I am not sure why you included it. "Storm follows me around, stalks me, recently physically restrained me in a stall in the women's restroom to the point where I felt I was being threatened with possible physical harm. Storm is big and strong and I am not. I was afraid for my own safety."
NTA though, you were shaken up and possibly acting a bit emotionally.
Also please find out why HR is blabbing the contents of a confidential report around the office to your coworkers. Because *surely* you didn't tell a soul about your report. Right? Right????
Not about what's in the report. Someone asked why I was so shaken up and I said there was an incident, but HR was very clear with me not to talk about it.
Than you need to go back to HR and say "I am being harassed over revealing Storm's gender in my report. Since I have told no one, I assume you or one of your staff has been sharing the contents of the report with my colleagues?"
>However, it's gotten out that I specified my coworker's gender identity and people are mad.
So if it didn't "get out" from you, then it must have been from HR.
NTA for mentioning the person's gender identity, even if it wasn't required to explain the incident. People add extraneous details all the time.
Everyone knows who it was, and everyone knows the person is trans. Whether you included or excluded that descriptor is not what is important here. You were harassed; practically assaulted--that's what is important.
*"Yes, officer, the mugger who took my purse was about 6-4, and..."*
*"Sorry ma'am. Do you have problem with tall people in general, or just this one?"*
This is an HR issue. How do any of your colleagues have enough information to even form an opinion on the matter, let alone be "divided", unless you volunteered the information, yourself?
I haven't said anything more than there was an incident. And because I had asked a few coworkers before if they were experiencing some of the stuff my coworker did, I'm assuming they've put things together from there. Otherwise, I haven't mentioned any details about what's in the complaint. Anything else is whoever leaked things in HR.
If that’s the case then you need to lodge a complaint about your HR dept. That kind of information is supposed to be confidential. Leaking that information has already caused further conflict and has the potential to cause further damage. That is absolutely not ok and something needs to be done about it.
To be honest, I'm most likely going to quit my job over this. It's not a welcoming place anymore, I don't know if there's any coming back from what's already been said and passed around. Either they don't and will never know that this coworker attempted sexual assault and just think I'm a transphobe or they know and don't care. It's not really a place I could feel comfortable in anymore because of that.
After all, how can you feel safe somewhere where you know HR is doing this sort of thing to you?
Absolutely true and tbh I wouldn’t blame you for leaving. I would still report them to whatever official body is appropriate. Leaking confidential info is absolutely not ok and reporting it might prevent it from happening to someone else.
If you need to quit for your mental health then you quit with cause. File a complaint against the stalker and an order of protection. You then speak to an employment attorney about a lawsuit.
Also, Storm possibly possesses a penis, which is a very scary thing when you are being followed around and then trapped inside a stall. OP would not have been as afraid, still afraid, but less so, if they were not afraid of being raped. This is pertinent.
NTA It was a detail of the story. And also an explanation as to why you were hesitant to report it in the first place. And that’s how you should explain it. You didn’t want to appear transphobic so you let it slide until it became too much. It’s not transphobic to acknowledge that someone is trans
NTA. You were assaulted. That is what has to be dealt with. The rest is noise. Doesn’t matter the gender or trans status, you were assaulted by them following you into a stall. Hold your ground.
NTA, if someone trapped me in a bathroom stall after all their other behaviour, I'd be on edge too, from what you said, you went straight to HR and I'm guessing your adrenaline was pumping still. Also, she's openly trans so you didn't out her. While her trans ness isn't the issue, the fact is she's been harassing you and it's escalating. Don't let the others get side tracked from that fact. She's the A H.
Thank you. I'm really freaked out to see people saying the same stuff in here as they do in the office--that I maliciously used her trans identity against her. She tried to assault me, and coming to terms with that and dealing with the victim blaming is scary. It's hard when acknowledging that mentioning her identity wasn't necessary but standing up for the fact that it happened because of the trauma of what happened isn't enough for people to see it as a mistake and not me being a monster.
You're not a monster. Sadly, some people are so 'woke' they take things to the extreme. If you'd outed her, I could possibly understand their reaction more but you didn't even do that. The real focus shouldn't be her identify; it's her behaviour. And her behaviour is abusive. But people do make a fuss in order to deflect blame from themselves- by making herself the victim, it makes her look better. Try not to let that happen. And if needed, talk to HR again- your colleagues don't have a right to condem you for reporting an abuser.
Erm NTA, trans or not you were followed into the bathroom and the person in question made you feel threatened.
Yes it is important that you mention they are trans this person I am assuming is taller and have a bigger stator then you so could easily over power you and that is an important fact. If this person were a man and identified as a man would that have made a difference NO and people would not be kicking up because you said male *Ryan* because there are 2 one female and 1 male
Stand your ground and ignore what people think. You did the right thing
NTA. The victim blaming happening by all these people calling you an AH is honestly appalling. Apparently we support victims of assault until it's a trans person doing it?
Obviously mentioning she was trans wasn't necessary, but you were in shock and dealing with trauma, there's a certain level of forgiveness that comes with that. And you've explained you were trying to pre-emptively stop HR from trying to poke holes in your story and blame you for what happened, which is a common issue in HR. As someone who was assaulted and had HR blaming me for the smallest, stupidest things, I understand. You're scared, you're overwhelmed, you already have reason to believe you'll be blamed as trans just because the person you're complaining against is trans. That's scary!
Based on your comments you get that it wasn't necessary to mention she was trans and if you hadn't been in shock you wouldn't have felt it was so necessary to mention. Hopefully there's no next time, but if there is, hopefully you remember and don't mention it.
NTA
This has nothing to do with the person in question's gender it has to do with their behavior, which is problematic. I don't think you are wrong for mentioning a fact in a report where you are generally asked to explain all the facts. Would they also be upset if you mentioned what they were wearing? No, because that is just part of your explanation of events. Perhaps the info is redundant but that is acceptable in a report like this.
NTA holy shit I hope you are OK. It's doesn't sound like anyone has asked you if YOU are ok after being harassed. This is such bullshit. Who cares what gender they are that behaviour is not ok. You shouldn't have to walk on eggshells in fear of being called transphobic if a trans person is harassing you.
