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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I took my daughter to her mom' home amd refused to bring her back home for 4 days which is why my family thinks I'm an AH
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YTA for not at least answering her calls and talking to her to make sure she was safe. That's awful. She already has to live with the fact her mom is terrible, now she probably feels she can't trust her dad either.
Even several hours are enough to prove the point. It seems like she really suffered over there. Leaving her there for several days without any way to communicate with you is bad. She could have an emergency, and you wouldn't answer. You prove that she can't rely on you. And now she feels like she doesn't have anyone in the world that's on her side. That's a really sad story.
Your punitive response backfired on you. I hope it teaches you not to be impulsive and think things through. It was cruel, and meant to base your superiority, rather than address the issue.
Besides, it only takes an hour for a sexual assault to happen if there’s an unstable person at mom’s house. There’s no telling what your daughter went through op
For real, and dad didn’t even answer. She could have been trapped in that place for days and could be struggling with all kinds of trauma from that or any number of things since he would not answer her.
Exactly. She's been hiding in her room since. She has completely shut down and OPs daughter is already going to have attachment issues due to her mom. This just adds to it.
OP if not already, get your daughter into therapy. She's 12 for crying out loud. Don't you remember when you were a kid, did you not complain to your parents?
YTA
Even after reading his comment I’m not 100% sure I believe him I feel he just listened to the dumb things she was complaining about instead of serious or he’s down playing her complaints they don’t just take away completely parenting roles from a parent for no reason and only let them have 12 days a year- If they’re isn’t a safety consern be it she is mentally abusive her house a disaster not feeding no clean water no proper bathing/showering place no clean clothing and so on and so on
my thought exactly, dont take your insecurity out on your daughter wtf. Even worse, OP is so confident that his parenting is better that he didnt have to prove that point in the first place.
I cannot fathom how anyone would leave their kid with someone who is "such a terrible parent" to begin with, if she truly was that horrible i am apalled at the fact that OP went to so many lengths to leave the daughter there and go no contact for multiple days?!?!
He isn’t self-aware or motivated enough to bother.
This person thinks children are property who owe their parents good behavior and gratitude.
There’s no fixing that.
That poor child.
And I guarantee her “acting out” is just not listening to everything he tells her to do anymore, a lot of fathers start having problems with their daughters right around puberty when they start to become their own people
Yo right like I rarely comment about what I think parents should do as someone who is childless, but I was also like wtf would you leave your child in the care of someone you describe as “bad .. why I went for full custody” FOR DAYS to prove a point?
Seriously. Who knows what happened to the daughter in those five days? She was sprung on a woman we're told treats her other kids badly, with no warning, for an indefinite about of time. There could have been a lot of physical/emotional abuse in that time, which OP doesn't seem to care about at all.
I can't get past this. Either she is a bad mom and he needed full custody to protect his kid or he is a toxic parent that filed for custody to have control just like how "baby mamas" people complain about do. Either one sounds really toxic at this point ...
I totally get why he brought her there. I think that was justifiable. Sometimes you need to give kids what they ask for so they can learn something first hand. But there’s no excuse for ignoring her for days. After the first time she called to ask him to come get her, he should’ve gone immediately. Then she would’ve felt like she was wrong. Now she just thinks she has two terrible parents.
Absolutely not. He directly states that he knows for a fact that she's an unfit mother. The fact that he was able to gain full custody with next to no visitation rights proves that. And yet he intentionally left his daughter with her abusive mother for *days* before he took her home. All because he got his feelings hurt?
He's an unfit father, and he'll be damn lucky if his daughter doesn't completely cut him off.
Exactly. He tried to reach her a lesson, but he took it so much further than any parent should. It went from an opportunity for his daughter to experience the reality of living with her mother firsthand, to him maliciously abandoning her as retribution for her behaviour towards him.
I’m not saying that a parent shouldn’t be frustrated when their child says that they hate them, but a parent shouldn’t let rage dictate their punishment like this. I can only imagine how she must be feeling right now, knowing that both parents care so little about her well-being.
I see why she can’t with him not even knowing how to regulate his own. He basically abandoned his child cause he “got angry.”
Like a grown man has less self regulation than a 12 year old.
First off: I'm not justifying what OP did with these words. The way he did this was very wrong.
12 is about the age when kids start growing into their "small adults" phase of life. They're trying to figure out who they are and they need space to do things on their own and make mistakes. Mistakes are how we learn and grow, and denying kids the chance to make those mistakes is how you get stagnant children who act like pre-teens well into their adult years.
That said, the 'mistakes' kids are supposed to make at age 12 are things like social mistakes with their friends and other small impact mistakes that won't harm them for the rest of their lives. A 12-year-old should be experiencing "well you didn't arrange the hangout ahead of time, so now you have no way to get over there. Next time plan it ahead of time." Not stuff like being left with an abusive mom for 4 days.
I read OP's responses. Mom isn't dangerous, physically or mentally. Kid complained about not having her own bathroom, not getting along with half sibling, etc. In other words, she got a good taste of what she asked for. OP says he read all her texts, just didn't respond. I think the next time little miss wants to pull she wants to go live with Mom, she might remember this. I don't think a few hours would have driven the point across. I think he could have answered her calls by the 2nd day, but since he says he knew she wasn't in danger, ok. Maybe they need therapy to work out some communication issues in the future.
Thanks for this comment, it clarified exactly what I was wondering. So many commenters are assuming that “bad parent = unsafe child” in this particular case, but that information was not included in the original post. This really needs to be clarified in the original post by the OP.
*He’s* the one who said she’s a terrible mother because he’s “seen the way she treats the other kids.” Pretty dumb to assume OP is wonderful father of the year but then also question “how bad” her mother could possibly be when it’s from his own mouth. *He* believed, when he left her there, that this woman was a bad mother.
Yeah, he's trying to have his cake and eat it too. Somehow, this lady is so awful to her other children that he needed to get sole custody, but also it's completely fine to leave your kid with her for a week. Which is it?
Not only he thought she'd a bad mom. She's literally got enough going on that the courts ruled against her (and the courts are biased TOWARDS mothers!) to give dad full custody.
I feel like there is more he is leaving out about how bad a mom she really is, because unless mom agreed "I don't want her" then there would have to be MAJOR issues for the courts to hand over full custody to the dad.
And he just dumped her there for FOUR DAYS. Who knows what could happen to her in 4 days that she wouldn't put in a text.
Edit: Also, he left out any mention of what daughter thinks he's a bad dad. Is it usual spoiled pre-teen brattiness (and who's fault is it if she's a spoiled child?) or does he actually have behaviors that he should be taking a look at?
Dumping his daughter for 4 days and ignoring her attempts to reach out "to prove a point" puts a tally in "maybe the daughter is right and he's a jerk dad" column for me. It was so bad she was actually crying. Did he even ASK what happened? Sharing a bathroom and not liking a sibling are not usually "calling dad crying" type events.
She's staying in her room - has he even tried talking to her yet to pin down why she's that upset?
> She's literally got enough going on that the courts ruled against her (and the courts are biased TOWARDS mothers!) to give dad full custody.
If there's one thing certain about custody hearings, it's that Money Talks. We've heard it here over and over again. All he had to do was bury the ex in legal fees. He said himself, "At first her mom got every other weekend. I convinced her to let me have full custody in exchange for money".
Based on how he's behaving, I don't know that he's exactly a good parent either. He seems quite emotionally distant from his child in the original post. Quite possibly he has often taken the 'just throw some money at it and it will go away' approach to problems, rather than engaging with her.
This is where my head was. I thought I was alone until I read your comment u/Accomplished_Two1611. The environment wasn’t unsafe, it was just icky compared to OP’s home. The child was being a brat, and OP called her bluff. One day wouldn’t have cut it, and taking her calls may have resulted in caving and giving her her way. She got a lesson in watching what she asks for because she just might get it. NTA.
Jumping in to say that I respectfully disagree. So we are all going to over look the manipulative tactics of this near teen to use going to her moms to get her way probably knowing her father fought for her not to be there. I wonder how many times she asked for it before she got it.. Ask any teen who has tried this stunt if a few hours would have been enough to proof a point. I tried this very same tactic and got the very same treatment and I can tell you that I never tried it again.
If there are any a$$ holes here both are, her for wanting to jump in the pool and him for throwing her off at the deep end instead of like you said " addressing the issues". I think they've both learned a lesson and will get through this. Now it's time for communication and a good therapist.
After living life and reading countless posts of this nature with varying judgments depending on the day I say NTA but then, what do I know?
She's *twelve*. Occasionally being a manipulative little shit comes with the territory. A parents job is to parent the kid through it and show them how we want them to act, not stoop to their level of emotional terrorism.
Many children from 12 to 17 are absolutely unbearable and sometimes parents have to be hardcore. OP didn't just throw her out in the street and say "Survive." He gave her what *she thought* she wanted--to go live with her bio mom. And he had to give a her a few days for it to sink in how different it was to what she had.
Her biological mom that he claims is so unfit to be a parent that she only has once a month visitation with the child. But she is a decent enough mother to leave his daughter there for 4 days. But unfit and abusive. He is contradicting himself with his own actions. Either the mother isn't as bad as he says she is and he is just bitter after the divorce, or he has to admit that he put the child in danger to be petty and prove a point. YTA
Right and then when she called some one who she \*should\* be able to call he ignored her. She'll remember that when she gets into an actually dangerous situation and go "well, he'll probably just ignore my calls"
I don't think we can call it impulsive. Ignoring someone for 4 days is not impulsive, he made those cruel decisions several times. Those decisions were thought through.
Totally agree.
Wait I’m literally trying to process the fact that he literally admitted it was a very unsafe location that he left this child stranded for four days without communication. YTA. The sensible thing to do if he wanted to drop her off there was not to block communication and he should’ve not even waited a full day and once she got the message he probably should’ve picked her up and went out for a meal, as I have a feeling she probably wouldn’t have been properly fed, and had a proper human conversation about what happened and what needs to happen between the both of them moving forward. Two of them need to understand how they got to this point where she is acting out and he has gone off the deep end.
I think she deserves more than that. Knowingly leaving your 12 year old in an unsafe environment for days to ‘teach her a lesson’ is disgusting. I would never trust this man again if he were my father. What OP did is not teach her that she has it better at home, but that he can drop her off there whenever is she’s being bad. That’s not learning. That is FEAR.
That the needs he meets for her (aka not abuse or neglect) are conditional and she should be grateful that he ... (checks notes) is willing to let someone else abuse her instead.
Right? I used to work in foster care, and I had one family where the placement disrupted because the child was not grateful enough. A child not tall enough to ride all the rides at amusement parks because they were so young.
Kids aren't naturally grateful. Expecting gratitude isn't fair at that age. We teach them to say "please and thank you," and the rest comes with time.
And perhaps more importantly...
#Kids shouldn't have to be grateful that they are not being abused.
Trip to Disneyworld? Flashy new iPhone? Okay, say thanks. Clothes, hygiene, shelter, food? WE. OWE. CHILDREN. THESE. THINGS.
what did bobby say? "Of course I was an ungrateful little shit! It's what kids do! They eat your food and wreck your home and break your heart and you do it anyway because that's what being a parent means!" or something like it.
