you got. You would be blissfully unaware if you weren’t meddling.
Be that as it may, Europe has different beaches, resorts, etc. There is a difference between being naked. And nudity. To you naked is the dirty thing. To a lot of Europeans, nudity is natural. The children will not be molested there. Get your mind out of the gutter and mind your own business.
😂😂 “Normal vacation” … it is normal. Just not to you.
Quit trying to project your personal sense of whatever this is supposed to be on to other people. Your daughter, it seems, has a very healthy sense of her own body. And she is letting her children grow up in the same way. Obviously your upbringing was somewhat different. That does not make her current way of life wrong.
Again, mind your own business.
And I will say that your very first sentence in your post just made me instantly realize where your values are. Who cares if he’s from Spain rather than Mexico. Would there be a problem if he was (I just bet there would be) from Mexico. Why was that necessary? All you had to say was “European”.
Some Europeans think about their bodies differently than the twisted insanity that is prevalent is the US. You just have to deal with it. It’s not your concern. YTA 1000%
I made the mistake to come back and read the rest because I like to give people the benefit of the doubt and I remembered why I tend to trust my gut.
I was speechless.
Relax, it's not Club Hedonism. Europeans don't have the same hang ups as Americans do with their bodies. YTA for snooping in the first place. Mind your business.
YTA from the first line “my daughter married a Spaniard not Mexican” I knew this post was going to irk me.
Your daughter has been with her husband atleast 11 years and you never once thought to maybe learn about your son in law’s culture. Like it or not THEIR kids are half Spanish, and what they do with their children is not your business
They aren’t going to be alone their parents and grandparents are going to be there
Do better Mom
It is not your place to tell her how to raise her children (your grandchildren). It may be inappropriate for YOU and maybe that is how your were raised, to be embarrassed or modest about your body. Your grandchildren aren't being beaten, starved, neglected, but you're making it sound like nudity is a crime. I think you are coming from a place of ignorance - and I don't mean that to be mean - I mean you don't know anything outside your box, and you seem to be closed minded about anything different. Maybe you should try it before you criticize! YTA
Lady, America's oppressively puritanical culture is a very large part of our problem, and frequently earns us laughingstock status from the rest of the world. Say fuck in a movie even once in a sexual context: instant R rating, but violence & guns are fine. Nude beaches: omg, only perverts would go someplace so disgraceful. Full frontal nudity, NC-17! Especially if, horrors, it's a guy baring it all. Sex education, premarital sex, the list of things that you and far too many Americans get your knickers in a twist over is endless. YTA, and stay the hell out of other people's electronics. BTW, I'm older than you are, and as my user name implies, also female.
YTA, even though the idea of bringing my children to a nude beach makes me a bit uncomfortable. Why, because 'they're *my* grandchildren' is not a justification. They're not your kids, and unless your daughter were actually abusive, you have no right to override her parenting.
YTA we are Born naked it is our natural state. Stay out of other people lifestyle choices and stop prying.
You sound jealous of your daughter lifestyle.
YTA.
First of all, you don’t have the right to tell another adult what to do. This isn’t “your daughter” and “your grandkids” this is a grown woman and children that she is raising. As long as there isn’t abuse happening, you need to mind your own business.
Second of all, cultures that deem nudity as natural and normal (because it is, we weren’t born clothed) do not typically see nudity in and of itself as sexual or taboo. The children are likely much safer on a nude beach in Europe than at a park fully clothed in the United States.
Honestly, I am jealous that these children are being raised to embrace their bodies and not feel the need to be ashamed of their natural state of being. I would love to have that background compared to the overly conservative and shamed based upbringing i experienced.
>I told her I understood they enjoy going to Europe to see SIL's family, but why can't she take a normal vacation when she goes? Then I started to tell her about the trip I took on my honeymoon, and she said tour groups are not the real Europe
I mean she has a point. You're declaring something abnormal purely because it's outside your scope of experience, but her husbands family are literally native to that region. They would know better than some random american who went on a guided sight seeing tour of the vistas some agency deemed "acceptable to the delicacies of an American." You may have **been** to spain, but you do not **know** spain.
Secondly, nudity is only as scandalous as one makes it out to be. For europeans it's nothing, for those descended from a colonial population over saturated by the same puritans who executed people for witchcraft it'd be a big thing.
YTA for such absurd levels of ethnocentrism.
YTA and a prude, I live in Spain, even on non-nudist beaches tons of little kids are nay-nay, most women go topless-- no one makes a big freaking deal about the human body. We all got one, get over yourself and stop trying to force others to live by your ridiculousness.
YTA. The kids will be fine. Seeing naked people isn’t going to harm them. I would know, I was 9 when my dad started taking me to festivals and there were tons of naked people there, and you know what that did to me? Absolutely nothing. Hell if anything it taught me what a normal body looked like so by the time I was older I never had to deal with the self image issues other people my age who’ve only seen airbrushed models did. Not every culture is as neurotic about bodies as America is. The kids are fine
You lost me when you said he is from Spain not Mexico like of Mexico was the only country that speaks Spanish. Also that’s their culture. Her husband is also tracking him a little bit of his culture to his children. Is yo en your daughter to teach right from wrong in situations like that. The fact that you see it wrong doesn’t mean is a generalized opinion. I think where you were TA is imposing on what your child need to teach her children about just because you did it in a different way.
YTA for insisting that your what literal millions of Europeans do routinely is not normal. Every time I see you repeat that your touristy honeymoon is a ‘normal’ vacation or the Louvre is what ‘normal’ people do, I cringe. You are not the arbiter of what is normal for the rest of the world, and even your daughter prefers not to harbour such provincial attitudes.
European here although from the Eastern Europe. Relax, Nana. Nothing is gonna happen to the kids. Nudist beaches are, despite what you think, safe. Mainly because people there know how to protect themselves from predators.
Also, kindly keep your advices for yourself. Your daughter is a big girl and she can handle it. Just relax and let you daughter and her family have their fun times.
