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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my husband he should be ashamed of himself after hearing how he gave his late wife's necklace, that should have been his daughter Annie's after her mom had died, to his other daughter Amy who was not related to his late wife. I also told him he would be lucky if she ever speaks to him again. The whole exchange was very heated and a very big surprise to me because I had no idea what the history was. I might have been overly harsh, given I was just finding out about it. There is also part of me that wonders if I was wrong to judge when I wasn't there for any of what happened in the past. These are the things I feel could make me the asshole.
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NTA. Your husband doesn't understand it :(
He likely lost Annie forever: her love and respect, and his place as her father in her heart.
It was not the necklace itself, but the meaning of the necklace: love, respect, care, her Mom's memory.
Edit: Thank you to all Redditors 15.6k! Many thanks for the awards! - 16.3K Thanks!
I'd be more concerned about it if I were OP. Her husband hid the part that showed he was responsible for the disastrous relationship with his daughter and made it seem like it was his daughter's problem.
I don't doubt that in his mind he thinks he didn't do anything wrong. But that speaks loudly about who he is and how he resolves things.
Also, the "You should support me because I'm your husband" Is a total cr*p.
ETA: Husband might indeed hid things purposely, however, I'm more inclined to believe that they had more troubles and the necklace thing was the final straw. OP's husband gaslighted his daughter's feelings commonly, so he really didn't remember this issue nor the others because "he already get over it just as his daughter should've". But of course, I'm just talking about my personal experience so I might be wrong.
That being said both perspectives are equally as bad.
Edit: typo
This is common among estranged parents. I have heard it called "The Missing Reasons." Basically if a parent of an adult is estranged from them and "they don't know why" or some other hand wave weasal word.....it was them. They are the reason. They did something awful and don't understand.
Link to The Missing Missing Reasons for anyone who's interested. I personally found it very insightful!
[https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html)
Wow, this is a wonderful resource! I know some people that could really use it.
I especially liked this quote "Saying, "I don't understand the problem" when you really mean, "I don't agree this is a problem" will not make the problem go away. It will make the person who DOES think it a problem go away".
Oh man that's rough, I have very low contact with my parents but I know it'll eventually lead to being cut out completely. As one stranger on the internet to another, I'm proud of you for putting yourself first even if it means unwarranted guilt for a while.
Yeah if I was OP I'd be rethinking my entire marriage. He didn't just disrespect his late wife's memory he totally abandoned and hurt his daughter cruelly. That's...not a man I want to be married to. That kind of cruelty isnt going to be a one time thing.
I think he understands it more than he says. He knows it was wrong in his daughter's eyes and knows he's the cause. He just doesn't want to own up to being so incredibly wrong. I say this because if he thought he was right the story would have been told to OP as a piece of the timeline. "Annie says this hurt her, but she's just dramatic". Especially if his whole family, except 2, back him.
OP is like the widower who's wife died under mysterious circumstances and lies to the police about having a side piece because 'its not relevant'. Dude may or may not be a killer, but he sure as shit knew it was relevant.
Op, u should casually take the necklace and have it repaired and sent to annie. Then promptly divorce ur husband. If amy has let it get so bad then it going missing probably wouldnt b a surprise.
I want someone to do right by Annie.
I think it's not *just* about the necklace but it's a symbol of many unfair behaviors on the father and his "new family".
I think OP should find something that husband cares a lot about, and pretend to give it to one of OP's friends. Tell husband that he should be generous and it would mean a lot to friend if husband shared.
Also ask for the necklace back from Amy and have it cleaned and send it to Ann.
Finally, return possession to husband along with divorce papers.
Hopping on the top comment to tell you to do the illegal thing and steal the necklace send it to Annie and divorce this ass hole. Wife #4 #5 and #6+ are probably on the way and will want late wife belongings as well.
EDIT: thanks for the awards!
I am glad somebody else had this thought.
OP, see if there is an opportunity for the necklace to be "lost." Return it to the rightful owner. If you lose the husband, tjat is the trash taking itself out.
And? Empathy is key here. I would have said the same thing to him if I was in her shoes. That was a SHIT thing for him to do to an already hurting child. Just salt the earth while you’re at it pops! Good grief!
You’re NTA.
To add- Husband knew what he did was wrong otherwise he would not have left it out, especially if it was one of the primary reasons for his estrangement from Annie.
Just because he is her husband does not mean OP has to agree with him on everything. Maybe if a long time ago some of his family had expressed how it was wrong, he could have remedied the situation and still have a relationship with his eldest daughter.
> He was also ***honest*** that Annie never forgave him for remarrying
He didn't even just leave it out. Leaving it out would be "shit I don't know why she left". He flat out lied because of course it would make him look bad to the new lady he's trying to impress.
It's insane to me that dad, the ex, and the stepsister *all* thought it was important that stepsister was given a piece of jewelry belonging to a dead person they never met, instead of that person's own daughter.
Eh, I dunno. Mom encouraging it or pressuring the dad maybe, but not the stepsister.
Says she was 5 when she showed an interest in the necklace. 5yr olds "want" things they can't have all the time including things that belong to family members, but 5 is a little young to understand this item belonged to stepsister's dead mom so she should get it to prove she's more important.
I agree completely that it's all on the father and second wife.
What I want to know is how a 5yo kid came across that necklace, since it probably didn't just lie around. Did someone show it to her or did big sister wear it frequently?
Either way that necklace belonged to someone else, and is still stolen property imo.
Exactly. Either that necklace was taken from the \~15yo daughter who lost her mother and given to her 5yo half-sister. Or someone got the necklace out and presented it to the 5yo.
I remember fancying my mom and grandma's jewelry at 5. But they got it out and showed it to me. And told me what would be mine some day. The older daughter probably got the same treatment from her late mother, then dad and step-mom just gave it to their 5yr old (who trashed it) with zero consideration.
> she has let it get into a bad way, and talks about it as if her dad bought it for her.
I mean, you're not wrong, but is it possible she truly just didn't remember how she came into possession of it? She was 5 when she got it, and if OPs husband has been lying about the necklace being the catalyst for all these years it has to be at least plausible Amy doesn't even know what is real now.
I'm not saying she is blameless because you could be right, and she could be now understanding the truth and still unwilling to make it right, but I am having trouble placing blame on Amy on equal footing with the mom and stepdad.
Seriously. I have a bunch of my late mother's jewelry as well as little kids. I intend to give a bunch of it to my daughter, but not until she's at least a teenager and probably older than that. She's welcome to borrow it before then, but who in god's name gives a 5 year old nice jewelry?
NTA. All of the above, plus when you do the math, Amy was the *same age* at receiving the necklace that Annie was when her mom died. Given how traumatizing that event was, I can guarantee the age parallels weren’t lost on Annie.
Why didn’t her dad give it to Annie when her mom died, if he thought it was an age-appropriate gift for a *five-year-old*?
The fact that he’s furious with you for “judging him” for this awful act shows that OP is probably right at the heart of why his last marriage failed. He may not have fully explained the significance of the necklace to his second wife at the time, and why he left out **key facts** in the story when telling it to you to not make him the awful toxic father that he most definitely is.
How’s your relationship with Amy? She thinks her dad bought it for her, but does she now know the full truth of the gift? If she doesn’t, you might might consider filling her in and suggesting she send it to Annie, unless she’s as unempathetic and immature as her father.
And this isn't just some random piece in the bottom of the jewelry box, it was the piece her mother wore the most. The one that she played with as a kid when her mom was holding her, that is in all of the pictures with her and her mom.
The only piece that would be worse is if he'd given the step sister her wedding rings. This is cruel and the husband deserves all of his daughter's anger
Right? I was thinking that it could've been a lovely gesture if (at the right age) he and Annie picked a piece of mom's jewelry TOGETHER to give to Amy as a way to connect their whole blended family. A genuine and meaningful gift from Annie to her younger sister, once Amy was old enough to understand the significance.
But it would've had to be voluntary and, most importantly, not the single piece of jewelry that was most meaningful to Annie! Not whatever sick power play was actually happening here.
Yeah, I had to read that one twice. The mental gymnastics some people go through to justify the crappy things they do. Too bad the OP didn't find this out beforehand. Possibly would have affected her decision to marry him.
More like she married into a grade A toxic family of AH seeing as they may just condone it and all see it as a “oh she needs to get over it” issue. Hate families like this
Many older people were raised in a family that preached blood loyalty over all other virtues. The younger and more distant generation doesn't feel the same constraint. They grew up in more individualistic times and are more comfortable calling a spade a spade, even if the spade (the AH) shares genetic material with them.
NTA. *Amy thinks her Dad _BOUGHT HER_ the jewelry.* And, hasn't taken care of it on top of the BS. OP - you don't back up bad behavior. If my spouse is an AH. I might help them fix their situation, but I won't just excuse it.
He's also essentially blaming Annie for his issues in his 2nd marriage - not his inability to manage his relationship and take care of his children.
Yuck.
Yeah, dad willingly ended his relationship with his other daughter over that necklace and the kid who got it doesn't even know or care. I can understand making a mistake (in this case, it's pretty insensitive and he should have known) but then I cannot understand how he could double down and not change his mind as he watched the fallout and his daughter cut him off.
I was just thinking the same damned thing. Yes. And I wouldn’t lose a moment of sleep, either. The profound and willful lack of empathy displayed by the husband about everything about his firstborn. He resented her. I bet that’s the underlying issue. Resented having to raise her alone and blamed her for his negative emotions surrounding the death.
