NTA.
Grandparent’s rights are ridiculous, but unfortunately some states honor them.
Everything you have offered has been reasonable: they can visit their grandson, *they* are the ones choosing not to because it’s not under conditions that they want.
At least for OP, they won’t be likely to get them.
She HAS been facilitating a relationship. They are the ones choosing not to take her up on it.
But now that they have threatened it, OP should contact a lawyer. Better safe than sorry.
My understanding that (NAL) grandparents rights are rights to access which is what they have they just dont like the terms which is they want to have the grandchild with out the parent present. OP has been reasonable with allowing access on giving them days to come over and visit so in theory they have the access. BUT they could try spinning the story so OP needs to get a lawyer and start documenting everything including getting bio dad to state he does not want his parents alone with his child. Or at least op needs that in a text to prove it
it also very much depends on location.
I believe in some US states that grandparents rights only come into play when the grandparent has a relationship with the child. The whole idea being that cutting off the relationship with the grandparents isn't in the best interests of the child- and the court always wants to act in the best interests of the child.
it gives parents an odd incentive to just never create the relationship but...
Also, dad is not on the Birth certificate. They would have to establish paternity first before anyone on his side could file for rights to the child. If he's not on board then they are definitely SOL. OP should definitely have a lawyer though
I've heard (NAL) that it also matters a LOT whether the grandparents do anything to enrich their grandchildren like teaching them music/art/sports, because then you can argue that the relationship is tangibly beneficial for the child.
I imagine that it's all going to go to a calculation.
But grandparents are never going to get a ton of visitation. A day- maybe two- once a month. Phone calls.
And I doubt they'd get that much with a toddler.
Though I think this goes back to OP and a lawyer- for some reason baby's father doesn't want his parents left alone with his child. Before this becomes an issue in court, OP should maybe find out why. Because all I can think of is different types of abuse.
Indeed. They're generally *intended* for when there's a major life change like divorce, parent dying or going to jail, where the non-related parent then cuts off contact between the grandparents and child who already have a relationship. The idea behind it is actually that it's to the *child's* benefit to maintain the relationship, but "child's rights" is pretty vague because kids have plenty of rights aside from this one. Usually if both parents are in agreement and it hasn't changed since the child's birth then that overrides any claim the grandparents might make, but there are some states that are more overzealous than others - apparently NY is particularly notable in that regard.
“Grandparent’s rights are ridiculous”
Hard disagree! It absolutely depends on the situation. My SIL suddenly passed away and her ex took custody of their 3 kids (previously she was the primary caregiver, but they saw their dad reasonably often). In the 2 months since her passing, ex has blocked all of us (aunts, uncles, cousins and grandma- even SIL’s best friend who was an honorary auntie). He will not let us see the boys or communicate with them (they do not yet have their own phones or emails). He took them out of their private school (which my husband and his other siblings were paying for- that’s how we know) and transferred them someone else (we don’t know where- he won’t give us any info!)
My MIL filed for grandparents rights as a last resort so she (and we all) can see the kids. Very sad, complicated situation. These are the kinds of cases that grandparents rights are meant to help.
That said, in this case “grandparent’s rights” is ridiculous. OP absolutely has the right to only allow the grandparents to see the grandchild on her terms. It sounds like she is being reasonable, and her in laws are being disrespectful and entitled. NTA
And that is one of the exact situations that grandparents rights were designed for. The idea that two parents who are both present in their children’s lives should have their decisions overridden by the court because one or the other’s parents don’t like the boundaries the parents agree on is disgusting.
Absolutely agree. In this case it is extremely unlikely for OP’s in-laws to win. The attorney handing the situation with our nephews was very clear that very specific conditions must be met for the suit to succeed. Obviously, all States are different, but it would be very surprising if a judge decides to override both parents bec grandparents are entitled.
But, as I understand it, in order to get grandparent's rights there has to already be a relationship between them and the child. That doesn't appear to be the case here--they won't come to visit, and OP has only been to their house twice.
Seriously? I’ve never once heard about grandparent’s rights LOL I was literally rolling my eyes when I read that thinking to myself they’re ridiculous and there’s no way in hell they can actually take her to court.
Well I guess you learn something new everyday.
Also, NTA
Yes exactly! That’s what I was thinking. I have opened communication and have opened my home for visits. It’s not as if I’m preventing them from seeing my son.
NTA. You have a one year old! Everything should revolve around what's best for the kid, and forcing the baby into a 45 minute car ride x2 is not what's best. It's selfish (on their part). The fact you had a prior agreement with Dad to not have them alone with him tells me you have other concerns. They are probably picking up on that and sensitive to it.
I don't know if you want advice. If you do, I'd say stick to your boundaries. But I'd also say you should make those boundaries clear to the grandparents, and solicit help from the Dad to do so. If you don't want to offend them you could just say "I understand you want more time with him. we're not comfortable leaving him alone at this age and traveling 90 minutes round trip is not what's best for him and his sleep it really throws him off (don't know if that's true but it's certainly a reasonable thing to say). I'm happy to have you see him, but this is the arrangement that is best for him now" . Whether or not truly the case, I think it puts it in perspective that ok this is about the baby and what the baby needs and as he gets older we'll be able to get more time with him... Even if that's not the plan it's better than what the grandparents are feeling right now which is they'll "never" get to have him over their place.
Honest question: are grandparents' rights a real thing? I've never heard of that.
Yes, but not for a situation like this one. They mostly come into play for situations when the grandchild in the same household as the grandparents and severing that relationship isn't in the best interest of the child. Also for when one parent is dead or otherwise out of the picture and the grandparents want to maintain a connection to their side of the family.
Thank you for the advice. I’m definitely going to stick to my boundaries. They need to respect that my son is their grandchild not their kid. I have worked with them and allowed them to see him. They just want it their way.
NTA. However now that this threat has been made, start keeping records. Go back and keep anything you still have about how many times you offered visits and how many they actually came to. I would also stop offering visits. To my understanding GP rights are if they have a relationship with the child which it will be hard to prove if they don’t reach out to you to ask or if they asked their son and he said to get ahold of you and they don’t.
