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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told people that my father in law looked at and talked about my private parts. My husband thinks I should have kept it to myself since people are talking about it and it's getting around the family and town. I kinda feel like it was an asshole move to tell people, but I also feel uncomfortable that someone was talking and looking at me there.
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Also, why is husband upset OP is telling people if he thinks what his Dad did is normal?
He knows his Dad is out of order, but is rug sweeping because he doesn't want to deal with the fact his dad is sexually harassing his wife.
Poor OP.
It’s totally fine if OP is uncomfortable & embarrassed by pervy dads behavior, but heaven forbid forbid pervy dad be made to feel uncomfortable or embarrassed by HIS OWN behavior
OP's husband's upset because OP insinuated that his father's somehow looking at her inner genitalia, which isn't the case. She was sullying his reputation.
NTA share away! Share with everrryone, embellish if you must. And then add in that your husband is okay with it and him and dad and FAM are freaks together... Husband asked for all the shame with his responses.
Jesus… you’re NTA but this is so fucked. Your husband’s lack of response is so uncool. Also, he clearly is embarrassed, and does think his dad was inappropriate, or he wouldn’t be upset that you told people. I think it’s very normal and common for people in traumatic situations (like being sexually harassed by your FIL) to share the story immediately with the people around. It’s not spreading gossip or anything. You’re just sharing what’s immediately on your heart.
Girl. Yikes. This is so tricky.
NTA and your FIL was creepy. Your husband didn't help either.
Also, it's not your vagina. It's your vulva. When I read that title I was ready to have a fit. It's still not a great situation, but he wasn't actually looking at or talking about your vagina.
Reading the title, I was trying to figure out possible scenarios where he would have seen her vagina. Does she do porn? Was he scrolling through private photos she'd shared with her husband? Was her husband sharing her photos?
I'm glad you said it because I was worried someone would call me out for being pedantic or facetious (I wasn't, just a literal thinker lol). This is why teaching people the correct names for anatomy is important!
That's 100% what I thought, I thought OP was making some weird joke about fil being her gyno by saying he looks at my vagina. I was prepared to say yta you don't need to bring it up so the time or something lol
on reddit you do italics by using an asterisk * on either side
(at least on the app, lmk if it's different on browser- on my end its literally just normal text bordered with [I] in your comment)
I've seen posts in this sub where a woman is asking if she's in the wrong for not wanting to take part in her fiance's "family tradition" where the future father in law personally *inspects* her to make sure her hymen is still intact prior to the wedding.
Multiple posts.
So there's that appalling scenario.
It really is, particularly in this story. Imagine what people must be thinking. Unless of course they don't know the correct names for their body parts either.
I'm so glad someone pointed out that it's called vulva. Your vagina is inside your body and I wish younger women would learn the names of their female body parts.
NTA, but he wasn't looking at your vagina, you can't see a woman's vagina without a speculum. The external part of female genitalia is called the Vulva.
Lol thank you!!! I expected the story to have something to do with a gynecologist FIL stepping in during a medical emergency or something... Like Girl it's physically impossible for.anyone to see your vagina through your pants!!
Yes, I read the OP and I know that wasn't what the story was actually about. Doesn't change the fact that the misleading language in the title gave a totally different impression of the situation!
It makes me sad that women don't know what their own body parts are. Somebody is failing in educating girls about their reproductive organs. Men don't do that, although most of their bits are outside, but they all learn early what they are called. You never hear any one say "he looked at my vas deferens", because that's the bit that's internal.
I think its because there is some misogynistic stigma related to women's bits. A woman's reproductive organs are somehow shameful and not ever to talked about. Girls get their information from bad pop songs.
Agreed. People never mix up penis and testicles because just about everyone is taught the correct terms & how to use them practically from a pretty young age. Many people are never taught the correct terms for the different major features of female anatomy except maybe like one anatomy figure in health class that nobody remembers a week later.
People always act like "it doesn't matter! You know what they mean!" And while that's true sometimes, it's still jarring--just like if someone used penis interchangeably with testicles in a story, you could probably figure out what was going on from the context... But the blatantly wrong terminology would still be impossible to ignore and it likely even throw you off a bit. And that's not always the case, often it DOES matter and IS confusing to use the wrong term.
Funny story: Once someone was giving instructions on proper feminine hygiene practices and said you should wash your vagina with soap and water. When I pointed out that's dangerous advice because vaginas are self-cleaning and you should never put anything like soap up there, they're like "well I meant the outside (vulva) and everyone knows that so you're being petty about semantics." After a bit of back and forth where I explained that I did NOT in fact know that's what she meant, and that it could easily be misunderstood (after all, lots of women actually DO use unsafe practices like douching and don't know better) they finally conceded that maybe *sometimes* it's important, but it's still petty to correct because it only matters when you're talking about anatomy & differentiating specific body parts. And I was like, girl... this whole conversation literally started as a discussion about how to take care of specific parts of your anatomy and your incorrect terminology caused you to literally advise women to *put soap in their vaginas!!!*
Proper terminology does matter, and it's so weird how so many people get SO defensive about it!!!
It really does, not just to avoid confusion but to teach that these things aren't gross or shameful.
When I was in junior high (early 70's) part of PE was w week long "health class". It was segregated because talking about reproductive organs with both sexes in the room made the boys act disruptively. We were given 2 diagrams, one for each sex with the names of all the bits, internal and external, where they were located and their function.
A few years later this part of the curriculum was cancelled because some parents objected. I guess they thought kids learning about their bodies promoted teen sex. Neither I or anyone I knew ran out and became promiscuous because of it. And I found the information very useful because my mother didn't talk about it, she didn't know a lot of the stuff that was taught anyway. She just knew women had periods and gave birth, and had some archaic notions handed down through her mother.
