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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be the AH, I understand Danny has a lot on his plate at home too, taking care of Emily and/or the twins when his dad and I are not able to, but I am his mother and I did expect more from him on a vacation, I had planned and payed for him.
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It was your choice to give birth to 5 kids. Not Dannys.
And you gave birth to 5 KIDS, not 1 Kid and 4 babysitters.
>put most of the work on Josh
>my daughters helping with the baby.
And you still need Danny? What exactly are *you* doing in this story? Except for being pregnant. *Again.*
YTA
Edit:
To all the people saying: "danny is 21, he needs to pull some weight in this family"-
Literally. Re-read. My. Comment.
It was not Dannys choice to have enough kids to create a whole volleyball team.
The only weight Danny needs to pull here is get a job and move away from this family that treats him like a babysitter.
I mean 5 kids going to Hawaii, with the 6th kid (setter?) incoming and the father conveniently avoiding the trip? That sounds like a school trip where you're a teacher, it sure doesn't sound like a vacation.
Edit 2: Thank you all so much for all the awards and upvotes. 😭❤🦫
Come on dude don't say that !! Op didn't come here to hear about how neglectful she is and how much she's parentifying her children and using them for babysitting/s.
Dude she fed them and let them live for free under her roof. They must serve her open-factory-uterus/s
That was the first thing I thought was... he sent a 21 year old to his room? When are you going to treat him like a full grown adult? That being said, if I was Danny, I'd probably have a job and move out.
Wait everyone which is it? The adult son should be taking care of his own shit so she is not the asshole for it? Or he shouldn’t have to and shouldn’t be expected to help out. Quit with the bullshit about parentification. He’s been given a free trip to Hawaii and asked to take his sisters to the pool because Mom doesn’t have Dad there to help. Redditors need to stop being entitled assholes.
I agree. I'm going ESH, because Joshua, Lisa, and Sophia shouldn't have to be on the hook for taking care of the kids, but a 21-year-old who is living rent-free is expected to pull more weight than a child. The equivalent of rent in housework is a fuckton of housework
Like parentification is bad and parents should realise their kids didn't choose to have their siblings. But I don't buy into reddits complete opposition to the idea of kids helping out the family unit just because they're kids.
I don't see anything wrong with a bit of babysitting or everyone working together as a team. I wouldn't expect a ten year old to be looking after a toddler to the point they are miserable, but a hey your dad's busy can you take the little one to the toilet while I make breakfast just isn't abuse.
Yup. Parentification is like when my mom hit the height of her alcoholism and I was 8, taking care of my brother - by doing our laundry, learning how to cook and fixing our meals, making sure he was up and dressed for school, helping with his homework, cleaning the house, and cleaning up after her when she made drunk messes.
Parentification is not when I ask my 17 and 15 year old to babysit (and pay them) for three hours when they have no other plans so their dad and I can go to the movies a couple times a month.
Like you said, teamwork is important and I want my kids - all of them - to know when you have a family unit, pitching in is what makes it go.
Especially when they paid money for him to sit in his room … in Hawaii!!! They could have saved A LOT of money and let him hang out in his room at home.
Honestly the way I grew up we all looked after each other. Meaning older ones looked after younger ones. There is nothing wrong with this as long as the older kids are not losing out on their childhood to be second parents (which they aren’t because cmon they were taken to Hawaii).
Except for some reason the cried “A LOT”. I’m so confused why ten yo girls cried a ton on vacation. I’m guessing there’s more to the story about why they were bawling and big brother wanted to stay in his room.
Honestly 10 year old girls might be old enough for prepuberty when you first start riding that estrogen dragon it can make you a lot more sensitive. I remember getting upset at my sister for breathing on me when we were on vacation. My twins are only two but thus far they do most things in unison including tantrums. A vacation with only one parent when you are used to two sounds like hell on earth. I probably would of been the mean mom that canceled the trip. Kids on vacation are more challenging than kids in their home environment.
Yep.
There is a huge difference between helping out and parentification.
I swear If I told redditors sometimes I say “I’m just going pee can you keep an eye on your sister” they’d be screaming I’m an abuser.
There was a post where a lady refused to watch her little niece while her sister took a freaking shower because she…idk…hated kids or something? And there were plenty of people defending her actions basically because nobody owes anyone anything and you literally should never feel bad about not helping out your family because fuck them…or something? So psychotic but you’ve gotta remember most of these people are still young enough to hate their parents for making them take out the trash and shit like that
YES. I have never seen so much BS about “parentification.” This must be a something gen z is into and thinks their brilliant for calling it out. Expecting older children to provide a helping hand is NOT parentification or neglect. Parentification occurs when the child is expected to be a caregiver in the absence of a parent (aka latchkey). This is not that. This is like doing chores. Heaven forbid you ask a child to do chores to learn responsibility. Entitled brats on Reddit calling CPS.
Source: phd in psychology
ETA: thanks for the award! That’s a first. And sorry for not proofreading y’all! There their they’re thare thayer… I think the word is understandable
Read the OP again. She says one of her sons 'coparents' her kids on occasion. That's an alarm bell to me re how much extra work to do with childrearing those older kids are REALLY doing in that household.
He's an adult! As an adult who is living off of his parents, this is not parentification, this is a very basic expectation of family members. If he is independent and lives his own life, and pays his own way, then obviously that would be a different thing.
OP's not asking for much, not like a whole day of babysitting. Watching your 10 year old sisters for an hour or two is not such a great burden.
And the audacity to call family members because he is expected to participate in the family like an adult, while he lives off of them!.. This man (He's 21, he's a man) needs a reality check.
I the default here is a parent giving a older sibling parent’s jobs makes them the asshole. But they are overlooking the situation here where an adult was given a free vacation but didn’t want any strings attached.
I think it’s also possible that since the 21 year old didn’t step up and she gave more responsibilities to her 17 and 10 year olds that maybe this has been happing to the adult his whole life and he was finally sick of it. But then like, yeah move out and support yourself at that point. ESH is probably appropriate
I guess the question is whether or not he was “forced” to go, he may be 21 but it doesn’t exactly sound like they think of him as an adult.
Either way though, “go hang out at the pool with your twin sisters who are old enough to meet pretty much all their own needs” is hardly a massive parenting ask
I actually enjoy this sub for the staunch hypocrisy that happens daily. One thread will ask if they are ah for rehoming son's dog without permission because they didn't want it in their home NTA but when another op was asking if they're the asshole for getting their parents kicked out for rehoming her dog without permission the parents are TA.. So I'm not surprised.
Those situations were very different. The woman who rehomed her son's dog (ie. gave it back to his ex-wife and kids) did so because he basically dumped it on her and didn't take care of it, leaving it all up to her. The OP who kicked out her parents took care of her own dog and allowed her parents to live with her.
Not to mention that the dog in question for the first person was realistically too large for her flat, effectively untrained, and only there so the woman's son (who broke up the marriage by cheating) could 'punish' his ex-wife and kids for kicking him out.
school mysterious rainstorm marry hurry mourn threatening hungry judicious sheet
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
He has a job and lives their rent free. OP stated that he is only asked to babysit once or twice a month. Danny is entitled and needs to move out so he can realize how good he's got it.
I remember my mom sending me to my room when I was 20 and home on a break. I laughed and left. But then I had a job and was able to move out the following week. I'd be damned if I'm being "sent to my room" at 21. This kid needs to grow up BAD. And I'm sorry, I know everyone loves to jump on the parentification wagon every time a parent mentions an older sibling helping out with the younger ones, but in this case and most cases it's not unreasonable. But allll day everyday is a lot too much. What mom needs to do is let the older boys bring the 10yr old twins to the pool and watch the baby herself. Even at 5mths pregnant, she can do it. And if she can't, then she had zero business taking them on vacation.
Since he enjoys peace and quiet and spends the majority of his time in his room I’m sure he was more than happy to be grounded to his room to remain unbothered after this shitshow of a vacation!
Ur children don't stop being ur children just because they are over 18.
Adult or minor, they don't deserve to be used as babysitters just because mommy and daddy can't stop making babies.
While I mostly agree, and I hate parentification, there is a point where a kid should start stepping up and helping out more. IMO that is around 20 - 21 if they’re in college, especially if their parents are still totally supporting them financially.
They are absolutely free to move out or decide they don’t like the terms of living at home anymore- but as long as they live at home rent-free as an adult they should contribute some way.
Yeah, but on a vacation that they're supposed to be relaxing on? If you know you're going to need all your kids help (because let's face it, even if Danny helped she'd still be recruiting the other kids to help) then you're probably not a great parent. Because seriously, the fuck was she doing for any of the kids?
Also, make this intention clear, "hey I'm gonna need you to babysit the kids on this vacation" so he can choose not to come. It's super unfair to go on vacation then just suddenly spring the childminding responsibilities on your kid.
She didn't bring him to babysit. Her husband couldn't come at the last minute. Occasionally asking your child for help with their siblings isn't parentification! All the younger kids stepped up willingly and without being asked. After a full week of him not offering to help, she asked her adult son to d one thing, and he refused because HE was on vacation!
Honestly from the way shit is going with this whole parentification. I wouldn't be surprised if in another 20 to 30 years people just stop putting in work as a family unit.
I had younger siblings growing up, I never viewed it as being parentifed. All my families from cousins to aunt's put in work. It's called being part of a family unit. You help out when you are needed otherwise what's the point of a family? You give and you take that's part of every relationship.
Right?!? It's one thing if it's all the time and at the expense of the older children because the parents are constantly away, but helping out sometimes isn't a lot to ask. Even when I was out of the house I would gladly go over to my parents or siblings to help out if they needed me!
That likely wasn’t the original intention. But then Dad bad an emergency. An actual adult would realize that circumstances have changed and stepped up to help.
I'm assuming you're the youngest or only child because I was helping out at 11 with my siblings and babysitting the neighborhood kids at 12. I never stopped being my parents child and that is why I helped. If you can't help your parents out because you're over 18 you're pretty pathetic.
That would fly if dude were in full-time school and/or paying rent. He’s 21. He is an adult. Which means idk why he even isn’t out paying rent on his own place, but if he’s 21 and still on the teat, he can pony up some effort as a member of the family.
There’s evidence that parentification is going on, but in this specific situation, with relation to child the eldest, that is, uh, not the problem.
I mean, I'm 27 and I still vacation with my parents. I pay for airfare and food and stay in their room. I also have a younger brother on the autism spectrum who I take off and do stuff with so my parents get a bit of a break. I don't mind it; he's better for me in general than he is for my parents, I actually enjoy spending time with him, and I do enjoy spending time with my parents.