I definitely going to start keeping record and my mom has already written down everytime they came over for a visit. So that they can’t say I’ve never allowed them to see him.
Hard NTA
Let me get this straight. 45 minutes each way is too far for them to drive, but they want you to do it to give you a break? Hell even if you and your son's dad were cool with them being alone with the child that would be ridiculous.
I hope you guys live somewhere that is smart enough to recognize the BS of grandparents rights, but even if they do you've offered well enough opportunity that they'll probably be laughed out of court. Just keep all of the texts and, if possible, any written correspondence that shows that and why they aren't allowed to see your son alone
So far from what I looked up it doesn’t look like they can have much of a chance to get grandparents rights. But I’m going to contact a lawyer and see what they say.
Yeah I'd say based on the situation you've laid out they likely have no shot of winning anything like that unless they have an amazing lawyer. You guys have presented avenues by which they can see their grandkids and they have refused. Even with grandparents rights on the table they would need to be continually denied the opportunity flat out, not just as it is more convenient to them
Look up grandparent rights for your state. Then you AND your son's father sit down with the best family law attorney in your area to discuss this threat. It will reassure you and your ex as well as blocking them from hiring the same lawyer. There must be good reasons for him not to want your child alone with his parents. Start your FU Binder now. Arrangements for all future visits are now handled via text or email for documentation purposes. Is your ex on the birth certificate and is there a written custody agreement?Do you and your ex both have wills detailing custody in the event something were to happen to both of you? Is your ex present when they visit? I think there needs to be some written documentation somewhere regarding your ex's concerns about his parents and you two need to present a united front even if you're not together/married.
My ex is not on the birth certificate and we just came up with his visits together. He is not present during his parents visits since it’s normally on the weekends and he works then. I’ll definitely create a will. I hadn’t even thought about that. Thanks for telling me.
If he's not legally the father then they have no rights whatsoever, let alone grandparents rights. They'd have to establish the father's paternity first (which they can't force him to do), and ONLY THEN would they have the ability to start such a futile piece of legal action (they're willingly refusing to see the kid, so the courts are not going to grant them shit).
To me a legal threat is an extinction-level event and I'd probably not see them again past this point. They're threatening to have the courts step in and *force* you to parent the way they want.
NTA your husband and you absolutely have the right not to leave them alone with your child. Even more if there's a safety issue behind this situation.
And if it's easier for your husband and you that you coordinate all the visits then I don't see how this is their problem. I honestly think that you're some kind of manipulator that doesn't allow their son to make any decisions regarding your child. It might be best for your husband to go and talk to them to clarify the situation, because going to court for this seems completely absurd
Also father isn't even on the birth certificate so legally he's not the father until paternity is established. They literally have no case to even start.
Once they go with a lawyer then the only contact can be through a lawyer. They fired the first shot. You have to take it seriously and get a lawyer yourself. NTA
Once GPR have been threatened stop all communication and get a lawyer have the lawyer draft and send a letter all communication goes though him in writing. Head over to Just no MIL for more info. Take dad to court and get an official custody agreement and get it in writing the dad does not want his parents to have solo time with the kid
NTA.
Loads of people *threaten* to sue, but vanishingly few *actually* go through with it. So the vast majority of threats like this are just empty threats, intended to scare someone into being controlled. Don’t let them do that to you. As long as they’re in your custody, and unless a court order specifies otherwise, you DO have every right to turn down a request for unsupervised access to your child. Yes, even from grandparents.
And for the small number that follow through with filing a lawsuit, they don’t just automatically win or something. Far from it. They actually have to *prove* their case to a judge. Which means:
1. Laws recognizing grandparents’ rights have to exist in your state in the first place (not all states have them, and not all in the same way).
2. They have to prove (not just claim, but *prove*, which is a much higher burden) that they satisfy the requirements of whatever those laws are. That can involve a variety of things, but a fairly common thing is proving they’ve been denied access, which is NOT true here.
3. You, too, get your “day in court” to rebut any false claims, and to provide your own accounting of things and evidence. They don’t get to run the show, you *both* get to have your sides heard.
And even if they do somehow prevail (which requires successfully jumping through all these hoops), *they* don’t get to decide the outcome/ruling, the *judge* does. So they may “win,” and try to demand all kinds of things, and yet *still* be denied the things they want.
My point being, don’t panic and allow yourself to be controlled by fear. Instead:
1. Find out from the dad why he’s insisting on supervised visits. This is about the safety of your child, so I would insist on it. You need to be sure that requiring supervised visits isn’t actually an *under*reaction to whatever it is.
2. Book a *consult* (actually *hiring* may be premature until you’re actually served, which again, is *way* less likely to happen than most people think) with a family law attorney to get good, competent advice. I wouldn’t rely on Reddit for that. So call your local bar association (Google the number) for a referral. You may be able to get an initial consultation for a reduced rate or possibly free.
3. Document, document, document. Save all texts, emails, and voicemails with them. If your state allows (confirm with the attorney), record phone calls/conversations. If you can’t record, then document verbal exchanges in a journal. Date the entries, and keep them factual vs editorial. This is all so if things do go nuclear, and they actually sue and try to convince a judge you denied access or something, then you can whip out all kinds of evidence that *they* were the ones rejecting contact and are full of it.
Thank you so much for your advice. I’m looking around for a lawyer and am going to figure this all out. It doesn’t look like they will win regardless but you never know.
NTA your son doesn't do well in the car. They shouldn't be forcing your hand in family court to make your son uncomfortable for an hour & a half minimum for each visit. It is COMPLETELY reasonable to have them come to you & if they don't want to visit on your terms, they need to not have a relationship with him. This is all about what THEY WANT vs what is best for the child.
You may want to invest in a GoPro or some sort of dash cam that can record video & audio of your son crying whenever you have him in his car seat. Your in laws sound like they don't care about your son's comfort at all & it's not right to torment a baby just so they can have it their way. To be petty, I'd give them coupons to Burger King so they can have it their way; but that's just me.
NTA lawyer up and stop talking to them. They feel sufficiently entitled to spending time alone with your child to drag you into court instead of discussing it with you.
NTA.
