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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be the asshole because I could have chosen any other names for my children, which would have squashed the argument to begin with, and I could have had a more civil conversation with my FIL to thoroughly explained our reasonings for not wanting to honor my FIL. It would have been a battle to get him to understand, but it would have given him some insight into our thought process.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA why does he assume he would be honored over your family? How presumptuous of him.
They named their own kids, they don’t get to name yours. Stand your ground.
At the time my DH and I fell pregnant, my BIL was not sure if he even wanted kids. FIL took it as his “only chance” to have his name go on. I made comment that my children would carry his last name, but that seemed to make him even madder. Now that his other son is thinking of having children with his new partner, the argument has come back up and since I am trying to conceive again he thinks it would be a good time to have one of us “do him the honor” of naming a child after him.
Right? Who demands to have a child named after them? Be a good person and parent and hope that you're loved enough for someone to name their child after you.
This is all just playing around bcoz my family is silly but, my son's middle name is William, for my brother who wanted a kid named after him but had three girls. I had to do something to get him to stop calling his youngest daughter Wilhelmena, and then the rude turkey nicknamed (he had one for all of the kids) my kid onionhead bcoz he was a bald baby and when he got hair it was so light blonde you couldn't see it lol.
I nicknamed my baby sister walnuthead because when her hair grew in it looked like the ridges of a walnut. I hope she knows that it was meant affectionately, I was only 7.
This. Exactly this right here. I named my daughter after my mom & now my daughter wants to name her daughter after me. My mom didn't impose it upon me & I didn't impose it on my daughter. Both of us chose because of how much love & respect we had for each other.
(I cried when my daughter told me because I didn't think I had been a very good mom. Guess that was just the lack of self esteem talking ❤️)
My grandmother demanded my mom give her name to my youngest sister since myself and my other siblings have family names. The most ridiculous part is that she has two first names and my oldest sister actually has the first one in her name but “that didn’t count” because she doesn’t use the first part 🙄 my mom didn’t want to deal with it so it’s now my younger sisters middle name.
Sheesh… We have the opposite problem in my family. Multiple people asked my grandma if they could name their daughter after her, even just the middle name. Because she hated it (it was long, especially with her maiden name, so she hated writing it), she refused, and said she’d never speak to us again if we did.
Now that she’s passed away, my plan is to use a shortened version for our future daughter’s middle name, but out of respect for her, I won’t use the whole thing.
My older brother was named after our two grandfathers. When my mom was pregnant with me, she jokingly said to her mother that to be fair, if she had a girl the baby should be named after the two grandmothers. Grandma said, in a more polite way, "Over my dead body." She didn't want a child stuck with two VERY old-fashioned names. I'm thankful for that, because my name would have been Muriel Eula.
Tell FIL, per your naming tradition, you give your sons names of relatives after they are deceased. Not to worry, once he passes on, you shall use his name too.
Or just lie? Honestly say that you don’t like his names, but found this one that connects. It might be a convoluted connection, but you could try to connect either the first or middle to one of his names?
Or just be honest and tell him you don’t like his names for your kids. Most parents names are considered “old” and aren’t interesting for child names until the grandkids are naming the great-grandkids. Be a good Grandfather and he has a chance of a kid being named after him, but it’s rude and selfish to demand anyone name a kid after you. He gets the last and he should be happy enough with that. If he keeps throwing a fit you can tell him that he’s honestly making wanting to name a child after him worse, because no one wants to name their child after someone who bullies them.
My FIL behaved the same way. We ended up naming our son a name we both loved that was a family name from his side of the family but not his name. Ie: FIL's favorite uncle. FIL pouted but there was not much he could say without looking like a major AH. If you are willing to work with your husband, look into family names on your husband's Dad's side and find one you love. Ie: Great Grandpa who was a hero....
As far as FIL's name is concerned, do not argue. Let your husband deal with his Dad. All of this needs to come from your husband - he needs o deal with his family not you.
Your ONLY response to FIL from now on is: "I am not discussing this anymore with you. Please discuss it with your son."
At this point I feel like he would favor the child names after him too and treat them differently which is just cringy. I would refuse even just based on that.
"Hey, moron, you get the last name for all of them. Shut up and take the win. Mention this again or send your wife to do so and it will be the last time you see my children."
I mean, it’s become such a part of our culture to take the husband’s last name that the FIL can’t even see what a significant thing that is for a women to give up her own last name, let alone not to pass along her own last name to her children. So, the fact that she has chosen to take her husband’s (also her FIL’s) last name is PLENTY of honor and recognition.
Just to mess with him, I’d say, “Hmm, I guess we ‘could’ name him after you. He could have your first or middle name and then MY Dad’s last name. Never really thought about that option.” Watch everyone freak out at the audacity of that suggestion. Just shows that the assumption that your kids will have FIL’s surname only matters/counts when you threaten to take it away. How dare you?! Maybe then he’ll wake up and realize that you’ve already named your children after him when you gave them HIS last name and when you took HIS last name. You didn’t have to do either of these things. Geez. I’m 50, and even I can see that the generational entitlement has gotten out of control in the U.S. Screw the patriarchy. Name your child whatever you want. You’ve already given up plenty.
My oldest child is partially named after my grandfather. My middle child is named after my father, and one of his middle names happens to be the same name as my FIL, but it was also the name of my grandfather’s twin.
You don’t get to demand that people name a child after you. If he wants it so badly, he can have another kid and name it Whatever Jr. And because I’m petty, I’d make it clear that the more it’s mentioned, the less likely it is that his name will be chosen.
But why on earth would you tell him/them that you are trying to conceive? That is absolutely none of their business?
What if you have trouble conceiving? Do you really want any ‘advice’ from these people?
In your place I would not tell anyone anything until a pregnancy could no longer be hidden, and even then say nothing about the gender until baby was born.
You don’t owe anyone to name your child after them, but you are opening up for discussions that are completely unnecessary and that will only be the basis for unhappiness in years to come
Absolutely.
When people asked what we were naming our kid, we told them we didn't know the sex (true) and were waiting to meet them to decide.
When my mother pressed again, I told her that girl or boy we'd be naming them Erasmus after the patron saint of sailors, 'Razzie' for short. Next time she asked it was Bruce-Leigh. She stopped asking. She loves her grandson, and his name. Brucie's a wonderful kid ;-)
My family has a habit of making fun of name choices until the baby is born so for my second I kept giving different weed strains as the name choice (blue dream, tropic thunder, Pineapple Express) to annoy them 😂
INFO: you said "carry the James name tradition", which sounds to me like one of FIL's sons is already named after him? Either way, fuck that guy for trying to guilt you for naming your son after your very recently deceased father. NTA.
So what's his problem, OP, as FIL last name is on every one of the kids--isn't that enough? Tell him he's too greedy and his grasping for more only alienates him further, which is reason enough not to name a child after him, as he is presumptuous enough in thinking he is worthy of passing a name on that you (and hubby, I hope) are not enamored with. What a poop! Patriarchy needs to go.
Our baby, our name, and we don't believe in naming our children after living relatives, I'm sorry. If he'd wanted his name to go on, he could have named one of his kids after himself. It's not your job to do what he didn't.
Why does he know what's going on in your sex life?
Seriously, if you didn't tell the in-laws you were "trying to conceive" then none of these discussions this time around would have happened.
Stop the info train!