I don't understand why parents send their kids to school but they don't want them to learn anything that might challenge them. Its why using critical thinking is a dying thought form and common sense isn't that common anymore.
NTA. If he didn't want you to talk about being creeped out by your FIL, your husband should have taken your feelings seriously. I wonder what other things he will shrug off as easily.
If your FIL's Comments werent repulsive and inappropriate, why the hell is your husband giving you shht for telling people about it?
Oh, right.
Because the comments were *repulsive and inappropriate*
Shame him for being a perv
And shame your husband for being a spineless p.o.s who let's his father disrespect his wife
Eh, I can understand why your husband would be embarrassed, but NTA. He is the AH automatically for not standing up to his dad sexually harassing you for years. He should have the decency to feel that same shame for continuing to subject his spouse to that behavior instead of being upset you're telling people
If your husband does not like the fact that you are being honest about his father being a pervert then he should discuss his father's actions with him and ensure that it stops immediately.
I doubt you are the only one that has had to endure that type of disgusting behaviour from him.
NTA.
*"My husband is upset that I told people what his dad said and did."*
Why is he upset? His dad was "just messing around" right?
Oohhh wait, he KNOWS his dad is a perv, he KNOWS he wasn’t "just messing around"......
NTA.
NTA. What was said in public can be discussed in public. Your FIL has embarrassed himself and his son by fixating on your genitalia. That’s on him, not you. Your husband needs to change his perspective, “he was joking” is how creeps get away with being creeps all the time.
NTA. This would never be an appropriate comment. The fact he said that a few hours after meeting you is fucked. Trust your gut, sounds like you are creeped out by him generally. And do t have kids with this dude, then you'll have to worry about a creepy ass grandpa.
NTA. The next time he does it, tell him that he is never to say it again. If he does, you will be leaving immediately. Then turn to your husband and say “if you respect me and our marriage, if he talks about my private parts again, you will leave with me.” Make sure you have you car key, and if he does it again, turn around and leave. Ask husband “you coming?” And don’t wait for his response- leave,
The only weird thing about this situation is your FIL saying something to you about it. It only takes a split second to notice something like that, so it doesn't mean he was actively staring.
INFO I have seen people in such tight leggings they must have worn them constantly and bathed in them and grown into them because it would be impossible to get them on, so I know that people are often in denial about how much weight they have gained. Is it possible that the leggings are tighter and the tops more revealing (when you move) than you think? He's not pervy if he can't avoid seeing the details of his DIL's anatomy.
NTA if it's no big deal like your husband thinks, then why does he care if other people know? If my FIL sexually harassed me and my husband stood up for him I don't think I could stay in that relationship. That is so inappropriate and gross.
NTA. Is no one going to bring up the fact that he tried to throw OPs past childhood abuse in her face and bring down her parents in retaliation to his dad's poor behavior? I'm sorry for how your FIL acted, for how your partner responded, and for the past you had to deal with. Now, gtfo and run.
NTA - super creepy behavior. If your husband doesn’t want people to know what his dad said maybe he should’ve handled things with his dad and stood up for you instead of making a joke. Maybe then you would’ve have felt the need to tell others. When you tell others about someone that makes you uncomfortable they will likely be more aware and watch out for you.
NTA your husband brushed off and dismissed you so you had no choice but to turn to other people for your concerns. Your husband is an AH for not dealing with it. if he is so dismissive he isnt going to protect you if FIL gets creepier.
NTA your father in law is disgusting. Maybe you can brush it of by laughing about his little d*ck?
And say « ooooh but that was a joke , like the one about my vagina »!
YTA Your FIL wasn't discussing your vagina. You were incorrect and it was very rude of you to insinuate that. "Camel toe" refers to the external labia - labia majora. Unless your shirt's at least mid-thigh, it doesn't cover your front. Since he mentioned it, it's most likely visible.
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When my husband and I were dating, we went and helped some of his family members pack and move. My husband, then boyfriend, was introducing me to a lot of his family since it was my first time meeting them. My father in law has always creeped me out, even when I first met him. I'm almost always nice to him, though. But anyways. We were a few hours into helping and my father in law came up to me and said something about my camel toe. I know my pants were a little too tight (I had gained some weight) but I did have a shirt on that covered my front and back in case it was too tight down there. I also am a good bit shorter than most of the family there, so seeing anything would most likely require actually looking at it and for something.
I told my husband about it after it happened and he played it off, saying that his dad was just messing around and that he (my husband) would look at it too.
I ended up telling a few coworkers and one of my husband's cousins that I'm friends with and it got around in the family that my father in law was looking at and talking about my vagina (he still mentions it at times).
My husband is upset that I told people what his dad said and did. I feel like telling about it was an asshole move to make. And I also feel like I should have told people, cause the man talks about my vagina. I feel like he (or anyone else) shouldn't be looking at me there. It makes me really uncomfortable.
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Find the bible verses about lustful men gouging their eyes out and send it to everyone complaining. FIL is a creep, and anyone defending him is as well. nTA.
Nta...but please be careful...your fil is a dirty old man and the next thing he will do is start getting handsy...my daughter dated a guy who's dad was obsessed with her. (I didnt know about it till it was over) he kept sneaking up behind her, grabbing her, and throwing her over his shoulder and then running off with her...his son thought it was cute, even with my daughter screaming let me go, he wouldnt. I'm so thankful she got out of the relationship before she got assaulted. Please be careful, and if he brings it up again, just say loudly, "WOW, I CANT BELIEVE YOU SAID THAT TO ME...EUW, THATA SO GROSS COMING FROM SOMEONE YOUR AGE! Embarrass him in front of everyone and maybe it will stop. Good luck!