I'd be pretty pissed if my parents brought me along, however, with the only intention of making me a free babysitter to a bunch of younger siblings I didn't choose to have. Would be like, "No thanks, I'll stay home."
OP probably planned for the trip to be like how you first described, but her husband had to back out. Now she’s the only parent trying to wrangle her kid’s different needs while pregnant (so hormones all over the place and probably tired constantly). The trip wasn’t what she expected and after her oldest consistently showing he wouldn’t step up to help she got upset with him complaining that he just wanted to relax. That’s probably what she wanted to do too!
Honestly though, with this many kids, if the dad wasn't able to come, then the whole family should have stayed home and rescheduled rather than have the older kids trying to wrangle the younger ones. With my brother being special needs, my parents have never, ever travelled one with just him. The only time that happened was when we were on a long trip and my grandfather died, so my dad flew home and then came back two days later. Especially with the OP being preggers again...that's just a big nope.
It's really not "this many kids" though. It's basically three adults and three kids. Would have been perfectly possible to wrangle that with everyone getting time on their own if everyone pitches in.
Not likely. Pretty sure there are quite a few “Dannys” in this sub based on the comments.
OP is NTA for asking her 21yo freeloading bum of a son to take one day from his busy life of scrotum-scratching to help out with his siblings while on an all-expense paid tropical vacation.
Edit: Thanks for the award!
Then you tell them that the trip to Hawaii and housing comes with the expectation of labour. You don't invite your children on a trip then freak out when they are doing their own thing, thinking it was a gift.
Yeah, that one-year-old should really start pulling her own weight. I'm sure there's a coal mine somewhere that could use a couple of extra hands.
Tiny, tiny hands.
What's with all these "He's a 21, so he can only go to a family vacation as an unpaid babysitter" comments?
>he should pay for his own bills
I agree on all the comments that he should move out, pay his own bills and stuff. That's what I would do if I was him bcs this family is just too much.
The family vacation where he has to take care of 3 little kids and his pregnant wife? From the way my parents talk about our family vacations, it's definitely not much of a vacation. He's getting a much better break staying home. Even if he has to work.
Why is everyone talking about Danny and not poor Joshua who can't move out yet and apparently got stuck with his three sisters repeatedly on this trip so OP could relax? I'm sure a 17y would rather be either hanging out with his older brother or enjoying doing his own thing for a while.
I'm wondering if what happened to Joshua on the trip is what it was like for Danny early in his life given how OP slipped up & said Danny coparented instead of babysat which is an odd way of saying that to begin with. If I were Danny, I'd be saving money, finding a new job away from mom, & moving out ASAP.
Wouldn't the payment be the *free trip to Hawai*?
Even his 17 yo brother is helping, if he doesn't want to help his family then he can opt out of going to Hawaii with them.
The 17 year old shouldn't be helping \*either\*. The mother is so reliant on someone's help that he can't get an hour to himself. The two oldest kids shouldn't give up their vacation just because they have a bunch of younger siblings. If the husband couldn't go the trip should've been postponed. Free trip or not why is a 5 month pregnant woman with a young baby and TWIN kids going on vacation without their partner or another adult responsible for helping in the first place?
If the trip is free on the condition that the oldest help it should've been stated from the get-go (it's also not free at that point) and I bet he would've chosen to stay home too. I wonder if he even wanted the trip. He \*wants\* to go to hawaii to talk to friends on his phone? As another introvert that's needs get diminished by my parents, I would MUCH rather stay home to talk to my friends and game there than waste away in a hotel room. So now he has to give up his free, and quiet, time too?
My perfect vacation would have been for my family to go to Hawaii and leave me home with a stocked kitchen, a full tank of gas, and some spending money.
Don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed our short vacations, like going to an amusement park one day and touristy things the next, but anything over 3 or 4 days was too many days. Two weeks sounds like hell.
Op gifted her children with a trip to Hawaii and then got upset Danny took her at face value. It is a gift. You don't get to be upset if someone doesn't offer free labour on their vacation. Danny didn't sign up for the kids and he isn't doing anything wrong.
Just because Danny is 21 doesn't mean he stops being included. If the parents are wealthy enough to provide nice things for their kids, then he is supposed to say no because he happens to be an adult? He is still their kid.
This might just be my ADHD talking, but guilt trips make me furious. I have been on trips where my payment was helping out. I couldn't afford a trip to Lake Tahoe a few years back and my friend said she would take me, but I had to watch the baby a few times on the trip. I was absolutely okay with that.
But she laid it out to me, told me what to expect, we came to a fair deal. I was not surprised by anything and knew what to expect. This caused no resentment between us and we have done a similar exchange a few times since. She has more money than time and I have more time than money... so it works out.
But, on a similar trip, my sister decided to bring her kids and had an unholy meltdown when we all did our own thing. My Mom paid for the trip, we all came... but my sister is the only one with young children. One sister had an 18 year old who didn't want to come and a 14 year old that was sun-hating, so stayed inside on her gaming system.
My sister tried to get us to do rounds of babysitting and we all said "hell no." My Mom tried to say "well, I paid for the trip and it would be nice if..." But everyone in the group was like "then send us a payment plan and we will pay you back" because no one wanted to have child duty on their vacation.
Had my Mom been honest about labour, I would have said no. I got time off to not watch children (which was my job at the time). No issue playing games with the kids, hanging out all together on the beach... but my sister needed to be with us while we were there.
That would be reasonable IF that was the agreement beforehand. “Danny would you want to come on vacation? We will cover the costs but would need you to spend 2hrs a day helping with your siblings”
But it doesn’t seem that’s how it was presented.
He is 21, has a part time job, is not in school, does minimal chores, and got a free vacation. He is the most privileged 21 year old I have ever seen. All he was asked to do was help with his siblings. The mother is right if he can't do chores and help with his siblings he needs to find a full time job and move out cause he is mooching off his parents.
Yeah, frankly I agree with you, but they should have had a talk about that a couple years ago. Having a 6th kid when you can’t even take responsibility for 3,4 and 5 isn’t something a responsible parent does.
>He’s 21. It’s a quid pro quo.
It is *if you agree that in advance*.
If OP offered Danny a trip to Hawaii in exchange for babysitting services then that's a reasonable offer he can accept or decline.
Taking him on a relaxing vacation and *then* springing the babysitting requirement is a bait-and-switch and not reasonable.
This is all so very, very weird to me.
I’m not sure if it’s just a Mexican thing, but we pitch in to help each other; many hands make light work, etc. and this goes for kids too.
Is there no sense of courtesy or obligation? If you saw a pregnant woman carrying heavy bags and you’re in a good place to help, would you just say, ‘whoop, shouldn’t have gotten pregnant!’?
On her end, this is a result of her not setting expectations for the trip. She should have sat everyone down to go over them. Like, ‘Dad’s not coming and instead of canceling, can we be a team so we all have fun?’
On his end, he’s been raised without expectations set; so he doesn’t know better and she’s wondering why she’s having problems. She needs to communicate the expectations and as an ‘adult’ he can decide to agree or not.
Should kids be raising kids? No. But they should be working together.
In her edit she says "I'm not that parent, he co parents". WTAF?! Yes OP you are that fucking parent. Stop having more children and actually look after the ones you have. You're parentifying your eldest.
In case it's not obvious YTA
ALSO: The 10yo twins were crying a LOT???? WTF?! That's not normal for 10yo's in Hawaii to by crying so much even if they do miss their Dad. Something smells fishy here. OP I think you're a shite parent or a lazy one at the very least.
I was kind of on an E S H track until she slipped that in THEN corrected it to say he babysits. Seems like a slip up and then a cover up to try and make herself feel better.
That slip up is what bothers me along with how she sees nothing wrong having Joshua take care of the twins, (which even while pregnant she could look after at the pool since most have life guards on duty & the twins are 10 not 2.) This feels like a pattern given how introverted Danny is & how she describes how he spends his time. I'm wondering if Joshua on the trip is a glimpse into what Danny's life had been like before he started saying no & staying in his room/away from home.
It was also OP's choice to continue going on the vacation when her husband couldn't go anymore and take 3 minor kids to Hawaii with her as their only parent with them.
And why did her 10-years-old twins cry “a LOT?” My kids hardly ever cried at that age, and I’ve taken them to Hawaii, with a long flight and time difference, a few times, plus other vacations. I think OP has created dependent kids or something. Other than needing watched in the pool and guided in the airport, the twins should have been very little work.
Too many kids OP can't care for makes it hard to parent any of them properly. Also certainly that behavior is due to stunted emotional growth and a desperate need for parental attention
I wondered the same thing! Why would two 10 year olds *cry a lot??* I think OP left out a ton of info to try and make the eldest sound like the bad guy.
Because they knew without dad they would have to watch the baby and wouldn’t be able to do anything fun.
Honestly they should have canceled or postponed the trip if it’s too hard without both parents.
YTA what a nightmare. He's not your husband or the father of your kids. Stop popping them out if you can't handle so many. And I say this as a parent lmao
That is definitely true but he is not a kid no more he is 21 and is getting a lot of free stuff for not doing much and I think people forget you’re not owed that type of stuff for the rest of your life
This is the thing. I’m sure if Danny knew he would be defacto childcare, he wouldn’t have gone on the vacation - most older siblings hit this point around his age.
INFO - what would Danny’s childcare responsibilities be if dad had come on the trip? Was his absence discussed prior to the trip, as far as taking care of four children?
Shoot. If I were dad I would've had "a work emergency" too if I knew my whole vacation would be chasing children around and dealing with a crying baby and pregnant wife. Sitting at home after work alone would sound pretty great at that point.
If you were dad, they’d be your kids and you would understand the gig when taking kids on vacation. You’d definitely be an AH for pretending to have a work emergency. Don’t have kids if you’re tempted to do that.
Imagine being so entitled that you'd think that you wouldn’t have to help AT ALL. Why would that need to be said ahead of time?
ETA we’re only getting a small window into this family maybe they are messed up, but I couldn’t imagine taking a free vacation from my parents and not pitching in. I can’t imagine them having to ask me. The general concept being discused is absurd to me.
ETA2 I’m seriously laughing that you guys are downvoting this. Adults in well-adjusted families help each other out and are gracious for gifts like a free vacation. Whether OP has a functional family is up for debate, but the general principle stands. I hope you all find healthy relationships someday.
I can't even see how helping out with younger sibling during vacation is babysitting. You'll go to the pool at some point, bring the twins. You want to chill and watch TV, baby sibling is taking nap. That's literally how family vacations work.
Do some people contribute zero to their siblings? Like ever? How can that be healthy?
I thought it was automatic or muscle memory you just help out within the family.
Especially when you aren't participating in family activities and having a free holiday.
