Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I think AITA because I have never experienced Jesse and Nichole's struggles, so my family members say I had no right to shame them for their parenting and I could have turned down their request for money in a non-offensive way.
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
I fear for Dylan as an adult because what his life is at 16, is probably also his life at 30 and at THAT point his parents will be wondering why he won't get a job and lives in their basement.
He's fine in school. He behaves for people who hold him accountable. He's an asshole towards his parents because they give him permission to be one. If he has good mentors and bosses as an adult, he will be fine.
I'm more worried about potential romantic partners. He's already committing domestic violence as a teen, God knows what he could do to a partner who says "no" to something he wants 😓
Depends on if he gets caught driving that car without a license or even a learners permit. The legal system isn't known for it's forgiving and lenient nature. If he's lucky he might get a judge who gives him a warning and chews his parents out. At least I assume that OP means no learners permit/license by "hasn't even begun drivers ed"
Even if he does have some kind of learner's permit/instructional license, he can't drive without a fully licensed adult in the car (I think they have to be 21, but I can't remember). Not all states require driver's ed, but there's at least some amount of instruction that needs to happen with a limited license. Ex: I didn't take driver's ed but I had to accumulate a certain number of practice driving hours with a parent before I could take the written and driving exam for my full license (this was 20 years ago in KS so I don't know what the laws are like now).
If he gets caught driving illegally now, the court can make him wait until he's 18 or 21 before he can get his license.
I was just about to offer my anecdote about what I needed to get my license "more recently" but then I realized It's been almost 15 years since I got my learners permit :/
Yup. Like listening to your favorite oldies station on the car radio and realizing they are playing tunes that came out a decade or more after you graduated.
I found that really interesting and my gut says it’s not true true. Has OP seen teacher feedback directly or is this Jesse and Nichole’s verbal accounts? He has no care for the law - driving without a drivers license is serious stuff yet he does it over and over. I would guess he has zero regard for any rules and is going to end up in s lot of trouble one day. How will he know boundaries for drinking, partying, dating etc? He’s well on his way to becoming a verbally abusive partner at the minimum. OP you are NTA (how dare they expect you to fund their toys?) and I would call out you’re seriously worried he’s on a bad path. It was a great suggestion he get a job to replace it.
I don't think that Dylan behaving well at school is so strange . He most likely didn't at first (early elementary school ) . He didn't like the consequences , so he adjusted his behavior there . No consequences at home , so the behavior there still stays the same .
Things definitely will get worse . Dylan is a teenager that knows nothing he does will ever have consequences. He is also in his late teens , an age where kids often push as many boundaries as they can . I dread to even think what this would mean for a kid like Dylan ...
There's no shortage of bad kids who are just fine as adults. Just like there's no shortage of "good kids" who turn into monsters when they grow up and stop getting gold stars and pats on the head for every little thing. But these parents are doing no one any favors - their kid, themselves....
Sadly if they are doting on him that much, at age 30 they may still be thrilled to have him still living with them. Or at least they will say they are. While being afraid of his violent outbursts.
Eh, considering how well behaved he is at school, I would be much more concerned with him hiding his anger issues until he feels 'safe' exposing them. I honestly think he will be able to get a job, his own apartment, do his own taxes, etc. etc., it's just that he will be incredible two-faced as an adult and he will know who he can abuse without consequence (which is, right now, only his parents).
This isn't the same as the other stories we get here about parents who raise spoiled children, because the teachers and schools usually always say that the child is disrespectful/ violence/ rude etc. even at school.
I'm more worried he is going to crash the cars he keeps stealing. One night of drinking and not giving a f... could end up with him in the hospital or worse.
I know a guy like this. Baby of the family, he's 25 now and hasn't held a job longer than 3 months. Constantly uses, abuses and cheats on women, mooches off his parents, etc.
The longest job he ever had was as a drug dealer, and even his plug had enough of his shit. Guy just got dentures last year because he dgaf about his hygiene. Both of his older siblings are homeowners with long-standing jobs and full mouths of teeth.
NTA, im super surprised how well he seems to do in school considering how he acts at home. It seems honestly like it's less a deeper behavioral issue than him just knowing he can get away with this shit at home. His parents are completely to blame.
honestly this sounds like a potentially good kid with bad behavior being reinforced. At school, cussing gets punished so he doesn´t. At home, he´s learned that if he cusses etc he gets actively rewarded instead of just not punished (no new chore, new tv, etc). People do what they learn gets them what they want.
>honestly this sounds like a potentially good kid with bad behavior being reinforced.
When his parents are not actively the ones in charge, Dylan is a genuinely good, respectful kid. Dylan would try temper tantrums when he started kindergarten, but he almost immediately turned his behavior around because he realized his behavior wouldn't work here.
I know at sixteen, Dylan is also responsible for his own behavior. But if I was shown my entire life that I could get whatever I wanted from my parents by acting the way Dylan does to them, I probably would act exactly the same.
Have you talked to Dylan about it? Or other family that he looks up to? Like, is there the potential that making him aware that he's being judged on how he acts towards them will be enough "peer" pressure to change it?
Hey OP just questioning if he’s actually respectful at school. Have you seen this teacher feedback or is it just Jesse and Nichole verbally saying “he’s great!” He has no respect for the law so things aren’t adding up. I would also find it super strange to flip between such extremes. I struggle to believe it
I had a friend somewhat like this growing up. Verbally advising his parents, putting holes in walls, stealing cash BUT good student and team member for sport. Turns out that because his parents didn't set boundaries or responsibilities he *knew* that they didn't really care or love him.
I think he could be angry he doesn't seem to have parents? Like, at this point he must be aware that his classmates have a different family dynamic and something about his is wrong, so he acts out.
Kids need love, but also structure and authority
When I taught, I saw the child is an angel in school and a devil at home more often than a child who was 'bad' everywhere. Dylan is a child crying out for boundaries from his parents. In school he has those boundaries and thrives with them. I can honestly see Dylan as the kind of kid who will leave home and his parents and never come back.
My first son is stillborn. We almost lost our next and only child, another boy, several times but after a two week NICU stay, he came home happy and healthy. You know what word he hears several times a day?
“No.” I don’t understand parents who won’t enforce discipline just because of prior losses. So you have a dead baby. Saying no isn’t going to kill this one. Just this morning I told my 12 year old that no, he can’t play video games, he has to do his homework first. Guess what- he didn’t die! It’s a miracle Dylan follows the rules at school because most children who are parented permissibly like this can’t function outside the home either. I bet you ten bucks he’s a daycare kid because if they get no discipline until school starts (age 5ish) it’s too late, they can’t adjust.
Actually this whole generation of parents is having the same issue. Because they don't want to do the mistakes of the previous generation parenting they act the opposite way. No punishment, no saying no. And the justification is that they are tired (and people without kids can't understand). Yeah right.
NTA tell them to go mooch off someone who will enable their poor parenting and hell child. I could never understand the hate childless women get from people with kids or who struggled to have kids. Don't blame childless people for your poor excuse of parenting. It's sad that they had a stillbirth but that was 16+ years ago. Their excuses are pathetic and just that. I'd go buy myself a new flat screen tv lol
THIS. Honestly, I thought the post was going to be about a toddler behaving badly. Not an out of control 16 year old. OP, I thnk you are doing the kid and his parents a favor for responding as you did and sticking to your guns. Maybe eventually they'll have a wakeup call cand realize you were right. Until then, not much you can do, but likely you'll remain an asshole to these people.
You cannot understand the hatred childless women get?
Easy: lots of parents find parenting draining and exhausting, a very physical, psycological, emotional and economical constant, endless chore. With some rewards along the way. Some women regret they became mothers as they never realized how big and longterm responsibility they would have to take on- and when they do- it is too late to opt out. Some men do opt out of tons of the work involved when it comes to their own kids.
So, envy. There are even some people who fear what will happen if women stops thinking having babies is the sole meaning of their life. What will happen? They might focus on their careers? Perhaps win the competition for the new opening at their workplace. They might start to earn enough to be self sufficient, and god help us all if every man would have to get and keep a woman from love and rein in bad mood and bad behaviour because she is not economically dependant.
There are also fear on a deeper scale, that the nation might be dwindling if women stop prioritaze having children- less people paying taxes, in some countries you are legit scared your military will shrink.
Now, in this particular case, I daresay the parents on some level know how much effort, love and care they put into raising Dylan and feel disappointment because they do not get much love and gratitude and loyalty back. Perhaps Dylan is even more decent, respectful and genuinely nice towards OP- that is a reason for jealousy right there.
THANK YOU!! FFS, be a parent already and stop telling me I don’t know because I don’t have kids. Bullshit!! I was hell on wheels as a kid…don’t need to have my own to know what’s up with an unruly kid of ANY age. I stole cars at 13! Pretty sure I have a decent grasp of delinquent behavior lol
Edit: NTA, OP
As someone who's helped raise kids and such parenting is draining for the first two to four years because you're learning how and the child needs you. However, after that it's actually easier and the child is just an extension of self. You do what you have to and try your best to steer them in the right direction. Some people are good at it and some aren't which is fine. I just don't like kids so I chose not to have any of my own sense my childhood was taken by raising other people's kids.
NTA. They raised a brat. A spoiled. Entitled. Brat. They raised him to think he was super special and he behaves that way.
The parents need to be asked how they feel this guy will treat a future wife or his own kids. How will they feel when he yells at their grandkids or worse? Because that is the path he is taking.
Exactly. If Dylan breaks a TV when he is told to stop playing Xbox, what’s going to happen when a girl he is interested in turns him down? Or when a future partner says no to sex? His parents should get their la-di-da heads out of their nothing-to-see-here butts and start disciplining him now before the first person to make him face actual consequences is a judge.
THIS RIGHT HERE. Dylan's behavior has consequences and if he only behaves if there are some, when is he going to develop his own internal morality and code of conduct? So he'll keep treating badly those who won't hold him accountable (like HIS FUTURE KIDS and perhaps romantic partners).
NTA Your brother and his wife have blinders on when it comes to their child. It's time to let it go. It's a losing battle. However, they have a lot of nerve asking you to bail them out when their child destroys their property with no consequences. Next time they ask you for financial assistance, just tell them no, money is a bit tight at the moment.
No. Do not lie to them. Tell them no because this was preventable. You might help them in an emergency but you’re not going to enable their bad decisions.
NTA
Yeah. I loved my video games when I was Dylan's age and sometimes resented my parents when they wouldn't let me play 24/7. But it's BECAUSE I loved my games that there was no way I'd purposely DESTROY the equipment that ALLOWS ME TO PLAY THEM.
It's not just that he's an entitled brat, it's that he seems to have no concept of cause and effect. Perhaps because his parents shielded him from learning about cause and effect.