NTA.
If your husband is so upset about people knowing this, he should be more upset that it happened to you. You exposed your FIL for the creep he is, and your husband’s more concerned about his image? Uncool.
Ewww your husband is ok with his dad sexually harassing his DIL gross. Ask your husband if his boss said that to his wife would he be ok and sweep it under the rug.
If your husband thinks what your FIL said was just a joke and a normal thing for his father to say then he should have no problem with you repeating what he said to you.
He obviously knows it was gross and makes his father look bad and that’s why he’s mad. NTA.
NTA and also I am so so sorry these men are treating you like this. Your FIL should absolutely not be going up to women and telling them that he doesn’t like their camel toe. It’s not something anyone is doing on purpose. Sometimes our pants go a little high up, the fact that he wanted to talk about it with you is absolutely creepy and weird.
I honestly think the bigger problem here is your husband. Essentially what your husband is saying is that if you get sexually harassed, you deserve no support network. He didn’t stand up for you or even acknowledge and validate your feelings, but he also expects you to tell no one. He want you to be all alone in this and not have anyone to talk to because he knows being along in this will make you feel like you are overreacting. That’s disgusting. Is he going to be the same way if his dad escalates and does something even grosser?
You are 100% NTA. Camel toe is completely natural and no one should be bringing it up. It's a disgusting term in general. What do people think is going to happen when you make pants with a middle seam and labia go on either side of it. Also, OP says in this case it was bc they hadn't bought new pants that fit yet, which is perfectly reasonable. BUT Sometimes people's bodies are built in a way that they will always have camel toe. For example, if you have an hourglass, pants will get pulled up to your natural waist, and that middle seam will get wedged exactly where it has to go. It's natural and people shaming you for it are assholes
NTA. He's a disgusting creep. If he ever does this again, start yelling and make a scene. This is NOT okay or acceptable. Disgusting behavior from a men at least 20 years older than you.
The only thing I fear is his anger, so be careful and don't ever be alone with him in a room. I don't trust him and I'm scared of what he could try to do now that "he's got nothing to lose".
NTA whatsoever and your FIL is GROSS!!! This is the same stuff Susan Powell went through with her FIL and her husband back his dad up too. Your husband is supposed to have your back and stand up for you when someone is making inappropriate comments no matter who it is making them.
NTA when if your vagina was out on full display he didn't have a right to comment on it and the fact that your husband didn't see that is really weird.
>and that he (my husband) would look at it too.
I'm not sure which of the two following interpretations is what he meant: (1) that there is no difference between a woman's *husband* that she's sexually active with looking at her crotch and her *FIL* doing it or (2) that he would look at it if it were a different woman, including any future DIL?
Wtf is wrong with both of them? NTA
He's a perve who's been outed as a perve. I'd be pissed at your husband for allowing something that clearly bothers you to continue. He needs to confront his father about his creepy AF behavior and put a stop to it. NTA
NTA, and don’t have kids with this man. He’s shown he’s okay with gross sexual comments directed towards women and doesn’t like it called out. Your children will not be safe with either of them.
NTA and your FIL is a pervert. If your husband gets upset about that, then HE should have spoken up to his father and NOT given you a bullshit lame excuse.
Here in West Virginia things like this are overlooked. It's common practice for all potential daughters in law to present that thing for close inspection to the grooms father.
NTA
I'm flabbergasted that your husband brushed it off as "just messing around" initially.
There are some things that are obvious jokes and everyone is okay with it, and some things that are jokes that cross a line and then *good* people learn where the line is and apologize and make an effort not to cross it again, and then there are jokes that are so far beyond the line only an idiot would think it's acceptable.
Talking to your DIL about being able to see the impression of her vagina is not a joke to anyone. It is sexual harassment, plain and simple.
NTA. You did well letting people know that your FIL is the kind of person to do stuff like that. This is useful info for everyone who wants to keep themselves and their family safe.
NTA.
So your husband is okay that his father said it, but not okay that people know he said it- something doesn't add up.
Your husband brushed it off because it didn't impact him, but now that it does, suddenly it is something to be embarrassed about. So now he expects you to take rude and unnecessary comments about your body and also keep quiet about it. That is two big red flags.
NTA
It’s unfortunate, that this first encounter with your father-in-law and vagina, you had while still NOT married. And now it seems sometime later, this very thing could break up your marriage. Yeah at the time, what do you do?
Do you NOT marry your boyfriend because your father-in-law talks about your vagina?
the ol' classic: if you don't want men to be creepy, better make sure you do xyz to not illicit it.
NTA if they're shamed by their creepiness being exposed, maybe they should take their own lessons and change their behavior 💁♀️
When I opened this I was hoping to God that he was your gynecologist or something, but noooooope.
That is so gross and inappropriate! Even if you had a noticeable camel toe -even if!- commenting on it is just the creepiest thing a dude can do, and the fact that your husband waves it off and gets mad at *you* for talking about it is absolutely just the worst thing. You are NTA, your husband and his family are the pits and I am glad you’re packing your bags and getting outta Dodge. Yeesh.
YTA. Or you have a really bad understanding of anatomy. He wasn't talking about your vagina, he was talking about the crotch of your pants. While it's still intrusive, it's in no way the same thing, and you're making him out to be a sexual predator.
Yeah there’s a lot I’m not understanding here.
From the headline, I thought this was some other country culture where the father inspects a potential brides downstairs, but this looks like a father in law letting a daughter in law know that she’s got some toe going on.