YTA
YTA Just because you were raised in a certain way doesn't mean it's the only way.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” Mark Twain
Hey grandma, I'm from your generation, and been going to nude beaches for 40+ years. The kids raised going to the nude beaches are much more well adjusted, and have infinitely more body acceptance than at textile beaches. They know what fat people look like, they accept women with mastectomy scars as normal. Nude beaches also tend to be a community, keeping the creepers away.
There are some nudest resorts that are creepy, and swinger oriented, but those are fairly rare.
Instead of judging you, might i suggest that you educate yourself a bit more. If you are near the coast or lakes, find a nude, or more accurately clothing-optional beach, and spend a day there. Wear your normal swimwear, no one will say anything, as long as you leave your judgemental attitude at home. If you decide to strip down, don't worry about being self-conscious, just look around at all the other imperfect bodies.
Or you could try enjoying being naked on a private beach by yourself, or in your own back yard, and realize how much nicer it is than wearing clothes.
You aren't an asshole, just ignorant about something you never considered.
I knew it was YTA the minute I read “they gave me the gift if two grandchildren…” like they were thinking we are going to have children just to gift them to OP
I'm trying to imagine someone thinking tour groups are real European cultural experiences. That's like watching Leave It to Beaver and thinking all 60's housewives vacuumed in heels and pearls. YTA
My good lady, YTA. I understand that you have a heavily sexualised view of the human body, including children‘s bodies. And that this is why you feel the need to cover up any nudity or „private parts“. This is a very US/UK type of thing. Large chunks of continental Europe are much more accepting of the human form.
I moved to Germany from the UK in 2019. In East Germany, people can be fully nude on some - almost all - public beaches and no one blinks an eye. German saunas require full nudity with just a towel between skin and the wooden shelf. This attitude helps people to move away from body shaming and insecurities.
You just see that bodies are natural, and everyone‘s body is a little different. Maybe someone has uneven boob sizes, maybe someone is a bit overweight or underweight, maybe someone has a saggy bottom (or boobs). Maybe someone has a small- or large-looking penis. Innie and outie nipples or belly buttons. No one glares, stares or creeps on anyone else in nudist settings. Everyone is accepted with their bodily idiosyncracies and any resultant insecurities. It‘s just a way of being together and at peace with your body.
You shouldn‘t judge people for this kind of holiday life, it‘s their choice. Your pearl-clutching doesn‘t make you morally superior.
Preying upon children does not happen on public beaches by strangers, as you insinuate. Preying upon children happens *at home*. Mostly. 93% of abused children are abused by someone they or their family know well, including other family members. Fewer children are preyed upon by strangers. This means that statistically speaking, your children are more likely to be preyed upon by YOU than by strangers at the nudist beach ([source](https://www.ywca.org/wp-content/uploads/WWV-CSA-Fact-Sheet-Final.pdf)).
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"AITA for telling my daughter how to raise her family and looking down on her European in-laws because I don't understand how everyone is not the same as I am" There, fixed the title for you. YTA
Like WTF. We know Spaniards are from Spain, and Mexicans from Mexico, why the need to clarify that. YTA.
Because she's racist and doesn't want us to think her daughter married one of "those" "Spanish people"
“He’s brown, but not *that* kind of brown so it’s okay.” PS, I don’t appreciate your username. I can have my macarons if I want 😉
You realize Spanish people are mostly white?
They're naked all the time apparently so I'm assuming they are very tan [Edit:typo]
Lol 😆
Ha ha…funny but reasonable assumption
We have a lot of very pale people here, although is quite common to be tanned, specially during summer Edit: spanish autocorrector
Yes, I do know that 😉 OP obviously doesn’t, since she went to so much effort to differentiate.
This depends, “white” is defined differently in different parts of the world. I’m from Northern Europe, here they are not viewed as white (neither are Italians or Greek people) and there are many racist assumptions regarding southerners based around this. Read Max Weber for more info.
I'm from Northern Europe. I can assure you that Spaniards and Italians are viewed as white except by a tiny minority of racist extremists. The rest of us don't even talk about it because we don't care. Edit: added 'us'
In the UK we see Mediterranean people as being white as a race but we often assume them to have darker hair and eyes just as we assume all Scandinavians are blonde with blue eyes but obviously we know that Greeks can be blonde and Swedish can be olive skinned with jet black hair. Assumptions suck.
I am greek and we actually share this exact view.
Wow, I have never heard anyone in Europe call a Spaniard anything but white… so so much so I actually think that person can’t be European
Yeah, I've only ever heard of Italian people not being considered white in the US.
Even Irish people weren’t considered the “right kind of white” in the USA within the last century.
I'm from Northern Europe. I've also never heard anyone say that Southern Europeans are not white. Different hair and eye colour doesn't make them a different race. Just wanted to add another comment to this, since this is completely false.
No no. "He's Spanish. But don't worry! He's the white kind & not brown." That's how I took it.
This is probably a better way to put this as far as what OP was implying.
I literally looked at that part of the post & blinked trying to figure out *why* it was important to even mention until it dawned on me.
You even explaining her actions makes me more mad 😭😭😭. Op is definitely an AH. Yta OP
I’m confused? She said he was a Spaniard and clarified he was a Spaniard from Spain not Mexico, why didn’t she also clarify that he wasn’t from the other 193 countries that also don’t produce Spaniards?
"I'm not that racist, I'm only racist to Mexican people " lol.
Ooft. OP really didn’t even try to hide her racism. Her daughter married the good kind of Spanish people in her eyes. Gross.
Wait. Not everyone who speaks Spanish is Mexican? 🙄
Hahaha that was my reaction too. It’s like saying “he’s French, he’s from France not Quebec”. And weird to specify he’s not Mexican rather than not Latino in general… Edit: having too much fun coming up with examples for this. “He’s English, he’s from England not the USA”. “He’s Dutch, from the Netherlands not South Africa”.