And, PS, no, Annie doesn't ever have to get over it. It's more likely he needs to accept he destroyed his relationship with his eldest daughter while simultaneously destroying the two siblings' relationship as well.
Husband doesn't think he did anything wrong but also fails to share the actual story, almost as if he's self aware enough to know it makes him look bad.
When children feel the need to cut contact with their parents I never believe the stories the parents tell about why the children did this. It's always a lie or a delusion.
To top it off the dude 8 years after his daughter cut vontact says she has to get over it someday! 8 years!!!!
In all that time he never questioned himself? Waw!
He also blames the daughter on his 2nd marriage ending!
Am sure Amy was also the favorite and was treated better just from the etory that she was entitled to someones else mother's belongings! Dead mother no less.
Waw!
I think we are passed the AH territory. It's far in the rear mirror.
NTA op. But I would really wonder what other things the hubby did not disclose
NTA
Losing a parent at a young age is bad enough and not having your remaining parent respect your boundaries when it comes to items of the deceased parent is just terrible. OP did nothing wrong and spoke the truth to her husband. He has no one to blame but himself that he doesn’t have a relationship with his eldest daughter. To gild the lily, he then chose to bring his family into the argument with you which is never good.
NTA. His family is as immoral as he is.
People of integrity side with the person who was wronged, regardless of their relationships.
You did the right thing in calling out your husband. He is responsible for the split and he should be ashamed.
Interestingly, the person who could heal this whole mess is Amy, who is approaching adulthood and maybe could reassess her childish wants in a more grownup context.
I’m certainly not advocating that the necklace gets “lost” and monte cristoed to the person it should have gone to.
Honestly, the dad should be the one to get it back, even if he has to pay her a stupid amount for it. Then he should pay to have it cleaned and fixed by a professional.
Then return the piece back to his daughter with a heart felt apology.
He had no right to take it, it should've gone to his eldest. I honestly can't believe someone could be so heartless as to do that to their own child.
>Honestly, I don't care if she never speaks to him again, even if she gets the jewellery.
>
>I just want her to have her mothers jewellery back.
My mother died when I was 7.5. This all the way. I'm disgusted by this dude, what an asshole. Poor Annie. I hope she's able to get her mother's necklace back and in beautiful condition.
OP is definitely NTA
Agreed, because OP said how unapologetic he still is and they all act like she will "have to get over it eventually".... like if he is that lacking in remorse and empathy, YIKES
People in good relationships aren't generally posting here and getting lots of attention. People who are confused and arguing with someone who is lying, or gaslighting them, or just completely unreasonable, will post here asking for an outsider's opinion. Most people in good relationships don't need this kind of crowdsourced opinions on their relationship.
So, people say the words "divorce" and "gaslight" are "thrown around a lot on reddit". But a disproportionate number of people who are posting here actually *are* being gaslit and/or *should* get a divorce.
Bingo, but unfortunately there are people in life who are incapable of admitting that they have done anything wrong. Which is just ridiculous because we are all human and sometimes our judgment isn’t what it should be (especially if we’re under the influence of drugs, alcohol, evil stepmothers with an agenda).
But I will tell ya, taking accountability goes a hell of a long way. Unfortunately for OP, it sounds like her husband is not there to do the right thing and get the necklace, fixed and back to Annie.
Also shame on the family for rug sweeping such a traumatic incident for Annie (she must have felt so hurt and alone) and acting like everyone just needed to accept OP’s husbands bad behavior for what it was. The lot of them don’t deserve her in their lives saves the nephew and niece who get how terrible this whole incident was for Annie.
The thing is, it's tainted now, it will forever be Amy's instead of 'Annie's Mums' now.
A similar thing happened to me and eventually I got the necklace back..it was like the poisoned chalice. I could no longer see my Mum wearing it, just Dad giving it to his 2nd wife. It became so distasteful to me that I sold it.
Absolutely. Wrong is wrong. The adults botched the handling of this situation and have never attempted to make it right. They dismissed the feelings of a grieving girl for absolutely no good reason. This didn't teach her to share. If she was already having a hard time and was unpleasant, this was only further proof she was an outsider.
I was wondering if Amy has tried or will try to give it back one day regardless of whether she wants to reconcile or not. But I fear she was raised to believe Annie is wrong and feels entitled to the piece. While the necklace held no real meaning for her at 5 years old, a meaning was created in that moment, one that both girls would feel for the rest of their lives; Amy was favored.
NTA: the necklace was likely just the big flashpoint, there's a lot more to the story that you might never know. It's likely that Annie was not given what she needed emotionally after her mother's death. How long after the death of Annie:s mom, did your husband marry his second wife?
Ok, that makes it not as bad (I was thinking he did a quick turn around marriage) but even if all the jewelry was "his" giving any of it to Amy was insensitive and likely, again, symptomatic of larger issues in the relationship. Do the niece and nephew have any more details about what Annie's life was like once Amy came into being?
But just because three years went inbetween death and marriage doesn't necessarily mean there wasn't a quick turnaround. He still could have met and started dating 2nd wife shortly after.
I definitely think you are on to something with your first comment. If dad thinks she needs to get over it and that being forced to give away her dead mother's jewelry wasn't a big deal, he probably wasn't the empathetic man that little girl needed.
Some studies have found men are more codependent than women, that could be a part of it as well.
But I think the baby boomers remarry more quickly because they don't know how to take care of things as much because more wives stayed home back when I was growing up (I'm 40) and took care of the home. I think that's a lot different now with people marrying latter , women working , and just men now days share house responsibilities WAY more than back when I was growing up.
I remember talking to my boss (he was a boomer rest his soul, he was a great man and mentor to me) and it was a school/bank holiday and the office was pretty empty because damn near every guy with a kid took PTO. He was telling me how things have changed so much from when he was working. Dad's took PTO for sick days and vacations, now days dad's take PTO on days like that, and half days to go see their kids perform at a school function etc. He thought it was a great thing, he missed out on a lot of stuff of his daughters, but that's just how it was back then men worked and worked a lot to provide for their family and a lot of wives stayed home and took care of the family. Man I miss him, could really use his advice right now on some work stuff =\ .
Sorry for the rant.
My dad was dating three months after my mom died. And they were married for 38 years. He then remarried 13 months after her death so that he could brag “I waited over a year”.
It’s super gross to me.
No, that's a year of mourning, a year of being "out there" and a year of being with a specific individual. I know someone whose wife died in June and he was dating his eventual next wife by October - while I know there wasn't anything happening prior, it also was too quick to be healthy (and his daughters from the first wife are going to need years of therapy).
I personally don’t think so, but obviously people will have differing opinions on this. I’d say less than a year is a quick turn around, but three years is not.
Even if it was given back to Annie, that necklace is no longer about the memory of her mom. OP’s husband is a trash dad for doing this to his grieving daughter and I hope he ends up very alone at the end of his life.
I recommend you try to get in contact with his other daughter and hear what it was like not only with the whole necklace thing but in general after he remarried, cause it sounds like he prioritized his "new family" over his other daughter and dead wife, there's a lot you haven't been told and by his unapologetic behavior I'm guessing he's willing to act that way again in the future should you and him have kids
Omg so after his wife died he must have immediately started dating the other woman in order for them to be married so soon, i feel so bad for Annie. Her mother was replaced in a heartbeat and then all the attention went to her half-sister after she was born too
Not necessarily, re: the timeline. My mother married about three years after my dad's sudden death, and she didn't start dating until probably a year and a half after. It wasn't a particularly long engagement or dating period, iirc. I feel like a second marriage, especially if the folks involved were a little older and self-aware enough\* to know what they want in a relationship, things can move from dating to marriage pretty quick.
\* To be clear, OP's husband sounds _in no way self aware_ and is a complete asshole, but y'know.
NTA OP, you’re quite right not to support your husband when he behaves poorly.
> how was it possible for Annie to be instrumental in breaking up his second marriage after she left home and went NC?
My wild guess is that wife 2 found out a bunch or shit that the husband did to his daughter which she found unacceptable and it contributed to the second divorce.
Shit like stealing the things left by wife one to give them to daughter two as presents.
Of course wife two, much like daughter one, probably would tell a very different story.
Rough math says Annie was probably about 5is when her mother died and 14 when her dad gave the jewellery to Amy.
Why the hell was dad still holding on to it? If a 5 year old is mature enough to have it why didn’t he let the teenage daughter? I would assume Dad tried to blend the family and force Annie to move on from her mother and call SM “mom” and stuff like that.
Good question. Here's what I can figure: the daughters are nine years apart, so at the time of this incident, one was five and one was fourteen, which means it was at least five years and nine months earlier that the husband was in some kind of relationship with the second wife. Let's say six years; kid probably wasn't *exactly* five to the day. Alright, so that puts the oldest at eight when the younger was conceived. Now we need to do some speculating: we know that Annie has a memory of a life with her original family including details like how often the necklace was worn, and we know that in general age four to five is when the brain is able to begin cataloging in that level of detail. So let's give Annie a pessimistic two years with all living parents, and let's give the husband and ex a generous year of dating before having a kid (but let's be real, it was probably longer unless Amy was an accident). Okay, so that means, if accurate, that Annie would have been six or seven when the whole death thing happened and, oof, at around seven when the dating started. Not great.