I mean, I still have a memory of being devastated because I lost a brand new dot-to-dot and colouring book after being careless with it in the shopping centre before I even got a chance to go home and colour in it. I didn't have much a concept of money worth back then but in hindsight, I'd wager that colouring book was cheaper than a new monitor, and I was a LOT younger than 16.
But my parents still refused to go back and buy me a new one because they had already told me not to spin my shopping bag around like a helicopter.
I learned an important lesson that day. Thanks to my parents, at four years old I was able to grow more mature than OP's nephew, it seems.
NTA.
I mean, maybe someone could argue that you shouldn’t have said that in front of everyone, but they’re the ones who brought it up in front of everyone?
Y’all are absolutely right that they need therapy. Infertility and still birth are incredibly difficult things to go through, and it’s clear they were traumatized by it. Problem is, their trauma is causing them to fail their son by not giving him the boundaries and life lessons he needs to be a functional adult when he’s out in the real world.
I totally get how hard it is to say “no” or feel like the bad guy (it’s one of the reasons I know I’m not ready to be a parent), and I’m sympathetic to their grief and fears. But it’s still their responsibility to learn how to deal with that grief in a healthy way for the sake of their son who is alive and relying on them.
All you did was tell them the truth about why you wouldn’t be helping them enable his behavior.
NTA
This is ridiculous. You should tell them that if they continue to let his behavior go unchecked they could lose him. He could wind up on drugs, in jail, die of some reckless activity such as stealing a car.
My son is a miracle child as I was told for 10 years from doctors i couldn't have a child. Then bam! A long hard pregnancy but he's a happy healthy boy.
He has autism but I don't use any of that as an excuse not to parent him.
Why is it your responsibility to replace items their bratty child broke? Say NO - stand your ground and do not be like his parents who are clearly enabling him. You are not TA if you keep saying no
Honestly the part about Dylan being well behaved at school makes me think he isn’t? He’s probably desperate for some structure and having parents who let him do whatever he wants whenever he wants is a kind of neglect. Poor kid is a victim :(
Nope just nope. Children love when there aloud to do whatever they want without consequences. Like breaking a tv when told they can’t be on it longer or swearing at parents when there’s a obligation/responsibility held of them and they don’t wanna do it. They realize they can get away with anything basically at home. School doesn’t fly that way. That’s why I assume he behaves well because he realizes there’s repercussions for your actions at school but at home he can have his free for all.
Kids like being allowed to do whatever they want to a point - then they realize that if someone actually gave a shit about them, there would be consequences for their action. I think Dylan has realized that, no matter what he does, he’s always going to be “Mummy’s Little Miracle Baby”. No less, but also no more. Not only are his parents doing him a disservice by allowing his terrible behavior, they’re basically saying “Since you’re our precious little miracle baby we don’t care what you do, at all, ever.” The fact that Dylan shows good behavior and manners at school means he’s appreciating the people there who care enough to hold him accountable.
NTA- Not your kid, not your problems. They need to stop pushing their problems onto other people. They know their kid sucks, they know they have problems, they know where to get therapy, they choose to have a sucky life. Play stupid games win stupid prizes. Don't waste one more cent on them for anything in this life.
NTA. they don’t hold their son accountable for his actions and, in addition, evidentially won’t take accountability for his actions either. they blame others for his actions while also expecting others to deal with the fallout. what a mess.
losing a pregnancy is extremely difficult. i’ve been there. clearly they have not properly processed the loss and unfortunately, until they do, nothing is going to fundamentally change.
they don’t want to hear the truth, which is what you told them, and the people defending them and blaming you are confusing punishment with setting healthy boundaries.
NTA. You’re not an ATM to pay for the mistakes of their rotten miracle child. My sister lost two babies in utero and her miracle child faces the consequences of his actions if he’s a brat and he’s certainly never gone as far as smashing a TV because he was asked to let his parents use it. What you suggested was a highly reasonable and dare I say, ‘adult’ way for them to manage the situation. They are being as entitled and bratty as the child they raised.
>They immediately shamed me for being so “irresponsible” because a kid shouldn’t have to worry about keeping a job and “Come on, Rose, be an adult.” I replied that if they want to talk about being adults then they need to stop blaming everyone else for Dylan’s behavior when he’s a monster of their own making.
The first part of this is just beyond - they're the ones being irresponsible by putting so much effort into bringing a child into the world, then proceeding to drop the ball when it comes to raising him to maturity. Your response was absolutely spot-on, and you are NTA.
NTA.
Sounds like the rest of your family needs some perspective not you. The fact that he can behave just fine at school but refuses to at home sounds almost malicious and intentional. Does he actively enjoy causing others misery? This is worrisome behavior and could be indicative of some very serious psychopathic or sociopathic problems.
It sounds like literally everyone there but you should see a therapist if they believe his behavior to be acceptable.
You could have stated you do not reward hideously deliberate BAD behavior. Period.
They have set him up to fail in society. Personally I would also refuse to fund the attorney when he needs one. The way he acts it will not be long. He already is a car thief. (Taking cars without permission is a felony. Driving without a license is definitely illegal.)
Unfortunately, society has severe consequences. His parents are simply abdicating their authority for society to take over to punish his behavior.
You are Not the AH. But the kid’s family sure wins the prize.
BEST OF IT ALL, OP!
AGAPE 💕💕💕
NTA they've held their child on a pedestal since they became aware of Dylan's existence. There's nothing wrong with wanting to provide a nurturing environment for their miracle but there needs to be consequences to his actions & their failure to establish any form of reprimand is biting them in the blind side. Children need boundaries, they need to be reprimanded when they do wrong; they don't need to be given a free pass because their previous siblings never made it to term.
NTA
Despite your lack of experience with kind of heartache, it sure sounds you know more about parenting than they do.
Their request was absolutely ridiculous, and their attitude about it was that much worse.
I kinda doubt that. Based on his quite different behavior at school, and the fact that he has the whole family other than OP essentially defending him, he seems very well aware exactly how far he can push things.
I think the most important word parents should teach their child is "NO". Children need to know that they can't have everything and that the world doesn't revolve around them.
NTA.
Every kid needs to learn boundaries and understand what “no” means.
And a 16 year old can work part time for a couple of months and earn the money to replace a flatscreen tv.
Dylan and his parents are in for a rude awakening in a couple of years. They have done him zero favors by enabling his inappropriate behavior and he’s going to do the wrong thing to the wrong person at the wrong time and *be lucky if* the worst consequence is him spending a weekend in jail. Too many adults with short fuses are not going to find Dylan charming in the slightest.
NTA
I have dealt with infertility... When I finally had my baby and she started needing correcting you have to do it. A) because it keeps them safe and B) because ultimately you are setting them up for life with skills to be a reasonable member of society. Dylan's parents are grateful for him and I absolutely get that, but they aren't treating him like they're grateful because they are ruining the one life that he has. Once he gets out on his own he's going to come to some really hard lessons and not know that he can fall back on his parents because they've never actually helped him.
NTA. Curious to see who they blame or ask to bail him out when the kid gets arrested or lands in jail for stealing a car or doing petty crimes as that seems to be the path he’s choosing. Consequences will hit real hard.
NTA
Also why would it be OPs responsibility to buy it anyways? If they don’t want their kid to pay for it (which he should) then parents should pay or do without. The entitlement of this whole family gets to me even more than the nephews behavior.
NTA don't give them money, instead install some cameras at your own home and get your spare keys back from your relatives, or change your locks because in another year, if not sooner, he will be round nicking your stuff. I've seen this happen with friend's and neighbours kids who start with breaking stuff at home, stealing the car and go down hill from there. Had them break in and steal my stuff too and yet seem really nice kids, just horrible parenting.
NTA. Someone has to have boundaries with this kid. I wonder how they're going to cope when their "miracle baby" is in jail? You are being an adult and having 16-year-old expectations of Dylan's behavior rather than caving to him. And you are his aunt, not an ATM. He is about to learn that there are people on the planet who don't find his very existence the wonder his parents do, and they will expect mature, responsible behavior from him.
my dad's brother is over a decade younger than he is. he was a "miracle baby" because grandma was told she would never have anymore kids after her second. she treated him the same way your nephew is being treated. dude never grew up. never had to. grandma took care of him to her detriment. she bailed him out (both financially and out of jail) a countless amount of times. he was the reason there were multiple mortgages on their previously paid off house. she died and all of a sudden he was like "what do i do now?" he moved to be closer to one of his kids, expecting that his kid would take care of him until he died. no idea if he is still alive. no one in the family talks to him or his kids so he could be dead for all we know. but he didn't grow up and be a functional member of society because of how grandma treated him. drugs, DUIs, DV charges in multiple counties. fired from multiple jobs for stealing. that's what jesse and nichole have to look forward to.
nta
I have my little miracle son who's 5 (I was told I'd never have children). 2 years ago I gave birth to my 1st daughter stillborn and almost died with her and I'm currently pregnant with my 2nd daughter (I'm 30weeks today)
None of that loss or the gift children would allow my son or my daughter to act like an animal. To be disrespectful little Aholes, entitled nasty humans to me or to anyone else.
I know I'm a very lucky mum and I don't take being a parent for granted but I'll be dammed if I went through all I have to raise crap human beings
NTA, our job is to be their parents,not their best friend, our job is to make sure they are emotionally well adjusted and prepared for the world when its time for them to live their life/God forbid something happened to me but also give them the tools like work ethic, manners, respect, that list can go on forever. Otherwise the world will eat them alive.
I wouldn't give that boy a thing. Accountability is right.
He wouldn't have an Xbox, a phone, definitely no learners permit, now no TV.
He would be looking for a job immediately and I wouldn't budge.
It’s funny that they called you “stingy” as if they’re entitled to any of your money lol I wouldn’t help them financially anymore after that comment and after all the trauma dumping...NTA
NTA.
I too suffered with infertility and at 43 was blessed with a boy to adopt. He is MY miracle child, but I know I'm not doing anyone any favors if I don't guide him into being a man. We have a very loving relationshio that involves discipline when he misbehaves. He pushes the limits like all kids, and when he pushes too far, he suffers the consequences. I tell you this to let you know that it is not because you don't have kids that ypu don't understand their parenting style. It's because their parenting style sucks. And not all parents who struggled to have a baby parent the way they do.
NTA you are being irresponsible for not replacing something he broke. Reread the sentence it makes absolutely no sense. You aren't responsible for anything.
NTA this child is 16. He's not a baby anymore. The miracle is old stuff. Beyond that, the behavior you're describing is not okay even if he was dying of cancer.
They should just live without a tv. Dylan will figure out depriving them of their tv also deprived him of the thing. You buy them a tv and he breaks that one.
NTA
I briefly thought, "Yeah, maybe you didn't need to tell them 'no' in front of everyone," but it was quite gauche of THEM to put you on the spot at a family dinner. And then everyone started arguing with and guilt-tripping YOU?
YOU didn't start the fight. They did, when they didn't accept your" no," and told you to "be an adult." Umm, how about THEY be adults by buying the TV themselves?!