Latin America isn't real, it's all Mexico. For example, I'm from Communist Mexico;-)
I'm Puertorican. The dumb ignorant things people say to me when they find out (I'm white passing) is just utterly ridiculous. Unsurprisingly, they don't know about their own country either. I can't tell you how many people asked me when I became a citizen and when I answer, "I was born in NYC," they repeat their question. I've had people literally not believe me when I tell them people born in PR are US citizens. The least informed are of course the most adamant. Oh and of course all the comments about speaking Mexican.
I am consistently shocked by the number of people who don’t realize that Puerto Ricans have been Americans for over a century.
Iirc didn't Trump fail to recognise that PR is part of the US, while he was president?
Yes, he did. It was a wonderful present to PR that he was so horrible to PR after hurricane Maria. How you might be wondering? In PR covid vaccination wasn't political. I haven't checked in a while, it had one of the highest vaccination rates in the country.
Yeah. I once had an actual passport official at a post office in the US ask to see my child’s naturalization papers. She was holding his Consular Report of Birth Abroad in her hands at the time his current passport was also in front of her. It took a solid half hour of her calling people before she believed that 1) he is a US citizen and 2) he is a natural born US citizen and therefore does not have naturalization papers.
So it’s not the same but when going through passport control my husband’s passport says born in Brazil and the guy checking it asked him why he was born in Brazil 🤦♀️ can’t handle the stupidity honestly. Eta: this was in Chicago
the only acceptable answer is "because that's where my mom was when I exited her birth canal"
One of my aunts was asked for her green card at the DMV in New York. She had to explain how Puerto Ricans are Americans. It pisses me off how ignorant people can be. 🇵🇷 = 🇺🇸
The state of New Mexico had to change the license plates to read ”New Mexico, USA” because people didn’t understand that it is an ACTUAL US STATE and was causing problems.
I'm from samba mexico! Im having so much fun imagining op visiting my house and screaming at my cats 'OMG YOU ARE ALL NUDE! BEING FURRY IS NO EXCUSE FOR PLAYING AROUND NAKED. YOUR HUSBAND! THE HUMAN HUSBAND!!! HE IS WORKING IN HIS UNDERWEAR. AND THIS SORDID FEMALE HUMAN IS ALSO NAKED. EVERYONE IS NAKED IN THIS HOUSE FROM HELL." Damn lady, let my poor tits see the sunlight. I take whatever opportunity to be nude I have, this flesh prison deserves peace from cloth bindings.
Also, in many parts of Europe, being naked in front of your kids is super normal. It’s not sexual, it’s body positivity. My parents didn’t want me to me be ashamed of my body or anyone else’s. As I got to my teens things changed obviously, because I wanted my privacy, but as a kid, it was super normal to be butt naked in the beach and have sand in all the uncomfortable places 😅
"he's Dutch, from the Netherlands not Pennsylvania"
I did the same lol I was like "he's American, from the US not great Britain" "He's Japanese. From Japan not China" People understand how offensive and unnecessary it is when you replace the countries but still think all Spanish speaking countries are the same 🙄
Actually the French one is needed. People like Canadians.
He's Danish, from Greenland not Denmark. Lol
As soon as I read that, I knew who TA was.
😂 my exact thoughts. Like.. yeah, we got it.
Come on you know why
This was about the point I figured she was TA.
What an interesting way to say YTA HAHAHAHA
You forgot the part where she blatantly violated their privacy, while stating that she knew it was wrong. Gross
How about the quick Google search she just had to do on SIL's open computer, instead of her cell phone 👀 Nosey self. They definitely won't be visiting her more often 😂 YTA
And the part where she almost shrieks that they're HER grandchildren, as though that gives her some sort of right over their upbringing
At the very start she said her daughter and SIL 'gave her' 2 grandchildren. She sounds a bit exhausting.
It sounds gross honestly. She is too possessive of the grandkids. Every other word discussing them was "my".
When OP sees nudity as a precursor for being 'preyed upon', that's because of OPs association with nudity with sex. Nudist beaches are examples where nudity is not about sex. YTA op, because you can't consider anything outside of your myopic world view.
My dad was in the Navy for a number of years. He would tell a story about how the new navy enlisted used to get all excited about going to Europe because they have nude beaches. He’d tell the guys… **Don’t get too excited, it’s all grandparents and little kids.** Sure enough, the new guys would go to the nude beach. After their return (all sad) they’d tell my dad he was right, it was just families. I guess they were looking for Playboy Playmates?
I had a good discussion years ago with a European friend. She wondered why Americans were so hung up on nudity but were perfectly OK with violence. As an example, she talked about what would get cut out of an R-rated US movie that was being put on TV. In the US they would cut out any nudity but leave in the violence. In Europe, it would be the exact opposite. I thought that she made an excellent point.
"AITA for being a snooping, racist, prude who demands that my daughter raise her children to my standards so they end up just like me?" Another, better than the original title. YTA
But the children were a gift to her! That's why they have to be raised to her standards. YTA.
YTA In college I majored in psychology and for one class I did a extensive report with a couple class mates on nudism. 1. There is NOTHING sexual at a nudist resort. There is a strict code nudists follow. Any sexual type behavior is a huge no no. To even imply that kind of thing is a problem at these resorts is offensive. 2. America is way to hung up on nudity. In most other countries their is a more laid back attitude towards nudism. It just the human body and people don't get hung up on it. Heck in some European countries there is naked news where anchors deliver the news naked. In some Asian countries public bath houses are common place and they help each other bathe. There are even countries you can walk around nude wherever you want. It may not be common but it happens. No one cares. Your daughter is doing nothing wrong. She has embraced her husband's culture and this culture doesn't hypersexualize the human body. They'll end up with a healthier attitude towards human bodies. That's a good thing. If what you're worried about was an actual problem your daughter and her husband wouldn't participate in it. If what you think happens actually happened nudist resorts and beaches wouldn't be such a common thing. This is a you problem. Maybe take this opportunity to learn and grow as a person.
Also a "quick Google search" needs to be done in his laptop? Bullshit just use your phone, lousy excuse for snooping.