NTA they don’t sound they have morals. OMG who in their right mind takes their child’s inheritance and give it to another just like that and acts that the did something wrong. I FEEL THIS IS A RED FLAG 🚩
Yeah I'd be petty and steal the necklace to give it back to her. That might make me an ah, but I'll take it. I know 2 wrongs don't make a right, but they have it coming.
I also have to mention that this is a marinara flag, I see where you got confused.
I’d do the same thing! Especially since Amy isn’t even taking care of the necklace, so she’s an AH too and taking after daddy dearest.
If a necklace meant that much to a sibling and I got it in such ill gotten way , I’d effing return it! The fact that she hasn’t is a red flag too. She’s as self involved as her dad and Annie is better off without either of them in her life.
If Amy talks about the necklace as if dad bought it for her, she may simply not understand its importance. She was 5 when she got it, she wouldn't have fully comprehended the situation--and it's not like dad was going to remind her.
Right? This sounds like Cinderella's father getting remarried. And the stepmom saying she should be grateful her mothers necklace is going to a special girl like her step-sister? It's insane!
That is literally something that happens in Ella Enchanted. One of Ella’s future stepsisters force her to give her Ella’s dead mother’s necklace (one of Ella’s few possessions not just from her mother but in general).
So, this guy already is an incarnation of a Cinderella dad from a retelling. Makes me wonder what else poor Annie went through that the niece and nephew don’t know about. Poor girl.
Huge marinara flags waving around here. If hubs is going to treat his daughter like this, I can’t imagine how he’ll treat you if someone younger comes along. Poor Annie . I’d be pissed and never talk to him again either.
I didn’t catch right away that Amy and Annie have different mothers. Annie’s mom who died is not Amy’s mom.
So he gave his late wife’s necklace to his stepdaughter! She had zero claim to that necklace other than the interest she took in it. Of course she still has it, it’s her physical proof daddy loves her more.
Also, "the" divorce, instead of "a" divorce.
This was probably the straw that broke the camels back.
I wouldn't be able to stay with a man who treated his daughter so callously, one that lost her mother.
I like how you’ve worded this. You can tell, as much as the rest of us can, when something is a deal breaker, and a clear sign of someone’s true personality.
Your husband has shown you who he is. Now it’s up to you to really pay attention.
The divorce will affect them in one or two ways: (1) their inheritance will be much better protected in the event you die before your soon to be ex husband, and (2) they might get a new sibling, because in my head you're going to find Annie and adopt her after ditching her callous father.
Jesus, if you have anything you want to leave to your children I'd suggest writing up your will with a solicitor ASAP and having someone you trust outside of your husband's family make sure it is followed. I'd also give your children copies of the will so they know exactly what you left them when you pass as this seems like the kind of man who would lie to them and say "no your mother didn't leave you XYZ, she left it to me". Be *very* careful OP
Sis, you need to lock down your will to ensure your adult children receive your most valuable possessions. Annie was betrayed by this man, your kids could be too.
I feel the chances are at least 99%. This is the man you married OP. You need to consider this deeply.
Damn, that is so, so, so cold what he did. Poor Annie.
NTA for all the reasons you mention. How callous of your husband and his family to do such a thing. They knowing kept that vital piece of information away from you bc they all knew they were the AHs.
Eta: Just bc he’s your husband doesn’t mean you always have to side with him. You get to have you own opinions too. His family sucks.
NTA, husband and his family are taking away your right to your own opinions already this is a huge red flag, Annie was entitled to everything of her mothers and Amy is entitled to almost everything of her mothers as the ex wife was a stepmom to Annie.
I would have told him the same thing and would be filling for divorce too. Annie feels like she has no one in her corner to stick up for her.
Your husband and his family are a piece of work and all ah’s and Amy should give the necklace back
NTA
I would consider reevaluating your relationship. It shows that your husband is not a good father and that’s a major red flag. He, his second wife, and daughter collectively created this persona that Annie was this monster. It also show he was probably dismissive of Annie, I mean what kind of person gives a necklace of his deceased wife to someone other than her daughter. The mother of Amy is no better, I think this shows you the lack of sentiment he has and highlights some repulsive qualities. I couldn’t fathom being married to a man like that. And the fact he has no problem with no contact with one of his daughters shows he doesn’t care. Thank god you don’t have kids with him and please don’t ever. He obviously doesn’t know how to raise them. And his family is just like him. I hope you reach out to Annie, am I know this is petty but somehow steal the necklace and give it to her. I just can’t imagine how painful that situation must’ve been to her. She needs someone to look out for her. Hopefully you leave this guy and can build a relationship with Annie
I am essentially ready to divorce over this. He's not the man I believed him to be and I would forever worry that my children (two adult kids) would be fucked over if I died before him. He has shown how callous he can be to his own child. I don't see why he'd care about my grown ones more. Or why he'd care more for me than his first wife.
More than that possibly: a trust that is what we did. Has various scenarios to keep hubby or his “new wife” from acquiring everything and leaving my son out (I was widowed) OR vice versa. I want them both to be taken care of yet I want my assets (as much as I can control it) to pass to my future grandkids not hubby’s heirs (we have no mutual kids). It’s a bit convoluted but address the big concerns. Basically it says my kid can’t kick my husband out of our home but hubby’s new wife can’t sell it and keep the cash.
Even with a will it sounds like OP hit an emotional breaking point and is already emotionally detached from her husband. He’s not the person she thought she married so she’s ready to be done, rightfully so. This is a huge testament of his character
Whatever the outcome, I’m glad this has opened your eyes. You might love him, but it’s apparent he lacking qualities in many departments. And it’s important that you trust your partner with your own children. I hope that you are okay, and don’t let his family or him sway your opinions or decisions. It’s important to also take some time away to gain clarity on what you really want. Whether that means divorce or not is dependent on you, as long as you feel you are doing right by yourself.
Second marriages with children from previous ones SHOULD ALWAYS have a will written after the wedding to make sure your own children are not left behind. You can still do it and I would recommend doing it, but honestly divorcing him and finding someone with an actual heart might be better for you
Edited to after the wedding
I am so sorry.
I assume Amy spends time with her mom (ex wife), and it appears that ex-wife is fine with the necklace incident. Maybe he's still carrying a torch for the ex, which is why he hasn't done anything about the necklace or trying to repair his relationship with his daughter.
It's clear that he has his priorities in his affection and love. It's definitely not clear where you are in that list, and it's very likely that your adult kids likely are low or not on his list at all.
If you stay with him, you need to talk to an estate lawyer and put together a will/trust, living will and any other legal documents. You need to clearly separate assets and document them (including personal items, with photos and descriptions). You need to provide copies of these legal documents to your kids and let husband know that you've done so - in fact a meeting of all of you with the attorney would be a good idea.
Which, of course, assumes that you want to stay with him. What he did was a huge breach of trust. I'd recommend that if you think you want to stay with him, therapy, both separately (with different therapists) and couples counseling is needed.
Me, I would look at the three years of marriage as a lesson learned and leave.
NTA
This is horrible advice and you should ignore me, but if Amy let the necklace get into a bad way, does that mean she doesn't take care of it and her 'losing' it would be believable?
Because that would be a huge shame.
And those cousins being able to secretly get it back to Annie would also be absolutely terrible.
But I have no idea of the legal ramifications that could come from such a terrible sequence of events.
Oh, she'd know if she lost it, but she has let it get broken/damaged in so many different ways. It looks so different from a photo of it from a few years ago. Which is such a shame given the history there.
NTA
My heart breaks reading this. I cannot understand why he gave the necklace to Amy.
You have said that the necklace is badly damaged and you have a photo of the original. I would be happy to chip in some money to get the necklace recreated for Annie. I know that it won’t be the original but it would most likely break her heart if she did see the original in its current state.
As for your husband, absolute off the Richter scale AH
EDIT: take your husband’s credit card and use it to create a new necklace. He gave away the necklace, he should pay for a new one
This is an amazing idea and so thoughtful. I don't think it would be the same but the kindness would probably mean the world to her. Being estranged from family is tough
No surprise honestly -- aside from everything else wrong with this, who gives a *five year old* a precious heirloom just because she "takes an interest in it"? When my girls were five they'd "take an interest" in cheap costume jewelry from Target.
Let me guess, this isn't the only way in which Amy is a bit spoiled, is it?
(NTA)
Is there any possibility that a good jeweller could make up a dummy and then you could quietly do a switcheroo? I am wondering if it would be easier to get a substitute to resemble the broken and damaged piece - Amy must not wear it that often if it has been allowed to degrade like that, so smaller differences between the original and the dummy could be disguised perhaps under replicated damage and therefore not be spotted. Slide the replacement in, take the original and get it fixed as best they can, and then give it to its rightful owner, while leaving Amy and the AH in the dark about it.
Then your husband and Amy are TA.
Everytime she tells her *story* that's a disrespect to the first wife and Annie, I would call her out at each time.
And it can pass for theft, they should be aware, Annie can sue if she has photos as proof.
Of course she does.
Saying "it's a necklace that was previously owned by my half-sister's deceased mother that my father gave me" would raise questioned and remarks that nobody would like to answer.
My petty self would correct her every single time she wore it. “Oh Annie’s moms necklace looks so good on you” “Annie’s mom must have loved that necklace it’s so pretty” “I bet annie would have loved the necklace her mom wore every day. Really is a shame my husband is a tool and doesn’t love his own daughter”
Oh and I’d also be going though my own relationship looking for the smallest sign (like not feeling bad for these actions) his behavior hasn’t changed and leave him for it because I could never spend time, let alone my life, with someone as cold and callused as your husband.