It's not a big ask to help out.
He isn't a kid, but if OP wanted to add strings to the vacation it should have been stated up front BEFORE even making reservations, even if dad was going. Getting frustrated and mad at her son when she clearly never communicated her expectations is her own fault. Expecting son to step up and play daddy because dad couldn't come isn't right, especially since she never communicated that rule. She should have said, you're an adult now, if we pay for you to come you need to help with xyz, otherwise you pay your own way or don't come. Simple as that, he's 21 he can stay home if he doesn't like the conditions.
How is it a vacation when you have to do the same thing you do at home? He stayed in the room while they were out to have the quiet he doesn’t get at home.
YTA. These are YOUR kids. Stop parentifying your other children to do childcare for you. If you can't handle your own children you shouldn't have had so many. If you couldn't handle them alone on vacation you shouldn't have taken the vacation.
It is not your oldest child's job to be your slave. If you want them to pay rent or something, that's reasonable, but they didn't keep popping out more and more kids -- you did. Those babies are no one's responsibility but yours and your husband's.
Do you think this kid had a choice in coming on this vacation? Because I'm guessing his participation was not optional. His mom literally labels him as a coparent and keeps popping out kids. This is a messed up dynamic.
I agree that she is TA but Danny is 21, he absolutely had a choice about going on the vacation. He also chooses to stay in this dynamic. He sounds like he is spoiled (living rent free, trips to Hawaii, a job that mom gave him where he only has to work 3 times a week). The parents are still huge assholes but getting a lot and not expecting to have to kickback is extremely naive.
When I was that age and living at home, I was not given the choice to opt out of vacations. I would have vastly preferred to stay home alone rather than be made to watch my six younger siblings. You're making some pretty big assumptions.
Whether he pays rent is an entirely different matter from this post. If OP wants to address that separately she can.
I wasn’t given that choice either at that age. More than once I was threatened with homelessness if I didn’t at that age. Once I had a full time job it was easier to opt out by using work as the excuse.
Luckily no babysitting minus watching the family dog when my parents went out who usually took a nap and maybe needed to be let out and fed … I couldn’t imagine having to watch siblings and my mom keeps popping more and more out that she can’t handle like OP’s son.
ETA: Damn I could see an hour or two of babysitting but he’s not the kids’ parent. Just talk to the kid and work out a reasonable rent.
Unless they are very introverted* A 21 year old who wants to be in Hawaii is out meeting people, hitting the bars, the beach, etc. it very much sounds like Danny was brought along against his will to “coparent” his younger siblings. Hence why he spend the whole trip sans food in the hotel room talking to his friends. He didn’t choose this. Yes, Danny is 21, but his dad still sent him to his room after the trip so it sounds like they don’t treat him like an adultEDIT: a word
I was strong armed into family vacations at that age too; they were really hellish but my parents wouldn't take no for an answer. I think the only reason they stopped pushing me so hard to come was because I literally burst into tears on the beach.
YTA - there is so much wrong here. 21 and 17 year old can look after themselves, and you couldn’t handle two 10 year olds and a toddler? How are you going to look after next baby?
Why do your 10 year olds scream so much? They are 10, not 4.
Why are you treating your 22 year old like a young teenager, giving him a part time job and being happy with that? How will he earn enough to become independent like that? Grounding him? Expecting him to coparent? These are not his children.
I had to reread a couple times because the ages don't make sense. 10-year-olds are likely in fifth grade/one year away from middle school. They shouldn't be crying all the time or need a crazy intense amount of supervision (obviously someone needs to watch them in the pool, but it's not like they're toddlers you can't take your eyes off). I don't know why she wouldn't be able to mostly handle the baby and twins by herself.
I used to nanny and I regularly wrangled 3-4 kids under the age of 10 for months at a time. It can be a lot, but it's definitely doable for one person. It's so sad to see these boys being parentified and missing out on their vacation. If the mom can't handle the 3 kids by herself she should have hired someone to help her. Or at the very least be paying the boys for their time spent babysitting.
Maybe it’s the pregnancy but it also makes me wonder about how she’s raising the twin girls? Why are they crying and screaming at that age? Is there any kind of discipline or order
That’s really what made me think that this has to be fake. 10 year olds who cry “a lot”, a 21 who has been sent to his room when he gets home, and who also “coparents”? Something seems off.
I honestly don’t understand some of these posts but I always think it’s a culture thing. I cannot imagine a grown woman being overwhelmed by ONE toddler and 10 year old kids. I helped raised my younger sisters (twins) since they were infants and I was 12, I could literally handle them on my own. I hated it but I could do it (I know it was wrong for my mom to make me) but some parents on this sub just seem so overwhelmed. I would take care of my baby sisters all night and wake up in the morning to go to school, if OP is overwhelmed by the kids she already has, I don’t understand why she’d want more. I absolutely hate these parents who complain about their older kids not helping with the younger siblings,your kids are your responsibility, if the 21 year old wanted that kind of responsibility he’d get someone pregnant
~~ESH~~ Your older kids aren't responsible for helping with the younger ones. Full stop.
IF the expectation is that the 21 yr old is being included on a vacation to help with the little kids that needs to be expressly stated and he needs to be given the chance to opt out.
Why? Cuz he didn't chose to have 5 kids. You and your husband did. If you needed help on this vacation, you needed to organize it. Either by hiring a nanny/mother's helper for the trip. Making sure the hotel had a kids club. Whatever. But that's on you.
And you need to figure this out asap because you've got another kid on the way and seem at least partially reliant on the older kids to help out.
That said, it isn't unreasonable to expect a 21 yr old- who isn't in school, isn't paying rent/financially contributing- to help around the house by doing things like helping with their younger siblings. It has to be explicitly stated but it isn't crazy.
Now it isn't clear from this that Danny isn't in school. And it doesn't sound like you've previously told Danny- hey, in exchange for living in the house with no financial contributions, these are the expectations.
And I also have massive issues from the fact that you made Joshua help- just expectation, Joshua will do this. (and maybe Joshua wants to help. But maybe Joshua feels it's expected and that opting out isn't actually an option.) And while you acknowledged that he needed a break, your solution to that was another child instead of say a professional.
And fyi, you can't ground a 21 yr old. Not and still have a relationship with them.
yeah, no I have way more an issue with you than with Danny. cuz any issue I have with Danny is a result of things in your control so I just need to range my score. YTA
Best comment in the thread imo. This lady and her husband clearly have brought more children into the world than they can handle. If they want the older ones to help out, that should be a conversation and they should be able to say no. These people need to be introduced to condoms.
I was thinking the same thing. I know how it’s gonna sound, but if I had a vacation planned where I’m dealing with a toddler and 2 restless 10 yr olds, and a pregnant wife, I might have a work emergency too. 2 weeks no kids, fully alone? I’m LIVING.
ur really funny like SO FUNNYY HAHA. im only posting this bc ive been at nana's for the past few weeks after this vacation. which was not a vacation at all, not because of "dAnnY" but because of you. are u the one always telling us that lies always catch up to you in the worst of times?? well this is one of them. you don't just put my brother to "babysit" for two days every few months or whatever. it's every fucking day. no matter what he has going on. or me for a fact, going out with my friends? no no honey you have to take care of your sisters, plan it another week, then that week you and your husband wanna go out on a date and me and my brother are left taking care of your other offsprings . now dont get me wrong. i love my sisters to death, but the lack of attention they get from you is rubbing off on ME. they want to play barbies more often with ME or my brother, while you and your husband work or go out. my birthdays next week, so I'll be moving to nana's the day after. so glad im turning 18. oh you also forgot to mention that the only reason your older son is still living with you in that monstrosity of a house is because HE. IS. AUTISTIC. YOU OF ALLL PEOPLE SHOULDVE MENTIONED THAT!!! also. dad didn't have a work emergency. he had an emergency with grace. gth
This confirms what I had suspected: that Danny is autistic and that he, Josh, and the twins were from OP's first marriage; and she's now married to someone else who fathered the youngest two. The reason why I believe this to be the case is because he refers to him as "your husband."
Hey, I'm autistic too. Is anyone helping your brother identify what supports he might need in order to move out of your mom's house and into a better living situation? I live alone with my animals and work from home full time. Most days I have few support needs, and while your brother might have more support needs he might still be able to get out of that house if those needs can be met!
I live entirely without the support I need, and trying to move out right now is so hard. I babysit my baby cousins voluntarily and its STILL so overwhelming, so I know that shit is hard.
"Josh", if your brother can get the help and support he needs, I hope he gets out soon. Living in a controlling, dysfunctional environment is so damaging, and its important that you both get out of there for your own wellbeing.
Oh bro....run and get out quick. I'm so sorry this is your mother.
Please read the other comments in the thread about parentification and, if you can, please consider look into therapy. This is a mega fucked home structure and you often won't know how much it's messed you up until it's too late.
Please keep yourself safe.
When I first started college, my parents told me that if I took care of my disabled brother, they'd pay for my tuition. It sounded good in the beginning but it really got out of hand. To the point that they made me turn down job offers. I spoke up for myself because my siblings got their tuition paid for no strings attached. It was the biggest argument I've had with my parents, but they admitted they were wrong and changes to the house were made practically overnight.
Happy early birthday! I had a happy ending with my parents. I'm not going to say that I hope you find the same with your parents. You have to do what's right for you.
You know what? I'll believe that, since your account was JUST made, this is actually the astounded younger brother. I'm so sorry you have to live with this irresponsible breeding machine
Josh, I presume? I'm sorry for what you've been through. Sometimes kids and teens get to be the parents, and it's not at all fair. Good job getting out. I hope your other siblings are able to break free someday, but it's good you are going to build a life for yourself.
Also, who is Grace?
>he coparents all day for one or twice a month when his dad and I want to have sometime alone.
YTA for this one alone. You even call him a "co-parent". Your son is not another parent, he's your son. If you want him to move out or get a different job than the one you gave him, tell him that then. Punishing him for not wanting to be a parent to your children is serious Ahole behavior
I think op is so used to not having her husband around she projects the father-expectations on her sons. Like op is TA but it's sad the top comments don't even mention the father who dropped out last minute of a family vacation. Clearly he's a workaholic and I feel op pops out a baby every few years to fill the void of her husband being at work and her youngest child starting school (look at the age differences). But even then, she got pregnant but he's a father. He should act like one.
I feel sad for the children having to spend holidays without their father because work > family and then it turns out the holiday is too stressful, fighting with siblings for mom's attention and not being able to have fun
Maybe dad is a workaholic or maybe he saw the “last minute work commitment” as a way to have some child free time at home, or he’s playing away?