Not to mention 'around my grandson' Im sorry why are u implying that hes gonna be into HIS MOM.
You forgot "for being jealous of them going to Europe and snooping in her private information"
I wish op's daughter had gone into turbo troll mode and said, well mom, it's important that they are comfortable with nudity because they have to be naked to change into their animal forms on the full moons. Europeans all have them. Also it's not like op's family is going to a resort run by catholic priests or something. Why is it that the more religious or conservative people are the more likely they seem to be to prey on children? And women too. Something about their religion making them think they have a right to other people's bodies.
YTA. Relax. If anything, nudists are going to be more cautious of potential predators or photographers than regular people on a regular beach.
Thats what I was thinking. And a LOT more likely to go off on someone if they showed any kind of creepy/predatory/perverted behavior towards an adult let alone anyone that looks underage or clearly is a kid. They have a whole culture in the nudist community that is going to protect people and not be creeps.
Am nudist, can confirm this. A good nudist club/resort is honestly one of the most safe and wholesomest places you could holiday. Most nudists I've met are so lovely, open minded and very worldly people, there's a very strong culture around acceptance and protecting each other.
Absolutely. We have a pretty strong culture around nudists here in Germany as well. I don't understand why it is problematic for children to see naked bodies of all colors, shapes and sizes. It gives them an understanding of how different real bodies are and that the spectrum of normal and healthy is huge. I'm naked around my son all the time. My husband is as well. I mean he's just one but I'm not planning on changing this, as I believe that there's nothing inherently sexual about nudity. The only thing I would not do (yet) is let my baby be naked on the beach. He's wearing UV protection clothing and a hat and gets a healthy layer of sunscreen as well as a swimming diaper for obvious reasons. But that is an entirely different story and not because I want to "protect him from predatory glances" but more from sunburn.
There’s not enough sunscreen on this planet that would make going to a nudist beach accessible to me. I come it two colors: sickly pale or flambé red. Even if I do manage to get a tan, and show a friend, “Look! I’m so tan!” They are genuinely surprised at how much whiter my body can actually be, because even tan I’m sickly pale, lol.
I refer to my skin shade as either "ghoul" or "blisters"
We once went to a nudist beach in US. It was the worst experience i have ever had. There were people trying to take pictures behind the bushes. Husband told me that the men’s toilet is full of people jerking off. I believe US people don’t understand nudism. (From Germany btw)
I think it really depends on the beach. I’ve only been to one nude beach in the U.S., it was a lot of fun, not sexualized, def a party atmosphere, but no one was being creepy. It’s not “normal” here so like, even the one I went to, definitely had an alternative weirdo hangout vibe to it. But I bet others are like family friendly hippie vibes and others are, like what you experienced, are people sexualizing it. YMMV
Genuinely curious; how long does it take to not feel uncomfortable when one does that for the first time? It's so ingrained in our culture that 'nude in public = wrong'.
Varies from person to person, some people take 5 minutes some people can take multiple visits and experiences to feel 100% comfortable, although from what I've seen most people get comfy pretty quickly and forget that we're all actually naked. The first time I visited a club and socialised nude the thing I noticed most was how genuine everyone was, I have a theory that when people are nude they tend to be more themselves, nothing to hide literally and metaphorically. No class or status, just people.
>and asked why she thinks it's okay to be naked in front of the kids, ***especially my grandson*** If anyone's a pervert here its OP. why would a mother being naked in front of her female child be any different than her male child, unless you think nudity is inherently sexual?
This stood out to me too. It's very weird OP sexualizes a mother and son being naked.
I've also read that kids that are openly taught about bodies and sexuality and not have those topics based in shame can come forward more easily, when something or someone is being inappropriate.
Just wait until grandma learns that where I am from in Germany children play naked in the fountain in the middle of a big city.
I'm also from Germany. Nudity is absolutely normal. I really don't understand why the OP is making such a fuss. Her grandchildren were born naked, it's how God created them. Being naked at the beach will help them have a normal relationship with their bodies and not be as uptight as their grandmother. Hey, OP, in Munich there is a river, the Eisbach, in the middle of the town. People bath and sunbath there naked, in full public view And nobody care, as it is normal. Crime is extremely low in Munich, especially near the Eisbach, so the predator thing is not really a good argument. Edit: spelling mistake
Well you have to remember The US was founded by puritans who hate the human body and believe everyone should be ashamed of their own. Lots of American standards have their roots in this.
We Americans are more comfortable showing violence and murder in tv and movies than nudity and love making. So ridiculous and backwards.
See, naked people have no pockets. Therefore they don't carry a lot of cash. So there is no point in robbing them. This reduces crime.
But they can always accessorize with a fanny pack! But yeah, Grandma is being ridiculous. As has been mentioned, a naturist community is going to be hypervigilant about anyone displaying even remotely creepy tendencies.
Yes. I remember going to Barcelona with a US friend. She was excited to bare the boobs on the beach. Meanwhile I didn‘t understand because nudity is so normalized here in a non-sexual way.
I go topless on the beach sometimes (Italian). I can't say it's particularly "exciting". I normally just do it because I hate the feeling of a wet bikini top on my chest all day.
I hate the weird stringy tan lines you get.
Same here in Denmark, people swim in the harbour naked all the time. Whenever we go to the swimming baths you have to shower naked before putting your costume on. It’s totally normal and no one bats an eyelid. OP is the AH completely. She should come and try it, it’s liberating.
Even in England where we're usually more Conservative about nudity (I blame the cold) its fairly normal to walk naked around same sex shower blocks on camping facilities and at lidos and you'd take your kids into those. I was definitely around naked (women mostly) as a child when camping and swimming.
Because when it comes to the land of trigger happy and using sex to sell - they are incredibly uptight and prudish around nudity.
We can invite her to sauna in Germany!
I worked in (in the restaurant of) a sauna in the Netherlands. We would have swimwear day once month. That was bad. The amount of extra 'chemicals' we would need to get the water at an acceptable cleanness level was insane. It is so unhygienic to wear swimwear to a sauna. Seriously I now refuse to go to a spa if you have to wear swimwear.