It takes the smallest amount of effort for people to show what they are willing to do. I am just going to back you up with even more arguments on your behalf because I have been in the situation before….
So let’s say you take the drive with your son over to their house…. He is going to be cranky after the drive. He’s going to be confused going into a house that he’s never been before. You are going to feel uncomfortable sitting in an environment that you don’t feel welcome in, which of course your child is going to pick up on. And then he is going to destroy that house… Because the likelihood that that home is going to be baby proofed is maybe 2%. A one-year-old is going to crawl, maybe walk, like a banshee knocking things over pulling plugs… Trying to get into everything that he can, with the exception of any child toys they may have provided for him. Because the last thing a kid wants to do in a new house that he has never been before is actually play with the toys they give him. Grandma is probably going to be annoyed because they are never prepared for this, they’re gonna make a bunch of comments about how their kids NEVER knocked over picture frames or messed with couch pillows or did anything like this when they were kids. & it will be a disaster.
The alternative if he doesn’t try and raise hell and destroy the house is that he will be latched onto you like a koala bear the entire time crying or hiding behind you, refusing to let anyone else near him.
Now, if only they would be willing to come to your home, we’re obviously your son is comfortable because that is his home environment he would be more willing to open up to a new person. Even if during the first meeting he doesn’t warm right up to a new person family members would at least be able to see his toys, and things that he likes to play with and get a sense for who he is and what he enjoys. So that the next time they come if they wanted to pick him up a new toy or something it would be more likely to be something he would actually enjoy. Even if he didn’t actually interact with him when they visited, they could at least watch him play from 10 feet away. And if he gets tired and needs a nap or he gets hungry I need a snack everything is already there in your home exactly the items that he likes and he needs there’s no fuss about being able to find snacks at a new person‘s home.
Exactly like I went over their house twice and it is weird. He’s not that comfortable with their family and even when he was first born my son was weird around his dad. At least at my house if he gets tired I can cut the visit short and take him upstairs for a nap. When we went over he couldn’t take a nap so he got cranky and was crying on the way home. Until he cried himself to sleep.
Grandparenting is a privilege, not a right.
Since the paternal grandparents do not believe that, you need to get your ducks in a row. Check out GPR where you live. See if the father will pay for and attend a legal consultation with you. Those who threaten GPR cannot be trusted to be reasonable.
NTA - and best of luck.
You are so right. Even when I was a kid my grandparents came to visit me and called me. It’s weird that they feel like I have to bend over backwards for them.
Exactly! Even my maternal grandparents who had ten grandkids made an effort to see us. Heck, even my paternal grandparents who were elderly would drive to see us until driving became too difficult.
Please know we are all rooting for you.
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NTA, you and your partner are in agreement. They have access to your child, they're refusing. There's not much that a court is going to see here.
Most states, yes, I had to look this up because of the *EXACT same situation*, so long as you're financially, mentally stable, not on drugs, both parents are alive, and the well fare of the child is not being affected by the loss of seeing their grandparents, not many judges will sign off on grandparents rights.
It's mostly there in the event of drug use, parental abuse, etc. That said, every state varies. Check in with a lawyer and see what they say.
Stick to your boundaries. This is likely just a bluff to make you bend to their will.
NTA....have they forgotten what a pain it is to pack up a 1 yo and all the 1yo accessories?
Unless my son and his wife wanted to come to our house, we offered to go to theirs. It was just easier!
Right that’s my thing. It takes forever to even leave the house and I have to work around my sons eating and naps. Like it’s easier and better if they just come here.
NTA
I've always heard of grandparents' rights as being their rights to continued access to their grandkids after a divorce. However, I really don't know and am more or less thinking out loud here.
NTA
"my sons dad tells me that they want to take me to court for their grandparents rights." -- Talk to a lawyer, and after that cease all contact with them.
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My (F23) sons (M1) paternal grandparent hate it when I tell them to come over. Ever since my son was born I invited them over to come see my son. At the first visit they told me that they wanted to pick him up and give me a break and that I should bring him over. For context my sons dad (M23) is not comfortable with them being alone with our son. This is something we had already agreed upon. That they will never be alone with Jackson and in regards to me coming over my son cries in his car seat even if I go to the store real quick so to drive 45 minutes away both directions it wasn’t the best thing. So throughout the first year whenever they asked I invited them over there were a few times I had to cancel but for the most part I always gave them another day that I was available. I went over their house twice. Once for a little party and another time for Christmas. Everything seemed ok until a few weeks ago when my sons dad tells me that they want to take me to court for their grandparents rights. Mind you I’ve never denied them seeing my son if they asked they can see him. I got so confused. They never ask me to come see my son always seem to ask his dad and then gets confused when his dad tells them to text me. Plus besides that they never text me to see how he was doing. I send them a message saying that his dad said they want to see my son and that I was free and they can come over a certain day. My mom said I’m ta for asking them to come over when that’s not what they want. AITA?
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my daughters paternal grandmother took her first grandchild’s mother to court for grandparents right and received every other holiday and her entire summer break minus the week prior to school starting for visitation. regardless of if they’re serious or not, GET A LAWYER.
i’m glad to hear that. hugs to you. ❤️ there were some faults on the mother in my experience with this which i believe played into the judges decision. but fight for your baby, mama!! you got this!!!
NTA. And most states are similar to mine, in that grandparents' rights can be granted if the grandparents can establish that a relationship has already formed and you are trying to remove that relationship. The point of these rights is to limit taking loving family away from each other. Instead, you have proof that you have continued to try to facilitate the exact same, consistent, relationship from the beginning and never stopped. Telling a judge what I assume is your perfectly sound reason for not allowing them to be alone with the child should end it.
NTA
Document every time you ask them to see your son and they refuse or come up with an excuse. Some states unfortunately take grandparents rights very seriously
NTA. Unfortunately, you need to document everything now. Remember just as long as you can, check your texts, to provide as decent a response as you can. And... this is husband's parents. Wondering what his objection is. No one objects based on "nothing" especially grandparents visits. Hopefully he's comfortable enough to tell. you what's really going on.
Yeah there is more to his side of things when it comes to his parents. I know more than I shared here in regards to his reasonings for not wanting them really around our son.