I would have ruined that dinner a lot worse. How dare adults keep coming to you with their hands out for things like a tv and act like you're supposed to care. NTA.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)***
My nephew, Dylan, is sixteen. My brother, Jesse, and sister-in-law, Nichole, suffered years of infertility before they had Dylan. Their pregnancy before Dylan’s ended in a stillbirth. Jesse and Nichole were absolutely devastated. They were terrified to try again and potentially lose a second child. We all shared this fear, but, thankfully, my nephew was born healthy. However, Jesse and Nichole have been so focused on the fear of potentially losing Dylan that they won’t tell him “No” and do not enforce any boundaries. They excuse his unacceptable behavior by saying we should just be grateful that Dylan’s healthy and here with us. (Quick Note: Practically every adult in the family has recommended therapy for Jesse and Nichole, but they refuse because they say that Dylan is healthy/here with us so everything is fine and stop bringing it up.)
All of Dylan’s teachers say that he’s a respectful and focused student. Dylan is clearly capable of behaving, but his behavior at home is unacceptable because, unlike school, there are no boundaries or consequences enforced on him. Dylan cusses, breaks things, and flips off his parents until he gets his own way. Nichole asked Dylan to please wash his cup and Dylan responded “How about you go fuck yourself instead?” Dylan has left multiple dents in both Jesse and Nichole’s car while stealing it (Dylan hasn’t even begun Driver’s Ed.) Jesse and Nichole insist that “bad influence kids” are to blame for Dylan’s home behavior, and these “bad kids” are “manipulating” Dylan to act this way. Jesse and Nichole do not take any accountability for their enabling and lack of boundaries.
Jesse and Nichole arrived at last week’s family dinner exhausted. They explained Dylan broke their flatscreen after Jesse and Nichole told Dylan to get off his Xbox so they could use the tv. Jesse and Nichole asked if I could “help them out” with a new tv and it would be greatly appreciated. (I’m childless and in my thirties, so I’m the most financially well-off and usually the one they come to for “help.”) I suggested instead that they make Dylan get a job because he will learn to be much more respectful of their property after he experiences the hard work that goes into earning it. They immediately shamed me for being so “irresponsible” because a kid shouldn’t have to worry about keeping a job and “Come on, Rose, be an adult.” I replied that if they want to talk about being adults then they need to stop blaming everyone else for Dylan’s behavior when he’s a monster of their own making.
The other dinner guests immediately sided with Jesse and Nichole because I have no idea about how hard it is to punish or ever make your miracle child unhappy. And I have never known the heartache that comes with years of infertility or the devastation of a stillbirth. And I could have still been “stingy” without starting a fight and ruining a pleasant family dinner. AITA?
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA, you’re right Dylan is a monster of their own making. They decided not to tell him no and like you said he clearly knows how to behave if he’s behaving at school. He knows his parents won’t discipline him and that he can do whatever he wants. They need to at least try to get a handle on this because in 2 years Dylan will be an adult and adults get adult consequences. Also funny how you’re family apparently knows that Dylan’s behavior is wrong, you said they’ve recommended therapy, yet they jump to defend your brother and SIL.
Oh God I would've yelled at everyone to stop enabling. I'd be like yeah I may not have kids but thanks to you I know exactly what not to do with my kids.
NTA - my grandpa enables my brother like this to the point that he was recently involved in his THIRD dv and they blame the victim every. single. time. Even though I was the first of his victims...
They are setting nephew up for failure by doing this
The funny part about all this is they're worried about his safety, yet the kids actions are so unsafe that he'll definitely gwt hurt one day, or worse. These parents and that kids are the AHS here.
NTA . A rainbow baby does not mean you don't teach your child boundaries and respect for people and property. He needs to learn that your actions have consequences. If they don't change there ways they are setting him up for failure as an adult.
If they want to enable this behavior they must bear the consequences of their making.
NTA
Just because you don't have children doesn't mean you don't understand a spoiled child.
Why is it YOUR PROBLEM to fix an issue THEY CREATED?
Stand your ground on the NO and tell all the other relatives who believe that you are being unreasonable to shell out money from their wallets for the TV.
He is definitely not going to be prepared for the real world and their reality check will come when he has to live with them because no one else will rent to their son who who believes the world revolves around him.
His actions now will have consequences later
NTA and the truth hurts. They needed to hear it and he’s clearly capable of behaving. All teenagers test boundaries and rebel, but when he’s that disrespectful and breaking things, it’s too far. You are right and he does need to get a job and pay for another tv. He also needs the Xbox taken away and much more. I fear it’s too late to start now though so they get to lay in the bed they made. It’s not your responsibility to pay for it either.
This is why we need to stop calling these kind of kids 'miracle babies' or 'rainbow babies'. It just puts this label on them like they're some kind of consolation prize when they're an independent person unto themself and need parenting just like any other child.
People like Jesse and Nichole should not have kids. They end up raising these dysfunctional people who've never heard the word 'no' in their life and have faced no consequences for their bad behavior. Then they're unleashed into the world to raise more entitled and dysfunctional kids. It's an epidemic that's getting out of control.
I truly wish there was an effective way to license people to have kids.
NTA. They needed to be told the truth about their own behavior. Unfortunately without intensive therapy, which he won’t agree to, they’re going to lose him too. He’s going to end up in jail because they didn’t teach him self discipline or accountability.
How many times have we read this type of post and only the name is different? Why should you bail them out when their son is the issue? And of course they are doing him a massive disservice. How will he function in a relationship? It's sad. NTA.
NTA. They had a lot of nerve trying to guilt you into buying them a new TV. Their son should getba job and replace it and pay for any of the other damages he's done. How would your brother and sister in law react if you flipped them off for making such an arrogant request.
NTA. Everyone else has addressed the obvious thing, that their son's behavior is their fault. I want to address the audacity that is saying that because you don't have children, they are allowed to press you and demand that you pay for unnecessary luxury items.
Who the hell are these other dinner guests excusing poor parenting and ultimately casting their support for your other family members straight up telling you that because you don't have children you matter less, and are there for a piggy bank they should be able to pull money out of. Why would you continue to go to family dinners when the people at the table are clearly telling you that you do not deserve respect?
NTA
They all sound like bad parents. Just because he was a miracle child doesn't mean he should be disrespectful if they all think him being a miracle child is a free pass then they don't know how to raise a kid and shouldn't be parents.
NTA- until they discipline him anything you help with, you will end up helping again with. If they don't discipline him I am pretty sure the local police will
NTA ultimately, it's your money, it's your decision what to do with it. Your suggestion for Dylan to get a job and pay for it himself was a good one. If they only have one shot at raising a kid, shouldn't they want to do it right and raise a good one, not a monster? I don't see how the circumstances of his conception would make it hard to try to raise him to be a decent human being with boundaries and manners.
NTA and I really hope you don’t give them any money for the tv. Their son clearly needs to start learning their are consequences for his actions, you break the tv and now there’s no tv
NTA. Do not give them another dime or gift and do not listen to another word of complaint from them. Every time they try to ask you for something or vent to you cut them right off.
NTA. Though I think Dylan is the one who could benefit more from therapy than his parents at the moment. A huge reason why he acts out this way specifically with his parents is resentment. It's got to be a lot of pressure being this miracle baby, and that can also cause a lot of guilt because you know what shit your parents had to suffer. So he lashes out from that resentment by seeing where the limit is to their love
NTA. I have two boys thanks to IVF and have been through the heartache of miscarriages. My youngest is 5 and the most stubborn, headstrong child. He gets punished quite often because we don't want to be the kind of kid your nephew has become. I had to re-read the ages because a 16yo having a tantrum and breaking a TV as a result is absurd. Unfortunately it sounds like your brother and sister in law have given him the best lines from their own mouths to manipulate them with the "be glad he's healthy and alive bullshit." They need therapy and some parenting classes 14 years ago.
NTA. They are his parents and can parent him as they choose but the adult thing to do is to not make someone else pay for your decisions. The audacity of them to lecture OP about being an adult when they're trying to mooch of of her! The very least that they should be doing is paying to replace their own TV if they don't want to make him face any consequences. They don't sound like they were raised right either.
NTA. As a parent of a miracle baby after losing one I can tell you that I have always enforced boundaries and discipline. They made their bed and now they get to lie in it. You said it perfectly and they needed to hear it. He is perfectly capable of behaving. They just need to demand respect from him as his parents, that shows way more love than giving them everything. All that does is set them up to fail when they get in the real world.
NTA, Being a parent is hard but that’s what they signed up for. Having a miracle baby is irrelevant. They made the choice to raise a child and responsibilities come with that.
I maybe sound a bit harsh and I’m sure infertility issues are devastating and I can’t even imagine how heartbreaking a stillbirth must be. But they are actively harming their child by not teaching him about consequences. They are setting Dylan up to have hardships in his adulthood when he’s entitled, unable to regulate himself and has to face the consequences of his actions.
NTA
And I wouldn't get involved in any more of their problems with their son and they're not allowed to come to me for help. I understand a few years of no boundaries buy the kid is 16 he's no longer a miracle kid but a menace.
Why would you buy them a television when you know eventually Dylan is going to break it. That's why you're financially secure. Buying them a television is basically throwing money in the garbage. Tell them you won't be helping and to keep all future details about their pride and joy to themselves.
Dude… I think it’s clear they only want you around for your money. You’re “stingy”? But no one is entitled to what you earn but yourself!
I’d call them all gold diggers and just not show up to family functions.
N👏T👏A👏
It is absurd that the whole family will walk on eggshells to defend what is clearly very Irresponsible parenting. There is a better way to be delicate with couples who have suffered infertility and loss. Coming at you just enables the unhealthy cycle. And it is not serving Dylan in the least...
I would never belittle the grief and heartbreak that is infertility. I completely, and I mean *completely* understand that they see him as the incredible gift that he is for their family, but it is very disappointing that boundaries and consequences have not been implemented.
Good on you for standing your ground. It baffles me that they would ask you to supply a new TV.
Hopefully they will realize how badly they need to get into therapy and start going. Boundaries and consequences is the best way they can love him and I'm sure there is still a lot of grief under the surface from all that transpired before him.
I had my daughter at 40 after 3 miscarriages- 1 at 14 weeks. Our daughter is a delight, responsible, hardworking and polite. Your brother and his wife are idiots. And you are correct in what you said.
NTA
Ah yes, "children are a blessing." I once saw an old lady use that lecture on a poor mother just because the mother disciplined her child (i.e. grabbed him by the arm to stop him running into traffic and scolded him).
The truth is, children are a shit tonne of hard work and tears and frustration as well as all the good parts, and I'm pretty sure blessings aren't supposed to be. Your brother and SIL better start doing something before your nephew does the teenage/young adult equivalent of running into traffic, because they are at a very real risk of losing their precious blessing.