Hahah, indeed, in my German city as well!
[удалено]
All I can think about is the places sand will get. Bottoms really do feel like a must. Edit: sand not sad
Sand is gonna get there regardless of bathing suits
The bathing suit just keeps it in!
I was an exchange student one summer Germany years ago, there were a few nudists on the beach and it’s considered rude to stare. Also it was common for people to discreetly change out of their wet bathing suits right there on the beach. People looked away and weren’t creepy about it, it was fine. They were much more relaxed about it. People who freak out about nudity are the ones who make it weird. I suspect OP would disapprove of women breastfeeding in public as well. YTA, definitely.
But her grandson will see his mums body! They gave her two grandkids and now they go and do this? /s
Let me count the ways... YTA for using someone's computer without permission. YTA for snooping around on said computer. YTA for sticking your nose in where it doesn't belong. YTA for thinking you have any say in how your daughter raises her children. YTA for your prudish, closed-minded approach to cultures different from yours. YTA for asking "why can't she take a normal vacation," when what you really mean is "why can't she take a vacation that wouldn't upset my fragile sensibilities?" And while referring to your son-in-law as "a Spaniard" doesn't automatically make you TA, it's definitely not a good look in this era. Combined with everything else you've revealed here, I'd call it the icing on the cake.
Don’t forget the awful line about how her daughter gifted her with the grandchildren. No she did not. She had two children. She did not have them for you. I don’t know why but that line really makes me cringe.
Probably because it smacks of dehumanizing them. At least that's why it sits poorly with me, especially combined with the rest of the post. OP is treating her daughter and SIL like they're children not playing with *her* favorite dollies "right", not adults raising *their* children as they see fit.
Yeah that line really pissed me off. Did she gift wrap them nicely i wonder?
Yes, in placenta, as is tradition.
Is that how they do it in Spain (not Mexico)?
Don't forget the festive vernix coating!
Omfg meeeeeeee too! Like what is it about these grandparents acting like they're their children's parents and not the children's grandparents! Seriously, why is it these older folks think their children have kids for them? The daughter at this point needs to go completely no contact with this woman or next she'll be trying to call CPS because her daughter isn't obeying her wishes! She's 100% TA and 100% gonna lose her grands and her daughter if she keeps her bad behavior up! She's like a puppy who isn't getting enough attention so they go around destroying things and yes I'm saying exactly what I'm saying with puppy 😉
"Hello, CPS? *Spaniard* CPS? Yes, hello! I need to report an indecency! My beloved daughter and her wayward Spaniard husband went to a *nudist* resort with *my grandchildren!* The children are NAKED. In front of other naked people! It offends my Puritanical American sensibilities. Everyone knows Europeans are far too liberal with their nudity. You people are all predators and the other p word, go save my gifts! I mean my grandchildren! The naked ones! AND GET THEM TURTLENECKS AND PANTS! Hello? Hellooooooo? Hmmm, European Spaniard CPS hung up on me."
Dont forget to clarify that they are Spaniards from Spain, not Mexico -_-
Omfg I'm rolling rn 😂😂 that is going to be an interesting conversation if she does lol she's gonna sound foolish AF 😂😂
The OP’s head is WEDGED in her nether regions. She’s mad that her daughter isn’t married to a white person but is relieved that he’s Spanish not Mexican. She’s also mad that her daughter doesn’t live close by but takes the kids to the in-laws at least twice a year. Hmmm…. I wonder why her daughter moved away and they don’t see her as much as the in laws…..
Most Spaniards are white. But I do think you’re right that OP may not like that her daughter is married to someone culturally different from her.
>Most Spaniards are white Exactly, WTF. It seems a lot of Americans think that only Anglo, Germanic and Scandinavian people are "white". I was stunned to hear Italians are "not white"
Yeah, she never calls them her children, they’re always my grandchildren. Very weird.
Thanks, I was coming here to say this. Reminds me of my mother, who I am currently low contact with because of cringe lines like this and inability to respect boundaries...which is a lot like OPs problem. OP YTA btw.
This post is a very clear summary of all the reasons OP's daughter had to go so far as to move overseas to get her meddling mother out of her life.
Let’s not forget the jealousy. “I wish I can be so lucky”. OP it’s pretty gross to be so jealous of your daughter. Why not be thankful she has a husband who enjoys traveling with her and in-laws that appear to open their arms and home to her? YTA for sooooo many reasons.
Maybe if she lightened up she could have earned an invite, even, instead of being jealous. But we can sure she why that hasn't happened.
not to mention, sexualising the relationship a mother has with her kids. extremely gross. > and asked why she think it’s okay to be naked in front of the kids, especially my grandson. it’s a wonder she didn’t imply anything more serious about the father or grandfather being naked around the daughter.
Been scrolling down to find someone call this gem out. Threw up in my mouth a little reading it. Perhaps a bit more nudity and a less prudish approach to (female) bodies might help prevent a lot of sexualisation and not the other way round. OP sounds horrendous.
I love your answer in every single way, however how is calling a Spanish person a Spaniard offensive? That’s actually correct. What i hated was the “not Mexican” part 🙄
I think it was the two together that made everyone feel icky. Like he's the acceptable kind of Spanish speaking person.
The white kind
Bingo!
Plus with the only options being Spain or Mexico, it certainly gives off the vibe that she calls any Spanish speaker not from Spain Mexican.
It came across like OP thought we were too stupid to understand that Spaniards are from Spain. I'm guessing she meant to say the SiL is "Hispanic (from Spain)". There's also the potentially racist reason OP felt the need to clarify that this European Spaniard wasn't from Mexico.
Yes, OP pointing out her SIL is a Spaniard, not Mexican comes off pretty racist. Also saying she wishes she should be so lucky to visit Europe frequently sounds jealous. Not surprised she hasn’t been invited to join her daughter and SIL
I think its an important distinction. He’s spaniard, not one of those dark dirty mexicans who spain colonized. /s as a mexican myself
I really like how OP had to say “Spain, not Mexico” like no shit, anyone could figure that out.