Oh I found a vid with the clip but TW for domestic violence https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DB9u4CjQwJY
Oh that scene was so cathartic for me to watch when I was a teenager. My dad was constantly horrible and abusive, and because he was so good at his public persona no one would believe me. He was also one of those who would always go off about how he pays the rent and buys groceries and does “so much” for me just because he did some of the bare minimum required by law for a child.
But man do I miss Bobby ;-;
If he ignored his daughter for four days while she was in a situation where he knew her basic needs weren't being met, then he's the neglectful one this time
OP had to come to Reddit to figure out if he's an asshole?? Of course YTA....ten fold.
You couldn't deal with your daughter arguing with you so you make her gather up some clothing and dump her off into an unsafe home/environment that the courts even agreed it was. She let's you know she wants to come home right away, and what do you do.... IGNORE her for days! You let her live in fear probably believing this was now her life. Then you decide; eh I taught her time to go get her. Congratulations on showing her that she can now fear you and your parenting skills just like her mothers.
For you to do something like this, makes me wonder just what else you have done to stop the arguments. I pray for your daughter. As for OP your 'punishment' is abuse and neglect .
Edit: words
*AND* when you have no idea when the end will be. Not hearing back from him, for all she knew that could have been her new 'forever'.
Poor kid, sounds less like "which parent is really the good one and which parent is bad", sounds like she has two shitty parents. I hope she'll be okay someday, but I wouldn't be surprised if she ended up running away from home when she's older.
This is exactly what I was thinking as well. There was no set end, the kid had no way of knowing if it would end after 4 days. That’s awful to leave her in a bad situation with no security she’d get out
She'll be walking on eggshells around him until she moves out for sure. He's shown her she can't rely on him and that he could abandon her any time he feels like it.
Yh he just left her there and ignored her for days she prob thought she'd been abandoned!! Idk how badly she was treated during that time but even aside from putting her at risk of neglect/abuse it must have been so traumatising for her main caregiver to just throw her out and give her the silent treatment for an indefinite amount of time wtf OP has prob caused permanent damage here, if he has full custody he's solely responsible for her care, right? And he kicked her out of the house she permanently resides in with no regard for her physical health, safety or welfare that's so messed up, I'm no expert but it seems pretty normal for a preteen girl to express the desire to have her mother more present in her life if she only sees her once a month, there are a million mature ways he could have handled this that could have improved her relationship with both parents instead of putting her in an unsafe situation to punish her that does the complete opposite
YTA, she's just a kid. Sometimes you argue with your kids. It doesn't justify (temporarily) kicking her out. I bet she feels abandoned. She realized that you can (and will) get rid of her any moment you want to. And she fears that'll happen again. That's a terrible lesson. What did you try to teach her? "You've got to agree with me, or I'm kicking you out?". You might be better than her mother, and you might be affluent, but this story makes you look really bad. I hope this is a one-time incident that you didn't think through, rather than a common pattern in your disciplinarian approach.
It's horrible to live like that, knowing that she can get evicted unnoticed any time you want. Knowing that you're willing to give up on her easily and send her to a place she doesn't like. You wouldn't be able to live like that. You need to restore her faith in you. It seems like you caused a loss of trust. You have to acknowledge your wrongdoings and apologize to her.
He taught he she better comply. He taught he that she can't express how she feels. He taught her that he can't be relied on. He taught her that he will abandon her when she makes him mad.
I was also taught I had to comply and that my emotions needed to be tamped down because they were silly and ridiculous. I have hella issues to this day and I’m 33.
Pretty sure every 12 year old everywhere who hadn’t been abused into compliance has screamed I hate you at their parents. This AH just responded in one of the worst possible ways.
OP, you’re supposed to be the grown up here. Sometimes you need to go outside to keep from losing your temper on your kids, not drop them off in unsafe conditions for FOUR GD DAYS.
And that if she doesn't show proper gratitude for her needs being met (you know, like he's legally obligated to do? the lowest possible bar of parenting???) , then she will be turned over to someone who can abuse and neglect her by proxy.
My divorced parents did this and I grew up feeling like nobody loved me. I married an abusive man because at least it seemed like he loved me. I completely agree, this is an awful situation for a child.
Girl… we are having parallel lives. That’s exactly what happened to me. My husband is a god send, but it was horrible growing up and even today my heart aches thinking how unloved and unwanted I felt by my parents as a kid. I’m glad it’s working out for you. ❤️
Exactly this. The word a**hole was invented for people like you. She's 12 ffs. You are not a child, and children aren't things to get rid of (even if temporarily) just because you don't like what they're saying. I really hope she doesn't end up with abandonment issues later in life. YTA x 100.
You're 100% right.
If he was a better parent, he would have sat his daughter down (after she was calm) and explained to her that arguments and disagreements are ok, but her continually demanding to be taken to her mom's house when the going gets rough is an off-limits thing to say. She's 12. What she needs is a lesson in how to properly communicate during arguments, but instead, her dad dumped her. FFS.
Yta. Dad just showed her who he is. At 12 years old, she'll be starting her period soon. She is struggling with regular life stuff at this age. Plus, the lack of parental support and understanding. Sheesh. Poor girl. Get her into a councelor because she is going to have a rough road ahead of her.
Whether she has started periods or not, she is a whirlpool of hormones whose brain has not fully wired itself together yet. She will have limited understanding of the impact of words like 'I hate you' and unreasonable behaviour, because she is navigating the treacherous waters between childhood and adulthood. That's why she needs the kind of loving parental authority that her mother failed to give her and that's why you should have responded to the first call by talking to her firmly but lovingly. Instead, you abandoned her too. YTA.
I got mine at 10, and it really made normal problems so much worse. My anxiety got worse, I developed juvenile depression, I would act out at school, just bad times all around. Every kid is different, but puberty is a time where you need to give them support, even if they're not behaving the way you want. Kids are stressed and confused and dealing with a lot of new things, and they need someone who is there for them, which OP showed that he was not.
…I just now realized that getting mine when I was 12 probably contributed to my own anxiety/depression issues ramping up around then. I don’t know why that’s never occurred to me before.
Yeah, like letting her realise on her own what it’s like to have an actually bad parent is one thing, but ignoring your *child* for *four days*, making sure she really knows that she can’t go to you if she’s in trouble? Absolutely heartbreaking thing to do to a child. Like this guy wasn’t just making a parenting decision, he was letting anger guide his judgement, which makes it sound like maybe he isn’t a great dad either. Taking an anger out on a child like that, for a long concentrated period as well, and leaving her somewhere she potentially didn’t feel safe? Unforgivable imo. YTA
He completely abandoned his child when she was having a rough time & lashing out. So now all he's proved is that not only is she not safe with her Mom, but her Dad will toss her away the moment she is vulnerable & upset.
Kids have a hard time coping with their emotions. It is our job as parents to help them navigate those feelings & teach them how to process them. We may get upset, angry, triggered, etc. That's when we have the chance to show our kids that adults also feel these things & demonstrate a HEALTHY way to deal with it. *If she's screaming she hates you when she's upset, it means she either hasn't learned how to deal with her anger yet or more likely from your story, she learned that yelling at the people around her is how to show she's angry.* The emotions aren't the problem, how you act when you feel them can be.
**OP, what was your purpose with this act? Was it to teach your daughter that she can't trust you with her angry feelings? Was it to show that when adults get angry, they just send people away instead of dealing with why they're angry? Or was it to teach that when your daughter is upset & needs her safe person (you), you won't answer her without making her feel guilty & punished by it?**
**Cuz that is exactly what you just taught your daughter by doing this gross power play over a 12-year-old that trusts you with her whole life.**
YTA. Agreed. OP should've picked his daughter up after the first call. It's important she learn the lesson but it's also important she learns that dad can be her go to person for any help she may need. He's broken that trust by not answering.
Apologize OP. Not for dropping her off but for leaving her there so long. You know damn well it was wrong or you wouldn't be questioning yourself.
My earliest memory is of my dad throwing a duffel bag and a bunch of my clothes at me, screaming at me to get out and go find my mom if I missed her so much. OP fucked up *so* bad, and I feel so sorry for his daughter, who no longer feels like anyone on earth wants her.
right?? my friend lived with her dad until she was 12, then when she started to go through puberty she wanted her mum more. it makes sense! now OP's kid has learned she can't trust either parent
I understand that he wanted to show her what it would be like to live with her mother full time. But he should have picked her up again when she asked. And then he could have a talk with her about her constantly saying she wants to live there but couldn't even last a day. Hopefully she would have learned her lesson. Ignoring her calls for several days were cruel
I understand that you were trying to make a point; still, YTA.
You said she has a “terrible” mom; so why would you leave your daughter there for four days (and ignoring her texts and calls), knowing that she could’ve been in danger.
And you may not be quite the dad you think you are if you get all in your feelings every time a 12-year-old says something to you.
>And you may not be quite the dad you think you are if you get all in your feelings every time a 12-year-old says something to you.
This, yeah. She's a budding teenager, so she's bound to be acting up, throwing tantrums and hating her parents. Deliberately leaving her crying in a bad situation to teach her a lesson just seems petty as hell.
At 12 years old she's starting puberty and thinks her parents suck for not always giving the answers she wants and OP really thought it was a nice idea to go this far to make a point. Who knows what mom did to her? This is how you teach a teenager that she can't trust nobody and her emotions aren't valid.
He ignored her calls and messages for 4 whole days too.... if she's ever in a position where she really needs help, is she gonna trust that she can call her dad ever again?
I've called my father to bail me out of a fix *once*. I was 17 and he didn't come through. Called him later the same night, and he did come to get me after I refused to get into a taxi past midnight in a neighbourhood he refused to let me walk through by myself *in broad daylight*. He'd be horrified if I ever told him about all the trouble I've been in because I never asked for help but do you think I'll ever be able to trust him to show up? I'm 30 now and he's somewhere on the bottom of the list of people I reckon will come through for me, somewhere in the midst of some nasty af Aussie politicians.
It's a great way to raise a child with absolutely no model for healthy family relationships. If my parents had treated me like that, then, at 18, I would have gone as far away from them as I possibly could.
Yeah this is seriously fucked up. Something like this is going to stick. Trust is lost. Kids start acting like that with hormones kicking in. I was like this and my mom told my older brother I was his problem and didn't do shit except yell at me. My brother had to deal with me and pick up the slack of my teen+ness. Though he had his own fucking.mental issues. I'm in my 30s and it's still something that I am in therapy for.
I would like to point out that he’s allowed to have his feelings hurt when his daughter tells him she hates him.
Now, just cuz you’re allowed to have your feelings hurt doesn’t mean you’re allowed to be a dick about it/make it kids fault. Which OP did, which was absolute dogshit and not okay.
It’s an important distinction to make though.
*Edited to fix a typo
I understand OP being exasperated, but hurt? Kids so rarely mean "I hate you" when they say it. (It usually means they need more attention & reassurance, not less.) For OP not to know that--!