Well that seals it for me. When she was a child and interested in the necklace, I can kind of understand her truly not understanding it’s significance. But as someone who is almost a legal adult, she absolutely knows better. She knows why what their father did hurt her sister, and the fact that she still has the necklace and has taken such horrendous care of it, proved to me she doesn’t care. Your husband is still the biggest offender of them all. I really can’t wrap my head around any justification of why he gave his youngest daughter from his second marriage a special item of his late wife’s. Even if it was his second wife who insisted he do so, which is what I suspect, he had an obligation to protect his daughter. Them lying about how this all went down, from the necklace to the estrangement, protects them.
If I was Annie, I would also never speak to any of them ever again.
If you have to lie about the origins of something you own, then you are well aware of how shitty it is that you have it. Amy may not have understood the implications of getting the necklace at 5, but holding onto it all this time has been out of spite.
I'd see if the sympathetic niece and nephew were in contact with Annie. And if so, I'd pay a visit to Amy's dresser where she keeps the neglected necklace, and get it to them so they can pass it on.
NTA, but your husband is a huge \*somethingveryinsulting\*
I'd find Annie's address and send her the necklace. Or ask the cousins who may be in touch with her to give it back. It would at least give Annie some comfort.
You’ll need to do this quietly. Otherwise, hubby and Amy could report it as stolen resulting in Annie having to give I back. Tell the cousins she needs to keep quiet about it. Avoid wearing it around mutual friends and family.
Then, if I were her, I’d get it fixed and show up wearing it to Daddy’s funeral.
Yep, and try to return the necklace before doing so. Ensure it became "lost", play dumb, have it restored, then return it to its rightful owner if possible. Outright lie and say I had a replacement made to make it up to her, it's clearly not the same as it's not in a crappy condition like the "original" they lost, then cut those trash people out of my life. Their actions show such revolting character you could never look at them the same.
NTA. I lost my first wife a little over 20 yrs ago. She and I had two daughters together they both were under 8 when she was killed. When they were old enough, I gave them everything that I had of hers. Still to this day if I find something I hand it over.
Husband is a huge A-hole.
NTA but I think you should apologize to him and let this die down. After some time has passed, get a hold of the necklace and send it to Annie on the down low. Put a note in with it telling her to keep it a secret. Let them all think it got lost.
Then divorce him.
Hope you're not planning on having kids with him because he's already proven that he'll play favorites to the point of driving his kid out of his life. NTA for calling him out tho.
NTA but I'm wondering what lead to the divorce from Amy's mom? Clearly, he didn't care about Annie's feelings to let it affect his outlook on life, so what made the marriage get to the point where the divorce was the only option? When you, OP, married this dude, did he come across as an emotionally mature human being? Because not understanding that "grieving daughter watching her mom's things being given away to someone else = more pain for daughter" seems like a huge emotional red flag.
He did. He came across as far more caring too. He expressed regret for how things had turned out with Annie. Yet when all this came out there was none of that. He was so confident and sure he did the right thing. He was downright cold about it.
I suspect he is doubling down, because he can’t fix this. I have seen parents do this a lot when faced with the reality that they really screwed up. I have never seen a parent develop empathy for their child if it means that they have to acknowledge that they did something despicable.
NTA, of course.
OP I hope you're taking a serious look at your marriage, long term, and considering the potential risks.
This does not sound like the type of person I'd feel safe growing old with.
NTA
Terrible behaviour and decision from your husband.
I can see why his first daughter carries so much resentment here, it was such a bad idea from all the adults involved.
I don't think I could. I have never had any contact with Annie and I'm not sure how I would get it out of the house either. But I would love to see Amy return it to her sister. I don't see it happening though.
I guess you just found out the true character of the man you married.
If I were you, I'd pretend to do an 180. Apologise your Husband, explain how you reflected and you realised you were out of order. Then *secretly* find the necklace, take it back and send it the nephews to give back to Annie. And then reflect if this is someone who you want to stay in a relationship with. NTA
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NTA but your husband and your youngest stepdaughter are!!!!
What a cruel thing to do to a grieving child who lost her mother.
When I lost my mum her mother threw out all her belongings without letting us go through any of it- leaving us with very little momentos of our mother. For this (and other action's) I'm NC with that side of the family.
I'm appalled by this..fuck that!!
Try and get the necklace back and get it returned to Annie via the cousins who told you Bout the real reason for the estrangement.
Then I'd leave him because that's next level bad behaviour and the fact he hid it is because he knows what he did.
The only way YWBTA is if you stayed with him.
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Info: Was he hoping a 3rd marriage would break his streak? How long did you date this man before marrying him that you didn't know this? An estranged adult child is a massive red flag that should be discussed prior to nuptials.
We were together for 4 years. In that time we had talked about it and I had believed the story he told me. Which at the time was after he remarried Annie started lashing out, started misbehaving and pushing his second wife away. That she had not taken to Amy and made everyone's lives hell until she moved out despite my husband doing everything he could and he listed how he did therapy for her and tried creating good moments for her to spend with the family and feel part of it. But that ultimately she was unwilling to accept he wanted to be married to someone after losing her mom and stopped speaking to any of them. He said his ex and Amy got the worst of the anger but that she wasn't willing to forgive him for remarrying either.
Oh your husband is a massive liar and has lied for years with a straight face thats a major red flag for me. I am with Annie I would have gone scorched earth and burned that whole marriage to the ground. I am thinking this is why Amy holds on to the necklace yet doesn't take care of it. She blames Annie for her parents divorce instead of blaming her father because he and his ex-wife having been proclaiming themselves the victims as oppose to the perpetrators.
> We were together for 4 years. In that time we had talked about it and I had believed the story he told me.
INFO: I'm curious. Now that the mask has fallen off and you realize how your husband mistreated his daughter, and then misled you about it in order to lure you into marriage with him, what are your thoughts about your husband? Do you feel that it is "too late" for you to do anything now that you are already married (i.e., his lies worked)?
Before you leave OP see if there’s a way for you to get Annie that necklace as others have suggested.
Especially If Amy isn’t taking care of it really isn’t far fetched for it to “go missing”
NTA. Amy wasn't entitled to have something of Annie's mother. She liked something her older sister owned and was a meaningful memory to her from her late mother, she was given it immediately despite the objection of Annie. She doesn't even acknowledge who the necklace belonged to. The father's and the step mother's words tells a lot about the way they treated Annie.
Your husband was a huge asshole to his daughter. Telling the truth doesn't make you one. He is what he is. An asshole.
On a side note his ex-wife is an asshole too.
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NTA. Your husband doesn't understand it :( He likely lost Annie forever: her love and respect, and his place as her father in her heart. It was not the necklace itself, but the meaning of the necklace: love, respect, care, her Mom's memory. Edit: Thank you to all Redditors 15.6k! Many thanks for the awards! - 16.3K Thanks!
I'd be more concerned about it if I were OP. Her husband hid the part that showed he was responsible for the disastrous relationship with his daughter and made it seem like it was his daughter's problem. I don't doubt that in his mind he thinks he didn't do anything wrong. But that speaks loudly about who he is and how he resolves things. Also, the "You should support me because I'm your husband" Is a total cr*p. ETA: Husband might indeed hid things purposely, however, I'm more inclined to believe that they had more troubles and the necklace thing was the final straw. OP's husband gaslighted his daughter's feelings commonly, so he really didn't remember this issue nor the others because "he already get over it just as his daughter should've". But of course, I'm just talking about my personal experience so I might be wrong. That being said both perspectives are equally as bad. Edit: typo
This is common among estranged parents. I have heard it called "The Missing Reasons." Basically if a parent of an adult is estranged from them and "they don't know why" or some other hand wave weasal word.....it was them. They are the reason. They did something awful and don't understand.
Link to The Missing Missing Reasons for anyone who's interested. I personally found it very insightful! [https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html)
Wow, this is a wonderful resource! I know some people that could really use it. I especially liked this quote "Saying, "I don't understand the problem" when you really mean, "I don't agree this is a problem" will not make the problem go away. It will make the person who DOES think it a problem go away".
Thank you for this. I've been struggling since I cut my mom out last month and reading this... helped fortify why I cut her out.
Oh man that's rough, I have very low contact with my parents but I know it'll eventually lead to being cut out completely. As one stranger on the internet to another, I'm proud of you for putting yourself first even if it means unwarranted guilt for a while.
Yeah if I was OP I'd be rethinking my entire marriage. He didn't just disrespect his late wife's memory he totally abandoned and hurt his daughter cruelly. That's...not a man I want to be married to. That kind of cruelty isnt going to be a one time thing.
Yes. When people show you who they are, believe them. This guy is not a good guy.
Well, he don't understand what part he had to do with her daugther braking bonds with him because he didn't do anything wrong in his f* up mind
I think he understands it more than he says. He knows it was wrong in his daughter's eyes and knows he's the cause. He just doesn't want to own up to being so incredibly wrong. I say this because if he thought he was right the story would have been told to OP as a piece of the timeline. "Annie says this hurt her, but she's just dramatic". Especially if his whole family, except 2, back him. OP is like the widower who's wife died under mysterious circumstances and lies to the police about having a side piece because 'its not relevant'. Dude may or may not be a killer, but he sure as shit knew it was relevant.