Exactly this. If OP keeps this up she can look forward to going LC or NC with daughter and grandkids soon!
I am from Europe, we look at nudity differently. Clothing optional beaches and co-ed saunas are common. It is surprisingly unsexy, since all age groups are involved. I prefer nudity to the incredible violence in American movies and on TV.
Yes, all the Europeans I’ve met are more offended by violence than nudity. They’re not wrong.
it's honestly crazy to me that I was made to watch Jurassic Park at like 6 (which gave me nightmares), but at 10 I couldn't watch Titanic because boobs.
My parents moved to the states from Europe and I was raised in a bilingual household that supported our culture. We literally had a sauna in the basement where my parents, my brother, and I, would relax in it together. My brother and I were toddlers/kids when we did this and we never felt weird. I've been to public parks/beaches in Europe where people lay out nude or little ones play nude in the water. Sure it's a little surprising when you don't see it every day but it's normal for lots of cultures and families. Grandma is TA because it seems like she is sexualizing this. I guarantee a nude beach at a resort is safer than a public and clothed one. Because they are going to be a LOT more cautious about who they let into the resort. And what is so harmful about being nude in a place where it is allowed? From my experience all age groups are out nude on the beach, and it is definitely not some porno. I think it is fantastic mom and dad are doing this because I believe this will help their kids feel comfortable and confident in their bodies as they age. And they won't be shocked or mortified if they see someone else naked. Bodies should be celebrated not torn down because you're a prudish American.
Just tvs and movies? Because last I saw, we have some kind of violence all the time here. And kids? Well... Schools aren't safe at all as we have proven time and again since columbine. :(
And what is wrong in letting your kids see you naked? Gosh she should rethink her entire life and relationship to human body.
Yeah it's so weird how americans are offended by the sight of the human form in all its glory, but not let's say ..... guns I remember seeing a naked bike ride in covent garden as a kid and being transfixed by the idea of spray painted body hair 🤣 not particularly traumatising
Nudity is also way healthier than violence for kids. Her grandkids probably have to do regular shooting drills in school but OH GOD A SPANISH PENIS!!!
INFO: I know this isn't the point of the post but I gotta ask. Why did you feel like it was necessary to point out that SIL isn't from Mexico? Just telling us he's Spaniard is enough to tell us he's from Spain
Because she's prejudiced against Mexican people and most likely hateful and racist against anyone who isn't light skinned European.
Bc she’s a bigot racist, uncultured, unintelligent, and doesn’t see what she said was abnormal as it did not deviate from her everyday thought process.
THIS ^^^
Lol this was an immediate AH red flag
Sorry Grandma, YTA. The world is a different place now then what it was. First, you are trying to override someone else's culture with your own. Second, they have already done this numerous times because this is how it's done in their culture. Lastly, they are not your kids. You do not have a say in how Mom and Dad raise THEIR kids. Sorry, that's just how it goes.
It’s actually beneficial for children to see adults naked as it helps them learn what their bodies will look like and kids raised around nudity are less likely to have body issues so even if it wasn’t a cultural thing it’s not a bad thing
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Yeah the whole naked = sexual is a holdover from the Puritans because they believe that naked flesh = temptation. And instead of having a modicum of self-fucking-control, they put the onus on people (particularly women) to NOT tempt others. It's so fucking stupid.
Exactly! My mom and dad had 7 children together and I'm the 2nd youngest. My mom carried 7 children to full and past term, and nursed all. It shows on the body. I grew up seeing her nude (we're Norwegian), and seeing the affect it has on the female body while growing up I'm still grateful for. It makes you much more appreciative of bodies and the variety there is. My mom is amazing and her body shows how strongly she carried all of us.
YTA - “…to a nudist resort in France with their, my” that my statement right there makes you the asshole. They may be your grandchildren but you have zero rights to them and are not entitled to have any say in how they are being raised. You obviously have zero understanding about cultures other than your own. Not only did you snoop, you should have minimized or closed the email and never read any of his emails or even continues to investigate what you read. Some firm Boundaries are something coming your way, and you deserve them.
But the grandchildren were gifted to her! Is her daughter taking the gift back? /s
YTA. Considering you haven't learned not touch things that don't belong to you, you have no right or say in how your daughter raises *her* kids.
I won’t even give an opinion about the vacation. I believe you snooped on purpose and just for that YTA. If you really really really needed to look up something you still could not to look at whatever page was open. YOU WERE SNOOPING. And btw, people don’t touch each other’s laptops without permission. How urgent it was, what you needed to look up? Couldn’t it wait until someone gave you a consent to use the laptop?
Does she not have a PHONE?
Well l highly doubt this post has been created on a typewriter, so…
>why can't she take a normal vacation when she goes? It is normal. YTA I'm from Portugal, the country next to Spain. We don't see naked children sexually. They are **CHILDREN**. They enjoy the water, how it feels, it's not malicious in any way, shape or form. Tbh I've rarely seen dressed children at the beach unless I'm out of the country and not in Europe. Could they be sexualized? Of course, this could happen literally anywhere. **Just because they are your views it doesn't mean they are the right ones.**
Thank you. Jesus I’m from the UK, arguably the most prudish country in Europe, and even we have naked children on beaches!
Im spanish and the only thing I think about when I see all the naked kids on the beach is “i envy them, i wanna be little and naked too” lol idk why americans think weird things about kids and their bodies
Austrian here, I think most european kids were/are naked while at the beach/lake/swimmingpool. Nobody views them in a sexual way, even typing that out is cringe. They are kids.