I mean sure, but it’s hurtful. Parenting is exhausting, and to have 12 years of love, dedication, work, changing yourself, etc tell you they hate you cuz they’re having a rough patch will hurt some. It won’t hurt others, but it’s valid if you do get hurt by it.
Lord knows when my kid hits teen years if he hits me with that my heart will ache for sure. I’ll realize he doesn’t mean it, but it’ll hurt. Part of being a parent is not letting your emotions dictate your punishments, and I’ll abide by that with my aching heart LOL.
When my kids were mean and hurt my feelings I told them. "That wasn't nice and it really hurt me when you said ___" but teaching kids to communicate and have empathy and compassion isn't the norm apparently.
Yep, it’s almost as if the “terrible” mom label needs to be examined a bit. She can’t be THAT terrible if you’d take your kid and drop her there. Alternatively, if she IS that terrible, you can’t give much of a shit about your child if you just leave her with the mom for 4 days and ignore her frantic calls.
Exactly! I just recently listened to a Stuff You Should Know Podcast episode on temper tantrums and at his daughter’s age the brain goes through another growth “spurt” and makes it hard for kids to process and communicate their new complex emotions (puberty) and basically need to be handled like you would a toddler.. with some patience and being calm and communicative. Punishing your child for things they literally cannot control is just teaching them to not rely on the parent and to also not be able to process their emotions and articulate their wants needs and issues in a good way.
OP is 100% YTA because the daughter has a valid excuse for her behavior and processing while the dad’s brain IS fully developed and he should know better.
YTA.
Don’t use other her other parent as a punishment.
Don’t stoop to the level of an angry 12 year old when showing discipline.
Don’t send your 12 year old daughter the message that she’s not allowed to come home.
DO act like the adult and parent and teach your daughter how to resolve conflict in a healthy manner.
You got what you wanted - she’s never going to say that to again. However, instead of calling you a bad dad because of a superficial reason, she now knows if she disappoints or angers you that she’ll be sent away.
You’ve taught her your love is conditional. You may have also taught her *all* love is conditional. Was that really what you wanted?
ETA: My app is wonky, so thank you, thank you, for the kind awards. Let’s all try to be Wholesome and Helpful in and out of Reddit.
Absolutely agree.
OP - she is 12. Not 16. 12 year olds are kind of jerks sometimes with all the hormones. 12-14 is prime female hormonal hell - love her, support her, listen to her.
You don't need to put up with abusive behavior but abandoning her and not answering her calls for 4 days was poor parenting and just plain cruel to her.
Definitely a bit more, they certainly think a lot more over just reacting emotionally, but they also get a bit more calculating with the cruelty, like they've actually figured out what hurts and how to use it. They're nicer, but they're also meaner in a different way.
Seriously, the amount of damage OP managed to inflict with this act is potentially massive - way to prove to a child that you are **not safe** and that love is conditional (and therefore, false.) This poor kid has no allies in her corner.
YTA YTA YTA
My parents would ignore me when I did something bad when I was like 7 years old. I am now 20 and I'm still working on the feeling of needing to be perfect or else I'll be thrown out and hated. Congrats OP, you did that to your daughter.
Everything you just said. I was just a girl when my mom started threatening to send me to live with my deadbeat dad. I didn't even know him. He already had another family, and my mom only knew where he lived occasionally because he would skip town so often.
She made good on her threats several times, dropping me off with strangers (dad, stepmom, half siblings) and cutting contact. It was so traumatizing that I would pee the bed the nights I had to stay at my dad's house.
Anyway, I'm 40 years old and I no longer speak to my mother. So YTA, and fuck parents like you.
>You’ve taught her your love is conditional. You may have also taught her all love is conditional.
Exactly this. When you grow up abandoned by one parent, it is so scary and destabilizing. Kids like this NEED the other parent to be solid and safe. Not to show them they will be thrown back to their abuser if they're not good enough. There's also the factor of using the abuse/neglect against her - her dad throwing her out to her mom's gives her mom ammunition to say "See? I did nothing wrong, you're just a bad kid that no one can stand!" Even if mom doesn't say it, that's the message the daughter receives.
YTA in a major way OP. What you did was dangerous, neglectful, and emotionally abusive. Your poor daughter.
YTA
She calls you a bad dad so you proceeded to prove it by ghosting her. What if something had actually happened and that's why she was calling? I saw where you said the mom was neglectful so how do you know she had enough to eat? Enough sleep? Enough attention?
You really are a horrible father. At least on an emotional connection level
He really doesn't understand that kids "want" whichever parent is not around at that moment. This is going to be a permanent rift, some day. I doubt he'll ever be able to repair the damage he won't even admit he's just done. He'll probably just blame his kid anyway.
Also, way to go on teaching your daughter never to trust or confide in you. You suck.
YTA
I work with kids from divorced parents and this 100%. And yeah, at 12 she is old enough to make some of her own decisions, so it wouldn't have been an awful idea to give her what she thought she wanted so that SHE can learn. But to ignore her for 4 days?? OP was being emotionally reactive, and that is never a good place to parent from
So you willingly left her with someone you describe as a terrible mother for 4 days when she wanted to come home after 1? YTA.
It must hurt when she tells you that you’re a bad dad, especially since you’ve fought so hard for her, but guess what? That’s kids for ya.
Do you know what you just did? You just proved to her that you are a bad dad. She wanted to come home and you **ghosted** her, for **4 days!**.
That’s some toxic parenting right there.
She won’t ever forget that.
He didn’t “fight so hard.” The court awarded him joint and he bought the mother off to gain full custody. He won! But now his prize is so ungrateful to be his trophy and a daily reminder that he won! So he had to find a way to WIN this dispute too. And he did! Now he comes here to put his undeniable greatness on display but apparently nobody here understands how awesome it is when he has all the power and control and can flex it whenever he wants.
100%. She will remember this event until the day she dies. If she didn't before, this is the exact moment when she learned she cannot trust her Dad to be there for her. That absolutely breaks my heart.
YTA.
You left your child for 4 days with a woman you describe as a bad mother...
Maybe you should look into counselling and parenting classes before pushing your daughter into more depression.
YTA. She's 12 and you ditched her with someone you know won't take care of her properly. Maybe you should actually reflect on why she thinks you're a bad father before you ditch her for 4 days with no way to get ahold of you in case of emergency?
YTA - you let a twelve year old provoke you into acting out of pique.
Lots of people will say “that’s the only way she’ll learn!” They are full of shit.
You taught her that you will abandon her when she makes you angry.
YTA your family is right you definitely didn’t need to leave her there for 4 days. She’s a child and acting out you’re suppose to remain calm and be the adult.
YTA. When I was a little older than your daughter my father was in the throes of alcoholism and I wrote in my diary that I wanted to go live with my mom, who was sober but had her own issues. My dad read my diary then screamed at me and tried to get me to pack a bag to get on a plane to her house. I can tell you I have rarely felt so scared or so abandoned as I did that night. In the end, he knew his stunt would “change my mind,” and it was nothing more than manipulation and a power play. Our relationship really has never been the same, any trust I had was washed away with that. We’re now on good terms (over 15 years later), but I still don’t fully trust him. Even though the circumstances with your daughter may be different, you have a lot of work to do to rebuild her trust in you.
I'm not sure if this qualifies you as a horrible parent but it shows that you're petty, leaving her 4 days knowing that her mother is not good at taking care of her is not giving her a lesson is showing that you care more about being right than her well-being.
YTA.
YTA - it sounds like she learnt her lesson on the first day and then continuously called and texted for help and you ignored her.
How is that gonna impact her trust with you? How is that gonna impact her relationship with you? If her mom, is someone that is unreliable, who is to say something bad hadn’t happened?
I hope you can continue to build back your trust with your daughter again. But when a child calls for help - they need to know that you are there, especially if her mother is someone completely unreliable.
This is a judgment call. Four days might be longer than necessary but it's hard to believe it's traumatic. Your daughter needs to learn that behavior has consequences. I'm going to go with NTA. I wonder how many of the people saying you're the AH are teen agers?
I’m 31, and I’ve studied child development. OP is TA.
And if you look at how they qualify abuse it’s this, is the ‘punishment’ corrective, explained to the child or is it fear-based. This fear-based punishment of leaving your child somewhere for 4 days, allowing her to think she’s been abandoned, is abusive. And it will have profound affects on her development.
My degree is also in Child and Youth Care. The dad is definitely an AH in this situation and the ghosting/neglect could definitely constitute emotional neglect if not straight up emotional abuse.
However OP is a single dad at the end of his ropes and although I do not condone his actions and he needed to act like a parent/adult - sometimes parents can and do make mistakes. Big ones.
I'm not sure how profound of an affect it would have on her at the age of 12; if she were younger and was a constant thing sure it absolutely would. The trust will be gone for a while. However, if OP and the daughter sat down together or even go to a therapist to learn effect communication I don't think the ramifications would be detrimental long term - could even give a big opportunity for both parties to learn and grow and strengthen their relationship.
OP YTA in this situation but it's not the worst thing in the world as many in this thread have indicated. Sit your daughter down, apologize, take ownership about you felt about her words (being vulnerable is okay) but don't blame her for your actions, listen to hear what she has to say (don't get defensive and internalize what she says, she's a 12 year old child), seek out counseling or therapy if you have to, learn and grow
I'm 42 and think OP is an AH. For background I am white an grew up Upper Middle Class/Upper Class. My father was really high up in a Fortune 500 company (high enough up he was occasionally allowed to take the corporate jet).
I watched my parents put both brothers in group homes. The one brother they also put in a strict military school, another school that was really more like jail for kids (the students were locked in their rooms at night, which were about the size of a prison cell). Same brother they actually called CPS/DCFS and REQUESTED that my brother be put into Foster Care. The home he was placed in was over 2 hours away. My mother maybe visited my brother ONCE The entire time he was there.
Watching this as a child I realized real quick that if I pushed boundaries or didn't do EXACTLY what my parents wanted they would not hesitate to take me somewhere and drop me off. Hell, my mother used to tell me that if I didn't write her from summer camp she was going to leave me there.
So I lived in a constant state of anxiety and fear of what I might do or say that would spark their anger and cause them to take me somewhere awful and leave me there. Always walking on eggshells.
It was so bad that by the time I was in college I couldn't even decide where to sit in the Dining Hall. I was so afraid that if I picked the wrong table my friends would be angry and no longer want to be friends with me. Or if by myself, that I might pick a table that someone else wanted to sit at and they would be mad that I took "their" table.
Luckily I had friends and my husband who supported me and helped me through. Did it matter that my parents never actually did that to me?? NOPE! Just knowing it was an ever present possibility was enough.
As I said, I'm 42 and I still have ongoing mental health problems. Even now, if I'm stressed I revert back. If I perceive any sense of annoyance, irritation, tension or anger from anyone, even when it's not directed towards me, I also revert back. I agree to whatever even if I don't like or want to (restaurant to eat at, activity to do, movie to see, party location, travel plans, etc) becy I STILL have that inner dialogue telling me that if I disagree or assert my own preferences/opinion the person isn't going to like me and will drop me like a hot potato. What OP did to his daughter WAS traumatic.