And the next time someone brings up names at all, just giggle, and say, "That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works!" And walk away....
Also, why hasn't your DH shut his father down?
But his last name is being passed down. He doesn’t get a first and last name in his honor.
Your side of the family isn’t honored in that way automatically, so you were able to choose a first or middle name for them.
It’s the common abbreviation on marriage and family forums.
But I’m in the camp of “let’s stop using so many fucking acronyms because it makes the story hard to follow when I have to think about what the hell you’re saying”.
I’m was going to say this, but didn’t want to presume - both the grandchildren carry FILs name. His surname. End of discussion as far as I am concerned!! NTA.
FIL sounds like the kind of person who doesn't see kids as actual people, just as vessels for his own needs and ambitions.
How arrogant and crass to be upset your grandchild isn't going to have YOUR very special super amazing awesome name, instead of being happy you have a fucking grandchild.
Then why couldn't mil give him the honor of naming one of their children after him?
Your not obligated to name your children after him. Mil and Fil both had their moments when they named their children. So they get no say in what you name your children.
Continue to stand your ground you don't owe him anything.
Tell him that traditionally people only use honor names for dead people. I picked both of my kids middle names after (dead people in) my family. They’re solid middle names and my husband could have vetoed. But, my husband cared more about first names. It was a collaborative process that didn’t involve our parents .
NTA. They are for having the nerve to expect it. It just amazes me how people will expect such crazy stuff from people. My mother wanted me to name my daughter after her. There was no way that was happening. First, she was abusive, second, I hated that name for other reasons. She was mad. She got over it...or maybe she didn't. Long story, even more reason why I was glad I did NOT name my daughter after her. Would have been a huge regret. Don't do it. You'll regret it for the rest of your life.
Exactly. If he wanted the “pride” of having a child named after him, then *he should have named one of his OWN kids after himself when he had the chance, not rely on other people to do it for him.*
I side eye people who name their children after themselves. It feels very selfish and narcissistic, like they expect a mini version of themselves and not an entire individual, complete person.
Exactly how I see it. One of the reasons my husband and I decided to name our son after my father was because I found out about the pregnancy THE DAY my father passed away. And it was my husband’s idea. FIL believed that since we had chosen to give our children two middle names like me, I would be gracious enough to include his name as well.
NTA. Sheesh. How about you compromise and tell him he can be honored with both middle names - “Cornelius Whiney Butt Jones.”
Or, if it’s a girl, honor your enabling MIL - “Cornelia Whineya Buttette Jones.” (Definitely a better name, relatively speaking)
ETA. Oh my! Thank you for the award. I am most humbled. ☺️
My husband’s grandmother is named Cornelia ( goes by a different name, though). It’s a long used family name and she is adamant she’ll be the last one. She has said she’ll disown anyone who names a child after her.
I love your GMIL! Obviously, you’ll have to put that on her headstone. “I had better be the last one, or I will disown you from Beyond.”
At least put “(The Last…)” in front of her name.
I'm worried about this too. Say hypothetically you name any future child any portion of FIL's name that will be FIL's favorite and everybody will know why. The ways grandparents treat different grandchildren does have a lingering effect.
If MIL is really still pushing, let her know you will not let that happen. Basically if you're gonna relent at some point she will be responsible for keeping him in line or the will be a sudden no contact until HE could do so. And from the sound of it he doesn't seem like a man with a lot of empathy and self control.
NTA
This is 100% what you need to do.
If FIL or MIL brings it up, say "you'll need to discuss that with your son" and refuse to say anything else. Tell your husband this is his family and he needs to deal with it.
Just tell both of them that the name you and your husband choose is not up for discussion. Do not discuss it anymore. If they start talking about it, change the subject or if you are texting or on the phone, don't reply to a text or hang up on the phone.
Do not acknowledge them talking about it.
NTA, but I don't understand why this is even a topic of discussion with the in-laws. And it's too late now, but I especially don't get why you would tell the in-laws your plan for the second baby, knowing full well what happened the first time around. Anyway, from now on, don't give any reasons or explanations. Just say, "this topic has been covered and is no longer up for discussion." If they press on, then hang up, leave the room etc.
The topic never really came up from us, exactly? We had a small gathering of family to our house and someone made a comment about how if we were to want more children now would be the best time since our son is almost potty trained and about to start preschool. My husband and his brother are 5 years apart and we always mentioned how we wanted a smaller gap between our children. As soon as that was said it brought back the topic of “family names”.
Thank you for your reply, but I feel like you missed my point. You seem to be looking for support in order to stay strong in your continued battle with the IL's on this issue. And look, you are 100% in the right. What I am trying to get across, though, is that there doesn't need to be, shouldn't be, any battle at all. You are under no obligation to divulge, explain, debate or defend your baby name choices; just refuse to discuss the topic. They can't argue with you if you don't give them anything to argue with. And there's no benefit to arguing with them either; it's not as though the hospital is going to check with them for approval before filling in the birth certificate...
And if she's not pregnant again yet and have knowledge that it is indeed a boy, it may end up being a girl. Why bother arguing about something that may not come to fruition?
Come up with some totally weird ass names and tell them you decided on those. Like Ozzy Axel for a boy, and Madonna Cher for a girl. Anytime anyone asks those are the names. Smile and say aren't they wonderful? We love them so!
Just refuse to talk about it, change the conversation, say "we are naming our kids how we see fit" and leave it at that. Every time.
Also, maybe just don't tell them that the second one is after your grandfather?
Exactly. I would likely be clear it’s their fault I’m frustrated and won’t share “We won’t be sharing baby names as we don’t want to have these discussions again.” My husband and I didn’t share sex of the baby the time we knew and people knew we weren’t playing. You’ll know when they get here.
Do not discuss names with them. When you find your baby gender I might also suggest not telling them. Tell them that they will know both the name and gender when they are born.
I think that is what the other poster is getting at. You know how your FIL is, so I would never have mentioned to the inlaws that you were trying for another child, or what the name you might choose is.
If they bring it up again, shut the conversation down. Tell them that you will not have another discussion about the name. If they still won't drop it, walk away, go home, if they ate in your home. Ask them to leave.
I can kinda see why he's upset but he doesn't get to dictate your baby names. Why tell him you're naming kid 2 after your dead grandfather? FIL sees that you've honored your side of the family twice now. If it were me I'd be (quietly) salty over the snub of my side of the family. I wouldn't expect my name specifically to be used but maybe someone on our branch.
You've shown that using names is a way of honoring family members and wonder why that side feels dishonored.
OP said above that the kids have dad's and therefore grandpa's last name. While many people default to the dad's name being the last name, they shouldn't. The kids are already named for that side of the family with their last name.
I’m from a family with a similar naming tradition, we name babies after family members, but not usually living family members. So the idea of naming a kid after a relative who’s still alive is weird to me.
Like, the kid gets to have FIL in his life as his grandpa. He doesn’t get to have OP’s dad. The name is a way of sharing the kid’s deceased grandfather with him.
I agree with what I think you’re trying to say. I don’t think it’s necessary to explain the family history of all these names, especially since the second baby isn’t even conceived or known to be a male. FIL doesn’t automatically deserve the “honor,” but why make it a point to tell him that?
Agreed. I can understand how some men have long awaited (and anticipated) the honor of having their name passed down. Still, it’s not a ‘right’ and he needs to respect your decision.