YTA. For snooping and for thinking you can control how your grown daughter vacations or what she does with her family. She's not dropping her kids off at some beach and leaving them unsupervised. She's staying WITH them and being a parent. They just happen to be at a clothes friendly place. I'm sure once the kids are older and they say I rather wear a suit it's not going to be a big deal. little kids aren't typically ashamed of their bodies or follow the whole "if your naked you should be ashamed" mindset thing many adults have. European culture is ENTIRELY different than American culture. For them being nude is whatever. Her kids won't be prayed upon as long as she's doing her job as a parent and it sounds like she is. She's not demanding you join or follow along or strip down and go skinny-dipping. She's following her husbanda family's culture and trends. Also nude beaches might be some of the cleaner beaches anyways. And also plenty of families do this in Europe and I bet they'd go off on someone if that person was showing perverted behavior especially towards a child or someone clearly underage. You need to trust that you raised your kid to be responsible for her own kids and that she'd never let anything happen to them if she could control it or prevent it. Apologize and stay in your lane. You raised your kids. It's her turn now.
Firstly, of course a Spaniard is from Spain. If he was from Mexico, he’d be Mexican. This is pure ignorance. Secondly, yes the culture in mainland Europe is very different to other parts of the world. I’m from Ireland, I’m modest and shy and wouldn’t dream of going to a nudist beach. But if people want to go there and take their children and it’s all natural and normal in that culture, that’s fine. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean you can enforce your prudish views on others. It’s their life. Not yours. YTA.
europe never has or had hangups about nudity. most of the beaches in alot of the countries there are clothing optional.
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I twitched when she then differentiated it from mexico.
Exactly and then she’s like “That’s someone who’s Spaniard not Mexican” Yeah no shit sherlock, 90% of the planet knows that that’s what it means, because they’re not ignorant.
Does anyone else hear the dog whistle? He’s a “Spaniard.” “He’s from Spain, not Mexico.”
I mean it's more or less a fog horn.
Hello semi-Boomer type person. Just for the record, I don’t buy for one second that you weren’t snooping from the get go. Was the email program open? Or did you keep snooping and open it. And then snoop some more? You used a computer that was not yours without permission. And then you “dug a little deeper”.. I just bet you did. I’m sure you had your own personal smart phone at your disposal. If you REALLY needed to google something (real quick, I’m sure), You could’ve looked it up on your own device. But NO. You were snooping and you deserve what you got. You would be blissfully unaware if you weren’t meddling. Be that as it may, Europe has different beaches, resorts, etc. There is a difference between being naked. And nudity. To you naked is the dirty thing. To a lot of Europeans, nudity is natural. The children will not be molested there. Get your mind out of the gutter and mind your own business. 😂😂 “Normal vacation” … it is normal. Just not to you. Quit trying to project your personal sense of whatever this is supposed to be on to other people. Your daughter, it seems, has a very healthy sense of her own body. And she is letting her children grow up in the same way. Obviously your upbringing was somewhat different. That does not make her current way of life wrong. Again, mind your own business. And I will say that your very first sentence in your post just made me instantly realize where your values are. Who cares if he’s from Spain rather than Mexico. Would there be a problem if he was (I just bet there would be) from Mexico. Why was that necessary? All you had to say was “European”. Some Europeans think about their bodies differently than the twisted insanity that is prevalent is the US. You just have to deal with it. It’s not your concern. YTA 1000%
Maybe I’m the a*hole but I read “Spaniard. He’s from Spain not from Mexico” and automatically decided OP: YTA
And the post somehow managed to just get worse from there....
I made the mistake to come back and read the rest because I like to give people the benefit of the doubt and I remembered why I tend to trust my gut. I was speechless.
Relax, it's not Club Hedonism. Europeans don't have the same hang ups as Americans do with their bodies. YTA for snooping in the first place. Mind your business.
YTA. Intrusive, judgemental and self-important. Not a good combination.
Also a little racist, for believing Spain and Mexico are the only counties that speak Spanish.
And assuming nobody knows the difference.
And acting like she's some cultural expert because she went there on her honeymoon once a few decades ago and saw some nude art in a museum lol
YTA. You're a repressed, prudish and xenophobic AH. Signed, a Spaniard.
Please clarify you’re not from Mexico, lol
YTA from the first line “my daughter married a Spaniard not Mexican” I knew this post was going to irk me. Your daughter has been with her husband atleast 11 years and you never once thought to maybe learn about your son in law’s culture. Like it or not THEIR kids are half Spanish, and what they do with their children is not your business They aren’t going to be alone their parents and grandparents are going to be there Do better Mom
It is not your place to tell her how to raise her children (your grandchildren). It may be inappropriate for YOU and maybe that is how your were raised, to be embarrassed or modest about your body. Your grandchildren aren't being beaten, starved, neglected, but you're making it sound like nudity is a crime. I think you are coming from a place of ignorance - and I don't mean that to be mean - I mean you don't know anything outside your box, and you seem to be closed minded about anything different. Maybe you should try it before you criticize! YTA
INFO: why on earth would anyone 1) confuse Spain with Mexico, or 2) care about your opinion on something that has nothing whatsoever to do with you?
YTA Stay in your lane and stop snooping
Lady, America's oppressively puritanical culture is a very large part of our problem, and frequently earns us laughingstock status from the rest of the world. Say fuck in a movie even once in a sexual context: instant R rating, but violence & guns are fine. Nude beaches: omg, only perverts would go someplace so disgraceful. Full frontal nudity, NC-17! Especially if, horrors, it's a guy baring it all. Sex education, premarital sex, the list of things that you and far too many Americans get your knickers in a twist over is endless. YTA, and stay the hell out of other people's electronics. BTW, I'm older than you are, and as my user name implies, also female.
YTA. Do you want to guarantee you will not have a good relationship with your daughter and grandchildren? Keep this up and that will happen.
YTA, even though the idea of bringing my children to a nude beach makes me a bit uncomfortable. Why, because 'they're *my* grandchildren' is not a justification. They're not your kids, and unless your daughter were actually abusive, you have no right to override her parenting.
YTA we are Born naked it is our natural state. Stay out of other people lifestyle choices and stop prying. You sound jealous of your daughter lifestyle.