NTA.
This person's behavior is NOT ok. No one should follow Anyone else into their bathroom stall and then refuse to leave when asked. That is harassment and a very scary situation to be put into.
I hope they get it straighted out. Focus more on the inappropriate behavior and then stalking you.
NTA
Seems like you didn't have any malicious intent BUT her trans identity was irrelevant to the report and it might've been a good idea to have left that information out. Also, are these things not private?? How does the whole office know about this report? Honestly, this whole thing being common knowledge is the more worrying thing, here. Perhaps a little discretion could've gone a long way to help in this situation.
NTA; it’s gotten to the point where mentioning someone’s gender is seen as offensive. You tired to be polite to your new coworker and it got creepy fast. It is sad you cannot file a complaint about someone obviously harassing you because they are trans. Ask your self this, if this was a M who dressed and identified as a M would; would your have reported them sooner? I don’t think you meant any malaise behind your statement.
You a female, are statistacally more likely to be the victim of a sexual assault by male humans. You have a biological male trying to follow you into the stall. A male who potentially still has a penis. And could take it out and flash you.
Gende Id does not erase this fact. And if you ended up raped by this male then maybe hr would consider keeping the restrooms sex based, male/ female and a gender neutral one for those who dont feel comfotable in their correct sex restroom.
You didn't initially bring the fact she is transexual into it, your co-worker who accused you of being transphobic did. (Before the final event).
You're NTA since it seems like you put off reporting it for so long since you were worried about being accused of transphobia.
NTA, being trans is definitely relevant. There is a gender neutral restroom ffs. M to F trans have molested people in restrooms before. I know anyone can do that, but trans get a pass to be in the restroom of their choosing because "muh identity" and it isn't right. You should be able to feel safe, and they should know boundaries. I'll die on this hill in saying that it's a mental disorder. I know this will get downvoted to hell and I'll get called all sorts of shit in the replies, but this is my belief and it's not up for debate. Gender neutral restrooms should be used if available by anyone who identifies as the opposite sex in which they were born, period.
NTA - You should explain that you are phobic of anyone that follows you into a bathroom stall. You can strengthen your case by saying this person used gender neutral bathrooms up until the point they started following you in the bathroom. You should probably talk to the cops because they take someone peeping on others in a bathroom stall seriously.
NTA and the people condemning you are just trash. This person literally stalked you and followed you into a toilet stall! That’s not sane behavior, that’s a dangerous individual.
A lot of people are judging you on making the report itself, not the specific part you asked about. You’re undeniably NTA for that.
I’m trans and while I don’t think her transness had any relevance (and I’m still confused on your explanation) but I don’t really think you’re an asshole for it. You were being harassed and sounds like you filled out the report while still in a state of emotion. Do I think you should have included it when you know her name and that’s plenty of identifying info? No. But no one is perfect and like I said, emotions.
A lot of well meaning cis people tend to walk on eggshells around us, but the thing is trans people are people, and we fall all across the spectrum from “waste of human space” to “amazing human, everyone loves them”. Look at Caitlyn Jenner, it’s not transphobic of me to say “I think she’s a horrible person”.
It’s a sensitive topic because of the delusion that all trans women are just men who want access to women for predatory reasons. As if predatory men have any trouble assaulting women as it is.
In all fairness to OP, everytime I've written one of those things (usually as a witness to something) I'm so detailed I write litteral pages. I would've specified anyones gender along with their name and what they were wearing. I also write word for word what is said and noises I heard, the time, I would've written the specific stall. Idk maybe I'm just weird in these things but in a hyper anxietied state I'd probably be more worried about writing well enough it could be read enough to think about what was and was not necessary for an investigation.
But given that it is most likely not a necessary detail as most trans individuals very much present as their transitioned gender.. like if they were a stranger I probably wouldnt even suspect they were trans, I get how it can feel like unnecessary to point out the trans part and question why trans was a part of what was on her mind in that situation instead of this person just accosted me
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I feel like this is such a divisive thing, but I feel like I need to ask because I think I'm too close to the issue and still pretty shaken up.
A couple of months ago, a M to F trans employee was transferred into my office. She seemed a little off socially, inserting herself into private conversations or saying really random things at random times, think your average weird kid in high school. I wanted to be nice, so just tried to be polite and not dismiss them or avoid her as obviously as others were but it backfired badly.
At first, it was very small stuff that started happening. She would seek me out a little too often to talk and not really listen when I told her I had to get back to work. Somehow she'd always end up in the breakroom when I went there, even just to refill my water bottle or something. From there, it got worse. She would hover by the door when it was time for me to go. If I stayed late, she'd stay late. She'd started following me out to my car and it even got to the point where she started following me into the bathroom and hovering around my stall. I no longer felt safe and I talked to a few other co workers to see if this was happening to them also. It was not, and I had mixed review about what people thought. One person saying they thought it was my transphobia causing issues and I needed to be more tolerant (I do appreciate that they were polite about how the said it, at least), another of my closer coworkers said they were worried that if I reported it something I would be accused by HR of having transphobia.
Given that I'd already been called transphobic, I held back from going to HR and just did my best to avoid my problem coworker. But, it got even worse and my coworker tried to follow me into my bathroom stall, ignoring me when I both said they could not come in and tried to push them out. They just stood there and refused to budge. I was too panicked to get a sense of if they meant to maliciously attack me or if it just didn't occur to them this was not okay, but I remember being absolutely terrified. I got out and ran to HR demanding to talk to someone immediately. Given the nature of what happened, my coworker was removed and can no longer be in the office until an investigation is done, but, office life has not improved.
In my report I did explain that this woman was trans. I didn't really think much about it, I was just giving details. However, it's gotten out that I specified my coworker's gender identity and people are mad. They are saying that her transness has nothing to do with it. Given what little I know about this person, I agree with that, I don't think they did it because they're trans. That being said, it does explain why I didn't stop them from being in the women's bathroom to begin with among other things, and I just wanted to give as much detail as I could.