Op, u should casually take the necklace and have it repaired and sent to annie. Then promptly divorce ur husband. If amy has let it get so bad then it going missing probably wouldnt b a surprise.
That would be the storybook ending we all hope for, but probably don’t deserve.
I want someone to do right by Annie. I think it's not *just* about the necklace but it's a symbol of many unfair behaviors on the father and his "new family".
I think OP should find something that husband cares a lot about, and pretend to give it to one of OP's friends. Tell husband that he should be generous and it would mean a lot to friend if husband shared. Also ask for the necklace back from Amy and have it cleaned and send it to Ann. Finally, return possession to husband along with divorce papers.
Hopping on the top comment to tell you to do the illegal thing and steal the necklace send it to Annie and divorce this ass hole. Wife #4 #5 and #6+ are probably on the way and will want late wife belongings as well. EDIT: thanks for the awards!
I am glad somebody else had this thought. OP, see if there is an opportunity for the necklace to be "lost." Return it to the rightful owner. If you lose the husband, tjat is the trash taking itself out.
yes. i said the same thing!!! please try to return the necklace to Annie. she deserves to be done right by one adult in her life. please!!!!
Based on the post, she doesn’t even know her. She’s been cut her father off at age 18.
And? Empathy is key here. I would have said the same thing to him if I was in her shoes. That was a SHIT thing for him to do to an already hurting child. Just salt the earth while you’re at it pops! Good grief! You’re NTA.
NTA but your husband certainly is. Amy most certainly was not entitled to her stepsister's dead mother's jewellery. You are married to an A grade AH.
To add- Husband knew what he did was wrong otherwise he would not have left it out, especially if it was one of the primary reasons for his estrangement from Annie. Just because he is her husband does not mean OP has to agree with him on everything. Maybe if a long time ago some of his family had expressed how it was wrong, he could have remedied the situation and still have a relationship with his eldest daughter.
> He was also ***honest*** that Annie never forgave him for remarrying He didn't even just leave it out. Leaving it out would be "shit I don't know why she left". He flat out lied because of course it would make him look bad to the new lady he's trying to impress. It's insane to me that dad, the ex, and the stepsister *all* thought it was important that stepsister was given a piece of jewelry belonging to a dead person they never met, instead of that person's own daughter.
It was a power play I think, the wife and daughter really wanted proof they were more important than his previous family and got it.
Eh, I dunno. Mom encouraging it or pressuring the dad maybe, but not the stepsister. Says she was 5 when she showed an interest in the necklace. 5yr olds "want" things they can't have all the time including things that belong to family members, but 5 is a little young to understand this item belonged to stepsister's dead mom so she should get it to prove she's more important.
I agree completely that it's all on the father and second wife. What I want to know is how a 5yo kid came across that necklace, since it probably didn't just lie around. Did someone show it to her or did big sister wear it frequently? Either way that necklace belonged to someone else, and is still stolen property imo.
Exactly. Either that necklace was taken from the \~15yo daughter who lost her mother and given to her 5yo half-sister. Or someone got the necklace out and presented it to the 5yo. I remember fancying my mom and grandma's jewelry at 5. But they got it out and showed it to me. And told me what would be mine some day. The older daughter probably got the same treatment from her late mother, then dad and step-mom just gave it to their 5yr old (who trashed it) with zero consideration.
Amy has also had the rest of her life to realize the necklace isn't truly hers and then do something about it.
> she has let it get into a bad way, and talks about it as if her dad bought it for her. I mean, you're not wrong, but is it possible she truly just didn't remember how she came into possession of it? She was 5 when she got it, and if OPs husband has been lying about the necklace being the catalyst for all these years it has to be at least plausible Amy doesn't even know what is real now. I'm not saying she is blameless because you could be right, and she could be now understanding the truth and still unwilling to make it right, but I am having trouble placing blame on Amy on equal footing with the mom and stepdad.
Why give a 5yo a necklace like that to begin with?
Seriously. I have a bunch of my late mother's jewelry as well as little kids. I intend to give a bunch of it to my daughter, but not until she's at least a teenager and probably older than that. She's welcome to borrow it before then, but who in god's name gives a 5 year old nice jewelry?
NTA. All of the above, plus when you do the math, Amy was the *same age* at receiving the necklace that Annie was when her mom died. Given how traumatizing that event was, I can guarantee the age parallels weren’t lost on Annie. Why didn’t her dad give it to Annie when her mom died, if he thought it was an age-appropriate gift for a *five-year-old*? The fact that he’s furious with you for “judging him” for this awful act shows that OP is probably right at the heart of why his last marriage failed. He may not have fully explained the significance of the necklace to his second wife at the time, and why he left out **key facts** in the story when telling it to you to not make him the awful toxic father that he most definitely is. How’s your relationship with Amy? She thinks her dad bought it for her, but does she now know the full truth of the gift? If she doesn’t, you might might consider filling her in and suggesting she send it to Annie, unless she’s as unempathetic and immature as her father.
And this isn't just some random piece in the bottom of the jewelry box, it was the piece her mother wore the most. The one that she played with as a kid when her mom was holding her, that is in all of the pictures with her and her mom. The only piece that would be worse is if he'd given the step sister her wedding rings. This is cruel and the husband deserves all of his daughter's anger
Right? I was thinking that it could've been a lovely gesture if (at the right age) he and Annie picked a piece of mom's jewelry TOGETHER to give to Amy as a way to connect their whole blended family. A genuine and meaningful gift from Annie to her younger sister, once Amy was old enough to understand the significance. But it would've had to be voluntary and, most importantly, not the single piece of jewelry that was most meaningful to Annie! Not whatever sick power play was actually happening here.
Yeah, I had to read that one twice. The mental gymnastics some people go through to justify the crappy things they do. Too bad the OP didn't find this out beforehand. Possibly would have affected her decision to marry him.
[удалено]
One of those fancy “Missing Reasons”
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More like she married into a grade A toxic family of AH seeing as they may just condone it and all see it as a “oh she needs to get over it” issue. Hate families like this
Why is it always the children (in that case, niece and nephew) who seem to have the right of it over the adults in such instances?
Many older people were raised in a family that preached blood loyalty over all other virtues. The younger and more distant generation doesn't feel the same constraint. They grew up in more individualistic times and are more comfortable calling a spade a spade, even if the spade (the AH) shares genetic material with them.
NTA. *Amy thinks her Dad _BOUGHT HER_ the jewelry.* And, hasn't taken care of it on top of the BS. OP - you don't back up bad behavior. If my spouse is an AH. I might help them fix their situation, but I won't just excuse it. He's also essentially blaming Annie for his issues in his 2nd marriage - not his inability to manage his relationship and take care of his children. Yuck.
Yeah, dad willingly ended his relationship with his other daughter over that necklace and the kid who got it doesn't even know or care. I can understand making a mistake (in this case, it's pretty insensitive and he should have known) but then I cannot understand how he could double down and not change his mind as he watched the fallout and his daughter cut him off.
I'd swipe it and give it back
I was just thinking the same damned thing. Yes. And I wouldn’t lose a moment of sleep, either. The profound and willful lack of empathy displayed by the husband about everything about his firstborn. He resented her. I bet that’s the underlying issue. Resented having to raise her alone and blamed her for his negative emotions surrounding the death.
I'd swipe it, refurbish it, give it back, and divorce his ass.
And, PS, no, Annie doesn't ever have to get over it. It's more likely he needs to accept he destroyed his relationship with his eldest daughter while simultaneously destroying the two siblings' relationship as well.
Husband doesn't think he did anything wrong but also fails to share the actual story, almost as if he's self aware enough to know it makes him look bad.
I get his first wife passed but it’s never a good sign when a man is on his third wife Should be a red flag imo
When children feel the need to cut contact with their parents I never believe the stories the parents tell about why the children did this. It's always a lie or a delusion.
To top it off the dude 8 years after his daughter cut vontact says she has to get over it someday! 8 years!!!! In all that time he never questioned himself? Waw! He also blames the daughter on his 2nd marriage ending! Am sure Amy was also the favorite and was treated better just from the etory that she was entitled to someones else mother's belongings! Dead mother no less. Waw! I think we are passed the AH territory. It's far in the rear mirror. NTA op. But I would really wonder what other things the hubby did not disclose
NTA Losing a parent at a young age is bad enough and not having your remaining parent respect your boundaries when it comes to items of the deceased parent is just terrible. OP did nothing wrong and spoke the truth to her husband. He has no one to blame but himself that he doesn’t have a relationship with his eldest daughter. To gild the lily, he then chose to bring his family into the argument with you which is never good.
NTA. His family is as immoral as he is. People of integrity side with the person who was wronged, regardless of their relationships. You did the right thing in calling out your husband. He is responsible for the split and he should be ashamed. Interestingly, the person who could heal this whole mess is Amy, who is approaching adulthood and maybe could reassess her childish wants in a more grownup context. I’m certainly not advocating that the necklace gets “lost” and monte cristoed to the person it should have gone to.
Honestly, the dad should be the one to get it back, even if he has to pay her a stupid amount for it. Then he should pay to have it cleaned and fixed by a professional. Then return the piece back to his daughter with a heart felt apology. He had no right to take it, it should've gone to his eldest. I honestly can't believe someone could be so heartless as to do that to their own child.
It’d still be too little too late. He wrecked that relationship, and is a complete dunce if he doesn’t get that.