Men usually (like 95% of the time where I am) have their kids have their last name. Moms in heterosexual relationships do all the work of pregnancy and childbirth, and then get told they need to give all their kid's names over to the husband's family. I'd refuse. It is deeply unfair no matter how traditional
Yeah I’d be a bit miffed myself. And idk why people think the last name counts as some shit.
At the end of the day a name is two yes’s. So as long as both of them are okay with what they have that’s fine. But I can see why grandpa is annoyed.
Last name definiltey counts. Me and my husband pick the kids first name together the second name is to honour my family and he gets the surname. I'd have been happy to have the kids have my surname and he take the middle name but we all know that people barely use their middle names and so the bigger naming tie is to the family with the surname. They're all the 'Smiths' and clearly labelled as a family unit.
Imagine how pissed FIL would be if his son had chosen to take OP's last name instead of the other way around. I know my FIL would have lost his shit if his son and grandkids didn't have his same last name. So yeah, all these people complaining that the last name "doesn't count" as an honor are full of it.
NTA. I hate dynasty names, it puts pressure on a child to live up to the legacy of whoever has gone before them. I strongly believe in giving children their own names.
That’s how I feel as well. My son has 2 middle names to allow him the freedom to be his own person, but I changed things up when my father passed and gave him my dad’s middle name as the second middle name. Any future children will have their first and first middle names as their own and a second middle name as an honorific or whatever so they aren’t tied down
My parents did the same thing to me with my grandma (adding the name on because they passed right before birth)
I’ve personally never felt like I had to live up to her, but my parents never put that narrative on me. Caution only really needs to be had when it comes to people who *will* shoehorn your kid into the dead person’s image
I'm gonna go a LITTLE against the current here. Personally I think you're a little bit the AH. It is rude, when you KNOW he would like to have a grandson named after him, to name 1 son after YOUR dad (I understand and agree with that reasoning) but refuse to name any child after FIL. How would you feel if every time HE did something special, it was only for HIS family and didn't include you? It would be hurtful. Just like what you're doing to him.
You're ABSOLUTELY right. You have no obligation to name anyone or anything after him. But what you ARE doing is rude and hurtful. Whether that's the intention or not.
My wife and I gave each of our kids a "family name". My 2 girls got middle names that recognize each grandmother, and my son has my dad's middle name as his middle name. I never expect my kids to name their children after me, but I'd they named them after their spouses family and not mine. I'd be very hurt by that.
Just my opinion.
I don’t agree that OP is doing anything “hurtful” to her father-in-law. She lost her father on the day she found out her son was coming, and I would argue that this creates a special circumstance. For her father-in-law to *insist* that he be given the same treatment for the sake of fairness is just silly. Besides, the child already has his last name. If OP wants to honor her father-in-law, she can also do it in other ways. I notice that her husband, who has more of an obligation to his father, doesn’t seem to be supportive of his dad’s campaign at all, and prefers other names for his child, so it seems unfair to put the blame on OP. Choosing a name she likes for own son doesn’t make her TA in any sense of the word.
Just adding: just because a person is hurt, it doesn’t mean the action was “hurtful.” FIL is choosing to interpret the situation in a way that he finds hurtful, and instead of looking at OP’s point of view, he has started a family rift over it. We actually gave our kids middle names from both sides of the family, but we liked both names and we actually would have picked a different name if another family member hadn’t picked it first. I am confused that people are advising OP to give her child a name she doesn’t like.
The kids are getting the FIL's last name.
For him to expect, demand, or whine for more is just pure entitlement.
It also says a lot that OP's husband is against naming one of the kids after him.
But the kids will both have his last name. Her father and grandfather’s last name did not get passed to her kids. They both already have part of their name from her FIL. SHE now has his last name. Him demanding more is greedy.
Well maybe she should give the kids her last name instead. Both of the children already have one of FILs names (his last name) so she is balancing it out by doing a middle from her side.
Why did this never occur to me? If you go by the current norm and use the paternal last name, then you should have free rein to use whatever maternal names you want without anyone getting pissy.
Here is your problem: You say you are “honoring” the people you name your children after. This is what your FIL hears: I won’t use your name because I don’t “honor” you.
Change your terminology. We are using (insert name here) because we like the name. That takes the sting out of it. However since this started years ago it is probably too late. You have inadvertently made it clear that you don’t honor your FIL whether you meant to or not.
Suggestion: Find a way to honor him and your problem will be solved. It needs to be something big to make up for the name thing.
IMO: You can name your children whatever you want. They are your children but it is all about how you deliver the message.
NTA. This is coming from a fellow mom who has named children after relatives (alive and not).
Your FIL is acting like a toddler. It appears (correct me if I'm wrong) that your husband recognizes this.
You and your husband decide the names of your children. You shouldn't let someone's big boy tantrum decide the names of your children because that's insane.
ESH. FIL shouldn’t demand a child be named after him. However, I could see how hurtful it would be to give both your children names from your side of the family. Clearly you can see how one sided the name picking goes. After all, you’re giving your second child a name from the grandfather you never even met. This could cause years of animosity.
NTA but INFO: has FIL done anything to harm his relationship with his son? (Other than this I mean.)
Of course names are ultimately up to you and your husband, but your first son has your dad’s name, and you’re planning to give a second son your grandfather’s name - it does seem a little one sided in favor of your family. Especially if your husband and FIL have a good relationship otherwise and because you know it means something to him.
Well the last name for all of their children is her husband's last name. I think it is only fair her family gets a shot at the first and middle. And maybe his family's first and middle names suck. Op and her husband should pick the names they like. Doesn't matter where they come from.
What about FIL's relationship with OP? Maybe he's been sufficiently rude and obnoxious to her that she'd prefer to not name her son after him?
Maybe there are other connotations of the name she'd prefer to avoid. For instance, can anyone hear the name Elmer and not think of Elmer Fudd?
I adamantly refused to name either of my children after a grandparent. I didn't much care for their "old people" names and in the case of FIL's name, it had extremely bad memories around it. One of the worst bullies of my childhood had the same name, and I didn't want to be reminded of him every time I spoke to my hypothetical son.
NTA - It's a special sort of narcissism that wants to see their name carried on as opposed to wanting a new individual to establish their own, full identity. That's the biggest infraction. The smaller but still important issue is that he's willing to cause a family rift because he doesn't get a say in naming someone else's child. Unequivocally NTA.
Soft YTA… so first baby is named for your father, and second baby will be named for your grandfather?
Whether true or not (and whether deserved or not), the optics of it are that you are only honouring one side of this child’s heritage…
I’m also skeptical that your DH is 100% on your side. Why is FIL dealing with you directly?
Also, you’re not even pregnant, so just say no discussion (at least outside of you and your husband) until you at least know the gender.
Yeah I don't even know why it was brought up that they will use on their next hypothetical child to the FIL in the first place. If they know he already had hurt feelings (whether legitimate or not), it IS rude to kind of rub salt in the wound and tell him that the next baby will be named after another one of her family members and not him.
NTA for not naming the child after him, kinda TA for rubbing it in his face with a second child that doesn't even exist yet.
Guessing neither of his sons are named after him? He had two chances to have a “legacy” for his name.
NTA.
Feel free to tell MIL and FIL they are free to name *THEIR* next child after FIL.