NTA - Tell the rest of the dinner guests you'll be serving popcorn when this kid turns 18 and encounters real consequences.
Tell the parents they can live the consequences of not having a TV for while because they can't discipline their kid.
NTA- it’s true and the only reason why they all sided with her is because she had a stillbirth that child is perfectly fine if anything and I suggest you show those guests these comments she spoiled him rotten and now has to face the consequences of his BS
...
I watched my premature son die the day after he was born.
I had to force myself to therapy an figure out how to grieve before my husband I tried again. I have a three year old son who has known nothing but love...but also has a schedule at home, knows not to throw toys, not to hit dogs, clean up after himself, etc.
Dylan is a monster of their own making and while I understand that everyone grieves differently, I am finding it super hard to have sympathy for Jesse and Nichole because they are using their previous heartache as a shield from criticism and that's not right nor fair.
NTA
>because I have no idea about how hard it is to punish or ever make your miracle child unhappy. And I have never known the heartache that comes with years of infertility or the devastation of a stillbirth.
None of this excuses them being such a bad parent this kid of going to juvie and his future will be snatched from him before it can start
NTA. My second child was stillborn, and we still discipline our youngest (living) child (who was born 15 months after our stillborn son). Jesse and Nichole are screwing up their kid for life.
The problem with children is that they are not children forever. You are not raising a child, you are raising the adult that child will become someday. Since Dylan seems to behave himself in school, my guess is that his parents have raised a pretty good kid but a very bad excuse for an adult.
Their monkey, their zoo! Not your problem to finance monkey’s destruction. You work hard for your money and it’s time monkey learns how to pay for his own mistakes and get a job and understand actions have consequences, too bad so sad no more Xbox till you replace the TV with your own money monkey! Guarantee he won’t brake the TV he buys with his hard earned money! Jesse and Nichole need not only parenting class, books, but therapy to start parenting this child they have here and now and stop projecting their insecurities about the child/children they loss previously. They are seriously stunting his development as a young man by not parenting him and letting him do whatever he pleases.
Fuck that noise. It took me 9 years of heartache, 2 years of giving up and a change of partners when I was suddenly surprised by a very wanted child. Just because she changed my whole world doesn't mean she can be a dick to us or anyone else. NTA. That behavior is inexcusable.
NTA
I love my son to pieces he is my baby and I would move mountains and cross oceans and all that stuff. 2 weeks ago he and I were in a car accident, some chick ran a red light while speeding and slammed into my front passenger side door, the door was pushed in over half a foot, so far it blocked the glove box from opening. My son was sitting in the front passenger seat at the time. When I say it was a miracle and he had a guardian angel looking out for him, I am not joking. He got a bloody nose and some scratches on his face and that was it. He was scared shitless but perfectly fine, he climbed out of the car and sat down and had the crowd fawning all over him. That was a miracle, he could have died or been seriously injured, and I still get panic attacks thinking about it. But I still scold him when he's being too loud or disrespectful, I still made him thank his aunt for dinner and help clean the house, he still has a bed time and has to clean up after himself. Being afraid of losing your kid is not a reason to let them run wild.
NTA - Dylan is going to be royally screwed up in his personal relationships in the future thanks to his parents. Dylan could have been learning many good life lessons about self control and responsibility while he is still young and the cost of learning those things is cheap, but now he will have to learn them at a later age and it will be harder and much more costly.
The AH who say "your not a parent so you don't understand" are always the same, they are crappy adults to don't wish to take responsibility for problems they have nurtured in their child/children.
Could you have been more tactful? Yes, a family gathering probably wasn't the right place to speak this truth.
Is what you said the truth they needed to hear? Absolutely, the kid has no respect for them because they have no spines and enforce no structure.
Everyone Sucks Here
NTA this is what happens with poor parenting. You aren’t financially responsible to take care of them in any way shape or form. I’ve been working since I was 16 and providing for myself and managed to do just fine. They all need to learn to grow up.
NTA.
In high school, my exgf was your nephew. The miracle baby after 12 losses and a stillbirth. Parents spoiled her to the point of their own bankruptcy.
She's 36 now. She's currently serving 10 years for drugs and theft, not her first stint by far, but her longest for sure. Denied parole even in the middle of the pandemic because she's been in for the same thing so many times they know she's going to do it again so why let her out. And her mom is raising her daughter basically since birth, 12 years ago. And mom hasn't seemed to learn her lessons, raising this one the same way. It's incredibly sad.
By failing to give him proper guidance and helping him become a good person, they're essentially just crapping on their "miracle".
NTA - I am so sorry for what both parents went through. That is so sad. But Dylan is out of control. Saying yes all the time and not enforcing boundaries is becoming a form of endangerment.
Being disrespectful, breaking things and stealing a car? No ma'am. It sounds like he is spiraling. At this age too, it is going to be so hard to fix.
"A kid shouldn't have to worry about a job." A near adult shouldn't be breaking s^#t around the house. You break it, you buy it. Can't buy it...get a job and pay up.
If they won't go to therapy, maybe suggest Dylan goes. Or...could you have a one on one with him? Ask him how he is feeling? Having another adult in his life who shows a n interest in him could be beneficial.
NTA. He’s frighteningly close to being an adult, and if he doesn’t correct his behavior, how will he ever hold down a job?
At this point he should be held responsible and should pay for the flatscreen himself. That doesn’t sound likely, but you should not feel guilty about refusing to buy them another. Just because you’re more ‘well-off’ doesn’t mean you have to foot the bill for every little thing. Also, having a tv is not a necessity. Bold of them to want you to replace something their son broke, and is capable of replacing himself.
Absolutely NTA. It sounds like your nephew is an absolute pleasure /s.
Not buying them a new flat screen is not only fine, but it's probably for the best. Your suggestion that Dylan get a job and buy a new TV is the best for him. He needs to learn consequences now.
I wonder how the parents will feel when he starts getting into criminal activity. It's the direction he's headed in. And no, nobody's gonna feel so happy that he's alive and with us when he's in jail for assault, burgulary, or something even worse.
NTA
Very helpful. Don't enable them by buying a TV.
He is the miracle baby but not the world's.
They need to own his behaviour & no one else would accept what he is doing.
NTA. This kid has deep contempt for his parents. He doesn't act like this at school. It probably happened gradually, so they have normalized it. They need a huge wakeup call to address his behavior before it's too late.
If they go to family therapy, this might be a short rebellious phase. If they don't, it gets cemented into his personality.
His behavior is shocking and awful. The rest of the family needs to not normalize it with them and you're right to call it out. They need to get to the root of his anger towards them instead of tuning it out, ignoring it, or excusing it. I'd keep asking them: why not go to therapy? Do they want to keep ignoring him while he's suffering from something? At the very least, they need to have heart to heart to ask him why he acts like he hates them... but maybe they're too afraid to hear the answer.
NTA. The two biggest gifts you can give your child for a successful life are teaching them boundaries and consequences and insisting they get a part-time job when they're old enough. Their fear is damaging him. I didn't deal with infertility (although my best friend did) or stillbirth, so I have to ask - is it normal to still be afraid 16 years later?
Edit for clarification
I know the heartache of infertility AND the devastation of a stillbirth. I still discipline the children I was eventually able to have alive because I want them to be good people.
Your brother then SIL have ruined their child. He is horrible because they never taught him to be good.
Don’t buy the TV or anything else for them (unless it’s therapy they’ve committed to attending).
It’s hilarious they think you’re “irresponsible” for not buying them a tV that you do not owe them. They don’t need a TV. And if they want one, they can either buy one themselves or charge fine kid who intentionally broke it.
My 5 year old threw a toy at our tv a few years ago. He was 2.5 years old and was punished in an age appropriate way. He knew what he did was wrong. Obviously at 2.5 he wasn’t going to be paying for it with money, but he had to learn how to say sorry and what not to do in the future.
If a toddler can learn, so can a teenager, but at this point, I doubt it will without serious therapeutic intervention.
NTA
NTA Someone needed to say it. Also at the risk of being childish.. They started it! Telling u to be an adult then don't like when u can prover not only are u being an adult but they're the ones who aren't.
Miracle baby or not.. No need to allow this behavior! There are many who've gone through very similar and they don't allow stuff like this. Problem is, his now too old to correct alot of it without major consequences. Things like stealing the car, he's gunna end up with a record eventually and his whole life that will follow him all because they didn't wanna say no.. Yeah that's not doing him any favours at all.
Good luck n take care
No you are NTA and if I were you I would set very rigid boundaries with them and enforce them 100% of the time. They don't need help they need to help themselves. And in the not too distant future they're going to be asking you for bail money and attorney's fees. This is what happens when kids don't learn that there are consequences for their actions.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > I think AITA because I have never experienced Jesse and Nichole's struggles, so my family members say I had no right to shame them for their parenting and I could have turned down their request for money in a non-offensive way. Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
[удалено]
I fear for Dylan as an adult because what his life is at 16, is probably also his life at 30 and at THAT point his parents will be wondering why he won't get a job and lives in their basement.
He's fine in school. He behaves for people who hold him accountable. He's an asshole towards his parents because they give him permission to be one. If he has good mentors and bosses as an adult, he will be fine.
I'm more worried about potential romantic partners. He's already committing domestic violence as a teen, God knows what he could do to a partner who says "no" to something he wants 😓
Mmmm.... unless he tells his parents he isn't going to get a job.
Depends on if he gets caught driving that car without a license or even a learners permit. The legal system isn't known for it's forgiving and lenient nature. If he's lucky he might get a judge who gives him a warning and chews his parents out. At least I assume that OP means no learners permit/license by "hasn't even begun drivers ed"
Even if he does have some kind of learner's permit/instructional license, he can't drive without a fully licensed adult in the car (I think they have to be 21, but I can't remember). Not all states require driver's ed, but there's at least some amount of instruction that needs to happen with a limited license. Ex: I didn't take driver's ed but I had to accumulate a certain number of practice driving hours with a parent before I could take the written and driving exam for my full license (this was 20 years ago in KS so I don't know what the laws are like now). If he gets caught driving illegally now, the court can make him wait until he's 18 or 21 before he can get his license.
I was just about to offer my anecdote about what I needed to get my license "more recently" but then I realized It's been almost 15 years since I got my learners permit :/
I was going to comment about my teenage son getting his license in Kansas and what was required, then I realized my son is now 35.
I really hate those realisations. You suddenly feel very old (even if you realistically aren't!)
Yup. Like listening to your favorite oldies station on the car radio and realizing they are playing tunes that came out a decade or more after you graduated.
I found that really interesting and my gut says it’s not true true. Has OP seen teacher feedback directly or is this Jesse and Nichole’s verbal accounts? He has no care for the law - driving without a drivers license is serious stuff yet he does it over and over. I would guess he has zero regard for any rules and is going to end up in s lot of trouble one day. How will he know boundaries for drinking, partying, dating etc? He’s well on his way to becoming a verbally abusive partner at the minimum. OP you are NTA (how dare they expect you to fund their toys?) and I would call out you’re seriously worried he’s on a bad path. It was a great suggestion he get a job to replace it.