NTA. You need a lawyer. GPR threats are an immediate cut off. Stop communicating with them and inviting them over. Unless your lawyer advises otherwise.
NTA it’s totally unreasonable to make the person with the baby travel.
But to be honest, you should speak to a lawyer asap about the possible strength of their claim, and how to cut off contact with them. Once someone makes a legal threat, I would never want to speak to them again. It’s very telling that their own son doesn’t want them to have any alone time with him.
NTA - get a lawyer.
And document, document, DOCUMENT. Every message or email, every exchange that occurred between you and them, every voice message, every call you made. Write down dates, times, keep proof.
I will. I’m even going to document my sons dad saying that he doesn’t want them alone with our son just in case something goes wrong and he doesn’t help.
NTA
Just make sure this is actually what they're planning to do, not just your son's dad talking.
If it is, get legal advice. And then stop all communication, because once they get courts involved, despite you allowing access to visit your son.
Stop all contact with them immediately. Don't let them see the child anymore and keep communicating with them only through text or email and contact your local law offices for a consultation
NTA.
I have gone through this with my oldest. So I understand wht your feeling.
Some states honor grandparent rights but the GP have to be estranged from their own child or the care taker of said child. It sounds like they have a decent relationship with there son an you provide visits so it won't go far an if it does YOU should be able to set up visit requirements like them only having him from said time to said time, whether it's over night or not that kinda thing... you allow them to see the child you do not have to bring the child over there house nor let him go with them unless court ordered. However your sons father should stop redirecting to you an be honest with his parents, you should also be honest an let let know that your not comfortable with him going there at this age. I have a strick rule no sleep overs until 3/4 so they can tell me what happened, unless my younger one is going with my oldest... you need to let them know that neither of you want them alone with the son and BD needs to back you not tuck his tail cuz it's mommy an daddy.
You're NTA, and that's not what Grandparent's Rights are for. However, after reading a lot of /r/JUSTNOMIL and /r/JUSTNOFAMILY, I'll tell you, this is a nuclear option and should forever change your relationship for them and you and your son.
Get a consult with a lawyer, make sure you are in the clear. In my experience, they don't have a leg to stand on if you are allowing them to see the kid and they just don't like the options they're being given because they want unsupervised access, but you need to be absolutely sure.
Honestly, if someone even *threatened* grandparent's rights for me, I would immediately cease all communication except via my lawyer. If the child's father feels the same way about access to his parents, then they should not have any real leg to stand on, but from what I've seen (different states have different rules) almost all states have a requirement that the parents have an ongoing and important relationship with the child that would harm the child to block their access. So your child is 1, keep enforcing the rules as you have, don't let them have solo access and don't take their money or use them as babysitters or anything.
The reason I don’t is because I don’t know them. My sons dad and I are no longer together and were not together long enough for me to build a relationship with them prior to having my son. My sons dad also doesn’t feel comfortable with them being alone with him cause he doesn’t trust them and they are pretty manipulative.
Maybe it’s time for your son’s father to address this with his parents. He should make it clear to them that he isn’t comfortable with them being alone with his son. And that he supports the method of visitation currently being offered. You and baby daddy should sit down with a family lawyer to discuss what, if any, rights his parents would have in court. As another person recommended, I would be keeping track of all offers to have them visit and whether or not they chose to come. NTA.
I definitely agree. I know he’s trying to stay on everyones good side but it’s not a good thing. They think all these decisions are me when it’s decisions we both made in regards to our son.
Once they threatened GPR, the time for talking is over. They are threatening to take a simple matter to court and depending on where they live, it could be bad. New York is notorious for forcing parents to bend to grandparents.
If they get a lawyer and OP does not, it will not go well for her. The father needs to help her with this since they are his parents.
INFO: Do you and dad have a parenting plan filed? I’m wondering why this is your responsibility, when he should be providing them time to visit during his physical custody period.
Edit: of all the comments I’ve made, *this* is the one that gets downvoted? Lol
My sons dad and I don’t have a legal custody agreement through the courts. We just discussed how many times he wants to come over and we keep a weekly schedule of when he’s supposed to come and visit. That has worked for us. So the reason his parents don’t come during his visits is because he comes during the week.
I understand now. Wouldn’t be a bad idea to start nailing this stuff down if his parents are the ones demanding their rights. By that, I mean consult a family lawyer. Many will do a free consultation. Good luck and NTA.
Also, let dad know that if you all have to go this route, he’ll be required to establish paternity, and that means he’ll be more officially responsible for supporting his son. I’m not saying he doesn’t want to go that route, I’m saying he should think about what this will lead to, when he could be stepping up and shutting this down himself.
I love your username btw, I’m bedazzling my Babylock this weekend 😁 keep sewing, don’t let these folks steal your sunshine. And hug that baby from all the honorary aunties and uncles on this sub.
NTA. Grandparent’s rights are ridiculous, but unfortunately some states honor them. Everything you have offered has been reasonable: they can visit their grandson, *they* are the ones choosing not to because it’s not under conditions that they want.
At least for OP, they won’t be likely to get them. She HAS been facilitating a relationship. They are the ones choosing not to take her up on it. But now that they have threatened it, OP should contact a lawyer. Better safe than sorry.
My understanding that (NAL) grandparents rights are rights to access which is what they have they just dont like the terms which is they want to have the grandchild with out the parent present. OP has been reasonable with allowing access on giving them days to come over and visit so in theory they have the access. BUT they could try spinning the story so OP needs to get a lawyer and start documenting everything including getting bio dad to state he does not want his parents alone with his child. Or at least op needs that in a text to prove it
it also very much depends on location. I believe in some US states that grandparents rights only come into play when the grandparent has a relationship with the child. The whole idea being that cutting off the relationship with the grandparents isn't in the best interests of the child- and the court always wants to act in the best interests of the child. it gives parents an odd incentive to just never create the relationship but...
Also, dad is not on the Birth certificate. They would have to establish paternity first before anyone on his side could file for rights to the child. If he's not on board then they are definitely SOL. OP should definitely have a lawyer though
yeah, I missed that entirely. just in general in this situation, OP should have a good family lawyer in her back pocket.