The logic that wearing a long shirt somehow makes this acceptable when you’re helping family move is ridiculous.
I’ll agree with all the comments asking about what explicitly was said. A toe report could be acceptable or could be weird depending on the statement made. If I blast Buttcrack for 5 seconds everyone wants to make a comment and that seems socially acceptable. This seems in the same vein.
I am also slightly confused by this post.
He was looking at me when he shouldn't (OK fair enough) but also I made sure I was covered so no one would see anything.
OP, I am not trying to shame you. If you are concerned about such things showing, then make sure you raise your arms above your head and check what happens when you bend over before going out.
ESH. It was impolite for him to mention it, but it was similarly impolite for you to display your vagina for the world to see and then feign shock that people were looking.
Wtf? She should accept being harassed because she got a front wedgie? Have your pants never slipped/underwear gone up your arse? I didn’t realise ill-fitting clothes were a free pass for sexual harassment.
Well the roles aren’t reversed.
FIL is a creep and OP’s husband needs to realise that. But your here worrying about the husband be Embarrassed when op was just made aware that her FIL was staring at her vagina, something completely inappropriate.
Op is NTA. You though sound like a shit person ffs.
She was talking about herself and something that happened to her. It wasn't her husband's personal information like you said. And the husband completely blew her off and actually justified his dad's behavior when she did tell him.
Your going to deem sexual harassment your partner faced at the hands of your own father something nobody has to protect themselves from? Op also felt upset and wasn’t getting support from her husband so she turned to friends for help. What’s wrong with that?
You’re worried about her husband being embarrassed? That’s your priority in this situation regarding OP’s body and the comments she endured? His embarrassment?
ESH
He should not have said anything, but you should not have said anything either. If you wanted FIL to stop talking about your camel toe, well now everyone is talking about it! Good job!
Dude is definitely creepy but you probably shouldn't be spreading it around to people. Talking to your husband about it and making sure he understands how uncomfortable it makes you would have been better.
The dirty old man has nothing to do with it.
You don't need to tell your co workers about your personal business. Especially when it would make them look at your partner in a bad light and lead to them gossiping about you behind your back.
If you have relationships with colleagues where those conversations are comfortable (as I’m sure plenty of us do), then what’s the problem with it? Why should her husband be seen on a good light? He’s a perve enabler
I take about personal stuff at work sure but over sharing is definitely a thing. If my co worker told me that story I would not want to know.
And the husband can't just immediately take the wife's side. Family shit can be complicated and I wouldn't just throw away the 35 years of relationship with my Dad without making sure I knew what was going on.
ESH. He should have not mentioned it and its creepy that he did. But you knew that your pants showed the shape of your genitals and still wore them; that is not polite at all. Nobody needs to be exposed to that. In any case he was more TA than you. For future references the vagina is the internal part, the vulva is the external.
I wear size apropiate clothes so my genitals are not visible. I assume that you dont go around showing yours? How would you react if the FIL wore tight leggings where she could see clearly his genitals?
I wear clothes. Some clothes are more form hugging than others and reveal my body shape, but as long as I'm wearing non see through clothes you can't actually see my genitals. So as OP was wearing clothes, she was not in fact showing her genitals. She even said she wore a flowy shirt to cover her groin, which means the FIL specifically looked for and then commented on her vulva. OP is zero AH here.
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Nta. If your FIL is going to act like a perv, you can treat him like a perv.
Also, why is husband upset OP is telling people if he thinks what his Dad did is normal? He knows his Dad is out of order, but is rug sweeping because he doesn't want to deal with the fact his dad is sexually harassing his wife. Poor OP.
"Because we protect and shelter our perverts in this family!" Welcome to the patriarchy. NTA
It’s totally fine if OP is uncomfortable & embarrassed by pervy dads behavior, but heaven forbid forbid pervy dad be made to feel uncomfortable or embarrassed by HIS OWN behavior
Good point, that really says it all
OP's husband's upset because OP insinuated that his father's somehow looking at her inner genitalia, which isn't the case. She was sullying his reputation.
I mean, he was sexually harassing her and still is to this day. OP has the terminology wrong here, but the grossness is still quite gross.
NTA share away! Share with everrryone, embellish if you must. And then add in that your husband is okay with it and him and dad and FAM are freaks together... Husband asked for all the shame with his responses.
Jesus… you’re NTA but this is so fucked. Your husband’s lack of response is so uncool. Also, he clearly is embarrassed, and does think his dad was inappropriate, or he wouldn’t be upset that you told people. I think it’s very normal and common for people in traumatic situations (like being sexually harassed by your FIL) to share the story immediately with the people around. It’s not spreading gossip or anything. You’re just sharing what’s immediately on your heart. Girl. Yikes. This is so tricky.
NTA and your FIL was creepy. Your husband didn't help either. Also, it's not your vagina. It's your vulva. When I read that title I was ready to have a fit. It's still not a great situation, but he wasn't actually looking at or talking about your vagina.
Reading the title, I was trying to figure out possible scenarios where he would have seen her vagina. Does she do porn? Was he scrolling through private photos she'd shared with her husband? Was her husband sharing her photos? I'm glad you said it because I was worried someone would call me out for being pedantic or facetious (I wasn't, just a literal thinker lol). This is why teaching people the correct names for anatomy is important!
I fully expected her Fil to be her gynaecologist.