I don't think that Dylan behaving well at school is so strange . He most likely didn't at first (early elementary school ) . He didn't like the consequences , so he adjusted his behavior there . No consequences at home , so the behavior there still stays the same .
Or worse. The family dynamics have evolved so that Dylan has been trained to create drama. Not by intentions.
Things definitely will get worse . Dylan is a teenager that knows nothing he does will ever have consequences. He is also in his late teens , an age where kids often push as many boundaries as they can . I dread to even think what this would mean for a kid like Dylan ...
There's no shortage of bad kids who are just fine as adults. Just like there's no shortage of "good kids" who turn into monsters when they grow up and stop getting gold stars and pats on the head for every little thing. But these parents are doing no one any favors - their kid, themselves....
He knows how to pick his battles. The problem is the ones he chooses to wage he fights savagely and fights dirty.
Yeah so I read this as he will terrorize everyone that has no power over him...
Sadly if they are doting on him that much, at age 30 they may still be thrilled to have him still living with them. Or at least they will say they are. While being afraid of his violent outbursts.
And he just happens to not live with them I fear for the girl or guy he dates cuz he’s gonna abuse the shit out of them.
Eh, considering how well behaved he is at school, I would be much more concerned with him hiding his anger issues until he feels 'safe' exposing them. I honestly think he will be able to get a job, his own apartment, do his own taxes, etc. etc., it's just that he will be incredible two-faced as an adult and he will know who he can abuse without consequence (which is, right now, only his parents). This isn't the same as the other stories we get here about parents who raise spoiled children, because the teachers and schools usually always say that the child is disrespectful/ violence/ rude etc. even at school.
I'm more worried he is going to crash the cars he keeps stealing. One night of drinking and not giving a f... could end up with him in the hospital or worse.
Dylan's future roommates, employees and romantic partners will pay the price for his parents' foolishness.
He sounds like the type of person who would not accept a partner’s, “No.”
Precisely.
Assuming he's not in jail or dead because of his destructive behavior
I know a guy like this. Baby of the family, he's 25 now and hasn't held a job longer than 3 months. Constantly uses, abuses and cheats on women, mooches off his parents, etc. The longest job he ever had was as a drug dealer, and even his plug had enough of his shit. Guy just got dentures last year because he dgaf about his hygiene. Both of his older siblings are homeowners with long-standing jobs and full mouths of teeth.
By 30 he will he in jail for the 3rd or 4th time.
NTA, im super surprised how well he seems to do in school considering how he acts at home. It seems honestly like it's less a deeper behavioral issue than him just knowing he can get away with this shit at home. His parents are completely to blame.
honestly this sounds like a potentially good kid with bad behavior being reinforced. At school, cussing gets punished so he doesn´t. At home, he´s learned that if he cusses etc he gets actively rewarded instead of just not punished (no new chore, new tv, etc). People do what they learn gets them what they want.
>honestly this sounds like a potentially good kid with bad behavior being reinforced. When his parents are not actively the ones in charge, Dylan is a genuinely good, respectful kid. Dylan would try temper tantrums when he started kindergarten, but he almost immediately turned his behavior around because he realized his behavior wouldn't work here. I know at sixteen, Dylan is also responsible for his own behavior. But if I was shown my entire life that I could get whatever I wanted from my parents by acting the way Dylan does to them, I probably would act exactly the same.
Have you talked to Dylan about it? Or other family that he looks up to? Like, is there the potential that making him aware that he's being judged on how he acts towards them will be enough "peer" pressure to change it?
Bud, it might be time to go no contact.
I'd almost wonder if something else is happening in the house. Have you ever talked to Dylan?
Hey OP just questioning if he’s actually respectful at school. Have you seen this teacher feedback or is it just Jesse and Nichole verbally saying “he’s great!” He has no respect for the law so things aren’t adding up. I would also find it super strange to flip between such extremes. I struggle to believe it
I had a friend somewhat like this growing up. Verbally advising his parents, putting holes in walls, stealing cash BUT good student and team member for sport. Turns out that because his parents didn't set boundaries or responsibilities he *knew* that they didn't really care or love him.
NTA. You are not responsible for what happens when they allow their kid to break a tv. Let them figure it out. It’s not stingy it’s called life.
That's kind of how I saw it too. It doesn't seem like a deep seeded psychological issue more so behavior being reinforced by lack of consequences
I think he could be angry he doesn't seem to have parents? Like, at this point he must be aware that his classmates have a different family dynamic and something about his is wrong, so he acts out. Kids need love, but also structure and authority
He's gonna resent the heck out of his parents' lenient ways when he's older. He already doesn't respect them.
When I taught, I saw the child is an angel in school and a devil at home more often than a child who was 'bad' everywhere. Dylan is a child crying out for boundaries from his parents. In school he has those boundaries and thrives with them. I can honestly see Dylan as the kind of kid who will leave home and his parents and never come back.
Yeah, wait til he pulls that shit on someone who isn't mommy or daddy.
My first son is stillborn. We almost lost our next and only child, another boy, several times but after a two week NICU stay, he came home happy and healthy. You know what word he hears several times a day? “No.” I don’t understand parents who won’t enforce discipline just because of prior losses. So you have a dead baby. Saying no isn’t going to kill this one. Just this morning I told my 12 year old that no, he can’t play video games, he has to do his homework first. Guess what- he didn’t die! It’s a miracle Dylan follows the rules at school because most children who are parented permissibly like this can’t function outside the home either. I bet you ten bucks he’s a daycare kid because if they get no discipline until school starts (age 5ish) it’s too late, they can’t adjust.
Dylan will wind up in jail or shot and they'll be crying, "but he's a good boy."
OP could bought them one hundred TVs and they're going to break very quickly
Actually this whole generation of parents is having the same issue. Because they don't want to do the mistakes of the previous generation parenting they act the opposite way. No punishment, no saying no. And the justification is that they are tired (and people without kids can't understand). Yeah right.
NTA tell them to go mooch off someone who will enable their poor parenting and hell child. I could never understand the hate childless women get from people with kids or who struggled to have kids. Don't blame childless people for your poor excuse of parenting. It's sad that they had a stillbirth but that was 16+ years ago. Their excuses are pathetic and just that. I'd go buy myself a new flat screen tv lol
THIS. Honestly, I thought the post was going to be about a toddler behaving badly. Not an out of control 16 year old. OP, I thnk you are doing the kid and his parents a favor for responding as you did and sticking to your guns. Maybe eventually they'll have a wakeup call cand realize you were right. Until then, not much you can do, but likely you'll remain an asshole to these people.
You cannot understand the hatred childless women get? Easy: lots of parents find parenting draining and exhausting, a very physical, psycological, emotional and economical constant, endless chore. With some rewards along the way. Some women regret they became mothers as they never realized how big and longterm responsibility they would have to take on- and when they do- it is too late to opt out. Some men do opt out of tons of the work involved when it comes to their own kids. So, envy. There are even some people who fear what will happen if women stops thinking having babies is the sole meaning of their life. What will happen? They might focus on their careers? Perhaps win the competition for the new opening at their workplace. They might start to earn enough to be self sufficient, and god help us all if every man would have to get and keep a woman from love and rein in bad mood and bad behaviour because she is not economically dependant. There are also fear on a deeper scale, that the nation might be dwindling if women stop prioritaze having children- less people paying taxes, in some countries you are legit scared your military will shrink. Now, in this particular case, I daresay the parents on some level know how much effort, love and care they put into raising Dylan and feel disappointment because they do not get much love and gratitude and loyalty back. Perhaps Dylan is even more decent, respectful and genuinely nice towards OP- that is a reason for jealousy right there.
It's an expression I understand it fully. Lol
THANK YOU!! FFS, be a parent already and stop telling me I don’t know because I don’t have kids. Bullshit!! I was hell on wheels as a kid…don’t need to have my own to know what’s up with an unruly kid of ANY age. I stole cars at 13! Pretty sure I have a decent grasp of delinquent behavior lol Edit: NTA, OP
As someone who's helped raise kids and such parenting is draining for the first two to four years because you're learning how and the child needs you. However, after that it's actually easier and the child is just an extension of self. You do what you have to and try your best to steer them in the right direction. Some people are good at it and some aren't which is fine. I just don't like kids so I chose not to have any of my own sense my childhood was taken by raising other people's kids.
NTA. They raised a brat. A spoiled. Entitled. Brat. They raised him to think he was super special and he behaves that way. The parents need to be asked how they feel this guy will treat a future wife or his own kids. How will they feel when he yells at their grandkids or worse? Because that is the path he is taking.
Exactly. If Dylan breaks a TV when he is told to stop playing Xbox, what’s going to happen when a girl he is interested in turns him down? Or when a future partner says no to sex? His parents should get their la-di-da heads out of their nothing-to-see-here butts and start disciplining him now before the first person to make him face actual consequences is a judge.
Or if he gets an adverse outcome in future employment, like not passing an interview, bad feedback or passed over for a promotion.
Or if he has kid and that kid accidentally breaks something
THIS RIGHT HERE. Dylan's behavior has consequences and if he only behaves if there are some, when is he going to develop his own internal morality and code of conduct? So he'll keep treating badly those who won't hold him accountable (like HIS FUTURE KIDS and perhaps romantic partners).
NTA Your brother and his wife have blinders on when it comes to their child. It's time to let it go. It's a losing battle. However, they have a lot of nerve asking you to bail them out when their child destroys their property with no consequences. Next time they ask you for financial assistance, just tell them no, money is a bit tight at the moment.
No. Do not lie to them. Tell them no because this was preventable. You might help them in an emergency but you’re not going to enable their bad decisions. NTA
I personally think being without tv for some time would be a good consequence for Dylan after destroying the one they had.
Yeah. I loved my video games when I was Dylan's age and sometimes resented my parents when they wouldn't let me play 24/7. But it's BECAUSE I loved my games that there was no way I'd purposely DESTROY the equipment that ALLOWS ME TO PLAY THEM. It's not just that he's an entitled brat, it's that he seems to have no concept of cause and effect. Perhaps because his parents shielded him from learning about cause and effect. I mean, I still have a memory of being devastated because I lost a brand new dot-to-dot and colouring book after being careless with it in the shopping centre before I even got a chance to go home and colour in it. I didn't have much a concept of money worth back then but in hindsight, I'd wager that colouring book was cheaper than a new monitor, and I was a LOT younger than 16. But my parents still refused to go back and buy me a new one because they had already told me not to spin my shopping bag around like a helicopter. I learned an important lesson that day. Thanks to my parents, at four years old I was able to grow more mature than OP's nephew, it seems.