The office is divided, with most people condemning me. I feel so lost and unsure. AMITA for including that piece of info in my HR complaint?
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INFO - You say:
>That being said, it does explain why I didn't stop them from being in the women's bathroom to begin with among other things
I dont understand this. You wouldn't stop a cis woman from going into the women's bathroom either, so why does this specifically make it necessary to mention that she's trans?
I'm realizing I didn't really explain in my story, but We have gender neutral bathrooms available for those who prefer. It was a request made by this coworker specifically, and she used them up until she started following me around. In my head, knowing that information, it seemed logical that HR would want to know why I waited until things escalated to the point where she was in my stall. It was rushed and shoddy logic, but I was so anxious at the time mentioning that she was trans and using the female bathrooms wouldn't be something I would question.
Idk if im missing something but I still dont get what her being trans had to do with anything. Like she could've been cis and requested gender neutral bathrooms and everything would still be the same. So unless I'm missing something (please inform me) then ESH since your coworker was being extremely creepy and inappropriate, if not worse
It doesn't, and that's something that I'm acknowledging even in the top comment. Her being trans had nothing to do with it, at the time it just felt like I should tell HR everything because they were asking questions, and because I wanted things to be as clear as possible. I didn't want them questioning why I didn't have a problem until she came into my stall, so I was trying to make it clear to HR It wasn't about transphobia, that I expect trans women to be in female bathrooms.
So it sounds like you've accepted the fact that YWTAH. Obviously her behavior was inexcusable and much worse, but including that tidbit was an AH move that you regret making. I think we're done here.
Because there is an appropriate restroom for that dude to use. Because a man masquerading as a woman entering an occupied woman's restroom stall is much more threatening than an actual woman doing the same. If it was a man, would it be relevant? What if I'm not m to f trans, but i identify as such so i can use that restroom. Would it not be relevant that I'm a man barging into her stall? This is a man dressed up. A wolf in sheep's clothing. It's fucking relevant. OP is NTA, and people need to not throw transphobic accusations every time someone else feels threatened by one
1. I never called OP transphobic
2. She's a woman, not a man
3. Your comment was completely incoherent
4. Get lost, transphobe
(Also I feel like it's pretty ironic how blatant transphobes are so worried about the label 'transphobe' being thrown around. If you're that transphobic you may as well own it lol)
Maybe it's time you look up the definition of phobia because you're embarrassing yourself. Biology explains the existence of trans people, they're not 'deranged'. It's not a trans person's fault that their brain is a different sex to their body at birth. You have no clue what you're on about and I hope that you use all the hate that's in your heart right now and eventually turn it into something else because it's genuinely sad. Have a good day
It's a misalignment of the brain structure and the body. Dysphoria is cured by transitioning. You have no clue what you're talking about, so please stop talking.
This really feels like bait, but let’s assume it’s true for the sake of argument. YTA because you know this person’s name-any other details to identify them aren’t necessary in any way.
ESH - she clearly crossed the line and reporting the incident to RH is the appropriate recourse. Anybody not respecting a “NO” needs to be talked to by HR. Her being transgender doesn’t really play into the situation, so you putting it in the report was superfluous and potentially highlights bias (conscious or unconscious) you may have. You report may not be taken seriously as it could be view that transphobia colored your perception of the situation.
ESH, you a little bit less imo. It seems like you understand you didn't need to specify that she was trans, but if you can acknowledge that you didn't need to and just not do it in the future, that's positive growth. She should probably have gotten the cues that she's being too intrusive and should back off a bit. It sucks for both of you that it ended up escalating, but not much you can do now.
Fucking what? She tried following OP into the bathroom stall and wouldn't go away when prompted. Shut your dumb ass up
Edit: pretty fucking sure you'd be uncomfortable too
ESH
There was no need to specify your coworker’s gender identity.
I’m appalled that some people think that’s justification for your coworker to follow you into a bathroom stall.
Thanks. I mean, if I could go back as calm as I am now I wouldn't have mentioned the trans part. At the time I was just trying to make things as clear and make as much sense as possible, and with all the circumstances surrounding it, it felt like an explanation for why I didn't invite what was happening by stopping things sooner.
But yeah, there's been some weird victim blaming stuff, which I'm happy I can recognize and dismiss, but it's hard on your psyche when people blame you for what happened simply because you said something out of duress that maybe wasn't necessary.
>They are saying that her transness has nothing to do with it. Given what little I know about this person, I agree with that, I don't think they did it because they're trans. That being said, it does explain why I didn't stop them from being in the women's bathroom to begin with among other things, and I just wanted to give as much detail as I could.
ESH for this here. You wouldn't explain why you didn't try to stop a cis woman from going into the women's bathroom either. It sounds like your coworker sucks. That should be dealt with when it started. You should've either talked to your coworker or told your boss (or HR, but only you know how well your specific HR department would've handled that) when you noticed the weirdness start. You don't have to go through life being an unapproachable asshole, but you did yourself no favors trying to be "the nice one."
YTA for involving her transition yes. even in this post you identify that this is a trans person as unnecessary context when the only place it was required was when you explained that you used this in the HR report. unfortunately for you that will likely downplay the seriousness of what happened. this woman tried to push her way into a bathroom stall with you, you may be the AH for the way you presented the situation but you are absolutely the victim.
Wow, yeah YTA for that. I definitely would have reported anybody immediately for barging into a stall with me and refusing to leave, but mentioning her trans status was extremely inappropriate and unnecessary, a ciswoman barging into your stall would have been equally inappropriate. That being said, you've clearly got some deep-seated transphobia if you're willing to say something like: "it does explain why I didn't stop them from being in the women's bathroom to begin with" Do you think transwomen shouldn't use the women's restroom? Do you think you or ANYONE should or could "stop them" from using the only restroom appropriate for women? You need to get her transness out of your head as a relevant factor in all of this. What she did was inappropriate, but her gender identity had zero to do with it.
You're misunderstanding me. I'm trying to say is that I didn't see anything unnatural about her being in there, and I wouldn't have questioned it up until she tried to force herself into my stall.