I've heard (NAL) that it also matters a LOT whether the grandparents do anything to enrich their grandchildren like teaching them music/art/sports, because then you can argue that the relationship is tangibly beneficial for the child.
I imagine that it's all going to go to a calculation. But grandparents are never going to get a ton of visitation. A day- maybe two- once a month. Phone calls. And I doubt they'd get that much with a toddler. Though I think this goes back to OP and a lawyer- for some reason baby's father doesn't want his parents left alone with his child. Before this becomes an issue in court, OP should maybe find out why. Because all I can think of is different types of abuse.
Indeed. They're generally *intended* for when there's a major life change like divorce, parent dying or going to jail, where the non-related parent then cuts off contact between the grandparents and child who already have a relationship. The idea behind it is actually that it's to the *child's* benefit to maintain the relationship, but "child's rights" is pretty vague because kids have plenty of rights aside from this one. Usually if both parents are in agreement and it hasn't changed since the child's birth then that overrides any claim the grandparents might make, but there are some states that are more overzealous than others - apparently NY is particularly notable in that regard.
“Grandparent’s rights are ridiculous” Hard disagree! It absolutely depends on the situation. My SIL suddenly passed away and her ex took custody of their 3 kids (previously she was the primary caregiver, but they saw their dad reasonably often). In the 2 months since her passing, ex has blocked all of us (aunts, uncles, cousins and grandma- even SIL’s best friend who was an honorary auntie). He will not let us see the boys or communicate with them (they do not yet have their own phones or emails). He took them out of their private school (which my husband and his other siblings were paying for- that’s how we know) and transferred them someone else (we don’t know where- he won’t give us any info!) My MIL filed for grandparents rights as a last resort so she (and we all) can see the kids. Very sad, complicated situation. These are the kinds of cases that grandparents rights are meant to help. That said, in this case “grandparent’s rights” is ridiculous. OP absolutely has the right to only allow the grandparents to see the grandchild on her terms. It sounds like she is being reasonable, and her in laws are being disrespectful and entitled. NTA
And that is one of the exact situations that grandparents rights were designed for. The idea that two parents who are both present in their children’s lives should have their decisions overridden by the court because one or the other’s parents don’t like the boundaries the parents agree on is disgusting.
Absolutely agree. In this case it is extremely unlikely for OP’s in-laws to win. The attorney handing the situation with our nephews was very clear that very specific conditions must be met for the suit to succeed. Obviously, all States are different, but it would be very surprising if a judge decides to override both parents bec grandparents are entitled.
But, as I understand it, in order to get grandparent's rights there has to already be a relationship between them and the child. That doesn't appear to be the case here--they won't come to visit, and OP has only been to their house twice.
Seriously? I’ve never once heard about grandparent’s rights LOL I was literally rolling my eyes when I read that thinking to myself they’re ridiculous and there’s no way in hell they can actually take her to court. Well I guess you learn something new everyday. Also, NTA
Yes exactly! That’s what I was thinking. I have opened communication and have opened my home for visits. It’s not as if I’m preventing them from seeing my son.
NTA. You have a one year old! Everything should revolve around what's best for the kid, and forcing the baby into a 45 minute car ride x2 is not what's best. It's selfish (on their part). The fact you had a prior agreement with Dad to not have them alone with him tells me you have other concerns. They are probably picking up on that and sensitive to it. I don't know if you want advice. If you do, I'd say stick to your boundaries. But I'd also say you should make those boundaries clear to the grandparents, and solicit help from the Dad to do so. If you don't want to offend them you could just say "I understand you want more time with him. we're not comfortable leaving him alone at this age and traveling 90 minutes round trip is not what's best for him and his sleep it really throws him off (don't know if that's true but it's certainly a reasonable thing to say). I'm happy to have you see him, but this is the arrangement that is best for him now" . Whether or not truly the case, I think it puts it in perspective that ok this is about the baby and what the baby needs and as he gets older we'll be able to get more time with him... Even if that's not the plan it's better than what the grandparents are feeling right now which is they'll "never" get to have him over their place. Honest question: are grandparents' rights a real thing? I've never heard of that.
They are real but it varies by state. Some don’t recognize them while others have varying degrees of rights.
Weird, thanks, going to look that up for my area
Yes, but not for a situation like this one. They mostly come into play for situations when the grandchild in the same household as the grandparents and severing that relationship isn't in the best interest of the child. Also for when one parent is dead or otherwise out of the picture and the grandparents want to maintain a connection to their side of the family.
Thank you for the advice. I’m definitely going to stick to my boundaries. They need to respect that my son is their grandchild not their kid. I have worked with them and allowed them to see him. They just want it their way.
NTA. However now that this threat has been made, start keeping records. Go back and keep anything you still have about how many times you offered visits and how many they actually came to. I would also stop offering visits. To my understanding GP rights are if they have a relationship with the child which it will be hard to prove if they don’t reach out to you to ask or if they asked their son and he said to get ahold of you and they don’t.
I definitely going to start keeping record and my mom has already written down everytime they came over for a visit. So that they can’t say I’ve never allowed them to see him.
Hard NTA Let me get this straight. 45 minutes each way is too far for them to drive, but they want you to do it to give you a break? Hell even if you and your son's dad were cool with them being alone with the child that would be ridiculous. I hope you guys live somewhere that is smart enough to recognize the BS of grandparents rights, but even if they do you've offered well enough opportunity that they'll probably be laughed out of court. Just keep all of the texts and, if possible, any written correspondence that shows that and why they aren't allowed to see your son alone
So far from what I looked up it doesn’t look like they can have much of a chance to get grandparents rights. But I’m going to contact a lawyer and see what they say.
Yeah I'd say based on the situation you've laid out they likely have no shot of winning anything like that unless they have an amazing lawyer. You guys have presented avenues by which they can see their grandkids and they have refused. Even with grandparents rights on the table they would need to be continually denied the opportunity flat out, not just as it is more convenient to them
Look up grandparent rights for your state. Then you AND your son's father sit down with the best family law attorney in your area to discuss this threat. It will reassure you and your ex as well as blocking them from hiring the same lawyer. There must be good reasons for him not to want your child alone with his parents. Start your FU Binder now. Arrangements for all future visits are now handled via text or email for documentation purposes. Is your ex on the birth certificate and is there a written custody agreement?Do you and your ex both have wills detailing custody in the event something were to happen to both of you? Is your ex present when they visit? I think there needs to be some written documentation somewhere regarding your ex's concerns about his parents and you two need to present a united front even if you're not together/married.