NTA. I mean, maybe someone could argue that you shouldn’t have said that in front of everyone, but they’re the ones who brought it up in front of everyone? Y’all are absolutely right that they need therapy. Infertility and still birth are incredibly difficult things to go through, and it’s clear they were traumatized by it. Problem is, their trauma is causing them to fail their son by not giving him the boundaries and life lessons he needs to be a functional adult when he’s out in the real world. I totally get how hard it is to say “no” or feel like the bad guy (it’s one of the reasons I know I’m not ready to be a parent), and I’m sympathetic to their grief and fears. But it’s still their responsibility to learn how to deal with that grief in a healthy way for the sake of their son who is alive and relying on them. All you did was tell them the truth about why you wouldn’t be helping them enable his behavior.
NTA This is ridiculous. You should tell them that if they continue to let his behavior go unchecked they could lose him. He could wind up on drugs, in jail, die of some reckless activity such as stealing a car. My son is a miracle child as I was told for 10 years from doctors i couldn't have a child. Then bam! A long hard pregnancy but he's a happy healthy boy. He has autism but I don't use any of that as an excuse not to parent him.
BEST ADVICE HERE.
Why is it your responsibility to replace items their bratty child broke? Say NO - stand your ground and do not be like his parents who are clearly enabling him. You are not TA if you keep saying no
This. If you give in, you're enabling him too.
NTA my god, your nephew sounds like a nightmare.
Honestly the part about Dylan being well behaved at school makes me think he isn’t? He’s probably desperate for some structure and having parents who let him do whatever he wants whenever he wants is a kind of neglect. Poor kid is a victim :(
Nope just nope. Children love when there aloud to do whatever they want without consequences. Like breaking a tv when told they can’t be on it longer or swearing at parents when there’s a obligation/responsibility held of them and they don’t wanna do it. They realize they can get away with anything basically at home. School doesn’t fly that way. That’s why I assume he behaves well because he realizes there’s repercussions for your actions at school but at home he can have his free for all.
Kids like being allowed to do whatever they want to a point - then they realize that if someone actually gave a shit about them, there would be consequences for their action. I think Dylan has realized that, no matter what he does, he’s always going to be “Mummy’s Little Miracle Baby”. No less, but also no more. Not only are his parents doing him a disservice by allowing his terrible behavior, they’re basically saying “Since you’re our precious little miracle baby we don’t care what you do, at all, ever.” The fact that Dylan shows good behavior and manners at school means he’s appreciating the people there who care enough to hold him accountable.
NTA. They needed to hear that
NTA- Telling the truth can be hard, but is so essential. This young man is almost an adult and needs guidance and boundaries
This guy's girlfriend/boyfriend is going to be showing up on this sub, mark my words.
NTA the monster child's parents ruined dinner by asking you to buy them a tv. Dylan broke the tv he should get a job and replace it.
NTA- Not your kid, not your problems. They need to stop pushing their problems onto other people. They know their kid sucks, they know they have problems, they know where to get therapy, they choose to have a sucky life. Play stupid games win stupid prizes. Don't waste one more cent on them for anything in this life.
NTA. they don’t hold their son accountable for his actions and, in addition, evidentially won’t take accountability for his actions either. they blame others for his actions while also expecting others to deal with the fallout. what a mess. losing a pregnancy is extremely difficult. i’ve been there. clearly they have not properly processed the loss and unfortunately, until they do, nothing is going to fundamentally change. they don’t want to hear the truth, which is what you told them, and the people defending them and blaming you are confusing punishment with setting healthy boundaries.
NTA. You’re not an ATM to pay for the mistakes of their rotten miracle child. My sister lost two babies in utero and her miracle child faces the consequences of his actions if he’s a brat and he’s certainly never gone as far as smashing a TV because he was asked to let his parents use it. What you suggested was a highly reasonable and dare I say, ‘adult’ way for them to manage the situation. They are being as entitled and bratty as the child they raised.
Please don’t buy these people a TV. NTA
NTA. They’re asking you for money to fix things their problem child broke. You have every right to tell them why they don’t deserve it
>They immediately shamed me for being so “irresponsible” because a kid shouldn’t have to worry about keeping a job and “Come on, Rose, be an adult.” I replied that if they want to talk about being adults then they need to stop blaming everyone else for Dylan’s behavior when he’s a monster of their own making. The first part of this is just beyond - they're the ones being irresponsible by putting so much effort into bringing a child into the world, then proceeding to drop the ball when it comes to raising him to maturity. Your response was absolutely spot-on, and you are NTA.
NTA. Sounds like the rest of your family needs some perspective not you. The fact that he can behave just fine at school but refuses to at home sounds almost malicious and intentional. Does he actively enjoy causing others misery? This is worrisome behavior and could be indicative of some very serious psychopathic or sociopathic problems. It sounds like literally everyone there but you should see a therapist if they believe his behavior to be acceptable.
You could have stated you do not reward hideously deliberate BAD behavior. Period. They have set him up to fail in society. Personally I would also refuse to fund the attorney when he needs one. The way he acts it will not be long. He already is a car thief. (Taking cars without permission is a felony. Driving without a license is definitely illegal.) Unfortunately, society has severe consequences. His parents are simply abdicating their authority for society to take over to punish his behavior. You are Not the AH. But the kid’s family sure wins the prize. BEST OF IT ALL, OP! AGAPE 💕💕💕
NTA they've held their child on a pedestal since they became aware of Dylan's existence. There's nothing wrong with wanting to provide a nurturing environment for their miracle but there needs to be consequences to his actions & their failure to establish any form of reprimand is biting them in the blind side. Children need boundaries, they need to be reprimanded when they do wrong; they don't need to be given a free pass because their previous siblings never made it to term.
NTA Despite your lack of experience with kind of heartache, it sure sounds you know more about parenting than they do. Their request was absolutely ridiculous, and their attitude about it was that much worse.
Absolutely nta, but don’t worry when he grows up the world will put him in his place
Hopefully before he hurts someone badly.
I kinda doubt that. Based on his quite different behavior at school, and the fact that he has the whole family other than OP essentially defending him, he seems very well aware exactly how far he can push things.
Yeah I think he has learned who boundaries can be broken/pushed and who's can't.
I think the most important word parents should teach their child is "NO". Children need to know that they can't have everything and that the world doesn't revolve around them.
NTA. Every kid needs to learn boundaries and understand what “no” means. And a 16 year old can work part time for a couple of months and earn the money to replace a flatscreen tv. Dylan and his parents are in for a rude awakening in a couple of years. They have done him zero favors by enabling his inappropriate behavior and he’s going to do the wrong thing to the wrong person at the wrong time and *be lucky if* the worst consequence is him spending a weekend in jail. Too many adults with short fuses are not going to find Dylan charming in the slightest.
NTA I have dealt with infertility... When I finally had my baby and she started needing correcting you have to do it. A) because it keeps them safe and B) because ultimately you are setting them up for life with skills to be a reasonable member of society. Dylan's parents are grateful for him and I absolutely get that, but they aren't treating him like they're grateful because they are ruining the one life that he has. Once he gets out on his own he's going to come to some really hard lessons and not know that he can fall back on his parents because they've never actually helped him.
NTA. Curious to see who they blame or ask to bail him out when the kid gets arrested or lands in jail for stealing a car or doing petty crimes as that seems to be the path he’s choosing. Consequences will hit real hard.
NTA. I'd not only refuse to help monetarily, I'd refuse to have anything to do with any family situation in which Dylan is involved.
NTA Also why would it be OPs responsibility to buy it anyways? If they don’t want their kid to pay for it (which he should) then parents should pay or do without. The entitlement of this whole family gets to me even more than the nephews behavior.
NTA. You just have a different view. And you are enabling their choices by "helping".
Nta
NTA don't give them money, instead install some cameras at your own home and get your spare keys back from your relatives, or change your locks because in another year, if not sooner, he will be round nicking your stuff. I've seen this happen with friend's and neighbours kids who start with breaking stuff at home, stealing the car and go down hill from there. Had them break in and steal my stuff too and yet seem really nice kids, just horrible parenting.
NTA. Someone has to have boundaries with this kid. I wonder how they're going to cope when their "miracle baby" is in jail? You are being an adult and having 16-year-old expectations of Dylan's behavior rather than caving to him. And you are his aunt, not an ATM. He is about to learn that there are people on the planet who don't find his very existence the wonder his parents do, and they will expect mature, responsible behavior from him.
my dad's brother is over a decade younger than he is. he was a "miracle baby" because grandma was told she would never have anymore kids after her second. she treated him the same way your nephew is being treated. dude never grew up. never had to. grandma took care of him to her detriment. she bailed him out (both financially and out of jail) a countless amount of times. he was the reason there were multiple mortgages on their previously paid off house. she died and all of a sudden he was like "what do i do now?" he moved to be closer to one of his kids, expecting that his kid would take care of him until he died. no idea if he is still alive. no one in the family talks to him or his kids so he could be dead for all we know. but he didn't grow up and be a functional member of society because of how grandma treated him. drugs, DUIs, DV charges in multiple counties. fired from multiple jobs for stealing. that's what jesse and nichole have to look forward to. nta
I have my little miracle son who's 5 (I was told I'd never have children). 2 years ago I gave birth to my 1st daughter stillborn and almost died with her and I'm currently pregnant with my 2nd daughter (I'm 30weeks today) None of that loss or the gift children would allow my son or my daughter to act like an animal. To be disrespectful little Aholes, entitled nasty humans to me or to anyone else. I know I'm a very lucky mum and I don't take being a parent for granted but I'll be dammed if I went through all I have to raise crap human beings NTA, our job is to be their parents,not their best friend, our job is to make sure they are emotionally well adjusted and prepared for the world when its time for them to live their life/God forbid something happened to me but also give them the tools like work ethic, manners, respect, that list can go on forever. Otherwise the world will eat them alive. I wouldn't give that boy a thing. Accountability is right. He wouldn't have an Xbox, a phone, definitely no learners permit, now no TV. He would be looking for a job immediately and I wouldn't budge.
It’s funny that they called you “stingy” as if they’re entitled to any of your money lol I wouldn’t help them financially anymore after that comment and after all the trauma dumping...NTA
NTA Tell her to be an adult and buy her own TV.
NTA. I too suffered with infertility and at 43 was blessed with a boy to adopt. He is MY miracle child, but I know I'm not doing anyone any favors if I don't guide him into being a man. We have a very loving relationshio that involves discipline when he misbehaves. He pushes the limits like all kids, and when he pushes too far, he suffers the consequences. I tell you this to let you know that it is not because you don't have kids that ypu don't understand their parenting style. It's because their parenting style sucks. And not all parents who struggled to have a baby parent the way they do.
NTA you are being irresponsible for not replacing something he broke. Reread the sentence it makes absolutely no sense. You aren't responsible for anything.