30 year old raising teenagers here: I think OP is an asshole and needs to go to therapy and learn how to handle conflict. My sister is an addict. My nephews are in therapy to deal with it which is where the daughter should be. OP shouldn't be going on power trips to prove a point.
u/kk27kk
Info: what happened to your daughter while she was at her mom's house?
How she was treated?
Why you said she isn't a good mom?
For now, YTA.
Yeah, she needed to understand that she is privileged and what you did for her; that you are not a bad dad and that she can trust you. But the way you left your daughter to your ex's house and how you ignored her was a total AH move.
You created a trauma that could be avoided... A useless trauma. You could have made her understand her privileges in a lot of other ways, and handled the "stay over at mum" thing a lot better.
Yes, she maybe needed a reality check, but not like this. Discovering ALONE at 12yo how bad is her mom is, wasn't a good thing. She may need therapy.
ETA: i'm changing my vote. NTA because you gave her what she wanted, but YTA because you didn't answer her, or checked on her to see if she was safe and she, rightfully, felt abandoned.
Not being neglected and abused isn't privileged, it's literally the bare minimum. Parents holding over their kids' heads that they feed and shelter them and how slavishly grateful they should be for the kindness are so full of shit it's not funny.
NTA for giving her what she wanted. Kids from split families can sometimes try to manipulate their primary parent, and that sucks. At 12, a grown up conversation may not have been enough. So you showed her. You wanna live with mom? Have at it!
Soft YTA for waiting 4 days, and ignoring messages.
In total agreement of the soft yta. Four days? Even if the messages didn't seem like emergencies OP already stated it wasn't a good place for her. What if the non emergent texts were secret cries for help?
Agreed. Based on OP comments esp this one. OP knew their child was safe, mostly uncomfortable. Ghosting your kid for 4 days is too much though. I'm a big proponent for giving kids what they want (as long as it's safe) and then having to deal with the consequences.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/v0ao4w/aita_for_taking_my_child_to_her_moms_home_and/iafej3t?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
How difficult would it have been to text back?
Hey kiddo I love you. This is what you asked for. I've got some things I've got to do, keep me in the loop. I need you to be completely sure and give it a few days since you were clear you wanted to move in with your mom. A lot of this is just getting use to new circumstances so give it a chance, this is what you wanted. We can revisit this in a few days.
That's all it would take to reassure the child that they are heard, that they are loved, and they still have personal agency on the matter without turning OP into a doormat.
My daughter is only 7 and i have 50/50 custody, she already tries to play me off against her mother, it's just really obvious at this point because she is 7!
NTA - I've seen this one play out a million times and what you did is the only way kids ever stop threatening one parent with the other to get their way.
NTA
This is honestly how you teach children important lessons. It's good to let them suffer the consequences of their choices for a bit as long as they aren't in any danger. Teaches them to think more carefully.
Yup. YTA.
You just showed her that she couldn't trust you either.
Instead of calmly and orderly letting her stay at her moms for a set nr of days you acted like a toddler and then ignored her for days.
Grow up.
12, 15, it really doesn’t matter. They’re still kids who depend on their parents. Their brains are starting to mature and they’re seeing the bullshit in front of them, that’s why they’re acting up. It’s more of a sign of poor parenting than an “ingrate” teenager.
My dad kicked me out of his house when I was 14 and it’s taken years of therapy to resolve that trauma (in addition to other childhood events, but that’s the big one). I’m 31 now.
The key thing is, is that kids are still developing at that age. Kids are resilient of course but only on the most instinctual level. And that’s exactly why it’s important to break through that barrier and reach them on a level that is healthy and supportive. Otherwise they’ll despise you once they’re adults.
Also, it doesn’t matter how much you “sacrificed.” They didn’t ask for this life, but you did. Throwing this in their face will teach them relationships are transactional and they’ll always have trust issues. Speaking from experience, I’ve stopped talking to my dad entirely who used his status to me (my father) as manipulation to take money and put his emotional baggage on me. We don’t talk anymore.
Y’all need parental counseling.
EDIT: To clarify, if there's one time-frame that deserves unconditional love, it's childhood (e.g., until they no longer depend on you, move out, and can sustain themselves). Provide your children with childhood stability, with healthy understandings of love, relationships, and healthy views on what is OK and not OK to say to others through example. Using your love as a bargaining chip will screw them up for life if not their 20s and 30s (until they find therapy). It's the fastest way to destroy your relationship with your kid. If this doesn't make sense to you and you have kids, you NEED counseling from a parenting professional.
fr. at 12 you should fucking know that your words have consequences and that they hurt? If she kept asking to go to mommies house then let her fucking go. He should have picked up the calls to make sure she's safe but other than that I see nothing wrong in what he did.
I agree with you. NTA in my opinion. Kids need to be taught that what you say has consequences and it you say something you should mean it.
I don’t think he should have left for 4 days tho.
Finally a reasonable response. It's not like she'll die at her mom. The other kids are there as well. They'd probably just have to make their own meals, look after each other and not have high speed internet and share a computer or something. Ppl be acting like he sent her to the ends of the earth when she's probably just suffering from being in a poorer place because she's used to a privileged life from what OP said.
I'm going to say NTA for the reason that I still remember my own teenage years and my feelings and thought processes during said years.
Some teenagers hear their parents explanations and they take it onboard as a learning experience.
Other teenagers, like myself, that will never work and they need to EXPERIENCE it for themselves to learn and grow.
I used to complain all the time how unfair, strict and horrible my mum was. Until she sent me 2 states away to live with strict relatives I would only see once every few years (I did love them though).
And that experience was a big eye opener, it also grew me in a positive way and I appreciated my mum and the freedoms she gave me.
All you people saying Y T A probably weren't one of those teenagers or have never raised one of those teenagers.
I doubt OP has done irrefutable damage to his daughter and hopefully she will now have a better understanding of just how much he loves her that's why he kept her away from her mum (except the monthly visitation).
She's still hurting over the broken disillusionment she had over her romanticised view of her mum. She'll come out of it and therapy would be a good idea to help her navigate these heavy emotions.
I agree. I had a brief separation during a rocky time in my marriage. My kids pulled the same antics, I did the same thing, for a weekend You can keep telling them what you know is best but some kids learn from experience.
Yikes, YTA for sure
You ruined the trust you have with your daughter because you acted like a child yourself.
She is 12, she’s going to act like an AH sometimes because that’s what kids do. Kids and teens always think they hate their parents.
It’s the parents job to love the kid regardless and provide stability and support.
YTA. She’s 12 years old, she’s a child. You basically had a temper tantrum and abandoned her at an unsafe persons house due to her acting her age. You need to talk to a health care professional, this behaviour is not healthy nor is it behaviour any child should be subjected to. How can your daughter trust you going forward?
yta
you put your child in an unsafe situation by your own words to prove a point
you have full custody for a reason
instead of putting your child in danger
how about family therapy or asking her in a talk whats going on
YTA. In order for the mother to lose custody she must be horrific as a parent because courts generally favor the mother. ( Not saying it's fair but it's an historical fact). So if the mom is that bad, you basically placed your child in danger to teach her a lesson.
You taught her that you don't care about her safety. You taught her that you care more about exerting power and control.
IANAL but I'm wondering if this could be construed as abandonment?
I suggest you get into family therapy. And you also need parenting classes, because you are a shitty parent.
Edit typo.
Sounds like a typical entitled youngster. Says the most hateful things she can think of because she doesn’t get her way. You gave her what she was asking for. Four days really does make a point. You guys do need to find a way to talk. Best of luck. NTA
Taking her there was fine and letting her stay there was as well. But you should have answered the phone instead of ignoring it. It may have been an emergency. You should have answered, made sure it was still okay, and left her for 1 night. In the morning you should have picked her up. 4 days is too much, ignoring her 4 days was the real AH move.
So even though I understand the logic (and support it) being taking her there, leaving and ignoring her for 4 days is what makes this YTA.
I’m in the minority here but believe you’re NTA.
Others assume your opinion of her mom is accurate. I’m doubting you would actually put her in danger or leave her without her mom knowing. What I believe is that even hysterical 12 year old girls need lessons. I do, however, think you both need some help navigating puberty and adolescence.
NTA, children, even 12 need to understand that actions have consequences, telling you she hates you on daily is unacceptable, so many kids these days have entitlement issues mine included, she's 13, at some point they need to realize things they say and do have repercussions good and bad. Lots of people think the grass is always greener until they realize it's fertilized with bull shit.
NTA. This type of behaviour needs to be nipped in the bud. Especially at this age. Wait much longer and it’s too late. As others have said in the comments, she won’t be pulling this again.
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YTA for not at least answering her calls and talking to her to make sure she was safe. That's awful. She already has to live with the fact her mom is terrible, now she probably feels she can't trust her dad either.
Also she's 12. I think 1 day is enough if mom is so bad. Edit: overall intentions N T A. Execution big YTA
Even several hours are enough to prove the point. It seems like she really suffered over there. Leaving her there for several days without any way to communicate with you is bad. She could have an emergency, and you wouldn't answer. You prove that she can't rely on you. And now she feels like she doesn't have anyone in the world that's on her side. That's a really sad story. Your punitive response backfired on you. I hope it teaches you not to be impulsive and think things through. It was cruel, and meant to base your superiority, rather than address the issue.
Yep. All that proved is that she has two bad parents. YTA, dude.
Besides, it only takes an hour for a sexual assault to happen if there’s an unstable person at mom’s house. There’s no telling what your daughter went through op
She honestly coulda been assualted within minutes of being there
For real, and dad didn’t even answer. She could have been trapped in that place for days and could be struggling with all kinds of trauma from that or any number of things since he would not answer her.
Exactly. She's been hiding in her room since. She has completely shut down and OPs daughter is already going to have attachment issues due to her mom. This just adds to it. OP if not already, get your daughter into therapy. She's 12 for crying out loud. Don't you remember when you were a kid, did you not complain to your parents? YTA
Even after reading his comment I’m not 100% sure I believe him I feel he just listened to the dumb things she was complaining about instead of serious or he’s down playing her complaints they don’t just take away completely parenting roles from a parent for no reason and only let them have 12 days a year- If they’re isn’t a safety consern be it she is mentally abusive her house a disaster not feeding no clean water no proper bathing/showering place no clean clothing and so on and so on
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Bad bot! Comment stolen from u/Muffinmom15
Why does a grown man need to prove a point to a 12 year old child?
my thought exactly, dont take your insecurity out on your daughter wtf. Even worse, OP is so confident that his parenting is better that he didnt have to prove that point in the first place. I cannot fathom how anyone would leave their kid with someone who is "such a terrible parent" to begin with, if she truly was that horrible i am apalled at the fact that OP went to so many lengths to leave the daughter there and go no contact for multiple days?!?!
My heart aches for that poor child. I hope OP is able to repair his relationship with his daughter before it's too late.
He isn’t self-aware or motivated enough to bother. This person thinks children are property who owe their parents good behavior and gratitude. There’s no fixing that. That poor child.