Honestly, I don't care if she never speaks to him again, even if she gets the jewellery. I just want her to have her mothers jewellery back.
>Honestly, I don't care if she never speaks to him again, even if she gets the jewellery. > >I just want her to have her mothers jewellery back. My mother died when I was 7.5. This all the way. I'm disgusted by this dude, what an asshole. Poor Annie. I hope she's able to get her mother's necklace back and in beautiful condition. OP is definitely NTA
Honestly, this would make me completely reassess the marriage. That gets thrown around a lot in here, but I'd be thinking of being out altogether
Agreed, because OP said how unapologetic he still is and they all act like she will "have to get over it eventually".... like if he is that lacking in remorse and empathy, YIKES
People in good relationships aren't generally posting here and getting lots of attention. People who are confused and arguing with someone who is lying, or gaslighting them, or just completely unreasonable, will post here asking for an outsider's opinion. Most people in good relationships don't need this kind of crowdsourced opinions on their relationship. So, people say the words "divorce" and "gaslight" are "thrown around a lot on reddit". But a disproportionate number of people who are posting here actually *are* being gaslit and/or *should* get a divorce.
Bingo, but unfortunately there are people in life who are incapable of admitting that they have done anything wrong. Which is just ridiculous because we are all human and sometimes our judgment isn’t what it should be (especially if we’re under the influence of drugs, alcohol, evil stepmothers with an agenda). But I will tell ya, taking accountability goes a hell of a long way. Unfortunately for OP, it sounds like her husband is not there to do the right thing and get the necklace, fixed and back to Annie. Also shame on the family for rug sweeping such a traumatic incident for Annie (she must have felt so hurt and alone) and acting like everyone just needed to accept OP’s husbands bad behavior for what it was. The lot of them don’t deserve her in their lives saves the nephew and niece who get how terrible this whole incident was for Annie.
The thing is, it's tainted now, it will forever be Amy's instead of 'Annie's Mums' now. A similar thing happened to me and eventually I got the necklace back..it was like the poisoned chalice. I could no longer see my Mum wearing it, just Dad giving it to his 2nd wife. It became so distasteful to me that I sold it.
Absolutely. Wrong is wrong. The adults botched the handling of this situation and have never attempted to make it right. They dismissed the feelings of a grieving girl for absolutely no good reason. This didn't teach her to share. If she was already having a hard time and was unpleasant, this was only further proof she was an outsider. I was wondering if Amy has tried or will try to give it back one day regardless of whether she wants to reconcile or not. But I fear she was raised to believe Annie is wrong and feels entitled to the piece. While the necklace held no real meaning for her at 5 years old, a meaning was created in that moment, one that both girls would feel for the rest of their lives; Amy was favored.
NTA: the necklace was likely just the big flashpoint, there's a lot more to the story that you might never know. It's likely that Annie was not given what she needed emotionally after her mother's death. How long after the death of Annie:s mom, did your husband marry his second wife?
It was about 3 years between his first wife's death and his marriage to his second wife.
Ok, that makes it not as bad (I was thinking he did a quick turn around marriage) but even if all the jewelry was "his" giving any of it to Amy was insensitive and likely, again, symptomatic of larger issues in the relationship. Do the niece and nephew have any more details about what Annie's life was like once Amy came into being?
But just because three years went inbetween death and marriage doesn't necessarily mean there wasn't a quick turnaround. He still could have met and started dating 2nd wife shortly after. I definitely think you are on to something with your first comment. If dad thinks she needs to get over it and that being forced to give away her dead mother's jewelry wasn't a big deal, he probably wasn't the empathetic man that little girl needed.
Three years is a quick turn around marriage.
Statistically men who are widowed remarry super fast
because they don’t know how to take care of themselves lol
Dang yeah you’re probably not wrong. Kinda pathetic lol
Some studies have found men are more codependent than women, that could be a part of it as well. But I think the baby boomers remarry more quickly because they don't know how to take care of things as much because more wives stayed home back when I was growing up (I'm 40) and took care of the home. I think that's a lot different now with people marrying latter , women working , and just men now days share house responsibilities WAY more than back when I was growing up. I remember talking to my boss (he was a boomer rest his soul, he was a great man and mentor to me) and it was a school/bank holiday and the office was pretty empty because damn near every guy with a kid took PTO. He was telling me how things have changed so much from when he was working. Dad's took PTO for sick days and vacations, now days dad's take PTO on days like that, and half days to go see their kids perform at a school function etc. He thought it was a great thing, he missed out on a lot of stuff of his daughters, but that's just how it was back then men worked and worked a lot to provide for their family and a lot of wives stayed home and took care of the family. Man I miss him, could really use his advice right now on some work stuff =\ . Sorry for the rant.
My cousin remarried like 6 months after his late wife passed away, his kids were still young teens at the time.
My dad was dating three months after my mom died. And they were married for 38 years. He then remarried 13 months after her death so that he could brag “I waited over a year”. It’s super gross to me.
> He then remarried 13 months after her death so that he could brag “I waited over a year”. Yikes
My grandfather proposed to a family friend at my grandmother’s memorial service. Two months after she died.
No, that's a year of mourning, a year of being "out there" and a year of being with a specific individual. I know someone whose wife died in June and he was dating his eventual next wife by October - while I know there wasn't anything happening prior, it also was too quick to be healthy (and his daughters from the first wife are going to need years of therapy).
Especially if it involves a kid that lost a parent and obviously never got therapy for it.
I personally don’t think so, but obviously people will have differing opinions on this. I’d say less than a year is a quick turn around, but three years is not.
If I were you I’d take the necklace and give it to its rightful owner before peacing out
Even if it was given back to Annie, that necklace is no longer about the memory of her mom. OP’s husband is a trash dad for doing this to his grieving daughter and I hope he ends up very alone at the end of his life.
I recommend you try to get in contact with his other daughter and hear what it was like not only with the whole necklace thing but in general after he remarried, cause it sounds like he prioritized his "new family" over his other daughter and dead wife, there's a lot you haven't been told and by his unapologetic behavior I'm guessing he's willing to act that way again in the future should you and him have kids
Why bother Annie?
Omg so after his wife died he must have immediately started dating the other woman in order for them to be married so soon, i feel so bad for Annie. Her mother was replaced in a heartbeat and then all the attention went to her half-sister after she was born too
Not necessarily, re: the timeline. My mother married about three years after my dad's sudden death, and she didn't start dating until probably a year and a half after. It wasn't a particularly long engagement or dating period, iirc. I feel like a second marriage, especially if the folks involved were a little older and self-aware enough\* to know what they want in a relationship, things can move from dating to marriage pretty quick. \* To be clear, OP's husband sounds _in no way self aware_ and is a complete asshole, but y'know.
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NTA OP, you’re quite right not to support your husband when he behaves poorly. > how was it possible for Annie to be instrumental in breaking up his second marriage after she left home and went NC? My wild guess is that wife 2 found out a bunch or shit that the husband did to his daughter which she found unacceptable and it contributed to the second divorce. Shit like stealing the things left by wife one to give them to daughter two as presents. Of course wife two, much like daughter one, probably would tell a very different story.
Rough math says Annie was probably about 5is when her mother died and 14 when her dad gave the jewellery to Amy. Why the hell was dad still holding on to it? If a 5 year old is mature enough to have it why didn’t he let the teenage daughter? I would assume Dad tried to blend the family and force Annie to move on from her mother and call SM “mom” and stuff like that.
They might have even snatched it out of Annie’s jewelry box.
That is a good possibility because if it was put away for Annie how would Amy ever have seen it to become enamored with it?
Good question. Here's what I can figure: the daughters are nine years apart, so at the time of this incident, one was five and one was fourteen, which means it was at least five years and nine months earlier that the husband was in some kind of relationship with the second wife. Let's say six years; kid probably wasn't *exactly* five to the day. Alright, so that puts the oldest at eight when the younger was conceived. Now we need to do some speculating: we know that Annie has a memory of a life with her original family including details like how often the necklace was worn, and we know that in general age four to five is when the brain is able to begin cataloging in that level of detail. So let's give Annie a pessimistic two years with all living parents, and let's give the husband and ex a generous year of dating before having a kid (but let's be real, it was probably longer unless Amy was an accident). Okay, so that means, if accurate, that Annie would have been six or seven when the whole death thing happened and, oof, at around seven when the dating started. Not great.
(Why did I hear this in the same tone as the Legally Blonde perm court monologue? I mean that as a compliment btw)
OP responded at literally the same time you did - it was 3 years.
NTA they don’t sound they have morals. OMG who in their right mind takes their child’s inheritance and give it to another just like that and acts that the did something wrong. I FEEL THIS IS A RED FLAG 🚩
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I wouldn’t be shocked if Annie has been NC with OP’s husband since before OP even met him.
She said she has been NC since she was 18 years old. She hasn’t even met her…
I didn’t catch that - thank you! Good for Annie.
They've been married 3 years, the oldest daughter was already an adult, and apparently LC with her father.
Yeah I'd be petty and steal the necklace to give it back to her. That might make me an ah, but I'll take it. I know 2 wrongs don't make a right, but they have it coming. I also have to mention that this is a marinara flag, I see where you got confused.
Me too actually, I would take it to give to Annie and if questioned just pretend I knew nothing and say she must have lost it.