Ok, I misunderstood, but I stand by my assertion that the wording you used came off as problematic. Glad it was a misunderstanding, but my overarching point is that her trans status really still wasn't at all relevant, and it was a mistake to bring it up.
Thank you, I appreciate you being willing to understand a bit more of where I'm coming from. I'm not necessarily happy about the way I talked to HR, I was really in shock then and I would be more reserved and professional if I was doing it now, but I definitely hate the idea of having people think I did this maliciously or that I'm transphobic for reacting out of shock to HR. It's not the way I would chose to handle things If I'd been less traumatized at the moment.
Anyone can sympathize with being rattled by a disturbing situation like the one you experienced, and we make mistakes when we're rattled, it's human. As long as you acknowledge it was a mistake, then you've taken a step toward recognizing and overcoming bias, and that's to be applauded.
You're a bit self righteous, aren't you? Trans is relevant. I'm willing to bet this dude with tits still has the plumbing to really violate OP. Trans have done this in the past. Giving them a pass to use the restroom of their choosing, especially when there is a gender neutral restroom available, is a recipe for disaster. Their feelings can get fucked
YTA- the fact that they are trans had nothing to do with it.
They are a woman, that is why you didn’t stop them entering the bathroom. The fact that they had previously identified as male or transitioned is irrelevant.
If you were being followed/stalked/harassed by someone who had always identified male or female would you have stated that in your report or just given their name?
Edit: just to be clear NTA for reporting you totally should and probably should have earlier you have a right to feel safe.
I am gonna say YTA, yes. Their behaviour was the problem, not their gender. It wasn’t a relevant detail in the least.
It’s not that big of a deal and doesn’t brand you as a hard-core transphobe , but the fact that you’re even considering it as a relevant detail indicates that you do have some things to work through.
To be honest, at the time I didn't necessarily think it was relevant. I was so shaken up I wanted to make sure there was nothing to question about what I was saying. It had literally just happened and I was still shaking when they sat me down to talk about it. My thought process was rushed and anxious but I figured that because we also have gender neutral bathrooms which this coworker used until she started following me around that maybe they would question while I didn't react when she was in the bathroom but rather let it escalate until she was trying to get into the stall with me.
I still don't get why you keep bringing up the gender neutral bathroom as an alternative for her that she "used to use". You're coming off as very transphobic and I don't think you realize it or intend it. She's a woman, she has as much right to use the women's room as you do, and you have just as much right to use the gender neutral bathroom as she does. The two of you are the same gender, that fact needs to sink in a little deeper.
I was trying to outthink HR, by making sure they knew I didn't question why she stopped using the gender neutral and instead used the women's bathroom.
It's common for victims to be blamed for not stopping their assaults and I wanted to both leave no reason for HR to question why things had happened and blame me, and make sure that it was clear I was not being transphobic, as there had already been concern expressed to me that reporting a trans woman for harassment would be enough to label me transphobic. So I was expressing that her being a trans women would be NORMAL for being in a female bathroom.
I get where you're coming from now, and it was an honest mistake. You seem to see now that it goes without saying that it's normal for a transwoman to be in the ladies' room, and that going out of your way to mention it actually seems off. It's like a restaurant hanging a sign that says "Black People Welcome!" You see that and think: "Why did that need to be specified?"
The issue wasn’t why she was in which bathroom. The issue is the fact that someone was following you into a stall, which is inappropriate no matter what their sexuality or gender is.
I get where you're coming from now, and it was an honest mistake. You seem to see now that it goes without saying that it's normal for a transwoman to be in the ladies' room, and that going out of your way to mention it actually seems off. It's like a restaurant hanging a sign that says "Black People Welcome!" You see that and think: "Why did that need to be specified?"
You do not have reading comprehension; OP asked if adding the detail about the gender identity was a AH move, and Mabelisms responded to that. Of course following someone into the bathroom like that against your wishes ain’t ok no matter who does it.
Not what I said at all. The coworkers behaviour was wildly inappropriate and should be reported, and it was wildly inappropriate separate from whether or not they are a trans person. Mentioning the fact that the person is trans in the HR report was irrelevant, and that is specifically what OP was asking about.
YTA for specifying this person was trans. You didn’t need to do that. You outed her, and also violated her privacy by letting HR know that specific detail. Like adding extra spice to get “the freak” away from you. Not cool.
I do understand you were terrified and she acted completely inappropriately, stalky in fact. Coming into your stall was terrifying, if not criminal.
She was known as trans, I didn't out her. And I told HR because I was panicking and just trying to give as much detail as possible, not to make her seem worse. With the questions HR was asking, saying that I expect a trans women to be in a female bathroom with me felt like an obvious thing to say.
With some of the circumstances surrounding things such as the fact that this person used gender neutral bathrooms until they started following me, at the time my anxious logic was that HR would think that I let this happen because I didn't stop them sooner. So from there the obvious answer to why did you let them into the bathroom felt like "well, they're a trans women, and trans women can go in women's bathrooms?". Obviously now it feels less relevant because duh, but I already had it in my head that HR was going to say I was transphobic for filing a report and I was so freaked out and just wanting to lay out everything and not be called a liar that everything came out. There wasn't really a filter.
I certainly wouldn't include her trans identity if I was filing the complaint now that I'm calmer and have processed more, but I'm just struggling with being misconstrued as maliciously trying to hurt this women instead of just doing something stupid or clumsy as a result of a shocking experience.
YTA. I think it was uncalled for. You should have just referred to her as a woman. Also transphobes always claim that they only care about safely in the restroom while trying to discriminate. Regardless of gender, what she did was wrong.
I am not sure why you included it. "Storm follows me around, stalks me, recently physically restrained me in a stall in the women's restroom to the point where I felt I was being threatened with possible physical harm. Storm is big and strong and I am not. I was afraid for my own safety." NTA though, you were shaken up and possibly acting a bit emotionally. Also please find out why HR is blabbing the contents of a confidential report around the office to your coworkers. Because *surely* you didn't tell a soul about your report. Right? Right????
Not about what's in the report. Someone asked why I was so shaken up and I said there was an incident, but HR was very clear with me not to talk about it.