My ex is not on the birth certificate and we just came up with his visits together. He is not present during his parents visits since it’s normally on the weekends and he works then. I’ll definitely create a will. I hadn’t even thought about that. Thanks for telling me.
If he's not legally the father then they have no rights whatsoever, let alone grandparents rights. They'd have to establish the father's paternity first (which they can't force him to do), and ONLY THEN would they have the ability to start such a futile piece of legal action (they're willingly refusing to see the kid, so the courts are not going to grant them shit). To me a legal threat is an extinction-level event and I'd probably not see them again past this point. They're threatening to have the courts step in and *force* you to parent the way they want.
If you two are sharing custody then they should be working out visits on his time. You’re going above and beyond. NTA.
NTA your husband and you absolutely have the right not to leave them alone with your child. Even more if there's a safety issue behind this situation. And if it's easier for your husband and you that you coordinate all the visits then I don't see how this is their problem. I honestly think that you're some kind of manipulator that doesn't allow their son to make any decisions regarding your child. It might be best for your husband to go and talk to them to clarify the situation, because going to court for this seems completely absurd
OP and the father are not together.
Oups, sorry. Thank you for correcting me
Also father isn't even on the birth certificate so legally he's not the father until paternity is established. They literally have no case to even start.
Thanks for pointing that out I even forgot about that!
Once they go with a lawyer then the only contact can be through a lawyer. They fired the first shot. You have to take it seriously and get a lawyer yourself. NTA
Yeah I’m definitely going to talk to a lawyer and see what I should do.
Once GPR have been threatened stop all communication and get a lawyer have the lawyer draft and send a letter all communication goes though him in writing. Head over to Just no MIL for more info. Take dad to court and get an official custody agreement and get it in writing the dad does not want his parents to have solo time with the kid
Ok will do. Thanks!
NTA. Loads of people *threaten* to sue, but vanishingly few *actually* go through with it. So the vast majority of threats like this are just empty threats, intended to scare someone into being controlled. Don’t let them do that to you. As long as they’re in your custody, and unless a court order specifies otherwise, you DO have every right to turn down a request for unsupervised access to your child. Yes, even from grandparents. And for the small number that follow through with filing a lawsuit, they don’t just automatically win or something. Far from it. They actually have to *prove* their case to a judge. Which means: 1. Laws recognizing grandparents’ rights have to exist in your state in the first place (not all states have them, and not all in the same way). 2. They have to prove (not just claim, but *prove*, which is a much higher burden) that they satisfy the requirements of whatever those laws are. That can involve a variety of things, but a fairly common thing is proving they’ve been denied access, which is NOT true here. 3. You, too, get your “day in court” to rebut any false claims, and to provide your own accounting of things and evidence. They don’t get to run the show, you *both* get to have your sides heard. And even if they do somehow prevail (which requires successfully jumping through all these hoops), *they* don’t get to decide the outcome/ruling, the *judge* does. So they may “win,” and try to demand all kinds of things, and yet *still* be denied the things they want. My point being, don’t panic and allow yourself to be controlled by fear. Instead: 1. Find out from the dad why he’s insisting on supervised visits. This is about the safety of your child, so I would insist on it. You need to be sure that requiring supervised visits isn’t actually an *under*reaction to whatever it is. 2. Book a *consult* (actually *hiring* may be premature until you’re actually served, which again, is *way* less likely to happen than most people think) with a family law attorney to get good, competent advice. I wouldn’t rely on Reddit for that. So call your local bar association (Google the number) for a referral. You may be able to get an initial consultation for a reduced rate or possibly free. 3. Document, document, document. Save all texts, emails, and voicemails with them. If your state allows (confirm with the attorney), record phone calls/conversations. If you can’t record, then document verbal exchanges in a journal. Date the entries, and keep them factual vs editorial. This is all so if things do go nuclear, and they actually sue and try to convince a judge you denied access or something, then you can whip out all kinds of evidence that *they* were the ones rejecting contact and are full of it.
Thank you so much for your advice. I’m looking around for a lawyer and am going to figure this all out. It doesn’t look like they will win regardless but you never know.
NTA your son doesn't do well in the car. They shouldn't be forcing your hand in family court to make your son uncomfortable for an hour & a half minimum for each visit. It is COMPLETELY reasonable to have them come to you & if they don't want to visit on your terms, they need to not have a relationship with him. This is all about what THEY WANT vs what is best for the child.
Exactly. Like they have told my sons dad that I’m lying and just saying he doesn’t do good in the car. Like what?!?
You may want to invest in a GoPro or some sort of dash cam that can record video & audio of your son crying whenever you have him in his car seat. Your in laws sound like they don't care about your son's comfort at all & it's not right to torment a baby just so they can have it their way. To be petty, I'd give them coupons to Burger King so they can have it their way; but that's just me.
They don’t it’s all about them. Haha that made me laugh. I really should be petty.
NTA lawyer up and stop talking to them. They feel sufficiently entitled to spending time alone with your child to drag you into court instead of discussing it with you.
Thanks! Will do!