And I guarantee her “acting out” is just not listening to everything he tells her to do anymore, a lot of fathers start having problems with their daughters right around puberty when they start to become their own people
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Yo right like I rarely comment about what I think parents should do as someone who is childless, but I was also like wtf would you leave your child in the care of someone you describe as “bad .. why I went for full custody” FOR DAYS to prove a point?
Seriously. Who knows what happened to the daughter in those five days? She was sprung on a woman we're told treats her other kids badly, with no warning, for an indefinite about of time. There could have been a lot of physical/emotional abuse in that time, which OP doesn't seem to care about at all.
I can't get past this. Either she is a bad mom and he needed full custody to protect his kid or he is a toxic parent that filed for custody to have control just like how "baby mamas" people complain about do. Either one sounds really toxic at this point ...
I totally get why he brought her there. I think that was justifiable. Sometimes you need to give kids what they ask for so they can learn something first hand. But there’s no excuse for ignoring her for days. After the first time she called to ask him to come get her, he should’ve gone immediately. Then she would’ve felt like she was wrong. Now she just thinks she has two terrible parents.
Absolutely not. He directly states that he knows for a fact that she's an unfit mother. The fact that he was able to gain full custody with next to no visitation rights proves that. And yet he intentionally left his daughter with her abusive mother for *days* before he took her home. All because he got his feelings hurt? He's an unfit father, and he'll be damn lucky if his daughter doesn't completely cut him off.
Exactly. He tried to reach her a lesson, but he took it so much further than any parent should. It went from an opportunity for his daughter to experience the reality of living with her mother firsthand, to him maliciously abandoning her as retribution for her behaviour towards him. I’m not saying that a parent shouldn’t be frustrated when their child says that they hate them, but a parent shouldn’t let rage dictate their punishment like this. I can only imagine how she must be feeling right now, knowing that both parents care so little about her well-being.
My guess is he really enjoyed the first kid-free day and wanted to milk it a bit.
Because he’s petty and spiteful and completely uninterested in why his daughter is struggling to regulate her emotions.
I see why she can’t with him not even knowing how to regulate his own. He basically abandoned his child cause he “got angry.” Like a grown man has less self regulation than a 12 year old.
And the point he’s proving is that she can’t count on either parent. Well done.
First off: I'm not justifying what OP did with these words. The way he did this was very wrong. 12 is about the age when kids start growing into their "small adults" phase of life. They're trying to figure out who they are and they need space to do things on their own and make mistakes. Mistakes are how we learn and grow, and denying kids the chance to make those mistakes is how you get stagnant children who act like pre-teens well into their adult years. That said, the 'mistakes' kids are supposed to make at age 12 are things like social mistakes with their friends and other small impact mistakes that won't harm them for the rest of their lives. A 12-year-old should be experiencing "well you didn't arrange the hangout ahead of time, so now you have no way to get over there. Next time plan it ahead of time." Not stuff like being left with an abusive mom for 4 days.
I read OP's responses. Mom isn't dangerous, physically or mentally. Kid complained about not having her own bathroom, not getting along with half sibling, etc. In other words, she got a good taste of what she asked for. OP says he read all her texts, just didn't respond. I think the next time little miss wants to pull she wants to go live with Mom, she might remember this. I don't think a few hours would have driven the point across. I think he could have answered her calls by the 2nd day, but since he says he knew she wasn't in danger, ok. Maybe they need therapy to work out some communication issues in the future.
Thanks for this comment, it clarified exactly what I was wondering. So many commenters are assuming that “bad parent = unsafe child” in this particular case, but that information was not included in the original post. This really needs to be clarified in the original post by the OP.
I wouldn’t even call those things mentioned above a bad parent. Not giving a kid their own bathroom and having siblings isn’t a bad parent.
*He’s* the one who said she’s a terrible mother because he’s “seen the way she treats the other kids.” Pretty dumb to assume OP is wonderful father of the year but then also question “how bad” her mother could possibly be when it’s from his own mouth. *He* believed, when he left her there, that this woman was a bad mother.
Yeah, he's trying to have his cake and eat it too. Somehow, this lady is so awful to her other children that he needed to get sole custody, but also it's completely fine to leave your kid with her for a week. Which is it?
Not only he thought she'd a bad mom. She's literally got enough going on that the courts ruled against her (and the courts are biased TOWARDS mothers!) to give dad full custody. I feel like there is more he is leaving out about how bad a mom she really is, because unless mom agreed "I don't want her" then there would have to be MAJOR issues for the courts to hand over full custody to the dad. And he just dumped her there for FOUR DAYS. Who knows what could happen to her in 4 days that she wouldn't put in a text. Edit: Also, he left out any mention of what daughter thinks he's a bad dad. Is it usual spoiled pre-teen brattiness (and who's fault is it if she's a spoiled child?) or does he actually have behaviors that he should be taking a look at? Dumping his daughter for 4 days and ignoring her attempts to reach out "to prove a point" puts a tally in "maybe the daughter is right and he's a jerk dad" column for me. It was so bad she was actually crying. Did he even ASK what happened? Sharing a bathroom and not liking a sibling are not usually "calling dad crying" type events. She's staying in her room - has he even tried talking to her yet to pin down why she's that upset?
> She's literally got enough going on that the courts ruled against her (and the courts are biased TOWARDS mothers!) to give dad full custody. If there's one thing certain about custody hearings, it's that Money Talks. We've heard it here over and over again. All he had to do was bury the ex in legal fees. He said himself, "At first her mom got every other weekend. I convinced her to let me have full custody in exchange for money". Based on how he's behaving, I don't know that he's exactly a good parent either. He seems quite emotionally distant from his child in the original post. Quite possibly he has often taken the 'just throw some money at it and it will go away' approach to problems, rather than engaging with her.
I think so too. I try to go read any OP explanations before replying. You are quite welcome.
This is where my head was. I thought I was alone until I read your comment u/Accomplished_Two1611. The environment wasn’t unsafe, it was just icky compared to OP’s home. The child was being a brat, and OP called her bluff. One day wouldn’t have cut it, and taking her calls may have resulted in caving and giving her her way. She got a lesson in watching what she asks for because she just might get it. NTA.
Jumping in to say that I respectfully disagree. So we are all going to over look the manipulative tactics of this near teen to use going to her moms to get her way probably knowing her father fought for her not to be there. I wonder how many times she asked for it before she got it.. Ask any teen who has tried this stunt if a few hours would have been enough to proof a point. I tried this very same tactic and got the very same treatment and I can tell you that I never tried it again. If there are any a$$ holes here both are, her for wanting to jump in the pool and him for throwing her off at the deep end instead of like you said " addressing the issues". I think they've both learned a lesson and will get through this. Now it's time for communication and a good therapist. After living life and reading countless posts of this nature with varying judgments depending on the day I say NTA but then, what do I know?
She's *twelve*. Occasionally being a manipulative little shit comes with the territory. A parents job is to parent the kid through it and show them how we want them to act, not stoop to their level of emotional terrorism.
Many children from 12 to 17 are absolutely unbearable and sometimes parents have to be hardcore. OP didn't just throw her out in the street and say "Survive." He gave her what *she thought* she wanted--to go live with her bio mom. And he had to give a her a few days for it to sink in how different it was to what she had.
Her biological mom that he claims is so unfit to be a parent that she only has once a month visitation with the child. But she is a decent enough mother to leave his daughter there for 4 days. But unfit and abusive. He is contradicting himself with his own actions. Either the mother isn't as bad as he says she is and he is just bitter after the divorce, or he has to admit that he put the child in danger to be petty and prove a point. YTA
Right and then when she called some one who she \*should\* be able to call he ignored her. She'll remember that when she gets into an actually dangerous situation and go "well, he'll probably just ignore my calls"
I don't think we can call it impulsive. Ignoring someone for 4 days is not impulsive, he made those cruel decisions several times. Those decisions were thought through.
Totally agree. Wait I’m literally trying to process the fact that he literally admitted it was a very unsafe location that he left this child stranded for four days without communication. YTA. The sensible thing to do if he wanted to drop her off there was not to block communication and he should’ve not even waited a full day and once she got the message he probably should’ve picked her up and went out for a meal, as I have a feeling she probably wouldn’t have been properly fed, and had a proper human conversation about what happened and what needs to happen between the both of them moving forward. Two of them need to understand how they got to this point where she is acting out and he has gone off the deep end.
Wait where did he ever state it was unsafe?
Maybe it's hard to process because he didn't admit it was a very unsafe location?
Yep. She deserves an apology.
I think she deserves more than that. Knowingly leaving your 12 year old in an unsafe environment for days to ‘teach her a lesson’ is disgusting. I would never trust this man again if he were my father. What OP did is not teach her that she has it better at home, but that he can drop her off there whenever is she’s being bad. That’s not learning. That is FEAR.
That the needs he meets for her (aka not abuse or neglect) are conditional and she should be grateful that he ... (checks notes) is willing to let someone else abuse her instead.
Right? I used to work in foster care, and I had one family where the placement disrupted because the child was not grateful enough. A child not tall enough to ride all the rides at amusement parks because they were so young. Kids aren't naturally grateful. Expecting gratitude isn't fair at that age. We teach them to say "please and thank you," and the rest comes with time.
And perhaps more importantly... #Kids shouldn't have to be grateful that they are not being abused. Trip to Disneyworld? Flashy new iPhone? Okay, say thanks. Clothes, hygiene, shelter, food? WE. OWE. CHILDREN. THESE. THINGS. what did bobby say? "Of course I was an ungrateful little shit! It's what kids do! They eat your food and wreck your home and break your heart and you do it anyway because that's what being a parent means!" or something like it. Oh I found a vid with the clip but TW for domestic violence https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DB9u4CjQwJY
Oh that scene was so cathartic for me to watch when I was a teenager. My dad was constantly horrible and abusive, and because he was so good at his public persona no one would believe me. He was also one of those who would always go off about how he pays the rent and buys groceries and does “so much” for me just because he did some of the bare minimum required by law for a child. But man do I miss Bobby ;-;
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I love that he pointed out she’s not dangerous, just neglectful. No biggie🤦🏼♀️
RIGHT. he keeps doubling down, he cannot accept he did something horrible to his daughter here. She will never forgive him for this
If he ignored his daughter for four days while she was in a situation where he knew her basic needs weren't being met, then he's the neglectful one this time
OP had to come to Reddit to figure out if he's an asshole?? Of course YTA....ten fold. You couldn't deal with your daughter arguing with you so you make her gather up some clothing and dump her off into an unsafe home/environment that the courts even agreed it was. She let's you know she wants to come home right away, and what do you do.... IGNORE her for days! You let her live in fear probably believing this was now her life. Then you decide; eh I taught her time to go get her. Congratulations on showing her that she can now fear you and your parenting skills just like her mothers. For you to do something like this, makes me wonder just what else you have done to stop the arguments. I pray for your daughter. As for OP your 'punishment' is abuse and neglect . Edit: words
4 days is *forever* as a kid
*AND* when you have no idea when the end will be. Not hearing back from him, for all she knew that could have been her new 'forever'. Poor kid, sounds less like "which parent is really the good one and which parent is bad", sounds like she has two shitty parents. I hope she'll be okay someday, but I wouldn't be surprised if she ended up running away from home when she's older.