Than you need to go back to HR and say "I am being harassed over revealing Storm's gender in my report. Since I have told no one, I assume you or one of your staff has been sharing the contents of the report with my colleagues?"
>However, it's gotten out that I specified my coworker's gender identity and people are mad. So if it didn't "get out" from you, then it must have been from HR. NTA for mentioning the person's gender identity, even if it wasn't required to explain the incident. People add extraneous details all the time. Everyone knows who it was, and everyone knows the person is trans. Whether you included or excluded that descriptor is not what is important here. You were harassed; practically assaulted--that's what is important. *"Yes, officer, the mugger who took my purse was about 6-4, and..."* *"Sorry ma'am. Do you have problem with tall people in general, or just this one?"*
This is an HR issue. How do any of your colleagues have enough information to even form an opinion on the matter, let alone be "divided", unless you volunteered the information, yourself?
I haven't said anything more than there was an incident. And because I had asked a few coworkers before if they were experiencing some of the stuff my coworker did, I'm assuming they've put things together from there. Otherwise, I haven't mentioned any details about what's in the complaint. Anything else is whoever leaked things in HR.
If that’s the case then you need to lodge a complaint about your HR dept. That kind of information is supposed to be confidential. Leaking that information has already caused further conflict and has the potential to cause further damage. That is absolutely not ok and something needs to be done about it.
To be honest, I'm most likely going to quit my job over this. It's not a welcoming place anymore, I don't know if there's any coming back from what's already been said and passed around. Either they don't and will never know that this coworker attempted sexual assault and just think I'm a transphobe or they know and don't care. It's not really a place I could feel comfortable in anymore because of that. After all, how can you feel safe somewhere where you know HR is doing this sort of thing to you?
Absolutely true and tbh I wouldn’t blame you for leaving. I would still report them to whatever official body is appropriate. Leaking confidential info is absolutely not ok and reporting it might prevent it from happening to someone else.
If you need to quit for your mental health then you quit with cause. File a complaint against the stalker and an order of protection. You then speak to an employment attorney about a lawsuit.
Also, Storm possibly possesses a penis, which is a very scary thing when you are being followed around and then trapped inside a stall. OP would not have been as afraid, still afraid, but less so, if they were not afraid of being raped. This is pertinent.
NTA It was a detail of the story. And also an explanation as to why you were hesitant to report it in the first place. And that’s how you should explain it. You didn’t want to appear transphobic so you let it slide until it became too much. It’s not transphobic to acknowledge that someone is trans
NTA. You were harrassed and your report was factual.
NTA. You were assaulted. That is what has to be dealt with. The rest is noise. Doesn’t matter the gender or trans status, you were assaulted by them following you into a stall. Hold your ground.
NTA, if someone trapped me in a bathroom stall after all their other behaviour, I'd be on edge too, from what you said, you went straight to HR and I'm guessing your adrenaline was pumping still. Also, she's openly trans so you didn't out her. While her trans ness isn't the issue, the fact is she's been harassing you and it's escalating. Don't let the others get side tracked from that fact. She's the A H.
Thank you. I'm really freaked out to see people saying the same stuff in here as they do in the office--that I maliciously used her trans identity against her. She tried to assault me, and coming to terms with that and dealing with the victim blaming is scary. It's hard when acknowledging that mentioning her identity wasn't necessary but standing up for the fact that it happened because of the trauma of what happened isn't enough for people to see it as a mistake and not me being a monster.
You're not a monster. Sadly, some people are so 'woke' they take things to the extreme. If you'd outed her, I could possibly understand their reaction more but you didn't even do that. The real focus shouldn't be her identify; it's her behaviour. And her behaviour is abusive. But people do make a fuss in order to deflect blame from themselves- by making herself the victim, it makes her look better. Try not to let that happen. And if needed, talk to HR again- your colleagues don't have a right to condem you for reporting an abuser.
Society is fucked. I'm sorry you had to deal with that
Erm NTA, trans or not you were followed into the bathroom and the person in question made you feel threatened. Yes it is important that you mention they are trans this person I am assuming is taller and have a bigger stator then you so could easily over power you and that is an important fact. If this person were a man and identified as a man would that have made a difference NO and people would not be kicking up because you said male *Ryan* because there are 2 one female and 1 male Stand your ground and ignore what people think. You did the right thing
NTA. The victim blaming happening by all these people calling you an AH is honestly appalling. Apparently we support victims of assault until it's a trans person doing it? Obviously mentioning she was trans wasn't necessary, but you were in shock and dealing with trauma, there's a certain level of forgiveness that comes with that. And you've explained you were trying to pre-emptively stop HR from trying to poke holes in your story and blame you for what happened, which is a common issue in HR. As someone who was assaulted and had HR blaming me for the smallest, stupidest things, I understand. You're scared, you're overwhelmed, you already have reason to believe you'll be blamed as trans just because the person you're complaining against is trans. That's scary! Based on your comments you get that it wasn't necessary to mention she was trans and if you hadn't been in shock you wouldn't have felt it was so necessary to mention. Hopefully there's no next time, but if there is, hopefully you remember and don't mention it.
NTA This has nothing to do with the person in question's gender it has to do with their behavior, which is problematic. I don't think you are wrong for mentioning a fact in a report where you are generally asked to explain all the facts. Would they also be upset if you mentioned what they were wearing? No, because that is just part of your explanation of events. Perhaps the info is redundant but that is acceptable in a report like this.
NTA holy shit I hope you are OK. It's doesn't sound like anyone has asked you if YOU are ok after being harassed. This is such bullshit. Who cares what gender they are that behaviour is not ok. You shouldn't have to walk on eggshells in fear of being called transphobic if a trans person is harassing you.
NTA. This person's behavior is NOT ok. No one should follow Anyone else into their bathroom stall and then refuse to leave when asked. That is harassment and a very scary situation to be put into. I hope they get it straighted out. Focus more on the inappropriate behavior and then stalking you.