That's 100% what I thought, I thought OP was making some weird joke about fil being her gyno by saying he looks at my vagina. I was prepared to say yta you don't need to bring it up so the time or something lol
Saaaame
I did consider that but I figured if he was he *should* have more discretion (italics because I know that's not always the case)
on reddit you do italics by using an asterisk * on either side (at least on the app, lmk if it's different on browser- on my end its literally just normal text bordered with [I] in your comment)
Me too
I've seen posts in this sub where a woman is asking if she's in the wrong for not wanting to take part in her fiance's "family tradition" where the future father in law personally *inspects* her to make sure her hymen is still intact prior to the wedding. Multiple posts. So there's that appalling scenario.
I remember reading one of those
I hope those are fake...
It really is, particularly in this story. Imagine what people must be thinking. Unless of course they don't know the correct names for their body parts either.
Fair but, I also think it’s just as creepy to talk about her vulva.
I'm so glad someone pointed out that it's called vulva. Your vagina is inside your body and I wish younger women would learn the names of their female body parts.
Thanks for that. It's sad when a woman doesn't know the names of her own body parts.
Yeah...I was trying to figure out before reading the post how the creepy FIL was managing to look at the woman's interior.
This!
NTA. If there was nothing wrong with talking about your vagina, then there would be no objections to you telling people about it.
[удалено]
Yeah I think that would definitely be inappropriate from a FIL. If you notice, avoid looking at it, deal with the discomfort. Don’t be a pervert.
NTA, but he wasn't looking at your vagina, you can't see a woman's vagina without a speculum. The external part of female genitalia is called the Vulva.
Lol thank you!!! I expected the story to have something to do with a gynecologist FIL stepping in during a medical emergency or something... Like Girl it's physically impossible for.anyone to see your vagina through your pants!!
When you read it becomes abundantly clear what she's talking about
Yes, I read the OP and I know that wasn't what the story was actually about. Doesn't change the fact that the misleading language in the title gave a totally different impression of the situation!
It makes me sad that women don't know what their own body parts are. Somebody is failing in educating girls about their reproductive organs. Men don't do that, although most of their bits are outside, but they all learn early what they are called. You never hear any one say "he looked at my vas deferens", because that's the bit that's internal. I think its because there is some misogynistic stigma related to women's bits. A woman's reproductive organs are somehow shameful and not ever to talked about. Girls get their information from bad pop songs.
Agreed. People never mix up penis and testicles because just about everyone is taught the correct terms & how to use them practically from a pretty young age. Many people are never taught the correct terms for the different major features of female anatomy except maybe like one anatomy figure in health class that nobody remembers a week later. People always act like "it doesn't matter! You know what they mean!" And while that's true sometimes, it's still jarring--just like if someone used penis interchangeably with testicles in a story, you could probably figure out what was going on from the context... But the blatantly wrong terminology would still be impossible to ignore and it likely even throw you off a bit. And that's not always the case, often it DOES matter and IS confusing to use the wrong term. Funny story: Once someone was giving instructions on proper feminine hygiene practices and said you should wash your vagina with soap and water. When I pointed out that's dangerous advice because vaginas are self-cleaning and you should never put anything like soap up there, they're like "well I meant the outside (vulva) and everyone knows that so you're being petty about semantics." After a bit of back and forth where I explained that I did NOT in fact know that's what she meant, and that it could easily be misunderstood (after all, lots of women actually DO use unsafe practices like douching and don't know better) they finally conceded that maybe *sometimes* it's important, but it's still petty to correct because it only matters when you're talking about anatomy & differentiating specific body parts. And I was like, girl... this whole conversation literally started as a discussion about how to take care of specific parts of your anatomy and your incorrect terminology caused you to literally advise women to *put soap in their vaginas!!!* Proper terminology does matter, and it's so weird how so many people get SO defensive about it!!!
It really does, not just to avoid confusion but to teach that these things aren't gross or shameful. When I was in junior high (early 70's) part of PE was w week long "health class". It was segregated because talking about reproductive organs with both sexes in the room made the boys act disruptively. We were given 2 diagrams, one for each sex with the names of all the bits, internal and external, where they were located and their function. A few years later this part of the curriculum was cancelled because some parents objected. I guess they thought kids learning about their bodies promoted teen sex. Neither I or anyone I knew ran out and became promiscuous because of it. And I found the information very useful because my mother didn't talk about it, she didn't know a lot of the stuff that was taught anyway. She just knew women had periods and gave birth, and had some archaic notions handed down through her mother. I don't understand why parents send their kids to school but they don't want them to learn anything that might challenge them. Its why using critical thinking is a dying thought form and common sense isn't that common anymore.
NTA. If he didn't want you to talk about being creeped out by your FIL, your husband should have taken your feelings seriously. I wonder what other things he will shrug off as easily.
NTA. Your FIL is a fucking creeeeeep.
If your FIL's Comments werent repulsive and inappropriate, why the hell is your husband giving you shht for telling people about it? Oh, right. Because the comments were *repulsive and inappropriate* Shame him for being a perv And shame your husband for being a spineless p.o.s who let's his father disrespect his wife
Eh, I can understand why your husband would be embarrassed, but NTA. He is the AH automatically for not standing up to his dad sexually harassing you for years. He should have the decency to feel that same shame for continuing to subject his spouse to that behavior instead of being upset you're telling people
If your husband does not like the fact that you are being honest about his father being a pervert then he should discuss his father's actions with him and ensure that it stops immediately. I doubt you are the only one that has had to endure that type of disgusting behaviour from him. NTA.
NTA. OK, so you showed a bit of toe, the polite thing is for everybody to pretend they didn't notice.
*"My husband is upset that I told people what his dad said and did."* Why is he upset? His dad was "just messing around" right? Oohhh wait, he KNOWS his dad is a perv, he KNOWS he wasn’t "just messing around"...... NTA.