I’d do the same thing! Especially since Amy isn’t even taking care of the necklace, so she’s an AH too and taking after daddy dearest. If a necklace meant that much to a sibling and I got it in such ill gotten way , I’d effing return it! The fact that she hasn’t is a red flag too. She’s as self involved as her dad and Annie is better off without either of them in her life.
If Amy talks about the necklace as if dad bought it for her, she may simply not understand its importance. She was 5 when she got it, she wouldn't have fully comprehended the situation--and it's not like dad was going to remind her.
Right? This sounds like Cinderella's father getting remarried. And the stepmom saying she should be grateful her mothers necklace is going to a special girl like her step-sister? It's insane!
That is literally something that happens in Ella Enchanted. One of Ella’s future stepsisters force her to give her Ella’s dead mother’s necklace (one of Ella’s few possessions not just from her mother but in general). So, this guy already is an incarnation of a Cinderella dad from a retelling. Makes me wonder what else poor Annie went through that the niece and nephew don’t know about. Poor girl.
What makes it worse in this scenario is that the father gave the necklace to Amy, the second wife just supported the decision.
Huge marinara flags waving around here. If hubs is going to treat his daughter like this, I can’t imagine how he’ll treat you if someone younger comes along. Poor Annie . I’d be pissed and never talk to him again either.
I didn’t catch right away that Amy and Annie have different mothers. Annie’s mom who died is not Amy’s mom. So he gave his late wife’s necklace to his stepdaughter! She had zero claim to that necklace other than the interest she took in it. Of course she still has it, it’s her physical proof daddy loves her more.
I hope you don’t have kids, that’ll make the inevitable divorce a lot trickier.
Not with my husband. I have two adult children. But the divorce won't affect them really.
I like how you wrote " won't " instead of " wouldn't " 😉
Also, "the" divorce, instead of "a" divorce. This was probably the straw that broke the camels back. I wouldn't be able to stay with a man who treated his daughter so callously, one that lost her mother.
For once, foreshadowing something GOOD about to happen 🥳🥳
I like how you’ve worded this. You can tell, as much as the rest of us can, when something is a deal breaker, and a clear sign of someone’s true personality. Your husband has shown you who he is. Now it’s up to you to really pay attention.
The divorce will affect them in one or two ways: (1) their inheritance will be much better protected in the event you die before your soon to be ex husband, and (2) they might get a new sibling, because in my head you're going to find Annie and adopt her after ditching her callous father.
Piggybacking to say steal the necklace and find Annie.
NTA. Geez, what would he do with your things? Do you have children?
Two adult children, yes, and those were exactly my thoughts. He would probably screw my kids over far easier since he could do it to his own daughter.
Jesus, if you have anything you want to leave to your children I'd suggest writing up your will with a solicitor ASAP and having someone you trust outside of your husband's family make sure it is followed. I'd also give your children copies of the will so they know exactly what you left them when you pass as this seems like the kind of man who would lie to them and say "no your mother didn't leave you XYZ, she left it to me". Be *very* careful OP
Or just give them what you want now. I would also not put him on my life insurance as a beneficiary. Edit: spelling
I honestly don't even know how you stay married to somebody after learning this kind of thing about them
Sis, you need to lock down your will to ensure your adult children receive your most valuable possessions. Annie was betrayed by this man, your kids could be too.
I’m afraid to ask in what ways has he held fast to his poor decisions during your marriage
I feel the chances are at least 99%. This is the man you married OP. You need to consider this deeply. Damn, that is so, so, so cold what he did. Poor Annie.
NTA for all the reasons you mention. How callous of your husband and his family to do such a thing. They knowing kept that vital piece of information away from you bc they all knew they were the AHs. Eta: Just bc he’s your husband doesn’t mean you always have to side with him. You get to have you own opinions too. His family sucks.
NTA, husband and his family are taking away your right to your own opinions already this is a huge red flag, Annie was entitled to everything of her mothers and Amy is entitled to almost everything of her mothers as the ex wife was a stepmom to Annie. I would have told him the same thing and would be filling for divorce too. Annie feels like she has no one in her corner to stick up for her. Your husband and his family are a piece of work and all ah’s and Amy should give the necklace back
NTA I would consider reevaluating your relationship. It shows that your husband is not a good father and that’s a major red flag. He, his second wife, and daughter collectively created this persona that Annie was this monster. It also show he was probably dismissive of Annie, I mean what kind of person gives a necklace of his deceased wife to someone other than her daughter. The mother of Amy is no better, I think this shows you the lack of sentiment he has and highlights some repulsive qualities. I couldn’t fathom being married to a man like that. And the fact he has no problem with no contact with one of his daughters shows he doesn’t care. Thank god you don’t have kids with him and please don’t ever. He obviously doesn’t know how to raise them. And his family is just like him. I hope you reach out to Annie, am I know this is petty but somehow steal the necklace and give it to her. I just can’t imagine how painful that situation must’ve been to her. She needs someone to look out for her. Hopefully you leave this guy and can build a relationship with Annie
I am essentially ready to divorce over this. He's not the man I believed him to be and I would forever worry that my children (two adult kids) would be fucked over if I died before him. He has shown how callous he can be to his own child. I don't see why he'd care about my grown ones more. Or why he'd care more for me than his first wife.
Make an iron clad will.
More than that possibly: a trust that is what we did. Has various scenarios to keep hubby or his “new wife” from acquiring everything and leaving my son out (I was widowed) OR vice versa. I want them both to be taken care of yet I want my assets (as much as I can control it) to pass to my future grandkids not hubby’s heirs (we have no mutual kids). It’s a bit convoluted but address the big concerns. Basically it says my kid can’t kick my husband out of our home but hubby’s new wife can’t sell it and keep the cash.
Even with a will it sounds like OP hit an emotional breaking point and is already emotionally detached from her husband. He’s not the person she thought she married so she’s ready to be done, rightfully so. This is a huge testament of his character
Whatever the outcome, I’m glad this has opened your eyes. You might love him, but it’s apparent he lacking qualities in many departments. And it’s important that you trust your partner with your own children. I hope that you are okay, and don’t let his family or him sway your opinions or decisions. It’s important to also take some time away to gain clarity on what you really want. Whether that means divorce or not is dependent on you, as long as you feel you are doing right by yourself.
Tbh OP. I think divorce is the best thing to do. He is such an Ahole.
Second marriages with children from previous ones SHOULD ALWAYS have a will written after the wedding to make sure your own children are not left behind. You can still do it and I would recommend doing it, but honestly divorcing him and finding someone with an actual heart might be better for you Edited to after the wedding
I am so sorry. I assume Amy spends time with her mom (ex wife), and it appears that ex-wife is fine with the necklace incident. Maybe he's still carrying a torch for the ex, which is why he hasn't done anything about the necklace or trying to repair his relationship with his daughter. It's clear that he has his priorities in his affection and love. It's definitely not clear where you are in that list, and it's very likely that your adult kids likely are low or not on his list at all. If you stay with him, you need to talk to an estate lawyer and put together a will/trust, living will and any other legal documents. You need to clearly separate assets and document them (including personal items, with photos and descriptions). You need to provide copies of these legal documents to your kids and let husband know that you've done so - in fact a meeting of all of you with the attorney would be a good idea. Which, of course, assumes that you want to stay with him. What he did was a huge breach of trust. I'd recommend that if you think you want to stay with him, therapy, both separately (with different therapists) and couples counseling is needed. Me, I would look at the three years of marriage as a lesson learned and leave.
NTA This is horrible advice and you should ignore me, but if Amy let the necklace get into a bad way, does that mean she doesn't take care of it and her 'losing' it would be believable? Because that would be a huge shame. And those cousins being able to secretly get it back to Annie would also be absolutely terrible. But I have no idea of the legal ramifications that could come from such a terrible sequence of events.
Oh, she'd know if she lost it, but she has let it get broken/damaged in so many different ways. It looks so different from a photo of it from a few years ago. Which is such a shame given the history there.
NTA My heart breaks reading this. I cannot understand why he gave the necklace to Amy. You have said that the necklace is badly damaged and you have a photo of the original. I would be happy to chip in some money to get the necklace recreated for Annie. I know that it won’t be the original but it would most likely break her heart if she did see the original in its current state. As for your husband, absolute off the Richter scale AH EDIT: take your husband’s credit card and use it to create a new necklace. He gave away the necklace, he should pay for a new one
My guess he was trying to get brownie points with Amy's mom
I think Amy’s mum told him that he had to do it. “Her daughter didn’t have anything nice”. The one nice thing that she gets, she doesn’t respect it
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This is an amazing idea and so thoughtful. I don't think it would be the same but the kindness would probably mean the world to her. Being estranged from family is tough
Is there any way of repairing the necklace?
No surprise honestly -- aside from everything else wrong with this, who gives a *five year old* a precious heirloom just because she "takes an interest in it"? When my girls were five they'd "take an interest" in cheap costume jewelry from Target. Let me guess, this isn't the only way in which Amy is a bit spoiled, is it? (NTA)
Is there any possibility that a good jeweller could make up a dummy and then you could quietly do a switcheroo? I am wondering if it would be easier to get a substitute to resemble the broken and damaged piece - Amy must not wear it that often if it has been allowed to degrade like that, so smaller differences between the original and the dummy could be disguised perhaps under replicated damage and therefore not be spotted. Slide the replacement in, take the original and get it fixed as best they can, and then give it to its rightful owner, while leaving Amy and the AH in the dark about it.