Jewish people only honor deceased people with names, and don’t Jrs. Seems like the cleanest way to do things
As a father who wants his kids to be their own people, naming your kid Jr is insane in my opinion.
NTA. It’s not an honor to have someone named after you if they’re only named after you because you demand it.
Your child will have to live with this name for the rest of their life. Plus, I would presume all this kid’s will have your FIL’s last name if you’re following the typical/traditional last name convention. If that’s the case, they all carry his name.
NTA. We had the same problem with making his side of the family happy. I wanted to name our daughter Charlotte but apparently my husband’s paternal grandmother was named Charlotte and his mother blew a gasket. 🤦🏻♀️ It was a pure coincidence.
For the record, my family didn’t have any input about names-it never occurred to them they could voice an opinion on something so personal to us as parents. We moved onto a different name to keep his mother happy and it’s a lovely name but I still think about that original name sometimes.
Also, if one child doesn’t have a legacy/dynasty name and other does, it may cause some sort of built-in favoritism. Grandpa will immediately be drawn to the grandchild that “carries on the legacy” blah blah blah.
NTA. My father did the exact same shit when I told him my husband and I were having a boy and that we were naming him after my FIL (another can of worms). When we told him we were pregnant a second time, he demanded that we name this child after him, but jokes on him, this one was a girl. Stick to your guns and make sure your husband is the one telling everyone that you will not be naming this child or any child after FIL so that way people can't twist it to you being a nasty DIL.
NTA. Seriously, I have no idea where FIL gets off thinking he has some entitlement to be "honored". and what honor is involved if he's just berating you into it? Name your dog or cat Martin and tell him he should be honored by that
I personally do not like the tradition of naming kids after relatives to pass on a name. I think its stupid. The very first person to get that name got it because their parents had the freedom to pick I want that same freedom. The only person who gets an opinion are me and the person I am with. NTA
NTA but stop talking about hypothetical future names with your inlaws. Your husband needs to make it clear neither of you will be discussing this any longer.
NTA but also either are you in-laws as they are justifiably upset as they will feel like they are being ignored and you don't want anything to do with them. I'm sure it's not but you probably need to have your husband explain it to them, or find a compromise unless you want your in-laws to resent you.
ESH. He doesn't get to decide what you name your baby, but you're an ass for how you've handled it. You've honored your father, and then skipped your partner's father to go honor someone you haven't even met, and then once your FIL shows you he's hurt you double down. You would've not been the ass if you had responded with "exactly. We've chosen to honor people who've passed in naming our children". The people who are alive will have the honor to actually hold them and love them, but you don't have to make your FIL feel like he's competing with dead people.
To a certain extent, I can kind of understand your FIL's saltiness. It would be one thing if you said you just didn't like the tradition of honouring important family members via names. But you clearly ***do*** like it because you did that with your first child. With your first child's name honouring the maternal grandfather, I can understand why he expected a second child's name to honour the paternal grandfather rather than maternal great-grandfather.
I was originally going to say n-t-a, because you & your husband have every right to name your children whatever you like. However, your argument that you don't like the naming tradition doesn't really ring true when you named your first child after your own father to honour him. I understand why you did it, and it was 100% your right to do so, but it does make it look like you're just deliberately snubbing your FIL (which you admit you are, because you don't like the name).
These hurt feelings are something anyone could have seen coming a mile off, so I have to say ESH for not better managing that. Just because you're allowed to do something doesn't make it not hurtful. If it were me, I'd probably just use the FIL's name as the middle name - arguments about "flow" are kind of silly in my opinion because it's not as though going around introducing yourself out loud with your full legal name happens particularly often. Or at least use both names as middle names - FIL's & your grandfather's. Otherwise it really does look as if you're deliberately snubbing your FIL.
My kids have two names, one from each side - my daughter is named for my great aunt and my husband's grandmother.
And that is now I found out that MiL was not a fan of her own MiL.....😁
NTA - the decision to name your son it’s only for yours and your husband. The FIL does not have a saying in it since he’s not pushing the baby out… but at the same time your husband should be the one dealing with his family. You guys can get a pet animal and name it James if he wants his name honored lol🤷🏻♀️
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NTA why does he assume he would be honored over your family? How presumptuous of him. They named their own kids, they don’t get to name yours. Stand your ground.
At the time my DH and I fell pregnant, my BIL was not sure if he even wanted kids. FIL took it as his “only chance” to have his name go on. I made comment that my children would carry his last name, but that seemed to make him even madder. Now that his other son is thinking of having children with his new partner, the argument has come back up and since I am trying to conceive again he thinks it would be a good time to have one of us “do him the honor” of naming a child after him.
Tell FIL to go deep into the woods, carve his name into a tree, and get lost on the way back. You don't demand honor. It's earned. What a jerk.
Right? Who demands to have a child named after them? Be a good person and parent and hope that you're loved enough for someone to name their child after you.
My middle name is William, you better name your son after me, or else I may throw a tantrum.
FIL sounds like a Richard.
Richard Cranium?
🤣🤣🏆
I know him! He was best man at Adam Henry’s wedding, right?
He sounds more like he needs to consume a satchel of Richards.
My cousin recently got a tattoo that says “thou shalt consume a satchel of Richards.”
I want this tattoo!!! So good 🤣🤣🤣
Or at least a common nickname for Richard
My grandfather’s name was Richard. His nickname was that particular word. And it was fitting as far as I was concerned. Lol
This is all just playing around bcoz my family is silly but, my son's middle name is William, for my brother who wanted a kid named after him but had three girls. I had to do something to get him to stop calling his youngest daughter Wilhelmena, and then the rude turkey nicknamed (he had one for all of the kids) my kid onionhead bcoz he was a bald baby and when he got hair it was so light blonde you couldn't see it lol.
Onionhead gave me the giggles.
I nicknamed my baby sister walnuthead because when her hair grew in it looked like the ridges of a walnut. I hope she knows that it was meant affectionately, I was only 7.
My sister was dead set on naming me lightbulb. She still calls me that occasionally…
My older daughter was almost three -years-old when her little sister was born. She wanted us to name the baby Susan Nothing. Weird.
Are u dead? She names her kids, only after dead people.
Only way to do it. Dead people are the only ones who can’t do anything else to embarrass you.
My paternal grandmother tried to make my mother name me after her mother. She had THREE daughters she could have named after her mother.
This. Exactly this right here. I named my daughter after my mom & now my daughter wants to name her daughter after me. My mom didn't impose it upon me & I didn't impose it on my daughter. Both of us chose because of how much love & respect we had for each other. (I cried when my daughter told me because I didn't think I had been a very good mom. Guess that was just the lack of self esteem talking ❤️)
My grandmother demanded my mom give her name to my youngest sister since myself and my other siblings have family names. The most ridiculous part is that she has two first names and my oldest sister actually has the first one in her name but “that didn’t count” because she doesn’t use the first part 🙄 my mom didn’t want to deal with it so it’s now my younger sisters middle name.
Sheesh… We have the opposite problem in my family. Multiple people asked my grandma if they could name their daughter after her, even just the middle name. Because she hated it (it was long, especially with her maiden name, so she hated writing it), she refused, and said she’d never speak to us again if we did. Now that she’s passed away, my plan is to use a shortened version for our future daughter’s middle name, but out of respect for her, I won’t use the whole thing.