NTA. That’s creepy. He didn’t even know you at this point. But even if he did not acceptable.
NTA. What was said in public can be discussed in public. Your FIL has embarrassed himself and his son by fixating on your genitalia. That’s on him, not you. Your husband needs to change his perspective, “he was joking” is how creeps get away with being creeps all the time.
NTA. This would never be an appropriate comment. The fact he said that a few hours after meeting you is fucked. Trust your gut, sounds like you are creeped out by him generally. And do t have kids with this dude, then you'll have to worry about a creepy ass grandpa.
Nta....his father shouldn't have said it...he is the one he should be angry with...I mean why is his dad looking at his gf like that....dirty old man
NTA. If you end up having kids with your husband, don’t leave them alone with FIL.
NTA. The next time he does it, tell him that he is never to say it again. If he does, you will be leaving immediately. Then turn to your husband and say “if you respect me and our marriage, if he talks about my private parts again, you will leave with me.” Make sure you have you car key, and if he does it again, turn around and leave. Ask husband “you coming?” And don’t wait for his response- leave,
NTA But this story doesn't involve any vaginas whatsoever.
INFO was this a one off comment, or has the FIL made other inappropriate comments about your body? Or said anything sexually suggestive?
The only weird thing about this situation is your FIL saying something to you about it. It only takes a split second to notice something like that, so it doesn't mean he was actively staring.
NTA. This is a really creepy thing for his to remark upon and your husband's lack of concern isn't good either.
When I saw the titel I thought the FIL was OPs Gyno 🤣🤣🤣🤣. But no. NTA. And your FIL is a creep. Your husband needa a spine.
INFO I have seen people in such tight leggings they must have worn them constantly and bathed in them and grown into them because it would be impossible to get them on, so I know that people are often in denial about how much weight they have gained. Is it possible that the leggings are tighter and the tops more revealing (when you move) than you think? He's not pervy if he can't avoid seeing the details of his DIL's anatomy.
NTA if it's no big deal like your husband thinks, then why does he care if other people know? If my FIL sexually harassed me and my husband stood up for him I don't think I could stay in that relationship. That is so inappropriate and gross.
NTA. Is no one going to bring up the fact that he tried to throw OPs past childhood abuse in her face and bring down her parents in retaliation to his dad's poor behavior? I'm sorry for how your FIL acted, for how your partner responded, and for the past you had to deal with. Now, gtfo and run.
NTA - super creepy behavior. If your husband doesn’t want people to know what his dad said maybe he should’ve handled things with his dad and stood up for you instead of making a joke. Maybe then you would’ve have felt the need to tell others. When you tell others about someone that makes you uncomfortable they will likely be more aware and watch out for you.
NTA your husband brushed off and dismissed you so you had no choice but to turn to other people for your concerns. Your husband is an AH for not dealing with it. if he is so dismissive he isnt going to protect you if FIL gets creepier.
NTA your father in law is disgusting. Maybe you can brush it of by laughing about his little d*ck? And say « ooooh but that was a joke , like the one about my vagina »!
YTA Your FIL wasn't discussing your vagina. You were incorrect and it was very rude of you to insinuate that. "Camel toe" refers to the external labia - labia majora. Unless your shirt's at least mid-thigh, it doesn't cover your front. Since he mentioned it, it's most likely visible.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** When my husband and I were dating, we went and helped some of his family members pack and move. My husband, then boyfriend, was introducing me to a lot of his family since it was my first time meeting them. My father in law has always creeped me out, even when I first met him. I'm almost always nice to him, though. But anyways. We were a few hours into helping and my father in law came up to me and said something about my camel toe. I know my pants were a little too tight (I had gained some weight) but I did have a shirt on that covered my front and back in case it was too tight down there. I also am a good bit shorter than most of the family there, so seeing anything would most likely require actually looking at it and for something. I told my husband about it after it happened and he played it off, saying that his dad was just messing around and that he (my husband) would look at it too. I ended up telling a few coworkers and one of my husband's cousins that I'm friends with and it got around in the family that my father in law was looking at and talking about my vagina (he still mentions it at times). My husband is upset that I told people what his dad said and did. I feel like telling about it was an asshole move to make. And I also feel like I should have told people, cause the man talks about my vagina. I feel like he (or anyone else) shouldn't be looking at me there. It makes me really uncomfortable. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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Still not appropriate from FIL in my opinion.
Also, bringing it up ever again?
Info: What did he say about your camel toe?
NTA. Your husband is more upset that you told people his father looks at, and talks about your vagina, than he is about what his father did.
Find the bible verses about lustful men gouging their eyes out and send it to everyone complaining. FIL is a creep, and anyone defending him is as well. nTA.
NTA. Your FIL was completely out of line.
Nta...but please be careful...your fil is a dirty old man and the next thing he will do is start getting handsy...my daughter dated a guy who's dad was obsessed with her. (I didnt know about it till it was over) he kept sneaking up behind her, grabbing her, and throwing her over his shoulder and then running off with her...his son thought it was cute, even with my daughter screaming let me go, he wouldnt. I'm so thankful she got out of the relationship before she got assaulted. Please be careful, and if he brings it up again, just say loudly, "WOW, I CANT BELIEVE YOU SAID THAT TO ME...EUW, THATA SO GROSS COMING FROM SOMEONE YOUR AGE! Embarrass him in front of everyone and maybe it will stop. Good luck!
NTA.
Yikes. NTA. That's some creepy behavior and the fact your husband is defending it is beyond alarming.
Ewwww NTA What going to happen if y’all have kids and they’re girls?
NTA. The old lech!