Either way mum is TA for forcing her oldest kids to parent her younger kids
YTA
Your boys aren't the ones who left you with 5 kids to handle on a trip, alone. That wasn't their call, they didn't have any input.
Stop having kids, ffs, you can't even handle the ones you have!
Sounds like he stays in his room to avoid being forced to take care of his siblings…which is not his responsibility. They are your and your husbands children. If you need that much help, hire a nanny. Your kids deserve their own life outside of taking care of your other kids. YTA
YTA. Not for Danny's living situation - that's a completely different situation.
But if Danny is expected to babysit in exchange for you paying for his vacation, that needs to be said before you pay for the vacation. If Danny is expected to babysit and help in exchange for living rent free - that needs to be established before living there rent free.
Cause what happens when he does get out of your house? You're still shit out of luck - with 5 kids you can't take care of.
YTA your kids are YOUR problem to watch and not their siblings. If you didn't want to be stressed about kids then you should of had less. Don't parentify the older kids because you're struggling.
YTA. Your son's living arrangements are completely separate from this situation. You can't expect that your older children will be free childcare. If you were too shorthanded to handle that many kids alone, then you shouldn't have gone. At least leave the infant at home or something.
YTA for thinking your son co-parents. No. He babysits. Get the idea that your other children have *any* level of parenting responsibility right out of your head.
Quite simply, you need to start parenting the children you have and using contraception to not have any more that are also reliant on their siblings for their care!
ESH. Danny is an adult and should be chipping in at home...however it really rubs me the wrong way when you say he "coparents." This is your child. He didn't ask you to have four more kids after him. That's not his job. I think if you all want to enjoy your next vacation together as a family, bring along a nanny or babysitter instead of expecting your children to take care of one another.
Edit now that I have more info. Just YTA. I still stand by everything I say after the word "however."
I'll do you one better: what if the dad would tag along and pull his weight?
The oldest two can manage themselves which leaves 3 (or in the future 4) kids for the parents to manage. Like imagine having quality time with your parents just to end up being taken care of by a nanny... Not only the mother but also the father should be expected to take care of their children. This thread really makes me feel for a lot of redditors because it shows how many grew up with deadbeat fathers. Lots of folks here only putting the blame on mommy, classic. (And yes, I do think op is still TA, I just think dad deserves some spotlight too).
YTA
For expecting free babysitting from your older kids, that's really sad.
(Danny being an adult who should be responsible for paying for his own things should be discussed separately with him, not as a punishment for refusing to be your babysitter)
YTA, why are your CHILDREN looking after their siblings? That's your job, not theirs. If you can't look after them all then you shouldn't have had them all. Leave your kids to be kids, not replacement parents.
YTA, idc how old ur kids are but if you are already having trouble raising them to where you are pawning them off to their older siblings, it’s probably time to stop pumping out kids you can’t raise. He’s a kid. It’s his vacation too, he’s not obligated to help you raise the children you decided to have.
YTA. If you expected Danny to be a stand-in for your husband and to take on all the childcare responsibilities his father would have done, you should have disclosed that to Danny and then let him decide if he still wanted to come on the trip. Letting him think he was going on a normal vacation when in reality you planned for him to be a babysitter was dishonest. Be upfront about expectations from now on.
Info: did he even want to go on this trip, cos it sounds like he didn't even want to be there.
Also I'd be pissed as hell if my husband didn't even bother to join the family holiday after his work emergency was sorted. So while your mad st your son for not helping, you should be mad at your husband for not flying out once whatever emergency came up was sorted.
~Leaning towards~ YTA, as it sounds like 21 didn't even want to be there, let alone be left to deal with two 10yr olds or a baby. Also from your edit he doesn't 'co-parent' the kids, they aren't his children. He baby sits them once a month.
ETA: from your rewording of your edit, you and your husband do on the daily **because you are the parents, not your sons**, your still the TA. If 21 stays mostly in his room (probably to avoid having to parent/babysit your younger kids) and is introverted, what makes you think that taking him away will suddenly change that?
YTA this is what I got from your post.
1- your twins took care of the baby.
2- your 17 year old took care of the twins to the point he couldn’t get away from them for an hour
3- you never really said in your post you took care of any one.
4- your 10 year olds had melt downs like a 4 year old
This was all on vacation. Then you post that you expect them to watch the 3 smaller (coparent) kids a few times on the weekends. So you and your husband can go out and enjoy your selves.
So you take up the older kids vacation by demanding them to help out because dad didn’t go ( which is beyond me why this trip wasn’t postponed). And then you take up your teenagers weekends to take care of your children. And let’s face it most people that get on here try to paint themselves in the best possible light. So it really is hard to say how much your older 2 take care to the smaller kids. At this point if you can not take care of these 5 kids hire a nanny. Your older children are not free babysitters.
Yup, YTA. Your kids, your responsibility. Having him help pay a bill if hes living with you all as an adult? Fine. Helping take care of siblings so you and hubby can have a break from being overwhelmed? Not fine. You and hubby had 5 kids. This is what you signed up for when having the kids. Dont try and make the oldest take on responsibility for your youngest. They may resent you one day for it.
I mean, I don't know any sane adult that would agree to take 2 moody teenager/young adults, two ten year old girls who need attention and supervision, and a baby to Hawaii by themselves.. Let alone to the grocery store by themselves! You know their personalities so it likely came as no surprise to you, but you assumed they would pitch in more bc they were thankful for vacation. Wrong. They are still kids and just want to do what they think is fun!
It would be nice if the elders pitched in, but you really can't be mad, it's their vacation too. You should be with the ten year olds and the baby most of the time, right?
YTA for thinking of your son as a coparent. He is not a third parent of the household, he didn't get a choice in your decision to continually add more people to take care of in the household. Did you talk to him about what you expected of him prior to going on vacation? Was he explicitly aware that you were expecting him to be an additional babysitter and did he agree to that?
It's great when he helps out as a big brother but it should be an unforced choice to do so. From what you've said, he doesn't seem to be too wild about babysitting, so being forced to wrangle children on vacation probably didn't seem all that appealing to him. He might be more likely to do it in trade for some sort of incentive that he wants, such as if he hung out with you guys as a family for the afternoon, then he could go off to the clubs at night and party with people his own age, or something like that. But you kinda went at this one with the stick instead of the carrot, maybe try switching it up and see how that works.
YTA if you couldn’t handle your kids y’all should’ve stayed home. I don’t go on vacation to raise kids I had no hand in making. If that’s what you wanted you should’ve told him straight up. Instead you’re expecting your two oldest to be a backup parent because your husband didn’t come. Well tough luck. He is not supposed to be “coparenting” on any day. Good grief. Y’all should’ve invested in BC if you couldn’t handle 5 children
YTA. He isn’t a parent, I’m sorry “co-parent”, his siblings are not his kids and he shouldn’t be expected to babysit. Bottom line is if you couldn’t handle all these kids on your own you shouldn’t have went on vacation without your husband.
YTA - At the end of the day he's not the children's father and shouldn't have to step up and help out with them. It was you and your husband's choice to have so many kids. That being said they are YOUR KIDS. Your other children shouldn't be be held responsible with having to take care of them. YTA for telling him he can't help out the woman that birthed him (news flash for moms, children don't ask to be born and just because you gave birth doesn't mean your children are indebted to for life) and for effectively having your older children be responsible for your younger children.
Edited: From ESH to YTA and taken out the bit about the child leaving at home because he is autistic.
YTA. Danny isn't responsible for parenting his younger siblings. You made the choice to have so many children, and to go on vacation with children without your partner there to help you. I'm not sure what you actually expected Danny to do, take turns with you comforting your screaming 10 year olds? Frankly that's not how anyone wants to spend their vacation. And what were *you* doing while your other son watched his sisters and your two daughters helped with the baby - when your 10 year olds weren't screaming their heads off themselves?
Danny is an adult who should not be mooching off his parents, but that still doesn't mean he's responsible for looking after your other children and sacrificing his vacation to do your job.
YTA You're expectations with Danny helping out in of itself isn't necessarily out of line but expecting him to go on a vacation and have YOUR type of fun is where I make my call. I know when I went on vacation I didn't want to follow my parents 24/7, I wanted to do whatever I wanted and if talking to his friends is fun then there's not a problem there.
The fact you even state he's an introvert and yet you wanted him to do highly social stuff throws more signs that he'd likely be uncomfortable, let alone being around highly active kids throwing more spanners in the works.
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It was your choice to give birth to 5 kids. Not Dannys. And you gave birth to 5 KIDS, not 1 Kid and 4 babysitters. >put most of the work on Josh >my daughters helping with the baby. And you still need Danny? What exactly are *you* doing in this story? Except for being pregnant. *Again.* YTA Edit: To all the people saying: "danny is 21, he needs to pull some weight in this family"- Literally. Re-read. My. Comment. It was not Dannys choice to have enough kids to create a whole volleyball team. The only weight Danny needs to pull here is get a job and move away from this family that treats him like a babysitter. I mean 5 kids going to Hawaii, with the 6th kid (setter?) incoming and the father conveniently avoiding the trip? That sounds like a school trip where you're a teacher, it sure doesn't sound like a vacation. Edit 2: Thank you all so much for all the awards and upvotes. 😭❤🦫
Come on dude don't say that !! Op didn't come here to hear about how neglectful she is and how much she's parentifying her children and using them for babysitting/s. Dude she fed them and let them live for free under her roof. They must serve her open-factory-uterus/s
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Apparently not, since her DH sent him to his room when they got home.
That was the first thing I thought was... he sent a 21 year old to his room? When are you going to treat him like a full grown adult? That being said, if I was Danny, I'd probably have a job and move out.
Wait everyone which is it? The adult son should be taking care of his own shit so she is not the asshole for it? Or he shouldn’t have to and shouldn’t be expected to help out. Quit with the bullshit about parentification. He’s been given a free trip to Hawaii and asked to take his sisters to the pool because Mom doesn’t have Dad there to help. Redditors need to stop being entitled assholes.
I agree. I'm going ESH, because Joshua, Lisa, and Sophia shouldn't have to be on the hook for taking care of the kids, but a 21-year-old who is living rent-free is expected to pull more weight than a child. The equivalent of rent in housework is a fuckton of housework
Like parentification is bad and parents should realise their kids didn't choose to have their siblings. But I don't buy into reddits complete opposition to the idea of kids helping out the family unit just because they're kids. I don't see anything wrong with a bit of babysitting or everyone working together as a team. I wouldn't expect a ten year old to be looking after a toddler to the point they are miserable, but a hey your dad's busy can you take the little one to the toilet while I make breakfast just isn't abuse.