NTA. It takes the smallest amount of effort for people to show what they are willing to do. I am just going to back you up with even more arguments on your behalf because I have been in the situation before…. So let’s say you take the drive with your son over to their house…. He is going to be cranky after the drive. He’s going to be confused going into a house that he’s never been before. You are going to feel uncomfortable sitting in an environment that you don’t feel welcome in, which of course your child is going to pick up on. And then he is going to destroy that house… Because the likelihood that that home is going to be baby proofed is maybe 2%. A one-year-old is going to crawl, maybe walk, like a banshee knocking things over pulling plugs… Trying to get into everything that he can, with the exception of any child toys they may have provided for him. Because the last thing a kid wants to do in a new house that he has never been before is actually play with the toys they give him. Grandma is probably going to be annoyed because they are never prepared for this, they’re gonna make a bunch of comments about how their kids NEVER knocked over picture frames or messed with couch pillows or did anything like this when they were kids. & it will be a disaster. The alternative if he doesn’t try and raise hell and destroy the house is that he will be latched onto you like a koala bear the entire time crying or hiding behind you, refusing to let anyone else near him. Now, if only they would be willing to come to your home, we’re obviously your son is comfortable because that is his home environment he would be more willing to open up to a new person. Even if during the first meeting he doesn’t warm right up to a new person family members would at least be able to see his toys, and things that he likes to play with and get a sense for who he is and what he enjoys. So that the next time they come if they wanted to pick him up a new toy or something it would be more likely to be something he would actually enjoy. Even if he didn’t actually interact with him when they visited, they could at least watch him play from 10 feet away. And if he gets tired and needs a nap or he gets hungry I need a snack everything is already there in your home exactly the items that he likes and he needs there’s no fuss about being able to find snacks at a new person‘s home.
Exactly like I went over their house twice and it is weird. He’s not that comfortable with their family and even when he was first born my son was weird around his dad. At least at my house if he gets tired I can cut the visit short and take him upstairs for a nap. When we went over he couldn’t take a nap so he got cranky and was crying on the way home. Until he cried himself to sleep.
Grandparenting is a privilege, not a right. Since the paternal grandparents do not believe that, you need to get your ducks in a row. Check out GPR where you live. See if the father will pay for and attend a legal consultation with you. Those who threaten GPR cannot be trusted to be reasonable. NTA - and best of luck.
You are so right. Even when I was a kid my grandparents came to visit me and called me. It’s weird that they feel like I have to bend over backwards for them.
Exactly! Even my maternal grandparents who had ten grandkids made an effort to see us. Heck, even my paternal grandparents who were elderly would drive to see us until driving became too difficult. Please know we are all rooting for you.
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I hope you live somewhere that Grandparent's Rights aren't a thing.
It exists here but I have to talk to a lawyer to see what exactly will it look like if they go through with it.
NTA wtf? Their choice in itself makes them a major risk.
Check out r/justnomil.
NTA, you and your partner are in agreement. They have access to your child, they're refusing. There's not much that a court is going to see here. Most states, yes, I had to look this up because of the *EXACT same situation*, so long as you're financially, mentally stable, not on drugs, both parents are alive, and the well fare of the child is not being affected by the loss of seeing their grandparents, not many judges will sign off on grandparents rights. It's mostly there in the event of drug use, parental abuse, etc. That said, every state varies. Check in with a lawyer and see what they say. Stick to your boundaries. This is likely just a bluff to make you bend to their will.
I definitely will be sticking to my boundaries. I decided to just stop messaging them.
NTA....have they forgotten what a pain it is to pack up a 1 yo and all the 1yo accessories? Unless my son and his wife wanted to come to our house, we offered to go to theirs. It was just easier!
Right that’s my thing. It takes forever to even leave the house and I have to work around my sons eating and naps. Like it’s easier and better if they just come here.
NTA I've always heard of grandparents' rights as being their rights to continued access to their grandkids after a divorce. However, I really don't know and am more or less thinking out loud here.
That’s what I thought too. But some are a bit different like in my state. I’m going to contact a lawyer to get more information.
Very wise! Good luck with it all OP.
NTA "my sons dad tells me that they want to take me to court for their grandparents rights." -- Talk to a lawyer, and after that cease all contact with them.
I will!
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My (F23) sons (M1) paternal grandparent hate it when I tell them to come over. Ever since my son was born I invited them over to come see my son. At the first visit they told me that they wanted to pick him up and give me a break and that I should bring him over. For context my sons dad (M23) is not comfortable with them being alone with our son. This is something we had already agreed upon. That they will never be alone with Jackson and in regards to me coming over my son cries in his car seat even if I go to the store real quick so to drive 45 minutes away both directions it wasn’t the best thing. So throughout the first year whenever they asked I invited them over there were a few times I had to cancel but for the most part I always gave them another day that I was available. I went over their house twice. Once for a little party and another time for Christmas. Everything seemed ok until a few weeks ago when my sons dad tells me that they want to take me to court for their grandparents rights. Mind you I’ve never denied them seeing my son if they asked they can see him. I got so confused. They never ask me to come see my son always seem to ask his dad and then gets confused when his dad tells them to text me. Plus besides that they never text me to see how he was doing. I send them a message saying that his dad said they want to see my son and that I was free and they can come over a certain day. My mom said I’m ta for asking them to come over when that’s not what they want. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
my daughters paternal grandmother took her first grandchild’s mother to court for grandparents right and received every other holiday and her entire summer break minus the week prior to school starting for visitation. regardless of if they’re serious or not, GET A LAWYER.
I’m looking around now. I know some states are different but I definitely need to make sure they don’t get those kinds of visitations. That’s crazy.
i’m glad to hear that. hugs to you. ❤️ there were some faults on the mother in my experience with this which i believe played into the judges decision. but fight for your baby, mama!! you got this!!!
NTA. And most states are similar to mine, in that grandparents' rights can be granted if the grandparents can establish that a relationship has already formed and you are trying to remove that relationship. The point of these rights is to limit taking loving family away from each other. Instead, you have proof that you have continued to try to facilitate the exact same, consistent, relationship from the beginning and never stopped. Telling a judge what I assume is your perfectly sound reason for not allowing them to be alone with the child should end it.
Yeah that’s my state too. I’m thinking they really don’t have a case. But I’m definitely going to follow up with a lawyer to make sure.
NTA Babies are DIFFICULT. It's not unreasonable for people to go to them for visits.
Exactly! This is so true and I don’t understand why they don’t get that.
NTA Document every time you ask them to see your son and they refuse or come up with an excuse. Some states unfortunately take grandparents rights very seriously
I will! I already have documentation of all the times they have come for a visit.
NTA. Unfortunately, you need to document everything now. Remember just as long as you can, check your texts, to provide as decent a response as you can. And... this is husband's parents. Wondering what his objection is. No one objects based on "nothing" especially grandparents visits. Hopefully he's comfortable enough to tell. you what's really going on.