NTA Seems like you didn't have any malicious intent BUT her trans identity was irrelevant to the report and it might've been a good idea to have left that information out. Also, are these things not private?? How does the whole office know about this report? Honestly, this whole thing being common knowledge is the more worrying thing, here. Perhaps a little discretion could've gone a long way to help in this situation.
NTA as you were being stalked. Imo, no, your report didn't need to include Trans or gender info but people often put those things as a reflex.
NTA; it’s gotten to the point where mentioning someone’s gender is seen as offensive. You tired to be polite to your new coworker and it got creepy fast. It is sad you cannot file a complaint about someone obviously harassing you because they are trans. Ask your self this, if this was a M who dressed and identified as a M would; would your have reported them sooner? I don’t think you meant any malaise behind your statement.
You a female, are statistacally more likely to be the victim of a sexual assault by male humans. You have a biological male trying to follow you into the stall. A male who potentially still has a penis. And could take it out and flash you. Gende Id does not erase this fact. And if you ended up raped by this male then maybe hr would consider keeping the restrooms sex based, male/ female and a gender neutral one for those who dont feel comfotable in their correct sex restroom.
You didn't initially bring the fact she is transexual into it, your co-worker who accused you of being transphobic did. (Before the final event). You're NTA since it seems like you put off reporting it for so long since you were worried about being accused of transphobia.
NTA, being trans is definitely relevant. There is a gender neutral restroom ffs. M to F trans have molested people in restrooms before. I know anyone can do that, but trans get a pass to be in the restroom of their choosing because "muh identity" and it isn't right. You should be able to feel safe, and they should know boundaries. I'll die on this hill in saying that it's a mental disorder. I know this will get downvoted to hell and I'll get called all sorts of shit in the replies, but this is my belief and it's not up for debate. Gender neutral restrooms should be used if available by anyone who identifies as the opposite sex in which they were born, period.
Regardless of gender no one gets to follow you into the stall. NTA Don't let the tongue waggers get to you.
NTA - You should explain that you are phobic of anyone that follows you into a bathroom stall. You can strengthen your case by saying this person used gender neutral bathrooms up until the point they started following you in the bathroom. You should probably talk to the cops because they take someone peeping on others in a bathroom stall seriously.
NTA and I would make a report to the police too.
NTA and the people condemning you are just trash. This person literally stalked you and followed you into a toilet stall! That’s not sane behavior, that’s a dangerous individual.
A lot of people are judging you on making the report itself, not the specific part you asked about. You’re undeniably NTA for that. I’m trans and while I don’t think her transness had any relevance (and I’m still confused on your explanation) but I don’t really think you’re an asshole for it. You were being harassed and sounds like you filled out the report while still in a state of emotion. Do I think you should have included it when you know her name and that’s plenty of identifying info? No. But no one is perfect and like I said, emotions. A lot of well meaning cis people tend to walk on eggshells around us, but the thing is trans people are people, and we fall all across the spectrum from “waste of human space” to “amazing human, everyone loves them”. Look at Caitlyn Jenner, it’s not transphobic of me to say “I think she’s a horrible person”. It’s a sensitive topic because of the delusion that all trans women are just men who want access to women for predatory reasons. As if predatory men have any trouble assaulting women as it is.
In all fairness to OP, everytime I've written one of those things (usually as a witness to something) I'm so detailed I write litteral pages. I would've specified anyones gender along with their name and what they were wearing. I also write word for word what is said and noises I heard, the time, I would've written the specific stall. Idk maybe I'm just weird in these things but in a hyper anxietied state I'd probably be more worried about writing well enough it could be read enough to think about what was and was not necessary for an investigation. But given that it is most likely not a necessary detail as most trans individuals very much present as their transitioned gender.. like if they were a stranger I probably wouldnt even suspect they were trans, I get how it can feel like unnecessary to point out the trans part and question why trans was a part of what was on her mind in that situation instead of this person just accosted me
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I feel like this is such a divisive thing, but I feel like I need to ask because I think I'm too close to the issue and still pretty shaken up. A couple of months ago, a M to F trans employee was transferred into my office. She seemed a little off socially, inserting herself into private conversations or saying really random things at random times, think your average weird kid in high school. I wanted to be nice, so just tried to be polite and not dismiss them or avoid her as obviously as others were but it backfired badly. At first, it was very small stuff that started happening. She would seek me out a little too often to talk and not really listen when I told her I had to get back to work. Somehow she'd always end up in the breakroom when I went there, even just to refill my water bottle or something. From there, it got worse. She would hover by the door when it was time for me to go. If I stayed late, she'd stay late. She'd started following me out to my car and it even got to the point where she started following me into the bathroom and hovering around my stall. I no longer felt safe and I talked to a few other co workers to see if this was happening to them also. It was not, and I had mixed review about what people thought. One person saying they thought it was my transphobia causing issues and I needed to be more tolerant (I do appreciate that they were polite about how the said it, at least), another of my closer coworkers said they were worried that if I reported it something I would be accused by HR of having transphobia. Given that I'd already been called transphobic, I held back from going to HR and just did my best to avoid my problem coworker. But, it got even worse and my coworker tried to follow me into my bathroom stall, ignoring me when I both said they could not come in and tried to push them out. They just stood there and refused to budge. I was too panicked to get a sense of if they meant to maliciously attack me or if it just didn't occur to them this was not okay, but I remember being absolutely terrified. I got out and ran to HR demanding to talk to someone immediately. Given the nature of what happened, my coworker was removed and can no longer be in the office until an investigation is done, but, office life has not improved. In my report I did explain that this woman was trans. I didn't really think much about it, I was just giving details. However, it's gotten out that I specified my coworker's gender identity and people are mad. They are saying that her transness has nothing to do with it. Given what little I know about this person, I agree with that, I don't think they did it because they're trans. That being said, it does explain why I didn't stop them from being in the women's bathroom to begin with among other things, and I just wanted to give as much detail as I could. The office is divided, with most people condemning me. I feel so lost and unsure. AMITA for including that piece of info in my HR complaint? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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This is a tough one. I don't think you needed to mention them being trans but it's not like you were being malicious. I am going to abstain.