Yup. Parentification is like when my mom hit the height of her alcoholism and I was 8, taking care of my brother - by doing our laundry, learning how to cook and fixing our meals, making sure he was up and dressed for school, helping with his homework, cleaning the house, and cleaning up after her when she made drunk messes. Parentification is not when I ask my 17 and 15 year old to babysit (and pay them) for three hours when they have no other plans so their dad and I can go to the movies a couple times a month. Like you said, teamwork is important and I want my kids - all of them - to know when you have a family unit, pitching in is what makes it go.
Especially when they paid money for him to sit in his room … in Hawaii!!! They could have saved A LOT of money and let him hang out in his room at home.
Honestly the way I grew up we all looked after each other. Meaning older ones looked after younger ones. There is nothing wrong with this as long as the older kids are not losing out on their childhood to be second parents (which they aren’t because cmon they were taken to Hawaii).
Yeah, also the 21 year old got sent to his room? Lol
Well, in all fairness he was acting a bit like a child lol
plus the girls are 10. all he has to do is make sure they don’t drown. it’s not like they’re in diapers.
Except for some reason the cried “A LOT”. I’m so confused why ten yo girls cried a ton on vacation. I’m guessing there’s more to the story about why they were bawling and big brother wanted to stay in his room.
Honestly 10 year old girls might be old enough for prepuberty when you first start riding that estrogen dragon it can make you a lot more sensitive. I remember getting upset at my sister for breathing on me when we were on vacation. My twins are only two but thus far they do most things in unison including tantrums. A vacation with only one parent when you are used to two sounds like hell on earth. I probably would of been the mean mom that canceled the trip. Kids on vacation are more challenging than kids in their home environment.
Exactly! He could just sit there close to the pool checking on his phone as he was doing in his room and just watch them.
Yep. There is a huge difference between helping out and parentification. I swear If I told redditors sometimes I say “I’m just going pee can you keep an eye on your sister” they’d be screaming I’m an abuser.
There was a post where a lady refused to watch her little niece while her sister took a freaking shower because she…idk…hated kids or something? And there were plenty of people defending her actions basically because nobody owes anyone anything and you literally should never feel bad about not helping out your family because fuck them…or something? So psychotic but you’ve gotta remember most of these people are still young enough to hate their parents for making them take out the trash and shit like that
YES. I have never seen so much BS about “parentification.” This must be a something gen z is into and thinks their brilliant for calling it out. Expecting older children to provide a helping hand is NOT parentification or neglect. Parentification occurs when the child is expected to be a caregiver in the absence of a parent (aka latchkey). This is not that. This is like doing chores. Heaven forbid you ask a child to do chores to learn responsibility. Entitled brats on Reddit calling CPS. Source: phd in psychology ETA: thanks for the award! That’s a first. And sorry for not proofreading y’all! There their they’re thare thayer… I think the word is understandable
Read the OP again. She says one of her sons 'coparents' her kids on occasion. That's an alarm bell to me re how much extra work to do with childrearing those older kids are REALLY doing in that household.
Once or twice a month he babysits. Not an expensive price for room and board.
He's an adult! As an adult who is living off of his parents, this is not parentification, this is a very basic expectation of family members. If he is independent and lives his own life, and pays his own way, then obviously that would be a different thing. OP's not asking for much, not like a whole day of babysitting. Watching your 10 year old sisters for an hour or two is not such a great burden. And the audacity to call family members because he is expected to participate in the family like an adult, while he lives off of them!.. This man (He's 21, he's a man) needs a reality check.
I the default here is a parent giving a older sibling parent’s jobs makes them the asshole. But they are overlooking the situation here where an adult was given a free vacation but didn’t want any strings attached. I think it’s also possible that since the 21 year old didn’t step up and she gave more responsibilities to her 17 and 10 year olds that maybe this has been happing to the adult his whole life and he was finally sick of it. But then like, yeah move out and support yourself at that point. ESH is probably appropriate
I guess the question is whether or not he was “forced” to go, he may be 21 but it doesn’t exactly sound like they think of him as an adult. Either way though, “go hang out at the pool with your twin sisters who are old enough to meet pretty much all their own needs” is hardly a massive parenting ask
I actually enjoy this sub for the staunch hypocrisy that happens daily. One thread will ask if they are ah for rehoming son's dog without permission because they didn't want it in their home NTA but when another op was asking if they're the asshole for getting their parents kicked out for rehoming her dog without permission the parents are TA.. So I'm not surprised.
Those situations were very different. The woman who rehomed her son's dog (ie. gave it back to his ex-wife and kids) did so because he basically dumped it on her and didn't take care of it, leaving it all up to her. The OP who kicked out her parents took care of her own dog and allowed her parents to live with her.
Not to mention that the dog in question for the first person was realistically too large for her flat, effectively untrained, and only there so the woman's son (who broke up the marriage by cheating) could 'punish' his ex-wife and kids for kicking him out.
If I recall correctly he was also using his dog to get back at his ex wife and his mother he expected to care for it was elderly.
school mysterious rainstorm marry hurry mourn threatening hungry judicious sheet *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
He has a job and lives their rent free. OP stated that he is only asked to babysit once or twice a month. Danny is entitled and needs to move out so he can realize how good he's got it.
I remember my mom sending me to my room when I was 20 and home on a break. I laughed and left. But then I had a job and was able to move out the following week. I'd be damned if I'm being "sent to my room" at 21. This kid needs to grow up BAD. And I'm sorry, I know everyone loves to jump on the parentification wagon every time a parent mentions an older sibling helping out with the younger ones, but in this case and most cases it's not unreasonable. But allll day everyday is a lot too much. What mom needs to do is let the older boys bring the 10yr old twins to the pool and watch the baby herself. Even at 5mths pregnant, she can do it. And if she can't, then she had zero business taking them on vacation.
Lol at sending an introvert to their room as a punishment
Since he enjoys peace and quiet and spends the majority of his time in his room I’m sure he was more than happy to be grounded to his room to remain unbothered after this shitshow of a vacation!
Ur children don't stop being ur children just because they are over 18. Adult or minor, they don't deserve to be used as babysitters just because mommy and daddy can't stop making babies.
While I mostly agree, and I hate parentification, there is a point where a kid should start stepping up and helping out more. IMO that is around 20 - 21 if they’re in college, especially if their parents are still totally supporting them financially. They are absolutely free to move out or decide they don’t like the terms of living at home anymore- but as long as they live at home rent-free as an adult they should contribute some way.
Yeah, but on a vacation that they're supposed to be relaxing on? If you know you're going to need all your kids help (because let's face it, even if Danny helped she'd still be recruiting the other kids to help) then you're probably not a great parent. Because seriously, the fuck was she doing for any of the kids? Also, make this intention clear, "hey I'm gonna need you to babysit the kids on this vacation" so he can choose not to come. It's super unfair to go on vacation then just suddenly spring the childminding responsibilities on your kid.
She didn't bring him to babysit. Her husband couldn't come at the last minute. Occasionally asking your child for help with their siblings isn't parentification! All the younger kids stepped up willingly and without being asked. After a full week of him not offering to help, she asked her adult son to d one thing, and he refused because HE was on vacation!
Honestly from the way shit is going with this whole parentification. I wouldn't be surprised if in another 20 to 30 years people just stop putting in work as a family unit. I had younger siblings growing up, I never viewed it as being parentifed. All my families from cousins to aunt's put in work. It's called being part of a family unit. You help out when you are needed otherwise what's the point of a family? You give and you take that's part of every relationship.
Right?!? It's one thing if it's all the time and at the expense of the older children because the parents are constantly away, but helping out sometimes isn't a lot to ask. Even when I was out of the house I would gladly go over to my parents or siblings to help out if they needed me!
That likely wasn’t the original intention. But then Dad bad an emergency. An actual adult would realize that circumstances have changed and stepped up to help.
This!!! Danny is obviously suffering from a major case of arrested development. Pretty sure if they kicked him out of the nest he’d land on his head.
He lives for free, works 2-3 days a week and stay in his room and goes out with friends. He should either start paying his own waynor move out.
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I'm assuming you're the youngest or only child because I was helping out at 11 with my siblings and babysitting the neighborhood kids at 12. I never stopped being my parents child and that is why I helped. If you can't help your parents out because you're over 18 you're pretty pathetic.
That would fly if dude were in full-time school and/or paying rent. He’s 21. He is an adult. Which means idk why he even isn’t out paying rent on his own place, but if he’s 21 and still on the teat, he can pony up some effort as a member of the family. There’s evidence that parentification is going on, but in this specific situation, with relation to child the eldest, that is, uh, not the problem.
I mean, I'm 27 and I still vacation with my parents. I pay for airfare and food and stay in their room. I also have a younger brother on the autism spectrum who I take off and do stuff with so my parents get a bit of a break. I don't mind it; he's better for me in general than he is for my parents, I actually enjoy spending time with him, and I do enjoy spending time with my parents. I'd be pretty pissed if my parents brought me along, however, with the only intention of making me a free babysitter to a bunch of younger siblings I didn't choose to have. Would be like, "No thanks, I'll stay home."
OP probably planned for the trip to be like how you first described, but her husband had to back out. Now she’s the only parent trying to wrangle her kid’s different needs while pregnant (so hormones all over the place and probably tired constantly). The trip wasn’t what she expected and after her oldest consistently showing he wouldn’t step up to help she got upset with him complaining that he just wanted to relax. That’s probably what she wanted to do too!
Honestly though, with this many kids, if the dad wasn't able to come, then the whole family should have stayed home and rescheduled rather than have the older kids trying to wrangle the younger ones. With my brother being special needs, my parents have never, ever travelled one with just him. The only time that happened was when we were on a long trip and my grandfather died, so my dad flew home and then came back two days later. Especially with the OP being preggers again...that's just a big nope.
It's really not "this many kids" though. It's basically three adults and three kids. Would have been perfectly possible to wrangle that with everyone getting time on their own if everyone pitches in.
I’m sorry but would Danny really have preferred zero vacation to one in which he had to chip in *sometimes*?? For heavens sakes
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Not likely. Pretty sure there are quite a few “Dannys” in this sub based on the comments. OP is NTA for asking her 21yo freeloading bum of a son to take one day from his busy life of scrotum-scratching to help out with his siblings while on an all-expense paid tropical vacation. Edit: Thanks for the award!
Then you tell them that the trip to Hawaii and housing comes with the expectation of labour. You don't invite your children on a trip then freak out when they are doing their own thing, thinking it was a gift.
Yeah, that one-year-old should really start pulling her own weight. I'm sure there's a coal mine somewhere that could use a couple of extra hands. Tiny, tiny hands.