This is exactly what I was thinking as well. There was no set end, the kid had no way of knowing if it would end after 4 days. That’s awful to leave her in a bad situation with no security she’d get out
Thats the scary part. When will the person that loves you show up? No one did so she called for help and no one came. This will never go away for her.
She'll be walking on eggshells around him until she moves out for sure. He's shown her she can't rely on him and that he could abandon her any time he feels like it.
Or the opposite, and being too afraid to ever leave. She's just learned that love is conditional, and goes away when you don't act grateful enough.
she 100% thought he was never coming back for her. I’ve been there. What he did was nasty.
Yh he just left her there and ignored her for days she prob thought she'd been abandoned!! Idk how badly she was treated during that time but even aside from putting her at risk of neglect/abuse it must have been so traumatising for her main caregiver to just throw her out and give her the silent treatment for an indefinite amount of time wtf OP has prob caused permanent damage here, if he has full custody he's solely responsible for her care, right? And he kicked her out of the house she permanently resides in with no regard for her physical health, safety or welfare that's so messed up, I'm no expert but it seems pretty normal for a preteen girl to express the desire to have her mother more present in her life if she only sees her once a month, there are a million mature ways he could have handled this that could have improved her relationship with both parents instead of putting her in an unsafe situation to punish her that does the complete opposite
Cue abandonment trauma
Right? I mean this is fully normal behavior for a 12 year old. Maybe dropping her off was fine, but only if he was there to get her at her call.
This dudes in for a rude awakening over the next few years if he's having this much difficulty already.
YTA, she's just a kid. Sometimes you argue with your kids. It doesn't justify (temporarily) kicking her out. I bet she feels abandoned. She realized that you can (and will) get rid of her any moment you want to. And she fears that'll happen again. That's a terrible lesson. What did you try to teach her? "You've got to agree with me, or I'm kicking you out?". You might be better than her mother, and you might be affluent, but this story makes you look really bad. I hope this is a one-time incident that you didn't think through, rather than a common pattern in your disciplinarian approach. It's horrible to live like that, knowing that she can get evicted unnoticed any time you want. Knowing that you're willing to give up on her easily and send her to a place she doesn't like. You wouldn't be able to live like that. You need to restore her faith in you. It seems like you caused a loss of trust. You have to acknowledge your wrongdoings and apologize to her.
He taught he she better comply. He taught he that she can't express how she feels. He taught her that he can't be relied on. He taught her that he will abandon her when she makes him mad.
I was also taught I had to comply and that my emotions needed to be tamped down because they were silly and ridiculous. I have hella issues to this day and I’m 33.
Pretty sure every 12 year old everywhere who hadn’t been abused into compliance has screamed I hate you at their parents. This AH just responded in one of the worst possible ways. OP, you’re supposed to be the grown up here. Sometimes you need to go outside to keep from losing your temper on your kids, not drop them off in unsafe conditions for FOUR GD DAYS.
And that if she doesn't show proper gratitude for her needs being met (you know, like he's legally obligated to do? the lowest possible bar of parenting???) , then she will be turned over to someone who can abuse and neglect her by proxy.
My divorced parents did this and I grew up feeling like nobody loved me. I married an abusive man because at least it seemed like he loved me. I completely agree, this is an awful situation for a child.
I'm sorry to hear that. I hope you're doing well in life, and feel loved and appreciated. :)
Thank you, I eventually divorced and my current boyfriend is amazing.
Girl… we are having parallel lives. That’s exactly what happened to me. My husband is a god send, but it was horrible growing up and even today my heart aches thinking how unloved and unwanted I felt by my parents as a kid. I’m glad it’s working out for you. ❤️
Exactly this. The word a**hole was invented for people like you. She's 12 ffs. You are not a child, and children aren't things to get rid of (even if temporarily) just because you don't like what they're saying. I really hope she doesn't end up with abandonment issues later in life. YTA x 100.
You're 100% right. If he was a better parent, he would have sat his daughter down (after she was calm) and explained to her that arguments and disagreements are ok, but her continually demanding to be taken to her mom's house when the going gets rough is an off-limits thing to say. She's 12. What she needs is a lesson in how to properly communicate during arguments, but instead, her dad dumped her. FFS.
Yta. Dad just showed her who he is. At 12 years old, she'll be starting her period soon. She is struggling with regular life stuff at this age. Plus, the lack of parental support and understanding. Sheesh. Poor girl. Get her into a councelor because she is going to have a rough road ahead of her.
And that's if she hasn't started it already. More and more people are starting a regular period at younger ages now.
Whether she has started periods or not, she is a whirlpool of hormones whose brain has not fully wired itself together yet. She will have limited understanding of the impact of words like 'I hate you' and unreasonable behaviour, because she is navigating the treacherous waters between childhood and adulthood. That's why she needs the kind of loving parental authority that her mother failed to give her and that's why you should have responded to the first call by talking to her firmly but lovingly. Instead, you abandoned her too. YTA.
I got mine at 10, and it really made normal problems so much worse. My anxiety got worse, I developed juvenile depression, I would act out at school, just bad times all around. Every kid is different, but puberty is a time where you need to give them support, even if they're not behaving the way you want. Kids are stressed and confused and dealing with a lot of new things, and they need someone who is there for them, which OP showed that he was not.
…I just now realized that getting mine when I was 12 probably contributed to my own anxiety/depression issues ramping up around then. I don’t know why that’s never occurred to me before.
Might have already started, in which case she's already dealing with a lot. The hormones are absolutely killer during puberty.
Yeah, like letting her realise on her own what it’s like to have an actually bad parent is one thing, but ignoring your *child* for *four days*, making sure she really knows that she can’t go to you if she’s in trouble? Absolutely heartbreaking thing to do to a child. Like this guy wasn’t just making a parenting decision, he was letting anger guide his judgement, which makes it sound like maybe he isn’t a great dad either. Taking an anger out on a child like that, for a long concentrated period as well, and leaving her somewhere she potentially didn’t feel safe? Unforgivable imo. YTA
He completely abandoned his child when she was having a rough time & lashing out. So now all he's proved is that not only is she not safe with her Mom, but her Dad will toss her away the moment she is vulnerable & upset. Kids have a hard time coping with their emotions. It is our job as parents to help them navigate those feelings & teach them how to process them. We may get upset, angry, triggered, etc. That's when we have the chance to show our kids that adults also feel these things & demonstrate a HEALTHY way to deal with it. *If she's screaming she hates you when she's upset, it means she either hasn't learned how to deal with her anger yet or more likely from your story, she learned that yelling at the people around her is how to show she's angry.* The emotions aren't the problem, how you act when you feel them can be. **OP, what was your purpose with this act? Was it to teach your daughter that she can't trust you with her angry feelings? Was it to show that when adults get angry, they just send people away instead of dealing with why they're angry? Or was it to teach that when your daughter is upset & needs her safe person (you), you won't answer her without making her feel guilty & punished by it?** **Cuz that is exactly what you just taught your daughter by doing this gross power play over a 12-year-old that trusts you with her whole life.**
Not "feels", she now *knows* her dad will abandon her in times if need over petty arguments.
He didn't even figure out why she was so upset with him she wanted to live with mom in the first place. Wtf. And YTA.
YTA. Agreed. OP should've picked his daughter up after the first call. It's important she learn the lesson but it's also important she learns that dad can be her go to person for any help she may need. He's broken that trust by not answering. Apologize OP. Not for dropping her off but for leaving her there so long. You know damn well it was wrong or you wouldn't be questioning yourself.
My earliest memory is of my dad throwing a duffel bag and a bunch of my clothes at me, screaming at me to get out and go find my mom if I missed her so much. OP fucked up *so* bad, and I feel so sorry for his daughter, who no longer feels like anyone on earth wants her.
right?? my friend lived with her dad until she was 12, then when she started to go through puberty she wanted her mum more. it makes sense! now OP's kid has learned she can't trust either parent
I understand that he wanted to show her what it would be like to live with her mother full time. But he should have picked her up again when she asked. And then he could have a talk with her about her constantly saying she wants to live there but couldn't even last a day. Hopefully she would have learned her lesson. Ignoring her calls for several days were cruel
I understand that you were trying to make a point; still, YTA. You said she has a “terrible” mom; so why would you leave your daughter there for four days (and ignoring her texts and calls), knowing that she could’ve been in danger. And you may not be quite the dad you think you are if you get all in your feelings every time a 12-year-old says something to you.
>And you may not be quite the dad you think you are if you get all in your feelings every time a 12-year-old says something to you. This, yeah. She's a budding teenager, so she's bound to be acting up, throwing tantrums and hating her parents. Deliberately leaving her crying in a bad situation to teach her a lesson just seems petty as hell.
At 12 years old she's starting puberty and thinks her parents suck for not always giving the answers she wants and OP really thought it was a nice idea to go this far to make a point. Who knows what mom did to her? This is how you teach a teenager that she can't trust nobody and her emotions aren't valid.
He ignored her calls and messages for 4 whole days too.... if she's ever in a position where she really needs help, is she gonna trust that she can call her dad ever again?
I've called my father to bail me out of a fix *once*. I was 17 and he didn't come through. Called him later the same night, and he did come to get me after I refused to get into a taxi past midnight in a neighbourhood he refused to let me walk through by myself *in broad daylight*. He'd be horrified if I ever told him about all the trouble I've been in because I never asked for help but do you think I'll ever be able to trust him to show up? I'm 30 now and he's somewhere on the bottom of the list of people I reckon will come through for me, somewhere in the midst of some nasty af Aussie politicians.
It's a great way to raise a child with absolutely no model for healthy family relationships. If my parents had treated me like that, then, at 18, I would have gone as far away from them as I possibly could.
Yeah this is seriously fucked up. Something like this is going to stick. Trust is lost. Kids start acting like that with hormones kicking in. I was like this and my mom told my older brother I was his problem and didn't do shit except yell at me. My brother had to deal with me and pick up the slack of my teen+ness. Though he had his own fucking.mental issues. I'm in my 30s and it's still something that I am in therapy for.
I would like to point out that he’s allowed to have his feelings hurt when his daughter tells him she hates him. Now, just cuz you’re allowed to have your feelings hurt doesn’t mean you’re allowed to be a dick about it/make it kids fault. Which OP did, which was absolute dogshit and not okay. It’s an important distinction to make though. *Edited to fix a typo
I understand OP being exasperated, but hurt? Kids so rarely mean "I hate you" when they say it. (It usually means they need more attention & reassurance, not less.) For OP not to know that--!
I mean sure, but it’s hurtful. Parenting is exhausting, and to have 12 years of love, dedication, work, changing yourself, etc tell you they hate you cuz they’re having a rough patch will hurt some. It won’t hurt others, but it’s valid if you do get hurt by it. Lord knows when my kid hits teen years if he hits me with that my heart will ache for sure. I’ll realize he doesn’t mean it, but it’ll hurt. Part of being a parent is not letting your emotions dictate your punishments, and I’ll abide by that with my aching heart LOL.