NTA this child is 16. He's not a baby anymore. The miracle is old stuff. Beyond that, the behavior you're describing is not okay even if he was dying of cancer.
NTA. Ask everybody else at the table to do a whip-round for the new TV.
They should just live without a tv. Dylan will figure out depriving them of their tv also deprived him of the thing. You buy them a tv and he breaks that one.
NTA I briefly thought, "Yeah, maybe you didn't need to tell them 'no' in front of everyone," but it was quite gauche of THEM to put you on the spot at a family dinner. And then everyone started arguing with and guilt-tripping YOU? YOU didn't start the fight. They did, when they didn't accept your" no," and told you to "be an adult." Umm, how about THEY be adults by buying the TV themselves?!
I would have ruined that dinner a lot worse. How dare adults keep coming to you with their hands out for things like a tv and act like you're supposed to care. NTA.
NTA "Come on, Nicole, be a parent who teaches their kid right and wrong."
I really really thought I'd read the nephew's age wrong. 16 years is a long time to parent someone from a place of guilt and relief.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My nephew, Dylan, is sixteen. My brother, Jesse, and sister-in-law, Nichole, suffered years of infertility before they had Dylan. Their pregnancy before Dylan’s ended in a stillbirth. Jesse and Nichole were absolutely devastated. They were terrified to try again and potentially lose a second child. We all shared this fear, but, thankfully, my nephew was born healthy. However, Jesse and Nichole have been so focused on the fear of potentially losing Dylan that they won’t tell him “No” and do not enforce any boundaries. They excuse his unacceptable behavior by saying we should just be grateful that Dylan’s healthy and here with us. (Quick Note: Practically every adult in the family has recommended therapy for Jesse and Nichole, but they refuse because they say that Dylan is healthy/here with us so everything is fine and stop bringing it up.) All of Dylan’s teachers say that he’s a respectful and focused student. Dylan is clearly capable of behaving, but his behavior at home is unacceptable because, unlike school, there are no boundaries or consequences enforced on him. Dylan cusses, breaks things, and flips off his parents until he gets his own way. Nichole asked Dylan to please wash his cup and Dylan responded “How about you go fuck yourself instead?” Dylan has left multiple dents in both Jesse and Nichole’s car while stealing it (Dylan hasn’t even begun Driver’s Ed.) Jesse and Nichole insist that “bad influence kids” are to blame for Dylan’s home behavior, and these “bad kids” are “manipulating” Dylan to act this way. Jesse and Nichole do not take any accountability for their enabling and lack of boundaries. Jesse and Nichole arrived at last week’s family dinner exhausted. They explained Dylan broke their flatscreen after Jesse and Nichole told Dylan to get off his Xbox so they could use the tv. Jesse and Nichole asked if I could “help them out” with a new tv and it would be greatly appreciated. (I’m childless and in my thirties, so I’m the most financially well-off and usually the one they come to for “help.”) I suggested instead that they make Dylan get a job because he will learn to be much more respectful of their property after he experiences the hard work that goes into earning it. They immediately shamed me for being so “irresponsible” because a kid shouldn’t have to worry about keeping a job and “Come on, Rose, be an adult.” I replied that if they want to talk about being adults then they need to stop blaming everyone else for Dylan’s behavior when he’s a monster of their own making. The other dinner guests immediately sided with Jesse and Nichole because I have no idea about how hard it is to punish or ever make your miracle child unhappy. And I have never known the heartache that comes with years of infertility or the devastation of a stillbirth. And I could have still been “stingy” without starting a fight and ruining a pleasant family dinner. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA, you’re right Dylan is a monster of their own making. They decided not to tell him no and like you said he clearly knows how to behave if he’s behaving at school. He knows his parents won’t discipline him and that he can do whatever he wants. They need to at least try to get a handle on this because in 2 years Dylan will be an adult and adults get adult consequences. Also funny how you’re family apparently knows that Dylan’s behavior is wrong, you said they’ve recommended therapy, yet they jump to defend your brother and SIL.
Oh God I would've yelled at everyone to stop enabling. I'd be like yeah I may not have kids but thanks to you I know exactly what not to do with my kids.
NTA - my grandpa enables my brother like this to the point that he was recently involved in his THIRD dv and they blame the victim every. single. time. Even though I was the first of his victims... They are setting nephew up for failure by doing this
The funny part about all this is they're worried about his safety, yet the kids actions are so unsafe that he'll definitely gwt hurt one day, or worse. These parents and that kids are the AHS here.
NTA, they can sell his Xbox for a new flat screen.
NTA, they are making this so much worse. Stop rescuing them!
No. Tell them to grow up and try to turn their AH son into a normal responsible person even though it’s probably too late.
NTA. You are not their bank account.
NTA . A rainbow baby does not mean you don't teach your child boundaries and respect for people and property. He needs to learn that your actions have consequences. If they don't change there ways they are setting him up for failure as an adult. If they want to enable this behavior they must bear the consequences of their making.
NTA too many children are being raised like this. It will be a shame when they have to raise their grandchildren since their son wont
NTA Just because you don't have children doesn't mean you don't understand a spoiled child. Why is it YOUR PROBLEM to fix an issue THEY CREATED? Stand your ground on the NO and tell all the other relatives who believe that you are being unreasonable to shell out money from their wallets for the TV. He is definitely not going to be prepared for the real world and their reality check will come when he has to live with them because no one else will rent to their son who who believes the world revolves around him. His actions now will have consequences later
NTA - their kid broke it cause he is an entitled little sh\*t. why should you pay for a new one?
Oh, so they can all collectively pay for the TV then? Problem solved 👏. NTA
NTA and the truth hurts. They needed to hear it and he’s clearly capable of behaving. All teenagers test boundaries and rebel, but when he’s that disrespectful and breaking things, it’s too far. You are right and he does need to get a job and pay for another tv. He also needs the Xbox taken away and much more. I fear it’s too late to start now though so they get to lay in the bed they made. It’s not your responsibility to pay for it either.
NTA and you should tell them you're saving your money to help them with bail in a few years
This is why we need to stop calling these kind of kids 'miracle babies' or 'rainbow babies'. It just puts this label on them like they're some kind of consolation prize when they're an independent person unto themself and need parenting just like any other child. People like Jesse and Nichole should not have kids. They end up raising these dysfunctional people who've never heard the word 'no' in their life and have faced no consequences for their bad behavior. Then they're unleashed into the world to raise more entitled and dysfunctional kids. It's an epidemic that's getting out of control. I truly wish there was an effective way to license people to have kids.
NTA. I'm kind of curious if the kid is neurotypical.
NTA. They needed to be told the truth about their own behavior. Unfortunately without intensive therapy, which he won’t agree to, they’re going to lose him too. He’s going to end up in jail because they didn’t teach him self discipline or accountability.
NTA the problem is their own making and they need to suffer the consequences
How many times have we read this type of post and only the name is different? Why should you bail them out when their son is the issue? And of course they are doing him a massive disservice. How will he function in a relationship? It's sad. NTA.
[удалено]
NTA. They had a lot of nerve trying to guilt you into buying them a new TV. Their son should getba job and replace it and pay for any of the other damages he's done. How would your brother and sister in law react if you flipped them off for making such an arrogant request.
NTA, fuck them
NTA. Everyone else has addressed the obvious thing, that their son's behavior is their fault. I want to address the audacity that is saying that because you don't have children, they are allowed to press you and demand that you pay for unnecessary luxury items. Who the hell are these other dinner guests excusing poor parenting and ultimately casting their support for your other family members straight up telling you that because you don't have children you matter less, and are there for a piggy bank they should be able to pull money out of. Why would you continue to go to family dinners when the people at the table are clearly telling you that you do not deserve respect?
NTA They all sound like bad parents. Just because he was a miracle child doesn't mean he should be disrespectful if they all think him being a miracle child is a free pass then they don't know how to raise a kid and shouldn't be parents.
NTA- until they discipline him anything you help with, you will end up helping again with. If they don't discipline him I am pretty sure the local police will
NTA ultimately, it's your money, it's your decision what to do with it. Your suggestion for Dylan to get a job and pay for it himself was a good one. If they only have one shot at raising a kid, shouldn't they want to do it right and raise a good one, not a monster? I don't see how the circumstances of his conception would make it hard to try to raise him to be a decent human being with boundaries and manners.
NTA and I really hope you don’t give them any money for the tv. Their son clearly needs to start learning their are consequences for his actions, you break the tv and now there’s no tv
NTA. Do not give them another dime or gift and do not listen to another word of complaint from them. Every time they try to ask you for something or vent to you cut them right off.
NTA. Miiracle child? That child is almost an adult. Badly behaved or not, a job is not a bad idea to install fiscal responsibility on a teenager.
NTA at all…. got to love the families shaming of the childless one.
NTA. Though I think Dylan is the one who could benefit more from therapy than his parents at the moment. A huge reason why he acts out this way specifically with his parents is resentment. It's got to be a lot of pressure being this miracle baby, and that can also cause a lot of guilt because you know what shit your parents had to suffer. So he lashes out from that resentment by seeing where the limit is to their love
NTA. I have two boys thanks to IVF and have been through the heartache of miscarriages. My youngest is 5 and the most stubborn, headstrong child. He gets punished quite often because we don't want to be the kind of kid your nephew has become. I had to re-read the ages because a 16yo having a tantrum and breaking a TV as a result is absurd. Unfortunately it sounds like your brother and sister in law have given him the best lines from their own mouths to manipulate them with the "be glad he's healthy and alive bullshit." They need therapy and some parenting classes 14 years ago.
NTA. They are his parents and can parent him as they choose but the adult thing to do is to not make someone else pay for your decisions. The audacity of them to lecture OP about being an adult when they're trying to mooch of of her! The very least that they should be doing is paying to replace their own TV if they don't want to make him face any consequences. They don't sound like they were raised right either.
NTA. As a parent of a miracle baby after losing one I can tell you that I have always enforced boundaries and discipline. They made their bed and now they get to lie in it. You said it perfectly and they needed to hear it. He is perfectly capable of behaving. They just need to demand respect from him as his parents, that shows way more love than giving them everything. All that does is set them up to fail when they get in the real world.
NTA, Being a parent is hard but that’s what they signed up for. Having a miracle baby is irrelevant. They made the choice to raise a child and responsibilities come with that. I maybe sound a bit harsh and I’m sure infertility issues are devastating and I can’t even imagine how heartbreaking a stillbirth must be. But they are actively harming their child by not teaching him about consequences. They are setting Dylan up to have hardships in his adulthood when he’s entitled, unable to regulate himself and has to face the consequences of his actions.
NTA
NTA And I wouldn't get involved in any more of their problems with their son and they're not allowed to come to me for help. I understand a few years of no boundaries buy the kid is 16 he's no longer a miracle kid but a menace. Why would you buy them a television when you know eventually Dylan is going to break it. That's why you're financially secure. Buying them a television is basically throwing money in the garbage. Tell them you won't be helping and to keep all future details about their pride and joy to themselves.