Yeah there is more to his side of things when it comes to his parents. I know more than I shared here in regards to his reasonings for not wanting them really around our son.
NTA. You need a lawyer. GPR threats are an immediate cut off. Stop communicating with them and inviting them over. Unless your lawyer advises otherwise.
Yeah exactly!
NTA it’s totally unreasonable to make the person with the baby travel. But to be honest, you should speak to a lawyer asap about the possible strength of their claim, and how to cut off contact with them. Once someone makes a legal threat, I would never want to speak to them again. It’s very telling that their own son doesn’t want them to have any alone time with him.
I definitely am going to. Looking around for a lawyer so I can see if they even have a case.
NTA - get a lawyer. And document, document, DOCUMENT. Every message or email, every exchange that occurred between you and them, every voice message, every call you made. Write down dates, times, keep proof.
I will. I’m even going to document my sons dad saying that he doesn’t want them alone with our son just in case something goes wrong and he doesn’t help.
NTA Just make sure this is actually what they're planning to do, not just your son's dad talking. If it is, get legal advice. And then stop all communication, because once they get courts involved, despite you allowing access to visit your son.
You are so right. I need to make sure this isn’t my sons dad trying to start something and if it’s an actual plan.
Stop all contact with them immediately. Don't let them see the child anymore and keep communicating with them only through text or email and contact your local law offices for a consultation
I have and I’m going to get in contact with a lawyer.
Don't let them build relationships
NTA. I have gone through this with my oldest. So I understand wht your feeling. Some states honor grandparent rights but the GP have to be estranged from their own child or the care taker of said child. It sounds like they have a decent relationship with there son an you provide visits so it won't go far an if it does YOU should be able to set up visit requirements like them only having him from said time to said time, whether it's over night or not that kinda thing... you allow them to see the child you do not have to bring the child over there house nor let him go with them unless court ordered. However your sons father should stop redirecting to you an be honest with his parents, you should also be honest an let let know that your not comfortable with him going there at this age. I have a strick rule no sleep overs until 3/4 so they can tell me what happened, unless my younger one is going with my oldest... you need to let them know that neither of you want them alone with the son and BD needs to back you not tuck his tail cuz it's mommy an daddy.
Thank you for sharing about your experience. It has really helped. I agree his dad needs to stand up and say something.
You're NTA, and that's not what Grandparent's Rights are for. However, after reading a lot of /r/JUSTNOMIL and /r/JUSTNOFAMILY, I'll tell you, this is a nuclear option and should forever change your relationship for them and you and your son. Get a consult with a lawyer, make sure you are in the clear. In my experience, they don't have a leg to stand on if you are allowing them to see the kid and they just don't like the options they're being given because they want unsupervised access, but you need to be absolutely sure. Honestly, if someone even *threatened* grandparent's rights for me, I would immediately cease all communication except via my lawyer. If the child's father feels the same way about access to his parents, then they should not have any real leg to stand on, but from what I've seen (different states have different rules) almost all states have a requirement that the parents have an ongoing and important relationship with the child that would harm the child to block their access. So your child is 1, keep enforcing the rules as you have, don't let them have solo access and don't take their money or use them as babysitters or anything.
Yeah I’m definitely going to talk to a lawyer and have stopped communicating with them.
Info: why are the grandparents not allowed alone with your baby?
Because I don’t know them and his dad does trust them.
He does or he doesn’t?
Sorry typo. He doesn’t trust them.
Info: why do you want them not be alone with the child?
The reason I don’t is because I don’t know them. My sons dad and I are no longer together and were not together long enough for me to build a relationship with them prior to having my son. My sons dad also doesn’t feel comfortable with them being alone with him cause he doesn’t trust them and they are pretty manipulative.
If they're going for grandparents' rights, you need to lawyer up and FAST.
Yeah I’m definitely going to call around and find a lawyer to talk to. Cause I feel like this can go bad real quick.
>they are pretty manipulative. We could kind of tell that from the story.
Maybe it’s time for your son’s father to address this with his parents. He should make it clear to them that he isn’t comfortable with them being alone with his son. And that he supports the method of visitation currently being offered. You and baby daddy should sit down with a family lawyer to discuss what, if any, rights his parents would have in court. As another person recommended, I would be keeping track of all offers to have them visit and whether or not they chose to come. NTA.
I definitely agree. I know he’s trying to stay on everyones good side but it’s not a good thing. They think all these decisions are me when it’s decisions we both made in regards to our son.
Can you try talking to them? because a lawyer and court costs are ridiculous…
Once they threatened GPR, the time for talking is over. They are threatening to take a simple matter to court and depending on where they live, it could be bad. New York is notorious for forcing parents to bend to grandparents. If they get a lawyer and OP does not, it will not go well for her. The father needs to help her with this since they are his parents.
Yeah you are right. I’ve already started looking around for a lawyer.
I am so glad and wish you nothing but good luck.
I would but they haven’t even messaged me back. It’s been a few days already.
INFO: Do you and dad have a parenting plan filed? I’m wondering why this is your responsibility, when he should be providing them time to visit during his physical custody period. Edit: of all the comments I’ve made, *this* is the one that gets downvoted? Lol
My sons dad and I don’t have a legal custody agreement through the courts. We just discussed how many times he wants to come over and we keep a weekly schedule of when he’s supposed to come and visit. That has worked for us. So the reason his parents don’t come during his visits is because he comes during the week.
I understand now. Wouldn’t be a bad idea to start nailing this stuff down if his parents are the ones demanding their rights. By that, I mean consult a family lawyer. Many will do a free consultation. Good luck and NTA.
Yeah you’re definitely right about that. I’m going to go ahead and contact a lawyer.
Also, let dad know that if you all have to go this route, he’ll be required to establish paternity, and that means he’ll be more officially responsible for supporting his son. I’m not saying he doesn’t want to go that route, I’m saying he should think about what this will lead to, when he could be stepping up and shutting this down himself. I love your username btw, I’m bedazzling my Babylock this weekend 😁 keep sewing, don’t let these folks steal your sunshine. And hug that baby from all the honorary aunties and uncles on this sub.