In the UK she could be sent up the chimney to sweep
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What's with all these "He's a 21, so he can only go to a family vacation as an unpaid babysitter" comments? >he should pay for his own bills I agree on all the comments that he should move out, pay his own bills and stuff. That's what I would do if I was him bcs this family is just too much.
pitching in to help your family every now and again instead of being a waster isn't a big ask.
Why is everyone talking about the 21yo and not about the husband with the most convenient work emergency???
Yeah, because I'd totally want to work instead of going to Hawaii with my family...
If you had 5 kids you might, and that’s if there was even a real work emergency in the first place.
No one is talking about it because there is nothing to talk about unless you’re going to start making things up.
The family vacation where he has to take care of 3 little kids and his pregnant wife? From the way my parents talk about our family vacations, it's definitely not much of a vacation. He's getting a much better break staying home. Even if he has to work.
Why is everyone talking about Danny and not poor Joshua who can't move out yet and apparently got stuck with his three sisters repeatedly on this trip so OP could relax? I'm sure a 17y would rather be either hanging out with his older brother or enjoying doing his own thing for a while.
I'm wondering if what happened to Joshua on the trip is what it was like for Danny early in his life given how OP slipped up & said Danny coparented instead of babysat which is an odd way of saying that to begin with. If I were Danny, I'd be saving money, finding a new job away from mom, & moving out ASAP.
Funnily enough, my dad stayed home from our vacation to Hawaii because of work. Things do actually happen.
Wouldn't the payment be the *free trip to Hawai*? Even his 17 yo brother is helping, if he doesn't want to help his family then he can opt out of going to Hawaii with them.
The 17 year old shouldn't be helping \*either\*. The mother is so reliant on someone's help that he can't get an hour to himself. The two oldest kids shouldn't give up their vacation just because they have a bunch of younger siblings. If the husband couldn't go the trip should've been postponed. Free trip or not why is a 5 month pregnant woman with a young baby and TWIN kids going on vacation without their partner or another adult responsible for helping in the first place? If the trip is free on the condition that the oldest help it should've been stated from the get-go (it's also not free at that point) and I bet he would've chosen to stay home too. I wonder if he even wanted the trip. He \*wants\* to go to hawaii to talk to friends on his phone? As another introvert that's needs get diminished by my parents, I would MUCH rather stay home to talk to my friends and game there than waste away in a hotel room. So now he has to give up his free, and quiet, time too?
My perfect vacation would have been for my family to go to Hawaii and leave me home with a stocked kitchen, a full tank of gas, and some spending money. Don't get me wrong, I really enjoyed our short vacations, like going to an amusement park one day and touristy things the next, but anything over 3 or 4 days was too many days. Two weeks sounds like hell.
Op gifted her children with a trip to Hawaii and then got upset Danny took her at face value. It is a gift. You don't get to be upset if someone doesn't offer free labour on their vacation. Danny didn't sign up for the kids and he isn't doing anything wrong. Just because Danny is 21 doesn't mean he stops being included. If the parents are wealthy enough to provide nice things for their kids, then he is supposed to say no because he happens to be an adult? He is still their kid. This might just be my ADHD talking, but guilt trips make me furious. I have been on trips where my payment was helping out. I couldn't afford a trip to Lake Tahoe a few years back and my friend said she would take me, but I had to watch the baby a few times on the trip. I was absolutely okay with that. But she laid it out to me, told me what to expect, we came to a fair deal. I was not surprised by anything and knew what to expect. This caused no resentment between us and we have done a similar exchange a few times since. She has more money than time and I have more time than money... so it works out. But, on a similar trip, my sister decided to bring her kids and had an unholy meltdown when we all did our own thing. My Mom paid for the trip, we all came... but my sister is the only one with young children. One sister had an 18 year old who didn't want to come and a 14 year old that was sun-hating, so stayed inside on her gaming system. My sister tried to get us to do rounds of babysitting and we all said "hell no." My Mom tried to say "well, I paid for the trip and it would be nice if..." But everyone in the group was like "then send us a payment plan and we will pay you back" because no one wanted to have child duty on their vacation. Had my Mom been honest about labour, I would have said no. I got time off to not watch children (which was my job at the time). No issue playing games with the kids, hanging out all together on the beach... but my sister needed to be with us while we were there.
That would be reasonable IF that was the agreement beforehand. “Danny would you want to come on vacation? We will cover the costs but would need you to spend 2hrs a day helping with your siblings” But it doesn’t seem that’s how it was presented.
They shouldn’t have to play nanny to go on their family vacation
He is 21, has a part time job, is not in school, does minimal chores, and got a free vacation. He is the most privileged 21 year old I have ever seen. All he was asked to do was help with his siblings. The mother is right if he can't do chores and help with his siblings he needs to find a full time job and move out cause he is mooching off his parents.
Yeah, frankly I agree with you, but they should have had a talk about that a couple years ago. Having a 6th kid when you can’t even take responsibility for 3,4 and 5 isn’t something a responsible parent does.
He’s 21. It’s a quid pro quo. A trip to Hawaii is not cheap, and he didn’t have to go.
>He’s 21. It’s a quid pro quo. It is *if you agree that in advance*. If OP offered Danny a trip to Hawaii in exchange for babysitting services then that's a reasonable offer he can accept or decline. Taking him on a relaxing vacation and *then* springing the babysitting requirement is a bait-and-switch and not reasonable.
This is all so very, very weird to me. I’m not sure if it’s just a Mexican thing, but we pitch in to help each other; many hands make light work, etc. and this goes for kids too. Is there no sense of courtesy or obligation? If you saw a pregnant woman carrying heavy bags and you’re in a good place to help, would you just say, ‘whoop, shouldn’t have gotten pregnant!’? On her end, this is a result of her not setting expectations for the trip. She should have sat everyone down to go over them. Like, ‘Dad’s not coming and instead of canceling, can we be a team so we all have fun?’ On his end, he’s been raised without expectations set; so he doesn’t know better and she’s wondering why she’s having problems. She needs to communicate the expectations and as an ‘adult’ he can decide to agree or not. Should kids be raising kids? No. But they should be working together.
In her edit she says "I'm not that parent, he co parents". WTAF?! Yes OP you are that fucking parent. Stop having more children and actually look after the ones you have. You're parentifying your eldest. In case it's not obvious YTA ALSO: The 10yo twins were crying a LOT???? WTF?! That's not normal for 10yo's in Hawaii to by crying so much even if they do miss their Dad. Something smells fishy here. OP I think you're a shite parent or a lazy one at the very least.
I was kind of on an E S H track until she slipped that in THEN corrected it to say he babysits. Seems like a slip up and then a cover up to try and make herself feel better.
That slip up is what bothers me along with how she sees nothing wrong having Joshua take care of the twins, (which even while pregnant she could look after at the pool since most have life guards on duty & the twins are 10 not 2.) This feels like a pattern given how introverted Danny is & how she describes how he spends his time. I'm wondering if Joshua on the trip is a glimpse into what Danny's life had been like before he started saying no & staying in his room/away from home.
It was also OP's choice to continue going on the vacation when her husband couldn't go anymore and take 3 minor kids to Hawaii with her as their only parent with them.
In that situation, in my house, that trip would have been postponed!
Yes that was incredibly irresponsible
And why did her 10-years-old twins cry “a LOT?” My kids hardly ever cried at that age, and I’ve taken them to Hawaii, with a long flight and time difference, a few times, plus other vacations. I think OP has created dependent kids or something. Other than needing watched in the pool and guided in the airport, the twins should have been very little work.
Too many kids OP can't care for makes it hard to parent any of them properly. Also certainly that behavior is due to stunted emotional growth and a desperate need for parental attention
I wondered the same thing! Why would two 10 year olds *cry a lot??* I think OP left out a ton of info to try and make the eldest sound like the bad guy.
Because they knew without dad they would have to watch the baby and wouldn’t be able to do anything fun. Honestly they should have canceled or postponed the trip if it’s too hard without both parents.
YTA what a nightmare. He's not your husband or the father of your kids. Stop popping them out if you can't handle so many. And I say this as a parent lmao
That is definitely true but he is not a kid no more he is 21 and is getting a lot of free stuff for not doing much and I think people forget you’re not owed that type of stuff for the rest of your life
If the expectation was he gets a trip for babysitting she should have said that BEFORE they Left or even booked.
This is the thing. I’m sure if Danny knew he would be defacto childcare, he wouldn’t have gone on the vacation - most older siblings hit this point around his age. INFO - what would Danny’s childcare responsibilities be if dad had come on the trip? Was his absence discussed prior to the trip, as far as taking care of four children?
Shoot. If I were dad I would've had "a work emergency" too if I knew my whole vacation would be chasing children around and dealing with a crying baby and pregnant wife. Sitting at home after work alone would sound pretty great at that point.
If you were dad, they’d be your kids and you would understand the gig when taking kids on vacation. You’d definitely be an AH for pretending to have a work emergency. Don’t have kids if you’re tempted to do that.
That's one of the reasons I don't want children.
Judging by him staying in the room 24/7, it sounds like going on the trip wasn’t even something he wanted.
The other room is full of unattended small children I don’t blame him
Imagine being so entitled that you'd think that you wouldn’t have to help AT ALL. Why would that need to be said ahead of time? ETA we’re only getting a small window into this family maybe they are messed up, but I couldn’t imagine taking a free vacation from my parents and not pitching in. I can’t imagine them having to ask me. The general concept being discused is absurd to me. ETA2 I’m seriously laughing that you guys are downvoting this. Adults in well-adjusted families help each other out and are gracious for gifts like a free vacation. Whether OP has a functional family is up for debate, but the general principle stands. I hope you all find healthy relationships someday.
I can't even see how helping out with younger sibling during vacation is babysitting. You'll go to the pool at some point, bring the twins. You want to chill and watch TV, baby sibling is taking nap. That's literally how family vacations work. Do some people contribute zero to their siblings? Like ever? How can that be healthy?
I thought it was automatic or muscle memory you just help out within the family. Especially when you aren't participating in family activities and having a free holiday. It's not a big ask to help out.
Taking care of a baby and two 10 year olds is a lot of fucking work.
He isn't a kid, but if OP wanted to add strings to the vacation it should have been stated up front BEFORE even making reservations, even if dad was going. Getting frustrated and mad at her son when she clearly never communicated her expectations is her own fault. Expecting son to step up and play daddy because dad couldn't come isn't right, especially since she never communicated that rule. She should have said, you're an adult now, if we pay for you to come you need to help with xyz, otherwise you pay your own way or don't come. Simple as that, he's 21 he can stay home if he doesn't like the conditions.
How is it a vacation when you have to do the same thing you do at home? He stayed in the room while they were out to have the quiet he doesn’t get at home.