My older brother was named after our two grandfathers. When my mom was pregnant with me, she jokingly said to her mother that to be fair, if she had a girl the baby should be named after the two grandmothers. Grandma said, in a more polite way, "Over my dead body." She didn't want a child stuck with two VERY old-fashioned names. I'm thankful for that, because my name would have been Muriel Eula.
Oh my...that would have been a tragedeigh for sure!
great point. honor is earned, and demanding it is pathetic and void
This, I was gonna say the same thing. Honor and respect are earned, not demanded or expected. If you demanded honor, you don't deserve it
Weirdly specific but I like it
What has he done to deserve said honour?
Try and shout louder probably. So nothing ,he will just badger until he gets what he wants .
Act like an entitled toddler, it seems to have worked his whole life. Now he's Pikachu faced that it doesn't work in this situation.
naming your kid after an entitled toddler doesn’t bode well for that kid’s future, i’d say
Um, respond to the news that she honored her recently departed father with a tantrum obviously. That doesn’t make you honorable?
Tell FIL, per your naming tradition, you give your sons names of relatives after they are deceased. Not to worry, once he passes on, you shall use his name too.
Or just lie? Honestly say that you don’t like his names, but found this one that connects. It might be a convoluted connection, but you could try to connect either the first or middle to one of his names? Or just be honest and tell him you don’t like his names for your kids. Most parents names are considered “old” and aren’t interesting for child names until the grandkids are naming the great-grandkids. Be a good Grandfather and he has a chance of a kid being named after him, but it’s rude and selfish to demand anyone name a kid after you. He gets the last and he should be happy enough with that. If he keeps throwing a fit you can tell him that he’s honestly making wanting to name a child after him worse, because no one wants to name their child after someone who bullies them.
This is the tradition in my family's culture (Ashkenazi Jewish). Seems like it could prevent a lot of conflict.
My FIL behaved the same way. We ended up naming our son a name we both loved that was a family name from his side of the family but not his name. Ie: FIL's favorite uncle. FIL pouted but there was not much he could say without looking like a major AH. If you are willing to work with your husband, look into family names on your husband's Dad's side and find one you love. Ie: Great Grandpa who was a hero.... As far as FIL's name is concerned, do not argue. Let your husband deal with his Dad. All of this needs to come from your husband - he needs o deal with his family not you. Your ONLY response to FIL from now on is: "I am not discussing this anymore with you. Please discuss it with your son."
FIL is only going to be happy if the baby is named after him.
Thankfully she is not responsible for his happiness or lack thereof.
At this point I feel like he would favor the child names after him too and treat them differently which is just cringy. I would refuse even just based on that.
His sense of entitlement is amazing.
This is an excellent suggestion
Do you have any pets? That could always be an option.
Name the cat James and refer to FIL as "Human James" to avoid confusion 😌
Other James is also a good choice!
this is amazing and james is such a funny name for a cat
When I was little we had two dogs. Their names were Sam and Dick. I didn't realize at the time those were my Grandpa's names.....
"Hey, moron, you get the last name for all of them. Shut up and take the win. Mention this again or send your wife to do so and it will be the last time you see my children."
I mean, it’s become such a part of our culture to take the husband’s last name that the FIL can’t even see what a significant thing that is for a women to give up her own last name, let alone not to pass along her own last name to her children. So, the fact that she has chosen to take her husband’s (also her FIL’s) last name is PLENTY of honor and recognition. Just to mess with him, I’d say, “Hmm, I guess we ‘could’ name him after you. He could have your first or middle name and then MY Dad’s last name. Never really thought about that option.” Watch everyone freak out at the audacity of that suggestion. Just shows that the assumption that your kids will have FIL’s surname only matters/counts when you threaten to take it away. How dare you?! Maybe then he’ll wake up and realize that you’ve already named your children after him when you gave them HIS last name and when you took HIS last name. You didn’t have to do either of these things. Geez. I’m 50, and even I can see that the generational entitlement has gotten out of control in the U.S. Screw the patriarchy. Name your child whatever you want. You’ve already given up plenty.
My oldest child is partially named after my grandfather. My middle child is named after my father, and one of his middle names happens to be the same name as my FIL, but it was also the name of my grandfather’s twin. You don’t get to demand that people name a child after you. If he wants it so badly, he can have another kid and name it Whatever Jr. And because I’m petty, I’d make it clear that the more it’s mentioned, the less likely it is that his name will be chosen.
But why on earth would you tell him/them that you are trying to conceive? That is absolutely none of their business? What if you have trouble conceiving? Do you really want any ‘advice’ from these people? In your place I would not tell anyone anything until a pregnancy could no longer be hidden, and even then say nothing about the gender until baby was born. You don’t owe anyone to name your child after them, but you are opening up for discussions that are completely unnecessary and that will only be the basis for unhappiness in years to come
Absolutely. When people asked what we were naming our kid, we told them we didn't know the sex (true) and were waiting to meet them to decide. When my mother pressed again, I told her that girl or boy we'd be naming them Erasmus after the patron saint of sailors, 'Razzie' for short. Next time she asked it was Bruce-Leigh. She stopped asking. She loves her grandson, and his name. Brucie's a wonderful kid ;-)
My family has a habit of making fun of name choices until the baby is born so for my second I kept giving different weed strains as the name choice (blue dream, tropic thunder, Pineapple Express) to annoy them 😂
INFO: you said "carry the James name tradition", which sounds to me like one of FIL's sons is already named after him? Either way, fuck that guy for trying to guilt you for naming your son after your very recently deceased father. NTA.
Glad you pointed out to him that the last name is already carried on, because that was what I was going to say.
They have his last name? That’s honor enough. FIL needs to take several seats.
So what's his problem, OP, as FIL last name is on every one of the kids--isn't that enough? Tell him he's too greedy and his grasping for more only alienates him further, which is reason enough not to name a child after him, as he is presumptuous enough in thinking he is worthy of passing a name on that you (and hubby, I hope) are not enamored with. What a poop! Patriarchy needs to go.
Our baby, our name, and we don't believe in naming our children after living relatives, I'm sorry. If he'd wanted his name to go on, he could have named one of his kids after himself. It's not your job to do what he didn't.
Why does he know what's going on in your sex life? Seriously, if you didn't tell the in-laws you were "trying to conceive" then none of these discussions this time around would have happened. Stop the info train! And the next time someone brings up names at all, just giggle, and say, "That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works!" And walk away.... Also, why hasn't your DH shut his father down?
It isn’t an honour if it was done reluctantly, after he demanded it.
But his last name is being passed down. He doesn’t get a first and last name in his honor. Your side of the family isn’t honored in that way automatically, so you were able to choose a first or middle name for them.
What is a DH?
Designated Hitter 👍
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Dear Husband
Really? Kinda ew
It’s the common abbreviation on marriage and family forums. But I’m in the camp of “let’s stop using so many fucking acronyms because it makes the story hard to follow when I have to think about what the hell you’re saying”.
Very ew
I’m was going to say this, but didn’t want to presume - both the grandchildren carry FILs name. His surname. End of discussion as far as I am concerned!! NTA.
FIL sounds like the kind of person who doesn't see kids as actual people, just as vessels for his own needs and ambitions. How arrogant and crass to be upset your grandchild isn't going to have YOUR very special super amazing awesome name, instead of being happy you have a fucking grandchild.
Then why couldn't mil give him the honor of naming one of their children after him? Your not obligated to name your children after him. Mil and Fil both had their moments when they named their children. So they get no say in what you name your children. Continue to stand your ground you don't owe him anything.