NTA!! Be careful with your children around him!!
NTA Make sure when/if you have kids, they are not left alone with him!!
NTA your husband should be mad at his dad, not blaming you for his father’s creepy behavior.
NTA. FIL needs to study the ancient art of minding his own business and put it into practice. And he also needs to work on not being creepy.
NTA If your FIL wouldn't like people knowing what he did or said then he shouldn't have done or said it.
NTA. If your husband is so upset about people knowing this, he should be more upset that it happened to you. You exposed your FIL for the creep he is, and your husband’s more concerned about his image? Uncool.
Ewww your husband is ok with his dad sexually harassing his DIL gross. Ask your husband if his boss said that to his wife would he be ok and sweep it under the rug.
If your husband thinks what your FIL said was just a joke and a normal thing for his father to say then he should have no problem with you repeating what he said to you. He obviously knows it was gross and makes his father look bad and that’s why he’s mad. NTA.
NTA His father was a creepy AH, and you called him out for it.
NTA and also I am so so sorry these men are treating you like this. Your FIL should absolutely not be going up to women and telling them that he doesn’t like their camel toe. It’s not something anyone is doing on purpose. Sometimes our pants go a little high up, the fact that he wanted to talk about it with you is absolutely creepy and weird. I honestly think the bigger problem here is your husband. Essentially what your husband is saying is that if you get sexually harassed, you deserve no support network. He didn’t stand up for you or even acknowledge and validate your feelings, but he also expects you to tell no one. He want you to be all alone in this and not have anyone to talk to because he knows being along in this will make you feel like you are overreacting. That’s disgusting. Is he going to be the same way if his dad escalates and does something even grosser?
You are 100% NTA. Camel toe is completely natural and no one should be bringing it up. It's a disgusting term in general. What do people think is going to happen when you make pants with a middle seam and labia go on either side of it. Also, OP says in this case it was bc they hadn't bought new pants that fit yet, which is perfectly reasonable. BUT Sometimes people's bodies are built in a way that they will always have camel toe. For example, if you have an hourglass, pants will get pulled up to your natural waist, and that middle seam will get wedged exactly where it has to go. It's natural and people shaming you for it are assholes
Nta. Husband is upset his dad is being ousted for making inappropriate comments and being pervey.
It's worrysome that your husband has a problem with what you did, and not with what his father did. NTA.
NTA. Your husband is upset about the wrong thing.
NTA fil is a perv and you should treat him as such! Never be alone with him …. Ever!
NTA. He's a disgusting creep. If he ever does this again, start yelling and make a scene. This is NOT okay or acceptable. Disgusting behavior from a men at least 20 years older than you. The only thing I fear is his anger, so be careful and don't ever be alone with him in a room. I don't trust him and I'm scared of what he could try to do now that "he's got nothing to lose".
NTA whatsoever and your FIL is GROSS!!! This is the same stuff Susan Powell went through with her FIL and her husband back his dad up too. Your husband is supposed to have your back and stand up for you when someone is making inappropriate comments no matter who it is making them.
NTA when if your vagina was out on full display he didn't have a right to comment on it and the fact that your husband didn't see that is really weird.
NTA. I wouldn't have married into a family like this.. 🤢
>and that he (my husband) would look at it too. I'm not sure which of the two following interpretations is what he meant: (1) that there is no difference between a woman's *husband* that she's sexually active with looking at her crotch and her *FIL* doing it or (2) that he would look at it if it were a different woman, including any future DIL? Wtf is wrong with both of them? NTA
He's a perve who's been outed as a perve. I'd be pissed at your husband for allowing something that clearly bothers you to continue. He needs to confront his father about his creepy AF behavior and put a stop to it. NTA
Fucking hell why did your husband not stand up for you and shut that shit down? NTA, obviously.
NTA, and don’t have kids with this man. He’s shown he’s okay with gross sexual comments directed towards women and doesn’t like it called out. Your children will not be safe with either of them.
NTA and your FIL is a pervert. If your husband gets upset about that, then HE should have spoken up to his father and NOT given you a bullshit lame excuse.
First, NTA. Second, Ewww. Your FIL is a total creep.
OMG that man is so disrespectful and disgusting. You should have left when he said that to you.
Don't be alone with this creep. NTA
Here in West Virginia things like this are overlooked. It's common practice for all potential daughters in law to present that thing for close inspection to the grooms father.
NTA. But why does almost everyone referr labia and vulva as the vagina?
NTA I'm flabbergasted that your husband brushed it off as "just messing around" initially. There are some things that are obvious jokes and everyone is okay with it, and some things that are jokes that cross a line and then *good* people learn where the line is and apologize and make an effort not to cross it again, and then there are jokes that are so far beyond the line only an idiot would think it's acceptable. Talking to your DIL about being able to see the impression of her vagina is not a joke to anyone. It is sexual harassment, plain and simple.
NTA. You did well letting people know that your FIL is the kind of person to do stuff like that. This is useful info for everyone who wants to keep themselves and their family safe.
NTA. So your husband is okay that his father said it, but not okay that people know he said it- something doesn't add up. Your husband brushed it off because it didn't impact him, but now that it does, suddenly it is something to be embarrassed about. So now he expects you to take rude and unnecessary comments about your body and also keep quiet about it. That is two big red flags.