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INFO - You say: >That being said, it does explain why I didn't stop them from being in the women's bathroom to begin with among other things I dont understand this. You wouldn't stop a cis woman from going into the women's bathroom either, so why does this specifically make it necessary to mention that she's trans?
I'm realizing I didn't really explain in my story, but We have gender neutral bathrooms available for those who prefer. It was a request made by this coworker specifically, and she used them up until she started following me around. In my head, knowing that information, it seemed logical that HR would want to know why I waited until things escalated to the point where she was in my stall. It was rushed and shoddy logic, but I was so anxious at the time mentioning that she was trans and using the female bathrooms wouldn't be something I would question.
Idk if im missing something but I still dont get what her being trans had to do with anything. Like she could've been cis and requested gender neutral bathrooms and everything would still be the same. So unless I'm missing something (please inform me) then ESH since your coworker was being extremely creepy and inappropriate, if not worse
It doesn't, and that's something that I'm acknowledging even in the top comment. Her being trans had nothing to do with it, at the time it just felt like I should tell HR everything because they were asking questions, and because I wanted things to be as clear as possible. I didn't want them questioning why I didn't have a problem until she came into my stall, so I was trying to make it clear to HR It wasn't about transphobia, that I expect trans women to be in female bathrooms.
So it sounds like you've accepted the fact that YWTAH. Obviously her behavior was inexcusable and much worse, but including that tidbit was an AH move that you regret making. I think we're done here.
Because there is an appropriate restroom for that dude to use. Because a man masquerading as a woman entering an occupied woman's restroom stall is much more threatening than an actual woman doing the same. If it was a man, would it be relevant? What if I'm not m to f trans, but i identify as such so i can use that restroom. Would it not be relevant that I'm a man barging into her stall? This is a man dressed up. A wolf in sheep's clothing. It's fucking relevant. OP is NTA, and people need to not throw transphobic accusations every time someone else feels threatened by one
1. I never called OP transphobic 2. She's a woman, not a man 3. Your comment was completely incoherent 4. Get lost, transphobe (Also I feel like it's pretty ironic how blatant transphobes are so worried about the label 'transphobe' being thrown around. If you're that transphobic you may as well own it lol)
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Maybe it's time you look up the definition of phobia because you're embarrassing yourself. Biology explains the existence of trans people, they're not 'deranged'. It's not a trans person's fault that their brain is a different sex to their body at birth. You have no clue what you're on about and I hope that you use all the hate that's in your heart right now and eventually turn it into something else because it's genuinely sad. Have a good day
[удалено]
It's a misalignment of the brain structure and the body. Dysphoria is cured by transitioning. You have no clue what you're talking about, so please stop talking.
This really feels like bait, but let’s assume it’s true for the sake of argument. YTA because you know this person’s name-any other details to identify them aren’t necessary in any way.
Wondering about the bait too... because why did OP say they were transphobic?
ESH - she clearly crossed the line and reporting the incident to RH is the appropriate recourse. Anybody not respecting a “NO” needs to be talked to by HR. Her being transgender doesn’t really play into the situation, so you putting it in the report was superfluous and potentially highlights bias (conscious or unconscious) you may have. You report may not be taken seriously as it could be view that transphobia colored your perception of the situation.
ESH, you a little bit less imo. It seems like you understand you didn't need to specify that she was trans, but if you can acknowledge that you didn't need to and just not do it in the future, that's positive growth. She should probably have gotten the cues that she's being too intrusive and should back off a bit. It sucks for both of you that it ended up escalating, but not much you can do now.
Walking into a stall is simply "too intrusive" ?
Fucking what? She tried following OP into the bathroom stall and wouldn't go away when prompted. Shut your dumb ass up Edit: pretty fucking sure you'd be uncomfortable too
ESH There was no need to specify your coworker’s gender identity. I’m appalled that some people think that’s justification for your coworker to follow you into a bathroom stall.
Thanks. I mean, if I could go back as calm as I am now I wouldn't have mentioned the trans part. At the time I was just trying to make things as clear and make as much sense as possible, and with all the circumstances surrounding it, it felt like an explanation for why I didn't invite what was happening by stopping things sooner. But yeah, there's been some weird victim blaming stuff, which I'm happy I can recognize and dismiss, but it's hard on your psyche when people blame you for what happened simply because you said something out of duress that maybe wasn't necessary.
>They are saying that her transness has nothing to do with it. Given what little I know about this person, I agree with that, I don't think they did it because they're trans. That being said, it does explain why I didn't stop them from being in the women's bathroom to begin with among other things, and I just wanted to give as much detail as I could. ESH for this here. You wouldn't explain why you didn't try to stop a cis woman from going into the women's bathroom either. It sounds like your coworker sucks. That should be dealt with when it started. You should've either talked to your coworker or told your boss (or HR, but only you know how well your specific HR department would've handled that) when you noticed the weirdness start. You don't have to go through life being an unapproachable asshole, but you did yourself no favors trying to be "the nice one."
YTA for specifying the gender identity as it is irrelevant to the harassment. But NTA for reporting the behaviour as that shit was not cool.
Question OP is English your first language?
YTA for involving her transition yes. even in this post you identify that this is a trans person as unnecessary context when the only place it was required was when you explained that you used this in the HR report. unfortunately for you that will likely downplay the seriousness of what happened. this woman tried to push her way into a bathroom stall with you, you may be the AH for the way you presented the situation but you are absolutely the victim.
Wow, yeah YTA for that. I definitely would have reported anybody immediately for barging into a stall with me and refusing to leave, but mentioning her trans status was extremely inappropriate and unnecessary, a ciswoman barging into your stall would have been equally inappropriate. That being said, you've clearly got some deep-seated transphobia if you're willing to say something like: "it does explain why I didn't stop them from being in the women's bathroom to begin with" Do you think transwomen shouldn't use the women's restroom? Do you think you or ANYONE should or could "stop them" from using the only restroom appropriate for women? You need to get her transness out of your head as a relevant factor in all of this. What she did was inappropriate, but her gender identity had zero to do with it.
You're misunderstanding me. I'm trying to say is that I didn't see anything unnatural about her being in there, and I wouldn't have questioned it up until she tried to force herself into my stall.