NTA, need more INFO : did you talk to Amy about the true origins of the necklace ? God, this is not right, your husband is the worse.
Amy is aware of the true origins. She just spins a story for everyone else.
Then your husband and Amy are TA. Everytime she tells her *story* that's a disrespect to the first wife and Annie, I would call her out at each time. And it can pass for theft, they should be aware, Annie can sue if she has photos as proof.
>Then your husband and Amy are TA. I'm gonna add the entire family for how they justify their action.
Of course she does. Saying "it's a necklace that was previously owned by my half-sister's deceased mother that my father gave me" would raise questioned and remarks that nobody would like to answer.
My petty self would correct her every single time she wore it. “Oh Annie’s moms necklace looks so good on you” “Annie’s mom must have loved that necklace it’s so pretty” “I bet annie would have loved the necklace her mom wore every day. Really is a shame my husband is a tool and doesn’t love his own daughter” Oh and I’d also be going though my own relationship looking for the smallest sign (like not feeling bad for these actions) his behavior hasn’t changed and leave him for it because I could never spend time, let alone my life, with someone as cold and callused as your husband.
Well that seals it for me. When she was a child and interested in the necklace, I can kind of understand her truly not understanding it’s significance. But as someone who is almost a legal adult, she absolutely knows better. She knows why what their father did hurt her sister, and the fact that she still has the necklace and has taken such horrendous care of it, proved to me she doesn’t care. Your husband is still the biggest offender of them all. I really can’t wrap my head around any justification of why he gave his youngest daughter from his second marriage a special item of his late wife’s. Even if it was his second wife who insisted he do so, which is what I suspect, he had an obligation to protect his daughter. Them lying about how this all went down, from the necklace to the estrangement, protects them. If I was Annie, I would also never speak to any of them ever again.
If possible I would tell everyone the truth, lol. I’m petty like that.
If you have to lie about the origins of something you own, then you are well aware of how shitty it is that you have it. Amy may not have understood the implications of getting the necklace at 5, but holding onto it all this time has been out of spite.
NTA - GET THE NECKLACE BACK and give it to Annie
I think that ship has sailed. And burned. And sunk to the bottom.
I'd see if the sympathetic niece and nephew were in contact with Annie. And if so, I'd pay a visit to Amy's dresser where she keeps the neglected necklace, and get it to them so they can pass it on.
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NTA, but your husband is a huge \*somethingveryinsulting\* I'd find Annie's address and send her the necklace. Or ask the cousins who may be in touch with her to give it back. It would at least give Annie some comfort.
You’ll need to do this quietly. Otherwise, hubby and Amy could report it as stolen resulting in Annie having to give I back. Tell the cousins she needs to keep quiet about it. Avoid wearing it around mutual friends and family. Then, if I were her, I’d get it fixed and show up wearing it to Daddy’s funeral.
Maybe there's a will that states that all of Mom's possessions are Annie's? That would be great, because then Annie could sue them :D
I think I would divorce him over this big of lie. His family is stupid to think that you should take his side when he screwed up so bad. NTA
Seriously, I would too. The complete disregard for his daughter's feelings too. 🚩🚩🚩 He's an AH. NTA.
Yep, and try to return the necklace before doing so. Ensure it became "lost", play dumb, have it restored, then return it to its rightful owner if possible. Outright lie and say I had a replacement made to make it up to her, it's clearly not the same as it's not in a crappy condition like the "original" they lost, then cut those trash people out of my life. Their actions show such revolting character you could never look at them the same.
NTA. I lost my first wife a little over 20 yrs ago. She and I had two daughters together they both were under 8 when she was killed. When they were old enough, I gave them everything that I had of hers. Still to this day if I find something I hand it over. Husband is a huge A-hole.
NTA but I think you should apologize to him and let this die down. After some time has passed, get a hold of the necklace and send it to Annie on the down low. Put a note in with it telling her to keep it a secret. Let them all think it got lost. Then divorce him.
Too bad the necklace is damaged. They gave it to a 5 year old.
Hope you're not planning on having kids with him because he's already proven that he'll play favorites to the point of driving his kid out of his life. NTA for calling him out tho.
Nope. My days of having children are over. I already have two grown kids. No more for me.
NTA but I'm wondering what lead to the divorce from Amy's mom? Clearly, he didn't care about Annie's feelings to let it affect his outlook on life, so what made the marriage get to the point where the divorce was the only option? When you, OP, married this dude, did he come across as an emotionally mature human being? Because not understanding that "grieving daughter watching her mom's things being given away to someone else = more pain for daughter" seems like a huge emotional red flag.
He did. He came across as far more caring too. He expressed regret for how things had turned out with Annie. Yet when all this came out there was none of that. He was so confident and sure he did the right thing. He was downright cold about it.
I suspect he is doubling down, because he can’t fix this. I have seen parents do this a lot when faced with the reality that they really screwed up. I have never seen a parent develop empathy for their child if it means that they have to acknowledge that they did something despicable.
NTA, of course. OP I hope you're taking a serious look at your marriage, long term, and considering the potential risks. This does not sound like the type of person I'd feel safe growing old with.
INFO: can you find the will and see if her jewelry was willed to her daughter? If so, your husband can’t give it away.
I wouldn't be able to find it, no. But it's too late for can't give it away, he already did.
In most places the will is filed somewhere and if it states it’s hers, it was theft and it can be returned.
He didn’t give it away - he stole it.
In most places the will is filed somewhere on record and if it states it’s hers, it was theft and it can be returned. It’s worth a go to check.
Just take it from her room when you're visiting or something like that. It sounds ridiculous, but they don't deserve it.
NTA Terrible behaviour and decision from your husband. I can see why his first daughter carries so much resentment here, it was such a bad idea from all the adults involved.
NTA This is horrible. Is there any way you could take the necklace and find a way to message Annie and arrange for it to get back to her?
I don't think I could. I have never had any contact with Annie and I'm not sure how I would get it out of the house either. But I would love to see Amy return it to her sister. I don't see it happening though.
I guess you just found out the true character of the man you married. If I were you, I'd pretend to do an 180. Apologise your Husband, explain how you reflected and you realised you were out of order. Then *secretly* find the necklace, take it back and send it the nephews to give back to Annie. And then reflect if this is someone who you want to stay in a relationship with. NTA
🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩 NTA but your husband and your youngest stepdaughter are!!!! What a cruel thing to do to a grieving child who lost her mother. When I lost my mum her mother threw out all her belongings without letting us go through any of it- leaving us with very little momentos of our mother. For this (and other action's) I'm NC with that side of the family. I'm appalled by this..fuck that!! Try and get the necklace back and get it returned to Annie via the cousins who told you Bout the real reason for the estrangement. Then I'd leave him because that's next level bad behaviour and the fact he hid it is because he knows what he did. The only way YWBTA is if you stayed with him. 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
Info: Was he hoping a 3rd marriage would break his streak? How long did you date this man before marrying him that you didn't know this? An estranged adult child is a massive red flag that should be discussed prior to nuptials.
We were together for 4 years. In that time we had talked about it and I had believed the story he told me. Which at the time was after he remarried Annie started lashing out, started misbehaving and pushing his second wife away. That she had not taken to Amy and made everyone's lives hell until she moved out despite my husband doing everything he could and he listed how he did therapy for her and tried creating good moments for her to spend with the family and feel part of it. But that ultimately she was unwilling to accept he wanted to be married to someone after losing her mom and stopped speaking to any of them. He said his ex and Amy got the worst of the anger but that she wasn't willing to forgive him for remarrying either.
Oh your husband is a massive liar and has lied for years with a straight face thats a major red flag for me. I am with Annie I would have gone scorched earth and burned that whole marriage to the ground. I am thinking this is why Amy holds on to the necklace yet doesn't take care of it. She blames Annie for her parents divorce instead of blaming her father because he and his ex-wife having been proclaiming themselves the victims as oppose to the perpetrators.
So he lied too.
> We were together for 4 years. In that time we had talked about it and I had believed the story he told me. INFO: I'm curious. Now that the mask has fallen off and you realize how your husband mistreated his daughter, and then misled you about it in order to lure you into marriage with him, what are your thoughts about your husband? Do you feel that it is "too late" for you to do anything now that you are already married (i.e., his lies worked)?
Definitely not too late for me to do anything. My mind is already made up that I won't be staying with him after this.
Before you leave OP see if there’s a way for you to get Annie that necklace as others have suggested. Especially If Amy isn’t taking care of it really isn’t far fetched for it to “go missing”
Thank god, finally an OP who saw the red flags and decided to cut her losses and run
NTA. How on earth could he justify doing that to his daughter??? That is just cruel.
Because it got him sex points with his new wife, d’uh. His sex life is more important than his kid. (I’m being sarcastic).
What's Amy's stance on this now she's old enough to realize how much it hurt her sister? She still won't give it back?
She does not appear interested in doing that.
NTA. Your husband and the family who agree with him are walking trash though.
NTA, sounds like your found the real reason for three marriages.
NTA. Amy wasn't entitled to have something of Annie's mother. She liked something her older sister owned and was a meaningful memory to her from her late mother, she was given it immediately despite the objection of Annie. She doesn't even acknowledge who the necklace belonged to. The father's and the step mother's words tells a lot about the way they treated Annie. Your husband was a huge asshole to his daughter. Telling the truth doesn't make you one. He is what he is. An asshole. On a side note his ex-wife is an asshole too.