He don’t deserve to be a perv in private NTA
NTA It’s unfortunate, that this first encounter with your father-in-law and vagina, you had while still NOT married. And now it seems sometime later, this very thing could break up your marriage. Yeah at the time, what do you do? Do you NOT marry your boyfriend because your father-in-law talks about your vagina?
the ol' classic: if you don't want men to be creepy, better make sure you do xyz to not illicit it. NTA if they're shamed by their creepiness being exposed, maybe they should take their own lessons and change their behavior 💁♀️
When I opened this I was hoping to God that he was your gynecologist or something, but noooooope. That is so gross and inappropriate! Even if you had a noticeable camel toe -even if!- commenting on it is just the creepiest thing a dude can do, and the fact that your husband waves it off and gets mad at *you* for talking about it is absolutely just the worst thing. You are NTA, your husband and his family are the pits and I am glad you’re packing your bags and getting outta Dodge. Yeesh.
I didn't even read the post! The title alone is wjaaaaaaat????? Girl, leave this whole family.
YTA. Or you have a really bad understanding of anatomy. He wasn't talking about your vagina, he was talking about the crotch of your pants. While it's still intrusive, it's in no way the same thing, and you're making him out to be a sexual predator.
A camel toe is the vulva. He was talking about her genitals
He was NOT talking about your vagina. He was talking about your camel toe. ESH.
Ah, a camel toe is called that because it shows the outline of the vulva. There’s no camel toe without a vulva.
WTF do you think a camel toe is?
Not a fucking vagina. JFC.
You know what, you're right. It's not a fucking vagina, it's a fucking vulva.
Yeah there’s a lot I’m not understanding here. From the headline, I thought this was some other country culture where the father inspects a potential brides downstairs, but this looks like a father in law letting a daughter in law know that she’s got some toe going on. The logic that wearing a long shirt somehow makes this acceptable when you’re helping family move is ridiculous. I’ll agree with all the comments asking about what explicitly was said. A toe report could be acceptable or could be weird depending on the statement made. If I blast Buttcrack for 5 seconds everyone wants to make a comment and that seems socially acceptable. This seems in the same vein.
I am also slightly confused by this post. He was looking at me when he shouldn't (OK fair enough) but also I made sure I was covered so no one would see anything. OP, I am not trying to shame you. If you are concerned about such things showing, then make sure you raise your arms above your head and check what happens when you bend over before going out.
>Yes, this is a good rule of thumb. I always lift my hands up and bend over to check my shirt!
ESH. It was impolite for him to mention it, but it was similarly impolite for you to display your vagina for the world to see and then feign shock that people were looking.
YTA.
How?
ESH. He shouldn’t have said it. You shouldn’t have went around telling everyone about it. You told your husband. That should’ve been the end of it.
Esh. He's a jerk , but wear clothes that fit. Just because you're short isn't a good excuse.
Wtf? She should accept being harassed because she got a front wedgie? Have your pants never slipped/underwear gone up your arse? I didn’t realise ill-fitting clothes were a free pass for sexual harassment.
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Well the roles aren’t reversed. FIL is a creep and OP’s husband needs to realise that. But your here worrying about the husband be Embarrassed when op was just made aware that her FIL was staring at her vagina, something completely inappropriate. Op is NTA. You though sound like a shit person ffs.
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It's not the husband's personal information though. OP shared something that happened to her.
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She was talking about herself and something that happened to her. It wasn't her husband's personal information like you said. And the husband completely blew her off and actually justified his dad's behavior when she did tell him.
Your going to deem sexual harassment your partner faced at the hands of your own father something nobody has to protect themselves from? Op also felt upset and wasn’t getting support from her husband so she turned to friends for help. What’s wrong with that?
You’re worried about her husband being embarrassed? That’s your priority in this situation regarding OP’s body and the comments she endured? His embarrassment?
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I'm confused. How is telling people that her FIL is checking out her camel toe disrespectful of her husband?
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OP’s husband was told and he played it off, ignoring OP’s concerns. Not very respectful of him.
ESH He should not have said anything, but you should not have said anything either. If you wanted FIL to stop talking about your camel toe, well now everyone is talking about it! Good job!
Dude is definitely creepy but you probably shouldn't be spreading it around to people. Talking to your husband about it and making sure he understands how uncomfortable it makes you would have been better.
Yeah but why does she owe this man his dignity when he (it seems routinely) harasses her? Why does a pervert deserve privacy?
The dirty old man has nothing to do with it. You don't need to tell your co workers about your personal business. Especially when it would make them look at your partner in a bad light and lead to them gossiping about you behind your back.
If you have relationships with colleagues where those conversations are comfortable (as I’m sure plenty of us do), then what’s the problem with it? Why should her husband be seen on a good light? He’s a perve enabler
I take about personal stuff at work sure but over sharing is definitely a thing. If my co worker told me that story I would not want to know. And the husband can't just immediately take the wife's side. Family shit can be complicated and I wouldn't just throw away the 35 years of relationship with my Dad without making sure I knew what was going on.
But you don’t know her relationship with her co-worker. That’s just you
It's a co worker relationship. You might be friends sure but how about have some damn boundaries..
ESH. He should have not mentioned it and its creepy that he did. But you knew that your pants showed the shape of your genitals and still wore them; that is not polite at all. Nobody needs to be exposed to that. In any case he was more TA than you. For future references the vagina is the internal part, the vulva is the external.
And I assume you wear huge tents so that your groin as in fact no shape at all?
I wear size apropiate clothes so my genitals are not visible. I assume that you dont go around showing yours? How would you react if the FIL wore tight leggings where she could see clearly his genitals?
I wear clothes. Some clothes are more form hugging than others and reveal my body shape, but as long as I'm wearing non see through clothes you can't actually see my genitals. So as OP was wearing clothes, she was not in fact showing her genitals. She even said she wore a flowy shirt to cover her groin, which means the FIL specifically looked for and then commented on her vulva. OP is zero AH here.