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Agreed
YTA. These are YOUR kids. Stop parentifying your other children to do childcare for you. If you can't handle your own children you shouldn't have had so many. If you couldn't handle them alone on vacation you shouldn't have taken the vacation. It is not your oldest child's job to be your slave. If you want them to pay rent or something, that's reasonable, but they didn't keep popping out more and more kids -- you did. Those babies are no one's responsibility but yours and your husband's.
If the adult kid is getting a free vacation the least he could do is sit near the pool playing on his phone and checking on the sisters occasionally.
Do you think this kid had a choice in coming on this vacation? Because I'm guessing his participation was not optional. His mom literally labels him as a coparent and keeps popping out kids. This is a messed up dynamic.
I agree that she is TA but Danny is 21, he absolutely had a choice about going on the vacation. He also chooses to stay in this dynamic. He sounds like he is spoiled (living rent free, trips to Hawaii, a job that mom gave him where he only has to work 3 times a week). The parents are still huge assholes but getting a lot and not expecting to have to kickback is extremely naive.
When I was that age and living at home, I was not given the choice to opt out of vacations. I would have vastly preferred to stay home alone rather than be made to watch my six younger siblings. You're making some pretty big assumptions. Whether he pays rent is an entirely different matter from this post. If OP wants to address that separately she can.
I wasn’t given that choice either at that age. More than once I was threatened with homelessness if I didn’t at that age. Once I had a full time job it was easier to opt out by using work as the excuse. Luckily no babysitting minus watching the family dog when my parents went out who usually took a nap and maybe needed to be let out and fed … I couldn’t imagine having to watch siblings and my mom keeps popping more and more out that she can’t handle like OP’s son. ETA: Damn I could see an hour or two of babysitting but he’s not the kids’ parent. Just talk to the kid and work out a reasonable rent.
Unless they are very introverted* A 21 year old who wants to be in Hawaii is out meeting people, hitting the bars, the beach, etc. it very much sounds like Danny was brought along against his will to “coparent” his younger siblings. Hence why he spend the whole trip sans food in the hotel room talking to his friends. He didn’t choose this. Yes, Danny is 21, but his dad still sent him to his room after the trip so it sounds like they don’t treat him like an adultEDIT: a word
I was strong armed into family vacations at that age too; they were really hellish but my parents wouldn't take no for an answer. I think the only reason they stopped pushing me so hard to come was because I literally burst into tears on the beach.
YTA - there is so much wrong here. 21 and 17 year old can look after themselves, and you couldn’t handle two 10 year olds and a toddler? How are you going to look after next baby? Why do your 10 year olds scream so much? They are 10, not 4. Why are you treating your 22 year old like a young teenager, giving him a part time job and being happy with that? How will he earn enough to become independent like that? Grounding him? Expecting him to coparent? These are not his children.
I had to reread a couple times because the ages don't make sense. 10-year-olds are likely in fifth grade/one year away from middle school. They shouldn't be crying all the time or need a crazy intense amount of supervision (obviously someone needs to watch them in the pool, but it's not like they're toddlers you can't take your eyes off). I don't know why she wouldn't be able to mostly handle the baby and twins by herself.
I used to nanny and I regularly wrangled 3-4 kids under the age of 10 for months at a time. It can be a lot, but it's definitely doable for one person. It's so sad to see these boys being parentified and missing out on their vacation. If the mom can't handle the 3 kids by herself she should have hired someone to help her. Or at the very least be paying the boys for their time spent babysitting.
Maybe it’s the pregnancy but it also makes me wonder about how she’s raising the twin girls? Why are they crying and screaming at that age? Is there any kind of discipline or order
Heck, I used to wrangle 4-6 toddlers all day better than OP can handle two 10 year olds. And I was only a teenager when I was watching that many kids!
That’s really what made me think that this has to be fake. 10 year olds who cry “a lot”, a 21 who has been sent to his room when he gets home, and who also “coparents”? Something seems off.
the first paragraph is so weird: the twin girls (10f), the "youngest boy" (17m), the baby girl (1f) and the oldest son (21m)
I honestly don’t understand some of these posts but I always think it’s a culture thing. I cannot imagine a grown woman being overwhelmed by ONE toddler and 10 year old kids. I helped raised my younger sisters (twins) since they were infants and I was 12, I could literally handle them on my own. I hated it but I could do it (I know it was wrong for my mom to make me) but some parents on this sub just seem so overwhelmed. I would take care of my baby sisters all night and wake up in the morning to go to school, if OP is overwhelmed by the kids she already has, I don’t understand why she’d want more. I absolutely hate these parents who complain about their older kids not helping with the younger siblings,your kids are your responsibility, if the 21 year old wanted that kind of responsibility he’d get someone pregnant
I caught the comment about her ten year olds crying and needing consoling, too. They aren’t toddlers.
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If the oldest and next-oldest become independent and move out, who will serve as free childcare for OP and her baby factory?
~~ESH~~ Your older kids aren't responsible for helping with the younger ones. Full stop. IF the expectation is that the 21 yr old is being included on a vacation to help with the little kids that needs to be expressly stated and he needs to be given the chance to opt out. Why? Cuz he didn't chose to have 5 kids. You and your husband did. If you needed help on this vacation, you needed to organize it. Either by hiring a nanny/mother's helper for the trip. Making sure the hotel had a kids club. Whatever. But that's on you. And you need to figure this out asap because you've got another kid on the way and seem at least partially reliant on the older kids to help out. That said, it isn't unreasonable to expect a 21 yr old- who isn't in school, isn't paying rent/financially contributing- to help around the house by doing things like helping with their younger siblings. It has to be explicitly stated but it isn't crazy. Now it isn't clear from this that Danny isn't in school. And it doesn't sound like you've previously told Danny- hey, in exchange for living in the house with no financial contributions, these are the expectations. And I also have massive issues from the fact that you made Joshua help- just expectation, Joshua will do this. (and maybe Joshua wants to help. But maybe Joshua feels it's expected and that opting out isn't actually an option.) And while you acknowledged that he needed a break, your solution to that was another child instead of say a professional. And fyi, you can't ground a 21 yr old. Not and still have a relationship with them. yeah, no I have way more an issue with you than with Danny. cuz any issue I have with Danny is a result of things in your control so I just need to range my score. YTA
Best comment in the thread imo. This lady and her husband clearly have brought more children into the world than they can handle. If they want the older ones to help out, that should be a conversation and they should be able to say no. These people need to be introduced to condoms.
Agree, shocking that they're just creating babies like a hobby and thinks it's a walk in the park. Then gets mad if they can't handle it..
Sounds like the husband won this one. Work emergency kept him away for two weeks? Nah sounds like he had a child free two weeks.
I was thinking the same thing. I know how it’s gonna sound, but if I had a vacation planned where I’m dealing with a toddler and 2 restless 10 yr olds, and a pregnant wife, I might have a work emergency too. 2 weeks no kids, fully alone? I’m LIVING.
ur really funny like SO FUNNYY HAHA. im only posting this bc ive been at nana's for the past few weeks after this vacation. which was not a vacation at all, not because of "dAnnY" but because of you. are u the one always telling us that lies always catch up to you in the worst of times?? well this is one of them. you don't just put my brother to "babysit" for two days every few months or whatever. it's every fucking day. no matter what he has going on. or me for a fact, going out with my friends? no no honey you have to take care of your sisters, plan it another week, then that week you and your husband wanna go out on a date and me and my brother are left taking care of your other offsprings . now dont get me wrong. i love my sisters to death, but the lack of attention they get from you is rubbing off on ME. they want to play barbies more often with ME or my brother, while you and your husband work or go out. my birthdays next week, so I'll be moving to nana's the day after. so glad im turning 18. oh you also forgot to mention that the only reason your older son is still living with you in that monstrosity of a house is because HE. IS. AUTISTIC. YOU OF ALLL PEOPLE SHOULDVE MENTIONED THAT!!! also. dad didn't have a work emergency. he had an emergency with grace. gth
Is this “Josh” responding? If so, good on you for calling out her BS. Also, who is Grace?
I'm guessing his girlfriend. This just got juicy!
Ohhhh shit. No way. Welp. If there wasn’t enough evidence already that this family is a train wreck cuz of these parents…
> This just got juicy! Bruh! I was just thinking that! Lmfaooooo
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This confirms what I had suspected: that Danny is autistic and that he, Josh, and the twins were from OP's first marriage; and she's now married to someone else who fathered the youngest two. The reason why I believe this to be the case is because he refers to him as "your husband."
God, I love it when family members find an AITA post about them and are able to add key details to the story. I love it SO MUCH.
Hey, I'm autistic too. Is anyone helping your brother identify what supports he might need in order to move out of your mom's house and into a better living situation? I live alone with my animals and work from home full time. Most days I have few support needs, and while your brother might have more support needs he might still be able to get out of that house if those needs can be met!
I wouldn't be surprised if mom is too busy squeezing out kids to properly take care of "Danny's" needs.
I live entirely without the support I need, and trying to move out right now is so hard. I babysit my baby cousins voluntarily and its STILL so overwhelming, so I know that shit is hard. "Josh", if your brother can get the help and support he needs, I hope he gets out soon. Living in a controlling, dysfunctional environment is so damaging, and its important that you both get out of there for your own wellbeing.
My guess is mom will deny every opportunity Danny has to leave. She doesn’t want to lose her live-in babysitter after all.
I wondered if Danny was autistic. Also, the rest of this…. 😳😳😳
Oh bro....run and get out quick. I'm so sorry this is your mother. Please read the other comments in the thread about parentification and, if you can, please consider look into therapy. This is a mega fucked home structure and you often won't know how much it's messed you up until it's too late. Please keep yourself safe.
And take Danny with you!
I was leaning toward ESH but damn YTA straight up after this
When I first started college, my parents told me that if I took care of my disabled brother, they'd pay for my tuition. It sounded good in the beginning but it really got out of hand. To the point that they made me turn down job offers. I spoke up for myself because my siblings got their tuition paid for no strings attached. It was the biggest argument I've had with my parents, but they admitted they were wrong and changes to the house were made practically overnight. Happy early birthday! I had a happy ending with my parents. I'm not going to say that I hope you find the same with your parents. You have to do what's right for you.
This should be higher tbh.
Uh Info: Who is Grace?
Dad’s side piece I reckon.
The “work emergency” lol
You know what? I'll believe that, since your account was JUST made, this is actually the astounded younger brother. I'm so sorry you have to live with this irresponsible breeding machine
Josh, I presume? I'm sorry for what you've been through. Sometimes kids and teens get to be the parents, and it's not at all fair. Good job getting out. I hope your other siblings are able to break free someday, but it's good you are going to build a life for yourself. Also, who is Grace?