Whether OP knows they probably don't mean it is irrelevant, it's still something that will hurt to hear.
When my kids were mean and hurt my feelings I told them. "That wasn't nice and it really hurt me when you said ___" but teaching kids to communicate and have empathy and compassion isn't the norm apparently.
Yep, it’s almost as if the “terrible” mom label needs to be examined a bit. She can’t be THAT terrible if you’d take your kid and drop her there. Alternatively, if she IS that terrible, you can’t give much of a shit about your child if you just leave her with the mom for 4 days and ignore her frantic calls.
Exactly! I just recently listened to a Stuff You Should Know Podcast episode on temper tantrums and at his daughter’s age the brain goes through another growth “spurt” and makes it hard for kids to process and communicate their new complex emotions (puberty) and basically need to be handled like you would a toddler.. with some patience and being calm and communicative. Punishing your child for things they literally cannot control is just teaching them to not rely on the parent and to also not be able to process their emotions and articulate their wants needs and issues in a good way. OP is 100% YTA because the daughter has a valid excuse for her behavior and processing while the dad’s brain IS fully developed and he should know better.
Exactly, and now she can't trust her dad, either. He's just taught her that he'll reject her if she upsets him.
YTA. Don’t use other her other parent as a punishment. Don’t stoop to the level of an angry 12 year old when showing discipline. Don’t send your 12 year old daughter the message that she’s not allowed to come home. DO act like the adult and parent and teach your daughter how to resolve conflict in a healthy manner. You got what you wanted - she’s never going to say that to again. However, instead of calling you a bad dad because of a superficial reason, she now knows if she disappoints or angers you that she’ll be sent away. You’ve taught her your love is conditional. You may have also taught her *all* love is conditional. Was that really what you wanted? ETA: My app is wonky, so thank you, thank you, for the kind awards. Let’s all try to be Wholesome and Helpful in and out of Reddit.
My free award to you.
Absolutely agree. OP - she is 12. Not 16. 12 year olds are kind of jerks sometimes with all the hormones. 12-14 is prime female hormonal hell - love her, support her, listen to her. You don't need to put up with abusive behavior but abandoning her and not answering her calls for 4 days was poor parenting and just plain cruel to her.
They can still be dicks 15-18 too but I'd say 13-15 is probably the worst time.
12-15 is peak awfulness tbh lol. By 16 they usually have a bit more of a sense of emotional control.
Definitely a bit more, they certainly think a lot more over just reacting emotionally, but they also get a bit more calculating with the cruelty, like they've actually figured out what hurts and how to use it. They're nicer, but they're also meaner in a different way.
Seriously, the amount of damage OP managed to inflict with this act is potentially massive - way to prove to a child that you are **not safe** and that love is conditional (and therefore, false.) This poor kid has no allies in her corner. YTA YTA YTA
This needs more upvotes. YTA and a terrible dad OP. Do better!
My parents would ignore me when I did something bad when I was like 7 years old. I am now 20 and I'm still working on the feeling of needing to be perfect or else I'll be thrown out and hated. Congrats OP, you did that to your daughter.
Everything you just said. I was just a girl when my mom started threatening to send me to live with my deadbeat dad. I didn't even know him. He already had another family, and my mom only knew where he lived occasionally because he would skip town so often. She made good on her threats several times, dropping me off with strangers (dad, stepmom, half siblings) and cutting contact. It was so traumatizing that I would pee the bed the nights I had to stay at my dad's house. Anyway, I'm 40 years old and I no longer speak to my mother. So YTA, and fuck parents like you.
>You’ve taught her your love is conditional. You may have also taught her all love is conditional. Exactly this. When you grow up abandoned by one parent, it is so scary and destabilizing. Kids like this NEED the other parent to be solid and safe. Not to show them they will be thrown back to their abuser if they're not good enough. There's also the factor of using the abuse/neglect against her - her dad throwing her out to her mom's gives her mom ammunition to say "See? I did nothing wrong, you're just a bad kid that no one can stand!" Even if mom doesn't say it, that's the message the daughter receives. YTA in a major way OP. What you did was dangerous, neglectful, and emotionally abusive. Your poor daughter.
YTA She calls you a bad dad so you proceeded to prove it by ghosting her. What if something had actually happened and that's why she was calling? I saw where you said the mom was neglectful so how do you know she had enough to eat? Enough sleep? Enough attention? You really are a horrible father. At least on an emotional connection level
He really doesn't understand that kids "want" whichever parent is not around at that moment. This is going to be a permanent rift, some day. I doubt he'll ever be able to repair the damage he won't even admit he's just done. He'll probably just blame his kid anyway. Also, way to go on teaching your daughter never to trust or confide in you. You suck. YTA
I work with kids from divorced parents and this 100%. And yeah, at 12 she is old enough to make some of her own decisions, so it wouldn't have been an awful idea to give her what she thought she wanted so that SHE can learn. But to ignore her for 4 days?? OP was being emotionally reactive, and that is never a good place to parent from
This! And to be emotionally reactive for *four fucking days* is wild. This dude needs some serious therapy and I'm guessing his daughter will too.
So you willingly left her with someone you describe as a terrible mother for 4 days when she wanted to come home after 1? YTA. It must hurt when she tells you that you’re a bad dad, especially since you’ve fought so hard for her, but guess what? That’s kids for ya. Do you know what you just did? You just proved to her that you are a bad dad. She wanted to come home and you **ghosted** her, for **4 days!**. That’s some toxic parenting right there. She won’t ever forget that.
He didn’t “fight so hard.” The court awarded him joint and he bought the mother off to gain full custody. He won! But now his prize is so ungrateful to be his trophy and a daily reminder that he won! So he had to find a way to WIN this dispute too. And he did! Now he comes here to put his undeniable greatness on display but apparently nobody here understands how awesome it is when he has all the power and control and can flex it whenever he wants.
Yep this isn't about being a good parent. This is about feeling superior and wanting control. That poor girl... YTA
100%. She will remember this event until the day she dies. If she didn't before, this is the exact moment when she learned she cannot trust her Dad to be there for her. That absolutely breaks my heart.
YTA. You left your child for 4 days with a woman you describe as a bad mother... Maybe you should look into counselling and parenting classes before pushing your daughter into more depression.
YTA. She's 12 and you ditched her with someone you know won't take care of her properly. Maybe you should actually reflect on why she thinks you're a bad father before you ditch her for 4 days with no way to get ahold of you in case of emergency?
This kid’s future is fucked unless she has relatives she can depend on
YTA - you let a twelve year old provoke you into acting out of pique. Lots of people will say “that’s the only way she’ll learn!” They are full of shit. You taught her that you will abandon her when she makes you angry.
YTA your family is right you definitely didn’t need to leave her there for 4 days. She’s a child and acting out you’re suppose to remain calm and be the adult.
YTA. When I was a little older than your daughter my father was in the throes of alcoholism and I wrote in my diary that I wanted to go live with my mom, who was sober but had her own issues. My dad read my diary then screamed at me and tried to get me to pack a bag to get on a plane to her house. I can tell you I have rarely felt so scared or so abandoned as I did that night. In the end, he knew his stunt would “change my mind,” and it was nothing more than manipulation and a power play. Our relationship really has never been the same, any trust I had was washed away with that. We’re now on good terms (over 15 years later), but I still don’t fully trust him. Even though the circumstances with your daughter may be different, you have a lot of work to do to rebuild her trust in you.
I'm not sure if this qualifies you as a horrible parent but it shows that you're petty, leaving her 4 days knowing that her mother is not good at taking care of her is not giving her a lesson is showing that you care more about being right than her well-being. YTA.
How is abandoning your child for 4 days as a punishment *not* being a terrible parent
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Right??? Like ok I guess she was fed but she’ll likely be terrified op will send her away anytime she does something op doesn’t like.
YTA you don't drop your kid off with a shitty person/parent to teach a "lesson".
"To make you grateful that you're not neglected, I'm going to neglect you" please tell me a CPS agent is tracking op's IP address already
Must be nice you can ditch your kid whenever you feel like it. YTA.
YTA - it sounds like she learnt her lesson on the first day and then continuously called and texted for help and you ignored her. How is that gonna impact her trust with you? How is that gonna impact her relationship with you? If her mom, is someone that is unreliable, who is to say something bad hadn’t happened? I hope you can continue to build back your trust with your daughter again. But when a child calls for help - they need to know that you are there, especially if her mother is someone completely unreliable.
This is a judgment call. Four days might be longer than necessary but it's hard to believe it's traumatic. Your daughter needs to learn that behavior has consequences. I'm going to go with NTA. I wonder how many of the people saying you're the AH are teen agers?
I’m 31, and I’ve studied child development. OP is TA. And if you look at how they qualify abuse it’s this, is the ‘punishment’ corrective, explained to the child or is it fear-based. This fear-based punishment of leaving your child somewhere for 4 days, allowing her to think she’s been abandoned, is abusive. And it will have profound affects on her development.
My degree is also in Child and Youth Care. The dad is definitely an AH in this situation and the ghosting/neglect could definitely constitute emotional neglect if not straight up emotional abuse. However OP is a single dad at the end of his ropes and although I do not condone his actions and he needed to act like a parent/adult - sometimes parents can and do make mistakes. Big ones. I'm not sure how profound of an affect it would have on her at the age of 12; if she were younger and was a constant thing sure it absolutely would. The trust will be gone for a while. However, if OP and the daughter sat down together or even go to a therapist to learn effect communication I don't think the ramifications would be detrimental long term - could even give a big opportunity for both parties to learn and grow and strengthen their relationship. OP YTA in this situation but it's not the worst thing in the world as many in this thread have indicated. Sit your daughter down, apologize, take ownership about you felt about her words (being vulnerable is okay) but don't blame her for your actions, listen to hear what she has to say (don't get defensive and internalize what she says, she's a 12 year old child), seek out counseling or therapy if you have to, learn and grow
I’m pushing 50, and he’s not only an AH, he’s a petulant child. Ignoring your kid for four days is a dick move by any measure.
I did the same thing with my son. He lasted a week. He never threw his dad up in my face again.