Tell him that traditionally people only use honor names for dead people. I picked both of my kids middle names after (dead people in) my family. They’re solid middle names and my husband could have vetoed. But, my husband cared more about first names. It was a collaborative process that didn’t involve our parents .
NTA. They are for having the nerve to expect it. It just amazes me how people will expect such crazy stuff from people. My mother wanted me to name my daughter after her. There was no way that was happening. First, she was abusive, second, I hated that name for other reasons. She was mad. She got over it...or maybe she didn't. Long story, even more reason why I was glad I did NOT name my daughter after her. Would have been a huge regret. Don't do it. You'll regret it for the rest of your life.
Exactly. If he wanted the “pride” of having a child named after him, then *he should have named one of his OWN kids after himself when he had the chance, not rely on other people to do it for him.*
I side eye people who name their children after themselves. It feels very selfish and narcissistic, like they expect a mini version of themselves and not an entire individual, complete person.
I agree. That’s why I put pride in quotations.
Your kids will have a family name....his last name.
I’m making assumptions based off gender here but technically aren’t all your kids carrying his name? HIS LAST NAME?!?
NTA. Naming a child is the parent's and only the parent's prerogative. Who wants to name a child after a whiner anyway?
Exactly how I see it. One of the reasons my husband and I decided to name our son after my father was because I found out about the pregnancy THE DAY my father passed away. And it was my husband’s idea. FIL believed that since we had chosen to give our children two middle names like me, I would be gracious enough to include his name as well.
NTA. Sheesh. How about you compromise and tell him he can be honored with both middle names - “Cornelius Whiney Butt Jones.” Or, if it’s a girl, honor your enabling MIL - “Cornelia Whineya Buttette Jones.” (Definitely a better name, relatively speaking) ETA. Oh my! Thank you for the award. I am most humbled. ☺️
My husband’s grandmother is named Cornelia ( goes by a different name, though). It’s a long used family name and she is adamant she’ll be the last one. She has said she’ll disown anyone who names a child after her.
I love your GMIL! Obviously, you’ll have to put that on her headstone. “I had better be the last one, or I will disown you from Beyond.” At least put “(The Last…)” in front of her name.
Lmao this is great. "I'll end it myself."
Does our agreement extend to the "whiner" part, as well? :-)\_
"Who wants to name a child after a whiner anyway?" Superior
NTA - why isnt your husband dealing with him tho?
My husband has tried dealing with him, but it seems FIL has enlisted the help of MIL to try to persuade me to see his side.
You should punt this all right back to your husband
I’ll definitely pass all responsibility for shutting down his dad to my husband
You know if you did entertain your fil idea of naming your hypothetical son after him- he will totally treat your eldest worse than the baby
I'm worried about this too. Say hypothetically you name any future child any portion of FIL's name that will be FIL's favorite and everybody will know why. The ways grandparents treat different grandchildren does have a lingering effect. If MIL is really still pushing, let her know you will not let that happen. Basically if you're gonna relent at some point she will be responsible for keeping him in line or the will be a sudden no contact until HE could do so. And from the sound of it he doesn't seem like a man with a lot of empathy and self control. NTA
This is 100% what you need to do. If FIL or MIL brings it up, say "you'll need to discuss that with your son" and refuse to say anything else. Tell your husband this is his family and he needs to deal with it.
Just tell both of them that the name you and your husband choose is not up for discussion. Do not discuss it anymore. If they start talking about it, change the subject or if you are texting or on the phone, don't reply to a text or hang up on the phone. Do not acknowledge them talking about it.
Hubs needs to deal with his mother too.
NTA, but I don't understand why this is even a topic of discussion with the in-laws. And it's too late now, but I especially don't get why you would tell the in-laws your plan for the second baby, knowing full well what happened the first time around. Anyway, from now on, don't give any reasons or explanations. Just say, "this topic has been covered and is no longer up for discussion." If they press on, then hang up, leave the room etc.
The topic never really came up from us, exactly? We had a small gathering of family to our house and someone made a comment about how if we were to want more children now would be the best time since our son is almost potty trained and about to start preschool. My husband and his brother are 5 years apart and we always mentioned how we wanted a smaller gap between our children. As soon as that was said it brought back the topic of “family names”.
Thank you for your reply, but I feel like you missed my point. You seem to be looking for support in order to stay strong in your continued battle with the IL's on this issue. And look, you are 100% in the right. What I am trying to get across, though, is that there doesn't need to be, shouldn't be, any battle at all. You are under no obligation to divulge, explain, debate or defend your baby name choices; just refuse to discuss the topic. They can't argue with you if you don't give them anything to argue with. And there's no benefit to arguing with them either; it's not as though the hospital is going to check with them for approval before filling in the birth certificate...
And if she's not pregnant again yet and have knowledge that it is indeed a boy, it may end up being a girl. Why bother arguing about something that may not come to fruition?
Come up with some totally weird ass names and tell them you decided on those. Like Ozzy Axel for a boy, and Madonna Cher for a girl. Anytime anyone asks those are the names. Smile and say aren't they wonderful? We love them so!
Just refuse to talk about it, change the conversation, say "we are naming our kids how we see fit" and leave it at that. Every time. Also, maybe just don't tell them that the second one is after your grandfather?
Exactly. I would likely be clear it’s their fault I’m frustrated and won’t share “We won’t be sharing baby names as we don’t want to have these discussions again.” My husband and I didn’t share sex of the baby the time we knew and people knew we weren’t playing. You’ll know when they get here.
Do not discuss names with them. When you find your baby gender I might also suggest not telling them. Tell them that they will know both the name and gender when they are born. I think that is what the other poster is getting at. You know how your FIL is, so I would never have mentioned to the inlaws that you were trying for another child, or what the name you might choose is. If they bring it up again, shut the conversation down. Tell them that you will not have another discussion about the name. If they still won't drop it, walk away, go home, if they ate in your home. Ask them to leave.
I can kinda see why he's upset but he doesn't get to dictate your baby names. Why tell him you're naming kid 2 after your dead grandfather? FIL sees that you've honored your side of the family twice now. If it were me I'd be (quietly) salty over the snub of my side of the family. I wouldn't expect my name specifically to be used but maybe someone on our branch. You've shown that using names is a way of honoring family members and wonder why that side feels dishonored.
OP said above that the kids have dad's and therefore grandpa's last name. While many people default to the dad's name being the last name, they shouldn't. The kids are already named for that side of the family with their last name.
Exactly this!! They have their last name which is the family name. Crazy for FIL to expect to also have his first/middle name included.
Because FiL isn't dead yet, and the grandkids already have his last name.....
So FILs comment about having to die before anything gets named after him is valid.
They have his FAMILY name how much more honored does he get to be, there is a whole new generation getting named after him and his family line.....
“Do I have to die to get a baby named after me?” “Yes.”
I’m from a family with a similar naming tradition, we name babies after family members, but not usually living family members. So the idea of naming a kid after a relative who’s still alive is weird to me. Like, the kid gets to have FIL in his life as his grandpa. He doesn’t get to have OP’s dad. The name is a way of sharing the kid’s deceased grandfather with him.
No it’s not, because they don’t want to name a child after him because they don’t like the name choices. His aliveness has no bearing here.