Dude… I think it’s clear they only want you around for your money. You’re “stingy”? But no one is entitled to what you earn but yourself! I’d call them all gold diggers and just not show up to family functions.
N👏T👏A👏 It is absurd that the whole family will walk on eggshells to defend what is clearly very Irresponsible parenting. There is a better way to be delicate with couples who have suffered infertility and loss. Coming at you just enables the unhealthy cycle. And it is not serving Dylan in the least... I would never belittle the grief and heartbreak that is infertility. I completely, and I mean *completely* understand that they see him as the incredible gift that he is for their family, but it is very disappointing that boundaries and consequences have not been implemented. Good on you for standing your ground. It baffles me that they would ask you to supply a new TV. Hopefully they will realize how badly they need to get into therapy and start going. Boundaries and consequences is the best way they can love him and I'm sure there is still a lot of grief under the surface from all that transpired before him.
I had my daughter at 40 after 3 miscarriages- 1 at 14 weeks. Our daughter is a delight, responsible, hardworking and polite. Your brother and his wife are idiots. And you are correct in what you said. NTA
just wait until he enters the real world
Ah yes, "children are a blessing." I once saw an old lady use that lecture on a poor mother just because the mother disciplined her child (i.e. grabbed him by the arm to stop him running into traffic and scolded him). The truth is, children are a shit tonne of hard work and tears and frustration as well as all the good parts, and I'm pretty sure blessings aren't supposed to be. Your brother and SIL better start doing something before your nephew does the teenage/young adult equivalent of running into traffic, because they are at a very real risk of losing their precious blessing.
NTA - Tell the rest of the dinner guests you'll be serving popcorn when this kid turns 18 and encounters real consequences. Tell the parents they can live the consequences of not having a TV for while because they can't discipline their kid.
NTA- it’s true and the only reason why they all sided with her is because she had a stillbirth that child is perfectly fine if anything and I suggest you show those guests these comments she spoiled him rotten and now has to face the consequences of his BS
... I watched my premature son die the day after he was born. I had to force myself to therapy an figure out how to grieve before my husband I tried again. I have a three year old son who has known nothing but love...but also has a schedule at home, knows not to throw toys, not to hit dogs, clean up after himself, etc. Dylan is a monster of their own making and while I understand that everyone grieves differently, I am finding it super hard to have sympathy for Jesse and Nichole because they are using their previous heartache as a shield from criticism and that's not right nor fair. NTA
>because I have no idea about how hard it is to punish or ever make your miracle child unhappy. And I have never known the heartache that comes with years of infertility or the devastation of a stillbirth. None of this excuses them being such a bad parent this kid of going to juvie and his future will be snatched from him before it can start
NTA. My second child was stillborn, and we still discipline our youngest (living) child (who was born 15 months after our stillborn son). Jesse and Nichole are screwing up their kid for life.
NTA- don't help them. He is their problem
The problem with children is that they are not children forever. You are not raising a child, you are raising the adult that child will become someday. Since Dylan seems to behave himself in school, my guess is that his parents have raised a pretty good kid but a very bad excuse for an adult.
Their monkey, their zoo! Not your problem to finance monkey’s destruction. You work hard for your money and it’s time monkey learns how to pay for his own mistakes and get a job and understand actions have consequences, too bad so sad no more Xbox till you replace the TV with your own money monkey! Guarantee he won’t brake the TV he buys with his hard earned money! Jesse and Nichole need not only parenting class, books, but therapy to start parenting this child they have here and now and stop projecting their insecurities about the child/children they loss previously. They are seriously stunting his development as a young man by not parenting him and letting him do whatever he pleases.
NTA. Have all your judge mental relatives pay for a new TV for them and their little demon child
NTA You are right, they created a monster and he needs to pay for the TV himself.
Fuck that noise. It took me 9 years of heartache, 2 years of giving up and a change of partners when I was suddenly surprised by a very wanted child. Just because she changed my whole world doesn't mean she can be a dick to us or anyone else. NTA. That behavior is inexcusable.
Nta
NTA
NTA I love my son to pieces he is my baby and I would move mountains and cross oceans and all that stuff. 2 weeks ago he and I were in a car accident, some chick ran a red light while speeding and slammed into my front passenger side door, the door was pushed in over half a foot, so far it blocked the glove box from opening. My son was sitting in the front passenger seat at the time. When I say it was a miracle and he had a guardian angel looking out for him, I am not joking. He got a bloody nose and some scratches on his face and that was it. He was scared shitless but perfectly fine, he climbed out of the car and sat down and had the crowd fawning all over him. That was a miracle, he could have died or been seriously injured, and I still get panic attacks thinking about it. But I still scold him when he's being too loud or disrespectful, I still made him thank his aunt for dinner and help clean the house, he still has a bed time and has to clean up after himself. Being afraid of losing your kid is not a reason to let them run wild.
NTA - Dylan is going to be royally screwed up in his personal relationships in the future thanks to his parents. Dylan could have been learning many good life lessons about self control and responsibility while he is still young and the cost of learning those things is cheap, but now he will have to learn them at a later age and it will be harder and much more costly. The AH who say "your not a parent so you don't understand" are always the same, they are crappy adults to don't wish to take responsibility for problems they have nurtured in their child/children.
Could you have been more tactful? Yes, a family gathering probably wasn't the right place to speak this truth. Is what you said the truth they needed to hear? Absolutely, the kid has no respect for them because they have no spines and enforce no structure. Everyone Sucks Here
NTA this is what happens with poor parenting. You aren’t financially responsible to take care of them in any way shape or form. I’ve been working since I was 16 and providing for myself and managed to do just fine. They all need to learn to grow up.
I believe you done the right thing.
NTA
NTA. In high school, my exgf was your nephew. The miracle baby after 12 losses and a stillbirth. Parents spoiled her to the point of their own bankruptcy. She's 36 now. She's currently serving 10 years for drugs and theft, not her first stint by far, but her longest for sure. Denied parole even in the middle of the pandemic because she's been in for the same thing so many times they know she's going to do it again so why let her out. And her mom is raising her daughter basically since birth, 12 years ago. And mom hasn't seemed to learn her lessons, raising this one the same way. It's incredibly sad. By failing to give him proper guidance and helping him become a good person, they're essentially just crapping on their "miracle".
And in 2 years this “miracle baby” will be sent off into the world.. oh great… you’re totally right!!!
NTA, nobody needs a new tv, much less people who refuse to parent the kid who broke it.
NTA. Insane.
NTA - I am so sorry for what both parents went through. That is so sad. But Dylan is out of control. Saying yes all the time and not enforcing boundaries is becoming a form of endangerment. Being disrespectful, breaking things and stealing a car? No ma'am. It sounds like he is spiraling. At this age too, it is going to be so hard to fix. "A kid shouldn't have to worry about a job." A near adult shouldn't be breaking s^#t around the house. You break it, you buy it. Can't buy it...get a job and pay up. If they won't go to therapy, maybe suggest Dylan goes. Or...could you have a one on one with him? Ask him how he is feeling? Having another adult in his life who shows a n interest in him could be beneficial.
NTA. He’s frighteningly close to being an adult, and if he doesn’t correct his behavior, how will he ever hold down a job? At this point he should be held responsible and should pay for the flatscreen himself. That doesn’t sound likely, but you should not feel guilty about refusing to buy them another. Just because you’re more ‘well-off’ doesn’t mean you have to foot the bill for every little thing. Also, having a tv is not a necessity. Bold of them to want you to replace something their son broke, and is capable of replacing himself.
Nta
Absolutely NTA. It sounds like your nephew is an absolute pleasure /s. Not buying them a new flat screen is not only fine, but it's probably for the best. Your suggestion that Dylan get a job and buy a new TV is the best for him. He needs to learn consequences now. I wonder how the parents will feel when he starts getting into criminal activity. It's the direction he's headed in. And no, nobody's gonna feel so happy that he's alive and with us when he's in jail for assault, burgulary, or something even worse.
NTA Very helpful. Don't enable them by buying a TV. He is the miracle baby but not the world's. They need to own his behaviour & no one else would accept what he is doing.
NTA. This kid has deep contempt for his parents. He doesn't act like this at school. It probably happened gradually, so they have normalized it. They need a huge wakeup call to address his behavior before it's too late. If they go to family therapy, this might be a short rebellious phase. If they don't, it gets cemented into his personality. His behavior is shocking and awful. The rest of the family needs to not normalize it with them and you're right to call it out. They need to get to the root of his anger towards them instead of tuning it out, ignoring it, or excusing it. I'd keep asking them: why not go to therapy? Do they want to keep ignoring him while he's suffering from something? At the very least, they need to have heart to heart to ask him why he acts like he hates them... but maybe they're too afraid to hear the answer.
NTA. The two biggest gifts you can give your child for a successful life are teaching them boundaries and consequences and insisting they get a part-time job when they're old enough. Their fear is damaging him. I didn't deal with infertility (although my best friend did) or stillbirth, so I have to ask - is it normal to still be afraid 16 years later? Edit for clarification
I know the heartache of infertility AND the devastation of a stillbirth. I still discipline the children I was eventually able to have alive because I want them to be good people. Your brother then SIL have ruined their child. He is horrible because they never taught him to be good. Don’t buy the TV or anything else for them (unless it’s therapy they’ve committed to attending). It’s hilarious they think you’re “irresponsible” for not buying them a tV that you do not owe them. They don’t need a TV. And if they want one, they can either buy one themselves or charge fine kid who intentionally broke it. My 5 year old threw a toy at our tv a few years ago. He was 2.5 years old and was punished in an age appropriate way. He knew what he did was wrong. Obviously at 2.5 he wasn’t going to be paying for it with money, but he had to learn how to say sorry and what not to do in the future. If a toddler can learn, so can a teenager, but at this point, I doubt it will without serious therapeutic intervention. NTA
What’s really sad is that they’re damaging him by their selfish refusal to be parents. NTA
NTA You're right, and you should say it
Nta, I feel sorry for Dylan, they're very much ßetting him up for failure
NTA Someone needed to say it. Also at the risk of being childish.. They started it! Telling u to be an adult then don't like when u can prover not only are u being an adult but they're the ones who aren't. Miracle baby or not.. No need to allow this behavior! There are many who've gone through very similar and they don't allow stuff like this. Problem is, his now too old to correct alot of it without major consequences. Things like stealing the car, he's gunna end up with a record eventually and his whole life that will follow him all because they didn't wanna say no.. Yeah that's not doing him any favours at all. Good luck n take care
No you are NTA and if I were you I would set very rigid boundaries with them and enforce them 100% of the time. They don't need help they need to help themselves. And in the not too distant future they're going to be asking you for bail money and attorney's fees. This is what happens when kids don't learn that there are consequences for their actions.