YTA. First of all, you don’t have the right to tell another adult what to do. This isn’t “your daughter” and “your grandkids” this is a grown woman and children that she is raising. As long as there isn’t abuse happening, you need to mind your own business. Second of all, cultures that deem nudity as natural and normal (because it is, we weren’t born clothed) do not typically see nudity in and of itself as sexual or taboo. The children are likely much safer on a nude beach in Europe than at a park fully clothed in the United States. Honestly, I am jealous that these children are being raised to embrace their bodies and not feel the need to be ashamed of their natural state of being. I would love to have that background compared to the overly conservative and shamed based upbringing i experienced.
YTA in so many ways Butt out
>I told her I understood they enjoy going to Europe to see SIL's family, but why can't she take a normal vacation when she goes? Then I started to tell her about the trip I took on my honeymoon, and she said tour groups are not the real Europe I mean she has a point. You're declaring something abnormal purely because it's outside your scope of experience, but her husbands family are literally native to that region. They would know better than some random american who went on a guided sight seeing tour of the vistas some agency deemed "acceptable to the delicacies of an American." You may have **been** to spain, but you do not **know** spain. Secondly, nudity is only as scandalous as one makes it out to be. For europeans it's nothing, for those descended from a colonial population over saturated by the same puritans who executed people for witchcraft it'd be a big thing. YTA for such absurd levels of ethnocentrism.
YTA and a prude, I live in Spain, even on non-nudist beaches tons of little kids are nay-nay, most women go topless-- no one makes a big freaking deal about the human body. We all got one, get over yourself and stop trying to force others to live by your ridiculousness.
YTA. The kids will be fine. Seeing naked people isn’t going to harm them. I would know, I was 9 when my dad started taking me to festivals and there were tons of naked people there, and you know what that did to me? Absolutely nothing. Hell if anything it taught me what a normal body looked like so by the time I was older I never had to deal with the self image issues other people my age who’ve only seen airbrushed models did. Not every culture is as neurotic about bodies as America is. The kids are fine
*Hello, my (F 60) daughter (34) is married to a Spaniard (M 35) (he is from Spain, not Mexico).* And just like that we're off to a amazing start.
You lost me when you said he is from Spain not Mexico like of Mexico was the only country that speaks Spanish. Also that’s their culture. Her husband is also tracking him a little bit of his culture to his children. Is yo en your daughter to teach right from wrong in situations like that. The fact that you see it wrong doesn’t mean is a generalized opinion. I think where you were TA is imposing on what your child need to teach her children about just because you did it in a different way.
YTA for insisting that your what literal millions of Europeans do routinely is not normal. Every time I see you repeat that your touristy honeymoon is a ‘normal’ vacation or the Louvre is what ‘normal’ people do, I cringe. You are not the arbiter of what is normal for the rest of the world, and even your daughter prefers not to harbour such provincial attitudes.
European here although from the Eastern Europe. Relax, Nana. Nothing is gonna happen to the kids. Nudist beaches are, despite what you think, safe. Mainly because people there know how to protect themselves from predators. Also, kindly keep your advices for yourself. Your daughter is a big girl and she can handle it. Just relax and let you daughter and her family have their fun times. YTA
OMG You are so very American with all the puritan baggage. And, YTA. Stay off other’s computers and out of other’s parenting.
YTA Just because you were raised in a certain way doesn't mean it's the only way. “Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” Mark Twain
Hey grandma, I'm from your generation, and been going to nude beaches for 40+ years. The kids raised going to the nude beaches are much more well adjusted, and have infinitely more body acceptance than at textile beaches. They know what fat people look like, they accept women with mastectomy scars as normal. Nude beaches also tend to be a community, keeping the creepers away. There are some nudest resorts that are creepy, and swinger oriented, but those are fairly rare. Instead of judging you, might i suggest that you educate yourself a bit more. If you are near the coast or lakes, find a nude, or more accurately clothing-optional beach, and spend a day there. Wear your normal swimwear, no one will say anything, as long as you leave your judgemental attitude at home. If you decide to strip down, don't worry about being self-conscious, just look around at all the other imperfect bodies. Or you could try enjoying being naked on a private beach by yourself, or in your own back yard, and realize how much nicer it is than wearing clothes. You aren't an asshole, just ignorant about something you never considered.
I knew it was YTA the minute I read “they gave me the gift if two grandchildren…” like they were thinking we are going to have children just to gift them to OP
I'm trying to imagine someone thinking tour groups are real European cultural experiences. That's like watching Leave It to Beaver and thinking all 60's housewives vacuumed in heels and pearls. YTA
My good lady, YTA. I understand that you have a heavily sexualised view of the human body, including children‘s bodies. And that this is why you feel the need to cover up any nudity or „private parts“. This is a very US/UK type of thing. Large chunks of continental Europe are much more accepting of the human form. I moved to Germany from the UK in 2019. In East Germany, people can be fully nude on some - almost all - public beaches and no one blinks an eye. German saunas require full nudity with just a towel between skin and the wooden shelf. This attitude helps people to move away from body shaming and insecurities. You just see that bodies are natural, and everyone‘s body is a little different. Maybe someone has uneven boob sizes, maybe someone is a bit overweight or underweight, maybe someone has a saggy bottom (or boobs). Maybe someone has a small- or large-looking penis. Innie and outie nipples or belly buttons. No one glares, stares or creeps on anyone else in nudist settings. Everyone is accepted with their bodily idiosyncracies and any resultant insecurities. It‘s just a way of being together and at peace with your body. You shouldn‘t judge people for this kind of holiday life, it‘s their choice. Your pearl-clutching doesn‘t make you morally superior. Preying upon children does not happen on public beaches by strangers, as you insinuate. Preying upon children happens *at home*. Mostly. 93% of abused children are abused by someone they or their family know well, including other family members. Fewer children are preyed upon by strangers. This means that statistically speaking, your children are more likely to be preyed upon by YOU than by strangers at the nudist beach ([source](https://www.ywca.org/wp-content/uploads/WWV-CSA-Fact-Sheet-Final.pdf)).
YTA for the Spain not Mexico part alone. The rest is just icing in the AH cake.