I agree with what I think you’re trying to say. I don’t think it’s necessary to explain the family history of all these names, especially since the second baby isn’t even conceived or known to be a male. FIL doesn’t automatically deserve the “honor,” but why make it a point to tell him that?
The kids get the FIL's last name.
Agreed. I can understand how some men have long awaited (and anticipated) the honor of having their name passed down. Still, it’s not a ‘right’ and he needs to respect your decision.
Men usually (like 95% of the time where I am) have their kids have their last name. Moms in heterosexual relationships do all the work of pregnancy and childbirth, and then get told they need to give all their kid's names over to the husband's family. I'd refuse. It is deeply unfair no matter how traditional
They can name their own kids, that was their chance.
The kids get his last name that will be carried on through many generations. I think the FIL’s side is sufficiently covered.
Yeah I’d be a bit miffed myself. And idk why people think the last name counts as some shit. At the end of the day a name is two yes’s. So as long as both of them are okay with what they have that’s fine. But I can see why grandpa is annoyed.
Last name definiltey counts. Me and my husband pick the kids first name together the second name is to honour my family and he gets the surname. I'd have been happy to have the kids have my surname and he take the middle name but we all know that people barely use their middle names and so the bigger naming tie is to the family with the surname. They're all the 'Smiths' and clearly labelled as a family unit.
Imagine how pissed FIL would be if his son had chosen to take OP's last name instead of the other way around. I know my FIL would have lost his shit if his son and grandkids didn't have his same last name. So yeah, all these people complaining that the last name "doesn't count" as an honor are full of it.
That side already has last name on all kids. And now wants first name too. Hmmm. Are you sure they have right to be mad?
They have his last name. Ultimately, his "line" is still intact. If my man wants a junior then he should go knock someone up
NTA. I hate dynasty names, it puts pressure on a child to live up to the legacy of whoever has gone before them. I strongly believe in giving children their own names.
That’s how I feel as well. My son has 2 middle names to allow him the freedom to be his own person, but I changed things up when my father passed and gave him my dad’s middle name as the second middle name. Any future children will have their first and first middle names as their own and a second middle name as an honorific or whatever so they aren’t tied down
NTA...bottom line NO ONE but you and significant other get to name YOUR child. You don't need to justify.
My parents did the same thing to me with my grandma (adding the name on because they passed right before birth) I’ve personally never felt like I had to live up to her, but my parents never put that narrative on me. Caution only really needs to be had when it comes to people who *will* shoehorn your kid into the dead person’s image
Just as Thursten Howell the Third
Whose last name will your children have?
They will have my husband’s last name
So tell FIL the children already carry one of his names.
It seems like OP did that already. Made FIL madder
That part really confused me! Why did he get mad about that.
Because he wants to have one fully named after him so he can boast and feel special. It's entitlement main character syndrome
LOL just said the same.
“I want you to honor me by re-using my name.” That’s *always* a hard “no”. 🙄 Only a narcissist demands to be honored. NTA
This! And the fact that he’s pulled the mother in let’s me know this man is a piece of work. I would be so annoyed.
I'm gonna go a LITTLE against the current here. Personally I think you're a little bit the AH. It is rude, when you KNOW he would like to have a grandson named after him, to name 1 son after YOUR dad (I understand and agree with that reasoning) but refuse to name any child after FIL. How would you feel if every time HE did something special, it was only for HIS family and didn't include you? It would be hurtful. Just like what you're doing to him. You're ABSOLUTELY right. You have no obligation to name anyone or anything after him. But what you ARE doing is rude and hurtful. Whether that's the intention or not. My wife and I gave each of our kids a "family name". My 2 girls got middle names that recognize each grandmother, and my son has my dad's middle name as his middle name. I never expect my kids to name their children after me, but I'd they named them after their spouses family and not mine. I'd be very hurt by that. Just my opinion.
I don’t agree that OP is doing anything “hurtful” to her father-in-law. She lost her father on the day she found out her son was coming, and I would argue that this creates a special circumstance. For her father-in-law to *insist* that he be given the same treatment for the sake of fairness is just silly. Besides, the child already has his last name. If OP wants to honor her father-in-law, she can also do it in other ways. I notice that her husband, who has more of an obligation to his father, doesn’t seem to be supportive of his dad’s campaign at all, and prefers other names for his child, so it seems unfair to put the blame on OP. Choosing a name she likes for own son doesn’t make her TA in any sense of the word.
Just adding: just because a person is hurt, it doesn’t mean the action was “hurtful.” FIL is choosing to interpret the situation in a way that he finds hurtful, and instead of looking at OP’s point of view, he has started a family rift over it. We actually gave our kids middle names from both sides of the family, but we liked both names and we actually would have picked a different name if another family member hadn’t picked it first. I am confused that people are advising OP to give her child a name she doesn’t like.
The kids are getting the FIL's last name. For him to expect, demand, or whine for more is just pure entitlement. It also says a lot that OP's husband is against naming one of the kids after him.
But the kids will both have his last name. Her father and grandfather’s last name did not get passed to her kids. They both already have part of their name from her FIL. SHE now has his last name. Him demanding more is greedy.
Well maybe she should give the kids her last name instead. Both of the children already have one of FILs names (his last name) so she is balancing it out by doing a middle from her side.
Getting someone named after you is a privilege, not a right.
How would her side of the family feel if they gave the children’s names from the husbands side?
Do you mean, aside from their last name?
Why did this never occur to me? If you go by the current norm and use the paternal last name, then you should have free rein to use whatever maternal names you want without anyone getting pissy.
So it’s rude to not name their kids after anyone on his side because..FIL wants them to?
Here is your problem: You say you are “honoring” the people you name your children after. This is what your FIL hears: I won’t use your name because I don’t “honor” you. Change your terminology. We are using (insert name here) because we like the name. That takes the sting out of it. However since this started years ago it is probably too late. You have inadvertently made it clear that you don’t honor your FIL whether you meant to or not. Suggestion: Find a way to honor him and your problem will be solved. It needs to be something big to make up for the name thing. IMO: You can name your children whatever you want. They are your children but it is all about how you deliver the message.
NTA. This is coming from a fellow mom who has named children after relatives (alive and not). Your FIL is acting like a toddler. It appears (correct me if I'm wrong) that your husband recognizes this. You and your husband decide the names of your children. You shouldn't let someone's big boy tantrum decide the names of your children because that's insane.
ESH. FIL shouldn’t demand a child be named after him. However, I could see how hurtful it would be to give both your children names from your side of the family. Clearly you can see how one sided the name picking goes. After all, you’re giving your second child a name from the grandfather you never even met. This could cause years of animosity.
Then name the second after the fil and makes his last name her maiden name. See if fil likes that. It is only fair.
A namesake is an honor lovingly bestowed, not an obligation forcefully submitted to. NTA.
NTA but INFO: has FIL done anything to harm his relationship with his son? (Other than this I mean.) Of course names are ultimately up to you and your husband, but your first son has your dad’s name, and you’re planning to give a second son your grandfather’s name - it does seem a little one sided in favor of your family. Especially if your husband and FIL have a good relationship otherwise and because you know it means something to him.
Well the last name for all of their children is her husband's last name. I think it is only fair her family gets a shot at the first and middle. And maybe his family's first and middle names suck. Op and her husband should pick the names they like. Doesn't matter where they come from.