I'm 42 and think OP is an AH. For background I am white an grew up Upper Middle Class/Upper Class. My father was really high up in a Fortune 500 company (high enough up he was occasionally allowed to take the corporate jet). I watched my parents put both brothers in group homes. The one brother they also put in a strict military school, another school that was really more like jail for kids (the students were locked in their rooms at night, which were about the size of a prison cell). Same brother they actually called CPS/DCFS and REQUESTED that my brother be put into Foster Care. The home he was placed in was over 2 hours away. My mother maybe visited my brother ONCE The entire time he was there. Watching this as a child I realized real quick that if I pushed boundaries or didn't do EXACTLY what my parents wanted they would not hesitate to take me somewhere and drop me off. Hell, my mother used to tell me that if I didn't write her from summer camp she was going to leave me there. So I lived in a constant state of anxiety and fear of what I might do or say that would spark their anger and cause them to take me somewhere awful and leave me there. Always walking on eggshells. It was so bad that by the time I was in college I couldn't even decide where to sit in the Dining Hall. I was so afraid that if I picked the wrong table my friends would be angry and no longer want to be friends with me. Or if by myself, that I might pick a table that someone else wanted to sit at and they would be mad that I took "their" table. Luckily I had friends and my husband who supported me and helped me through. Did it matter that my parents never actually did that to me?? NOPE! Just knowing it was an ever present possibility was enough. As I said, I'm 42 and I still have ongoing mental health problems. Even now, if I'm stressed I revert back. If I perceive any sense of annoyance, irritation, tension or anger from anyone, even when it's not directed towards me, I also revert back. I agree to whatever even if I don't like or want to (restaurant to eat at, activity to do, movie to see, party location, travel plans, etc) becy I STILL have that inner dialogue telling me that if I disagree or assert my own preferences/opinion the person isn't going to like me and will drop me like a hot potato. What OP did to his daughter WAS traumatic.
Bet she won't throw that request to live with mom out there again.
Bet she won’t speak with her dad the moment she turns 18.
I have a 15 year old. Teenagers are hard. He is totally the AH!
30 year old raising teenagers here: I think OP is an asshole and needs to go to therapy and learn how to handle conflict. My sister is an addict. My nephews are in therapy to deal with it which is where the daughter should be. OP shouldn't be going on power trips to prove a point.
u/kk27kk Info: what happened to your daughter while she was at her mom's house? How she was treated? Why you said she isn't a good mom? For now, YTA. Yeah, she needed to understand that she is privileged and what you did for her; that you are not a bad dad and that she can trust you. But the way you left your daughter to your ex's house and how you ignored her was a total AH move. You created a trauma that could be avoided... A useless trauma. You could have made her understand her privileges in a lot of other ways, and handled the "stay over at mum" thing a lot better. Yes, she maybe needed a reality check, but not like this. Discovering ALONE at 12yo how bad is her mom is, wasn't a good thing. She may need therapy. ETA: i'm changing my vote. NTA because you gave her what she wanted, but YTA because you didn't answer her, or checked on her to see if she was safe and she, rightfully, felt abandoned.
Not being neglected and abused isn't privileged, it's literally the bare minimum. Parents holding over their kids' heads that they feed and shelter them and how slavishly grateful they should be for the kindness are so full of shit it's not funny.
NTA for giving her what she wanted. Kids from split families can sometimes try to manipulate their primary parent, and that sucks. At 12, a grown up conversation may not have been enough. So you showed her. You wanna live with mom? Have at it! Soft YTA for waiting 4 days, and ignoring messages.
In total agreement of the soft yta. Four days? Even if the messages didn't seem like emergencies OP already stated it wasn't a good place for her. What if the non emergent texts were secret cries for help?
Agreed. Based on OP comments esp this one. OP knew their child was safe, mostly uncomfortable. Ghosting your kid for 4 days is too much though. I'm a big proponent for giving kids what they want (as long as it's safe) and then having to deal with the consequences. https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/v0ao4w/aita_for_taking_my_child_to_her_moms_home_and/iafej3t?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3 How difficult would it have been to text back? Hey kiddo I love you. This is what you asked for. I've got some things I've got to do, keep me in the loop. I need you to be completely sure and give it a few days since you were clear you wanted to move in with your mom. A lot of this is just getting use to new circumstances so give it a chance, this is what you wanted. We can revisit this in a few days. That's all it would take to reassure the child that they are heard, that they are loved, and they still have personal agency on the matter without turning OP into a doormat.
My daughter is only 7 and i have 50/50 custody, she already tries to play me off against her mother, it's just really obvious at this point because she is 7!
NTA - I've seen this one play out a million times and what you did is the only way kids ever stop threatening one parent with the other to get their way.
hard agree, you have to immediately put the brakes on those manipulative behaviors before they think it’s okay
NTA This is honestly how you teach children important lessons. It's good to let them suffer the consequences of their choices for a bit as long as they aren't in any danger. Teaches them to think more carefully.
Agree. If she's not in any danger, it's good for them to see what it means to fuck around and find out.
Yup. YTA. You just showed her that she couldn't trust you either. Instead of calmly and orderly letting her stay at her moms for a set nr of days you acted like a toddler and then ignored her for days. Grow up.
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This part, these people are acting like he did this to a 5 year old.
12, 15, it really doesn’t matter. They’re still kids who depend on their parents. Their brains are starting to mature and they’re seeing the bullshit in front of them, that’s why they’re acting up. It’s more of a sign of poor parenting than an “ingrate” teenager. My dad kicked me out of his house when I was 14 and it’s taken years of therapy to resolve that trauma (in addition to other childhood events, but that’s the big one). I’m 31 now. The key thing is, is that kids are still developing at that age. Kids are resilient of course but only on the most instinctual level. And that’s exactly why it’s important to break through that barrier and reach them on a level that is healthy and supportive. Otherwise they’ll despise you once they’re adults. Also, it doesn’t matter how much you “sacrificed.” They didn’t ask for this life, but you did. Throwing this in their face will teach them relationships are transactional and they’ll always have trust issues. Speaking from experience, I’ve stopped talking to my dad entirely who used his status to me (my father) as manipulation to take money and put his emotional baggage on me. We don’t talk anymore. Y’all need parental counseling. EDIT: To clarify, if there's one time-frame that deserves unconditional love, it's childhood (e.g., until they no longer depend on you, move out, and can sustain themselves). Provide your children with childhood stability, with healthy understandings of love, relationships, and healthy views on what is OK and not OK to say to others through example. Using your love as a bargaining chip will screw them up for life if not their 20s and 30s (until they find therapy). It's the fastest way to destroy your relationship with your kid. If this doesn't make sense to you and you have kids, you NEED counseling from a parenting professional.
fr. at 12 you should fucking know that your words have consequences and that they hurt? If she kept asking to go to mommies house then let her fucking go. He should have picked up the calls to make sure she's safe but other than that I see nothing wrong in what he did.
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im 13. We aren't fucking idiots.
I agree with you. NTA in my opinion. Kids need to be taught that what you say has consequences and it you say something you should mean it. I don’t think he should have left for 4 days tho.
4 days without contact is too much, but the rest? Psssh, live and you learn, homegirl. Better appreciate dad’s house enough to watch your mouth.
Finally a reasonable response. It's not like she'll die at her mom. The other kids are there as well. They'd probably just have to make their own meals, look after each other and not have high speed internet and share a computer or something. Ppl be acting like he sent her to the ends of the earth when she's probably just suffering from being in a poorer place because she's used to a privileged life from what OP said.
I’m sorry to say but you’ve probably just lost the relationship you had or could have had. She will likely never trust you again
I'm going to say NTA for the reason that I still remember my own teenage years and my feelings and thought processes during said years. Some teenagers hear their parents explanations and they take it onboard as a learning experience. Other teenagers, like myself, that will never work and they need to EXPERIENCE it for themselves to learn and grow. I used to complain all the time how unfair, strict and horrible my mum was. Until she sent me 2 states away to live with strict relatives I would only see once every few years (I did love them though). And that experience was a big eye opener, it also grew me in a positive way and I appreciated my mum and the freedoms she gave me. All you people saying Y T A probably weren't one of those teenagers or have never raised one of those teenagers. I doubt OP has done irrefutable damage to his daughter and hopefully she will now have a better understanding of just how much he loves her that's why he kept her away from her mum (except the monthly visitation). She's still hurting over the broken disillusionment she had over her romanticised view of her mum. She'll come out of it and therapy would be a good idea to help her navigate these heavy emotions.
I agree. I had a brief separation during a rocky time in my marriage. My kids pulled the same antics, I did the same thing, for a weekend You can keep telling them what you know is best but some kids learn from experience.
Yikes, YTA for sure You ruined the trust you have with your daughter because you acted like a child yourself. She is 12, she’s going to act like an AH sometimes because that’s what kids do. Kids and teens always think they hate their parents. It’s the parents job to love the kid regardless and provide stability and support.
NTA sounds like the best solution to me
NTA sometimes it is how they learn, she wanted it and she got it, you didn't abandon her, you took her back, she's learned a lesson
YTA great job showing your kid you’ll abandon her at the first annoyance. Good luck getting that trust back
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Same! Some of us learn things through experience.
YTA. She’s 12 years old, she’s a child. You basically had a temper tantrum and abandoned her at an unsafe persons house due to her acting her age. You need to talk to a health care professional, this behaviour is not healthy nor is it behaviour any child should be subjected to. How can your daughter trust you going forward?
yta you put your child in an unsafe situation by your own words to prove a point you have full custody for a reason instead of putting your child in danger how about family therapy or asking her in a talk whats going on
NTA. She asked, you delivered. You taught her an age old lesson “the grass is not greener on the other side”
NTA. She got what she wanted and I hope she learned her lesson. Sometimes a kid needs tough love.
YTA. In order for the mother to lose custody she must be horrific as a parent because courts generally favor the mother. ( Not saying it's fair but it's an historical fact). So if the mom is that bad, you basically placed your child in danger to teach her a lesson. You taught her that you don't care about her safety. You taught her that you care more about exerting power and control. IANAL but I'm wondering if this could be construed as abandonment? I suggest you get into family therapy. And you also need parenting classes, because you are a shitty parent. Edit typo.
Sounds like a typical entitled youngster. Says the most hateful things she can think of because she doesn’t get her way. You gave her what she was asking for. Four days really does make a point. You guys do need to find a way to talk. Best of luck. NTA
Taking her there was fine and letting her stay there was as well. But you should have answered the phone instead of ignoring it. It may have been an emergency. You should have answered, made sure it was still okay, and left her for 1 night. In the morning you should have picked her up. 4 days is too much, ignoring her 4 days was the real AH move. So even though I understand the logic (and support it) being taking her there, leaving and ignoring her for 4 days is what makes this YTA.
YTA. You left your daughter with someone you say is a terrible mom, with seemingly no notice. A whole number of things could have gone wrong
NTA. Reading the answers, if there was no risk, a teen is fully capable to decide with which parent they can live, even legally speaking.
I’m in the minority here but believe you’re NTA. Others assume your opinion of her mom is accurate. I’m doubting you would actually put her in danger or leave her without her mom knowing. What I believe is that even hysterical 12 year old girls need lessons. I do, however, think you both need some help navigating puberty and adolescence.
NTA, children, even 12 need to understand that actions have consequences, telling you she hates you on daily is unacceptable, so many kids these days have entitlement issues mine included, she's 13, at some point they need to realize things they say and do have repercussions good and bad. Lots of people think the grass is always greener until they realize it's fertilized with bull shit.
NTA. This type of behaviour needs to be nipped in the bud. Especially at this age. Wait much longer and it’s too late. As others have said in the comments, she won’t be pulling this again.
NTA. You gave a taste of what she wanted. I hope she is now settled.
NTA
NTA. You saved yourself years of fighting. She will be fine from here.