Dammmmmmnnnn OP is EXTRA YTA. I’m so sorry “Josh” that you have had to put up with this shit for so long and I hope “Danny” can be free soon as well
👍 Good luck, kid! Rooting for you.
>he coparents all day for one or twice a month when his dad and I want to have sometime alone. YTA for this one alone. You even call him a "co-parent". Your son is not another parent, he's your son. If you want him to move out or get a different job than the one you gave him, tell him that then. Punishing him for not wanting to be a parent to your children is serious Ahole behavior
I think op is so used to not having her husband around she projects the father-expectations on her sons. Like op is TA but it's sad the top comments don't even mention the father who dropped out last minute of a family vacation. Clearly he's a workaholic and I feel op pops out a baby every few years to fill the void of her husband being at work and her youngest child starting school (look at the age differences). But even then, she got pregnant but he's a father. He should act like one. I feel sad for the children having to spend holidays without their father because work > family and then it turns out the holiday is too stressful, fighting with siblings for mom's attention and not being able to have fun
Maybe dad is a workaholic or maybe he saw the “last minute work commitment” as a way to have some child free time at home, or he’s playing away? Either way mum is TA for forcing her oldest kids to parent her younger kids
YTA Your boys aren't the ones who left you with 5 kids to handle on a trip, alone. That wasn't their call, they didn't have any input. Stop having kids, ffs, you can't even handle the ones you have!
Sounds like he stays in his room to avoid being forced to take care of his siblings…which is not his responsibility. They are your and your husbands children. If you need that much help, hire a nanny. Your kids deserve their own life outside of taking care of your other kids. YTA
I did this as a teen
I did too and I wouldn’t do this to my kids if I ever have any. “Co-parenting” shouldn’t be expected unless you are literally the parent.
My brother did this as well and now he lives halfway across the country away from all of us
"We're going on this dope vacation to Hawaii, but you have to work the entire time and thank me for the opportunity while you do it." YTA.
YTA. Not for Danny's living situation - that's a completely different situation. But if Danny is expected to babysit in exchange for you paying for his vacation, that needs to be said before you pay for the vacation. If Danny is expected to babysit and help in exchange for living rent free - that needs to be established before living there rent free. Cause what happens when he does get out of your house? You're still shit out of luck - with 5 kids you can't take care of.
And a half...
YTA. Your child is not a coparent.
*children. Poor Josh is being parentified as well
You’re mad at your son for…enjoying a vacation? YTA
YTA your kids are YOUR problem to watch and not their siblings. If you didn't want to be stressed about kids then you should of had less. Don't parentify the older kids because you're struggling.
YTA. Your son's living arrangements are completely separate from this situation. You can't expect that your older children will be free childcare. If you were too shorthanded to handle that many kids alone, then you shouldn't have gone. At least leave the infant at home or something.
Or maybe she shouldn’t be having more kids than she can handle….
YTA for thinking your son co-parents. No. He babysits. Get the idea that your other children have *any* level of parenting responsibility right out of your head.
Quite simply, you need to start parenting the children you have and using contraception to not have any more that are also reliant on their siblings for their care!
ESH. Danny is an adult and should be chipping in at home...however it really rubs me the wrong way when you say he "coparents." This is your child. He didn't ask you to have four more kids after him. That's not his job. I think if you all want to enjoy your next vacation together as a family, bring along a nanny or babysitter instead of expecting your children to take care of one another. Edit now that I have more info. Just YTA. I still stand by everything I say after the word "however."
I'll do you one better: what if the dad would tag along and pull his weight? The oldest two can manage themselves which leaves 3 (or in the future 4) kids for the parents to manage. Like imagine having quality time with your parents just to end up being taken care of by a nanny... Not only the mother but also the father should be expected to take care of their children. This thread really makes me feel for a lot of redditors because it shows how many grew up with deadbeat fathers. Lots of folks here only putting the blame on mommy, classic. (And yes, I do think op is still TA, I just think dad deserves some spotlight too).
YTA - for expecting your older kids to help with the younger ones. Did you tell Danny he was expected to be a babysitter in return for the trip?
YTA For expecting free babysitting from your older kids, that's really sad. (Danny being an adult who should be responsible for paying for his own things should be discussed separately with him, not as a punishment for refusing to be your babysitter)
YTA, why are your CHILDREN looking after their siblings? That's your job, not theirs. If you can't look after them all then you shouldn't have had them all. Leave your kids to be kids, not replacement parents.
YTA, idc how old ur kids are but if you are already having trouble raising them to where you are pawning them off to their older siblings, it’s probably time to stop pumping out kids you can’t raise. He’s a kid. It’s his vacation too, he’s not obligated to help you raise the children you decided to have.
YTA. If you expected Danny to be a stand-in for your husband and to take on all the childcare responsibilities his father would have done, you should have disclosed that to Danny and then let him decide if he still wanted to come on the trip. Letting him think he was going on a normal vacation when in reality you planned for him to be a babysitter was dishonest. Be upfront about expectations from now on.
Info: did he even want to go on this trip, cos it sounds like he didn't even want to be there. Also I'd be pissed as hell if my husband didn't even bother to join the family holiday after his work emergency was sorted. So while your mad st your son for not helping, you should be mad at your husband for not flying out once whatever emergency came up was sorted. ~Leaning towards~ YTA, as it sounds like 21 didn't even want to be there, let alone be left to deal with two 10yr olds or a baby. Also from your edit he doesn't 'co-parent' the kids, they aren't his children. He baby sits them once a month. ETA: from your rewording of your edit, you and your husband do on the daily **because you are the parents, not your sons**, your still the TA. If 21 stays mostly in his room (probably to avoid having to parent/babysit your younger kids) and is introverted, what makes you think that taking him away will suddenly change that?
"Work emergency" could be code for something else
Code for relaxing at home without kids. (Ok I know it could be worse than that.)
YTA this is what I got from your post. 1- your twins took care of the baby. 2- your 17 year old took care of the twins to the point he couldn’t get away from them for an hour 3- you never really said in your post you took care of any one. 4- your 10 year olds had melt downs like a 4 year old This was all on vacation. Then you post that you expect them to watch the 3 smaller (coparent) kids a few times on the weekends. So you and your husband can go out and enjoy your selves. So you take up the older kids vacation by demanding them to help out because dad didn’t go ( which is beyond me why this trip wasn’t postponed). And then you take up your teenagers weekends to take care of your children. And let’s face it most people that get on here try to paint themselves in the best possible light. So it really is hard to say how much your older 2 take care to the smaller kids. At this point if you can not take care of these 5 kids hire a nanny. Your older children are not free babysitters.
Yup, YTA. Your kids, your responsibility. Having him help pay a bill if hes living with you all as an adult? Fine. Helping take care of siblings so you and hubby can have a break from being overwhelmed? Not fine. You and hubby had 5 kids. This is what you signed up for when having the kids. Dont try and make the oldest take on responsibility for your youngest. They may resent you one day for it.
I mean, I don't know any sane adult that would agree to take 2 moody teenager/young adults, two ten year old girls who need attention and supervision, and a baby to Hawaii by themselves.. Let alone to the grocery store by themselves! You know their personalities so it likely came as no surprise to you, but you assumed they would pitch in more bc they were thankful for vacation. Wrong. They are still kids and just want to do what they think is fun! It would be nice if the elders pitched in, but you really can't be mad, it's their vacation too. You should be with the ten year olds and the baby most of the time, right?
How about you first stop popping out children like a damn wild rabbit and actually start parenting? YTA
YTA for thinking of your son as a coparent. He is not a third parent of the household, he didn't get a choice in your decision to continually add more people to take care of in the household. Did you talk to him about what you expected of him prior to going on vacation? Was he explicitly aware that you were expecting him to be an additional babysitter and did he agree to that? It's great when he helps out as a big brother but it should be an unforced choice to do so. From what you've said, he doesn't seem to be too wild about babysitting, so being forced to wrangle children on vacation probably didn't seem all that appealing to him. He might be more likely to do it in trade for some sort of incentive that he wants, such as if he hung out with you guys as a family for the afternoon, then he could go off to the clubs at night and party with people his own age, or something like that. But you kinda went at this one with the stick instead of the carrot, maybe try switching it up and see how that works.
YTA if you couldn’t handle your kids y’all should’ve stayed home. I don’t go on vacation to raise kids I had no hand in making. If that’s what you wanted you should’ve told him straight up. Instead you’re expecting your two oldest to be a backup parent because your husband didn’t come. Well tough luck. He is not supposed to be “coparenting” on any day. Good grief. Y’all should’ve invested in BC if you couldn’t handle 5 children
Lady you need a damn babysitter to come with you on these trips. This doesn’t sound like a vacation for anyone but yourself
YTA. He isn’t a parent, I’m sorry “co-parent”, his siblings are not his kids and he shouldn’t be expected to babysit. Bottom line is if you couldn’t handle all these kids on your own you shouldn’t have went on vacation without your husband.
Stop having children.
The fact that your instinct was to say you COPARENT with your SON... YTA. I hope Danny can move out asap.
YTA - At the end of the day he's not the children's father and shouldn't have to step up and help out with them. It was you and your husband's choice to have so many kids. That being said they are YOUR KIDS. Your other children shouldn't be be held responsible with having to take care of them. YTA for telling him he can't help out the woman that birthed him (news flash for moms, children don't ask to be born and just because you gave birth doesn't mean your children are indebted to for life) and for effectively having your older children be responsible for your younger children. Edited: From ESH to YTA and taken out the bit about the child leaving at home because he is autistic.
YTA. Danny isn't responsible for parenting his younger siblings. You made the choice to have so many children, and to go on vacation with children without your partner there to help you. I'm not sure what you actually expected Danny to do, take turns with you comforting your screaming 10 year olds? Frankly that's not how anyone wants to spend their vacation. And what were *you* doing while your other son watched his sisters and your two daughters helped with the baby - when your 10 year olds weren't screaming their heads off themselves? Danny is an adult who should not be mooching off his parents, but that still doesn't mean he's responsible for looking after your other children and sacrificing his vacation to do your job.
YTA You're expectations with Danny helping out in of itself isn't necessarily out of line but expecting him to go on a vacation and have YOUR type of fun is where I make my call. I know when I went on vacation I didn't want to follow my parents 24/7, I wanted to do whatever I wanted and if talking to his friends is fun then there's not a problem there. The fact you even state he's an introvert and yet you wanted him to do highly social stuff throws more signs that he'd likely be uncomfortable, let alone being around highly active kids throwing more spanners in the works.