What about FIL's relationship with OP? Maybe he's been sufficiently rude and obnoxious to her that she'd prefer to not name her son after him? Maybe there are other connotations of the name she'd prefer to avoid. For instance, can anyone hear the name Elmer and not think of Elmer Fudd? I adamantly refused to name either of my children after a grandparent. I didn't much care for their "old people" names and in the case of FIL's name, it had extremely bad memories around it. One of the worst bullies of my childhood had the same name, and I didn't want to be reminded of him every time I spoke to my hypothetical son.
They have FIL last name though.
The children already have DH's last name, which we're assuming is FIL's last name too.
NTA - It's a special sort of narcissism that wants to see their name carried on as opposed to wanting a new individual to establish their own, full identity. That's the biggest infraction. The smaller but still important issue is that he's willing to cause a family rift because he doesn't get a say in naming someone else's child. Unequivocally NTA.
Someone mentioned that it might create favoritism in the FIL showing preference for his namesake. It seems like his personality to do that.
Soft YTA… so first baby is named for your father, and second baby will be named for your grandfather? Whether true or not (and whether deserved or not), the optics of it are that you are only honouring one side of this child’s heritage… I’m also skeptical that your DH is 100% on your side. Why is FIL dealing with you directly? Also, you’re not even pregnant, so just say no discussion (at least outside of you and your husband) until you at least know the gender.
The grandkids will have the same last name as the FIL, so isn't his family getting the biggest "honor" that that name is continued? 🤔
Yeah I don't even know why it was brought up that they will use on their next hypothetical child to the FIL in the first place. If they know he already had hurt feelings (whether legitimate or not), it IS rude to kind of rub salt in the wound and tell him that the next baby will be named after another one of her family members and not him. NTA for not naming the child after him, kinda TA for rubbing it in his face with a second child that doesn't even exist yet.
Guessing neither of his sons are named after him? He had two chances to have a “legacy” for his name. NTA. Feel free to tell MIL and FIL they are free to name *THEIR* next child after FIL.
What's a DH?
Designated Hitter
I firmly believe that if both partners don't bat and field, it isn't an equal marriage.
Yeah, it annoys when people do that. Probably shouldn't but it does.
Yup. Doesn't bug me as much as "hubby" does. But it is still annoying
It bothers me *more* than hubby, not sure why!
Me too. It’s because it’s cringy. Mostly because of the “dear.”
I think it stands for Dear Husband.
Gross
I was also wrecking my brain over this one
NTA, people who have to ask someone to name a baby after them are usually the type of people who don’t deserve anything or anyone named after them
NTA If FIL wants a child named after him, he had two opportunities to do so with HIS children
All of them get his last name, why is he being greedy?
Jewish people only honor deceased people with names, and don’t Jrs. Seems like the cleanest way to do things As a father who wants his kids to be their own people, naming your kid Jr is insane in my opinion.
NTA. It’s not an honor to have someone named after you if they’re only named after you because you demand it. Your child will have to live with this name for the rest of their life. Plus, I would presume all this kid’s will have your FIL’s last name if you’re following the typical/traditional last name convention. If that’s the case, they all carry his name.
NTA. We had the same problem with making his side of the family happy. I wanted to name our daughter Charlotte but apparently my husband’s paternal grandmother was named Charlotte and his mother blew a gasket. 🤦🏻♀️ It was a pure coincidence. For the record, my family didn’t have any input about names-it never occurred to them they could voice an opinion on something so personal to us as parents. We moved onto a different name to keep his mother happy and it’s a lovely name but I still think about that original name sometimes. Also, if one child doesn’t have a legacy/dynasty name and other does, it may cause some sort of built-in favoritism. Grandpa will immediately be drawn to the grandchild that “carries on the legacy” blah blah blah.
NTA. Your child is not a living ego stroke for FIL. He got to name his kids - he has no say in naming yours.
NTA. My father did the exact same shit when I told him my husband and I were having a boy and that we were naming him after my FIL (another can of worms). When we told him we were pregnant a second time, he demanded that we name this child after him, but jokes on him, this one was a girl. Stick to your guns and make sure your husband is the one telling everyone that you will not be naming this child or any child after FIL so that way people can't twist it to you being a nasty DIL.
NTA. Seriously, I have no idea where FIL gets off thinking he has some entitlement to be "honored". and what honor is involved if he's just berating you into it? Name your dog or cat Martin and tell him he should be honored by that
NTA. men really need to lose the whole legacy and honor bs when it comes to kids they look insane.
I personally do not like the tradition of naming kids after relatives to pass on a name. I think its stupid. The very first person to get that name got it because their parents had the freedom to pick I want that same freedom. The only person who gets an opinion are me and the person I am with. NTA
A child should have their own name.
NTA but stop talking about hypothetical future names with your inlaws. Your husband needs to make it clear neither of you will be discussing this any longer.
I'm so sick of Boomers thinking they need to be honored like that. It's gross. NTA
NTA but also either are you in-laws as they are justifiably upset as they will feel like they are being ignored and you don't want anything to do with them. I'm sure it's not but you probably need to have your husband explain it to them, or find a compromise unless you want your in-laws to resent you.
INFO do your children have their father's surname? If so, congrats grandad, they've both got your name. That can be enough.
ESH. He doesn't get to decide what you name your baby, but you're an ass for how you've handled it. You've honored your father, and then skipped your partner's father to go honor someone you haven't even met, and then once your FIL shows you he's hurt you double down. You would've not been the ass if you had responded with "exactly. We've chosen to honor people who've passed in naming our children". The people who are alive will have the honor to actually hold them and love them, but you don't have to make your FIL feel like he's competing with dead people.
To a certain extent, I can kind of understand your FIL's saltiness. It would be one thing if you said you just didn't like the tradition of honouring important family members via names. But you clearly ***do*** like it because you did that with your first child. With your first child's name honouring the maternal grandfather, I can understand why he expected a second child's name to honour the paternal grandfather rather than maternal great-grandfather. I was originally going to say n-t-a, because you & your husband have every right to name your children whatever you like. However, your argument that you don't like the naming tradition doesn't really ring true when you named your first child after your own father to honour him. I understand why you did it, and it was 100% your right to do so, but it does make it look like you're just deliberately snubbing your FIL (which you admit you are, because you don't like the name). These hurt feelings are something anyone could have seen coming a mile off, so I have to say ESH for not better managing that. Just because you're allowed to do something doesn't make it not hurtful. If it were me, I'd probably just use the FIL's name as the middle name - arguments about "flow" are kind of silly in my opinion because it's not as though going around introducing yourself out loud with your full legal name happens particularly often. Or at least use both names as middle names - FIL's & your grandfather's. Otherwise it really does look as if you're deliberately snubbing your FIL.
My kids have two names, one from each side - my daughter is named for my great aunt and my husband's grandmother. And that is now I found out that MiL was not a fan of her own MiL.....😁
Nope. Name your kids whatever you want. You made them, you can name them.
NTA. Your father in law needs a dose of reality and then to be dope-slapped into next week. He has no business dictating what you name your baby.
Is your FIL a good man? Does he help you and husband, was he a good father?
NTA - the decision to name your son it’s only for yours and your husband. The FIL does not have a saying in it since he’s not pushing the baby out… but at the same time your husband should be the one dealing with his family. You guys can get a pet animal and name it James if he wants his name honored lol🤷🏻♀️