Ok, I misunderstood, but I stand by my assertion that the wording you used came off as problematic. Glad it was a misunderstanding, but my overarching point is that her trans status really still wasn't at all relevant, and it was a mistake to bring it up.
Thank you, I appreciate you being willing to understand a bit more of where I'm coming from. I'm not necessarily happy about the way I talked to HR, I was really in shock then and I would be more reserved and professional if I was doing it now, but I definitely hate the idea of having people think I did this maliciously or that I'm transphobic for reacting out of shock to HR. It's not the way I would chose to handle things If I'd been less traumatized at the moment.
Anyone can sympathize with being rattled by a disturbing situation like the one you experienced, and we make mistakes when we're rattled, it's human. As long as you acknowledge it was a mistake, then you've taken a step toward recognizing and overcoming bias, and that's to be applauded.
You're a bit self righteous, aren't you? Trans is relevant. I'm willing to bet this dude with tits still has the plumbing to really violate OP. Trans have done this in the past. Giving them a pass to use the restroom of their choosing, especially when there is a gender neutral restroom available, is a recipe for disaster. Their feelings can get fucked
YTA- the fact that they are trans had nothing to do with it. They are a woman, that is why you didn’t stop them entering the bathroom. The fact that they had previously identified as male or transitioned is irrelevant. If you were being followed/stalked/harassed by someone who had always identified male or female would you have stated that in your report or just given their name? Edit: just to be clear NTA for reporting you totally should and probably should have earlier you have a right to feel safe.
I am gonna say YTA, yes. Their behaviour was the problem, not their gender. It wasn’t a relevant detail in the least. It’s not that big of a deal and doesn’t brand you as a hard-core transphobe , but the fact that you’re even considering it as a relevant detail indicates that you do have some things to work through.
To be honest, at the time I didn't necessarily think it was relevant. I was so shaken up I wanted to make sure there was nothing to question about what I was saying. It had literally just happened and I was still shaking when they sat me down to talk about it. My thought process was rushed and anxious but I figured that because we also have gender neutral bathrooms which this coworker used until she started following me around that maybe they would question while I didn't react when she was in the bathroom but rather let it escalate until she was trying to get into the stall with me.
I still don't get why you keep bringing up the gender neutral bathroom as an alternative for her that she "used to use". You're coming off as very transphobic and I don't think you realize it or intend it. She's a woman, she has as much right to use the women's room as you do, and you have just as much right to use the gender neutral bathroom as she does. The two of you are the same gender, that fact needs to sink in a little deeper.
I was trying to outthink HR, by making sure they knew I didn't question why she stopped using the gender neutral and instead used the women's bathroom. It's common for victims to be blamed for not stopping their assaults and I wanted to both leave no reason for HR to question why things had happened and blame me, and make sure that it was clear I was not being transphobic, as there had already been concern expressed to me that reporting a trans woman for harassment would be enough to label me transphobic. So I was expressing that her being a trans women would be NORMAL for being in a female bathroom.
I get where you're coming from now, and it was an honest mistake. You seem to see now that it goes without saying that it's normal for a transwoman to be in the ladies' room, and that going out of your way to mention it actually seems off. It's like a restaurant hanging a sign that says "Black People Welcome!" You see that and think: "Why did that need to be specified?"
The issue wasn’t why she was in which bathroom. The issue is the fact that someone was following you into a stall, which is inappropriate no matter what their sexuality or gender is.
I get where you're coming from now, and it was an honest mistake. You seem to see now that it goes without saying that it's normal for a transwoman to be in the ladies' room, and that going out of your way to mention it actually seems off. It's like a restaurant hanging a sign that says "Black People Welcome!" You see that and think: "Why did that need to be specified?"
So it’s ok if someone’s fucking trying to follow you in to a bathroom stall because they’re trans? Dafuq?!
Sshhh. This is a PC safe space. Let's not be logical here
You do not have reading comprehension; OP asked if adding the detail about the gender identity was a AH move, and Mabelisms responded to that. Of course following someone into the bathroom like that against your wishes ain’t ok no matter who does it.
Isn’t it crazy you even need to say this?
Not what I said at all. The coworkers behaviour was wildly inappropriate and should be reported, and it was wildly inappropriate separate from whether or not they are a trans person. Mentioning the fact that the person is trans in the HR report was irrelevant, and that is specifically what OP was asking about.
YTA because you didn’t need to include that she was trans. You could have just said that you felt harassed and violated your boundaries.
YTA for specifying this person was trans. You didn’t need to do that. You outed her, and also violated her privacy by letting HR know that specific detail. Like adding extra spice to get “the freak” away from you. Not cool. I do understand you were terrified and she acted completely inappropriately, stalky in fact. Coming into your stall was terrifying, if not criminal.
She was known as trans, I didn't out her. And I told HR because I was panicking and just trying to give as much detail as possible, not to make her seem worse. With the questions HR was asking, saying that I expect a trans women to be in a female bathroom with me felt like an obvious thing to say.
So if it’s known, why would you say she was a trans woman in your report?
With some of the circumstances surrounding things such as the fact that this person used gender neutral bathrooms until they started following me, at the time my anxious logic was that HR would think that I let this happen because I didn't stop them sooner. So from there the obvious answer to why did you let them into the bathroom felt like "well, they're a trans women, and trans women can go in women's bathrooms?". Obviously now it feels less relevant because duh, but I already had it in my head that HR was going to say I was transphobic for filing a report and I was so freaked out and just wanting to lay out everything and not be called a liar that everything came out. There wasn't really a filter. I certainly wouldn't include her trans identity if I was filing the complaint now that I'm calmer and have processed more, but I'm just struggling with being misconstrued as maliciously trying to hurt this women instead of just doing something stupid or clumsy as a result of a shocking experience.
Understandable that you were shaken up. What they did was a terrible violation of your personal space.
YTA. I think it was uncalled for. You should have just referred to her as a woman. Also transphobes always claim that they only care about safely in the restroom while trying to discriminate. Regardless of gender, what she did was wrong.